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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why Do Shias Curse Sahabis?(more Qs Too)

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Salam,

According to popular Shia belief, Umar (ra) Abu Bakr (ra) and Usman (ra) became heretics after the demise of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) and even go as far as cursing them regularly. I ask, what proof do you have of their heresy? Let me answer some of your possible responses:

1: They went to Saqifa instead of mourning the death of the Prophet (s.a.w.)

A. What would you have them do? there was unrest in Arabia with 4 fake prophets, hordes of rebelling tribes, if they started mourning like Ashura head banging festivals then Makkah would have been overrun and Islam would have never gained momentum.

2. Umar broke Fatima Zahra (r.a.)'s rib and killed her and threatened Ali to burn his house down if he didn't take oath at Abu Bakr's hand.

A. Would any self respecting man allow his wife's rib to be broken? We Sunnis admire Ali (ra) as AsadUllah (lion of God) and if anyone had attacked his wife he would certainly not have done nothing. Further if the other 3 Caliphs usurped Ali's caliphate why didn't he act against them and if Umar (ra) threatened him surely he would have taken action.

3. Ali was the first true Caliph

A. Ali was a great companion and we agree with Ghadir khumm but the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) also said "were there a prophet to come after me, He surely would be Umar." (Sahih Bukhari)

4. All the Caliphs before Ali (ra) were corrupt.

A. Let me give some food for thought:-

Yazid was corrupt so Ali, Hassan and Hussain resisted him and were martyred in one way or another, So if Umar, Uthman and Abu Bakr were not true Caliphs surely AsadUllah and his sons would have resisted them...?

5. Ghadir Khumm justifies Calling Ali Moula;

A. Abdullah Ibn Saba and his followers did that when Ali (ra.) was alive.... why don't you check what He did to them? and Ali sought Help from Allah. He didn't seek help from himself... so why do you, why not seek help from the same God who elevated Ali(ra) to such greatness?

6. Umar(RA) was a true Mushriq

A. During persecution in Makkah the Holy Prophet (pbuh) prayed to Allah to make either Abu Jahl or Omar Muslim.. who became one? Umar... He was favoured by Allah and cannot have been a Mushriq by heart afterwards. Also, Umar (ra) introduced Ijtihad, (Jurisprudence) and later Usuli Ithna'a Ashariya'a adopted that. So they adopted teachings of a Kafir?

7. Present Quran read by Sunni's is Uthmanic version where extra verses criticizing the Quraish were emitted, also 1 whole Para is missing;

A. Any evidence of this absurd claim..??

Please post your answers to clear any misconceptions b/w Sunni and Shia, the reason of unrest b/w Sunni and Shia is mainly due to disrespect of one another so please reply in a civilised way,

Allah be with us all

Wa'Salam

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A1. first decide was it because of wht u say or was it cuz of this hadess which is in ur books .. ""Whoever Doesn't know his imam of his time and dies, has died as if he has died during ignorance age or as an atheist""

A2. we have made a diff post for that but to make long story short .... Prophet phuh told the lion of Allah to have patience and mashallah imam Ali followed Prophet's words to the fullest extent.

( He gave a famous speech where he explained why he had to make certain gesture that seemed conciliatory. Read Nahjul Balagha Khutbah ash-Shiqshiqiyy Ali(as) said Abu Bakr dressed himself with the khilafah being fully aware of the crime and sins he committed.)

A3 (Sahih Bukhari) ????? this books ??? -> why do u believe in this book n how come all its hadees are true --there is only one book tht is shahi for us the shia n thts the quran ...

A4. Yazid was open sinner ....the others played politics ...they showed that they where good .....

A5 Calling Ali Moula; wht is moula to you """"frnd """???? to whom i m frnd ali is frnd ...(does it have any logic )use ur brains ...dint rasooallaah call ya ali /

A6. Read books of history omar use n take help from ali (as) he dint know any thing ... ali helped him but not cuz he was his frnd or he liked him but to save islam .... Omar himself said many times, If it wasn't for Ali, Omar would have perished.”

