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UmmAhmad

I Am Not Shia But...

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UmmAhmad, you sound 100% like my mother right now. And I agree with mostly everything you said. But, there is a difference between respecting someone else's philosophy and having a strong faith in one's own. You're right that we should call ourselves Muslims, but as Muslims we should advocate for justice, for haq. we go around complaining about our own rights being sqandered, but what of the rights of the Imams? what of the rights of Bibi Fatima (as)? who will remember the injustices that happen to them?

Islam by it's very essense is justice. it is the living breathing document of true justice. And, if at the very core of someone's interpretation is injustice, then there is something wrong.

So, you are 100% right that we should respect our BROTHERS and SISTERS of Islam. but, we should not forget what justice is, and we should never stop advocating for it. Because once we do, we will not cease to be Muslims, but we will cease being good muslims.

Edited by Faatima_ki_kaneez

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There is a lot of useless talk in sectarian Sunni-Shi`a discussion; much of it does not result in good and only brings out the worst in people. The most important thing is to have good akhlaq when dealing with people. There's no reason to get emotional or even violent on religious Sunni-Shi`a disagreements, to the point where we misrepresent the sect we belong to and commit sins. How we deal with each other is half the deen.

Anyway, while "taking the best of both worlds" sounds sweet and ideal, it's not a sustainable approach. I say this because I was once in the same boat as you. It eventually comes down to what sources you consider authoritative. All Muslims are united on the Prophet, but whose word do we take on interpreting his religion? If there's a fiqh disagreement between Sunnis-Shi`as, which opinion would you take and why? What's the best way to approach the Qur'an and Sunna? Are the Imams the protectors of the Qur'an and Prophet's Sunna? If so, then the religion should be taken from them.

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Salaam

I judge people all the time based on what I subjectively think is right in islam, but (since only God is truly objective) I keep if for myself. Yes there are a 1000 roads to Rome but as muslims we should find the shortest one. Sis if you think Ali should have been the first caliph and you know of certain muslims who also believe this then please take time to study this in depth. You're in luck since truth as been made clear from falsehood :)

Baqarah 256:

"There shall be no compulsion in religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong."

Ramadan Moubarak :)

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I don't disagree, but, how many Shia do you know have the akhlaaq that she does by not having blind hatred towards others? The Imams taught not to have blind hatred and treat others as equals in humanity. Unfortunately too many of us are quick to jump into the trap of fitna, something the Imams (as) never preached. At the same token, i see the same with non-Muslims. It seems 'Islam' is practised more by non-muslims in non-Muslim countries more than Muslims in 'Islamic' countries.

Completely agree with you here. The person who is preaching should have better akhlak than the one he/she is preaching to. I've also noticed that people who converted to Islam do take the religion seriously. That doesn't mean all born Muslims are sinner who don't care about Islam.

The one thing I agree with Macisaac is that we cannot wait until we are perfect (akhlak or Iman) before telling someone about the Ahl al Bayt. You will never ever be perfect. So, don't hide what you know about them. You are just doing disservice to their cause by hiding the truth.

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Ahhhhh UmmAhmad how much you remind me of myself ^_^ and how naive I used to be...

You see, Sunnis and Shias are like the sky and the earth. You can either stick to the ground or you can stay in the sky, and anyone who claims to be on the earth and the sky at the same time is doing nothing but fooling oneself.

Let me make it simple. If you believe that there was a line of Imams (as) starting from Imam Ali (as) as the first of those twelve, then you are a Shia whether you like it or not. If you don't believe so, and believe in a dandy fairytale of LaLaland where all sahaba were good and loved each other so much that they had to wage wars against each other to declare their love :rolleyes: , then you're a Sunni whether you like it or not. It's_that_plain_simple.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm all for tolerance and respect as per the example of our Imams (as) , but I DO NOT GIVE TWO SHIZZ about religious unity with people who love the oppressors of Ahlul Bayt (as) . However, I do believe that political unity and prosperity between these two sects is very much possible, and I'm all for that.

Sorry if I sounded blunt. I don't think there was a way to sugarcoat what I said, so my apologies if I offended you, but I needed to get the truth out there.

Edited by HellHound

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I suppose I consider myself Shia, but that has never stopped me from having Sunni friends, praying alongside Sunnis, asking looking up what Sunni scholars have said on various issues, or praying 5 times a day (not 3).

