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In the Name of God بسم الله

Broken Rib Of J.zahra (as) - Refuting Nawasib Lies

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This is a response to the 'un broken rib' film in which the nawasib provided clips of batris and deviant scholars to speak on this issue. When we look in the shia muslims books, and the books of the bakris, we find numerous narrations and historical references regarding the oppression which took place against Fatema zahra(a.s).

Like usual though, the deviant bakri sect will try finding an escape route, and will call these narrations weak or fabricated. The biggest proof that Fatima zahra (a.s) was oppressed goes back to a narration regarding fadak, where she claimed her right to inheritance which was stole by Abu bakr (l.a) thus she died angry and stopped speaking to him. We may ask though is this the only reason? Well if we look at this logically, and at the evidence that exists, they all link back to the same narration in bukhari and they all highlight oppression and injustice done against her by the tyrants abu bakr and umar (l.a).

First Question: Are there any authentic Sunni references that highlight Umar's actions at the home of Sayyida Fatima (as)?

The answer is there are. We read in Musnaf of Imam Ibn Abi Shebah, Volume 7 page 432 Tradition 37045:

"Narrated Muhammad bin Bashir from Ubaidllah bin Umar from Zaid bin Aslam that his father Aslam said: 'When the homage (baya) went to Abu Bakr after the Messenger of Allah, Ali and Zubair were entering into the house of Fatima to consult her and revise their issue, so when Umar came to know about that, he went to Fatima and said : 'Oh daughter of Messenger of Allah, no one is dearest to us more than your father and no one dearest to us after your father than you, I swear by Allah, if these people gathered in your house then nothing will prevent me from giving order to burn the house and those who are inside.'

So when Umar left, they (Ali and Zubair) came , so she (Fatima) said to them: 'Do you know that Umar came here and swore by Allah to burn the house if you gather here, I swear by God that he (Umar) will execute his oath, so please leave wisely and take a decision and don't gather here again.' So they left her and didn't gather there till they give baya to Abu Bakr."

All the narrators are authentic as they are the narrators of Sahih Bukhari & Sahih Muslim. Muhammad bin Bashir: Imam Al-Dhahabi said: 'Thabt' (Al-Kaashif, v2 p159), Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: 'Thiqa' (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v2 p58).Ubaidllah bin Umar: Al-Dhahabi said: 'Thabt' (Al-Kaashif, v1 p685), Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: 'Thiqa Thabt' (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p637). Zaid bin Aslam: Al-Dhahabi said: 'Hujja' (Siar alam alnubala, v5 p316), Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: 'Thiqa' (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p326). Aslam al-Qurashi (the slave of Umar): Al-Dhahabi said: 'Faqih, Imam' (Siar alam alnubala, v4 p98), Ibn Hajar Asqalani said: 'Thiqa' (Taqrib al-Tahdib, v1 p88).

To find out more on this issue and see how bakris lie and try denying their own books of hadith and history , please read this article here: <a class="yt-uix-redirect-link" dir="ltr" href="http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/fadak/en/chap12.php" rel="nofollow" style="color: purple;" target="_blank" title="http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/fadak/en/chap12.php">http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/fadak/en/chap12.php

Edited by hesham102001
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  • 2 weeks later...

Please stop bringing up this fabricated topic, it is an insult to Ali KAW! If this actually happened this would mean Ali KAW did nothing at all to Umar R.A and Abu Bakr R.A which seems strange due to his bravery and how he was respected.

1. Why did Ali KAW give Umar R.A his daughter to marry?

2. Why is it when Abu Bakr R.A died, Ali KAW took his wife and married her and looked after her and also adopted his son, is this not love?

3. Why did Ali KAW name 2 of his sons Abu Bakr and Umar?

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Please stop bringing up this fabricated topic, it is an insult to Ali KAW! If this actually happened this would mean Ali KAW did nothing at all to Umar R.A and Abu Bakr R.A which seems strange due to his bravery and how he was respected.

1. Why did Ali KAW give Umar R.A his daughter to marry?

2. Why is it when Abu Bakr R.A died, Ali KAW took his wife and married her and looked after her and also adopted his son, is this not love?

3. Why did Ali KAW name 2 of his sons Abu Bakr and Umar?

1.If you put aside some zaeef elements of our books,most of our ulema don't agree with the first point,they have proved it wrong too,this umm e kulsum was abu bakr's daughter ,not of Imam Ali(as).Its beyond possibility what you people claim.

2.He took His wife because she was pious,she gave testimony on behalf of Janab e Zahra(as) in the matter of fadak,Aasia(as) was in nikah of firoun so he becomes a better one then?

