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Belle.Muslimah

[Closed/Review]Why Do Sunni's Call Shia's Kafir?

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Asalamu alaikom everyone i hope you are all happy and well inshallah,

I keep hearing of sunnis saying that Shia's are kafir and do shirk?? um i dont know much of this, from what i have gathered its something to do with relying on others then only Allah swt?? please can you clear this up for me and explain why they saying this and why its wrong thank you.

Wasalam

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Wa Sallam,

they really have no reason except for the lack of respect for other Muslims. I've even seen some people from one madhab call others from a different madhab insulting thing. What ever they have accused us of - our scholars have refuted over and over again using countless of sources and hadiths yet they are still blind to see. Heck even some of their own high scholars have already called the Jafari school of thought (12ver Shia) as a legit madhab that can be followed. We are already classified as Muslims by their top scholars so no idea why they still attack us...

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(salam)

Sunni's believe Shi'a to be Kafir because we believe in intercession through those of whom Allah (SWT) has chosen, namely the AhlulBayt of our Nabi RasoolAllah (SAW). They believe that because we built Shrines for those very people (as) and because we worship within the shrines that we are committing grave worship. The truth is that we pray through these holy personalities (Nabi RasoolAllah Muhammad (SAW), Imam Ali (as), etc.) to reach the Almighty, they are a means and a guide to lead us unto Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, not the primary focus of worship. We take after their ideals and lifestyle to become in closer proximity to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. The ironic thing is that while they condemn us for having shrines, they themselves have shrines of their 'heroes'.

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They think we're kaffirs because we believe that Ahlul Bait (as) are also guidance to obeying Islam. And that we have twelve Imams...whereas, they have the four caliphs..which doesn't make sense. They see Abu Bakr as we see Imam Hussain

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people call each other names but in reality they both commit shirk

shirk is for god to share his attributes with others or have associates or partners

the mujasima ( wahabies and salafies undet the hanbaly school) describe god by the descriptions of the created

and the ghulat of the shia describe the humans by the description of god similar to the idea of jesus

If you want details i could elaborate inshallah

salaam

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Salam

Because we reject the so called caliphs who usurped the rights of the Prophet s. and his family s. after his death, including leadership of the Muslims as the Prophet s. willed----> As Allah a.j. willed as the Prophet s. does not speak out of his own. All these proofs can easily be seen in the Qu'raan thank God. So they call us Rafidaah = "Rejecters of the "truth"

Also, because we visit (Zyarats) holy ones, mostly the Prophet s. and his bloodline, they claim we are praying to the graves, that's how they spoil our name, by calling us, idolaters, mushriks, kafers...

And we pray on sand as the Prophet s. did and ordered everyone else to... We use the clay of Karbala or Ninaveh as known anciently where the Prophet's s. grandson, son of Imam Ali s.---> Imam Hussain s. sacrificed himself to revive back true Islam as his grandfather's religion was dissipating through ruler-ship by dunya seeking oppressors that called themselves "Ameer Al-Mo'mineene", (Princes of Believers).... If not for Imam Hussein, there would not be an Islam as we know it, if any even, everyone agrees on that... So the land where the ultimate sacrifice occurred, where the rift between falsehood and righteousness was more than apparent, is holy. So we prostrate to Allah a.j. using that "turbah" mostly, when we can, as an honor to what we believe in, righteousness, for prayers pierce the veils on that land as mentioned by our Imams, so we use it (the Clay/Turbah you see on Shi'aah prayer mats). They make themselves believe that we prostrate to the clay and worship it...

Those are a few reasons they made up to call us Kafers... They're still thriving in making up lies to spoil Islam's name, the true and pure Islam I mean, which we are all trying to follow here... To follow Muhammad and his Family s.--->the Shi'aah of Muhammad and Family= 12er Shi'ism.

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Sister its mostly because of intercession that's the biggest reason, they say that we ascribe attributes of Allah to creations of Allah. if we say "Ya Ali" this makes us call out to Ali, giving him an ability to be all hearing since he can hear us from our home and he can hear thousands of other people who say "Ya Ali"...

