Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Haydar Husayn

Hadiths On Bab Ul Hawaij

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

My post clearly was talking about the Imam's (as) being Baab of Allah and did not talk about, Baab Al-Hawaaij. Although to me its very clear that Baab Al-Hawaaij is nothing but a subset of Baab of Allah سبحانه وتعالى.

Why are only certain individuals referred to as Bab ul Hawaij?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have one or two titles on here that have only been reserved for you and a few others. Not all of them have been applied by "hot-headed dimwits with a half a brain", some have been used by seemingly intelligent, knowledgeable Shi'ah.

Do you need a narration to prove that or would repetition by individuals suffice for it to be deemed true?

ALI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not all of them have been applied by "hot-headed dimwits with a half a brain", some have been used by seemingly intelligent, knowledgeable Shi'ah.

Thinking that I am some sort of undercover Wahhabi automatically calls into question a person's intelligence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thinking that I am some sort of undercover Wahhabi automatically calls into question a person's intelligence.

LOL only in your mind, not the mind of the thinker who thunk the thought.

ALI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A ghali is essentially someone who says about the Imams (a) what they don't say about themselves, so now that it has been established that this title is not from an Imam, are people going to keep using it?

Edited by Ali_Hussain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

(salam)

^ Yes, I would use the title of Bab ul Hawaij for Imams AS, although I am just a revert. Ayatullah Abdul Husayn Dastghaib mentioned Imam Musa al-Kadhim (a.s.) as Bab-ul-Hawaij in Chapter 2 of his book Greater Sins the Complete Book. http://www.al-islam...._sins_complete/

Ayatullah Hussain Madhahiri mentions Hazrat Abbas AS as Bab al Hawaij at the end of Section 5 in his book Islamic Family-Life Ethics. http://www.al-islam....micfamily-life/

Since Imam Ali AS has the title Bab ul Ilm, does that mean that other Imams are not Bab ul Ilm? No, the Imams AS are all the same, it was just the different times and situations that made them different. May Allah SWT hasten the return of Imam Zaman AJ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A ghali is essentially someone who says about the Imams (a) what they don't say about themselves, so now that it has been established that this title is not from an Imam, are people going to keep using it?

Where did you get this perverse logic from? I know you're one of HH's staunchest but even he hasn't suggested using the term is a ghulluw issue.

If I say the Imams (as) are "The Most Immaculate Waseelah For Our Wishes To Be Fulfilled" do you think you could find that in a narration? And when you couldn't do you think my statement would suddenly become untrue, or would I be transformed into a ghali because that sequence of words had never been recorded?

ALI

Edited by Kismet110

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A ghali is essentially someone who says about the Imams (a) what they don't say about themselves, so now that it has been established that this title is not from an Imam, are people going to keep using it?

When they are Doors(Baab) to reach Allah then desires (hajaat) fall into the same category.Hawaij will also need the use of door,and as per your doctrines our almost all of the ulema become ghaali,so who cares if you call us too.We are proud to be call this way.

And as i said before any honorific realistic title does n't need narrations like we call Imam Hussain(as) Syed ul Shuhuda,which He actually is.Now if you won't find narration then you would stop thinking so,or will think that He may not be the one?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A ghali is essentially someone who says about the Imams (a) what they don't say about themselves, so now that it has been established that this title is not from an Imam, are people going to keep using it?

This is the result of HH inquisitive curiosity.

A bunch of kids with google were unable to locate any proof so all of a sudden it becomes a ghali belief!

The likes of al-Khoei wouldn't disagree that the early scholars had different beliefs on some issues. This is pretty obvious unless someone wants to believe that their works have been tampered with. Anyway, the point isn't whether or not they did contradict, but that you would have to hold them to the same standard. Somehow, I doubt you would be very consistent in doing that though...

Tell me something i dont know. While dealing with humans its only normal to have diversity in opinions. However the difference is one passed away recently and still has colleagues and students left behind to present his proper view point.