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Salam

(bismillah)

wa alaykum as-salaam wa rahmatullah

I'll comment on some of the points I have some knowledge on insha'Allah

3. Ali was the first true Caliph

A. Ali was a great companion and we agree with Ghadir khumm but the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) also said "were there a prophet to come after me, He surely would be Umar." (Sahih Bukhari)

So why was Abu Bakr made caliph first?

4. All the Caliphs before Ali (ra) were corrupt.

A. Let me give some food for thought:-

Yazid was corrupt so Ali, Hassan and Hussain resisted him and were martyred in one way or another, So if Umar, Uthman and Abu Bakr were not true Caliphs surely AsadUllah and his sons would have resisted them...?

Imam Ali [as] and Imam Hassan [as] were not alive in the time Yazid [la] was caliph. Imam Hassan [as] signed a peace treaty with Mu`awiya [la] when he was alive, and Imam Hussain [as] did not rise against Mu`awiya [la] which goes to show that corrupt caliphs aren't always going to be resisted by the A'imma [as] through wars.

5. Ghadir Khumm justifies Calling Ali Moula;

A. Abdullah Ibn Saba and his followers did that when Ali (ra.) was alive.... why don't you check what He did to them? and Ali sought Help from Allah. He didn't seek help from himself... so why do you, why not seek help from the same God who elevated Ali(ra) to such greatness?

Abdullah ibn Saba [la] claimed that Imam Ali [as] was God [nautho'billah] not maula.

7. Present Quran read by Sunni's is Uthmanic version where extra verses criticizing the Quraish were emitted, also 1 whole Para is missing;

A. Any evidence of this absurd claim..??

Any evidence of this absurd claim of yours? [that according to you we believe that the extra verses criticizing the quraysh were emitted and that 1 whole para is missing]

Please post your answers to clear any misconceptions b/w Sunni and Shia, the reason of unrest b/w Sunni and Shia is mainly due to disrespect of one another so please reply in a civilised way,

Alhamdulillah I think I was civilised in my responses, and Jazakum Allah Khair for being civilised in your questions

Allah be with us all

Wa'Salam

Ma`asalaama

Edited by Shia_Debater
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A1. first decide was it because of wht u say or was it cuz of this hadess which is in ur books .. ""Whoever Doesn't know his imam of his time and dies, has died as if he has died during ignorance age or as an atheist""

A2. we have made a diff post for that but to make long story short .... Prophet phuh told the lion of Allah to have patience and mashallah imam Ali followed Prophet's words to the fullest extent.

( He gave a famous speech where he explained why he had to make certain gesture that seemed conciliatory. Read Nahjul Balagha Khutbah ash-Shiqshiqiyy Ali(as) said Abu Bakr dressed himself with the khilafah being fully aware of the crime and sins he committed.)

A3 (Sahih Bukhari) ????? this books ??? -> why do u believe in this book n how come all its hadees are true --there is only one book tht is shahi for us the shia n thts the quran ...

A4. Yazid was open sinner ....the others played politics ...they showed that they where good .....

A5 Calling Ali Moula; wht is moula to you """"frnd """???? to whom i m frnd ali is frnd ...(does it have any logic )use ur brains ...dint rasooallaah call ya ali /

A6. Read books of history omar use n take help from ali (as) he dint know any thing ... ali helped him but not cuz he was his frnd or he liked him but to save islam .... Omar himself said many times, If it wasn't for Ali, Omar would have perished.”

Why Do you copy and paste Questions from other sites?

all answers are they you can search for it and have their answers in this site with patience.

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Salam,

According to popular Shia belief, Umar (ra) Abu Bakr (ra) and Usman (ra) became heretics after the demise of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) and even go as far as cursing them regularly. I ask, what proof do you have of their heresy? Let me answer some of your possible responses:

1: They went to Saqifa instead of mourning the death of the Prophet (s.a.w.)

A. What would you have them do? there was unrest in Arabia with 4 fake prophets, hordes of rebelling tribes, if they started mourning like Ashura head banging festivals then Makkah would have been overrun and Islam would have never gained momentum.

(wasalam)

First, I'd like to thank you for researching the true Shia beliefs, which very few people do. I'll just respond to the first question, because I have limited time here.

First of all, Shias do not "curse" the Sahaba. They dissociate themselves (ie, distance themselves from) certain Sahaba who have broken Islamic laws and normal codes of decent human behavoiur.