3.These are all mixed up narrations which say so about the names of His sons,none of them was abu bakr,and umar.

And you said its against the bravery of Imam Ali(as),no it was not,when He knew drawing a sword means the diversion of people from Islam for their personal interests.He put Religion over His own self,and family.Have n't you read Ahadees which say ''the real brave is one who controls His anger''.So how does it effect His bravery in negative sense?it makes Him even more.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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It is strange to you but not to us Shias. If you read the narrations, you will find that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) gave Imam Ali (as) very important advice and warning about what was to come. He (pbuh) told him (as) that he would be tested in ways no other person can possibly bear, and he was talking precisely about the death of Fatima (as) . The Prophet (pbuh) was expressing his wish for Imam Ali (as) to exercise incredible patience when dealing with the Shaykhayn and the opponents of his Imamat.

Someone on this website posted these ahadith quite a while ago, and they dictate what happened the night the door was brought down upon Lady Fatima (as) . In a nutshell, when Umar and co. burst into his house, Imam Ali (as) held up Umar by the sleeve like a tissue paper, and muttered to him (probably butchering what he said exactly, so please excuse me for that) "were it not for the Prophet's warning and wish on his deathbed, I would have slit all your throats right here". After that it's unclear what happened, but one can guess that Imam Ali (as) surrendered by dropping his sword, and then got dragged by the neck to Masjid un Nabwi, where he was forced to pledge allegiance.

Now let's examine what would have happened if Imam Ali (as) did continue to resist. Behind the scenes, a degenerate known as Abu Sufyan came to Imam Ali to offer his support in order to topple the Khilafat. If Imam Ali (as) accepted his request, we would have had a civil war ensuing upon a Muslim empire that was barely out of it's diapers, and other empires would take advantage of this opportunity and collapse Islam from within, and we would not have it in such a majority today if that would have happened.

You Sunnis need to get it through your thick skulls that Imam Ali had no other choice but to undergo such hard trials with the greatest patience, all for the sake of Islam. This is all well-documented in your own books, you just need to look deeper. Bravery does not encompass only the willingness to kill no matter what... It also goes hand in hand with patience. Imam Ali had to bear with it.

Now I will turn this around on you and ask you something. Why is it that the entire 18 years (or whatever the number of years he had with Rasulallah) Imam Ali had taken part in every single battle (except Tabuk of-course) alongside the Prophet (pbuh), while after his death, he did not participate in a SINGLE battle during Abu Bakr, Umar, and Usman's reign? Do you find not find it even a tad bit strange that the man honored with the title Lion of God was refusing to fight under your three demigods? I know I do.

Now to answer your three questions,

1. Imam Ali was very much forced to hand his daughter to Umar. It's very well documented in your books, go look it up. It doesn't put Umar in a good spotlight, not one bit.

2. I have never read about Imam Ali marrying Abu Bakr's wife. I don't find this credible. Also, how in the hell is raising the son of a deceased enemy a sign of love to the enemy?

3. According to what I had read, Abu Bakr and Umar were VERY common names among the Arabs. We also have narrations that confirm that his sons were not named after the Shaykhayn.

I really wonder how devoid of common sense Sunnis can be, so much so that they are programmed from the very beginning not to question any event whatsoever...

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2. I have never read about Imam Ali marrying Abu Bakr's wife. I don't find this credible. Also, how in the hell is raising the son of a deceased enemy a sign of love to the enemy?

Imam `Ali (a) married Asma bint Umais, the widow of Ja`far ibn Abi Talib, and then of Abu Bakr. She was also the mother of Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr, who the Imam (a) raised, and who became one of his staunchest allies.

http://www.*******.org/rijal/rijal-al-kashshi/muhammad-b-abi-bakr

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^^to brother replicant' nemesis

Very good effort brother but Bibi Kulsoom(as) never married that man,its a myth only,she was too young,secondly Her Father is same who did n't let enemies dig out her mother's grave let alone He could give the hand of His daughter.Its against the honour of Ahlebait(as).You see Lady Zainab(as) in court of yazeed did n't let anyone get near her Sister,or in some traditions a niece,when demanded in slavery by a syrian courtier.So when daughter could prevent them how could a Father be forced? They know how to protect their honour.When yazeed could n't think of trying such act of forcing any honorable lady,when they were detained by him,how could umar dared to do so?

And for his sons's names,its also said He only names his one son as usman,and that was after his sahabi not the third one.