I don't understand myself how to do intercession, everytime I read another explenation so if anyone could give a few clear examples of how to do it then I'd be very tanhkful :)

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Asalamu alaikom everyone i hope you are all happy and well inshallah,

I keep hearing of sunnis saying that Shia's are kafir and do shirk?? um i dont know much of this, from what i have gathered its something to do with relying on others then only Allah swt?? please can you clear this up for me and explain why they saying this and why its wrong thank you.

Wasalam

http://www.youtube.com/user/amskhan2007

Watch any of the videos at random, but in a one word answer to your question would be 'shirazi'

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people call each other names but in reality they both commit shirk

shirk is for god to share his attributes with others or have associates or partners

the mujasima ( wahabies and salafies undet the hanbaly school) describe god by the descriptions of the created

and the ghulat of the shia describe the humans by the description of god similar to the idea of jesus

If you want details i could elaborate inshallah

salaam

Salam ok yes please do elaborate that would be helpfull

and thank you for replies, i am trying to grasp an understanding of why there are conflicts and due to what issues/differences, as a convert initially coming to Islam i was vaguely unaware of the fact there were different sects, i learnt about the onr quran and about Allah swt and His last prophet Mohammad pbuh, when i accepted islam it was based on this basic knowledge, so i obviously have much to learn.

Thanks guys jazakallah

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Salam

Any person that says : " Ashhadou an la eylaha ella Allah wa ashadu anna Mohammad abdouwhou wa rasuowlouh" is considered Muslim and thus shall not be called as Kafir. Some of the Sunni people say to Shia Kafir and some Shia people say to Sunni Kafir, but that deosn't mean that all of them do that. It only means that these people saying that are Ignorant. A muslim shall not call another muslim Kafir no matter what because you never know what happens with that muslim if they were doing bad things maybe in the future or before their death they will repent.

SARA

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According to Ahl Sunna Aqeedha, any body rejecting the rightly guided calipha is a none believer.

A lie, a miconception, false understanding etc etc.

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It's the wahabis who think so.. They claim anyone except for them is kafir..

Sunnis know that Shia are muslims.. And, they falsely claim that shia is misguided in some ways..

www.youtube.com/watch?v=32gPOA44wCQ

Edited by HamzaTR

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Not all Wahabbis and Sunnis are brain-dead enough to call Shias Kafir...I have some great Wahabbi and Sunni friends who at many occasions have stood by me against their hostile kind..Hostility is not just confined to them. Ive heard many shias go that way as well..Tolerance is the key here...perhaps these differences were only created to teach us the true meaning of tolerance.

Obviously, some people will never understand so there's not point in reasoning with them.

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A lie, a miconception, false understanding etc etc.

I disagree with you, not know, but tomorrow Inshallah i will post hadith from Sunni's source to confirm

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Aslamalaykum,

@Belle

I keep hearing of sunnis saying that Shia's are kafir

Only the Jahils amongst sunnis would say this, if they understood islam properly then they would realise that there are no better muslims than the shias.

Listen to this lecture from the famous sunni lecturer Sheikh Ahmed Deedat when he came back from his visit in Iran after the islamic revolution.

http://www.inminds.com/unity.html

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Asalamu alaikom everyone i hope you are all happy and well inshallah,

I keep hearing of sunnis saying that Shia's are kafir and do shirk?? um i dont know much of this, from what i have gathered its something to do with relying on others then only Allah swt?? please can you clear this up for me and explain why they saying this and why its wrong thank you.

Wasalam

its probably better asking such question in a sunni forum but I guess there are 2 reasons

1) ali ra and ahlelbayt are same level of the prophets as and are divine,infallible and share some attributes of Allah swt which leads to shirk in the eyes of the accusers and degrading of the prophet pbuh and his sunnah

2) abuse and cursing of the sahabah which has some emotional elements

my opinion is you cannot blanket judge everybody and if a person says to you that I believe in Allah swt and his prophet pbuh (e.g. tawhid and finality of nabuwwah, quran, sunnah etc) then he is a muslim

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Asalamu alaikom everyone i hope you are all happy and well inshallah,

I keep hearing of sunnis saying that Shia's are kafir and do shirk?? um i dont know much of this, from what i have gathered its something to do with relying on others then only Allah swt?? please can you clear this up for me and explain why they saying this and why its wrong thank you.

Wasalam

but there are shia scholars such as yassir al habib who call sunni kaffirs.must watch last 2 minutes of this video.

