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Truth1234

Do You Know That Ali (raa) Was Black-skinned

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Truth 1234,

I have no idea why you are constantly posting Quaranic verses or quoting hadiths. The first rule of posting something is to reflect and ponder on what you have posted

Hz Buraida (ra) by quoting the hadith has redeemed himself for all time. You still have a chance to redeem yourself.Instead I see that you are aligning yourself with the Ommayads. I see you did not pass comment on the Sunni description of Hz Ali (as).

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Truth 1234,

I have no idea why you are constantly posting Quaranic verses or quoting hadiths.

Because I am a Muslim and they are my guidance. Do you have a problem with that? What do you want me to mention besides what Allah and His Prophet (SAWS) said?

39_45.png

And when Allah is mentioned alone, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter shrink with aversion, but when those [worshipped] other than Him are mentioned, immediately they rejoice.

Hz Buraida (ra) by quoting the hadith has redeemed himself for all time. You still have a chance to redeem yourself.Instead I see that you are aligning yourself with the Ommayads.

You are sick and I don't have time to waste on you.

I see you did not pass comment on the Sunni description of Hz Ali (as).

I gave you 1000 Sunni descriptions of Ali (RAA).

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Truth 1234

So many Munafiqs / The verses of the Holy Quaran roll of their tongue. The voices so sweet but the words are from the throat not the heart. Why do you say that Hz Buraida (ra) telling the narration and redeeming himself for his animosity to Hz Ali (as) is sick. Do you not believe his original animosity was wrong or do you believe the Holy Prophet (pbuhahp) was just soft soaping for his (as) public image.

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You think that they are non-relevant occasions because of your lack of understanding.

I seem to recall a narration that there will come a time when Quaran verses will flow from a mans mouth but it will never go beyond his throat. The inference is that man will know and quote the verses but it will not be from his heart it will only be from his mouth. Bit like a munafic. When challenged you try and blind people with your knowledge of the Quaran but you do not understand it.

a reference would be appreciated if anybody has one.

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look there can be so much hikmah in physical appearence of Mola Ali ibn abi Talib.

as far as looks are concern, Muhammed (S) was the most handsome man agree?

then i have no doubt his brother Ali ibn abi talib would be the same in looks.

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To the OP:

I remember having these silly, nonsensical debates with Afro-centric nationalists many years ago: "Mohammad was black", "Arabs are originally black", "This guy and that guy were all black", etc.

Disgusting.

My biggest toothache is when somebody wants to plagiarize other people's history. Like the time Arab nationalists made claims about Saladin being Arab, even though he was Kurdish. Or the time Arab nationalists made claims about Ibn Sina being Arab, even though he was Persian.

Don't steal or plagiarize other people's history.

If you go to Saudi Arabia today and look at the real Arabs, they're all white. I'm not kidding. Go to Najd, go to Hijaz, look at the actual pure Arabs. Don't look at the Arabized people. The real Arabs have a light skin color.

As if it matters but that's the truth anyway, live with it.

I love how you say original Arabs were blacks. No, they weren't. Many years ago I remember reading historical texts about the Ethiopian-African invasion of Yemen, a region of southern Arabia. After the African warriors slaughtered all the princes and men of the Yemenite kingdom (I think it was called Himyar Kingdom if I'm not mistaken), the women were ordered not to be harmed. They were given as brides to the African soldiers and they were described as being white skinned, black eye colored women.

Of course there are dark skinned Arabs but let's not forget why. Contrary to what people think, they're not offsprings of "slave African women who bore the children of their Arab masters". Yes, a good number of dark-skinned people in Arabia today are a result of an Arab guy and slave African lady.

But the majority of dark-skinned people in Arabia today are actually offsprings of male African soldiers and native Arab (light-skinned) women. It has been happening for hundreds of years in southern Arabia, prior to Islam, because southern Arabia was constantly raided and plundered by African kingdoms.

In fact I remember those texts even saying that pagan Arabs, or "pre Islamic Arabs", were more openminded about mixing with Africans. Infact, Islam actually created an invisible 'divide' between pure Arabs and blacks.

These revelations all showed to me that Arabs are originally light-skinned, but I'll hand it that alot of them became darker over the generations, because many of them mixed with invading African armies. Don't forget Arabia was easy to take before Islam came out. Islam ironically saved the Arabs of the northern and central parts from facing similar consequences as southern Arabia.

As for the prophet. His lineage was Qureishi. Qureishis are the whitest Arabs you'll meet.

Again, this shouldn't matter to you. But it amazes me how you think there's some "conspiracy" behind not revealing Imam Ali's true "blackness".

This is as big a joke as Arab nationalists trying to steal the glory of Persians and Kurds and Mamluk-Turks.

Edited by Mo.