The thing is, brother, when you make a claim, you have to show some proof for it. So, for example, if I say "The Prophet(saaw) said: Do not do homework, it was invented by Satan" then I have to show some proof, like an actual hadith to back it up. Otherwise my words carry no weight at all. Similarly to what you said: "there was unrest in Arabia with 4 fake prophets, hordes of rebelling tribes, if they started mourning like Ashura head banging festivals then Makkah would have been overrun and Islam would have never gained momentum." - there is no evidence for this, there is no evidence that something bad would have happened, if they waited for a few hours. If you can bring us some evidence to the contrary, we'd all like to see it please.

The thing is,

1) Abu Bakr and Umar could easily have waited a few hours, until the Prophet (saaw) was buried and all the Sahaba were free for other matters.

2) If things were really so serious, then they could go to Saqifa, fine, but they should have done it PUBLICLY not SECRETLY, and called all the important members of the tribes to Saqifa, where they could have a nice calm discussion about who would become Caliph.

But they did not do this. They did not even consult the other Sahaba. They went, just 3 of them, WITHOUT CONSULTING ANYONE, and then decided that Abu Bakr would be Caliph - because only 3 Muhajirs and some Ansars had pledged "bayat" to him. Uthman was not there, Imam Ali (as) was not there, none of the famous sahaba were there.

Now, Sunnis like to say that they believe in democracy and choosing the Caliph through consultation - they say the Quran orders the believers to settle their affairs through consultation. So, where was the "consultation" in this most important decision of Abu Bakr and Umar? Why did they not consult anyone? Isn't choosing the leadership of the Islamic nation important enough to inform the people? Why should we accept Abu Bakr as a "rightful" caliph when he seized power in this hasty manner?

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Salam,

According to popular Shia belief, Umar (ra) Abu Bakr (ra) and Usman (ra) became heretics after the demise of the Holy Prophet (S.A.W.) and even go as far as cursing them regularly. I ask, what proof do you have of their heresy? Let me answer some of your possible responses:

1: They went to Saqifa instead of mourning the death of the Prophet (s.a.w.)

A. What would you have them do? there was unrest in Arabia with 4 fake prophets, hordes of rebelling tribes, if they started mourning like Ashura head banging festivals then Makkah would have been overrun and Islam would have never gained momentum.

2. Umar broke Fatima Zahra (r.a.)'s rib and killed her and threatened Ali to burn his house down if he didn't take oath at Abu Bakr's hand.

A. Would any self respecting man allow his wife's rib to be broken? We Sunnis admire Ali (ra) as AsadUllah (lion of God) and if anyone had attacked his wife he would certainly not have done nothing. Further if the other 3 Caliphs usurped Ali's caliphate why didn't he act against them and if Umar (ra) threatened him surely he would have taken action.

3. Ali was the first true Caliph

A. Ali was a great companion and we agree with Ghadir khumm but the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) also said "were there a prophet to come after me, He surely would be Umar." (Sahih Bukhari)

4. All the Caliphs before Ali (ra) were corrupt.

A. Let me give some food for thought:-

Yazid was corrupt so Ali, Hassan and Hussain resisted him and were martyred in one way or another, So if Umar, Uthman and Abu Bakr were not true Caliphs surely AsadUllah and his sons would have resisted them...?

5. Ghadir Khumm justifies Calling Ali Moula;

A. Abdullah Ibn Saba and his followers did that when Ali (ra.) was alive.... why don't you check what He did to them? and Ali sought Help from Allah. He didn't seek help from himself... so why do you, why not seek help from the same God who elevated Ali(ra) to such greatness?

6. Umar(RA) was a true Mushriq

A. During persecution in Makkah the Holy Prophet (pbuh) prayed to Allah to make either Abu Jahl or Omar Muslim.. who became one? Umar... He was favoured by Allah and cannot have been a Mushriq by heart afterwards. Also, Umar (ra) introduced Ijtihad, (Jurisprudence) and later Usuli Ithna'a Ashariya'a adopted that. So they adopted teachings of a Kafir?