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please don't call yassir al habib shia.. don't share his thoughts.. he is no shia scholar.. he is a ghulat..

he disobeys Welayah al-Faqih.. Syed Nasrallah says he is not recognised by shia muslims.. and shouldn't be.. thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRYdg0ch15g

Edited by HamzaTR

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A lie, a miconception, false understanding etc etc.

THE SHIA DENIAL OF THE COMPANIONSHIP ( ) OF HAZRAT

ABU BAKAR AND LEVELLING OF FALSE ALLEGATIONS (

SLANDER) AGAINST HAZRAT AAISHA (R.A.) THE BELOVED WIFE

OF THE PROPHET (SAW) RENDER THEM KAFIR. ALLAMA IBN

ABBIDIN WRITES: THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT A PERSON BEING

KAFIR WHO LAUNCHES A CHARGE AGAINST THE CHASTITY OF

HAZRAT AAISHA (ra) OR DENIES THE COMPANIONSHIP ( ) OF

HAZRAT ABU BAKAR." (SHAMI, VOL. II, P. 294).

THE SAME ALLAMA AT ANOTHER PLACE IN THIS VERY BOOK HAS

WRITTEN THAT SHIAH ARE MURTADS (APOSTATES) AND LIABLE

TO BE KILLED. (SHAMI, VOL. II, P. 683).

THE SUBJECT MATTER OF THE QUESTION, I.E. RAFIDA (

SHIAS ARE ALSO CALLED RAFIDA WHICH MEANS DENIERS OF

THE CALIPHATE OF HAZRAT ABU BAKAR, UMAR AND USMAN) ARE

NOT ONLY MURTAD, (APOSTATE) KAFIR AND OUTSIDE THE PALE

OF ISLAM BUT ARE ALSO ENEMIES OF ISLAM AND MUSLIMS TO

SUCH A DEGREE THAT THE OTHERS WOULD FOUND WANTING IN

THIS FIELD. MUSLIMS SHOULD CUT-OFF ALL ISLAMIC TIES

AND RELATIONSHIPS WITH THEM ESPECIALLY THE BONDS OF

MARRIAGE BECAUSE BY DOING SO EITHER ONE INDULGES IN

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please don't call yassir al habib shia.. don't share his thoughts.. he is no shia scholar.. he is a ghulat..

he disobeys Welayah al-Faqih.. Syed Nasrallah says he is not recognised by shia muslims.. and shouldn't be.. thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRYdg0ch15g

masha Allah.

does hassan nassarallah believe that cursing/disrespecting the companions is not allowed in shia islam?

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Watch any of the videos at random, but in a one word answer to your question would be 'shirazi'

So all the hatred and defamation of Shi'ah from the time of Muawiyah onwards is to do with agha Shirazi?

Because they see Shias whiping them selfs.

Ironically this is now used less and less as a 'reason' for Shi'ah kufr, there clerics point to other (false) theological reasons.

but there are shia scholars such as yassir al habib who call sunni kaffirs.must watch last 2 minutes of this video.

Did the OP ask about Shi'ah being called kafir or sunni?

please don't call yassir al habib shia.. don't share his thoughts.. he is no shia scholar.. he is a ghulat..

he disobeys Welayah al-Faqih..

This is a condition for being Shi'ah? Weird, can't find it any books of Imami aquaid.

ALI

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do you kow why they call us kafirs ?

look at the nickname of mr kismat110 and many others who put this poem

"Haiderium Qualandaram Mastam"

ask them what does this mean ?

<sigh> this so-called Shi'ah has busted me. A poem (written by a SUNNI saint) is the reason why sunnis have been calling Shi'ah kafir for 1400 years.

It translates roughly as "I am Haideri, joyous derwish" *- joyous with love of Maula Ali (as)

@alimohamad40: I suggest you mention this to Shi'ah clerics first chance you get so they can issue a fatwa against this poem and the problem will cease overnight.

Allah (jjh) please bestow deficient Shi'ah the gift of 'aql.

ALI

Edited by Kismet110

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<sigh> this so-called Shi'ah has busted me. A poem (written by a SUNNI saint) is the reason why sunnis have been calling Shi'ah kafir for 1400 years.

