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In the Name of God بسم الله

Umar R.a "running Away" From Battle Of Hunain

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(bismillah)

After a bit of reading I came across an article on the matter at hand, just echoing the points the original author made and wanted people on Shiachat to read it.

I have noticed that quite a few Shi'a are trying to accuse Umar ibn al Khattab R.A of "running away" and being a "coward" in battle, I decided to make this thread after a conversation with Al-Hadi on the chatroom on a few questions he raised.

The only "evidence" they will bring forth is the following hadith.

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Narrated Abu Qatada: We set out in the company of Allah's Apostle on the day (of the battle) of Hunain. When we faced the enemy, the Muslims retreated and I saw a pagan throwing himself over a Muslim. I turned around and came upon him from behind and hit him on the shoulder with the sword He (i.e. the pagan) came towards me and seized me so violently that I felt as if it were death itself, but death overtook him and he released me. I followed 'Umar bin Al Khattab and asked (him), "What is wrong with the people(fleeing)?" He replied, "This is the Will of Allah," After the people returned, the Prophet sat and said, "Anyone who has killed an enemy and has a proof of that, will posses his spoils." [sahih al-Bukhari, Book 53, Hadith 370]

Nowhere in the hadith does it state that he ran away or anything even remotely close to it, but by using this narration the Shi'a will eagerly try to challenge the Sunnis on Umar R.A and attempt to make him look like a coward and make it look like he abandoned the Prophet (pbuh) and thus betrayed Islam.

However, this is not the reality of the matter at all- we can see from this SAHIH hadith what really happened-

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ÝóÇäúØóáóÞó ÇáäóøÇÓõ ÅöáóøÇ Ãóäóø ãóÚó ÑóÓõæáö Çááåö ÕóáóøìÇááåõ Úóáóíúåö æóÓóáóøãó ÑóåúØðÇ ãöäó ÇáúãõåóÇÌöÑöíäó æóÇáúÃóäúÕóÇÑö¡ æóÃóåúáö ÈóíúÊöåöÛóíúÑó ßóËöíÑò¡ ËóÈóÊó ãóÚóåõ Õóáóøì Çááåõ Úóáóíúåö æóÓóáóøãó ÃóÈõæ ÈóßúÑò æóÚõãóÑõ¡æóãöäú Ãóåúáö ÈóíúÊöåö¡ Úóáöíõø Èúäõ ÃóÈöí ØóÇáöÈò¡ æóÇáúÚóÈóøÇÓõ Èúäõ ÚóÈúÏö ÇáúãõØóøáöÈö¡æóÇÈúäõåõ ÇáúÝóÖúáõ Èúäõ ÚóÈóøÇÓò¡ æóÃóÈõæ ÓõÝúíóÇäó Èúäõ ÇáúÍóÇÑöËö¡ æóÑóÈöíÚóÉõÈúäõ ÇáúÍóÇÑöËö¡ æóÃóíúãóäõ Èúäõ ÚõÈóíúÏò æóåõæó ÇÈúäõ Ãõãöø Ãóíúãóäó¡ æóÃõÓóÇãóÉõÈúäõ ÒóíúÏò¡ ÞóÇáó: æóÑóÌõáñ ãöäú åóæóÇÒöäó Úóáóì Ìóãóáò áóåõ ÃóÍúãóÑó Ýöí íóÏöåöÑóÇíóÉñ áóåõ ÓóæúÏóÇÁõ Ýöí ÑóÃúÓö ÑõãúÍò Øóæöíáò áóåõ ÃóãóÇãó ÇáäóøÇÓö¡ æóåóæóÇÒöäõÎóáúÝóåõ

Ya'qoub narrated from his Father from Ibn Ishaq from 'Assim ibn 'Umar bin Qatada from 'Abdul-Rahman ibn Jabir from Jabir ibn 'Abdullah:

The people retreated but the Prophet SAWS was accompanied by a group from the Mouhajirun and the Ansar and his Ahlul-Bayt, Those who held their ground and stayed with him were Abu Bakr an 'Umar and from his Ahlul-Bayt 'Ali ibn abi Talib and al-'Abbas bin 'Abdul-Mutallib and his son al-Fadl and Abu Suffiyan bin al-Harith and Raba'iyah bin al-Harith and Ayman bin 'Ubeid and he is ibn Umm-Ayman and Usamah ibn Zaid, he said: and a Man from Hawzan (until the end of the narration). "Musnad Ahmad" volume 23 page 274 Hadith #14731