7. Present Quran read by Sunni's is Uthmanic version where extra verses criticizing the Quraish were emitted, also 1 whole Para is missing;

A. Any evidence of this absurd claim..??

Please post your answers to clear any misconceptions b/w Sunni and Shia, the reason of unrest b/w Sunni and Shia is mainly due to disrespect of one another so please reply in a civilised way,

Allah be with us all

Wa'Salam

Walaykum Salam WR

1) If I was to say that the Prophet (s) did not appoint a successor, but there was a need such that when the Prophet (s) died, imediately there was a need to capture power, then I have to look back and say that the Prophet (s) failed in his mission because he forgot a critical point such that even burying him was not as important as saving Islam, which then negates the entire religion

2) According to us, Imam Ali a.s told Fatimah a.s that he can go out against them if she wanted, the only thing is that you will never hear the Adhan again, so Fatimah a.s and Ali a.s chose patince just as Harun a.s chose patience rather than causing fitna as the Quran testifies.

3) If Umar would be the next Prophet, then what was Abu Bakr doing in a position higher than him? Can abu Bakr be higher than a would be Prophet? We believe that if there is no direct appointment, we cannot accept them, eve if it was the Prophet's (s) son himself, so this is the issue, doesn't matter what title they were given, if there was no direct appointment, I can't bring myself to follow it.

5) They called Ali a.s God, which is why it is aid that he did what he did...Ali a.s is our master jus as Rasool Allah (s) is our master, and that is wat is meant by Moula

6) I remember there was a hadith where the Prophet (s) himself spoke of deriving laws from the Quran and the Sunnah

7) As for the Quran, Allah swt promised to protect it, therefore how it was protected is not important to me, I take Allah's word for it

Walaykum Salam WR

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Walaykum Salam WR

1) If I was to say that the Prophet (s) did not appoint a successor, but there was a need such that when the Prophet (s) died, imediately there was a need to capture power, then I have to look back and say that the Prophet (s) failed in his mission because he forgot a critical point such that even burying him was not as important as saving Islam, which then negates the entire religion

Brother, he did not appoint a successor, if he did and Ali K.A.W was his successor then why did he give bay'ah to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman R.A? It wouldn't make sense that a Prophet SAW would have appointed a successor unless the successor was a Prophet because then it would be Allah swt that has actually appointed him, think of it this way, the Prophet's SAW successor was to be chosen by the people since this way the people would actually have a leader they agree on.

2) According to us, Imam Ali a.s told Fatimah a.s that he can go out against them if she wanted, the only thing is that you will never hear the Adhan again, so Fatimah a.s and Ali a.s chose patince just as Harun a.s chose patience rather than causing fitna as the Quran testifies.

With this mentality did Ali K.A.W also get forced to marry his daughter to Umar R.A and ALSO get forced to name his children Abu Bakr and Umar?

3) If Umar would be the next Prophet, then what was Abu Bakr doing in a position higher than him? Can abu Bakr be higher than a would be Prophet? We believe that if there is no direct appointment, we cannot accept them, eve if it was the Prophet's (s) son himself, so this is the issue, doesn't matter what title they were given, if there was no direct appointment, I can't bring myself to follow it.

Why do you love to give people ranks?

7) As for the Quran, Allah swt promised to protect it, therefore how it was protected is not important to me, I take Allah's word for it

I agree with you, to say it is not whole or corrupted is to doubt Allah swt's word.

Edited by Dagga
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Brother, he did not appoint a successor, if he did and Ali K.A.W was his successor then why did he give bay'ah to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman R.A? It wouldn't make sense that a Prophet SAW would have appointed a successor unless the successor was a Prophet because then it would be Allah swt that has actually appointed him, think of it this way, the Prophet's SAW successor was to be chosen by the people since this way the people would actually have a leader they agree on.

With this mentality did Ali K.A.W also get forced to marry his daughter to Umar R.A and ALSO get forced to name his children Abu Bakr and Umar?

Why do you love to give people ranks?

I agree with you, to say it is not whole or corrupted is to doubt Allah swt's word.

Brother was Talut in the Quran a Prophet or a king?, when the Israelites asked their prophet to appoint a king over them, he appointed Talut, why didn't he allow the people to choose? Because the wrong person may have become king, and that is how tyrants come into power, when there is no set criteria for an appointment, anyone can come through. Only Allah swt knows the inner hearts of man and therefore only he is able to choose the best leader. Please read the story about how the baya issue happened as I'm sure it has been discussed on this forum before.

