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In the Name of God بسم الله

Are There Any Female Marajas?

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  • Advanced Member

You can't follow a dead marji.

But Fadhullah doesn't believe in that. Based on the written notice on his website (I checked a few years ago), he allows you to follow multiple marjas, dead or alive and women too.

I would advise you to go and follow someone who is alive, who is the most knowledgeable one.

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i love him. and i dont care if he is gone Allah yerhamou. we share views and nothing can ever come between us. his website is more inviting than the others.

besides there is a team that updates his website under his name...and i bet they follow everything exactly like how he used to do....so it must be legit

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i love him. and i dont care if he is gone Allah yerhamou. we share views and nothing can ever come between us. his website is more inviting than the others.

besides there is a team that updates his website under his name...and i bet they follow everything exactly like how he used to do....so it must be legit

7ayartina so who is it Sayyed Fadlallah or female marja3 or better yet how about you follow the wife of Sayyed Fadlallah.

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i love him. and i dont care if he is gone Allah yerhamou. we share views and nothing can ever come between us. his website is more inviting than the others.

besides there is a team that updates his website under his name...and i bet they follow everything exactly like how he used to do....so it must be legit

your pretty immature for wanting to follow a marjae for one reason only.. a pretty stupid reason at that.

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i love him. and i dont care if he is gone Allah yerhamou. we share views and nothing can ever come between us. his website is more inviting than the others.

besides there is a team that updates his website under his name...and i bet they follow everything exactly like how he used to do....so it must be legit

You do know that there is a way to follow a marja, you cannot just pick one because their website is more inviting. Its a good step that you are taking but if i was in your shoes i would start the right way.

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  • Advanced Member

You can't follow a dead marji.

But Fadhullah doesn't believe in that. Based on the written notice on his website (I checked a few years ago), he allows you to follow multiple marjas, dead or alive and women too.

I would advise you to go and follow someone who is alive, who is the most knowledgeable one.

Sorry for being so ignorant - but may I ask why?

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Sorry for being so ignorant - but may I ask why?

Because sometimes their rulings don't apply in our time. For example, if you follow a marjae who died 200 year ago - you won't have any rulings on cloning for example. Whereas many marjae who are alive now have rulings on cloning. It makes it a lot easier to live life when the rulings apply to the time period you are in.

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Um does it really matter to follow a Marja? cant we just follow the one book from Allah swt there are so many books omg im getting confused, what if we choose to follow a Marja and some rulings we followed end up being incorrect is our own sin or will it be the Marja that we followed sin?

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salaam

a female can be mujtahida but not a marja as far as i know because a marja3 needs to be a judge and a prime leader and a female is not allowed to be a judge or prime minister because those roles contradict her role

you want to think about the issue just name me one hujjah (masoom prophet or imam or messenger) who was a female. The role of the marja3 is the same as the role of the masoom hujjah and hence its not suitable for females...

the idea of women leading is like the aisha affair where imam Ali insulted them by calling them " the army of the woman"

why would imam Ali think of it as an insult to be following a woman as a leader if it was compatible with her gender role?

Also the prophet said that at the end times the corruption will rise and earth will be ruled by women

again he said it in a negative way ,,, so why would the prophet frown upon the leadership of women and blame the corruption on that?

any way the world now is heading to the leadership of females ,,, they are putting them in every role and stealing thier femeninity and making them more and more miserable ,, we just need to wait and see how this world would look like under the female presidents...

so far even the leaders of the curruption in the world and the forerunners of the dajjal have not allowed females to be president yet

salaam

Um does it really matter to follow a Marja? cant we just follow the one book from Allah swt there are so many books omg im getting confused, what if we choose to follow a Marja and some rulings we followed end up being incorrect is our own sin or will it be the Marja that we followed sin?

a muslim is required to have either conducted ijtihad to derive the rule from its sources or to follow the conclusion of another person who did the ijtihad