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I was going to make that point but haven't read through the entire thread to know if the other descriptions were posted. From what I have read, Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman are described in the way their characters are portrayed (Abu Bakr - thin with sunken cheeks, a man of the hereafter, Umar - tall, broad shouldered and strong, Uthman - handsome and bright faced (the Quraishi Prince)) while Imam Ali's description doesn't quite match his character.

However, I have this from a 'sunni' source although I don't have the reference!

Hadrat Ali was of medium-high height. He had a superb head with a face as noble as the man himself. His nose was straight, and his mouth was beautifully formed. His eyes were most commanding, being full of light and luster. There was an note of music in his voice. There was an aura of spirituality and a strong personal magnetism about him. In his youth he was handsome and full of fiery vigour. When he was older he became corpulent and bulky. His gray hair gave way to baldness. His beard, however, remained thick and luxuriant, and he often dyed it red. He was stout, genial, charitable, meditative, reserved, and he was a man who towered high above the people around him because of his intellectual and spiritual attainments

(bismillah)

(salam)

The reference is mentioned in an older topic, Post #5 here:

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To the OP:

I remember having these silly, nonsensical debates with Afro-centric nationalists many years ago: "Mohammad was black", "Arabs are originally black", "This guy and that guy were all black", etc.

Disgusting.

My biggest toothache is when somebody wants to plagiarize other people's history. Like the time Arab nationalists made claims about Saladin being Arab, even though he was Kurdish. Or the time Arab nationalists made claims about Ibn Sina being Arab, even though he was Persian.

Don't steal or plagiarize other people's history.

If you go to Saudi Arabia today and look at the real Arabs, they're all white. I'm not kidding. Go to Najd, go to Hijaz, look at the actual pure Arabs. Don't look at the Arabized people. The real Arabs have a light skin color.

As if it matters but that's the truth anyway, live with it.

I love how you say original Arabs were blacks. No, they weren't. Many years ago I remember reading historical texts about the Ethiopian-African invasion of Yemen, a region of southern Arabia. After the African warriors slaughtered all the princes and men of the Yemenite kingdom (I think it was called Himyar Kingdom if I'm not mistaken), the women were ordered not to be harmed. They were given as brides to the African soldiers and they were described as being white skinned, black eye colored women.

Of course there are dark skinned Arabs but let's not forget why. Contrary to what people think, they're not offsprings of "slave African women who bore the children of their Arab masters". Yes, a good number of dark-skinned people in Arabia today are a result of an Arab guy and slave African lady.

But the majority of dark-skinned people in Arabia today are actually offsprings of male African soldiers and native Arab (light-skinned) women. It has been happening for hundreds of years in southern Arabia, prior to Islam, because southern Arabia was constantly raided and plundered by African kingdoms.

In fact I remember those texts even saying that pagan Arabs, or "pre Islamic Arabs", were more openminded about mixing with Africans. Infact, Islam actually created an invisible 'divide' between pure Arabs and blacks.

These revelations all showed to me that Arabs are originally light-skinned, but I'll hand it that alot of them became darker over the generations, because many of them mixed with invading African armies. Don't forget Arabia was easy to take before Islam came out. Islam ironically saved the Arabs of the northern and central parts from facing similar consequences as southern Arabia.

As for the prophet. His lineage was Qureishi. Qureishis are the whitest Arabs you'll meet.

Again, this shouldn't matter to you. But it amazes me how you think there's some "conspiracy" behind not revealing Imam Ali's true "blackness".

This is as big a joke as Arab nationalists trying to steal the glory of Persians and Kurds and Mamluk-Turks.

Islam didn't create that barrier, it was many of the tyrants that ruled after the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who created it. They saw the Islamic caliphate as an Arab empire. Though to be honest, you make it seem as if Arabs never invented anything. All the peoples of the ME, even the Persians, advanced during the Islamic golden age in terms of science. Then when the Ottomans reigned, the advancements slowly seized.

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To the OP:

I remember having these silly, nonsensical debates with Afro-centric nationalists many years ago: "Mohammad was black", "Arabs are originally black", "This guy and that guy were all black", etc.

Disgusting.

My biggest toothache is when somebody wants to plagiarize other people's history. Like the time Arab nationalists made claims about Saladin being Arab, even though he was Kurdish. Or the time Arab nationalists made claims about Ibn Sina being Arab, even though he was Persian.

Don't steal or plagiarize other people's history.

If you go to Saudi Arabia today and look at the real Arabs, they're all white. I'm not kidding. Go to Najd, go to Hijaz, look at the actual pure Arabs. Don't look at the Arabized people. The real Arabs have a light skin color.

As if it matters but that's the truth anyway, live with it.

I love how you say original Arabs were blacks. No, they weren't. Many years ago I remember reading historical texts about the Ethiopian-African invasion of Yemen, a region of southern Arabia. After the African warriors slaughtered all the princes and men of the Yemenite kingdom (I think it was called Himyar Kingdom if I'm not mistaken), the women were ordered not to be harmed. They were given as brides to the African soldiers and they were described as being white skinned, black eye colored women.

