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Did Imam Ali A.s Not Know The Hukum For Mazi?

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Everyone knows this Thousand doors Hadees,if His knowledge grew that does n't mean,He did n't have any before,in fact more than any human,and in every matter of deen.If He was not even well aware with religious problems,how was He infallible? If you don't know the answers,how will you be saved from errors?

As for ones from Kafi,our ulema are more well versed to get through these Ahadees,and they believe them to be knowledgeable by birth.Have you ever read how Imam Taqi(as) defeated most eminent scholars of His time at the age of six? Which book He was taking help from? But such things you will never see because the Ayat you quoted is most fit on you.You know who was habitual of quoting Ayaat on right ones? Yes the one on the throne of syria who quoted the Ayat wrongfully on Syeda Zainab(as),and She replied don't exploit the meaning of Quran for your means.Same is my answer for you.And whenever you don't find answers you start calling it conjectures.Old habit!though this conjecture thing is hall mark of your party.And its nice to see you admit that you are muqassir,and you invent concepts.

One can only open thousand gates more from each of the thousand chapters if the Person had knowledge before more than human comprehension.Otherwise how could anyone open thousand doors from each of the thousand doors,do you think its a child's task? Then stop making conjectures please.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra

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As for ones from Kafi,our ulema are more well versed to get through these Ahadees,and they believe them to be knowledgeable by birth.Have you ever read how Imam Taqi(as) defeated most eminent scholars of His time at the age of six? Which book He was taking help from? But such things you will never see because the Ayat you quoted is most fit on you.You know who was habitual of quoting Ayaat on right ones? Yes the one on the throne of syria who quoted the Ayat wrongfully on Syeda Zainab(as),and She replied don't exploit the meaning of Quran for your means.Same is my answer for you.And whenever you don't find answers you start calling it conjectures.Old habit!though this conjecture thing is hall mark of your party.And its nice to see you admit that you are muqassir,and you invent concepts.

I can't really be bothered to continue this discussion, because we will just never agree.

But just to point out, Imam al-Jawad (a) was an Imam, there is no doubt he must have been a child prodigy, so there is no reason that by the time of the debate, he hadn't read through the books as his grand father Imam al-Sadiq (a) did when he was small.

But aside from that, it could have just been a miracle, or as pointed out by darul islam and murtada, at the death of the previous Imam, the knowledge gets passed on, his father (a) was dead at the time of the debate, making al-Jawad (a) the Imam of his time.

Edited by Ali_Hussain

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I can't really be bothered to continue this discussion, because we will just never agree.

But just to point out, Imam al-Jawad (a) was an Imam, there is no doubt he must have been a child prodigy, so there is no reason that by the time of the debate, he hadn't read through the books as his grand father Imam al-Sadiq (a) did when he was small.

But aside from that, it could have just been a miracle, or as pointed out by darul islam and murtada, at the death of the previous Imam, the knowledge gets passed on, his father (a) was dead at the time of the debate, make al-Jawad (a) the Imam of his time.

There are also incidents,when Imam Hasan(as) answered questions during the lifetime of His Father.but yes you are right we will never be agreed,so whats the point.The deciphering of those books demands knowledge too.

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Everyone knows this Thousand doors Hadees,if His knowledge grew that does n't mean,He did n't have any before,in fact more than any human,and in every matter of deen.If He was not even well aware with religious problems,how was He infallible? If you don't know the answers,how will you be saved from errors?

As for ones from Kafi,our ulema are more well versed to get through these Ahadees,and they believe them to be knowledgeable by birth.Have you ever read how Imam Taqi(as) defeated most eminent scholars of His time at the age of six? Which book He was taking help from? But such things you will never see because the Ayat you quoted is most fit on you.You know who was habitual of quoting Ayaat on right ones? Yes the one on the throne of syria who quoted the Ayat wrongfully on Syeda Zainab(as),and She replied don't exploit the meaning of Quran for your means.Same is my answer for you.And whenever you don't find answers you start calling it conjectures.Old habit!though this conjecture thing is hall mark of your party.And its nice to see you admit that you are muqassir,and you invent concepts.

