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  • Advanced Member
Posted

Asalamu alaikom sisters and brothers, my name is Akaisha and i am new to the site, i have an issue and wonder if others have had or heard of similar issues.

well it seems to me that since converting to Islam 3 years ago Alhumdulilah, the more i learn about Islam and the more i take into my life, the more issues i have with my born muslim fiance, he prays his 5 prayers, he is knowledgeable in Tajweed and quran, he doesnt drink and doesnt go with girls, but the issues i have is that he always telling me to relax when it comes to other Islamic practices, telling me dont take it too serious, we are not living in a islamic country so its hard to be a very good muslim etc, so that said we have issues regaurding stuff like, taking loans and credit cards(riba), main stream music, kufir friends, parties, islamic disscussion and practices

I have encouraged him to take part in the local shiite communities but his not into it, he has issues with me taking part in community gatherings & attending lectures etc,

now i realise this could be most likely due to the fact he is a born muslim and i am a convert so naturally my passion for learning and practicing would greater then his?, but im not sure how to feel about it, i want to be able to share the passion and practices of Islam that Allah swt has ordred for us with him, is this normal?

has anyone else delt with these kind of issues? and if so how did you and did you overcome them or just live with it? should i just leave him do as he wishes and not mention anything to him ( because when i mention that we should so "A" instead of "B" as Alllah said "A" is halal right way and "B" is haram he will get angry and say we dont wana be fundalmentilist he doesnt wana make life hard for us comon)

i just dont know how to handle this in "Islamic way" please advices Thank You,

fe amaan Allah Wasalam

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

Salam alaikum sister, just remember that the people spend our time with are the people we become most like. If he is compromising his religion and not heeding good advice, then what will happen when you marry? Maybe when you first marry you will be strong and do what you know is right, but most start to compromise as their husbands do. That is why Muslim men are allowed to marry Christian or Jewish women, but as Muslim women we are only allowed to marry Muslim men. As women we strive to please our husbands, even though we know that Allah is above our husbands sometimes we may compromise a few things to make them happy.

Stay strong in what you believe and reevaluate everything before making a full commitment. Pray the prayer of guidance, asking Allah to make what is wrong hard for you and making what is right easy for you. If you feel at peace with marrying him and believe you will be strong enough to be the better example then I am not saying to split up with him!

Just make lots of dua for him, and when you talk to him provide him hadiths and quotes from the quran to show his error. Also do not let him think that you think you are better then him! This will make things worse. (Not that I am saying that you think you are better then him, just I know that myself, it is how I say things that people get the wrong idea). Insha'Allah this helps.

Edited by UmmAhmad
Posted

Its hard how we live in a world based on those issues, but to not do the things you mentionned does not mean "fundamentalism", you're trying to be a Muslim while he isn't willing to. It's the little things like these and more that matter in the end. Anyway you sound like you're really in a tough spot between your conscience and your "affection" for him. Even though you keep telling him the wrongs, he flips out. Mostly it's the other way around. Men who have that intention, to try and be "good muslims", their unsopportive surroundings, be it wives mostly, families, way of life, don't let them, indirectly even. Anyway, keep your intentions like this, try to change him using how you think he'd be more responsive as you know how he is best, and everyone is different. Try to hint that you don't care, even if you guys don't have a perfect life necessating riba loans, going out at nights to parties with friends etc, that you just want a simple life and to be in good terms with Islam in doing what's right and not doing the wrongs no matter the consequences, that he'll have your support and love no matter what etc... If over time, he doesn't respond to that then I don't know what will. Eventually it's your choice and your decision, be wise and Allah is with you...

Posted

Salaam,

he doesnt drink and doesnt go with girls, b

Doesn't go with girls is not a positive thing. I think you meant he doesn't indulge in corruption with girls. If he engages in marriage with girls that is a positive thing, as most of the Imams and Prophets engaged with women through marriage.

ut the issues i have is that he always telling me to relax when it comes to other Islamic practices, telling me dont take it too serious, we are not living in a islamic country so its hard to be a very good muslim etc,

That is a bad advice, if it was said exactly like that. You have to take religion serious, otherwise it means your belief is not solid.

so that said we have issues regaurding stuff like, taking loans and credit cards(riba), main stream music, kufir friends, parties, islamic disscussion and practices

Try to study all the topics one by one, and make sure you are not prohibiting any lawful and make sure he is not legalising any unlawful. And remember that prohibiting the lawful is just as bad as legalising the unlawful.