Can I ask what you are even doing on ShiaChat with this kind of attitude? Most of the forums on this site might as well be closed down, since everyone would be better off referring to the current scholars.

I also said consult a local Aalim? When was the last time you did that?

Instead of just stating that current scholars have done all this, why don't you quote them and help out those poor youths and reverts that I am apparently busy misguiding? Is insulting me more worthy of your time than that? Perhaps the problem is that you don't actually know how to answer any of these questions, you just assume they have been answered by current scholars, and are content with that.

Insulting you? My goal is not to insult you. I think i am trying to help you out. If even 1 individual had any kind of doubt due to your post then i think you would be held responsible for it.

Not every thing you ask can be answered because some reasons are based on faith alone which has no definition nor proof.

Someone once directed me to the writings of a modern scholar on one of the issues I was discussing, and I made a thread on my response to that work, which I didn't find very impressive. http://www.shiachat....and-istighatha/

Perfect example of what i have been saying all along. You have already made up your mind on an issue yet you act like a curious individual asking a question.

Obviously my knowledge is nowhere comparable to that of a marja, however having great knowledge doesn't imply that a person is always right. There are non-Muslims who have far greater knowledge of Islam than you, but I doubt you would consider that they are more on haqq than you are.

False assumption.

And you have shown indications of possessing knowledge?

I have no knowledge at all so when i have an issue or confusion i refer to my local Zakir or Aalim. They usually have a huge library (all centers in my area do) and we sort the issue out the normal way if i had to do it online it would be through some of the knowledgeable bro on this website.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is farcical (but it's SC so that's not a surprise). Usually the same person starts these, gets squarely refuted then goes quiet and moves on to start another similar one.

As you said, he isn't interested one iota in learning, just trying to attack Shi'ah aquaid disguised as a quest for knowledge.

@HH: This is what I just spotted you directed at me in another thread:

"As for someone with your views accusing others of misquoting the Qur'an to suit their personal beliefs, that is just beyond hilarious."

Put your money where your mouth is - show me a single instance where I misquoted Noble Quran or Paak Narrations?

Coming from a person who started a thread recently based on Wikipedia + personal viewpoints and presented it in the manner of irrefutable proof? Now that's hilarious.

ALI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL only in your mind, not the mind of the thinker who thunk the thought.

Well, I am the only one who is in a position to be certain whether or not I am a Wahhabi. I've made it clear that I'm not, and there is more than enough evidence from my posts to back that up. If people want to slander me, during the month of Ramadan or all times, then that is their business, but I hope they realise the consequences of what they are doing. Slander is not a joke in Islam.

This is the result of HH inquisitive curiosity.

A bunch of kids with google were unable to locate any proof so all of a sudden it becomes a ghali belief!

Tell me honestly, do you really think there is a hadith that gives this title to all these different members of the Ahlulbayt (as)?

Tell me something i dont know. While dealing with humans its only normal to have diversity in opinions. However the difference is one passed away recently and still has colleagues and students left behind to present his proper view point.

Are you claiming we don't actually know what the true view of the early scholars was?

I also said consult a local Aalim? When was the last time you did that?

'Local Aalims' are usually not worth consulting, since they mostly don't know why they believe what they believe either.

Insulting you? My goal is not to insult you. I think i am trying to help you out. If even 1 individual had any kind of doubt due to your post then i think you would be held responsible for it.

Doubts can be healthy. Overcoming them leads to stronger faith. Anyway, it is absurd to suggest that I would be held responsible for someone having doubts because I question whether al-Abbas ibn `Ali really was 8 feet tall, or because I asked what the origin of the title Bab ul Hawaij was.

Not every thing you ask can be answered because some reasons are based on faith alone which has no definition nor proof.

This makes no sense. Everything I ask should be provable from the Qur'an and the ahadith. If it can't, then it should be thrown out. It seems you are comfortable simply relying on blind faith, but thinking people usually aren't.