Ijtihad= making effort (juhd) to derive the law of god from its sources (holy texts)

dont be afraid of the books ,,, ofcourse youll have many books for a religion that is 1400 years old that used to be the biggest empire at that time but not all books are relavant

the Bases of religion do not rely on books but they are simple and elementary and are derived from the innate and pure logic even if one had no access to any book

1) tawheed gods divine unity

2) justice of god

3) day of return (judgeemnt day)

4) the necessary existance of masoom on earth to communicate gods messege

ETC

salaam

Edited by alimohamad40
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Um does it really matter to follow a Marja? cant we just follow the one book from Allah swt there are so many books omg im getting confused, what if we choose to follow a Marja and some rulings we followed end up being incorrect is our own sin or will it be the Marja that we followed sin?

Sister, you can follow the Book except do you know how to derive laws from it? Does Quran tell you what things breaks your fast, what requires a Ghusl, where does Khums money go, to a million other issues. There is a reason why you have to go study in hawza for over a DECADE to understand these things. You cannot just pick up Quran and be like i will apply my interpretation to laws of Allah. Hence, you have to follow a Marja who are "specialist" in this regard

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^^ then I shall follow himz for the time being...until a woman becomes one.

salaams

sorry but you can't use that as a reason to follow a marj3a

the ruling for taqleed is that you must follow the person you think has the most knowledge and will bring you the closest to Allah. To do this you have to have a proper understanding of fiqh as well as other areas of islamic knowledge and be able to compare all the rulings of each marj3a you are considering and decide which will help you the most in gaining nearness to Allah.

Due to the fact that most people haven't got this level of islamic knowledge, there is a group of maraj3a called Majlis-e-Kibra that decide on who is the most knowledgable Grand-Ayatollah and this person should be the ayatollah that the masses should follow if they dont have the level of islamic knowledge to determine who will be best. Currently, the ayatollah they have decided on is Sayyid Sistani.

As far as i am aware, there are no female Grand-Ayatollahs and they aren't allowed to become Grand-Ayatollah's.

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Um does it really matter to follow a Marja? cant we just follow the one book from Allah swt there are so many books omg im getting confused, what if we choose to follow a Marja and some rulings we followed end up being incorrect is our own sin or will it be the Marja that we followed sin?

There are two sources of Islamic law - the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh). Both are important.

http://www.sistani.o...&id=48&pid=2116

Mujtahid is a jurist competent enough to deduce precise inferences regarding the commandments from the holy Qur'an and the Sunnah of the holy Prophet by the process of Ijtihad. Ijtihad literally means striving and exerting. Technically as a term of jurisprudence it signifies the application by a jurist of all his faculties to the consideration of the authorities of law with a view to finding out what in all probability is the law. In other words Ijtihad means making deductions in matters of law, in the cases to which no express text is applicable. (See, Baqir Sadr, A Short History of 'llmul Usul, ISP, 1984).

http://www.sistani.o...&id=46&pid=2026

A person who does not have the ability to extract and derive the religious laws must take up taqlid of the most learned mujtahid. The deeds of such a person without taqlid or ihtiyat are null and void.

The most learned mujtahid (al-a'lam) is the most capable in deriving the religious laws from their sources.

In order to determine who is the most learned mujtahid, one must refer to the ahlul khibra (those who are sufficiently knowledgeable in Islamic jurisprudence). It is not permissible in this matter to refer to a person who has no expertise in this subject.

You can know the opinion (fatwa) of your marja' by one of the following methods:

By hearing the ruling from the mujtahid himself.

By being informed about the mujtahid's fatwa by two just men or by a reliable person.

By referring to the Manual of Islamic Laws (risala) of the marja' or other books of that category.

When the most erudite mujtahid has no fatwa on an issue or if it is not possible for the layman to find the opinion of his marja' when he needs it, he can then refer to another mujtahid who is the second best in the line of hierarchy of being a'lam.

How do you identify the most knowlegable scholar http://www.sistani.org/index.php?p=251364&id=46&pid=2027

Question: How do we know who ahlul khibra are so that we may ask them about the a'lam mujtahid? How do we reach them since we are far away from religious seminaries? Is there a way that can simplify for us the process of determining whom we should follow in taqlid?

