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In the Name of God بسم الله

Would You Ever Hit A Woman?

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..really? So, lets start giving our own interpretation to verses of Quran.

Quran put so many restrictions, hence its some how a discouragement?

The reason so many threads get closed down is people love giving their own interpretations to verses or hadiths. Quran didnt come to make our lives easy. Remember, Banu Ummaya used to love doing these same things, something they dont like in Islam, lets put it the way they want to. Quran is for whole world. If you dont agree with something, just ignore it rather then giving your own interpretation.

This thread is almost close to going to trashpit.

The Quran says that it is made to be simple. It wasnt made to be obscure and esoteric, it was made simple so the average Joe could read it and get a basic level of information and understanding so they can live a life that was more in alignment with God than they would otherwise.

Edited by ~Ruqaya's Amal~
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Sounds like a bad bollywood film to me..

You two have any standards? She committed the crime against Ameer AL Mumineen and how did he deal with her? Follow his seerah and stop spreading Fitna..

I can't; I won't. I would feel a lowlife, a complete and total loser without dignity and honour if I hit my woman.

The Quran says that it is made to be simple. It wasnt made to be obscure and esoteric, it was made simple so the average Joe could read it and get a basic level of information and understanding so they can live a life that was more in alignment with God than they would otherwise.

This is the verse you are quoting with its commentary. You cannot derive laws from it unless you have the necessary credentials, like how you randomly connected dots from 3 different places and gave your reasoning.

Quran talks about polygamy, but there are strict rules against it, hence polygamy is discouraged.

[Shakir 54:17] And certainly We have made the Quran easy for remembrance, but is there anyone who will mind?

[Pooya/Ali Commentary 54:17]

While the Quran contains profundities of thought and subtleties of meaning; but so far a lessons of meekness, humility and willing surrender to Allah are to be deduced from it, there is no difficulty.

I hope i dont sound rude, but its just one thing that makes me bat crazy when Quran is interpreted wrong or its verses are thrown in an argument without realizing its meanings, just so one can win an argument. I agree that Quran can be understood by an average Joe, but they cannot use it to deduce laws. That is left for Imams (as) whose hadiths are used for clearification. Polygamy is not discouraged or encouraged, generally speaking. There are times when it can go both ways.

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Polygamy is not discouraged or encouraged, generally speaking. There are times when it can go both ways.

awaitign the 12th

million times I have posted fatwas of the scholars that say polygyny is mustahab in the general sense,,,

the author of tafseer almeezan allamah tabatabaei had this openion that its mustahab ( encouraged)

also alkhoie who says its encouraged even if you dont need it

also khamenie

shirazi

even we have a fatwa from sistani saying its mustahab

and many more

so on

I just cant belive after all these years of arguments and the countless times i pasted the fatwas you still are saying " polygyny is not recomended"

who is your scholar ?

please read before you make statements.

if polygamy was not mustahab then why did the prophets and imam practise it ? thier lifestyle is mustahab ....

if it was not mustahab it would not be the lifestyle of good people in heaven (7oor al3een) and the lifestyle of good people on earth...

kaniz:

who told oyu the prophet never hit aisha ???

i read reports where he gave her one or two

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My only reason to give this stuff is to help understand the readers, nothing personal alimohamad40:

"In Islam, the ideal marriage is the monogamous form of marriage. Limited polygyny is a provision approved by Islam for exceptional circumstances only; and that also with many stringent conditions" Source: http://www.al-islam.org/polygamy-marriages-prophet/ Under Monogamy & Polygny

These quotes are from book of Aya. Mutahhari (just so you know most Marja's that you post fatwas of were his students so his interpretation is pretty legit and i also believe the main reason all of them give those fatwas you post are based on reasons given in this book)

Source: http://www.al-islam.org/rightsofwomeninislam/ Chapter 11 Polygny. These are just few quotes to highlight some things, read the chapter to get complete picture.

"The point at issue is not whether monogamy is better than polygyny. There is no dispute about the matter that monogamy is better. Monogamy which means an undisturbed, secure family life, in other words, that the body and soul of each, the husband and the wife, are one for each other. It is evident that the spirit of matrimonial life which is oneness and unity is attained better and with more perfection with a single spouse"

"Do they not know that polygyny is the right of women and not part of rights of men, and has no connection with the comparative rights of men and women?"

I just quoted few things from the book, women and men should definitely read it to know their rights. The bottomline which i have always believed in the reason for polygny is its necessity at the level of society where women outnumber men (so it becomes their right to marry men) and there is a chance of immodesty and promiscuity.