Whether he married his daughter to him or not, does not effect the principles that we as Muslims live by, a number of reasons could have been the cause of this and therefore does not weaken our faith. One needs to break the foundation of a group in order to prove them wrong, e.g. we have a principle that says that only God can appoint the representatives of the completed message as well as other principles...Harun in the Quran chose patience over fighting in order to prevent fitna, therefore I am not surprised when I hear that Imam Ali a.s did the same...You may say that how could Harun cause fitna from simply stopping them from worshipping the calf? But then again a Propher of God (Harun) knows best

The names Abu Bakr, Umar etc.. where common names back then, I could give yu a list of people with these names back then if you wish?...Some say that he named them this in order to show people that a name does not determine the goodness or the badness of an individual. As for the name "Uthman", he was named after a very close friend to Imam Ali a.s. Some Shia's may have been unreasonable in this case though e.g. I heard that Uthman Bin Ali was in Karbala, and to this day I have never heard of how he was killed there. This could be because some hate these names, but remember that we cannot demonize a group because of individuals and remember that not all Shia's are like that

May peace be with you Akhi

Edited by Hassan_S
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A1. first decide was it because of wht u say or was it cuz of this hadess which is in ur books .. ""Whoever Doesn't know his imam of his time and dies, has died as if he has died during ignorance age or as an atheist""

A2. we have made a diff post for that but to make long story short .... Prophet phuh told the lion of Allah to have patience and mashallah imam Ali followed Prophet's words to the fullest extent.

( He gave a famous speech where he explained why he had to make certain gesture that seemed conciliatory. Read Nahjul Balagha Khutbah ash-Shiqshiqiyy Ali(as) said Abu Bakr dressed himself with the khilafah being fully aware of the crime and sins he committed.)

A3 (Sahih Bukhari) ????? this books ??? -> why do u believe in this book n how come all its hadees are true --there is only one book tht is shahi for us the shia n thts the quran ...

A4. Yazid was open sinner ....the others played politics ...they showed that they where good .....

A5 Calling Ali Moula; wht is moula to you """"frnd """???? to whom i m frnd ali is frnd ...(does it have any logic )use ur brains ...dint rasooallaah call ya ali /

A6. Read books of history omar use n take help from ali (as) he dint know any thing ... ali helped him but not cuz he was his frnd or he liked him but to save islam .... Omar himself said many times, If it wasn't for Ali, Omar would have perished.”

1. Please quote a unanimously accepted Sunni book which tells "Whoever Doesn't know his imam of his time and dies, has died as if he has died during ignorance age or as an atheist"

2. The Prophet (s) said, “The most beloved of my family to me is Fatima.”

If anyone had broken her sacred rib the whole ummah would behead that person and it would be a mistake to call him a Muslim. Instead many Imams named their children Omar, why would they name the very person who murdered their mother their names?

3. You say the only book you believe is Quran but yet you quote "Read Nahjul Balagha Khutbah ash-Shiqshiqiyy"

And I too have pondered the question "Why to trust Sihah al sitta?" Butthen I researched, not from the internet but big Islamic libraries in my city. I found the level of meticulousness that Imam Bukhari (ra) heard someone had a valuable hadees of the Prophet (SAWS) and so went to acquire it. The journey was long and tedious and when he finally arrived he noticed the man was trying to bring his own camel towards him by flipping his upturned shirt to pretend there was food in it. Bukhari (ra) immediately turned away saying if he can fool an animal he is capable of fooling any of Allah's makhlooq.

4. Yazid(LA) is a kafir so he is not part of the discussion. As for the other 3 whom you do not consider Caliphs, what did they gain by caliphate? Money? Power? They helped stabilize Islam as a new religion, Umar (ra) simultaneously broke the noses of Byzantium and Persia making Islam a force to be reckoned with.

5. In my language Moula means madadgarh (One who helps) I ask Allah for help since he knows the state of my heart and mind, which Ali(RA) does not. RasoolAllah(SAW) ofc must have said Ya Ali(RA) help me with this or that but not in the sense of dua.... We ask Allah, help us we are sinners, do you think RasoolAllah (SAW) asked in that sense?