Answer: The ahlul khibra are the mujtahids and those next in line in religious sciences, and they know quite well that one person in a limited group of mujtahids is the a'lam. And they have to consider the following three things to identify that a'lam:

First: His knowledge concerning the methods for providing the authenticity of the hadith, and that involves 'ilmu 'r-rijal (the science of narrators of hadith) and 'ilmu 'l-hadith (the science of hadith). On this subject, issues like familiarity with the books [of hadith] and the ahadith that have been tampered with; knowledge of causes for fabrication [of ahadith]; variance in the manuscripts and distinguishing the most correct one; and being aware of confusion which sometimes occurs between the text of a hadith and the explanation of the compilers, are of utmost importance.

Second: His ability to understand the meaning of the text by considering the general rules of speech, especially the style used by the Imams of Ahlul Bayt (a.s.) in describing the laws. The science of 'usûlu 'l-fiqh (Principles of Jurisprudence), Arabic grammar and literature, as well as familiarity with the views of the Sunni jurists who were contemporaries of the Imams play an important role in the understanding of the hadith texts.

Third: Soundness of his view in deriving the rules from the sources. And the method of getting acquainted with those in whom the status of a'lam is confined to having scholarly discussions with them or to referring to their books or to the transcripts of their lectures on Jurisprudence and the Principles of Jurisprudence.

Edited by Gypsy
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^^To Ali Mohammad

What do you say about the Hadees? where Imam Hassan Askari(as) said that ''we are Hujjah on you and our grandmother Fatima(as) is hujjah upon us''.

Ask any alim for the confirmation of Hadees.

hujjah means a proof upon others ,,, some one who does better than us and hence god uses them to prove to us that its possible to do the right thing...

when i said Hujjah i didnt say any type of hujjah but i said a masoom imam and or prophet and or messenger

being an imam means to lead and be a judge ,,, same with an imam prophet ,,, and that particular role is not compatible with the role of the female

a woman can be as good and better than men in the eyes of god and she can be as knowledgable or more knowledgable than men in ijtihad but that doesnt mean she takes a role which contradicts with her nature and her designated role.....

we have 12 imams but fatima alzahra is not an imam and was not given the role to lead the society otherwise we would have been called the 13ers not 12ers

thats god nothing to do with her status ,,, she could be higher than all the men in the world in the eyes of god we dont know but that doesnt mean she is to take such roles

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  • Advanced Member

ok so if the uneducated put their trust into the highly educated, and by some unfortunate possible misunderstanding the highly educated persons may be incorrect in some area that we shall never know, at end of days would it be Our sin for following/accepting them or would it be their sin for preaching something incorrect?

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Good thread going on here...

Brother Ali Mohammad, you are correct that a woman cannot be a Marja because it contradicts her role, and you are also right when you said that does not lower her status in the eyes of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. However a problem we have these days, is that roles that women should and are meant to take (i'm primarily talking about seats in parliment/goverment) are not being realised. When women are not representing themselves and other women in a community/country, rest assured that is when that country will not have a firm and long lasting foundation to stand on

Sister Muslimah, the idea of following a Mujtahid, is because Allah in His Infinite Wisdom knew that most people would not be able to contribute to society if each and every one of us did meticulous research into jurisprudence to come up with religious law that we can follow for ourselves. that is why He has decreed a system of follow a select few (during the occultation of our beloved Imam) who have done all the hard work for us, so we can continue studying/working/helping the underprivilidged (my spelling is hopeless these days)

There is a beatiful story about 2 islamic scholars who both gave 2 very different rulings to an issue but were both correct, Insha Allah i will mention it when i get a chance

For us, we have to do a basic amount of research to see which scholar (we don't have to research every one of them, just 3 or 4 of the more well known ones would do) is most learned TO US (that's the key point), and once we follow their ruling, on the Day of Judgement, if what we followed was not 1005 accurate, we can point the finger and say "scholar so-and-so told us to do this and we did it", and that would be accepted for us.