And brother alimohammad i am quoting this for only you to realize that maybe you should view polygny differently:

"Those who have made polygyny a source of indulgence in sensuality have made the Islamic law an excuse for a misdeed. Society has the right to take them to task, penalize them, and take that excuse out of their hand." So technically by this we as a society can penalize you if your sole reason is to satisfy yourself.

You should also read how our Imams and Prophet were with their wives, which shows how much they cared about their rights, especially how Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) on his last days when he was bedridden used to get his bed carried to his wives when it was their turn.

“Anyone who has two wives and does not behave with them with justice and shows more inclination to one than the other, he will be resurrected on the Day of Judgement, and one side of his body will be dragged along the ground till at last he shall enter the Fire.” Under the section Justice, you should read it to know what counts as justice.

You should definitely read the whole book to understand what polygny actually is. I know for sure that this will not change your views at all (if not make it worse) but i tried and did my part.

Salam

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what a stupid question

Would you hit a woman ?

how can I hit my lord almighty ?

what kind of question is this?

ofcourse if she is being an abslute dog she would deserve a slap or two and this is common sense and has nothing to do with man or woman .

why do you worship your gender ???

why do you think that hitting a " WOMAN" is wrong all the time?? why do uyou insert the " Woman " in the sentence?? whats the relavance of the gender with this ?

and which religion do you follow ???

the quraan has a verse which says

" and for your wives whom you are afraid of thier noshoooz then advise them and if it failes then leave them and then if that also fails then hit them"

so if there is a situation of noshooz then hitting her is part of the religion and god's order.

if the man exhausts the advise and hajr then the next step that he is ordered to do is to hit her in accordance with god's order

do you know a book called " quraan" ? have you ever read this verse in it ?

Many men abuse this right. Which is really sad.

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At the time of khadeeja the prophet was boycotted and had no one so i dont think he cuold have married easily

when he had the chance he married

your argument about the monogomy for the superior wife is false because imam Ali married other women with ummulbaneen eventough ummulbaneen in not lower than fatima in the faith and status peace be upon both of them

also prophet abraham married hajar and sarah who are both from ahlulbait

also the muta that imam ali did wasnt it in fatimas time ?

also the men in ehaven will have many hoor al3een virgin females and i bet that makes you very bitter that god promised the men such a thing

Prophet(saww) could marry out of Bani Hashim as well,and boycott was of three years not of 25 years.

Secondly,Imam Ali(as) married Bibi Ummul Banin(as) after death of Bibi Fatima(as) so it does n't support your point.

Sarah(as) and Hajra(as) were equal in Eeman,both became mothers of Prophets,and no i won't be jealous of Hoors as there will only be justice in Heaven.Allah is sufficient to maintain it there.

Ali Mohammad,Where it is said Prophet(saww) hit ayesha?

Awaiting for 12th, very good,and balanced post ,MashAllah.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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At first, we must see if these ahadeeth are authentic or not. There is a famous sermon in Nahj-al-Balagha inside which is this sentence:

النسا نواقص العقول

Muslims and scholars try to justify it in different ways while they have forgotten an important point.

When you check this sermon, you see it is really weak. The main source of this sentence is a non-famous book which is lost and there is no access to it!! In another source, this sentence is said by Othman(not Imam Ali) when he is talking about Ayesha!!!

And when you investigate more, you see an extremely similar hadeeth (from the Prophet(s)) in sunnie books which is narrated by Abu Hurriara, the famous hadeeth inventor!

some hadeeths are fabricated due to clear contradiction with usool aldeen and gods justice and quraan

for example ones that say women are inherently bad contradict gods justice and contradicts the quraan so its rejected ,

but the concept of hitting as a punishment is a fiqh issue that does not contradict anything

can i ask a question: does death sentence apply to females or no ???

if yes which one is more severe death sentence or a slap on the face or a smack with a miswak (toothbrush) ?

so if you are going to say hitting is allways bad then you are implying that females can be criminals and get away with it without a scratch !!!!

This is representetive of "gender worship" and contradicts justice...

also the hadeeths that give instructions about the methods of hitting are far too many

Prophet(saww) could marry out of Bani Hashim as well,and boycott was of three years not of 25 years.

for gods sake he was generally boycotted in his life and an orphan it wasnt only the embargo of shi3b aby talib that am talking

also there are other possibilities like lack of availiable suitable females

maybe all the women around him at that time were identified by him that they will harm khadeeeja due to thier jealuosy so he tried to protect her from thier evil and harm as he found no woman that is good enough to not harm her.

The main point is that his aim was to marry more than one wife and the proof is when he found suitable women he did so

the end result is what counts not his initial condition where he was actually trying to get to the end result..