Regarding the definition of riba, many people have a misconception that riba simply means interest, therefore forbiding all sorts of interest. That is a superficial and simplistic definition, you can read the book 'riba free bank in Islam' the author is Muhammad Baqir Al Sadir, to gain more insight into this topic.

Music also has halaal and haraam types, also it is not as simplistic as outright banning of all types of Music, but there are many different rules that effect whether a particular music is allowed or prohibited.

Kufr also has a very deep definition, and it is a relative concept. Every sin we do involves a proportion of kufr (kufr literally means cover). The big Kufr is the only one that justifies boycotting a person. But that definition doesn't apply to people simply for being non-muslim. It applies only for conciously covering the truth after the knowledge of it. Many non-muslims could be in their journey towards Islam, and it is very rewarding to be friends with them and invite them towards the path of God (it is called dawa).

Parties are also types. If it doesn't involve nudity, corruption, intoxicants or other types of sins, then it is an acceptable gathering.

should i just leave him do as he wishes and not mention anything to him ( because when i mention that we should so "A" instead of "B" as Alllah said "A" is halal right way and "B" is haram he will get angry and say we dont wana be fundalmentilist he doesnt wana make life hard for us comon)

If you differ in opinions and you regard your opinion to be true, you have the duty to communicate that to the other side, under the duty of 'amr bil maroof wa nahi anil munkar' (enjoining the good and forbidding the evil). But don't insist, just make your oppostion clear and leave it there, in order to clear your conscience.

Don't disobey God in order to obey any human, the famous fiq law is 'no obedience to any creature in disobeying the Creator.'

One thing to be careful is the use of the word fundamentalist

A fundamentalist follower of the true religion is a positive thing, it means someone who abides strictly by that rightful way of life. Linguistically it means original, so someone follwoing the original laws of the rreligion is supposed to be a positive thing.

However when someone is fundamentalist to a wrong understanding of the religion, attributing many falsehoods to God, prohibiting many lawfuls, legalising many unlawfuls, then that sort of fundamentalism will be negative and harm others.

For example, some believe in cancellling the others schools of thoughts and religions. intiating agression against others simply because of their 'wrong' belief, so they justify targeting non-combatants and innocent people who are not directly involved in the conflict.

Salaam.

Posted

Salaam,

Doesn't go with girls is not a positive thing. I think you meant he doesn't indulge in corruption with girls. If he engages in marriage with girls that is a positive thing, as most of the Imams and Prophets engaged with women through marriage.

I never thought I'd say this but LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL you made my day Ali Moe . Good day to you and keep makin us smile bro. Peace

laughing.gif

  • Advanced Member
Posted (edited)

Have you asked him why he is not very interested in going to the mosque? Maybe it has something to do with the mosque specifically. Or maybe he has a different set of friends? You won’t know until you ask him.

You are right that sometimes born Muslims have different expectation than someone who has just reverted to Islam.

Some people are religious while others are not. You can’t make someone religious if they are not ready. But since he does pray his salah and abstain from a lot of sinful activities so he does have a lot of positive qualities.

Would it be a problem in your household, if you participate in the religious gathering without him? Would it be okay for you to go to the mosque or community center without him?

Edited by Gypsy
Posted (edited)

Well the op said this was her fiance....In most villages, the fiance doesn't mutah around with girls while he's engaged.....

Sorry my mistake I forgot to mention " except for the villages of sodom and gamourah"

But those ones dont exist anymore and even then they were in jordan not in lebanon.

Going with girls could mean anything,,, It could mean mutah (which is absolutely fine even if the man is engaged)

it could mean he is looking for his second or third wife (which is recomended by islam and fine even if he is engaged) ...

So whats wrong with that??? you didnt tell us what is islamicly wrong with engaging with other girls while you are engaged to one???

you just said that " most villages dont do it"

but there is a book for the muslims they call it " al quraan" and they use it as a primary reference for jurisdiction. have you heard of it or read it ?

in it it says:

" most people hate the truth"

"most people are ungrateful "

" most people do not believe"

so brining the "most people" argument is uselesss

but can you once give us a reference for your openion and not simply your own desires ??? for example you say A is bad because of such rule which is mentipoend in such reference

B is good because of such rule which is mentioned in such reference .....