It is important to mention Allah (SWT) only shows 1 level of mercy in this world, He will show is 100 levels of mercy on The Day of Judgement. We have to remind ourselves we are worshipping and are in love with an Infinitely Merciful Creator. Then the little differences between scholar rulings won't be such a big deal anymore

And Allah knows best

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  • Advanced Member

If you follow the rules of taqleed correctly (following the most knowledgeable scholar/s), then neither of you will be responsible for following the incorrect rulling.

It should be remembered that the mujtahid formulates his opinions after pushing his research and study as far as he can; that is all that is expected of him, for he is neither inerrant nor an `alim bi 'l-ghayb (knower of the unseen). The muqallid is enjoined to follow his opinions. So, even if the mujtahid's fatwa is not actually in agreement with Allah's real command, neither he will be punished on the Day of Judgement for having issued the fatwa, nor will his muqallid for having acted according to it, for both will have done what was commanded of them and what was humanly possible for them to do.

http://www.al-islam.org/beliefs/practices/taqlid.html#5

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  • Advanced Member

You can't follow a dead marji.

But Fadhullah doesn't believe in that. Based on the written notice on his website (I checked a few years ago), he allows you to follow multiple marjas, dead or alive and women too.

I would advise you to go and follow someone who is alive, who is the most knowledgeable one.

i tired looking at his website but couldn't find anything about following a dead or alive marja, or if he lets you follow a female. if you would provide evidence of that if you may

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  • Advanced Member

What about a beginner, how should he choose one, considering he belongs to a non-religious background,

what should be the first step to access one--i.e., Marja ? like internet search etc.? what else ?

Here's what I would do.

Compile a list with 5-10 names of all the Shia marajas. Read the biography of all the marajas. Then ask the expert to identify who is the most knowlegable scholar.

Here's the answer from Sistani

If there are some ahlul khibra who refuse to identify the a'lam for one reason or another, there are other ahlul khibra who readily identify him. It is possible to contact those ahlul khibra through the religious scholars and others who are reliable and have contacts with religious seminaries and with the scholars in other countries. So, although identifying the a'lam is not without difficulty, yet it is not a serious problem.
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  • Advanced Member

Because sometimes their rulings don't apply in our time. For example, if you follow a marjae who died 200 year ago - you won't have any rulings on cloning for example. Whereas many marjae who are alive now have rulings on cloning. It makes it a lot easier to live life when the rulings apply to the time period you are in.

Oh, thanks for explaining things so clearly. :)

But what if the marjae you were following suddenly died, what happens then ? Who gives the rulings for the later queries then?

Would I have to choose a new marjae then?

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Thanks for the response :) . But, back to my original query, what happens if I continue to follow an old marjae and he's passed away, and I need the answer to a contemporary problem that hadn't been dealt with in the past?

Who gives the rulings for the later queries then?

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No disrespect to some of the posters on this thread but honestly, what a joke. The condition is for the prospective muqallid to determine the most knowledgeable alim. This is impossible, if you had the knowledge to differentiate you wouldn't need to do taqleed! It doesn't matter who has the best website, the most muqallids or the highest profile.

There's a WHOLE chapter in al Kafi titled "Chapter on the impermissibility of doing taqleed to a non-Masoom". Taqleed itself can't be proven from a SINGLE 'saheeh' narration (saheeh according to Usooli standards) so the best you'll get in it's defence are vague references to "referring to the transmitters of hadeeth" or long-winded tracts by it's proponents with little or no reference of weight or value.

It's not part of Shi'ah usool or furoo. Do yourself a favour - read, learn, research wherever possible - it's YOUR aqueedah and akhira'ah at stake here. On the odd occasion you're stuck be open to defer to a learned person (or exercise precaution in the matter) but to be tied to a fallible who may even contradict the rulings of Aimm'ah Masoom (as)?