One can only open thousand gates more from each of the thousand chapters if the Person had knowledge before more than human comprehension.Otherwise how could anyone open thousand doors from each of the thousand doors,do you think its a child's task? Then stop making conjectures please.

Sometimes, I feel you are literally creating a new religion.

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Salam.

Here are a few narrations on the knowledge of the Imam's (as), with reference to their creation/Birth:

Narration 1:

Narrated from Imam Jafar As-Sadiq (as):

[Quoting only a part of the narration here]

وإذا وقع من بطن امه وقع واضعا يديه على الارض رافعا رأسه إلى السماء فأما وضعه يديه على الارض فإنه يقبض كل علم لله أنزله من السماء إلى الارض وأما رفعه رأسه إلى السماء فان مناديا ينادي به من بطنان العرش من قبل رب العزة من الافق الاعلى باسمه واسم أبيه يقول: يا فلان بن فلان اثبت تثبت، فلعظيم ما خلقتك أنت صفوتي من خلقي وموضع سري وعيبة علمي وأميني على وحيي وخليفتي في أرضي، لك ولمن تولاك أوجبت رحمتي ومنحت جناني وأحللت جواري، ثم وعزتي وجلالي لاصلين من عاداك أشد عذابي وإن وسعت عليه في دنياي من سعة رزقي فإذا انقضى الصوت - صوت المنادي - أجابه هو واضعا يديه رافعا رأسه إلى السماء يقول " شهد الله أنه لا إله إلا هو والملائكة واولوا العلم قائما بالقسط لا إله إلا هو العزيز الحكيم " قال: فإذا قال ذلك أعطاه الله العلم الاول والعلم الآخر واستحق زيارة الروح في ليلة القد

When he comes out of his mothers womb he places his hands on the floor and raises his head to the sky. Placing his hands on earth is an indication of his taking possession of all the knowledge of Allah that is sent from the heavens to earth. Raising his head to the sky is that because a caller from inside the Throne calls him from the high horizon with his name and the name of his father. It is for (on behalf of) the Lord, the Most Majestic, the Most Gracious, saying, "O so and so, son of so and so, be firm so that you would be established. For the great purpose that I have created you, you are my chosen one in my creatures. You are the keeper of My secrets, the container of My knowledge, the trustee of My inspiration and My deputy and representative on earth. I have made it necessary for My blessings and mercy to reach you and those who would love you (and acknowledge your Divine Authority). I have gifted My paradise and given a place near Myself to you and to them. Also, by My Majesty and Grace, I will make your enemies to feel the heat of My punishment even though I may have given them expanded prosperity in My world such as prosperity in their livelihood. When the call of caller ends he responds to it by placing his hands on the ground and raising his head to the sky and says the following.

"Allah Himself testifies that He is the only Lord. The angels and the men of knowledge and justice testify that Allah is the only Lord, the Majestic, and All-wise." (3:18)

The Imam said, "When he says this, Allah grants him the knowledge of the first and the knowledge of the last the qualification to be visited by the spirit in the nights of destiny."

[source: Al-Kafi, Kitab Al-Hujja, Chapter: 93, Hadees. 1]

Narration 2:

عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، عن ابن محبوب، عن هشام بن سالم، عن يزيد الكناسي، قال: سألت أبا جعفر عليه السلام أكان عيسى ابن مريم عليه السلام حين تكلم في المهد حجة لله على أهل زمانه؟ فقال: كان يومئذ نبيا حجة لله غير مرسل أما تسمع لقوله حين قال: " إني عبدالله آتاني الكتاب وجعلني نبيا و جعلني مباركا أينما كنت واوصاني بالصلاة والزكاة ما دمت حيا " قلت: فكان يومئذ حجة لله على زكريا في تلك الحال وهو في المهد؟ فقال: كان عيسى في تلك الحال آية للناس ورحمة من الله لمريم حين تكلم فعبر عنها وكان نبيا حجة على من سمع كلامه في تلك الحال، ثم صمت فلم يتكلم حتى مضيت له سنتان وكان زكريا الحجة لله عزوجل على الناس بعد صمت عيسى بسنتين ثم مات زكريا فورثه ابنه يحيى الكتاب والحكمة وهو صبي صغير، أما تسمع لقوله عزوجل: " يا يحيى خذ الكتاب بقوة وآتيناه الحكم صبيا " فلما بلغ عيسى عليه السلام سبع سنين تكلم بالنبوة والرسالة حين أوحى الله تعالى إليه، فكان عيسى الحجة على يحيى وعلى الناس أجمعين وليس تبقى الارض يا ابا خالد يوما واحدا بغير حجة لله على الناس منذ يوم خلق الله آدم عليه السلام وأسكنه الارض، فقلت: جعلت فداك أكان علي عليه السلام حجة من الله ورسوله على هذه الامة في حياة رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله؟ فقال: نعم يوم أقامه للناس ونصبه علما ودعاهم إلى ولايته وأمرهم بطاعته، قلت: وكانت طاعة علي عليه السلام واجبة على الناس في حياة رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وبعد وفاته؟ فقال: نعم ولكنه صمت فلم يتكلم مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وكانت الطاعة لرسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله على امته وعلى علي عليه السلام في حياة رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وكانت الطاعة من الله ومن رسوله على الناس كلهم لعلي عليه السلام بعد وفاة رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وكان علي عليه السلام حكيما عالما

A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from ibn Mahbub from Hisham ibn Salim from Yazid al-Kunasiyy who has said the following.

"I asked abu Ja‘far (as), ‘Was Jesus at the time he spoke to people from the cradle a Divine authority over the people of his time?" He said, "At that time he was a prophet, a Divine authority over the people but not a Mursal (Messenger). Have you not heard the words of Allah that say, ‘He said, "I am the servant of Allah. He has given me the Book and has appointed me to be a Prophet (19:30). He has blessed me no matter where I dwell, commanded me to worship Him and pay the religious tax for as long as I live." (19:31)

I then said, "Was he the Divine authority over Zackaria at the time that he was in the cradle?" He said, "At that time Jesus was a sign from Allah and a blessing to Mary (Maryam) when he spoke on her behalf. He was a prophet and a Divine authority over all those who heard his words at that time. Thereafter he did not speak until he was two years old. At Such time Zackaria was the Divine authority of Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Gracious, over the people after the silence of Jesus. Zackaria then died and his son Yahya (John) inherited the book and wisdom and he was a small child. You can hear it in the words of Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Gracious, "We commanded John, Zachariah's son), ‘O John, follow the guidance of the Lord with due steadfastness. We gave knowledge and wisdom to John during his childhood." (19:12) When Jesus became seven years he then spoke as a prophet and a messenger until Allah, the Most Holy sent him inspiration. Thus, Jesus was the Divine authority over John and over all the people. The earth is never left without the presence of a Divine authority over the people, O abu Khalid, from the day Allah created Adam and settled him on earth."

I then said, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, did Ali (as) possess Divine authority from Allah and His Messenger over this nation (Muslims) during the life time of the Messenger of Allah?" He said, "Yes, but he kept silent and did not speak along with the Messenger of Allah. At that time, during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah, obedience was of the rights of the Messenger of Allah over the ’Umma (nation) and over Ali (as). Obedience to the authority of Allah and the Messenger of Allah over the people as a whole was obligatory to Ali (as) after the death of the Messenger of Allah. Ali (as) was a very wise and knowledgeable person."

