Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Dagga

Quran Challenge

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

It was never a challenge in the first place but being there are virtually no sunnis left on this Forum then any thing will suffice.

Dagga, you have been well and truly routed on this thread, it doesn't look good when anyone resorts to cheap insults and singularly claim hollow victory after such a pounding - you sound like Saddam's spokesman claiming the Republican Guard are wiping out the invaders during the last Gulf War.

Please do the decent thing now and stand down on this one.

ALI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

'Kismet110', please, the fact that you call your religion "Shi'ah of Maula Ali' instead of "Islam" is sad in itself.

You are entitled to hold your own beliefs, so don't think I'm stupid or a fool for not agreeing with you.

You seem to only be "proving" the concept of Imaamah amongst yourselves, how is that fulfilling the challenge?

Al-MuHammadee, if you are convinced that you are seeing the concept than thats good for you, but please read the following ayah ^_^.

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.

Edited by Dagga

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Dagga,

You are indeed soooooo funny. Man, you are a highly talented comedian. Please keep it up!!! I nearly broke my ribs from laughing at your last joke.

It is so refreshing to see you going forwards and backwards all the time, contradicting your earlier posts as soon as you are cornered!

Well, your nightmare is not over yet. I know you are regretting about ever opening this thread. But, your regrets are only just beginning. The race has not even started.

I will make the question much simpler this time so that you get more tightly cornered.

The word “imaam“ is mentioned TWELVE times in the qur‘aan. Its other synonyms, i. e. khaleefah, wilaayah and divine kingship, have also been mentioned several times throughout the book of Allaah. Now the question for you: DO THE WORDS “IMAAM“, “KHALEEFAH“, “WALI“ AND “KING“ MEAN “PROPHET“ IN THE QUR‘AAN OR NOT???

A simple YES or NO answer is sufficient.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems you think you're guiding me, for the sake of your pleasure I will answer, no.

Out of all these twelve times, in one instance does imam refer to book/ record, yes or no?

Edited by Dagga

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the debate is over, finally. Dagga has just committed an intellectual suicide. The matter is finished. All praise be to Allaah.

This is how it goes:

1. Prophethood is different from imaamah bi amrillaah (also called khilaafah, wilaayah and kingship)

2. Prophet Aadam (as) was appointed a prophet AND a khaleefah. This proves that they are two different offices, and both are appointed by Allaah.

3. Prophet Ibraaheem (as) too was appointed an Imaam, decades after being a prophet. Allaah promised to appoint imaams among his righteous, sinless offspring.

4. Imaamah has therefore continued till today in the progeny, namely Muhammad (pbuh) and his family (as).

The divine office of Imaamah bi amrillaah has been proved to exist and to continue till today in the Qur‘aan. YOUR IGNORANT “CHALLENGE“ HAS THEREFORE BEEN CRUSHED TO RUBBLE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems you think you're guiding me, for the sake of your pleasure I will answer, no.

Out of all these twelve times, in one instance does imam refer to book/ record, yes or no?

How would "Imam" refer to a "book/record"???? "Imam" will naturally refer to "Imam" and "book" will refer to "book".

Look, Dagga: the procedure is simple. Read the Quran, and when you stumble upon the suspect word, see if it is spelled like this - "Alif-i-M-a-M", then the word is Imam. While if the word goes like "K-i-T-a-B" then it refers to "book".

The procedure is simple.

Now if we refer to verse 17:71(Shakir):

(Remember) the day when We will call every people with their Imam; then whoever is given his book in his right hand, these shall read their book; and they shall not be dealt with a whit unjustly.

It looks quite simple to me, the Arabic is spelled like "biImamihim". I do not see the letters "K, T, B". So why should I believe that it refers to book/record and not Imam?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I knew this thread will not go any where and usually the shia on this website use hadeaths to prove immamate but this time we only used the quran This is a shia chat milestone.

But in all honesty Dagga you have hatred towards shia islam you just dont want to be wrong by the way i like your joke about the pity you have over that christian who became shia what a whabbi reply.

shia vs sunni debate

Result

Shia Won

Record shia d245777abca64ece2d5d7ca0d19fddb6.png sunital umer 0

Edited by shia4life669

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

'Kismet110', please, the fact that you call your religion "Shi'ah of Maula Ali' instead of "Islam" is sad in itself.

I wrote that to make it clear I am not from the shiah of Muawiyah like the majority are.

I wrote that because only the Shi'ah of Maula Ali (as) are on Guidance according to the Prophet (saw).

I hope you understand now.