As stated in the above narration we can see that Umar R.A and Abu Bakr R.A both "held their ground and stayed with him (pbuh) " - and not only did Umar R.A fight back and defend the Prophet (pbuh) while other Muslims retreated but he also received two female captives as recorded in Bukhari :

Narrated Nafi: 'Umar binAl-Khattab said, "O Allah's Apostle! I vowed to observe Itikaf for one dayduring the Pre-lslamic period." The Prophet ordered him to fulfill his vow. 'Umar gained two lady captives from the war prisoners of hunain and he left them in some of the houses at Mecca. When Allah's Apostle freed the captives of hunain without ransom, they came out-walking in the streets. 'Umar said (to his son), "O Abdullah! See what is the matter." 'Abdullah replied, "Allah's Apostle has freed the captives without ransom." He said (to him), "Go and set free those two slave girls." [sahih al-Bukhari Book 53 Hadith 372]

I hope that clears the issue on Umar R.A "running away".

Now lets see who the true coward is from your own Shia sources and biggest scholars.

al-Tusi in his book al-Ghaybah page 203, al-Murtada in his book al-Shafi volume 4 page 149 and al-Mufid in his book al-Fusoul al-Mukhtarah page 395:

áÇ ÓÈÈ ááÛíÈÉ æáÇ ÚáÉ ÊãäÚå ãä ÇáÙåæÑ ÇáÇ ÎæÝ ÇáÇãÇã Úáì äÝÓå ãä ÇáÞÊá

"The only reason behind the ghaybah(occultation) of the Mahdi and the reason that he cannot appear is that he fears that he will be killed."

(wasalam)

Edited by Dagga
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Awaiting for the twelvth

All you did is picked up HCY article written by fasiq Hani and posted it. Its almost without doubt Umar was infamous for running or being coward. This is not even a shia-sunni thing its a fact.

Anyways found this on an old SC thread:

Salaam brother i wonder if you yourself added the red writing in brackets?? Because the hadith is here

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 611: , Narrated Abu Qatada: When it was the day of (the battle ..

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah" Then the people returned to Allah's Apostle (after defeating the enemy). Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever produces a proof that he has killed an infidel, will have the spoils of the killed man." So I got up to look for an evidence to prove that I had killed an infidel, but I could not find anyone to bear witness for me, so I sat down. Then it came to my mind (that I should speak of it) and I mentioned the case to Allah's Apostle. A man from the persons who were sitting with him (i.e. the Prophet), said, "The arms of the deceased one whom he ( i.e. Abu Qatada) has mentioned, are with me, so please compensate him for it (i.e. the spoils)," Abu Bakr said, "No, Allah's Apostle will not give it (i.e. the spoils) to a weak humble person from Quraish and leave one of Allah's Lions who fights on behalf of Allah and His Apostle." Allah's Apostle then got up and gave that (spoils) to me, and I bought with it, a garden which was the first property I got after embracing Islam.

As brother dagga said there is NO mention of umar ra fleeing!!

Its there plain and simple!

Edited by Blacknight
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There are sources that it is written history that Umar ran out of the field of battle. I guess people above have named a sufficient amount.

Your point on the Mahdi (God hasten his coming) is just disgusting though. If that Hadith says that is the only reason he remains in Ghaybat then it is false, but it is the original reason he went to it. The Abbasids imprisoned his father (as) , his grand father (as) , and his great grandfather (as) all in wait for his birth, so they could put an end to him. However it's not the only reason he stays in Ghaybat, the Abbasids are dead, long gone, there is no more fear of being killed by them. On the other hand, there are other reasons why his Ghaybat continues, the fact that if he re appears now, his so called "followers" would by killed by his own sword. Some scholars say that they asked him this if and when they saw him in dreams, and says to them that he has not found his loyal 313, the men that will listen to him unquestionably.

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Another hatred thread. Seriously Dagga don't you have something better to do. Stop it please, you are causing division and hatred among fellow brothers and sisters, like we don't have enough of it already.

Well for his ignorance and hate, he was banned

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Awaiting for the twelvth

All you did is picked up HCY article written by fasiq Hani and posted it. Its almost without doubt Umar was infamous for running or being coward. This is not even a shia-sunni thing its a fact.

Anyways found this on an old SC thread:

Salaam brother i wonder if you yourself added the red writing in brackets?? Because the hadith is here

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 611: , Narrated Abu Qatada: When it was the day of (the battle ..