But to simply say " I like A i dont like B, C is good, D is bad"!!!!! says who shadow? people say many things you know

Another issue is that in islam an enegagement relaitonship should be superficial and should not last and turn into a deep relationship without a marriage contract.

So a finace is officially nothing more than a person who announced his willingness to marry her ,,, its still a stranger to the woman.... engagement is just declaring the intention to marry some one but most the usual prohibitions that apply to total strangers also apply to a fiance.

The ideal thing to do is to make a temporary contract for the sake of engagement (engagement mutah) to avoid any potential problems.

WE must advice people to use temporary marriage for engagements as thier engagemensts some times last decades and some people even have kids during that so we should make muta common place for solving such situations....

salaam

Edited by alimohamad40
  • Advanced Member
Posted

Asalamu alaikom

Thanks for the replies everyone, im thinking i perhaps didnt make sense of it properly,

i mentioned the following major positives about my fiance that are "he prays his 5 prayers, he is knowledgeable in Tajweed and quran, he doesnt drink and doesnt go with girls," now so i said how he does his 5 prayers, he his learned is Tajweed & Quran, he doesnt drink alcohol, and he doesnt fornicate (do zina) with girls, now i am well aware that Islam permits plural marraige, and temp marraige, we have also spoken of this, he has told me that he never considered to do either and would rather not, so i guess thats his descision, and ill respect whatever he wishes to do at any point;

As for my next line i said some issues were "taking loans and credit cards(riba), main stream music, kufir friends, parties, islamic disscussion and practices"

1. taking loans and credit cards well we have many loans and credit cards from main stream banks and i am abit worried that it isnt allowed as i keep hearing about riba etc im not 100% on the terms of it, if someone could provide information about Riba, loans interest etc in islam that is prohibited and what is allowed.

2.He cranks his Main stream music as in RnB hip hop etc i mean dont get me wrong i grew up with it and love music but once again the more i learn of Islam it tells me that is isnt allowed, i have been getting a collection of islamic nasheeds to kinda replace the night clubish music i usually listen to, once again if anyone can provide more insight into this also please do.

3.He has mostly Kufir friends, that he goes to the gym with, they encourage him to look at girls, eat non-halal meat bbq etc, go clubbing, one time one of them even convinced him to have a shot of vodka on NYE (he doesnt drink!) but yet his "mate" convinced him to do JUST one, haha, i really dont see these freinds accepting Islam anytime soon, they dont have 'disscussions" and when he is with them he blends in so there is very little gateway of information to Islam in there gatherings, they know he is muslim and thats all, we have talked about this alot and we almost just called quits due to this area in particular and he has now agreed to spend less time with these kind of friends which is good alhumdulillah.

3. The parties we have include our night clubbish Rnb hip hop raggae music, sheesha/argilla, lots of food and friends, i enjoy them, but im just not sure on how Islamicly acceptable they are?

4.Islamic disscussions and practices, well i would love to have more of them, he has been disinterested in the past, but we have been talking and he has acknowledged that it is essential to share with each other and to be doing what we can in the way that Allah swt has ordered, for our future, children, and to achieve the best in the hereafter inshallah, alhumdulillah.

The example i gave for i say A is better for you then B well, i meant for example, its a friday night and his "mates" call him up to meet up in town for sheesha, i would get dissapointed and say it would be good for you to attend jummah prayer and meet with your muslim brothers, or goto family house for gathering etc does that make sense? i mean maybe its fine if he goes to town every friday sat night to have sheesha and chill with his friends i dunno? like i said im a convert so i didnt grow up with the knowledge of what is generally accpetable and what isnt in Islam, i suppose thats what im asking here.

Thanks for taking time to read and reply, Jazakallah

Salams

Posted

salaam

Asalamu alaikom

Thanks for the replies everyone, im thinking i perhaps didnt make sense of it properly,

i mentioned the following major positives about my fiance that are "he prays his 5 prayers, he is knowledgeable in Tajweed and quran, he doesnt drink and doesnt go with girls," now so i said how he does his 5 prayers, he his learned is Tajweed & Quran, he doesnt drink alcohol, and he doesnt fornicate (do zina) with girls, now i am well aware that Islam permits plural marraige, and temp marraige, we have also spoken of this, he has told me that he never considered to do either and would rather not, so i guess thats his descision, and ill respect whatever he wishes to do at any point;

yes thanx for explaining, the reason I pointed out is for teh sake of accuracy and to combat the celibacy culture that exists in our community and decays our socity ...