"Amir ul Momineem Imam Ali ibn Abu Talib (as) said in relation to Imam e Zamana (ajtf):

The occultation of Qaim (as) will be for such an extended period that the ignorant shall begin saying that Allah (jjh) does not consider the Aimm'ah (as) to be neccesary as a means of guidance."

Kamal ud Deen Volume 1 Page 318

Don't be sucked into this just because it's the 'norm'; in Islam generally sunni is the norm, in the World generally non-Muslim is the norm - what good is that as an indicator of correctness?

You (and I and everyone else) are responsible to seek and find the Truth for ourselves and responsible for our actions - no one else can take that burden on your behalf.

ALI

Edited by Kismet110
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  • Advanced Member

Thanks for the response :) . But, back to my original query, what happens if I continue to follow an old marjae and he's passed away, and I need the answer to a contemporary problem that hadn't been dealt with in the past?

Who gives the rulings for the later queries then?

if theres a modern issue that he hasn't made a ruling for, generally you follow the ruling of the marj3a the ahlul khibra decide on. Right now that is Sistani

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  • Advanced Member

Thanks for the response :) . But, back to my original query, what happens if I continue to follow an old marjae and he's passed away, and I need the answer to a contemporary problem that hadn't been dealt with in the past?

Who gives the rulings for the later queries then?

There's no straightforward answer to this question.

Here's some hint http://www.al-islam.org/organizations/aalimnetwork/msg00020.html

- If the deceased mujtahid in whose taqlid you were is a'alam, then the consensus amongst the jurists is that you should continue his taqlid after his

death and at the same time choose another mujtahid who is next in rank for guidance on issues that are not covered by the deceased mujtahid.

- Some mujtahids, like the late Ayat. Khui, only allow one to follow those rulings (fatawa) of the deceased mujtahid which one was aware of in

his/her lifetime.

- Other mujtahids (Sistani and Sadr) permit one to follow all the rulings of the deceased mujtahid that are extant.

Detail explanations from Sistani

1. If a Mu'min still believes that Ayatullah Al-Ozma Seyyid Al-Khui or Ayatullah Al-Ozma Seyyid Al-Gulpaygani was A'lam as before than other

maraje, then it is wajib for him/her to continue on the taqleed in all Masa'el mentioned in the books of the deceased Marja, and to follow

Ayatullah Al-Uzma Seestani's order in new Masa'el and in matters of Huquq-e-Shar'i [i.e. religious taxes].

2. However, if the belief later on changes in respect of the above mentioned deceased Marajae, i.e. now he believes that they were not

A'lam than Ayatullah Seestani, then the Mu'min should do Ayatullah Seestani's taqleed totally in all masa'el.

3. If a Mu'min who still believes that any of the above mentioned deceased Maraje was A'lam as before and has done my (Ayatullah

Seestani's) taqleed totally, he/she should return to the taqleed of the late Marja' in all Masa'el in the books of the late Marja (except for

new masael and Huquq-e-Shar'i as explained above).

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  • Advanced Member

No dear,can you say when Imam Ali(as) was born the Kaaba was filled with blood? No.

Yes for common people these characteristics will be applied in Jannah,but for Kings and Queens of Jannah they apply anywhere.

Can human baby pay Sajda at time of birth? but Imams(as) did,then how can be sajda done with rijs?

I think its off topic discussion,lets get back to the topic :) .Can females be marjas?as i said there should be some specific mujtahidas for females as well, to guide them properly.As they can understand us more.

I agree with your explanations Kaniz e Zehra..good reasonings..

By the way, I don't understand why people are referring to Ayatollah Khamenei as sheik when he is a syed?Moreover,its nothing like you can't trust sheiks...One shouldn't generalize all sheiks,isn't it?...There have been great sheiks in islamic history too..like Sheik Mufeed and most of the Sahaabis of Prophet ..ALSO I think,considering their greatness in knowledge and faith as well as their great contributions,the trustworthiness of Marjas can NEVER be questioned or doubted...

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  • Advanced Member

There's no straightforward answer to this question.