A person like you is very lucky to have been born into Shia Islam, because with your attitude, it's hard to imagine how you would have ever been able to leave whatever other religion you had been born into.

Perfect example of what i have been saying all along. You have already made up your mind on an issue yet you act like a curious individual asking a question.

I make my mind up based on the evidence.

False assumption.

Which one? That there are non-Muslims who know more about Islam than you? You are extremely delusional if you think that isn't true.

I have no knowledge at all so when i have an issue or confusion i refer to my local Zakir or Aalim. They usually have a huge library (all centers in my area do) and we sort the issue out the normal way if i had to do it online it would be through some of the knowledgeable bro on this website.

Your local Zakir? Wow. I have to admit that I actually overestimated you.

This thread is farcical (but it's SC so that's not a surprise). Usually the same person starts these, gets squarely refuted then goes quiet and moves on to start another similar one.

How can you get refuted after asking a question? Anyway, as it turns out, my suspicion that there were no ahadith to back up this title, seems to have been confirmed.

As you said, he isn't interested one iota in learning, just trying to attack Shi'ah aquaid disguised as a quest for knowledge.

Are these things really so important to your `aqeeda? If so, then I feel sorry for you.

@HH: This is what I just spotted you directed at me in another thread:

"As for someone with your views accusing others of misquoting the Qur'an to suit their personal beliefs, that is just beyond hilarious."

Put your money where your mouth is - show me a single instance where I misquoted Noble Quran or Paak Narrations?

I don't know about you specifically, but it's certainly something often done by people with your views. Even on this thread someone tried to twist the verse about seeking nearness to Allah to back up praying to Imams.

Coming from a person who started a thread recently based on Wikipedia + personal viewpoints and presented it in the manner of irrefutable proof? Now that's hilarious.

You guys are really making yourselves look stupid here. Do any of your actually have a reason for doubting that the wikipedia information on horses is incorrect? Do you actually even realise how dumb you seem in making an issue out of this, or can't your brains get past the fact that it's wikipedia?

Anyway, as a matter of fact, wikipedia is not generally much less accurate than other encyclopedias anyway. If there was a reason to suspect bias, then there would be good grounds to be cautious, but I fail to see what possible bias could creep into an article on horses.

The free online resource Wikipedia is about as accurate on science as the Encyclopedia Britannica, a study shows.

The British journal Nature examined a range of scientific entries on both works of reference and found few differences in accuracy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4840340.stm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Put your money where your mouth is - show me a single instance where I misquoted Noble Quran or Paak Narrations?

By the way, you've done worse than that. You have narrated a fabricated hadith, with a fabricated reference.

As you are a human though please dwell on this for a moment:

"Blessed Angels on the 10th of Muharram every year cut their bare backs with a sword due to the grief of my ancestors and forebears."

Imam Ali Raza (as) Bihar Ul Anwar Volume 104 Page 223

Looks like angels have no problem grieving for Ahlebayt (as) whilst their so-called 'Shi'ah' are embarrased and ashamed.

If you weren't so biased, you would probably have realised that the hadith was very unlikely to be real, and would certainly not have risked quoting it without checking it for yourself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tell me honestly, do you really think there is a hadith that gives this title to all these different members of the Ahlulbayt (as)?

Here you are 2 weeks ago asking "However, I've never actually seen any hadiths quoted where these titles are bestowed on them. Is anyone aware of any?"

Seems like you have already came to a conclusion so honestly tell us what research did you accomplish other then posting this question on this forum.

Now do you notice the trend of your problem?

Are you claiming we don't actually know what the true view of the early scholars was?

Dont argue for the sake of arguing. You know exactly what i am trying to imply.

'Local Aalims' are usually not worth consulting, since they mostly don't know why they believe what they believe either.