ALI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the debate is over, finally. Dagga has just committed an intellectual suicide. The matter is finished. All praise be to Allaah.

This is how it goes:

1. Prophethood is different from imaamah bi amrillaah (also called khilaafah, wilaayah and kingship)

2. Prophet Aadam (as) was appointed a prophet AND a khaleefah. This proves that they are two different offices, and both are appointed by Allaah.

3. Prophet Ibraaheem (as) too was appointed an Imaam, decades after being a prophet. Allaah promised to appoint imaams among his righteous, sinless offspring.

4. Imaamah has therefore continued till today in the progeny, namely Muhammad (pbuh) and his family (as).

The divine office of Imaamah bi amrillaah has been proved to exist and to continue till today in the Qur‘aan. YOUR IGNORANT “CHALLENGE“ HAS THEREFORE BEEN CRUSHED TO RUBBLE.

1. FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT LET US SAY IMAAMAH IS DIFFERENT FROM PROPHETHOOD.

2 &3. IT ONLY SEEMS TO EXIST IN PROPHETS.

4. THIS CONTINUED FOR THE PROPHETS FROM IBRAHIM, ENDING WITH MUHAMMAD

NOW TELL ME, how did you complete the challenge when only Shia are agreeing with you, you have not PROVED anything but the way you have taken verses of the Qur'an and came up with a concept that will support the very reason your religion deviated from Islam when in fact these verses are being played around with according to your interpretation, May Allah have mercy on you.

To whatever your name was who said the kitab imam thing, please read chapter 36 verse 12 and tell me if imam means book or leader in that verse.

Edited by Dagga

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Asalam alaikum

Sorry to interupt but just wanna say mashallah at DAGGA your posts are very good and your challenge as of yet has NOT been answered and i know it never will be

Basically they cannot answer through quran unless they add their own meaning to it

You are doing a great job on here mashallah

I enjoying watching you destroy their ideology like ambrosechappel just the truth and ibrahim786 there used to be ayubi but he propbaly got banned for speaking truth

May Allah (swt) give you more knowledge inshallah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are several, several verses about Imaamah according to the exegeses of the Ahl al-Bayt (as). For lots of saheeh reports on Imaamah in our books, including those concerning verses about Imaamah, please see:

عقيدتنا في وجوب معرفة الامام ( ع ) - رواية صحيحة

And

روايات صحيحة في الإمامة

You may not agree with us or with our Imaams (as). But, that is our 'aqeedah, and you've got to live with that.

Yes I dont agree about the theory of imamah however I do respect your beliefs. Sunnis respect shia imams as we love and respect them also - I am afraid the same cannot be said by the shias regarding the sahabah. Its the shias lacking the respect!!!

I appreciate you have mentioned the sahih hadiths and I will research and check your links but only in english I am afraid will do.

do you have any sahih hadiths directly from the prophet pbuh about imamah? I know you mentioned the imams narrating from the prophet pbuh. I dont mean to be stubborn or anything - sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I dont agree about the theory of imamah however I do respect your beliefs. Sunnis respect shia imams as we love and respect them also - I am afraid the same cannot be said by the shias regarding the sahabah. Its the shias lacking the respect!!!

Stop lying now!

Sunni Scholars declared Imams of Ahl al-Bayt (as) 'Munkar' also claimed that they (as) were 'bad in hadith' and that they (as) had 'bad memory'

+ Sunni Scholars used to laugh at their hadith - Is this Respect? Yes and some of them (Sunni Scholars) claimed that Ahl al-Bayt (as) had deviated and invented things in Religion!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stop lying now!

Sunni Scholars declared Imams of Ahl al-Bayt (as) 'Munkar' also claimed that they (as) were 'bad in hadith' and that they (as) had 'bad memory'

+ Sunni Scholars used to laugh at their hadith - Is this Respect? Yes and some of them (Sunni Scholars) claimed that Ahl al-Bayt (as) had deviated and invented things in Religion!

I dont think I am the one lying here !!!!

what do you mean by Munkar?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Ibrahim,

We do not discriminate between the words of the Prophet (pbuh) and those of the Imaams (as). We believe that EVERYTHING taught by the Imaams (as) is from the Prophet (pbuh). So, your request for hadeeths about Imaamah from the Prophet (pbuh) is inapproprite. All the saheeh hadeeths I cited are from the Prophet (pbuh). Moreover, I actually did cite a saheeh report directly from the Prophet (pbuh), as you said.

