Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Baka

Female Abuse.

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Can a wife hit her husband?

Does islam have anything to say about abuse of men from women?

According to Islamic texts? No.

Do husbands deserve a kick up the backside? Yes.

I've just summarised the whole thread. You pick your side. I've picked mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to Islamic texts? No.

Do husbands deserve a kick up the backside? Yes.

I've just summarised the whole thread. You pick your side. I've picked mine.

:no: So defensive, I pray you are not going through something which has resulted in this attribute.

Anyway, my contribution: If Islam frowns upon the husband beating his wife (other than extreme circumstances), then what about a woman abusing her husband. Even if certain men deserve it, such actions do not solve anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

According to Islamic texts? No.

Do husbands deserve a kick up the backside? Yes.

I've just summarised the whole thread. You pick your side. I've picked mine.

Why to resort to such means, why not sort it out like a mature and sensible person and step aside before things take this vicious turn,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:no: So defensive, I pray you are not going through something which has resulted in this attribute.

Anyway, my contribution: If Islam frowns upon the husband beating his wife (other than extreme circumstances), then what about a woman abusing her husband. Even if certain men deserve it, such actions do not solve anything.

See? All I did was state facts, and you find it hard to digest.

The fact is, whether it's with a miswak or not, Islam gives the husband the right to give his wife a good old whack across the head. But if the husband deserves a smack, it is not allowed for the wife to hit him, and I wouldn't be surprised if she was cursed for even considering it too.

Can I just point out something? You said that even if certain men deserve it, SUCH ACTIONS DO NOT SOLVE ANYTHING.

Oh, ok but hitting women solves something right?

Edited by KimK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you even read the verse on it ? are you even a muslim? if you are not a muslim why are you here doing all this hard work? and if you are and you just have not read the verse then maybe that is a good lace to start before you start condemning something then you can see what Ahlul Byat (as) said, and what scholars have stated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you even read the verse on it ? are you even a muslim? if you are not a muslim why are you here doing all this hard work? and if you are and you just have not read the verse then maybe that is a good lace to start before you start condemning something then you can see what Ahlul Byat (as) said, and what scholars have stated.

Yes, I've read the whole Koran. Am I misinterpreting the verse? It clearly says 'beat' - now, how that is performed is irrelevant.

Now why don't you go ahead and answer my previous post? Stop beating around the bush and attack me, just because you don't have an answer!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

here give it a read

http://corpus.quran....pter=4&verse=34

try to think on the verse for a while.

it seems to be The beat part is a last option as some may note that it list two other options before that the woman could at anytime stop this and no need to move to the 2nd or third stage. and a Good believing Muslim woman will never ever ever have such a thing done to her, if her husband knows this verse as well. every word means something in that verse think about it very deeply re read it many times and come back later today or tomorrow and tell me if you are still thinking the same way.

Edited by Maitham

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How could it possibly help alleviate the heated situation? Will your wife suddenly come back to her senses all because of a stick poke? More like, she'll be mentally insulted by such an action.

Does Islam place hitting the wife over rational dialogue? And why did Islam legislate hitting the wife to begin with? What's the wisdom in that? The proper way would be to discuss the issue and if all fails, divorce. Beating would just lead to divorce anyway,, so its just nonsensical ..

Actually it is a 3 step procedure Kim,

1---Dialogue/ Discussion

2---Distance

3---Physical Admonishment,

-------wife does have the right to end things ( i.e., divorce, ) before the 3rd stage is likely to take place

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually it is a 3 step procedure Kim,

1---Dialogue/ Discussion

2---Distance

3---Physical Admonishment,

-------wife does have the right to end things ( i.e., divorce, ) before the 3rd stage is likely to take place

Why can't it end at number 2? Honestly, what's the point of 3? It only aggravates the situation and leads to divorce ANYWAY!!

Edited by KimK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 is for when 1 don't work, 3 is for when 2 don't work. some women may be just mean and hold grudges. thus they should not play around.

Edited by Maitham

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately I have no idea why ?

but maybe sometimes it's better to reconcile things even after the 3rd stage, not every woman can sustain in outside world alone, Kim be sensible.

And do admit that there are some women who intentionally or unintentionally drive the men to the wall, hiding their deviousness behind men's anger has been a favourite sport of women through the history. Still, sometimes it's not good to end things just like that.