Secondly,Imam Ali(as) married Bibi Ummul Banin(as) after death of Bibi Fatima(as) so it does n't support your point.

you dont get it do you???

imam Ali married other women with Ummulbaneen, ummulbaneen was also at very high level of faith just like fatima ( AS) so why did Imam Ali marry other women with ummulbaneen ???

this proves that your theory is faulty cause you were saying if one wife is good he should not bring worse women along with her ...

also zainab had cowives with al fadhl ( zainab al hawraa (as) was a cowife)

Sarah(as) and Hajra(as) were equal in Eeman,both became mothers of Prophets,and no i won't be jealous of Hoors as there will only be justice in Heaven.Allah is sufficient to maintain it there.

we dont know what level of faith they had but they are both praised and specially sarah who is praised by the quraan and counted as one memeber of ahlulbait and from her most of the prophets ,,, hajar also is our mother and the mother of prophet mohamad

this means your theory is wrong,,, good women can also be cowives

i think fatima alzahra and khadeeja were really wishing and hoping and had the ambition to have cowives or to be cowives of good women because that would mean unity with more people and stronger family where they can help eachother,, i dont think they were jealous and selfish as imam Ali says the ejalousy of the female is kufr

i think they would have been very happy to see thier husband able to shelter and guide and feed anoother woman and her chidlren.....

have you nto read sourat al insaan or (aldahr) where they stayed three days without food other than water and kept giving thier share to others until that amazing verse came down prising them to eth highest levels of sucess .

but if life circusmtances didnt allow them it doesnt mean they chose not to as you would hope to hear.

Ali Mohammad,Where it is said Prophet(saww) hit ayesha?

Awaiting for 12th, very good,and balanced post ,MashAllah.

in sunnie sources it said that the prophet hit her

waiting for the 12th imam:

mutaharis openion is nto representetive of islam but rather the sunnah of the prophet and the imams and i gave you the openions of 5 different scholars who say polygyny is mustahab

tabatabaie

alkhooie

khamenie

sadeq shirazi

and many more

but shaheed mutahari is not a marji3 he didnt decleare himself as one

he made very good points in his book " womens rights in islam" but he made mistakes too

salaam

salaam

Edited by alimohamad40
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(bismillah)

can i ask a question: does death sentence apply to females or no ???

if yes which one is more severe death sentence or a slap on the face or a smack with a miswak (toothbrush) ?

(salam)

I thought that the hitting could not be done on the face? [or am I wrong?]

Edited by Shia_Debater
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(bismillah)

(salam)

I thought that the hitting could not be done on the face? [or am I wrong?]

i dont know but am not discussing the how ,,, thank god i was never tested with it so i didnt need to find out yet but am no talking about the how...

but am sure tehre are certain circusmtances whch might warrant hitting even a slap on the face

let me give you an example: if they show in the movie a woman killed the chidlren then the husband slapped her would anyone feel sorry for the woman?

so to say nothing woudl warrant hitting the wife is false

i heard sunnie hadeeths that say: "do not hit the face becasue god created adam in his image" but this hadeeth is shirk and tajseem and was endorsed by the imam of tajseem ibn taymyah

but maybe there are other hadeeths i dont know its good if some one explains this ...

salaam

Edited by alimohamad40
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I think what brother alimohamad40 is referring to is the following hadith:

Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 2127

Muhammad b. Qais said (to the people): Should I not narrate to you (a Hadith of the Holy Prophet) on my authority and on the authority of my mother? We thought that he meant the mother who had given him birth. He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was 'Aisha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'Aisha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you? She said: Whatsoever the people conceal, Allah will know it. He said: Gabriel came to me when you saw me. He called me and he concealed it from you. I responded to his call, but I too concealed it from you (for he did not come to you), as you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep, and I did not like to awaken you, fearing that you may be frightened. He (Gabriel) said: Your Lord has commanded you to go to the inhabitants of Baqi' (to those lying in the graves) and beg pardon for them. I said: Messenger of Allah, how should I pray for them (How should I beg forgiveness for them)? He said: Say, Peace be upon the inhabitants of this city (graveyard) from among the Believers and the Muslims, and may Allah have mercy on those who have gone ahead of us, and those who come later on, and we shall, God willing, join you.

I think the word that was translated as 'struck' can also mean 'push'.

also zainab had cowives with al fadhl ( zainab al hawraa (as) was a cowife)

Which Zaynab was Al-Fadhl married to?

Edited by Haydar Husayn
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Ali Mohammad your answer is purely based on conjectures.Prophet(saww) could marry,He had cousins as well.

You said,He was afraid other women will harm Khadija(as)?? When He married ayesha,did n't He know she will be jaelous of Syeda Fatima(as)? But still He married her? Because Allah is the protector.

