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Truth1234

Do You Know That Ali (raa) Was Black-skinned

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You forgot to attack post number 51, also a vile attack on our Imams عليه السلام. In fact, by your standards, far worse the the description I quoted, why don't you attack the brother who posted that?

In fact, why don't you enlighten us, show us the real narrations on this topic, since you seem to know for sure which ones are authentic.

Do you actually think that narration was authentic where knowledge was stored in his belly???

Now does this make sense to you? Really?

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Do you actually think that narration was authentic where knowledge was stored in his belly???

Now does this make sense to you? Really?

The problem is, no one is bringing any other narrations. Whats next, if people post the narrations about the Prophet (s) have hair on his shoulders that is also an insult to him?

Do you believe that people are insluting nabi ayub (a) by saying he had a skin desease?

The starting point is for people to bring other narrations, not just get emotional.

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Do you have knowledge? I just gave you my knowledge of the description of Ali (RAA). Give me yours now.

حَدَّثَنَا الْوَاقِدِيُّ ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي سَبْرَةَ ، عَنْ إِسْحَاقَ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي فَرْوَةَ ، قَالَ : سَأَلْتُ أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ عَنْ صِفَةِ عَلِيٍّ ، فَقَالَ : كَانَ رَجُلا آدَمَ شَدِيدَ الأُدْمَةِ ثَقِيلَ الْعَيْنَيْنِ عَظِيمَهُمَا ، ذَا بَطْنٍ ، أَصْلَعَ ، قُلْتُ : كَانَ طَوِيلا أَوْ قَصِيرًا ؟ قَالَ : هُوَ إِلَى الْقِصَرِ أَقْرَبُ

Al-Waaqidi informed us, Abu Bakr ibn Abdellah ibn Abi Sabra informed us, on the authority of Ishaaq ibn Abdellah ibn Abi Farwa, who said:

"I asked Aba Ja'afar (Mohamed ibn Ali Al-Baaqir) about the description of Ali and he said: 'He was a shadid al-udma (black-skinned) man with big, heavy eyes, a large belly, and he was bald.' I asked him whether he was tall or short and he said: 'He leaned toward shortness.'"

Brother do you have any knowledge??? I said that saying Umar also looked like that so its no big deal doesn't help your case.....especially here...

What do you mean by big belly, maybe we are not on the same page......maybe I am not understanding you correctly (I don't care about the other things....they very possibly could be true)

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The problem is, no one is bringing any other narrations. Whats next, if people post the narrations about the Prophet (s) have hair on his shoulders that is also an insult to him?

Do you believe that people are insluting nabi ayub (a) by saying he had a skin desease?

The starting point is for people to bring other narrations, not just get emotional.

That skin disease was a trial,but this knowledge stored in belly thing is quite illogical even in the absence of any other narration.These are not emotions but rationality does n't accept it either.Are bellies made to store knowledge? Prophet Mohammad(as) is Madinah tul ilm so how big belly He should be having?(nauzbillah).

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Brother do you have any knowledge??? I said that saying Umar also looked like that so its no big deal doesn't help your case.....especially here...

What do you mean by big belly, maybe we are not on the same page......maybe I am not understanding you correctly (I don't care about the other things....they very possibly could be true)

Brother I only related the hadiths as they are. It says that he had a stomach, which means that his stomach was large. I think we all know what a big belly means. How big it was...Allah knows best.

I'm getting a message from the forum saying:

"You can make 2 more posts until 28 July 2012 - 12:31 AM. This restriction is in place until you have 42 more approved posts"

Why can't I make more than 2 more posts?

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Brother I only related the hadiths as they are. It says that he had a stomach, which means that his stomach was large. I think we all know what a big belly means. How big it was...Allah knows best.

I'm getting a message from the forum saying:

"You can make 2 more posts until 28 July 2012 - 12:31 AM. This restriction is in place until you have 42 more approved posts"

Why can't I make more than 2 more posts?

Because its only like 50 posts a day or something.

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Mufti Jaffer Hussain in his biography of Imam Ali(as) wrote Him to be wheatish,he is the same guy who translated Nehj ul Balagha in urdu,other ulema of this area has reported it too in their books though don't remember the original references,from where they quoted.

I want the original reference in Arabic. I don't think that what you say exists at all. What I think happened is someone played with the translation of the word in Arabic. Either intentionally or out of ignorance.

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Brother I only related the hadiths as they are. It says that he had a stomach, which means that his stomach was large. I think we all know what a big belly means. How big it was...Allah knows best.

I'm getting a message from the forum saying:

"You can make 2 more posts until 28 July 2012 - 12:31 AM. This restriction is in place until you have 42 more approved posts"

Why can't I make more than 2 more posts?

it's the forum's way of politely saying you talk to much. lol

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I want the original reference in Arabic. I don't think that what you say exists at all. What I think happened is someone played with the translation of the word in Arabic. Either intentionally or out of ignorance.

You can't play,everyone else can?

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it's the forum's way of politely saying you talk to much. lol

You should be respectful to every member here. its no way to response to anything, what u mean by he talks too much? its a forum and everyone can post things relating to topic.

i told @truth1234 to start thread here about imam ali(as)'s true appearence. he is giving here all references about description of imam Ali(As)'s and most are telling their own version of description here that they have in mind. if someone believes imam Ali(as) wasnt black skinned then give you references like truth1234 did.

i see people got problem with dark-skin so they having hard time accepting imam Ali(As) was dark-skinned. not only imam Ali(as) but most of arabs were dark during time of prophet muhammad(saw).

i humbly request my shia brothers to response with politness and not insult or talk with rudness.