6. The Sahaba helped each other, they are our role models after the Prophet (SAW) as a community to work together. And I have read extensively of Umar, Allah had enlightened him such that he made Islam concrete while reducing great kindoms of other religions to sand

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Brother was Talut in the Quran a Prophet or a king?, when the Israelites asked their prophet to appoint a king over them, he appointed Talut, why didn't he allow the people to choose? Because the wrong person may have become king, and that is how tyrants come into power, when there is no set criteria for an appointment, anyone can come through. Only Allah swt knows the inner hearts of man and therefore only he is able to choose the best leader. Please read the story about how the baya issue happened as I'm sure it has been discussed on this forum before.

Whether he married his daughter to him or not, does not effect the principles that we as Muslims live by, a number of reasons could have been the cause of this and therefore does not weaken our faith. One needs to break the foundation of a group in order to prove them wrong, e.g. we have a principle that says that only God can appoint the representatives of the completed message as well as other principles...Harun in the Quran chose patience over fighting in order to prevent fitna, therefore I am not surprised when I hear that Imam Ali a.s did the same...You may say that how could Harun cause fitna from simply stopping them from worshipping the calf? But then again a Propher of God (Harun) knows best

The names Abu Bakr, Umar etc.. where common names back then, I could give yu a list of people with these names back then if you wish?...Some say that he named them this in order to show people that a name does not determine the goodness or the badness of an individual. As for the name "Uthman", he was named after a very close friend to Imam Ali a.s. Some Shia's may have been unreasonable in this case though e.g. I heard that Uthman Bin Ali was in Karbala, and to this day I have never heard of how he was killed there. This could be because some hate these names, but remember that we cannot demonize a group because of individuals and remember that not all Shia's are like that

May peace be with you Akhi

Patience is irrelevant when you "break the rib" of the flesh and blood of Muhammad (S.A.W.)

If the case of naming is the issue then;

Narrates Ibn Shuba' Al-Harrani "A man came to Imam Jafar As-Sadiq (May Allah's blessings be with him) and inquired whether it was acceptable to adorn one's sword with decorative emblems or gems, Imam Jafar (May Allah's blessings be with him) replied 'It is acceptable as Abu Bakr As Siddiq used to do this' whereupon the man asked 'Why do you call him Siddiq' And Imam Jafar (May Allah's blessings be with him) replied thrice 'He is Siddiq' and left" Also why did the daughter of Imam Ali(RA) marry Omar(RA)

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Salaam Alaikum,

thank you for your post and well mannered speech.

right now there are 2 options that i can take

1: answer your original question of " I ask, what proof do you have of their heresy?"

2: answer every single point you have made in your post

I will only answer your original question and if you want me to answer the points you have made, InshaAllah i will do so as well.

as for what "proofs" do we have that they were "misguided"?

1. the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) himself was angry at umar on His death bed. in this argument, Ahl Sunna do all they can do defend umar, while Shias simpyl stay with the words of the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) which was his angry comment on him to get him out of the room.

2. your own books (such as bukhari and muslim) show contradictions between the beliefs of Imam Ali (as) and the first 3 khalifs, here is only one example from sahih muslim:

Sa'id b. al-Musayyab reported that 'Ali and 'uthman (Allah be pleased with them) met at 'Usfan; and uthman used to forbid (people) from performing Tamattu' and 'Umra (during the period of hajj), whereupon 'Ali said: What is your opinion about a matter which the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) did but you forbid it? Thereupon uthman said: You leave us alone, whereupon he ('Ali) said: I cannot leave you alone. When 'Ali saw this, he put on Ihram for both of them together (both for hajj and 'Umra). (Book #007, Hadith #2816)

so here someone is misguided and wrong, and please tell me if it is Imam Ali (as) or uthman?

and before you answer that question, please have this hadith in mind from bukhari:

Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet said, "Whoever disapproves of something done by his ruler then he should be patient, for whoever disobeys the ruler even a little (little = a span) will die as those who died in the Pre-lslamic Period of ignorance. (i.e. as rebellious Sinners). (Book #88, Hadith #176)

so "if" uthman was islamically a "legitimate" ruler, then it would mean that Imam Ali (as) "disaproved" of what his "ruler" had done, and therefore has (NauzbiAllah) died the death of jahelia.

you dont need to answer me, just be honest with yourself.

i can give you a huge list, but there are other users here who are replying and i dont want you to read much, if you'd like to continue this, then message and we can take it into e-mails InshaAllah

i hope my answer is not offending you as i would not want to disrespect you or your faith

and i will only make one single comment about your few points, and that is that Shias do not believe anything is missing from the Holy Quran. this is one point i had to mention

WaSalaam

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Shru Allah ke naam se:

i think it's quintessence to love Hz Ahlebait rz.a. N Hz Sahaba Ikram rz.a. At par.

One who has ill -feelings, animosity or hatred for either of them is the enemy of Hz Mohammad s.a.w.. He refutes the Risalat of Huzoor s.a.w. As v believe that our Huzoor s.a.w. Was the best n most successful Rasool whereas, one casts false aspersions that no sooner had he closed his eyes fm this transient world than all of his Sahaba Ikram rz.a. Except a few ones became infidels n perverted. It means that our prophet s.a.w. Was absolutely unsuccessful in his mission, Ma'azallah, he could not instil the power of Iman in the hearts of even 10 people who cud remain muslims after his demise.

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Shru Allah ke naam se:

i think it's quintessence to love Hz Ahlebait rz.a. N Hz Sahaba Ikram rz.a. At par.

One who has ill -feelings, animosity or hatred for either of them is the enemy of Hz Mohammad s.a.w.. He refutes the Risalat of Huzoor s.a.w. As v believe that our Huzoor s.a.w. Was the best n most successful Rasool whereas, one casts false aspersions that no sooner had he closed his eyes fm this transient world than all of his Sahaba Ikram rz.a. Except a few ones became infidels n perverted. It means that our prophet s.a.w. Was absolutely unsuccessful in his mission, Ma'azallah, he could not instil the power of Iman in the hearts of even 10 people who cud remain muslims after his demise.

Shias love Sahab karam more then sunnies. I can prove it to you, but only the righteous ones.

as soon as Rasool Allah (pbuh) passed away some of the sahaba did turn their back on him, so much so that they did not even attend his (pbuh) funeral.

How the action of such sahaba be a reflection on the success of failure of the Prophet (pbuh) when Allah in Quran tells Mohammad (pbuh) to "pass the message" and it is HIS prerogative to guide certain individuals.

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"Allah, Allah, my Companions! Do not make them a target after me. Whoever loves them, it is by my love that he loves them. Whoever hates them, incurs my hate by doing so. Whoever harms them has harmed me. Whoever has harms me has harmed Allah. Whoever harms Allah is about to be seized." (Tirmidhi).

But because it is a sunni hadith the shia will not accpet it but Allah knows best.

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Yet you guys say r.a. after their names. If Allah (swt) is pleased with them then why even say it?

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Because we acknowledge their brilliance, and their love for Muhammad (pbuh). And also the r.a is mentioned in the quran and when we say word that are in the Quran we inshallah get reward.

And Allah knows best.

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Because we acknowledge their brilliance, and their love for Muhammad (pbuh). And also the r.a is mentioned in the quran and when we say word that are in the Quran we inshallah get reward.

And Allah knows best.

Brilliance or cunningness?

If they truly loved Rasullah (saw), then why did they turn their back on him?

Inshallah we'll see.

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Inshallah we will see

please educate us brother how a killer and killed can both be righteous and both (ra)?

I or even shias in general love the righteous companions and talk about them and learn from them and disassociate with the ones that were usurpers, munafiqs, criminals etc.

another point to ponder is if you start analyzing the names shias and sunnis mention of ashaab in particular you will see the Shia mentioned ashaab as generally poor, upright, not part of power struggle and dying (mostly poor) in the way of Allah and mostly by the ashaab mentioned and revered by sunnis like Muwayia (ammar bin yasir) or uthman (abu zar ghaffari) etc. The sunnis love those who had wealth and/or power whereas shias love those which were righteous and truthful.

Food for thought bro

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