Of course there are dark skinned Arabs but let's not forget why. Contrary to what people think, they're not offsprings of "slave African women who bore the children of their Arab masters". Yes, a good number of dark-skinned people in Arabia today are a result of an Arab guy and slave African lady.

But the majority of dark-skinned people in Arabia today are actually offsprings of male African soldiers and native Arab (light-skinned) women. It has been happening for hundreds of years in southern Arabia, prior to Islam, because southern Arabia was constantly raided and plundered by African kingdoms.

In fact I remember those texts even saying that pagan Arabs, or "pre Islamic Arabs", were more openminded about mixing with Africans. Infact, Islam actually created an invisible 'divide' between pure Arabs and blacks.

These revelations all showed to me that Arabs are originally light-skinned, but I'll hand it that alot of them became darker over the generations, because many of them mixed with invading African armies. Don't forget Arabia was easy to take before Islam came out. Islam ironically saved the Arabs of the northern and central parts from facing similar consequences as southern Arabia.

As for the prophet. His lineage was Qureishi. Qureishis are the whitest Arabs you'll meet.

Again, this shouldn't matter to you. But it amazes me how you think there's some "conspiracy" behind not revealing Imam Ali's true "blackness".

This is as big a joke as Arab nationalists trying to steal the glory of Persians and Kurds and Mamluk-Turks.

This is of course just your opinion not backed up by any facts. Biblical scholars have been suggesting that the Semitic races in particular the Jews were a lot darker then they are now.

Intermarrying with Europeans conversions has lightened all their skins. Not good to make any assumptions

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Truth1234 is not a troll but you do seem like troll to me. i know all about ummayds having hatred for imam ali(As) but if you dont believe on references truth1234 gave then show me our shia references about imam ali(As)'s description. now dont tell me that his armpits were seen so he wasnt dark-skinned. we should have better description then that.

.... YAWN .....

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To the OP:

I remember having these silly, nonsensical debates with Afro-centric nationalists many years ago: "Mohammad was black", "Arabs are originally black", "This guy and that guy were all black", etc.

Disgusting.

My biggest toothache is when somebody wants to plagiarize other people's history. Like the time Arab nationalists made claims about Saladin being Arab, even though he was Kurdish. Or the time Arab nationalists made claims about Ibn Sina being Arab, even though he was Persian.

Don't steal or plagiarize other people's history.

If you go to Saudi Arabia today and look at the real Arabs, they're all white. I'm not kidding. Go to Najd, go to Hijaz, look at the actual pure Arabs. Don't look at the Arabized people. The real Arabs have a light skin color.

As if it matters but that's the truth anyway, live with it.

I love how you say original Arabs were blacks. No, they weren't. Many years ago I remember reading historical texts about the Ethiopian-African invasion of Yemen, a region of southern Arabia. After the African warriors slaughtered all the princes and men of the Yemenite kingdom (I think it was called Himyar Kingdom if I'm not mistaken), the women were ordered not to be harmed. They were given as brides to the African soldiers and they were described as being white skinned, black eye colored women.

Of course there are dark skinned Arabs but let's not forget why. Contrary to what people think, they're not offsprings of "slave African women who bore the children of their Arab masters". Yes, a good number of dark-skinned people in Arabia today are a result of an Arab guy and slave African lady.

But the majority of dark-skinned people in Arabia today are actually offsprings of male African soldiers and native Arab (light-skinned) women. It has been happening for hundreds of years in southern Arabia, prior to Islam, because southern Arabia was constantly raided and plundered by African kingdoms.

In fact I remember those texts even saying that pagan Arabs, or "pre Islamic Arabs", were more openminded about mixing with Africans. Infact, Islam actually created an invisible 'divide' between pure Arabs and blacks.

These revelations all showed to me that Arabs are originally light-skinned, but I'll hand it that alot of them became darker over the generations, because many of them mixed with invading African armies. Don't forget Arabia was easy to take before Islam came out. Islam ironically saved the Arabs of the northern and central parts from facing similar consequences as southern Arabia.

As for the prophet. His lineage was Qureishi. Qureishis are the whitest Arabs you'll meet.

Again, this shouldn't matter to you. But it amazes me how you think there's some "conspiracy" behind not revealing Imam Ali's true "blackness".

This is as big a joke as Arab nationalists trying to steal the glory of Persians and Kurds and Mamluk-Turks.