[source: Al-Kafi, Kitab Al-Hujja, Chapter: 91, Hadees. 1]

Note: Narration is authentic (Saheeh) as per the chain of narrators. See Miral Al-Uqool – Allama Majlisi, Vol. 4, Pg. 242

Narration 3:

وبهذا الاسناد، عن صالح بن عقبة، عن يزيد بن عبدالملك، عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: لما ولدت فاطمة عليها السلام أوحى الله إلى ملك فأنطلق به لسان محمد صلى الله عليه وآله فسماها فاطمة، ثم قال: إني فطمتك بالعلم وفطمتك من الطمث، ثم قال أبوجعفر عليه السلام: والله لقد فطمها الله بالعلم وعن الطمث في الميثاق

Through the same chain of narrators it is narrated from Salih ibn ‘Aqaba from Yazid ibn ‘Abd al-Malik from abu Ja‘far (as) who has said the following.

"When Fatima (as) was born Allah sent an angel to make the tongue of Muhammad (saww) call her ‘Fatima’. Then he said, "I set you free (from ignorance) with knowledge and set you free from menses."

Abu Ja‘far (as) then said, "By Allah, He had set her free with knowledge (from ignorance) and from menses at the time of universal covenant (al-Mithaq)."

[source: Al-Kafi, Kitab Al-Hujja, Chapter: 114, Hadees. 6]

http://www.marefatea...dge-of-the-imam

Edited by muhibb-ali

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Salam.

"I asked abu Ja‘far (as), ‘Was Jesus at the time he spoke to people from the cradle a Divine authority over the people of his time?" He said, "At that time he was a prophet, a Divine authority over the people but not a Mursal (Messenger).

I then said, "May Allah take my soul in service for your cause, did Ali (as) possess Divine authority from Allah and His Messenger over this nation (Muslims) during the life time of the Messenger of Allah?" He said, "Yes, but he kept silent and did not speak along with the Messenger of Allah.

[source: Al-Kafi, Kitab Al-Hujja, Chapter: 91, Hadees. 1]

Note: Narration is authentic (Saheeh) as per the chain of narrators. See Miral Al-Uqool – Allama Majlisi, Vol. 4, Pg. 242

(wasalam)

This has got nothing to do with not needing to learn anything from birth

Narration 3:

"When Fatima (as) was born Allah sent an angel to make the tongue of Muhammad (saww) call her ‘Fatima’. Then he said, "I set you free (from ignorance) with knowledge and set you free from menses."

Abu Ja‘far (as) then said, "By Allah, He had set her free with knowledge (from ignorance) and from menses at the time of universal covenant (al-Mithaq)."

Again, it is a bit of a stretch to claim this mean that Imams (a) knew everything from birth, and anyway, sayeda Fatima (a) is not an Imam, so I'm not sure what the connection is.

Narration 1

When he comes out of his mothers womb he places his hands on the floor and raises his head to the sky. Placing his hands on earth is an indication of his taking possession of all the knowledge of Allah that is sent from the heavens to earth

The Imam said, "When he says this, Allah grants him the knowledge of the first and the knowledge of the last the qualification to be visited by the spirit in the nights of destiny."

With this last narration, you have shot yourself in the foot on so many levels. Firstly, it was a big mistake to put the grading for the authenticity of the two other narrations that have little to do with the point at hand, because there can be no doubt in the mind of any reader that this proves this narration is not authentic, the question is how weak is it?

Secondly, is this hadith really hujja on you? This is the third different version I have seen you give for the birth of an imam, i've seen you twice quote the one in which, when the Imam is born,he recites the shahadatayn. Then in order to prove that when the Imam is born, he also recites the third shahada, you quote the hadith from kamal al-deen, in which when the imam is born he says salaam to all his forefathers or just to Imam Ali عليه السلام? Now another discussion has come about, and you have quoted yet another version of the birth, that you know is not authentic. In the chapter you took the hadith from (al-kafi,vol.1,chp.93), there are 8 narrations and only one has the matn of the unauthentic one you quoted.