And yes Imam Ali(as) married abu bakr's widow.Bibi Asma binte umais was one who gave testimony on Bibi Fatima(as)'s behalf against abu bakr,and her son Muhammad bin abu bakr cut the legs of she camel of ayesha(his step sister) when she got defeated in jamal war.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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^^to brother replicant' nemesis

Very good effort brother but Bibi Kulsoom(as) never married that man,its a myth only,she was too young,secondly Her Father is same who did n't let enemies dig out her mother's grave let alone He could give the hand of His daughter.Its against the honour of Ahlebait(as).You see Lady Zainab(as) in court of yazeed did n't let anyone get near her Sister,or in some traditions a niece,when demanded in slavery by a syrian courtier.So when daughter could prevent them how could a Father be forced? They know how to protect their honour.When yazeed could n't think of trying such act of forcing any honorable lady,when they were detained by him,how could umar dared to do so?

And for his sons's names,its also said He only names his one son as usman,and that was after his sahabi not the third one.

And yes Imam Ali(as) married abu bakr's widow.Bibi Asma binte umais was one who gave testimony on Bibi Fatima(as)'s behalf against abu bakr,and her son Muhammad bin abu bakr cut the legs of she camel of ayesha(his step sister) when she got defeated in jamal war.

(salam)

I'm skeptical about the incident of someone like Umar marrying a pure lady like Umm Kulthum (as) as well, but I don't entirely reject this for one main reason: we have a plethora of ahadith in our own books that this happened, and the way they narrate to us this incident, one can conclude that Umar basically threatened Imam Ali's (as) family if he refused.

There is also speculation that this Umm Kulthum was perhaps the daughter of Abu Bakr and not Imam Ali (as) himself. Like I said, I'm unsure and skeptical, Wallahu Alam. Even if it was the latter, it still was someone Imam Ali (as) protected, and still exhibits the same moral: cruelty and oppression from Umar. Umm Kulthum bint Abu Bakr was as dear to Imam Ali (as) as Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr was, so either way, Umar will burn in hell for this (among other numerous crimes).

Fi Amanillah

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(salam)

I'm skeptical about the incident of someone like Umar marrying a pure lady like Umm Kulthum (as) as well, but I don't entirely reject this for one main reason: we have a plethora of ahadith in our own books that this happened, and the way they narrate to us this incident, one can conclude that Umar basically threatened Imam Ali's (as) family if he refused.

There is also speculation that this Umm Kulthum was perhaps the daughter of Abu Bakr and not Imam Ali (as) himself. Like I said, I'm unsure and skeptical, Wallahu Alam. Even if it was the latter, it still was someone Imam Ali (as) protected, and still exhibits the same moral: cruelty and oppression from Umar. Umm Kulthum bint Abu Bakr was as dear to Imam Ali (as) as Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr was, so either way, Umar will burn in hell for this (among other numerous crimes).

Fi Amanillah

Brother if you look at plethora of Ahadees,there is barely a mention of Kulsoom binte Ali(as),only kulsum is mentioned so it no ways indicate towards it.

Secondly our ulema are much more expert in judgement of Ahadees,and most of them have refuted this incident.Its against the chastity of such Lady to believe in this stuff,how could He be forced? When He did n't let anyone to dig out the grave of His wife.but kusum binte abu bakr was not his daughter even if He was not willing He could n't prevent it.

As i quoted that Lady Zainab(as) did n't let anyone get near the honor of her family Her sister in court of yazeed then its beyond comprehension,how could Her Father be forced?

Allah knows how to protect the Honour of Ahlebait(as),as we see the women who were to marry Imams(as) could n't be accessed by any man in the world,even if he was a king,then She was even more sacred,being a Daughter of Khatoon e Jannat(as).

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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Brother if you look at plethora of Ahadees,there is barely a mention of Kulsoom binte Ali(as),only kulsum is mentioned so it no ways indicate towards it.

From Sulaymaan bin Khaalid he said: “I asked Abaa `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) about a woman whose husband dies, where should she do her `iddah, in the house of her husband, or wherever she wants? He (عليه السلام) said: “Yes, wherever she wants”, then he (عليه السلام) said: “That `Alee (عليه السلام) brought Umm Kulthoom to his home when she became free, when `Umar died”

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 6, pg. 115, hadeeth # 1

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq (Reliable)

à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 21, pg. 197

2. Al-Majlisi I (Al-Majlisi’s Father) said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)

à RawDah Al-Muttaqqoon, vol. 9, pg. 89

3. Al-Meelaanee said this hadeeth has a SaHeeH Sanad

à Tazawwaj Umm Kulthoom with `Umar, pg. 28

à MaHaaDiraat fee Al-`Itiqaadaat, vol. 2, pg. 696

From `Abd Allaah bin Sinaan and Mu`aawiyah bin `Ammaar from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام): He said: I asked about the women whose husband dies, can she do her `iddah in her house or wherever she wants? He (عليه السلام) said: “It is wherever she wants, that `Alee (عليه السلام) brought Umm Kulthoom to his home when she became free, when `Umar died”