All of that talk and you haven't provided a bit of proof of the nonsense that you have said. Again, this is the description of the Arabs according to the reliable scholars of the past:

Al-Mubarrad said: "The Arabs used to take pride in their asmar and black complexion and they used to hate a red (white) color and very fair color and they said that it was the color of the Persians."ÞÇá ÇáãÈÑÏ"ÇáÚÑÈ ßÇäÊ ÊÝÊÎÑ ÈÇáÓãÑÉ æ ÇáÓæÇÏ æ ßÇäÊ ÊßÑå ÇáÍãÑÉ æ ÇáÔÞÑÉ æ ÊÞæá ÇäåÇ ãä ÃáæÇä ÇáÚÌã"

Ibn Berry said: The Arabs describe their color as black and they describe the color of the Persians as red (white).æ ÞÇá ÇÈä ÈÑí: "ÇáÚÑÈ‏ ‏ÊÕÝ‏ ÃáæÇäåÇ ‏ÈÇáÓæÇÏ‏ ‏æ‏ ‏ÊÕÝ‏ ‏ÃáæÇä‏ ‏ÇáÚÌã‏ ‏ÈÇáÍãÑÉ"

Ibn Sayyida said: "...They are Arabs and their colors are adam, asmar, and black."ÞÇá ÇÈä ÓíÏå ... Ýåã ÚÑÈ¡ æÃáæÇäåã ÇáÃÏãÉ æÇáÓãÑÉ æÇáÓæÇÏ

Abu Taalib Al-Nahwi said: "... It is said that he meant that he was a pure Arab because most Arabs are adam complexioned.ÞÇá ‏ÃÈæ‏ ‏ØÇáÈ‏ ‏ÇáäÍæí:‏ ... ‏æ‏ ‏Þíá‏ ‏ÃÑÇÏ‏‏ ‏Ãäå‏ ‏ãä‏ ‏ÎÇáÕ‏ ‏ÇáÚÑÈ‏ ‏æ‏ ‏Õãíãåã‏ ‏áÃä‏ ‏ÇáÛÇáÈ‏ ‏Úáì‏ ‏ÃáæÇä‏ ‏ÇáÚÑÈ‏ ‏ÇáÃÏãÉ.

Ibn Mandhour said: "The color of the Arabs is asmar and adam - except for a minority who aren't."ÞÇá‏ ‏ÇÈä‏ ‏ãäÙæÑ:‏ ‏‏"‏ÃáæÇä‏ ‏ÇáÚÑÈ‏ ‏ÇáÓãÑÉ‏ ‏æ‏ ‏ÇáÃÏãÉ‏ ‏ÇáÇ ‏ÞáíáÇ"

Mohamed ibn Ahmed Al-Azhari said:"Most Arabs are adam complexioned."* ÞÇá ãÍãÏ Èä ÃÍãÏ ÇáÃÒåÑí (ÕÇÍÈ ÇáÊåÐíÈ): "‏ÇáÛÇáÈ‏ ‏Úáì‏ ‏ÃáæÇä‏ ‏ÇáÚÑÈ‏ ‏ÇáÃÏãÉ‏"‏.

Respond to what these scholars have said or don't say anything.

And you say that the dark-skinned Arabs are dark as a result of mixing with so-called "Africans". So tell me where Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia the son of Abdellah the son of Al-Hasan the son of Al-Hasan the son of Ali the son of Abi Taalib got his blackness from. Here is his genealogy and here is all of his mothers:

ãÍãÏ Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÇáÍÓä Èä ÇáÍÓä Èä Úáí Èä ÃÈí ØÇáÈ ÑÖí Çááå Úäå æíßäì ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏ Çááå

æÃãå åäÏ ÈäÊ ÃÈí ÚÈíÏÉ Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÒãÚÉ Èä ÇáÃÓæÏ Èä ÇáãØáÈ Èä ÃÓÏ Èä ÚÈÏ ÇáÚÒì Èä ÞÕí

æÃãåÇ ÞÑíÈÉ ÈäÊ íÒíÏ Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä æåÈ Èä ÒãÚÉ Èä ÇáÃÓæÏ Èä ÇáãØáÈ Èä ÃÓÏ.æÃãåÇ ÎÏíÌÉ ÈäÊ ãÍãÏ Èä ØáíÈ Èä ÃÒåÑ Èä ÚÈÏ ÚæÝ Èä ÚÈÏ ÇáÍÑË

æÃãåÇ Ãã ãÓáã ÈäÊ ÚÈÏ ÇáÑÍãä Èä ÃÒåÑ Èä ÚÈÏ ÚæÝ

æÃãåÇ ÞÏÉ ÈäÊ ÚÑÝÌÉ Èä ÚËãÇä Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÚãÑ Èä ãÎÒæã

æÃãåÇ ÇáÏäíÈÉ ÈäÊ ÚÈÏ ÚæÝ Èä ÚÈÏ Èä ÇáÍÑË Èä ÒåÑÉ

æÃãåÇ ÈäÊ ÇáÚÏÇÁ Èä åÑã Èä ÑæÇÍÉ Èä ÍÌÑ Èä ÚÈÏ Èä ãÚíÕ Èä ÚÇãÑ Èä áÄí

æÃãåÇ ÑÒÇ ÈäÊ æåÈ Èä ËÚáÈÉ Èä æÇÆáÉ Èä ÚãÑæ Èä ÔíÈÇä Èä ãÍÇÑÈ Èä ÝåÑ

æÃãåÇ ãä Èäí ÇáÃÍãÑ Èä ÇáÍÑË Èä ÚÈÏ ãäÇÝ Èä ßäÇäÉ Èä ÎÒíãÉ Èä ãÏÑßÉ Èä ÅáíÇÓ Èä ãÖÑ

As you can see if you can read Arabic, none of his mothers were "Africans" or slave-girls. So explain to us how he got his very black complexion.