I am not condoning violence or something, but you are seeing things from the perspective of a strong independent woman, I am seeing it from the perspective of 75% women of area I belong to,

Edited by ילדת מלך

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately I have no idea why ?

but maybe sometimes it's better to reconcile things even after the 3rd stage, not every woman can sustain in outside world alone, Kim be sensible.

And again I ask, Is it not possible to resolve after the second step? Why resort to beating at the end? How futile is that?

Woman who live in patriarchal societies can sustain themselves by getting a job. I thought the Mehr is supposed to act as financial security for the woman if she gets divorced? Even then, such women are vulnerable. How disgusting it is to beat vulnerable women!!

And do admit that there are some women who intentionally or unintentionally drive the men to the wall, hiding their deviousness behind men's anger has been a favourite sport of women through the history. Still, sometimes it's not good to end things just like that. 

Oh yes, and men are completely sinless, never show deviousness, never chauvinistic? Come on now......

It's not good to end with a beating before divorce. Beating would lead to divorce anyway..

I am not condoning violence or something, but you are seeing things from the perspective of a strong independent woman, I am seeing it from the perspective of 75% women of area I belong to,

So you advocate the beating of vulnerable women? 

But men can never get hit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes people just need a wake u and they are not after divorce. this is addressing personal martial issue. It probably could be resolved at the 1st or second stages even with no divorce.

You need to step down and humble yourself these are not some mans words this is revelation from god he knows the creation of man and women better than you and me. please take a few hours away from the message board go on that link i gave above and read and re read that verse and pondering on it in detail.

Edited by Maitham

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you advocate the beating of vulnerable women?

you perfectly knew that's not what I meant, but suit yourself.

Then what DID you mean? I've noticed a trend in this forum... Whenever they don't know the answer to a question, they insult and find an escape route. Pathetic.

Just say 'I don't know'.. Not hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then what DID you mean? I've noticed a trend in this forum... Whenever they don't know the answer to a question, they insult and find an escape route. Pathetic.

Just say 'I don't know'.. Not hard.

Pathetic ???

Learn to read before start abusing others.

The first sentence of my post was----Unfortunately I have no idea why ?

i admit that i have no concrete explanation, before calling me pathetic you should have read it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pathetic ???

Learn to read before start abusing others.

The first sentence of my post was----Unfortunately I have no idea why ?

i admit that i have no concrete explanation, before calling me pathetic you should have read it.

I wasn't calling you pathetic.. I'm calling the general approach to discussion pathetic.. I'm sorry if I offended you, sister, I didn't mean it that way. I just get very agitated when there's no explanation, and people resort to avoiding the question mark.

I'm glad you admitted ignorance on this topic, thank you. I might open a thread on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If a man loves AND respects his wife then there is absolutely NO reason for physical violence. Abuse will never "cure" any problem or situation.. if anything, it breaks any if not all connections between the two people... same goes for emotional abuse. and same goes for a wife towards her husband. Also, same goes for children. The point of disciplining your child is to put fear in them for the mistake they have done & learn that it is not acceptable.. For an adult, If communication doesn't resolve the problem then there is no use.

Yes, there are steps given to us to learn how to deal but I believe the true lesson is how to become a person who doesn't need to resort to this. If ANYONE takes it upon themselves to punish using violence and/or intimidation then it just shows they have failed to learn the idea of peace, respect, and forgiveness. Again, this is what I BELIEVE..

Maturity is key.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

QUR'AN: Men are the maintainers of women because of that with which Allah has made some of them to excel the others and be­cause of what they spend out of their property. "al-Qayyim" one who looks after the affairs of another person); al-qawwam and al-qayyam (give the same meaning in its highly emphasized form. The clause, "that with which Allah has made some of them to excel the others", refers to the natural characteristics of man in which he excels the woman; men have much greater judicious prudence than women, and consequently they are much stronger and braver and more capable of performing strenuous tasks requiring intrepidity and forbearance; while women's life is dominated by feelings and emotions and based on gracefulness and delicateness. The next phrase, "what they spend out of their property", refers to the wealth which men spend on women's dower and maintenance.