Thirdly, here are a list of some of the chapter that you had to skip over to get to chapter 93, and produce the hadith you know is not authenitc

chp.32: a'immah عليه السلام, are the heirs of the knowledge inherited on from the other

chp.33: The Imam (a) inherited the knowledge of the Holy Prophet (s), and all the Prophets and Successors before them

chp.42: a'immah عليه السلام, receive additional (knowledge) every friday night

chp.43: if a'immah عليه السلام, did not receive new knowledge their previous knowledge would be depleted

chp.46: if a'immah (a) whish to know, they are given such knowledge

chp.49: Allah (swt) did not teach anything to His Messenger but that He commanded Him to teach such knowledge to Amir al-Mu'minin, and he was his partner in knowledge

I have things to do, and don't have time to go through all of them, but went up to chapter 49! There is still a long way to go to get to 93 (and we both know there are some more to prove my point) This shows complete and utter intellectual dishonesty on your part, as you must have surely read through these, and known there were many, many narrations indicating on knowledge being increased at points through the Imams life, yet you ignore them and produce this hadith which claims they take possession of "all the knowledge" at birth.

There is no point me commenting further, I think my point had been made, but I ask you, and karim and waiting for him, are you really will to throw out the 1000 door hadith and countless others to cling to this ghali concept that the Imams knew everything at birth? All for the sake of a hadith whose chain of narrator is not authentic.

Edited by Ali_Hussain

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Salam

Another couple of narrations which show the knowledge of the Imam's (as) from birth itself.

عن يعقوب السراج قال: دخلت على أبي عبدالله وهو واقف على رأس أبي الحسن موسى وهو في المهد، فجعل يساره طويلا، فجلست حتى فرغ، فقمت إليه فقال لي:

ادن من مولاك فسلم، فدنوت فسلمت عليه فرد علي السلام بلسان فصيح، ثم قال لي.

اذهب فغير أسم ابنتك التي سميتها امس، فإنه اسم يبغضه الله، وكان ولدت لي ابنة سميتها بالحميراء، فقال أبوعبدالله (عليه السلام): انته إلى أمره ترشد، فغيرت اسمها

From Ya‘qub al-Sarraj who has said the following.

"Once I went to see abu ‘Abd Allah (as) who was standing by the cradle of abu al-Hassan. He began to speak secretly to him for a long time. I sat there until he was free. I then stood for him and he said to me, "Come close to your Mawla (master and Leader with Divine Authority)." I went close and said the greetings of peace. He answered my greetings very clearly and then he said to me, "Go and change the name of your daughter that you named just yesterday. It is a name that makes Allah angry." A girl was born to us and I had named her al-Humayra.’" Abu ‘Abd Allah (DivineSupremeCovenantBody) said to me, "Follow his command you will have the right guidance." I then changed her name."

[source: Al-Kaafi Vol.1 Pg.310 Hadees.11]

كنت جالسا مع العباس بن عبدالمطلب وفريق من عبدالعزى بإزاء بيت الله الحرام إذ أقبلت فاطمة بنت أسد ام أميرالمؤمنين عليه السلام وكانت حاملة به لتسعة أشهر ، وقد أخذها الطلق ، فقالت : رب إني مؤمنة بك وبما جاء من عندك من رسل وكتب ، وإني مصدقة بكلام جدي إبراهيم الخليل ، وإنه بنى البيت العتيق ، فبحق الذي بنى هذا البيت وبحق المولود الذي في بطني لما يسرت علي ولادتي .

قال يزيد بن قعنب : فرأينا البيت وقد انفتح عن ظهره ودخلت فاطمة فيه وغابت عن أبصارنا ، والتزق الحائط ، فرمنا أن ينفتح لنا قفل الباب فلم ينفتح ، فعلمنا أن ذلك أمر من أمر الله عزوجل ، ثم خرجت بعد الرابع وبيدها أميرالمؤمنين عليه السلام ثم قالت : إني فضلت على من تقدمني من النساء لان آسية بنت مزاحم عبدت الله عزوجل سرا في موضع لايحب أن يعبدالله فيه إلا اضطرارا ، إن مريم بنت عمران هزت النخلة اليابسة بيدها حتى أكلت منها رطبا جنيا ، وإني دخلت بيت الله الحرام فأكلت من ثمار الجنة وأرواقها ، فلما أردت أن أخرج هتف بي هاتف ، يا فاطمة سميه عليا فهو علي ، والله العلي الاعلى يقول : إني شققت اسمه من اسمي ، وأدبته بأدبي ، ووقفته على غامض علمي ، وهو الذي يكسر الاصنام في بيتي ، وهو الذي يؤذن فوق ظهر بيتي ، ويقدسني ويمجدني ، فطوبى لمن أحبه وأطاعه ، وويل لمن أبغضه وعصاه