Here's his description and here's what he said:

Al-Hafidh Al-Dhahabi says:

Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia was "black-skinned and huge".

Al-Tabari says:

"Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia was tall, jet-black-skinned and huge. He was nick-named The Bituminous because of his blackness and Abu Ja'afar Al-Mansour used to call him Charcoal".

Bear in mind that the person called The Bituminous and Charcoal was a pure-blooded Arab closely related to the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS). This person called The Bituminous and Charcoal said:

"You know that no one has as close relations to or relations to anyone better than he whom I am very closely related to (meaning the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS))".

He also said:

"I am descended from the Prophet (SAWS) from my mother's side AND my father's side. I am the purest of Bani Hashim (the branch of Quraish that the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS) is from) in genealogy and the noblest of them both paternally AND maternally. NO NON-ARAB BLOOD RUNS THROUGH MY VEINS!

Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia wrote a letter to the Abbasid ruler complaining to him that he had more right to be the ruler because he was so closely related to the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS). Amongst the things he said in his letter to the Abbasid ruler was, "We are in the right...Our father Ali was the Imam (leader). How did you inherit the rule which belongs to the children of Ali?! You know that no one who seeks this position (ruler) has a purer genealogy than I do or is more highborn than I am...You know that no one has as close relations or relations to anyone better than he whom I am very closely related to (He means the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS)). I am from the best of Banu Hashim in genealogy and the noblest of them both paternally and maternally. No non-Arab blood runs through my veins and I am not related to the slave-girls." Bear in mind that Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia, who is here talking about how pure his Arab blood is and how closely he is related to the Prophet Mohamed (SAWS), was very black-skinned.

Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia had a brother named Musa Al-Jawn (the Black). Musa Al-Jawn was also very black-skinned. He was nicknamed Al-Jawn (the Black) because of his blackness. The Sharifs called Banu Al-Akhaidar, who are found in Oman, Saudi Arabia, and other places, are descended from Musa Al-Jawn.

Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia and Musa Al-Jawn had another brother named Yahya the Possessor of Daylum. Yahya, too, was described as black-skinned. Mohamed Al-Nafs Al-Zakia, Musa Al-Jawn and Yahya the Possessor of Daylum were all the brothers of Idriss the 1st, the father of the Idrissi Sharifs and the founder of the city of Fes in Morocco.

You say that the light-skinned Arabs of Saudi Arabia are the pure Arabs and the dark-skinned ones are mixed. You lie. The light-skinned ones are the ones who are mixed with non-Arab Persians, Romans, Turks, Slavs, etc.

Edited by Truth1234

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^^Again mentioned his own scholars as reliable. :rolleyes:

They are not MY scholars. They are scholars of Arabic literature, letters and culture. Do you know of scholars of Arabic literature, letters and culture other than them???

In regard to this thread. " Do you know.... Prophet said " anyone jealous of Imam Ali (as) is a [Edited Out] "

Jealous of Ali (RAA)???!!! WHAT are you talking about???

look there can be so much hikmah in physical appearence of Mola Ali ibn abi Talib.

as far as looks are concern, Muhammed (S) was the most handsome man agree?

then i have no doubt his brother Ali ibn abi talib would be the same in looks.

Who said that Ali (RAA) wasn't handsome???

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Who said that Ali (RAA) wasn't handsome???

short fat bald hairy with short arms. Ah the epitome of handsomeness. If Hz Ali (as) was handsome according to you and the people you quote why has it never been mentioned or discussed yet.

You sound like you now clutching at straws because you recognise that your nasibi tendencies have become exposed

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short fat bald hairy with short arms. Ah the epitome of handsomeness. If Hz Ali (as) was handsome according to you and the people you quote why has it never been mentioned or discussed yet.

You sound like you now clutching at straws because you recognise that your nasibi tendencies have become exposed

Why don't you show here where I mentioned handsome or not handsome. You think that a person who is bald can't be handsome. Not me. You think that a person dark-skinned can't be handsome. Not me. You think that a person having a large belly can't be handsome. Not me. I can show you many pictures of bald, dark-skinned, and heavy-set people who are handsome. Your thinking is diseased. Don't blame me for that.

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short fat bald hairy with short arms. Ah the epitome of handsomeness. If Hz Ali (as) was handsome according to you and the people you quote why has it never been mentioned or discussed yet.