I'm of course no scholar, but if we try to take the example of Imam Ali, we will see that he could have easily fought Abu Bakr to take over the caliphate if he wanted to. But he did not. He knew that the Islamic state would have crumbled in its infancy if it was forced to endure a divisive issue such as that. So, why is it today that we continue to fight each other over the subtle differences between us when we infact have so much in common. Islam isn't in its infancy any more, but we continue to be divided. There are those, as evidenced by this very thread, who refer to our Muslim brothers as Kafir, and then complain when they do they same to us.

Both Sunnis and Shias are so indoctrinated from the time we are little, that we see anyone who questions anything we believe as deviants or Kafirs. Why is that? Are we so insecure about our beliefs that we can't have anyone hold a microscope to it for fear they might uncover something?

So, while I consider myself Shia, I do honestly believe that the truth lies somewhere inbetween Sunniism and Shiaism. Over the years, both sides have been so caught up with being either Sunni or Shia, that's we've forgotten how to be one Muslim ummah.

That is all.

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"Well, Shia's tend to criticize practicing Muslims who follow the Qur'an and Sunnah, but Shia's are not even worthy of being considered Muslims"

Sunnis need to learn the meaning of hypocrisy.

Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard Muhammad say "There will be twelve Muslim rulers." He then said a sentence which I did not hear. My father said "All of them (those rulers) will be from Quraish."

Book 89:329

Sahih Muslim:

Narrated Jabir bin Samura: I heard Muhammad say "The (Islamic) religion will continue until the Hour (day of resurrection), having twelve Caliphs for you, all of them will be from Quraysh."

Book 20:4477-4483

And there are more than 20 similar narrations

Sunan al-Tirmidhi:

The Prophet said: "There will be after me twelve rulers, all of them from Quraysh."

Hadith 2149 (numbering of al-Alamiyyah)

Sunan Abu Dawood:

The Prophet said: "This religion remains standing until there are twelve vicegerents over you, all of them agreeable to the nation, all of them from Quraysh."

Book 36:4266

A Jewish man named Na'thal, went to the Prophet and among the questions he asked who would succeed him. The Prophet said, specifying them, "After me, 'Ali ibn Abi Talib and then my two sons, Hasan and Husayn and after Husayn, nine Imams will follow from his children." "The Jewish man said, 'Name them.' "The Prophet said, "When Husayn leaves this world, his son, 'Ali, and after him, his child Muhammad and after Muhammad, his son Ja'far and after Ja'far, his son Musa and after Musa, his son 'Ali and after 'Ali, Muhammad. After Muhammad, his child, 'Ali and after 'Ali, Hasan and after Hasan, his child Muhammad al-Mahdi. These are the twelve Imams."

Yanabi' al-Muwadat, p. 431

"This religion shall always be upright till there are twelve from Quraish. When they are no more, the earth will be destroyed (swallowed) with all its inhabitants"

Kanz al-Ummaal, vol 12, pg 34, Tr. No. 3386

- Kash al-Astaar, part 1, pg 99 narrating from al-Ebaanah

- E'laam al-Waraa pg 384

- Muqtazab al-Asar, pg 3-4

- Manaaqeb of ibn Shar Aashob, vol 1, pg 290

- Behaar al-Anwaar vol 36, pg 267, Chap 41, Tr. No. 87

- Al-Insaaf, pg 361

"Surely this religion will always overcome its opponents and no enemy or deserter can ever harm it till there are twelve caliphs from my nation in it. All of them will be from Quraish"

Musnad-e-Ahmad, vol 5, pg 87

Nowehere in Sunnism are there 12 Muslim rulers, all of them from Quraysh.

The 'Four Rightly Guided' Rashidun Caliphs were four, there were more than 30 Ummayad Caliphs, Nearly 40 Abbasid Caliphs, and many Sunni Caliphs are not even from Quraysh!

Surah Al-Ahzaab, Ayah 33:

“Verily, Allah has decreed to purify you, O' Ahlul Bayt, and sanctify you in a perfect way”

Surah As-Sajda, Ayah 24-25:

{24} "And amongst them We appointed imams to guide [the people] by Our command, when they had been patient and had conviction in Our signs."

{25} "Indeed your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that about which they used to differ."