I think he was White (may have looked wheatish at some point in time in his life due to the scorching sun). Also try and imagine would someone who was born in the Holy Ka'aba be black or logically have a blessed charisma ? Would he who was the Lion of God (Allah S.W.T) be pot bellied or fit and agile ??

Imagine .................................... don't look for pictures :)

Ohh so you think he was white huh? what makes you think imam Ali(AS) was white?

Edited by hasani

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^^All of the references he gave were from sunni sources,the one which is existed in Shia books referring to belly storing knowledge was not a believable one.So in absence of clear narrations from Shia books,this discussion is futile,we can't rely on sunni sources in this matter,they could be easily fabricated.

If you are Shia,do you really think that people coming after Imam Ali(as) were so fair for Him that they would have given right description about Him.There was and still is,an air of hatred against Him in arab world.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra

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And still no one has answered my question......If his belly stored his knowledge, did his brain store his food?

Where would the food exit? The ear? If someone hit him in the stomach, would he go stupid? So many things wrong with this theory.

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Quite possibly the weirdest attempt to 'demean' Maula Ali (as) I've ever seen. A new member posts narrations from Sunni sources trying to convince us that (mazhallah) Maula Ali (as) was physically unattractive (at least by today's standards) and uses the flimsy pretext of inaccurate pictures.

Not only are the sources meaningless to us but so are the pictures. You or I have little idea of what they really looked like and the argument has hit rock bottom when a narration suggesting knowledge is stored in the stomach (reminding of a narration about Muawiyahs stomach never being filled) comes in to the mix.

But, as an aside, there is one element touched upon that's sadly true - the latent racism within lots of Muslims.That isn't restricted to Shi'ah though, it's a universal disease fed by the media and lapped up by fair-skinned crackers who likely prefer a 'white' imbecile over a 'black' momin 9 time out of 10.

ALI

Edited by Kismet110

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^^All of the references he gave were from sunni sources,the one which is existed in Shia books referring to belly storing knowledge was not a believable one.So in absence of clear narrations from Shia books,this discussion is futile,we can't rely on sunni sources in this matter,they could be easily fabricated.

If you are Shia,do you really think that people coming after Imam Ali(as) were so fair for Him that they would have given right description about Him.There was and still is,an air of hatred against Him in arab world.

Why don't you believe what Imam Mohamed ibn Ali Al-Baqir says below? And if you don't like my sources, show me your sources. Is it logical that there isn't one Shia source giving a clear description of Ali? There is something very suspicious about that. Here's what Imam Mohamed Al-Baqir ibn Ali Zein Al-Abidin said about the description of Ali (RAA). Do you believe him??? :

حَدَّثَنَا الْوَاقِدِيُّ ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي سَبْرَةَ ، عَنْ إِسْحَاقَ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي فَرْوَةَ ، قَالَ : سَأَلْتُ أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ عَنْ صِفَةِ عَلِيٍّ ، فَقَالَ : كَانَ رَجُلا آدَمَ شَدِيدَ الأُدْمَةِ ثَقِيلَ الْعَيْنَيْنِ عَظِيمَهُمَا ، ذَا بَطْنٍ ، أَصْلَعَ ، قُلْتُ : كَانَ طَوِيلا أَوْ قَصِيرًا ؟ قَالَ : هُوَ إِلَى الْقِصَرِ أَقْرَبُ

Al-Waaqidi informed us, Abu Bakr ibn Abdellah ibn Abi Sabra informed us, on the authority of Ishaaq ibn Abdellah ibn Abi Farwa, who said:

"I asked Aba Ja'afar (Mohamed ibn Ali Al-Baaqir) about the description of Ali and he said: 'He was a shadid al-udma (black-skinned) man with big, heavy eyes, a large belly, and he was bald.' I asked him whether he was tall or short and he said: 'He leaned toward shortness.'"

Don't worry about where the hadith comes from. Read it and read who said it and tell me whether you believe it or not and if not, why not. And give me your hadith with a description of Ali. Shia sources should be full of physical descriptions of Ali, shouldn't they? I find it very strange that no one here can give me a description of Ali from a so-called "Shia source". I find this VERY strange and suspicious.

Edited by Truth1234

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Why don't you believe what Imam Mohamed ibn Ali Al-Baqir says below? And if you don't like my sources, show me your sources. Is it logical that there isn't one Shia source giving a clear description of Ali? There is something very suspicious about that. Here's what Imam Mohamed Al-Baqir ibn Ali Zein Al-Abidin said about the description of Ali (RAA). Do you believe him??? :

حَدَّثَنَا الْوَاقِدِيُّ ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي سَبْرَةَ ، عَنْ إِسْحَاقَ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي فَرْوَةَ ، قَالَ : سَأَلْتُ أَبَا جَعْفَرٍ عَنْ صِفَةِ عَلِيٍّ ، فَقَالَ : كَانَ رَجُلا آدَمَ شَدِيدَ الأُدْمَةِ ثَقِيلَ الْعَيْنَيْنِ عَظِيمَهُمَا ، ذَا بَطْنٍ ، أَصْلَعَ ، قُلْتُ : كَانَ طَوِيلا أَوْ قَصِيرًا ؟ قَالَ : هُوَ إِلَى الْقِصَرِ أَقْرَبُ

Al-Waaqidi informed us, Abu Bakr ibn Abdellah ibn Abi Sabra informed us, on the authority of Ishaaq ibn Abdellah ibn Abi Farwa, who said:

"I asked Aba Ja'afar (Mohamed ibn Ali Al-Baaqir) about the description of Ali and he said: 'He was a shadid al-udma (black-skinned) man with big, heavy eyes, a large belly, and he was bald.' I asked him whether he was tall or short and he said: 'He leaned toward shortness.'"

From which book have you taken this? A sunni book?

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