Narrated from Yazid bin Qaa’nab, who said:

I was sitting with Abbas Ibn Abdul Muttallib and a group from Abdul-Ozza by the Kaaba when we saw Fatema bint Asad (sa), mother of the Commander of the Believers (as) came close to the Kaaba. She was nine months pregnant with him and she was in labour.

Fatema bint Asad (sa) said:

O Allah! I believe in You. I believe in what You sent to Your messengers. I believe in Your books. I believe in the message of my grandfather, Ibrahim Al-Khaleel, and the one who build Your house. I ask You through the right of one who build this house and through the right of the baby that I am carrying to make my labour easy.

Then we saw the wall of the Kaaba open from the rear. Fatema bint Asad (sa) entered the Kaaba and she disappeared with the wall closing behind her. We tried to open the door of the Kaaba but failed. We understood that this was a miracle.

After four days she came out of the Kaaba with the Commander of the Believers (as) in her arms and said:

I have higher status than all off the women before me because Asiya bint Mozahem worshipped Allah secretly in a place that was not recommended to worship Allah except when necessary. Maryam bint Imran shook a dry palm tree and ate from its ripe dates, but I entered the Holy house of Allah and I ate from the food of Paradise.

When I wanted to come out, a caller called me and said, “O Fatema! Name him Ali because he is Ali (High) and Allah is Ali Al-A’la (the highest). Allah tells you, ‘I derived his name from My name, I educate him with My manners and I taught him My most obscure knowledge. He is the one that will break the idols in My house, he is the one that will give the Adhan (announcement), sanctifying and glorifying Me on the roof of the Kaaba. Bliss and happiness be on those who love him and follow him and woe unto those hate him and disobey him.”

[source: Mani Al Akhbar Pg.62]

Wassalam

Edited by muhibb-ali

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I was sitting with Abbas Ibn Abdul Muttallib and a group from Abdul-Ozza by the Kaaba when we saw Fatema bint Asad (sa), mother of the Commander of the Believers (as) came close to the Kaaba. She was nine months pregnant with him and she was in labour.

Don't you believe that Imams (as) are born after six months of pregnancy?

After four days she came out of the Kaaba with the Commander of the Believers (as) in her arms and said:

I have higher status than all off the women before me because Asiya bint Mozahem worshipped Allah secretly in a place that was not recommended to worship Allah except when necessary. Maryam bint Imran shook a dry palm tree and ate from its ripe dates, but I entered the Holy house of Allah and I ate from the food of Paradise.

If she had a higher status than those women, then why did the Prophet (pbuh) include them and not her in the four greatest women of Paradise? Also, how exactly would she have known these stories about Asiya and Maryam ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã?

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Sometimes, I feel you are literally creating a new religion.

Am i creating new religion.Well then go to Qum,and Najaf and preach your ideologies there,you 'll get to know soon who is creating new religion.You handful of Shiachatters are those who are trying to create new religion,not the mainstream Shia Islam.Your ideologies are exactly opposite to ninety percent Shias in the world yet putting this allegation on me? Its ridiculous.

When you people get frustrated and find no answers then start talking gibberish.

Don't you believe that Imams (as) are born after six months of pregnancy?

If she had a higher status than those women, then why did the Prophet (pbuh) include them and not her in the four greatest women of Paradise? Also, how exactly would she have known these stories about Asiya and Maryam عليهما السلام?

Only Imam Hussain(as) was born after six months of Pregnancy.

And what does it mean how bibi Fatima binte Asad(as) knew these stories? They were on religion of Abraham(as),or do you share a wahabi view about Hazrat Abu Talib(as),and His family.?