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Baqarah 256:

"There shall be no compulsion in religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong."

Ramadan Moubarak :)

If you know farsi, please read Ahmad Kasravi books regarding shia (Twelver Shia Islam in Iran) history. if not, please study History of Safavid dynasty before quoting this verse.

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I'm not here to say this person is Muslim and this person isn't etc, just to make it clear, if Shias call Sunnis 'non-believers/ kuffar/ not Muslim' it is because Sunnis don't believe in Imamate- and trust me I've heard it from quite a few, on the other hand, when Sunnis call Shias 'non-believers/ kuffar/ not Muslim' they say this is due to Shirk.

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I'm not here to say this person is Muslim and this person isn't etc, just to make it clear, if Shias call Sunnis 'non-believers/ kuffar/ not Muslim' it is because Sunnis don't believe in Imamate- and trust me I've heard it from quite a few, on the other hand, when Sunnis call Shias 'non-believers/ kuffar/ not Muslim' they say this is due to Shirk.

What shirk are you talking about? Can you elaborate a little bit?

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well I am an extremist shia, and for me who ever does not follow Ali ibn abi talib after Muhammed(s) is kafir for me.

so I am not surprised if some sunni thinks shia of Ali are not muslims, coz for me and many others sunnis are not muslims.

so chill its all about the projection we have in our mind about others.

try to find out truth and I am sure if god willing some day u will reach the truth of ISLAM.

Do you Zibha your own meat. Do you never eat out at a 'muslim' restaurant. It is not permitted for you to eat the meat slaughtered by a Kaffir.

So extremist shia less of the histronics and posturing.

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What shirk are you talking about? Can you elaborate a little bit?

I think he's talking about the small group of Shias that worship Imam Ali.

Or the Shias that say "Ya Ali," as if Imam Ali could help them.

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Ascribing partners to Allah/ giving them attributes of Allah, what other shirk is there?

From where have you assumed that Shia's give any one attributes of Allah. from one point anybody can be merciful, rightful, Alim, guardian, even creator of some art but these attributes does not make them Allah naozubillah. If you are referring to these then you should grow up a little bit and use your mind, every body posses some good qualities.

There will not be even a single person in the world which Allah does not bless with one of his quality. If you are not referring to this thing then:

Enlighten us with any references from present marjae, not from some random mullah or social practice thing.

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Thankyou sis :) and congrates....

So, according to your ideology... if someone believes that Hezrat Ali to be the 1st caliph, then said person is not a kafir?

You aren't doing her a favor by lying to her about this. You yourself said that we'll all be asked who our Imam was, and if we don't have an answer to that... I'm not saying ram it down her throat or speak in an unkind manner, but at the same time be honest about it, this isn't an optional affair in regards to one's salvation.

I've read in some 'basic' shia books that when asked in the grave about one's imam, the answer should be Hezrat Ali. Others say it's Hezrat Mehdi.

Which one is it?

its same in our fiqah, u deny one imam and u denied all imamain.

Deny means to know the true imams of Allah SWT in their hearts but still rejects that in their heart and in open.

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inshaAllah you will be 1 soon

My opinion is one that many on here will disagree with, but I think we should focus on being Muslim before we focus on being Shia or Sunni. I also believe that true Islam, as it was intended to be, lies somewhere inbetween modern day Shiaism and Suniism.

When non-Muslims ask me if I'm Shia or Sunni, I say I'm Muslim.

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I also believe that true Islam, as it was intended to be, lies somewhere inbetween modern day Shiaism and Suniism.

I guess that would be Sufi's, which lie inbetween.