You sound like you now clutching at straws because you recognise that your nasibi tendencies have become exposed

shame on you, I dont understand why u sunnis have so much enmity towards Imam Ali(s). dont forget Muhammed have repeatedly mentioned, Muhammed(s) and Ali(s) are created from same noor, so if u are insulting Ali u are insulting Muhammed(s) as well.

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shame on you, I dont understand why u sunnis have so much enmity towards Imam Ali(s). dont forget Muhammed have repeatedly mentioned, Muhammed(s) and Ali(s) are created from same noor, so if u are insulting Ali u are insulting Muhammed(s) as well.

Shame on you for being dumb. Have you bothered to read this thread at all !!!. I am being sarcastic and quoting him. You guys who read the last post and rush in like some crusading evangelist annoy the hell out of me.

At least the OP is true to himself he is a Nasibi and Munafiq. What excuse have you got for not bothering to read or understand what is being said.

No wonder the OP posted this thread he was obviously looking to bait people like you

Edited by A true Sunni

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At least the OP is true to himself he is a Nasibi and Munafiq.

Your shaytan won't benefit you on the day that Allah asks you about these words of yours. In fact, I don't think that they are from your shaytan. I think that you yourself are a shaytan. Don't you dare talk in the name of Islam or mention Ali (RAA)! Islam is far from the religion that you practice and Ali (RAA) has nothing to do with you and you have nothing to do with him!

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Why don't you show here where I mentioned handsome or not handsome. You think that a person who is bald can't be handsome. Not me. You think that a person dark-skinned can't be handsome. Not me. You think that a person having a large belly can't be handsome. Not me. I can show you many pictures of bald, dark-skinned, and heavy-set people who are handsome. Your thinking is diseased. Don't blame me for that.

I told you stop trying to bait me. Been there, seen it, done it. But I have always respected the sanctity of the Ahlul Bait. I see you still dont stop these Nasibi Munafiq posts even after being exposed. I see you again harp on about dark skin. I have never had an issue with dark skin . The only person who has truly had an issue with dark skin is you otherwise why mention it at every opportunity.

You too may yet receive salvation if you repent of your ways. Not only are you a Munafiq you are an ignorant Munafiq who carries on even after he has been exposed.

It is either to fool himself, fool others, or claim ignorance on the day of Judgement. Fortunately for all of us Allah will see straight through to your Munafiq heart .

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I told you stop trying to bait me. Been there, seen it, done it. But I have always respected the sanctity of the Ahlul Bait. I see you still dont stop these Nasibi Munafiq posts even after being exposed. I see you again harp on about dark skin. I have never had an issue with dark skin . The only person who has truly had an issue with dark skin is you otherwise why mention it at every opportunity.

You too may yet receive salvation if you repent of your ways. Not only are you a Munafiq you are an ignorant Munafiq who carries on even after he has been exposed.

It is either to fool himself, fool others, or claim ignorance on the day of Judgement. Fortunately for all of us Allah will see straight through to your Munafiq heart .

Go and find an ignorant shaytaan like yourself to debate. I don't hold debates or discussions with the likes of you. I have nothing further to say to you.

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Go and find an ignorant shaytaan like yourself to debate. I don't hold debates or discussions with the likes of you. I have nothing further to say to you.

Last resort of people who been exposed. Runaway, your words expose you everytime you post a reply. I see even your so called 'Shia sidekick' (if he ever was Shia) has deserted you

Edited by A true Sunni

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Last resort of people who been exposed. Runaway, your words expose you everytime you post a reply. I see even your so called 'Shia sidekick' (if he ever was Shia) has deserted you

Didn't I tell you that I don't debate the likes of you? Why are you still here? Shoo!

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Didn't I tell you that I don't debate the likes of you? Why are you still here? Shoo!

LOL you do make me laugh. When you lose a debate a your munafiq nature exposed you suddenly find you dont like debating with me but keep replying. Me thinks you feeling vulnerable. Where is your sidekick has he realised you are a munafiq as well or was his just a 'created profile'

Allah(SWT) please help all muslims to get rid of all the hatred we have in our hearts for each other. Unite us. And make the muslims rule the world. Ameen.

Allah (SWT please help all muslims to get rid of all the hatred we have in our hearts (perceived and not) for the Ahlul Bait . Unite us and make the muslims submit to the will of Allah. Ameen

Truth1234

The sad thing is that you are so steeped in the lore of the Nasibis who push you towards attacking and vilifying fellow muslims that you forget to respect the sanctity of the Ahlul Bait . So eager are you to score points and prove yourself a man.

What were you planning to do raise a hue and cry and then post a link on a Nasibi Wahhabi forum saying look what a clever boy I am . Look I exposed the rascist Iranian. Look I exposed the rascist IndoPaks. What were you planning to end on a fanfare of look thats why there are so few black shias. They all rascist.

Creating fitna for the sake of fitna. Truly you are credit to your wahhabi masters

Edited by A true Sunni

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A true Sunni:

Regarding the dna of Jews, I read about genetic studies which concluded that the Jewish people have almost identical haplogroup types to the native populations of the levant, such as the Lebanese people, Jordanians, Syrians, etc.