Nice! Dont consult local aalims who have libraries of book instead post on Shiachat and ask the people of Shiachat to contribute. Maybe one of them would get lucky.

I am very curious to know the names of the books you have read to grade aalims and zaakirs. Please list them. Maybe if i am impressed i will stop listening to them and take your advice.

This makes no sense. Everything I ask should be provable from the Qur'an and the ahadith. If it can't, then it should be thrown out. It seems you are comfortable simply relying on blind faith, but thinking people usually aren't.

That's rich... Do you possess knowledge of all our hadith and tafsir of quraan? Secondly, When you read hadith how do you grade them? after all you have a problem with blind faith so i am assuming you do you own research first.

Which one? That there are non-Muslims who know more about Islam than you? You are extremely delusional if you think that isn't true.

If they have more knowledge then more power to them. I have no problem admitting it.

I wont respond to your other jabs cause they are based on assumption.

Your local Zakir? Wow. I have to admit that I actually overestimated you.

:D Compared to your Sheikh al Islam "el Google Search bar"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm bored of this discussion now Logic, and you really aren't worth taking the time to respond to. If you want to continue throwing your tantrums everytime I ask a question or give my opinion, then do so, but I won't be taking the bait. As for warning others about me, I doubt anyone who would be likely to take any notice of what I say is going to take seriously a person who consults his local zakir for religious knowledge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm bored of this discussion now Logic, and you really aren't worth taking the time to respond to. If you want to continue throwing your tantrums everytime I ask a question or give my opinion, then do so, but I won't be taking the bait. As for warning others about me, I doubt anyone who would be likely to take any notice of what I say is going to take seriously a person who consults his local zakir for religious knowledge.

The minute you are put on the hot seat you decide to bail.

As a courtesy please respond to this question.List the names of the books you have read to grade aalims and zaakirs. If i am impressed i will stop listening to them and take your advice.

Go ahead dazzle us all with your knowledge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm bored of this discussion now Logic, and you really aren't worth taking the time to respond to. If you want to continue throwing your tantrums everytime I ask a question or give my opinion, then do so, but I won't be taking the bait. As for warning others about me, I doubt anyone who would be likely to take any notice of what I say is going to take seriously a person who consults his local zakir for religious knowledge.

Actually, he raises some excellent points, though he delivers them in a mordant fashion, which means you are less likely to take notice of them.

You start threads purportedly asking for help in finding information on a particular topic from SC members. In reality you have already done your own research (how exhaustive is known only to you) and formulated a conclusion. Why don't you simply start threads with titles like "Bab ul Hawaij is not Authentic", and then present information to support your thesis? It would be a more transparent and honest way to promulgate your views.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People, what on earth is wrong with asking for a hadeeth that specifies the A'imma (as) or other select individuals as Baab ul Hawaaij? Why can't you take what the ma'sumeen (as) have given and leave anything they have not?

Absolutely nothing. It's the OP's method that annoys some people here, apparently. Read my previous post ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I am the only one who is in a position to be certain whether or not I am a Wahhabi. I've made it clear that I'm not, and there is more than enough evidence from my posts to back that up. If people want to slander me, during the month of Ramadan or all times, then that is their business, but I hope they realise the consequences of what they are doing. Slander is not a joke in Islam.

Doubts can be healthy. Overcoming them leads to stronger faith. Anyway, it is absurd to suggest that I would be held responsible for someone having doubts because I question whether al-Abbas ibn `Ali really was 8 feet tall, or because I asked what the origin of the title Bab ul Hawaij was.

How can you get refuted after asking a question? Anyway, as it turns out, my suspicion that there were no ahadith to back up this title, seems to have been confirmed.

Are these things really so important to your `aqeeda? If so, then I feel sorry for you.

I don't know about you specifically, but it's certainly something often done by people with your views. Even on this thread someone tried to twist the verse about seeking nearness to Allah to back up praying to Imams.