And based on your theory,none of the men should practice polygamy as co-wives of this age can harm each other out of jealousy.

How do you know what Imam Ali(as) and Prophet(saww) 's daughter were thinking? if He wanted to take more women ,what could prevent Him?'' they were ambitious to have co-wives'' ,wow how do you know??

after all both Prophet(saww) and Imam Ali(as) married after the death of their first wives,suddenly circumstances became suitable?

The reason was only one they could n't do injustice even in the matter of love,and they could n't love any woman equal to Bibi Khadija(as),and Bibi Fatima(as),simple otherwise they were never short of women.

And which Zainab(as) you are talking about,and who was al fadl??

And you said in my thread that khums is invented by people,so why are you giving fatwas of maraji again and again? They do ghuluw and invent fake charity system as per you,so these two crimes should be enough.

As i said before,disagreement with them is something else but when someone is considered ghaali,he becomes mushrik,so how can you apply fatwas of those who are 'mushrikeen' for you? its beyond comprehension.

Anyways,don't start discussing Khums and Tawassul here,just tell why you use their fatwas for justifying your means? When they are 'ghaalis'?

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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Salaam

Kaniz

Your theory is wrong justice of love is not needed . Imam ali married other women with lower faith levels that ummulbaneen with her so why wasn't he worried about his deeper love for her and hence the inequality in love?

Why wasn't yacoob worried about his deeper love for rachael and he still married four?

Why wasn't imam Hassan worried about living his favorite wife more than the one that killed him?

Zainab Alhawra the sister of alhussain Alshaheed aba Aba abdillah her husbands name was alfadhl. Her condition in her marriage was to allow her to follow the Hussain it wasn't to stop him from marrying other wives. She had cowives.

I didn't say khoms was invented I said the concept of sayed by bloodline is possibly invented by the abbasides to rule under the excuse of being from the bloodline of the prophet

I have a problem with half of the khoms which constitutes the biggest revenue going to "Sayers" who are a small minority

And about Thier gullo doesn't make all Thier verdicts wrong also am not aware which ones believe in wylayah Takwynya apart from Khoomainy and shirazi

Edited by alimohamad40
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Salaam

Kaniz

Your theory is wrong justice of love is not needed . Imam ali married other women with lower faith levels that ummulbaneen with her so why wasn't he worried about his deeper love for her and hence the inequality in love?

Why wasn't yacoob worried about his deeper love for rachael and he still married four?

Why wasn't imam Hassan worried about living his favorite wife more than the one that killed him?

Zainab Alhawra the sister of alhussain Alshaheed aba Aba abdillah her husbands name was alfadhl. Her condition in her marriage was to allow her to follow the Hussain it wasn't to stop him from marrying other wives. She had cowives.

I didn't say khoms was invented I said the concept of sayed by bloodline is possibly invented by the abbasides to rule under the excuse of being from the bloodline of the prophet

I have a problem with half of the khoms which constitutes the biggest revenue going to "Sayers" who are a small minority

And about Thier gullo doesn't make all Thier verdicts wrong also am not aware which ones believe in wylayah Takwynya apart from Khoomainy and shirazi

W/salam,

Astaghfaar which history you read? Lady Zainab(as) married Abdullah bin Jaffer(as),not Al Fadl.

Bibi Ummul banin(as) no matter is higher in faith,but was equally dear to her Husband as other wives were,but He never loved anyone equal to Syeda Fatima(as).Yaqoob had one more wife sister of Rachel so one could be more dear to him, but not in faith you can say they were unequal,and as much as i know there were two,where did you read 4? Rachel died when her children were too young,and he was made to marry her sister by deceit ,read the full story then speak.

Imam Hassan(as) had other pious wives too along with Bibi Farwa(as),so did n't matter if there was one wrong one added,they were nine on different levels but we never found Him saying ''i never had wife as this one or that one'' none of the other Imams(as) ever said so,but Prophet(saww) said that ''I never had a wife like Khadija(as)'' same were the feelings of Imam Ali(as), so what does it shows? He could n't give anyone a love like He gave Her.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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You are unbelievable just read what your saying

Your theory of the prohibition of combining two wives of different faith levels and hence different level of love is a false theory

Equality in love is not required as the imam said only the material equality is compulsory . If equality of love was required then it would be impossible for any man to combine between two women of different levels of faith as Allah says in the quraan

Youll never be equal (in love) between multiple women even if you tried ur best so (do take multiple wives) but do not divert fully to a level where you would leave one of them hanging.

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Yes you will never be equal,so avoid the thing that can lead to injustice.