So actually, the Jews didnt mix with Europeans as much as you like to believe. Theyre pretty much native mediterranean people, which explains their identical haplogroup types matching that of the other levantine populations. Which might also explain similar appearances between them.

And yes, mediterranean people tend to be white. Biodiversity dictates that. Theres no reason for a mediterranean to be darkskinned. Dark skin has to do with your position relative to the equator.

As for Arabs, they were never darker before. Genetic studies also prove that. Arabs are and were overwhelmingly light skinned. The dark skinned ones are byproducts of interracial marriages between Arab men/women and African men/women. Or theyre also dark skinned because they were Arabized.

You dont sound like you live in the middle east.

===

Meanwhile the 'Kafirs' have landed 'curiosity' rover on the planet mars. while you guys figure the race and skin color of the Holy Imams and Prophets. Good luck.

Well theres a pretty simple explanation for that. We religious people belong to the old age. The new age is all about godlessness and evolutionary science. The future will see colonizations and terraformations of other planets while we end up in history books and go down in history for debating the skin color of a man who lived over a thousand years ago.

Lets make the most of it. :P

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A true Sunni:

Regarding the dna of Jews, I read about genetic studies which concluded that the Jewish people have almost identical haplogroup types to the native populations of the levant, such as the Lebanese people, Jordanians, Syrians, etc.

So actually, the Jews didnt mix with Europeans as much as you like to believe. Theyre pretty much native mediterranean people, which explains their identical haplogroup types matching that of the other levantine populations. Which might also explain similar appearances between them.

And yes, mediterranean people tend to be white. Biodiversity dictates that. Theres no reason for a mediterranean to be darkskinned. Dark skin has to do with your position relative to the equator.

As for Arabs, they were never darker before. Genetic studies also prove that. Arabs are and were overwhelmingly light skinned. The dark skinned ones are byproducts of interracial marriages between Arab men/women and African men/women. Or theyre also dark skinned because they were Arabized.

You dont sound like you live in the middle east.

===

I think reading any study looking at Jewish DNA is problematical to start with. Jews have a vested interest in proving that they originated in the middle east and did not mix with Europeans.

Secondly the falasha jews a black semitic race raises all sorts of interesting possibilities so I take most studies discussing one argument or the other with a pinch of salt.

i am not arguing for or against a black or a white Arab. What I am saying is that our views and stance is dictated by our own innate desire to paint our prophets/Imams in our own colour.

If u white u perceive Jesus to blonde hair and blue eyed. If u a white Arab you imagine Prophet Mohammed (pbuhahp) as being white.

If you dark Arab you wish him to be more like you.

If you Iranian your pictures have Iranian/Arab features

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I dont think its problematic. When it comes to science, Jews are more sincere and honest about things than Arabs or Muslims for that matter by a million light years. Arabs cant even acknowledge that most muslim scientists in the golden age werent Arabs much less be trusted. But thats for another time...

Im sure the finest universities around the world do not want to destroy their reputation by making false studies and concluding false information.

I dont know whats so bad about the original semitic people being lightskinned and I dont know whats so wrong about Jews being originally lightskinned in specific. Afterall these are native mediterranean peoples. The biodiversity dictates these things. Science institutes all over the world, research institutes associated to the finest universities, which im sure everyone of us wished to be enrolled in at some point in our lives, are the ones making these conclusions.

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i am not arguing for or against a black or a white Arab. What I am saying is that our views and stance is dictated by our own innate desire to paint our prophets/Imams in our own colour.

If u white u perceive Jesus to blonde hair and blue eyed. If u a white Arab you imagine Prophet Mohammed (pbuhahp) as being white.

If you dark Arab you wish him to be more like you.

If you Iranian your pictures have Iranian/Arab features

Nowadays, when you say Arabs, it includes the dark skinned people from Sudan, slightly brown skinned Egyptian and white skin, green/blue eyes Berber race from Tunisia/Algeria. Back in the old days, before these territory were conquered, Arabs were not as diverse as you see them now.

The Arabs as we know them back then were NOT as black as African or as white skinned Caucasian. Depending on how you look at them they could either be slightly darker (from white skin) or slightly lighter (from the blacks).

You are right that people likes to see the Prophet or Imams as they sees themselves. And that's because racism was/is huge in the middle east. White skin was highly favorable, darker skin not so much.

Edited by Gypsy

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You are right that people likes to see the Prophet or Imams as they sees themselves. And that's because racism was/is huge in the middle east. White skin was highly favorable, darker skin not so much.

and thats why i urge caution when people put up pics of this latest crop of Saudi princes as examples of Arabs. Equally since rascism is/was rife in the Middle East I can also see why Ummayad rulers might want to paint Hz Ali (as) as short fat bald hairy and black.