The generality of these causes shows that the resulting principle, "Men are the maintainers of women", is not confined to the husbands. In other words, it does not say that man is the main-tamer of his wife; rather it gives authority to the men, as a group, over the whole group of women, in the common affairs which effect lives of both sexes on the whole. The general social aspects which are related to man's excellence as, for example, rulership and judiciary, are the things on which a society depends for its continuence. It is because of the prudence and judiciousness which are found in men in a higher degree than in women. Likewise, the fight and defense depend on strength and far-reaching strategic planning. In such affairs men have authority over women.

Consequently, the order, Men are the maintainers of women, is totally unrestricted and comprehensive, while the next sentence, the good women are therefore obedient..., is apparently restricted to the relationship between a man and his wife, as will be explained later on. This next declaration has branched out from the above general principle; but it does not restrict its generality in any way.

QUR'AN: the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the un­seen as Allah has guarded: "as-Salah" (merit, virtue, goodness); "al-qunut" (abiding obedience and submission). Its place, opposite to, those on whose part you fear recalcitrance, shows that "the good women" means good wives; and that it is applied to them during continuance of matrimony, not before or after that; and that the sentence, "the good women are therefore obedient..." which gives an order in the form of praise, and means that they should be obedient and should guard... - is an order related to matrimonial affairs and domestic life. Even so, it is a command whose scope of jurisdiction depends on its basic cause - the man's maintaining the woman by virtue of marriage. It is therefore incumbent upon her to obey him and guard their mutual or conjugal affairs.

Let us explain it further. Men as a group have authority over women as a group in those common affairs which have more affin­ity with man's enhanced prudence and hardiness, i.e., rulership, judiciary and wax; but it does not negate the independence of woman in her individual will and activities, she decides what she wants and acts as she wishes and man has no right to interfere in any way - except when she intends to do something unlawful. In short, there is no restriction on them in whatever they want to do for themselves in a proper way. In the same way, husband's authority over the wife does not mean that she has lost control over her own self or property or is restricted in her will or action regarding its management; nor does it mean that woman is not free and independent in safeguarding and protecting her personal and social rights, nor is she hindered from adopting suitable means to achieve those rights. Rather it means that when the husband spends his wealth on her in return for conjugal rights, then she must obey and submit to him in all things connected with sexual intercourse (when he is present), and protect him in his absence - she should not betray him behind his back by having unlawful affairs with another man. Also she should not deceive him concerning the property which he gives her by virtue of matrimony as a partner in domestic life.

The sentence, "the good women are therefore obedient..." means that they should achieve goodness for themselves; then inevitably they would be obedient. In other words, they are obliged to submit to their husbands and obey them without fail in all matters pertaining to conjugal relations. Also they must safeguard their interest in all their rights during their absence.

Apparently the word ma in bima (translated here with 'as') in the clause, "as Allah has guarded", has the import of infinitive verb, and biimplies instrumentality. The meaning therefore will be as follows: The good women are obedient to their husbands and guard their interest in their absence, through the husband's rights which Allah has preserved by giving him the authority and obliging the wives to obey them and guard the unseen for them.

Alternatively, the letter bi may imply exchange. Then it will mean that the wives are obliged to obey and guard the unseen in exchange of the rights which Allah has bestowed on the wives, as He has given a new life to them in human society and has obliged the men to pay them dower and maintenance. But the former meaning is more obvious.

Some other meanings have been given by exegetes, but it is not necessary to mention them as none of them is supported by the context.

QUR'AN: and (as to) those on whose part you fear recalcitrance, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping places, and beat them;: "an-Nushuz" (disobedience, refusal to submit); fear of recalcitrance connotes appearance of the signs of disobedience. The order is based, not on disobedience, but on its fear. It is in order that the man should keep the admonition at the level suitable at a particular stage, because admonition has its place at the beginning of recalcitrance as well as at the appearance of its signs - [but with less intensity].

The three remedies - admonition, leaving them alone in the sleeping places and beating - have to be applied one after another in that sequence, although they have been mentioned together, joined with the conjunctive 'and'. First comes admonition; if that fails, then leaving her alone in the sleeping place; if that too proves ineffective, then the beating. This gradual process is inferred from the sequence wherein these remedies are increasing in intensity from leniency to severity. In short, this graduality is inferred from the context, not from the conjunctive 'and'.