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra

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Aslamalaykum,

@Kaniz

If He was not even well aware with religious problems,how was He infallible? If you don't know the answers,how will you be saved from errors?

Well done!

Exactly! if the Imam did not know the hukm for a such a small fiqhi issue like mazi, this than gives room to argue that if the Imam a.s was ignorant (na'auzibillah) at a certain point in life, how many other issues was he not aware of? Obviously for Him a.s at certain circumstances like this situation of mazi, Holy Prophet s.a.w.w wasn't present with the Imam all the time, did the Imam commit errors while He a.s didn't have access to the Holy Prophet s.a.w.w in other aspects.

So if companions came to Imam Ali a.s, while the Holy Prophet s.a.w.w was not present and asked Him a.s a question regarding usool or furoo, how would the door to the city respond? Hold on, I don't know the the answer to your question let us wait for the Prophet s.a.w.w to come. Astagfurullah may Allah swt save us from such accusations.

The main point is, Imam not being aware of a certain issue related to deen at any point of his life, he is prone to making errors and this itself defeats the purpose of infallibility because the Imams are protected by Allah swt at all times. One of the ways He a.s is protected is through knowledge.

Did the Imam have the whole knowledge of the Quran? If you believe He a.s did than also believe the following verse......

And with Him are the keys of the unseen treasures-- none knows them but He; and He knows what is in the land and the sea, and there falls not a leaf but He knows it, nor a grain in the darkness of the earth, nor anything wet nor dry but (it is all) in a clear book.

These traditions maybe sahih but if they cannot be explained, than they have to be rejected as they go against the Quran.

Edited by muslimunity1

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^^Walaikum as Assalam,

Exactly,when umar used to rush for Imam Ali(as)'s advice regarding questions of non muslims,and complex cases.Did anyone ever see Him hesitating ,or running for His books? Then how comes He was not aware with such a fiqhi issue(nauzbillah),which the present day mujtahid will not be oblivious from.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra

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And what does it mean how bibi Fatima binte Asad(as) knew these stories? They were on religion of Abraham(as),or do you share a wahabi view about Hazrat Abu Talib(as),and His family.?

What does that have to do with anything? Just because they were on the religion of Ibrahim Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, it doesn't mean they knew about these stories.

These traditions maybe sahih but if they cannot be explained, than they have to be rejected as they go against the Quran.

They don't go against the Qur'an, just your understanding of it.

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What does that have to do with anything? Just because they were on the religion of Ibrahim عليه السلام, it doesn't mean they knew about these stories.

Wow,if one is on Religion of Ibrahim(as),and know Torah,and Bible,yet He/She could n't know these stories.If you,and me know these stories why can't they? Especially when they had Prophet(saww) with them too.

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Wow,if one is on Religion of Ibrahim(as),and know Torah,and Bible,yet He/She could n't know these stories.If you,and me know these stories why can't they? Especially when they had Prophet(saww) with them too.

The Prophet (pbuh) hadn't received revelation yet. And there is no reason to suppose that they had read the Torah and the Bible, which in any case do not contain these stories.

As for us knowing these stories, so why not them, do you ever stop to think about what you are saying? We have the Qur'an,so that's how we know. They didn't yet have the Qur'an.

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The Prophet (pbuh) hadn't received revelation yet. And there is no reason to suppose that they had read the Torah and the Bible, which in any case do not contain these stories.

As for us knowing these stories, so why not them, do you ever stop to think about what you are saying? We have the Qur'an,so that's how we know. They didn't yet have the Qur'an.

They had the Quran e Naatiq,yes i know these stories are not in Bible,sorry i neglected that,i though the mention of Asiya(as),and Mariam(as),even than how can we suppose Prophet(saww) did n't know these? when Jesus said 'i bring Book' by the time He was born,so the one Superior to Him did n't have the knowledge of His book.We all know Injeel was n't revealed,when Esa(as) was in His mother's lap. Edited by Kaniz e Zahra

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