Have you ever found Prophet(saww) loving one woman more than the other after Bibi Khadija(as),if this Ayat meant inequality in love and it applies to all men,then do you find this inequality being practiced by Masoomeen(as)? If this inequality is allowed?

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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Kaniz

Yes the inequality in love is not required that's what the verse says and that's what the hadeeth says and that's what Tafseer almizan says and that's what the logic says because love is not a material thing that you can quantify and the wives could be good or bad and you have to love accordingly

That's why yacoob loved rachael more than the other and that's why prophet Mohamad loved um salama more than Aisha and Hafsa and imam Hasan loved um farwa more than Juda and imam ali loved ummulbaneen more than some others . It's in accordance to Thier actions . Why di u think yacoob loved Yousof and Benjamin more? It's the same.

Edited by alimohamad40
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Yousaf(as) and Benjamin(as) were much higher in virtue than their brothers.

Imam Ali(as) never loved Umm ul Banin(as) equal to Syeda Fatima(as),Prophet Muhammad(saww)'s love for bibi Umme Salma(as) was not equal to His love for bibi Khadija(as).

The inequality in love which does n't lead to injustice is something else and love which is at the level of 'ishq' is something else,which can't let one to be just to the other person as He is to His Beloved,but i don't think so i can make you understand this,you must have n't experienced that.

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kaniz

give us your openion about these hadeeths , they contradict your claims 180 degrees ,,, are they fabricated or your claims are false ?

Having multiple wives is an attribute of the Prophets because it is a sign of successful leadership.

One haddith of imam redha says:

in the white rooster there are five traits from the traits of the prophets:

knowledge of the prayer times, jelaousy, generousity, bravery and many wives

reference wasael alshia volume 20 page 152-157

another hadeeth by imam redha

three things are from the sunnah of the prophets, perfume , trimming the hair and many wives

imam sadiq said :

no possesiveness is allwoed except to men. possessiveness from women is jelaousy and possesiveness is just for men.. This is because a woman is only allowed a single man where as men are allowed four wives, and Allah is too generous that he would allow for them jealousy, while it is hallal for a man to have three wives other than her.

reference wasael alshia volume 20 page 152-157

imam assadiq said :

indeed Allah the exhaulted and glofiried has not given (or allowed) posessiveness to woman. EVIL women are posessive , and the believing ( mumin) women are not. however Allah the exhaulted and glorified has given ( allowed) posessiveness to men, because it is allowed for a man to have up to four wives or his mulk alyameen girls, whereas a woman is only allowed her husband. therefore if she desires another husband alongside of him, then she is a adulteress before Allah.

reference wasael alshia volume 20 page 152-157

Imam ali in nahjulbalagha

Jealousy of the female kind if kufr and jelaousy of the male kind is emaan

sharh nahjulbalagha for ibn haitham albahrany he expains it like this

" jealousy of the female prevents the sharing of one man by multiple females which is a lawful act, hence this constitutes a prohibition of the lawful and therefore it is equated to kufr. Jelaousy of the male prevents the sharing of one female by multiple males, which is a forbidden act therefore preventing whats forbidden is virtous and hence equated to emaan"

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Ali Mohammad,

first of all give us the chain of narrators and authenticity etc,as we are generally demanded by our opponents,secondly here the sunnah is being told not its been commanded to do so.And please send the Arabic version as well as some people translate these 'many wives' as women only.So it can be generalized as they liked women.

Moreover many wives can be out of muta before permanent marriage,and women can be slave girls too.

And was Sarah commiting kufr nauzbillah? Its a very well known fact that she out of jealousy send Hajra(as) into lonely desert.So what was it?

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Yes you will never be equal,so avoid the thing that can lead to injustice.

1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Nuh b. Shu`ayb and Muhammad b. al-Hasan. He said: Ibn Abi ‘l-`Awja’ asked Hisham b. al-Hakam. He said to him: Is Allah not wise? He said: Of course, rather He is the wisest of the wise. He said: So inform me about His ÚÒæÌá saying “so marry such women as seem good to you, two, three, four; but if you fear you will not be equitable, then one” (4:3) is this not obligatory? He said: Yea. He said: So inform me about His ÚÒæÌá saying “You will not be able to be equitable between your wives, be you ever so eager; yet do not be altogether partial.” (4:129) What kind of wise one would speak like this? So he did not have an answer, so he travelled to Medina to Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. And he said: O Hisham, in neither the time of hajj nor `umra? He said: Yes, may I be made your ransom, for a matter that has distressed me. Ibn Abi ‘l-`Awja’ asked me about an issue about which there is nothing with me. He said: And what is it? He said: So I told him the story. So Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said to him: As to His ÚÒæÌá saying “so marry such women as seem good to you, two, three, four; but if you fear you will not be equitable, then one”, it means in maintenance (an-nafaqa). And as to His ÚÒæÌá saying “You will not be able to be equitable between your wives, be you ever so eager; yet do not be altogether partial so that you leave her as it were suspended” it means in love (al-muwadda). He said: So when Hisham came with this answer, and informed him, he said: By Allah, this is not from you.