It appears from the words, "leave them alone in the sleeping places", that he is not asked to sleep in a separate bed, but he should show his displeasure by turning away from her and not touching her, etc. It is far-fetched to believe that it means leaving her bed altogether. The meaning given by us may be supported by the fact that "sleeping places" has been used in plural; apparently there was no need of the plural if the latter meanings were intended.

QUR'AN: then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them: That is, if they are obedient to you, then do not be on look out for excuses to trouble them. Why? Because surely Allah is High, Great. Greatness and grandeur is reserved for your Lord; do not be deceived by your power and strength nor use it in oppressing your wives, thinking yourselves too high and superior.

Source

Edited by AlAbd AlThaleel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You say physical violence doesn't solve anything, but Koran does. Pick your team.

Its not about teams, it's about understanding how to handle obstacles in this life. Physical violence doesn't solve anything, but if someone is lost then there are steps to guide that person in how to handle their predicament..

Practicing patience and practicing respect will lead you to the peace in ones life that is available for all of us.. If your life is a brick wall & you can not see the hope then the 3rd step (which will end all love and trust anyways) is acceptable but really.... how will that fix anything? It wont.

(bismillah)

QUR'AN: then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them: That is, if they are obedient to you, then do not be on look out for excuses to trouble them. Why? Because surely Allah is High, Great. Greatness and grandeur is reserved for your Lord; do not be deceived by your power and strength nor use it in oppressing your wives, thinking yourselves too high and superior.

Source

The husband has failed. he has proven with this final step that he is not the strong man he should be practicing to be/become in this life.. & with proving this embarrassment and failure he should not go after her for his own pride.. "Why? Because surely Allah is High, Great. Greatness and grandeur is reserved for your Lord; do not be deceived by your power and strength nor use it in oppressing your wives, thinking yourselves too high and superior."

This is my interpretation..

Edited by samarobin0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^That is the Revelation of God your talking about. You folks need to awaken a bit here, and realize god is wiser than us all. if you don't want to incur such things 1: Obey god and be good wives 2: the men should be well educated not to go to extremes. ( EDIT: meaning outside the bounds of what Islam says)

and yes the third option is always at the end of the list since it is sent down in the instruction by god. thus is allowed

Edited by Maitham

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If she obeys god she will never ever have to see this 3rd option be put on her. if she follows what islam says in respect of her husband there is no reason for her to ever get hit. the rule is for a certain circumstance.

Edited by Maitham

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its not about teams, it's about understanding how to handle obstacles in this life. Physical violence doesn't solve anything, but if someone is lost then there are steps to guide that person in how to handle their predicament..

Practicing patience and practicing respect will lead you to the peace in ones life that is available for all of us.. If your life is a brick wall & you can not see the hope then the 3rd step (which will end all love and trust anyways) is acceptable but really.... how will that fix anything? It wont.

LOL at your logic.. let me put my response in bold for ALL to read..

IF BEATING WILL END LOVE, RESPECT AND FAIL TO FIX ANYTHING THEN WHY ALLOW IT IN THE FIRST PLACE???

I mean for god's sake, what is the flipping point? It's just like adding salt to the injury!

The husband has failed. he has proven with this final step that he is not the strong man he should be practicing to be/become in this life.. & with proving this embarrassment and failure he should not go after her for his own pride.. "Why? Because surely Allah is High, Great. Greatness and grandeur is reserved for your Lord; do not be deceived by your power and strength nor use it in oppressing your wives, thinking yourselves too high and superior."

This is my interpretation..

Terrible interpretation , because essentially what you're saying is that God gave Man a CHOICE to be a weak embarrassment and failure by legislating the act in the Koran..

Sayyed Fadlallah(ra) on the issue.

Q: Is this applied to the Fatwa which

you recently issued that the woman

has the right to defend herself if she

is attacked by her husband?

R: In the Fatwa we issued, we

intended to clarify the Islamic

position towards the right of defence.

The Quranic verse says: "If then any

one transgresses the prohibition

against you, transgress ye likewise

against him". (Al-Baqara: 194).

If the man attempts at exploiting the

woman's weaknesses and there is no

other way to prevent him from

attacking her, then she has the right to

face him in the same way to protect

herself against his violence.

The man might sometimes feel the

pride of his machomismo. So, he

might break either her hand or her leg

or cause her severe physical damage.