Edited by power

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Assalam o alaikum

SubhaanAllah sister for this beautiful thread! I have to say that i agree with u a 100%! I am from a suuni family who married a shia. Alhumdulillah my husband is the best husband in the world. And i have been blessed to learn about all the imam(as) and not just Ali(as)  Hasan (as) and Husayn(as). And if i think about it i realize that being a amuslim, my parents thought me to love the prophet (saww) and his family. Their were no disticntions that you have to love the wives and the father is laws but not the daugter and grandsons of RasoolAllah (saww). I was given knowledge of the sahaba (ra) and the ahlulbayt(as). Before i married my husband, i started reading books and hadith of shia scholars. I too like the sister that started this thread belaive that imam ali (as) should have succeeded the prophet(saww) but at the same time i dont hate the caliphs(ra) and i dont send la'an on them. My biggest reason being that the imams(as) didnt do that( at least from the books i have read and what my limited knowledge is) Also sunni scholars wrote their books anoshia scholars wrote theirs. Everyone will insist theirs are the most authentic and correct. Suunis will quote from shia books to prove themselves and shias will quote from suunisources to prove their point. BUT the ONLY point is this.. I listened to majlis by hasnain rajabali and one thing he said stuck by me and i live life according to this principle now.. If you have to degrade someone else by proving you are right, the you have already let them get ahead of you. U dont have to prove that someone else is wrong, kafir, mushrik to prove that youre right, better muslim, better momin! If you think youre right, be satisfied with it and continue! Dont insult others to prove that youre following the right path! I always tell my husband that i pray that imam mehdi(as) comes back during my lifetime because i have so much to learn from him so many questions that i have no answers for! I have one request to all muslimeen of this world. Follow the example of your prophet! As for people who say that we have to curse someone who made bibi Fatima (as) cry then let me give you the example of the woman who threw trash and stones at the prophet(saww). Does anyone curse her? Did the prophet curse her? Did imam ali(as) curse her? did the Bibi(as) curse her? Let me give u an example of the woman who ate the prophet's (saww) uncle's heart! Did the prophet(saw) curse her? He just asked her politely with respect to not come in front of him asthat brings back the painful memory! Imam ali(as) was denied what was his but did he curse hazrat abu bakar? Did he curse hazrat omar or hazrat usman? Instead he silently stayed on as advisory. Did he ever call them kaafirs? Because he knew that any injustice sdone to him will be judged and avenged by Allah. Yet we who call ourselves the true followers of sunna or ahlul bayt (as) constantly judge, curse, send la'ans on each other and call each other kafir! KAFIR? Astaghfirullah, i am scared to even call a person of another religion a kaafir only because that could be the one thing that displeased my Allah and the Rasool (saww) That my Rasool would deny me his intersession in the hereafter only because i called someone kaafir and what if he wasnt a kaafir in Allah's eyes? And here we all sit and call kaafirs people who recite the same kalima! We dont realize what repercussions of our hatred will be! We are using the caliphs and the imams for our own personal issues that is causing a rift in the muslim ummah! Please its my humble humble request.. Be one! Agree to disagree.. Have positive intrafaith dialogue.. Love each other.. Even if some of you cannot love the imams and some of you cannot love the khalifas. 

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My opinion is one that many on here will disagree with, but I think we should focus on being Muslim before we focus on being Shia or Sunni. I also believe that true Islam, as it was intended to be, lies somewhere inbetween modern day Shiaism and Suniism.

When non-Muslims ask me if I'm Shia or Sunni, I say I'm Muslim.

That statement, apart from the ignorance in the Mut'ah thread, shows you have no knowledge of this subject :)

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My opinion is one that many on here will disagree with, but I think we should focus on being Muslim before we focus on being Shia or Sunni. I also believe that true Islam, as it was intended to be, lies somewhere inbetween modern day Shiaism and Suniism.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Go ahead and explain how Islam lies somewhere in-between Shiasm and Sunniism.

Sunniism is completely contradictory to many parts of the Quran and Sunnah, while Shiasm is confirmed by it. See: http://www.shiachat....50#entry2456373