Aren't you the one who told me to get a thick skin? Then I suggest you do the same instead of getting all high and mighty because people have suspicion on your claim to be a Shi'ah. Act like x and you'll be called x, simple.

You can try the innocent inquisitive act but it doesn't work. You used Wikipedia and your own guesswork to 'prove' it couldn't be possible then suggested anyone who thinks differently is wrong.

Every single thread I've seen you start over the last few months you get plenty of answers that make it clear your position is wrong. But you're not asking because you genuinely want to know, you're mind was made up before you posted so start being honest rather than acting like it's a subject you're unsure on.

Just because something isn't part of aqueedah does it mean it's fair play to denigrate it? Tell me, is love of all sahaba a core part of sunni aquaid? No, but does that stop sunnis being offended if you present any of them in a bad light?

You accused me directly of misquoting Noble Quran, now you change it to "I don't know about you specifically"?

Shame on your lying and hypocrisy. In Mahe Ramadhan.

By the way, you've done worse than that. You have narrated a fabricated hadith, with a fabricated reference.

http://www.shiachat....ost__p__2388151

If you weren't so biased, you would probably have realised that the hadith was very unlikely to be real, and would certainly not have risked quoting it without checking it for yourself.

Someone (usually reliable) posted me a narration and I repeated it here. As soon as br macisaac pointed out it was not correct I removed it from my sig and posted to acknowledge the fact. It's called a mistake.

Tell me, how many times have you posted to acknowledge you were wrong?

ALI

Edited by Kismet110

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aren't you the one who told me to get a thick skin? Then I suggest you do the same instead of getting all high and mighty because people have suspicion on your claim to be a Shi'ah. Act like x and you'll be called x, simple.

Except that I'm not acting like x, which most people here can see apart from a select few who apparently have emotional and intellectual difficulties that lead to a very selective reading of my posts.

You can try the innocent inquisitive act but it doesn't work. You used Wikipedia and your own guesswork to 'prove' it couldn't be possible then suggested anyone who thinks differently is wrong.

Yet again with the wikipedia comments? Tell me straight out, do you doubt that the information I quoted from wiklpedia is accurate? You seem to want to have it both ways, by criticising me for using wikipedia, but at the same time being unwilling to stick your neck out and say that you believe the information is wrong.

If you believe it is wrong, then say so. And if you believe it isn't, then stop crying about it.

Every single thread I've seen you start over the last few months you get plenty of answers that make it clear your position is wrong. But you're not asking because you genuinely want to know, you're mind was made up before you posted so start being honest rather than acting like it's a subject you're unsure on.

In this instance, I genuinely didn't know whether there were any ahadith or not. I had a suspicion that there weren't, for various reasons, but I didn't know for sure. So I gave people the chance to provide any, but the indications are that they don't exist.

As for these answers you are talking about, where are they? Did someone post a hadith on here? No. Did someone prove that al-Abbas ibn `Ali was over 8 feet tall? No. Obviously you are desperate to hold on to your beliefs, so you will cling to any straws, but that doesn't mean that it counts as solid proof.

Just because something isn't part of aqueedah does it mean it's fair play to denigrate it? Tell me, is love of all sahaba a core part of sunni aquaid? No, but does that stop sunnis being offended if you present any of them in a bad light?

If something is fabricated and/or absurd, then of course it's fair play to denigrate it.

You accused me directly of misquoting Noble Quran, now you change it to "I don't know about you specifically"?

Actually, if you read carefully, you will see that I didn't accuse you specifically.

"As for someone with your views accusing others of misquoting the Qur'an to suit their personal beliefs, that is just beyond hilarious."

In other words, I was accusing people with your type of views for doing it. However, I have to admit that I didn't actually mean 'misquote', I meant 'twist'. I don't recall any specific instances of people changing the wording of an ayah. Instead, ayahs are usually taken out of context or given weird interpretations. So for that, I apologise.

Shame on your lying and hypocrisy. In Mahe Ramadhan.