As for my next line i said some issues were "taking loans and credit cards(riba), main stream music, kufir friends, parties, islamic disscussion and practices"

1. taking loans and credit cards well we have many loans and credit cards from main stream banks and i am abit worried that it isnt allowed as i keep hearing about riba etc im not 100% on the terms of it, if someone could provide information about Riba, loans interest etc in islam that is prohibited and what is allowed.

this topic requires a big study ,,, since the scholars allowed the variable intrest rate for teh first home buyers then just go ahead with it and at the same time conduct your study about it.

if oyu really want to study it you need to reed " the reba free bank in islam" because we dont have any scholars who adressed this issue like mohamad baqir alsadr did

if not i can say a summury to you but its very hard to type it and i will try that maybe in the weekends or something inshallah

2.He cranks his Main stream music as in RnB hip hop etc i mean dont get me wrong i grew up with it and love music but once again the more i learn of Islam it tells me that is isnt allowed, i have been getting a collection of islamic nasheeds to kinda replace the night clubish music i usually listen to, once again if anyone can provide more insight into this also please do.

i wrote this a while ago i will paste and hope to discuss it

Music

the folowing is to help us think about the reason for the hokms and are not fatwas. lets say they are my openions when am thinking loudly so could be wrong or right and the reason i put them is to learn and discuss.

the problem is most of the music is full of [Edited Out]. there are too many disadvantages in music and maybe very small advantage.

the small advantage is that it fulfils a need for people who are already sick. and it acts like a dose and if overdosed the effect reverses to negative. in some cases people who are sick use it as a boost up so it becmes hallal to take a dose but not oevrdose

understanding the religious rule we must categorize it into its categories

1) music and instruments : the sound patterns made by instruments and different music tools

2) songs: ( the poems and talks read with specific pattern to give a nice sound and usually contain a message in the content which could be good or bad)

3) dance: moving the body in accordance with a song or a music pattern or solely without anything

lahu alhadeeth:

thre are many issues involved in these topics most importantly coming from the verse about 'lahu alhadeeth'. This only applies to number two “the songs”. lahu alhadeeth is regarding the content of the song or the poem and what it carries from lies, evil messages, sexual excitation and so and so on

Taqleed Ahl alfujoor:

imitating the evil people. They say all the three music (sounds) and songs (lyrics) and dance (moves) can be haraam if they involve imitating a group of evil people and is a clear sign of imitation.

addiction:

in the west for example the addiction to the music takes the human from their normal condition and becomes like alcohol because it takes away the humans brain like the intoxicants. it could waste the humans time and freezes the human’s brain from thinking when he/she must be thinking about priorities. (this case is common in addiction)

Effecting ibadaat (worships):

if it effects the worships like delay the prayer and .....

sexual dancing :

That is haram between the non married opposite genders as it excites the human sexually and forces them to fall in the haraam.

normal dancing is apparently ok but when its in the presence of the opposite sexes the sexual issues arise and islam restricts that to marriage only.

Instruments and music :

they are hallal in themselves , they are just sounds. in some cases nice sounds with patterns in some cases ugly sounds

singing:

halaal in itself as its like talking but with nice voice, tone and pattern

As you notice Many components are hallal by themselves in the original state but become haraam due to secondary law that apply to them

3.He has mostly Kufir friends, that he goes to the gym with, they encourage him to look at girls, eat non-halal meat bbq etc, go clubbing, one time one of them even convinced him to have a shot of vodka on NYE (he doesnt drink!) but yet his "mate" convinced him to do JUST one, haha, i really dont see these freinds accepting Islam anytime soon, they dont have 'disscussions" and when he is with them he blends in so there is very little gateway of information to Islam in there gatherings, they know he is muslim and thats all, we have talked about this alot and we almost just called quits due to this area in particular and he has now agreed to spend less time with these kind of friends which is good alhumdulillah.

unfortunately this is a very bad sign . i mean the drinking part .

the hadeeth says " two would not smell heaven,,, the one who drunk even if it was one drop and the one who left the prayer even if one rakah"

if you are aware of the extremely strict prohibition of drinking alcohol yet you still do it then its a very dangerous sign...

another bad sign is when a human changes colours according to the environement ,,, thats hypcorisy and double standards...

one important thing to keep in mind is that we all need to go towards the humans who bring us closer to god and keep away from the humans who drive us away from god.