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah" Then the people returned to Allah's Apostle (after defeating the enemy). Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever produces a proof that he has killed an infidel, will have the spoils of the killed man." So I got up to look for an evidence to prove that I had killed an infidel, but I could not find anyone to bear witness for me, so I sat down. Then it came to my mind (that I should speak of it) and I mentioned the case to Allah's Apostle. A man from the persons who were sitting with him (i.e. the Prophet), said, "The arms of the deceased one whom he ( i.e. Abu Qatada) has mentioned, are with me, so please compensate him for it (i.e. the spoils)," Abu Bakr said, "No, Allah's Apostle will not give it (i.e. the spoils) to a weak humble person from Quraish and leave one of Allah's Lions who fights on behalf of Allah and His Apostle." Allah's Apostle then got up and gave that (spoils) to me, and I bought with it, a garden which was the first property I got after embracing Islam.

As brother dagga said there is NO mention of umar ra fleeing!!

Its there plain and simple!

The bit in bold. I will explain it for you:

The Muslims apart from a few, started legging it away. So Abu Qatada started legging it aswell. Now, while he was legging it, he met Mr Khattab who was amongst the people (who were legging it). So he asks him, what is wrong with the people (who are legging it)?. He replies it is Allahs will. The the people (who were legging it) returned to the Holy Prophet SAWW.

So you see the people who were being referred to as 'the people' are the people who were running away. Mr Khattab was part of 'the people', therefore it is safe to say he was running away as is his usual style.

Hope that Helps!!

Edited by gajarkahalva
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I hope he hasnt got banned thats just weak if people on here can insult sahaba ra all he did was quote from altusi he never insulted imam mahdi as he was just giving you lile for like he only quoted ONE and there are people on here quoting made up ones thats sad!!

It shows the true reality of SC!!

How unfortunate!!

Gajarkahalva

( eeyuk carrot cake) sos but i hate carrot cakes!

The bit in bold. I will explain it for you:

The Muslims apart from a few, started legging it away. So Abu Qatada started legging it aswell. Now, while he was legging it, he met Mr Khattab who was amongst the people (who were legging it). So he asks him, what is wrong with the people (who are legging it)?. He replies it is Allahs will. The the people (who were legging it) returned to the Holy Prophet SAWW.

Brother

Where does it say umar ra legged it too??

Its simple he was amongst the people and the rest is your hatred on him twisting it to your thinking lols

Honestly!!

See how even you are adding brackets with your own interpretation to make it look that way!

So you see the people who were being referred to as 'the people' are the people who were running away. Mr Khattab was part of 'the people', therefore it is safe to say he was running away as is his usual style.

Hope that Helps!!

Brother

Nop it doesnt help it just gets more confusing because a man who ruled over 2.2 million square miles of land and that era EVERY MUSLIM as well as non muslim claim it is golden era somehow he ran it doesnt make sense

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I hope he hasnt got banned thats just weak if people on here can insult sahaba ra all he did was quote from altusi he never insulted imam mahdi as he was just giving you lile for like he only quoted ONE and there are people on here quoting made up ones thats sad!!

It shows the true reality of SC!!

How unfortunate!!

Gajarkahalva

( eeyuk carrot cake) sos but i hate carrot cakes!

The bit in bold. I will explain it for you:

The Muslims apart from a few, started legging it away. So Abu Qatada started legging it aswell. Now, while he was legging it, he met Mr Khattab who was amongst the people (who were legging it). So he asks him, what is wrong with the people (who are legging it)?. He replies it is Allahs will. The the people (who were legging it) returned to the Holy Prophet SAWW.

Brother

Where does it say umar ra legged it too??

Its simple he was amongst the people and the rest is your hatred on him twisting it to your thinking lols

Honestly!!

See how even you are adding brackets with your own interpretation to make it look that way!

So you see the people who were being referred to as 'the people' are the people who were running away. Mr Khattab was part of 'the people', therefore it is safe to say he was running away as is his usual style.

Hope that Helps!!

Brother

Nop it doesnt help it just gets more confusing because a man who ruled over 2.2 million square miles of land and that era EVERY MUSLIM as well as non muslim claim it is golden era somehow he ran it doesnt make sense

Er, "The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah"

It is clear that umar was legging it away too.

Umar ran so fast he would have left usain bolt in the dust...

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Er, "The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah"

It is clear that umar was legging it away too.

Umar ran so fast he would have left usain bolt in the dust...

He was running home to see Aflah

msg-81979-0-00466000-1337955288.jpg

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Yoda 1

Er, "The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah"

It is clear that umar was legging it away too.

Umar ran so fast he would have left usain bolt in the dust...

Salam brother

Lol its like a broken record it say I MET HIM AMONGST PEOPLE and rest is your yoda fantasy!!