As for your claim that you love the Shee‘ah Imaams (as), that is an apparent LIE (perhaps, unintentional). Just google “shia mahdi is the dajjal“ and see. Your sect dishonestly call our Twelfth Imaam (as) the dajjaal despite that the real dajjaal existed even during the Prophet‘s lifetime and has a different identity. Is that a sign of love? If I call Aboo Bakr the dajjaal, is that evidence of love for him?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Ibrahim,

We do not discriminate between the words of the Prophet (pbuh) and those of the Imaams (as). We believe that EVERYTHING taught by the Imaams (as) is from the Prophet (pbuh). So, your request for hadeeths about Imaamah from the Prophet (pbuh) is inapproprite. All the saheeh hadeeths I cited are from the Prophet (pbuh). Moreover, I actually did cite a saheeh report directly from the Prophet (pbuh), as you said.

As for your claim that you love the Shee‘ah Imaams (as), that is an apparent LIE (perhaps, unintentional). Just google “shia mahdi is the dajjal“ and see. Your sect dishonestly call our Twelfth Imaam (as) the dajjaal despite that the real dajjaal existed even during the Prophet‘s lifetime and has a different identity. Is that a sign of love? If I call Aboo Bakr the dajjaal, is that evidence of love for him?!

you cant apply to what one guy on google is doing to the entire sunni sect. for example the amount of abuse/vilification that I have seen regarding the sahabah on this website on sunni/shia forum is crazy - but I believe not ALL shias hate the sahabah - but MOST do judging by my conversations.

we sunnis love the shia imams like we believe we should - you love them like you believe you should. muslims love jesus pbuh and christians love him in a different way - we just have to agree to disagree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we sunnis love the shia imams like we believe we should - you love them like you believe you should. muslims love jesus pbuh and christians love him in a different way - we just have to agree to disagree

Yeah, so much for love! Your so-called "righetous Salaf" showed theor love for the Ahl al-Bayt (as) by cursing them on the minbar for 90 years! And your scholars have displayed love for the Ahl al-Bayt (as) by refusing to record their hadeeths, and by hiding Hadeeth al-Thaqalayn. And your internet warriors have displayed love for the Ahl al-Bayt (as) by calling their twelth the Dajjaal. Soooooo mcuh for love!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sunnis love the Holy Imams (as) so much that they put aside their other 'Imams' on fiqhi matters and all refer to Imam Jafar as Sadiq (as) for Islamic laws and rulings.

They love them (as) so much when it comes to choosing who was on Haqq during Maula Ali's (as) tenure as caliph they say his enemies were just as correct as he was.

They love them (as) so much some of them put (ra) after the poisoner of al Hassan (as) and killer of al Hussain (as).

They love the Imams (as) so much that they view the known enemies and haters of our Imams (as) as "reliable" and "trustworthy" narrators of hadeeth.

A very strange kind of love indeed.

ALI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, so much for love! Your so-called "righetous Salaf" showed theor love for the Ahl al-Bayt (as) by cursing them on the minbar for 90 years! And your scholars have displayed love for the Ahl al-Bayt (as) by refusing to record their hadeeths, and by hiding Hadeeth al-Thaqalayn. And your internet warriors have displayed love for the Ahl al-Bayt (as) by calling their twelth the Dajjaal. Soooooo mcuh for love!

You know this statement is not true. dont let your emotion cloud your judgement please. you are above this rhetoric !!!

Sunnis love the Holy Imams (as) so much that they put aside their other 'Imams' on fiqhi matters and all refer to Imam Jafar as Sadiq (as) for Islamic laws and rulings.

They love them (as) so much when it comes to choosing who was on Haqq during Maula Ali's (as) tenure as caliph they say his enemies were just as correct as he was.

They love them (as) so much some of them put (ra) after the poisoner of al Hassan (as) and killer of al Hussain (as).

They love the Imams (as) so much that they view the known enemies and haters of our Imams (as) as "reliable" and "trustworthy" narrators of hadeeth.

A very strange kind of love indeed.

ALI

sunnis believe that ali ra was on the 100% haqq during his khilafah.

now....I think the reason why sunnis have been particular when narrating from the the 11 imams is that there was alot of fabricated hadiths (rightly or wrongly I am just stating) but they never wold reject a sahih hadith !!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know this statement is not true. dont let your emotion cloud your judgement please. you are above this rhetoric !!!

You need to start reading your own books. How can you call undisputed history as "not true"? Are you not the emotional one here?

sunnis believe that ali ra was on the 100% haqq during his khilafah.

If that were the case, you would not love Mu'aawiyah so much or grant him paradise.

now....I think the reason why sunnis have been particular when narrating from the the 11 imams is that there was alot of fabricated hadiths (rightly or wrongly I am just stating) but they never wold reject a sahih hadith !!!!