However history revisionists in the hope of being more politically correct like to paint everyone black. As you pointed out the truth was somewhere in between

I dont think its problematic. When it comes to science, Jews are more sincere and honest about things than Arabs or Muslims for that matter by a million light years. Arabs cant even acknowledge that most muslim scientists in the golden age werent Arabs much less be trusted. But thats for another time...

Im sure the finest universities around the world do not want to destroy their reputation by making false studies and concluding false information.

I dont know whats so bad about the original semitic people being lightskinned and I dont know whats so wrong about Jews being originally lightskinned in specific. Afterall these are native mediterranean peoples. The biodiversity dictates these things. Science institutes all over the world, research institutes associated to the finest universities, which im sure everyone of us wished to be enrolled in at some point in our lives, are the ones making these conclusions.

was thinking of writing a sarcastic repost but decided against it. I cannot believe a person as well eduated and well read truly believe what you just wrote. But in case you do. No probs its a free world. You are free to believe what ever you wish

BTW Mo. can you just clarify. Are you Muslim ?. I seem to recall there used to be a Mo. on Shiachat a few years ago that wasnt muslim

Edited by A true Sunni

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As for Arabs, they were never darker before. Genetic studies also prove that. Arabs are and were overwhelmingly light skinned. The dark skinned ones are byproducts of interracial marriages between Arab men/women and African men/women. Or theyre also dark skinned because they were Arabized.

I've proven that what you said here is incorrect. Where is your proof that what you say is correct? If you don't remember what I said, look at post #296 again here: http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/235004379-do-you-know-that-ali-raa-was-black-skinned/page__st__275

Regarding the dna of Jews, I read about genetic studies which concluded that the Jewish people have almost identical haplogroup types to the native populations of the levant, such as the Lebanese people, Jordanians, Syrians, etc.

So actually, the Jews didnt mix with Europeans as much as you like to believe. Theyre pretty much native mediterranean people, which explains their identical haplogroup types matching that of the other levantine populations. Which might also explain similar appearances between them.

Have you ever thought that maybe it's because those people you are calling native populations of the Levant are in reality people of European origin like the Jews who claim that they are Hebrews?

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I've proven that what you said here is incorrect. Where is your proof that what you say is correct? If you don't remember what I said, look at post #296 again here: http://www.shiachat....d/page__st__275

I think people are by and large ignoring you and your 'proof' because of your habit of baiting and causing fitna.

I am a little different in as such I dont want you to be creating a link to some Wahhabi site trying to show what a clever boy you think you are.

It must annoy you that you have failed so conclusively to prove anything except you are a Munafiq

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I think people are by and large ignoring you and your 'proof' because of your habit of baiting and causing fitna.

I am a little different in as such I dont want you to be creating a link to some Wahhabi site trying to show what a clever boy you think you are.

It must annoy you that you have failed so conclusively to prove anything except you are a Munafiq

Didn't I tell you that I have nothing further to say to you? Shoo!!! When you learn a little bit about Islam and learn to take the words of Allah seriously and fear Him, you can talk to me. Until then, shoo! Allah said:

49_11.png

O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule [other] women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after [one's] faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

'Ikrama was asked the meaning of "and do not call each other by [offensive] nicknames" and he said:

åæ Þæá ÇáÑÌá ááÑÌá : íÇ ãäÇÝÞ ¡ íÇ ßÇÝÑ

"It is a man saying to another man: 'Oh munafiq, Oh kaafir.'"

When you learn some manners concerning MY prophet Mohamed (SAWS) and obey his words and obey what he commands and what he forbids, you can talk to me. My Prophet (SAWS) said:

ãóäú Ñóãóì ãõÄúãöäðÇ ÈößõÝúÑò Ýóåõæó ßóÞóÊúáöåö

"Whoever calls a believer an unbeliever, it's like murdering him."

MY Prophet (SAWS) also said:

Ñæí Çä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞÇá: ÅÐÇ ÞÇá ÇáÑÌá áÕÇÍÈå "íÇ ßÇÝÑ" ÝÅäåÇ ÊÌÈ Úáì ÃÍÏåãÇ. ÝÅä ßÇä ÇáÐí Þíá áå ßÇÝÑ Ýåæ ßÇÝÑ. æÅáÇ ÑÌÚ Åáíå ãÇ ÞÇá.

It is narrated that the Prophet (SAWS) said: When man calls his companion ‘O you Kaafir’, then this would necessarily stick to one of the two. If the man who was called a kaafir is actually one, then he would be a kaafir; otherwise whatever the caller said would return upon him.

Despite knowing what Allah and His Prophet (SAWS) have said, you have totally disregarded their words and have put yourself before Allah and His Prophet (SAWS)! When you repent and learn to not put yourself before Allah and His Prophet (SAWS), you can talk to me. Allah says:

49_1.png

O you who have believed, do not put [yourselves] before Allah and His Messenger but fear Allah . Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

When you learn some manners, you can talk to me. Until then, shoo!

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