Edited by AliHussainFaraji

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If you have to degrade someone else by proving you are right, the you have already let them get ahead of you. U dont have to prove that someone else is wrong, kafir, mushrik to prove that youre right, better muslim, better momin! If you think youre right, be satisfied with it and continue! Dont insult others to prove that youre following the right path! I always tell my husband that i pray that imam mehdi(as) comes back during my lifetime because i have so much to learn from him so many questions that i have no answers for! I have one request to all muslimeen of this world. Follow the example of your prophet! As for people who say that we have to curse someone who made bibi Fatima (as) cry then let me give you the example of the woman who threw trash and stones at the prophet(saww). Does anyone curse her? Did the prophet curse her? Did imam ali(as) curse her? did the Bibi(as) curse her? Let me give u an example of the woman who ate the prophet's (saww) uncle's heart! Did the prophet(saw) curse her? He just asked her politely with respect to not come in front of him asthat brings back the painful memory! Imam ali(as) was denied what was his but did he curse hazrat abu bakar? Did he curse hazrat omar or hazrat usman? Instead he silently stayed on as advisory. Did he ever call them kaafirs? Because he knew that any injustice sdone to him will be judged and avenged by Allah. Yet we who call ourselves the true followers of sunna or ahlul bayt (as) constantly judge, curse, send la'ans on each other and call each other kafir! KAFIR? Astaghfirullah, i am scared to even call a person of another religion a kaafir only because that could be the one thing that displeased my Allah and the Rasool (saww) That my Rasool would deny me his intersession in the hereafter only because i called someone kaafir and what if he wasnt a kaafir in Allah's eyes? And here we all sit and call kaafirs people who recite the same kalima! We dont realize what repercussions of our hatred will be! We are using the caliphs and the imams for our own personal issues that is causing a rift in the muslim ummah! Please its my humble humble request.. Be one! Agree to disagree.. Have positive intrafaith dialogue.. Love each other.. Even if some of you cannot love the imams and some of you cannot love the khalifas.

Very well put, sister.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Go ahead and explain how Islam lies somewhere in-between Shiasm and Sunniism.

Sunniism is completely contradictory to many parts of the Quran and Sunnah, while Shiasm is confirmed by it. See: http://www.shiachat....50#entry2456373

Well, do you think we're supposed to pray 3 times a day or 5?

Do you think we're supposed to beat ourselves with our hands, or even with knives, when we want to mourn someone?

Do you think we're supposed to draw pictures of Imams and the Prophet? Like Christians do with Hazrat Isa?

First thing we do when we enter the masjid is what? Do we go to the front with the alams and kiss them, like Christians do when they enter the church?

You see, you have your beliefs that you hold so true to your heart, that you can't fathom anything else possibly being true. You have your sources that completely refute anything the Sunnis have. You even have Sunni sources that refute the Sunnis, and you make some compelling arguments.

But, what you forget is that there is a Sunni out there that is in the same position has you. Has his beliefs that he maintains can't be anything than the absolute truth, and he's able to use both Shia and Sunni sources to back up his position and refute yours, and make some really compelling arguments.

Put both of you in a room, and neither will come out having changed their minds on anything, because both are too stubborn to even entertain the idea that they may be wrong.

That's what I'm trying to get at here. In the end, the only thing that I hold to be 100% not up for debate is the Qu'ran. After that, I listen to both sides on issues and I try and figure out which makes more sense. I know that's pretty much blasphemy to most people on this site, but I'm a better Muslim in person than I probably come across as on this site.

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Very well put, sister.

Well, do you think we're supposed to pray 3 times a day or 5?

Do you think we're supposed to beat ourselves with our hands, or even with knives, when we want to mourn someone?

Do you think we're supposed to draw pictures of Imams and the Prophet? Like Christians do with Hazrat Isa?

First thing we do when we enter the masjid is what? Do we go to the front with the alams and kiss them, like Christians do when they enter the church?

You see, you have your beliefs that you hold so true to your heart, that you can't fathom anything else possibly being true. You have your sources that completely refute anything the Sunnis have. You even have Sunni sources that refute the Sunnis, and you make some compelling arguments.

But, what you forget is that there is a Sunni out there that is in the same position has you. Has his beliefs that he maintains can't be anything than the absolute truth, and he's able to use both Shia and Sunni sources to back up his position and refute yours, and make some really compelling arguments.

Put both of you in a room, and neither will come out having changed their minds on anything, because both are too stubborn to even entertain the idea that they may be wrong.

That's what I'm trying to get at here. In the end, the only thing that I hold to be 100% not up for debate is the Qu'ran. After that, I listen to both sides on issues and I try and figure out which makes more sense. I know that's pretty much blasphemy to most people on this site, but I'm a better Muslim in person than I probably come across as on this site.

Really all I can say is just God guide you..

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In my opinion, I believe that Ali should have been the first Khalifa. But I do not like how shia's and sunni's are divided mostly because of this. I choose not to label myself as shia or sunni because it only causes division, strife and slander. If we as Muslim could only put aside our differences, and be united, imagine the good things that we could do for this world?