You have the nerve to say this after slandering me? Wow.

Someone (usually reliable) posted me a narration and I repeated it here. As soon as br macisaac pointed out it was not correct I removed it from my sig and posted to acknowledge the fact. It's called a mistake.

This is basically the problem with you guys. When it comes to confirming the things you already believe, you just switch off your brains, and take whatever is given to you by 'usually reliable' people. If you have been able to thinking objectively for even a few seconds, I'm sure even you could have figured out that the chances of this hadith being real were almost non-existent. However, your extreme bias blinded you to the obvious.

Tell me, how many times have you posted to acknowledge you were wrong?

Many times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People, what on earth is wrong with asking for a hadeeth that specifies the A'imma (as) or other select individuals as Baab ul Hawaaij? Why can't you take what the ma'sumeen (as) have given and leave anything they have not?

Murtada the issue is not as simple as it appears. Do you honestly think we are that shallow to have this problem when Shiachat has a subsection asking for proof of the existence of Allah and His attributes? Think about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, he raises some excellent points, though he delivers them in a mordant fashion, which means you are less likely to take notice of them.

You start threads purportedly asking for help in finding information on a particular topic from SC members. In reality you have already done your own research (how exhaustive is known only to you) and formulated a conclusion. Why don't you simply start threads with titles like "Bab ul Hawaij is not Authentic", and then present information to support your thesis? It would be a more transparent and honest way to promulgate your views.

I didn't name the thread "Bab ul Hawaij is not authentic" for the simple reason that I didn't know for sure (I suppose I still don't, but I would be quite shocked at this point if there were such a hadith, for Hadhrat Abbas at least). I had a suspicion that it wasn't when I started the thread, and wanted to see if anyone would provide proof to the contrary (which has happened on other topics).

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking for proof of something that you are sceptical about.

A general point I would make is I have noticed that people (and not just those on shiachat) get the most upset over questions where they think there might actually not be a good answer. When there is a really convincing way to answer someone, then the question never bothers them, rather they are happy to get a chance to 'knock it out of the park'. However, the weaker the evidence on which they are relying, the more upset they get when you question them on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

(salam)

The title of Bab ul Hawaij (the door to fulfilling people's needs) has been given to both Imma Musa al-Kadhim (a) and to al-Abbas ibn `Ali, and possibly others as well. However, I've never actually seen any hadiths quoted where these titles are bestowed on them. Is anyone aware of any?

Salam,

I'm going to start my opinions with 2 points:

1. I'm not aware that we can only give titles if they are included in sahih/hasan/muwaththaq ahadith.

2. Nevertheless, logically, the given title must be inline with sahih/hasan/muwaththaq ahadith. For example (albeit, an extreme one), we can't give title of "Son of God" to the Aimmah (as).

Now, let's look at the title in discussion, Bab al-Hawaij. I'm not an Arabic speaker, so I'm going to take your translation, "the door to fulfilling people's needs", as granted.

Comparing this to the ahadith, I think the answer it's not a straight black and white. It will depend on how one interprets this.

- If one interprets this as "following them since it's one of the best form of wasilah", then I don't think it's wrong.

- If one interprets this as "the only way to get our needs is by asking them to pray for us and we can't pray to Allah (swt) directly", that's definitely wrong, since we have a lot of prayers where we're asking to Allah (swt) directly.

- If one interprets this as "the best way is asking them to pray for us as wasilah because it's better than asking to Allah (swt) directly due to our shortcomings", then this is a gray area, because some (such as you) don't agree with this, but some do.

In short, I think the meaning of a title is much more important than whether a title is backed by ahadith or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam,

Ya Ali(a.s.) madad

 

There may not be a hadith about this but everyone for sure know that Hazrat Ali moula (a.s.) granted these titles by himself. O people i request you, don't you understand the logic? Hamshakl e Ali (same face like Ali), Moula Abbas was appointed helper of Imam Hussain by Moula Ali. Please recall all the majalis you heard throughout your life, don't you remember that Ali moula(a.s.) mentioned this from time to time that Abbas is helper of my Family.