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 6, pg. 115, hadeeth # 2

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)

à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 21, pg. 199

2. Al-Majlisi I (Al-Majlisi’s Father) said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq Kal-SaHeeH (Reliable like a SaHeeH (hadeeth))

à RawDah Al-Muttaqqoon, vol. 9, pg. 89

From Zuraarah from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) said about the marriage of Umm Kulthoom. So he (عليه السلام) said: “That this was the farj* that was forced (coerced) from us

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 5, pg. 346, hadeeth # 1

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Hasan (Good)

à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 20, pg. 42

2. Al-Meelaanee said this hadeeth has a SaHeeH Sanad

à Tazawwaj Umm Kulthoom with `Umar, pg. 30

à MaHaaDiraat fee Al-`Itiqaadaat, vol. 2, pg. 696

From Al-QadaaH from Ja`far (Al-Saadiq) (عليه السلام) from his father (عليه السلام) He said: “Umm Kulthoom, daughter of `Alee (عليه السلام), and her son Zayd bin `Umar bin Al-KhaTTaab died at the same time. They did not know who passed away before, so they did not inherit from one another, and they prayed (the funeral prayer) upon them together”

Source:

1. Al-Toosi, Tahdheeb Al-aHkaam, vol. 9, ch. 36, pg. 362, hadeeth # 15

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Majhool (Unknown)

à Milaadh Al-Akhyaar, vol. 15, pg. 382

Hishaam bin Saalim from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) he said: “When he (`Umar) address (proposed) to him (`Alee). Ameer Al-Mu’mineen (عليه السلام) said to him “She is a child”. He said: So he (`Umar) met Al-`Abbaas and he said to him: “What is wrong with me? Is there a problem with me?” He (Abbaas) said: “And what is the matter?” He (Umar) said: “I addressed (proposed) before your brother's son (nephew), and he denied me. I swear by Allaah, I will fill the zamzam, leave no honor for you without being destroyed. I will bring two witnesses upon him and (prove) he (is guilty) of theft, and I will cut his right (hand)!” Then Al-`Abbaas went to him (Imaam `Alee) and gave him the news (of what happened). And he (Abbaas) asked him (`Alee) to put the matter to him (Abbaas). And he (`Alee) agreed.”

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 5, pg. 346, hadeeth # 2

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Hasan (Good)

à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 20, pg. 42

2. Al-Meelaanee said this hadeeth has a SaHeeH Sanad

à Tazawwaj Umm Kulthoom with `Umar, pg. 28

à MaHaaDiraat fee Al-`Itiqaadaat, vol. 2, pg. 696

Secondly our ulema are much more expert in judgement of Ahadees,and most of them have refuted this incident.

Sayyid Al-Khoei:

Question:Is it SaHeeH (authentic) that the second caliph (`Umar) married the daughter of Imaam `Alee (عليه السلام)?

Answer: Such has been mentioned in history and narrations.

http://www.revivinga...mm-kulthum.html

Edited by Haydar Husayn
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From Sulaymaan bin Khaalid he said: “I asked Abaa `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) about a woman whose husband dies, where should she do her `iddah, in the house of her husband, or wherever she wants? He (عليه السلام) said: “Yes, wherever she wants”, then he (عليه السلام) said: “That `Alee (عليه السلام) brought Umm Kulthoom to his home when she became free, when `Umar died”

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 6, pg. 115, hadeeth # 1

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq (Reliable)

à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 21, pg. 197

2. Al-Majlisi I (Al-Majlisi’s Father) said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)

à RawDah Al-Muttaqqoon, vol. 9, pg. 89

3. Al-Meelaanee said this hadeeth has a SaHeeH Sanad

à Tazawwaj Umm Kulthoom with `Umar, pg. 28

à MaHaaDiraat fee Al-`Itiqaadaat, vol. 2, pg. 696

From `Abd Allaah bin Sinaan and Mu`aawiyah bin `Ammaar from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام): He said: I asked about the women whose husband dies, can she do her `iddah in her house or wherever she wants? He (عليه السلام) said: “It is wherever she wants, that `Alee (عليه السلام) brought Umm Kulthoom to his home when she became free, when `Umar died”

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 6, pg. 115, hadeeth # 2

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)