Salam,

If you beleive Ali is the first successor for Prophet Muhammed then you are a Shia and if you are really doing so then for sure who will go to heaven. If you don't beleive that and beleive in those 3 kafirs (Allah's curse on them) then you will go to hell. You also have to beleive that Imamat continues today and the current Imam in occlution is the great grand son of Imam Tayeb, the 21st Imam who went into occlution who is from the lineage of Ali and prophet.

Vassalam,

Mansur

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...If you beleive Ali is the first successor for Prophet Muhammed then you are a Shia and if you are really doing so then for sure who will go to heaven. If you don't beleive that and beleive in those 3 kafirs (Allah's curse on them) then you will go to hell. You also have to beleive that Imamat continues today...

You appear so absolutely sure about things it sounds like you've just come from a meeting with God or the Prophet or Imam Ali!

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My opinion is one that many on here will disagree with, but I think we should focus on being Muslim before we focus on being Shia or Sunni. I also believe that true Islam, as it was intended to be, lies somewhere inbetween modern day Shiaism and Suniism.

When non-Muslims ask me if I'm Shia or Sunni, I say I'm Muslim.

If you do a little research, you will see all the good things you see in with the sunnis, that you don't see with the shi'a, are actually, originally part of shi'a islam.

All the bad things you see in shi'a islam, have nothing to do with it, and you can see how weak or non-existant the proofs for them are.

I think apart for your hatred of mut'a, there is nothing good that you see with the sunnis, that isn't part of the teachings of the Imams Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. - but then sunnis invented misyar, which if you google peoples experience of it, is essentially poor sunni families selling their daughters into sex slavery with a rich man.

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Well, do you think we're supposed to pray 3 times a day or 5?

5, and both Shia and Sunni pray 5 times so I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Do you think we're supposed to beat ourselves with our hands, or even with knives, when we want to mourn someone?

Supposed to and want to are two different things. There's nothing that says doing so is wajib in Shia Islam, but there's nothing wrong with doing so.

Do you think we're supposed to draw pictures of Imams and the Prophet? Like Christians do with Hazrat Isa?

Nope.

First thing we do when we enter the masjid is what? Do we go to the front with the alams and kiss them, like Christians do when they enter the church?

What?

You see, you have your beliefs that you hold so true to your heart, that you can't fathom anything else possibly being true. You have your sources that completely refute anything the Sunnis have. You even have Sunni sources that refute the Sunnis, and you make some compelling arguments.

But, what you forget is that there is a Sunni out there that is in the same position has you. Has his beliefs that he maintains can't be anything than the absolute truth, and he's able to use both Shia and Sunni sources to back up his position and refute yours, and make some really compelling arguments.

Put both of you in a room, and neither will come out having changed their minds on anything, because both are too stubborn to even entertain the idea that they may be wrong.

That's what I'm trying to get at here. In the end, the only thing that I hold to be 100% not up for debate is the Qu'ran. After that, I listen to both sides on issues and I try and figure out which makes more sense. I know that's pretty much blasphemy to most people on this site, but I'm a better Muslim in person than I probably come across as on this site.

You see, you assume things about people you know nothing about. I posted those things that confirm Shiasm and disprove Sunni'ism because I came across them on my search for the truth, not because I was looking for a way to prove Shiasm and disprove Sunni'ism. In fact, when I was younger I was thinking about becoming Sunni because of the lies I had bought into from them without doing any research into whether or not they were true and because of the practices I saw from some ignorant Shia.

If you put me and a Sunni both in a room and I come out without a changed opinion, it's because the Sunni had no argument, not because I refuse to listen to anything. If the Sunni leaves that same room without changing his mind, it's because he chooses to deny factual truths and prefers ignorance.

The fact is that Twelver Shia Islam is completely confirmed by the Quran and Sunnah, while Sunni'ism, Sufi'ism, etc. is contradicted by it. The truth is right in front of you.

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^ Actually i am of the believe, Present day Shia Islam is closest to Sirat ul Mustaqeem. Its not perfect, but it is the closest to truth. Over centuries, Shias have evolved weird ideologies, practices etc so we have lost a lot of true essence of shia islam. If Allah(swt) exists, Quran is true, Prophets came then shia islam makes sense, if not then nothing else makes sense. Through AhlulBayt (as) we can understand Allah (swt) (which itself is a really deep topic).

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