Yeah, they had no reasons to avoid the hadeeths of Nawaasib and Kharijites, even Murjites and Israeli fabrications. But, the golden, pure words of the Ahl al-Bayt (as), they were afraid. Once again, soooooooo much for love.

Now, could you tell us why Sunnees have removed the Ahl al-Bayt (as) from the Salawaat, contrary to the Sunnah? They did that do out of love?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sunnis believe that ali ra was on the 100% haqq during his khilafah.

Really? You honestly believe this? Then join me brother in sending lana'ah on all the people who fought or opposed him during his tenure as caliph. We both agree he was 100% on Haqq and those who fought him were batil so these renegades are not worthy of Almighty Allah's (jjh) blessing.

I await your post on this confirming your lana'ah - a great moment in Shi'ah/Sunni unity.

ALI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really? You honestly believe this? Then join me brother in sending lana'ah on all the people who fought or opposed him during his tenure as caliph. We both agree he was 100% on Haqq and those who fought him were batil so these renegades are not worthy of Almighty Allah's (jjh) blessing.

I await your post on this confirming your lana'ah - a great moment in Shi'ah/Sunni unity.

ALI

I despise all those who despised ali ra and send "lanats" with full vigour on them.

whose side was aqeel bin abu talib ra on?

Edited by Ibrahim786

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Ibrahim,

Please stop pretending. I don‘t know why you are doing this.

Okay, please tell us how Sunnees send blessings upon the Prophet (pbuh):

1. Do Sunnees say “peace be upon him and his family/progeny“ or simply “peace be upon him“?

2. How did the Prophet (pbuh) that blessings be sent upon him?

I am waiting for your response.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Ibrahim,

Please stop pretending. I don‘t know why you are doing this.

Okay, please tell us how Sunnees send blessings upon the Prophet (pbuh):

1. Do Sunnees say “peace be upon him and his family/progeny“ or simply “peace be upon him“?

2. How did the Prophet (pbuh) that blessings be sent upon him?

I am waiting for your response.

1) Peace be upon him - (pbuh)

2) dont understand your question

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't that a stupid question to ask to someone who doesnt believe in Imaamah?

Well if something [imaamath] is absolutely and clearly mentioned in the Quran and you refuse to believe in it, then that is down to you. I don't think anybody can do anything about it, or wants to do anything about it, since nobody will be held responsible, in the period of Barzakh and on the day of judgement, on your behalf. EXCEPT YOU!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Sunnis pray this is exactly what we say in Tashahud (when you're completing your prayer).

"Allahuma sali ala Muhammad (SAW) wa ala aali Muhammad (SAW) kama salayta ala Ibrahim (A.S) wa ala aali Ibrahim (A.S), inaka hamidun maajid, Allahuma barik ala Muhammad (SAW) wa ala aali Muhammad (SAW) kama barakta ala Ibrahim (A.S) wa ala aali Ibrahim (A.S), inaka hamidun majid"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ Dagga,

Yes, you are correct. In tashahhud, Sunnees too send blessings upon the Prophet (pbuh) and the Ahl al-Bayt (as). HOWEVER, outside of the tashahhud, they always EXCLUDE the Ahl al-Bayt (as). Why? The Prophet (pbuh) ORDERED the whole Ummah to ALWAYS include the Ahl al-Bayt (as) in the Salawat/Darood. Why have Sunnees limited it to only the times of tashahhud?

Moreover, there is a huge controversy among the Sunnees over whether blessings should be sent upon the Ahl al-Bayt (as) in the tashahhud. Imaam al-Shaafi‘ee and ‘Allaamah al-Albaanee and a few others said that sending blessings upon the Ahl al-Bayt (as) in the tashahhud is obligatory while most of the other Sunnee scholars say NO!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have frequently written which made me Shia was a verse of Quran.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Yet you did not say which verse made you Shia. Please come back to your topic and tell us! http://www.shiachat....n-made-me-shia/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I dont agree about the theory of imamah however I do respect your beliefs. Sunnis respect shia imams as we love and respect them also - I am afraid the same cannot be said by the shias regarding the sahabah. Its the shias lacking the respect!!!

I appreciate you have mentioned the sahih hadiths and I will research and check your links but only in english I am afraid will do.

do you have any sahih hadiths directly from the prophet pbuh about imamah? I know you mentioned the imams narrating from the prophet pbuh. I dont mean to be stubborn or anything - sorry.

Who has written these Hadiths? What is the proof that the person who wrote these hadiths is authenticate? Who approved these corrupted hadiths, goverment?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...