http://www.tashayyu....rmony/chapter-7

1 – Muhammad b. al-Hasan by his isnad from al-Husayn b. Sa`id from Ibn Abi `Umayr from Hammad from al-Halabi from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: He was asked about the man who has two wives, one of them being more beloved to him than the other, is it (allowed) for him to favor one of them over the other? He said: Yes, he favors some of them over some so long as it is not four (- al-hadith)

2 – And from him from Safwan b. Yahya from `Abdullah b. Muskan from al-Hasan b. Ziyad from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã in a hadith wherein he said: I asked him about the man who has two wives, one of them being more beloved to him than the other, is it (allowed) for him to favor her with something? He said: Yes, (it is allowed) for him to come to her three nights and (to) the other one a (single) night, for it is (allowed) for him to marry four women. So (as to) his two nights, he puts them wherever he wants – until he said: And it is (allowed) for the man to favor his women, some of them over some, so long as it is not four.

3 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn by his isnad from al-`Ala from Muhammad b. Muslim. He said: I asked him about the man who has two wives, and one of them is more beloved to him from the other. He said: (It is allowed) for him to come to her three nights, and the other a (single) night. So if he wants to marry four women, there is a (single) night for each woman. So consequently, it is (allowed) for him to favor some of them over some so long as it is not four.

4 – And in al-`Ilal from Muhammad b. al-Hasan from as-Saffar from Ahmad b. Muhammad from al-Hasan b. `Ali b. Faddal from `Ali b. `Uqba from a man from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: I said to him: The man who has two wives, is (it allowed) for him to favor one of them with three nights? He said: Yes.

http://www.tashayyu....rmony/chapter-1

Have you ever found Prophet(saww) loving one woman more than the other after Bibi Khadija(as),if this Ayat meant inequality in love and it applies to all men,then do you find this inequality being practiced by Masoomeen(as)? If this inequality is allowed?

So you think the Prophet (pbuh) loved Hafsa as much as Umm Salama (ra)?

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Ali Mohammad,

first of all give us the chain of narrators and authenticity etc,as we are generally demanded by our opponents,secondly here the sunnah is being told not its been commanded to do so.And please send the Arabic version as well as some people translate these 'many wives' as women only.So it can be generalized as they liked women.

Moreover many wives can be out of muta before permanent marriage,and women can be slave girls too.

And was Sarah commiting kufr nauzbillah? Its a very well known fact that she out of jealousy send Hajra(as) into lonely desert.So what was it?

Here are several strong narrations about this topic.

http://realtashayyu.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/womanising-allowed.html#comment-form

Though it is a bit rich coming from you, as most of the time, you don't source your claims, or you found them on an old thread from shiachat, and they are from books that in some cases don't even exist (like the kulayini one)

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1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from Nuh b. Shu`ayb and Muhammad b. al-Hasan. He said: Ibn Abi ‘l-`Awja’ asked Hisham b. al-Hakam. He said to him: Is Allah not wise? He said: Of course, rather He is the wisest of the wise. He said: So inform me about His عزوجل saying “so marry such women as seem good to you, two, three, four; but if you fear you will not be equitable, then one” (4:3) is this not obligatory? He said: Yea. He said: So inform me about His عزوجل saying “You will not be able to be equitable between your wives, be you ever so eager; yet do not be altogether partial.” (4:129) What kind of wise one would speak like this? So he did not have an answer, so he travelled to Medina to Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. And he said: O Hisham, in neither the time of hajj nor `umra? He said: Yes, may I be made your ransom, for a matter that has distressed me. Ibn Abi ‘l-`Awja’ asked me about an issue about which there is nothing with me. He said: And what is it? He said: So I told him the story. So Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام said to him: As to His عزوجل saying “so marry such women as seem good to you, two, three, four; but if you fear you will not be equitable, then one”, it means in maintenance (an-nafaqa). And as to His عزوجل saying “You will not be able to be equitable between your wives, be you ever so eager; yet do not be altogether partial so that you leave her as it were suspended” it means in love (al-muwadda). He said: So when Hisham came with this answer, and informed him, he said: By Allah, this is not from you.