If he is voluntarily choosing bad people over good people its not a good sign but is thats his only alternative then he needs to effect them rater than get effected by them.

3. The parties we have include our night clubbish Rnb hip hop raggae music, sheesha/argilla, lots of food and friends, i enjoy them, but im just not sure on how Islamicly acceptable they are?

yes alot of these sorts of things include many haraam aspects specially the mixed gender

4.Islamic disscussions and practices, well i would love to have more of them, he has been disinterested in the past, but we have been talking and he has acknowledged that it is essential to share with each other and to be doing what we can in the way that Allah swt has ordered, for our future, children, and to achieve the best in the hereafter inshallah, alhumdulillah.

as you said its very important for him to show that he actually is serious about religion and its not just a mere label

The example i gave for i say A is better for you then B well, i meant for example, its a friday night and his "mates" call him up to meet up in town for sheesha, i would get dissapointed and say it would be good for you to attend jummah prayer and meet with your muslim brothers, or goto family house for gathering etc does that make sense? i mean maybe its fine if he goes to town every friday sat night to have sheesha and chill with his friends i dunno? like i said im a convert so i didnt grow up with the knowledge of what is generally accpetable and what isnt in Islam, i suppose thats what im asking here.

rule of thumb

if some one takes you away from god then its a bad sign and if some one reminds you of god its a good sign

most the sheesha gatherings are empty wasteful and haraam gatherings

mohamad hussain fadhallah prohibits smoking even for the addict and that includes sheesha

so yes he says smoking is haraam

other scholars prohibit smoking for the begginer only like mohamad baqir alsadr and even alkhooie i think

smoking is bad for the environment and its nothing but destruction to the self, environeemnt and everything .

Another important point is that with all the details that you know of him and the level of your relationship with him it is not islamic for it to be "just engagement"...

a marriage contract neeeds to be made between you or your relation needs to stay much more limited than what you describe.

salaam

  • Advanced Member
Posted

Another important point is that with all the details that you know of him and the level of your relationship with him it is not islamic for it to be "just engagement"...

a marriage contract neeeds to be made between you or your relation needs to stay much more limited than what you describe.

salaam

Salams btw We have Mutah (temp marraige atm) if that makes more sense.

Posted

salaam

Salams btw We have Mutah (temp marraige atm) if that makes more sense.

thats great alhamdulillah , if it was his own initiative its a very good initiative from him....

Because many people these days just make engagements that last for years and become intimate yet making a marriage contract never even crosses thier mind due to thier subconcious priohibition and elimiantion of temproary marriage from thier dictionary.

hope to get back at the topic of riba if I get a chance inshallah

salaam

  • Moderators
Posted (edited)

Asalamu alaikom

Thanks for the replies everyone, im thinking i perhaps didnt make sense of it properly,

Alekum Salam,

You brought up some good points. I am also a revert to Islam, lived all my life in U.S. Here is my perspective.

i mentioned the following major positives about my fiance that are "he prays his 5 prayers, he is knowledgeable in Tajweed and quran, he doesnt drink and doesnt go with girls," now so i said how he does his 5 prayers, he his learned is Tajweed & Quran, he doesnt drink alcohol, and he doesnt fornicate (do zina) with girls,

Alhamduillah, sounds like a good guy so far.

now i am well aware that Islam permits plural marraige, and temp marraige, we have also spoken of this, he has told me that he never considered to do either and would rather not, so i guess thats his descision, and ill respect whatever he wishes to do at any point;

Good so far. Two points here.

1) Plural marriage is permitted, but there are conditions. First is that he must observe the hukm sharia (Islamic legal ordinances) related to marriage. Some of these are he must specify whether the marriage is indefinite term (zawajtul nikah) or fixed term (zawajtul mutah), fix the mahr (dowry) and both agree on this, if fixed term, then fix term of the marriage, recite the aqd properly, etc. Also, he must do justice to you as well as the other wife, if he decides to do this. Also, plural marriage, although it is allowed in Islam, isn't always easy and isn't always possible without violating other Islamic laws, especially in the West. So it's not as simple as 'i will respect whatever he wishes to do at any point'. You and him must be informed of the issues involved and make decisions based on what is practical and viable for both of you.