It translates roughly as "I am Haideri, joyous derwish" *- joyous with love of Maula Ali (as)

@alimohamad40: I suggest you mention this to Shi'ah clerics first chance you get so they can issue a fatwa against this poem and the problem will cease overnight.

Allah (jjh) please bestow deficient Shi'ah the gift of 'aql.

ALI

brother the poem says am drunk in the love of ali or some thing like that

am drunk means i lose my mind it means i am obsessed it means i am GHALI ( mughali)

we have to refrain from exageration , thats why they call us kafirs

if there was no truth in thier claim no one would take them seriosuly but the sad thing is there is some truth in what they claim

i heard so called scholars on the minbar say that the only difference between god and mohamad is one degree !!!

they limit god by thier exageration

i also heard one say " do you disbeleive in Ali and he is the one who created you"

the whabies make a correct point about the extreme gulu that exists amongst us but unfortunately they forget thier own shirk and tajseem and they are agressive .... i mean if you belive the other side is kafir it doesnt mean you wage war against them even if they havnt initiated agression against you

the quraan is against initiating agression

if people dont initiate agressio nagainst each other then it woudlnt matter they can call each other whatever names

salaam</sigh>

Edited by alimohamad40

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Right, another topic muslims relish to sink their teeth into to create more drift and divide between muslims. There is a very lengthy rationalle behind certain muslims being called polytheists (isn't there always a long story?), but first a few points have to be remembered..

Firstly, anyone who testifies to the Oneness of Allah (SWT) and that Mohammad (sawa) is his Messenger, verbally as well as (this is the crucial tid bit) in their actions in their daily life, is automatically a muslim, whether they follow the mainstream sunni schools of though (Hanafi, shafai, handali etc) or the Ahlulbayt school of thought.

We have to remember as muslims our similarities FAR exceed our differences. The sorrowful state of Islamic countries and societies today is because we quarrel with each other yet we're the first to preach to followers of other religions about tolerance and brotherly love

Different schools in Islam have reach different theological conclusions about certain topics (eg the Infallibility of a person preaching the word of God, the intercession of Ahlulbayt for people who (key point) deserve intercession, etcetera), and reaching different conclusions is fine. No doubt we have to be firm in what be believe in, conduct insightful exchanges of ideas (the word debate has become dirtied these days), and in the end of the day if the other side's information has not been enough to convince us to change our stance, we would agree to disagree, always exercising tolerance. If we are not debating each other because we love for the other side to attain a better understanding of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, then what are we debating for in the first place? Usually to prove ourselves right and others wrong, unfortunately in most cases.

People who call others polytheists, for the most part, have been mislead by their scholars, because their scholars feel threatened by certain schools of thought, and feel they need to spread rumour and hearsay to prevent their congregation from doing their own research and coming to their own conclusions. Nelson Mandela said the only way to overcome apartheid is not to tell people what to think, but to tell people how to think. Then that person becomes a thinker. Information in various resources are a-plentiful in today's cyber world, everyone should do their own research and come to a theological conclusion that makes THEM sleep with ease at night. Following blindly never led to greener pastures.

In regards to why followers of the school of thought of Ahlul Bayt have reached particular conclusions to mainstream topics like Intercession, infalliblity, and Allah's Uniqueness (in the sense that He will never be seen), i can go into further detail should anyone have a particular question about these.

And Allah knows best

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Asalamu alaikom everyone i hope you are all happy and well inshallah,

I keep hearing of sunnis saying that Shia's are kafir and do shirk?? um i dont know much of this, from what i have gathered its something to do with relying on others then only Allah swt?? please can you clear this up for me and explain why they saying this and why its wrong thank you.

Wasalam

They say this because they don't have a damn clue what Kufar and Shirk is. It's all due to lack of knowledge and understanding about Islam.

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hassan nasarullah is in taqiyya.

Taqiyya about what? Who is he afraid of that he has to hide his belief? Do you even know what taqiyya is retard? I share his belief. I completely without any force or pressure believe that cursing is not the way to go. If you dont believe that then you are for sure a Jahil and of the same people who used to bury their daughters alive before Prophet spread Islam.

May Allah increase your hatred and make you more blind and you spend your life proving shia's wrong then working on your akhira.

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