Yep he ruled so vast that i can see hatred in you pur jealousy because there has NEVER been a shia ruler who has or can achieve what he did

MASHALLAH

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I hope he hasnt got banned thats just weak if people on here can insult sahaba ra all he did was quote from altusi he never insulted imam mahdi as he was just giving you lile for like he only quoted ONE and there are people on here quoting made up ones thats sad!!

It shows the true reality of SC!!

How unfortunate!!

Gajarkahalva

( eeyuk carrot cake) sos but i hate carrot cakes!

The bit in bold. I will explain it for you:

The Muslims apart from a few, started legging it away. So Abu Qatada started legging it aswell. Now, while he was legging it, he met Mr Khattab who was amongst the people (who were legging it). So he asks him, what is wrong with the people (who are legging it)?. He replies it is Allahs will. The the people (who were legging it) returned to the Holy Prophet SAWW.

Brother

Where does it say umar ra legged it too??

Its simple he was amongst the people and the rest is your hatred on him twisting it to your thinking lols

Honestly!!

See how even you are adding brackets with your own interpretation to make it look that way!

So you see the people who were being referred to as 'the people' are the people who were running away. Mr Khattab was part of 'the people', therefore it is safe to say he was running away as is his usual style.

Hope that Helps!!

Brother

Nop it doesnt help it just gets more confusing because a man who ruled over 2.2 million square miles of land and that era EVERY MUSLIM as well as non muslim claim it is golden era somehow he ran it doesnt make sense

I think its safe to say you need English comprehension lessons. The whole paragraph was my own and the brackets were also my own. I didn't pick it out of sahih-al-whatever.

It's so simple it's unreal.

Qatada bloke was running away after he saw others running away. So he joined the others in running away yeah. Get this bit? Now Mr Khattab was part of the people that were running away as he met him whilst running away. Get it? So the geezer Qatada asks Mr Khattab, why are the group of people he is in running away. He then gives his lame response.

Qatada didnt say he stopped to ask Khattab his question. They were running together according to the wording.

You still say that he was not running away which is just being willfully ignorant and blind when the truth is hitting you in the face like a wet fish. Tish Tish Tish. So the question is why did Khattab not ask Qatada why HE was running away? Why did he not tell him to stop? (these are rhetorical questions by the way). We know why, its because he was doing his usual thing in battles.

Man, it's like talking to a kid. You sunnis can be so stubborn!

Edited by gajarkahalva
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Yoda 1

Er, "The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah"

It is clear that umar was legging it away too.

Umar ran so fast he would have left usain bolt in the dust...

Salam brother

Lol its like a broken record it say I MET HIM AMONGST PEOPLE and rest is your yoda fantasy!!

Yep he ruled so vast that i can see hatred in you pur jealousy because there has NEVER been a shia ruler who has or can achieve what he did

MASHALLAH

My Goodness you are cerebally challenged

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Aslamalaykum,

@Dagga

I know you will be reading this...

I've asked some questions on HCY before, the narration can be interpreted both ways that Umar was amongst those who were fleeing or under the commotion of people retreating, he met the narrator.

To give sunnis the benefit of the doubt let's just say he was not fleeing, my main concern is the words of Umar in the narration "This is the Will of Allah,"

1. What was the will of Allah swt the fleeing away or the defeat?

If it was fleeing then how can this be will of Allah, when the Allah has stated clearly before this battle that those who flee from battlefields are destined for hell.

If the defeat was the will of Allah, this is problematic too, as the will of Almighty is for the muslims to be victorious all the time over the enemies.

The 3rd option for you lot could be is that Allah swt wanted them to learn the lesson of defeat, regroup and turn the defeat into victory, so the orignal plan of Allah swt was muslims to be defeated to learn from their lesson, regroup, then be victorious but this sounds ba'da to me which the sunnis reject this concept.

Any explainations from anyone?

Also for insulting our Imam a.s, this hadith I'm going to show the bravery and how strong Umar was. I'm not gonna be unfair and show you a weak hadith, this is from Sahih Bukhari and this is not in any battlefield, this is in a dream by the way.

Narrated Salim's father:

about the Prophet's dream in which he has seen Abu Bakr and 'Umar: The Prophet said, "I saw (in a dream) that the people had gathered. Then Abu Bakr stood up and pulled out one or two buckets full of water (from a well) and there was weakness in his pulling -- may Allah forgive him. Then Ibn Al-Khattab stood up, and the bucket turned into a very large one and I have never seen any strong man among the people doing such a hard job. He pulled out so much water that the people (drank to their satisfaction) and watered their camels to their fill, (and then after quenching their thirst) they sat beside the water."

Buckets of water! do I need to comment anymore?

Edited by muslimunity1
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