http://www.tashayyu....rmony/chapter-7

1 – Muhammad b. al-Hasan by his isnad from al-Husayn b. Sa`id from Ibn Abi `Umayr from Hammad from al-Halabi from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: He was asked about the man who has two wives, one of them being more beloved to him than the other, is it (allowed) for him to favor one of them over the other? He said: Yes, he favors some of them over some so long as it is not four (- al-hadith)

2 – And from him from Safwan b. Yahya from `Abdullah b. Muskan from al-Hasan b. Ziyad from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام in a hadith wherein he said: I asked him about the man who has two wives, one of them being more beloved to him than the other, is it (allowed) for him to favor her with something? He said: Yes, (it is allowed) for him to come to her three nights and (to) the other one a (single) night, for it is (allowed) for him to marry four women. So (as to) his two nights, he puts them wherever he wants – until he said: And it is (allowed) for the man to favor his women, some of them over some, so long as it is not four.

3 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn by his isnad from al-`Ala from Muhammad b. Muslim. He said: I asked him about the man who has two wives, and one of them is more beloved to him from the other. He said: (It is allowed) for him to come to her three nights, and the other a (single) night. So if he wants to marry four women, there is a (single) night for each woman. So consequently, it is (allowed) for him to favor some of them over some so long as it is not four.

4 – And in al-`Ilal from Muhammad b. al-Hasan from as-Saffar from Ahmad b. Muhammad from al-Hasan b. `Ali b. Faddal from `Ali b. `Uqba from a man from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: I said to him: The man who has two wives, is (it allowed) for him to favor one of them with three nights? He said: Yes.

http://www.tashayyu....rmony/chapter-1

So you think the Prophet (pbuh) loved Hafsa as much as Umm Salama (ra)?

My question again if its only inequality in love which Allah is mentioning in Quran then why Prophet(saww) and Imam Ali(as) refrained from re marrying in the lives of first wives?

Ok though Prophet(saww)'s love was not equal for Umme Salma(as) and hafsa,but did He become inequal in His behaviour? No.But if Bibi Khadija(as) was alive He could n't be same for all wives so when one's love start effecting His dealing with others it must be refrained.

Here are several strong narrations about this topic.

http://realtashayyu....ml#comment-form

Though it is a bit rich coming from you, as most of the time, you don't source your claims, or you found them on an old thread from shiachat, and they are from books that in some cases don't even exist (like the kulayini one)

But its a bit poor coming from you,i mostly gave references except few occasions where i don't remember them,but i don't repeatedly mention those things whose sources are skipped from my mind,but this guy AM keep mentioning them in caps lock so he must know their authenticity as its his favorite topic.

Which old thread i referred to? Please paste a proof here,that i found all of my arguments on old threads.

Which kulayni's reference? Will you mind reminding me? I gave you numerous references for numerous things,you found them all baseless? And i don't know which kulayni thing you are talking about.

Ok what is your group's source just a blogs of 3 SC members,always copy paste material from them,do you have your own study or research? If not then do please so you may re evaluate your ideologies.

There is no harm in visiting and taking ideas from blogs but these are the source where all your knowledge is coming from,anyways this is not my way of arguing with someone but your off topic remark forced me to do so.

And don't simply refer us to blog but tell us was Sarah(as) commiting kufr then?

Yes i have seen this blog,i was right its 'women' mentioned in narrations not many wives as Ali Mohammad claimed.Women could be slave girls,they can be muta wives in present age,how it can be alluded towards polygamy only?

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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Moreover i am not in much favor to check the chain of narrators every time if it is getting matched with Quran,and coming from reliable source,but i asked him to provide because i found the narration before with the word 'women' not the many wives that is why i got skeptical, and same is mentioned on realtashayuu,so i was right.

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My question again if its only inequality in love which Allah is mentioning in Quran then why Prophet(saww) and Imam Ali(as) refrained from re marrying in the lives of first wives?

Ok though Prophet(saww)'s love was not equal for Umme Salma(as) and hafsa,but did He become inequal in His behaviour? No.But if Bibi Khadija(as) was alive He could n't be same for all wives so when one's love start effecting His dealing with others it must be refrained.

If you are so happy with your first wife that you have no desire to take another one, which would force you to have to spend at least one night in four with her, then why would you take another wife? I think it would be rather strange to be married to one of the best women to have ever lived (such as Khadija or Fatima) and then want to take another wife, unless there was some serious need. However, this doesn't mean that in general there is anything wrong with having several wives.As long as you are capable of distributing the time properly and can afford to give them all sufficient maintenance. It is not required to love them all equally, but they must still all be treated with love and kindness since that is how Muslims must always treat their wives.