 

Above all he was a servant of Imam Hussain(a.s.), the falg bearer, and helper who would help Imam and his family in everyway. Do you forget that whenever younger bibi would want something she would only call O uncle Abbas(a.s.) where are you? :'(

 

I ask for forgiveness if there is any mistake. Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam,

Ya Ali(a.s.) madad

 

There may not be a hadith about this but everyone for sure know that Hazrat Ali moula (a.s.) granted these titles by himself. O people i request you, don't you understand the logic? Hamshakl e Ali (same face like Ali), Moula Abbas was appointed helper of Imam Hussain by Moula Ali. Please recall all the majalis you heard throughout your life, don't you remember that Ali moula(a.s.) mentioned this from time to time that Abbas is helper of my Family.

 

Above all he was a servant of Imam Hussain(a.s.), the falg bearer, and helper who would help Imam and his family in everyway. Do you forget that whenever younger bibi would want something she would only call O uncle Abbas(a.s.) where are you? :'(

 

I ask for forgiveness if there is any mistake. Thanks

Relying on stuff that gets said in majalis isn't going to help, since that is the whole problem in the first place. We can't go around giving names to people, that are then taken as functions, and before you know it people are building whole arguments upon something that is completely baseless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 31/07/2012 at 10:04 PM, Haydar Husayn said:

I'm bored of this discussion now Logic, and you really aren't worth taking the time to respond to. If you want to continue throwing your tantrums everytime I ask a question or give my opinion, then do so, but I won't be taking the bait. As for warning others about me, I doubt anyone who would be likely to take any notice of what I say is going to take seriously a person who consults his local zakir for religious knowledge.

I want to bump this due to brother haji quoting this thread to me.

So i conclude:

1. We attribute special powers to hazrat abbas a.s, that no-one else seems to be attributed with i.e Husayn or x can reject you, but Abbas will never reject you

2. We have made a cult out of hazrat abbas a.s, based on absolutely no hadith giving him this title, giving him this added tawassul above normal powers.

It was all a lie. There is not a single authentic or even dai'f hadith presented to prove these practises.

Our imams a.s probably never even knew of hazrat abbas a.s being referred to by this title (unless God gave them the knowledge).

It's like tatbir, it gains cultural approval, a few big scholars affirm it is okay, and like a parasite it's invaded our madhab.

I just can't fathom where logic goes.

Is it not offensive to be drawing the face of a man you have no idea what he looked liked, plastering it over all mosques, giving him a special title few others have due to manmade and not imam ordained permission, giving him added ontop powers of tawassul i.e he never refuses your wish, which our imams a.s never ever said themselves.

How backward we are. The closest to the truth. And yet held back like this!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OP and others who are deeply concerned with this title.

 

Do you think it would be prudent, to first inform the people of your understanding of the person you are concerned about, and want to know why people have assigned this particular title?  

 

Your understanding may be very different from everyone else and that may explain, why you would even question this particular title, or is it just an academic exercise? if it is, why this particular title?

 

Edited by S.M.H.A.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure this isn't how the ahlulbayt would react to answering one's question. People questioned about their infallibility and they proved it. We must gain as much knowledge as we can and such sites are here to educate ourselves. This attitude clearly wouldn't persuade and outsider to convert nor would it persuade us to ask again. We need evidence so that we can reply to other people who are non shias when they ask us. If u don't know the answer then don't comment but we shouldn't be fighting amongst ourselves we all know what tawassul is we just needed to know about babul hawaij. Thank you for ur help but very shameful behaviour

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding some people who think babul hawaij didn't exist, this title was clearly given by our imams for our school doesn't make additions to religion and our maraja have also called them babul hawaij

Edited by Mohsin Bokhari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...