Therefore, in this case, she has the

right to face him with the same

weapon he is using.

Some men rejected this fatwa,

claiming that that it shakes marital

life. I replied that it is man's violence

that shakes this relationship.

I advise the woman to protect her

family; however, if there is no other

way by which she can defend herself,

she has the right to train herself and

to possess the power that enables her

to wage a counter-attack.

I believe that self defence is a human

right for any person, whether male or

female. Just as the woman has the

right to defend herself, so does the

man, if his wife is stronger than him;

for example, if she is a judo or a

karate player. I ask the woman to get

trained because the man, even in the

developed western countries, usually

exploits woman's weak body, either

to rape her or to deny her rights.

The universal violence against

women.

Source: english.bayynat.org.lb/Archive_news/Interview_20022009.htm

Number of problemz:

1. Here, the Ayatullah is speaking of wife beating, for any reason whatsoever, in a NEGATIVE light. Why would God allow such a negative act against women?

2. I agree with the Ayatullah (although its rather obvious advice, ya know, 'defend yourself') but he doesn't realize that God 'legislates' this in the Quran, and through his advice to us women , he is violating the Koran and infringing the right of the man. Just pointing out the contradiction.

3. According to Islamic tradition, woman are not allowed to even disobey their husbands.. And now we're talking about hitting the husband? Can any sane person here notice the logical power struggle? Patriarchy disallows striking the husband.

4. If women were allowed to defend themselves and hit men back , why didn't the Quran explicitly allow this? Why not give women steps to sort of bad behaved men??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL at your logic.. let me put my response in bold for ALL to read..

IF BEATING WILL END LOVE, RESPECT AND FAIL TO FIX ANYTHING THEN WHY ALLOW IT IN THE FIRST PLACE???

I mean for god's sake, what is the flipping point? It's just like adding salt to the injury!

Terrible interpretation , because essentially what you're saying is that God gave Man a CHOICE to be a weak embarrassment and failure by legislating the act in the Koran..

Number of problemz:

1. Here, the Ayatullah is speaking of wife beating, for any reason whatsoever, in a NEGATIVE light. Why would God allow such a negative act against women?

2. I agree with the Ayatullah (although its rather obvious advice, ya know, 'defend yourself') but he doesn't realize that God 'legislates' this in the Quran, and through his advice to us women , he is violating the Koran and infringing the right of the man. Just pointing out the contradiction.

3. According to Islamic tradition, woman are not allowed to even disobey their husbands.. And now we're talking about hitting the husband? Can any sane person here notice the logical power struggle? Patriarchy disallows striking the husband.

4. If women were allowed to defend themselves and hit men back , why didn't the Quran explicitly allow this? Why not give women steps to sort of bad behaved men??

No contradiction at all your interpretation to the verses of the Quran is just different. The sayyed already brought proof for his logic with the verse he mentioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No contradiction at all your interpretation to the verses of the Quran is just different. The sayyed already brought proof for his logic with the verse he mentioned.

Wow, well allow me to relieve you of your ignorance...

The verse he used as 'proof' is taken out of context. It doesn't apply to marital laws! It specifically applies to those who violate the sanctity of the sacred months! Go check the tafseer if you don't believe me... Also you didn't respond to my other points. You're so stubborn, I bet you're just trying to score points like everyone else..

The Sayed is either lying or ignorant or mistaken ... Your pick..

Edited by KimK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, well allow me to relieve you of your ignorance...

The verse he used as 'proof' is taken out of context. It doesn't apply to marital laws! It specifically applies to those who violate the sanctity of the sacred months! Go check the tafseer if you don't believe me... Also you didn't respond to my other points. You're so stubborn, I bet you're just trying to score points like everyone else..

The Sayed is either lying or ignorant or mistaken ... Your pick..

I looked at your points I'm just choosing the Sayyed tafseer and context over yours . As for your last statement non of the above. Anyways since you have left the realm of discussion and resorting to insults I will leave you with this :

"And the servants of (Allah) Most

Gracious are those who walk on

the earth in humility, and when the

IGNORANT address them, they say,

‘Peace!’ (salaam)." [Al-Qur’an

25:63]

And that's the end of the matter.

Salaam

Edited by Martyrdom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...