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If you are so happy with your first wife that you have no desire to take another one, which would force you to have to spend at least one night in four with her, then why would you take another wife? I think it would be rather strange to be married to one of the best women to have ever lived (such as Khadija or Fatima) and then want to take another wife, unless there was some serious need. However, this doesn't mean that in general there is anything wrong with having several wives.As long as you are capable of distributing the time properly and can afford to give them all sufficient maintenance. It is not required to love them all equally, but they must still all be treated with love and kindness since that is how Muslims must always treat their wives.

Yes i agree with you here on almost all your points.

If one really loves one woman a lot that he feels no desire then why does he need to do so? Bibi Fatima(as) was Masooma but Bibi Khadija(as) gained her status by Her actions,so if someone has extraordinarily special and loving wife,he will have no urge of marrying again.

I also agree that polygamy is not forbidden as long as there is a justice,and you must know how hard it is for today's men ,their unequal love does n't remain in their heart,and respect,but it effects their actions too.They start discrimination to their favorite one,gives one official status whereas consider other a source of disgrace,they hide their other marriage,visit her when they are free from the responsibility of first family.The children of the other one remains deprived,can't spend time with their father,can't be in touch with their paternal side,even can't address him father before his first one.And there are countless,endless injustices inflict upon the second wives and their families.You must be aware of those things.These are part and parcel of polygamy.And even if men don't conceal,nagging from both sides can take away his peace as well.

What my point was,brother AM40 tries to portray that its must on every man to practice polygamy like its a sort of Ibadat,he never goes much deep into detail of justice as he goes into its 'recommendations'.Men take these half cooked things wrongly they think polygamy is their right but let the rights of others vanish into air,so why one side of picture is shown only? It should be discussed in balanced way,without elevating it too high in place than it actually is.Infact you can see the Imams(as) keep reducing the number of their wives as compare to Prophet(saww),and First Two Imams(as).

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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Salaam

Regarding Khadijah and Fatima the prophets marry out of responsibility so even if he prefers to spend more of his 4 nights with khadeeja considering the amount of benefit he would not ignore the responsibility had there been a woman that needed him.

Also the prophets work to promote certain lifestyle because then it becomes example.

If this theory about the idea that you can not and should not combine between a wife that has a very high level of faith and an ordinary woman was true then imam ali wouldn't marry other wives along with ummulbaneen would he?

Yacoob also wouldn't marry four when his preference was for rachael

Imam Hassan wouldn't marry Juda along with um farwa and prophet wouldn't marry Aisha along with um salama .

Regarding the story of Sarah it's true that had she done what you and the isralites are accusing her off then it would be kufr as imam ali stated but the reality is far from that as she is praised by the quraan as a member of Ahlulbait.

Lastly kanIz Since you reject the hadeeth and say that it's mistranslated are you an Arabic speaker? And can you give us the proper translation?

And let's forget the hadeeth I give you a small challenge can you do the Tafseer of the verse that talks about the equality of love?

The one that says : you can never be equal between the women even if you tried your best.

After god makes it clear that men can not be equal why does he then turn around and tell them to Mary multiple wives in the same verse? If equality of love was a requirement as you claim then why wouldn't god tell the men to marry only one to avoid the problem?

Just tell us what is god telling the men to do in that verse?

Tell me if my translation is wrong.

You would never be equal between multiple women even if you tried your best so (do marry multiple wives) and do not divert fully to a level where you leave one of them hanging (one of your multiple wives)

So what is this verse telling us in the case of not achieving the equality in love ? To marry or not to marry?

Isn't the fact that the verse says to still marry even in the absence of equality in love showing that the equality in love is not a requirement?

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4_3.png

Sahih International

And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice].

That is the true translation so stop twisting words and adding brackets,where diversion and hanging has been mentioned?

I did n't reject Hadees but the translation,the word Nissa is being used not Azwaaj and even a non native Arab Muslim knows what these words mean?

Bring the Arabic texts of Ahadees here and check for yourself.

The word 'Khiftum' has been used in Ayat that if you fear that you can't do justice then suffice on one,and that is what happens in most of such cases of polygamy if not all.

So Allah is giving cautions for it.

And please don't address them as Khadeeja(as) and Fatima(as) simply,either call Lady or insert (as) or Alaihum assalam after their names.

And the equality of Faith was not being discussed above,read carefully.

Wassalam.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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Lol am not even talking about this verse.

This verse is talking about the materialistic equality Which is required. am talking about the other verse relating to the equality in love which is not required and is impossible to achieve.

Am talking about 4:129. Not 4:3

Please bring 4:129 and explain it to us and reconcile it with 4:3

Edited by alimohamad40
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