Here's some hint http://www.al-islam....k/msg00020.html

- If the deceased mujtahid in whose taqlid you were is a'alam, then the consensus amongst the jurists is that you should continue his taqlid after his

death and at the same time choose another mujtahid who is next in rank for guidance on issues that are not covered by the deceased mujtahid.

- Some mujtahids, like the late Ayat. Khui, only allow one to follow those rulings (fatawa) of the deceased mujtahid which one was aware of in

his/her lifetime.

- Other mujtahids (Sistani and Sadr) permit one to follow all the rulings of the deceased mujtahid that are extant.

Detail explanations from Sistani

1. If a Mu'min still believes that Ayatullah Al-Ozma Seyyid Al-Khui or Ayatullah Al-Ozma Seyyid Al-Gulpaygani was A'lam as before than other

maraje, then it is wajib for him/her to continue on the taqleed in all Masa'el mentioned in the books of the deceased Marja, and to follow

Ayatullah Al-Uzma Seestani's order in new Masa'el and in matters of Huquq-e-Shar'i [i.e. religious taxes].

2. However, if the belief later on changes in respect of the above mentioned deceased Marajae, i.e. now he believes that they were not

A'lam than Ayatullah Seestani, then the Mu'min should do Ayatullah Seestani's taqleed totally in all masa'el.

3. If a Mu'min who still believes that any of the above mentioned deceased Maraje was A'lam as before and has done my (Ayatullah

Seestani's) taqleed totally, he/she should return to the taqleed of the late Marja' in all Masa'el in the books of the late Marja (except for

new masael and Huquq-e-Shar'i as explained above).

you said sistani allows you to follow the all the rulings of a deceased marja but if u read the explanation from sistani you've mentioned, it says: that you must CONTINUE doing that persons taqleed. Meaning while they were alive you must have been doing their taqleed. If they passed before you began doing their taqleed, then it is not permissible to do their taqleed

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There's no straightforward answer to this question.

Here's some hint http://www.al-islam....k/msg00020.html

- If the deceased mujtahid in whose taqlid you were is a'alam, then the consensus amongst the jurists is that you should continue his taqlid after his

death and at the same time choose another mujtahid who is next in rank for guidance on issues that are not covered by the deceased mujtahid.

- Some mujtahids, like the late Ayat. Khui, only allow one to follow those rulings (fatawa) of the deceased mujtahid which one was aware of in

his/her lifetime.

- Other mujtahids (Sistani and Sadr) permit one to follow all the rulings of the deceased mujtahid that are extant.

Detail explanations from Sistani

1. If a Mu'min still believes that Ayatullah Al-Ozma Seyyid Al-Khui or Ayatullah Al-Ozma Seyyid Al-Gulpaygani was A'lam as before than other

maraje, then it is wajib for him/her to continue on the taqleed in all Masa'el mentioned in the books of the deceased Marja, and to follow

Ayatullah Al-Uzma Seestani's order in new Masa'el and in matters of Huquq-e-Shar'i [i.e. religious taxes].

2. However, if the belief later on changes in respect of the above mentioned deceased Marajae, i.e. now he believes that they were not

A'lam than Ayatullah Seestani, then the Mu'min should do Ayatullah Seestani's taqleed totally in all masa'el.

3. If a Mu'min who still believes that any of the above mentioned deceased Maraje was A'lam as before and has done my (Ayatullah

Seestani's) taqleed totally, he/she should return to the taqleed of the late Marja' in all Masa'el in the books of the late Marja (except for

new masael and Huquq-e-Shar'i as explained above).

Thank you Gypsy - your post was really very helpful. :)

Meaning while they were alive you must have been doing their taqleed. If they passed before you began doing their taqleed, then it is not permissible to do their taqleed

@abbask

Yes, I believe that's been already clarified twice before in this thread - I was just a bit slow in understanding things. :unsure:

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I think a good compromise would to allow female marjas but they can only have females followers. No man can have a female marja as taqleed.

That way the females have a choice to pick someone from their own gender.

Might work. I think. :mellow:

But if a feminist female becomes a marja then that will be a problem.

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