à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 21, pg. 199

2. Al-Majlisi I (Al-Majlisi’s Father) said this hadeeth is Muwaththaq Kal-SaHeeH (Reliable like a SaHeeH (hadeeth))

à RawDah Al-Muttaqqoon, vol. 9, pg. 89

From Zuraarah from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) said about the marriage of Umm Kulthoom. So he (عليه السلام) said: “That this was the farj* that was forced (coerced) from us

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 5, pg. 346, hadeeth # 1

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Hasan (Good)

à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 20, pg. 42

2. Al-Meelaanee said this hadeeth has a SaHeeH Sanad

à Tazawwaj Umm Kulthoom with `Umar, pg. 30

à MaHaaDiraat fee Al-`Itiqaadaat, vol. 2, pg. 696

From Al-QadaaH from Ja`far (Al-Saadiq) (عليه السلام) from his father (عليه السلام) He said: “Umm Kulthoom, daughter of `Alee (عليه السلام), and her son Zayd bin `Umar bin Al-KhaTTaab died at the same time. They did not know who passed away before, so they did not inherit from one another, and they prayed (the funeral prayer) upon them together”

Source:

1. Al-Toosi, Tahdheeb Al-aHkaam, vol. 9, ch. 36, pg. 362, hadeeth # 15

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Majhool (Unknown)

à Milaadh Al-Akhyaar, vol. 15, pg. 382

Hishaam bin Saalim from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) he said: “When he (`Umar) address (proposed) to him (`Alee). Ameer Al-Mu’mineen (عليه السلام) said to him “She is a child”. He said: So he (`Umar) met Al-`Abbaas and he said to him: “What is wrong with me? Is there a problem with me?” He (Abbaas) said: “And what is the matter?” He (Umar) said: “I addressed (proposed) before your brother's son (nephew), and he denied me. I swear by Allaah, I will fill the zamzam, leave no honor for you without being destroyed. I will bring two witnesses upon him and (prove) he (is guilty) of theft, and I will cut his right (hand)!” Then Al-`Abbaas went to him (Imaam `Alee) and gave him the news (of what happened). And he (Abbaas) asked him (`Alee) to put the matter to him (Abbaas). And he (`Alee) agreed.”

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 5, pg. 346, hadeeth # 2

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Hasan (Good)

à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 20, pg. 42

2. Al-Meelaanee said this hadeeth has a SaHeeH Sanad

à Tazawwaj Umm Kulthoom with `Umar, pg. 28

à MaHaaDiraat fee Al-`Itiqaadaat, vol. 2, pg. 696

Sayyid Al-Khoei:

Question:Is it SaHeeH (authentic) that the second caliph (`Umar) married the daughter of Imaam `Alee (عليه السلام)?

Answer: Such has been mentioned in history and narrations.

http://www.revivinga...mm-kulthum.html

First of all i said ulema,i think its a plural form,secondly who can confirm that it was really his stance he is no more in this world.

And the narrations you mentioned above,most of them are referring to Umm e Kulsum,not bint e Ali(as) it was kulsum binte abu bakr,secondly some of rijaal books declare these traditions zaeef as well.

And this nader blog is not there to guide us in our faith,the year which is told is such when She was a child,and Sheikh Mufeed refuted this incident too.''THE CLASSICAL ONE'',but no classical ones are only good as long as they say something accommodating for your beliefs,otherwise even a blogger can supercede them.

We read in Nasehkul Tawareekh Volume 3 page 408:

"Umar bin Adheena asked Imam Ja'far Sadiq (as) 'People claim that 'Ali married his daughter to such a person'. The Imam, who was until then sitting down, stood up and said angrily, "Whoever holds such a viewpoint is misled." Subhanallah! Was Imam 'Ali unable to free his daughter from their clutches? He could have stood between them and her to protect, they have fabricated a lie".

Muhammad Fadli bin Shaza bin Khaleel Nishapuri was a leading Shi'a authority of his time and had the benefit of sitting in the midst of Imam Reza (as), Imam Reza (as), Imam Naqi (as), Imam Taqi (as) and Imam al Askari (as). On this topic he stated categorically:

"People have assumed that Umar married Umme Kalthum binte Fatima, rather he married Umme Kalthum binte Jarweela Khuzeema"

Tareekh al Qum Shaykh Saduq, by Muhammad Nishapur page 193, published in Tehran

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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I am confused...Now on which it can be believed???? that Hazrat ALI A.S. married the widow of Hazrat Abu Bakar or not????????

Yes he married his widow thats not controversial but its a fact.

here we are discussing Bibi Kulsoom,daughter of Imam Ali(as) refuting the allegation of her marriage with umar.

But Imam Ali(as) married Asma binte Umais(as),widow of abu bakr,don't be confused.

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