As for my next line i said some issues were "taking loans and credit cards(riba), main stream music, kufir friends, parties, islamic disscussion and practices"

1) Charing someone interest (riba) on a loan is a major sin in Islam and you are never allowed to do this under any circumstances.

2) As for paying interest, it is highly discouraged (because you are reinforcing the system of riba and allowing someone to do injustice (thulm) to you. It is only allowed in situations where you have no other option and not paying the interest will put you in an extreme hardship. For example student loans. If you can pay for your college in any other way (working, taking loans from family members (provided they do not charge you interest) then you must do that. If you cannot, then you are allowed to take student loans (because not doing it would put you in extreme difficulty by not having an education) but take the minimum amount and pay it back asap.

3) Taking loans from banks and credit cards is only allowed if you have no other choice and not doing would put you in extreme hardship

2.He cranks his Main stream music as in RnB hip hop etc i mean dont get me wrong i grew up with it and love music but once again the more i learn of Islam it tells me that is isnt allowed, i have been getting a collection of islamic nasheeds to kinda replace the night clubish music i usually listen to, once again if anyone can provide more insight into this also please do.

Mainstream music (hip hop, r&b, etc) is a brain washing technique, and a clever one. Modern research into the effects of music on the human brain show that music has a unique ability to bypass rational decision making portions of the brain (frontal lobes) and goes strait to the emotional centers of the brain and releases certain chemicals and hormones into the blood stream. This is exactly how drugs work.

So biologically, listening to music is the same as drug addiction. Also, most hip hop, etc contains lyrics that reinforce concepts of kufr (like partying, materialism, etc) and the more you listen the more these concepts are reinforced. You will act on them eventually because they are now part of you (part of your brain).

3.He has mostly Kufir friends, that he goes to the gym with, they encourage him to look at girls, eat non-halal meat bbq etc, go clubbing, one time one of them even convinced him to have a shot of vodka on NYE (he doesnt drink!) but yet his "mate" convinced him to do JUST one, haha, i really dont see these freinds accepting Islam anytime soon, they dont have 'disscussions" and when he is with them he blends in so there is very little gateway of information to Islam in there gatherings, they know he is muslim and thats all, we have talked about this alot and we almost just called quits due to this area in particular and he has now agreed to spend less time with these kind of friends which is good alhumdulillah.

It sounds like his Iman (faith in Islam) is shaky and not stable, otherwise he would not do those things. It is possible that your Iman is greater than his so there is a mismatch there, very unfortunate, but very common amoung revert sisters married to born muslim men. I think you are doing good to encourage him to go to the masjid, Islamic events and keep doing that and discourage him to be around friends who listen to music, party, clubbing, drink, etc. You only have the power to encourage and discourage and he may or may not listen to you. Eventually you may have to decide whether this relationship is worth staying in. I wouldn't have kids with him until you are sure he has got rid of the above habits. Also, you cannot touch someone without also being touched and his lack of Iman will eventually affect you if he doesn't change.

3. The parties we have include our night clubbish Rnb hip hop raggae music, sheesha/argilla, lots of food and friends, i enjoy them, but im just not sure on how Islamicly acceptable they are?

In Islam, there is nothing wrong with having parties and getting together with friends, laughing, etc. The problem occurs when the party contains unIslamic elements like drinking, gambling, hip hop. Since most parties with non muslims or marginal muslims will contain these, it is better to avoid parties unless you are sure what is / isn't going to happen at the party.

Congradulations on your reversion and cling onto your Iman no matter what happens in the relationship.

Don't make the #1 mistake of new revert sisters and connect your relationship with Allah(s.w.a) to your relationship

with a man (any man ). The two are totally seperate. The Hidayah (guidance to the truth) is the greatest gift that anyone can ever receive. You received it, Alhamduillah, which means your very special to Allah(s.w.a), so don't let anything or anyone make your forget that.

Salam

Edited by Abu Hadi
Posted

Salaam

I like to correct a few things by abu Hadi

It is not required to violate Other Islamic laws when you do plural marriage what is your proof for this claim ?

Also you are going against the command of god when you discourage some thing that god has encouraged or even made compulsory in many cases.

I have given references many times from the opinions of the scholars who regard plural marriage mustahab (encouraged) But you seem to bypass them and insert your own opinion what's the deal have you been effected by music? Rational thinking will mean to encourage what god encouraged.

Lastly you mentioned an in accuracy by equating RIBA to intrest . RIBA is not intrest. Intrest is "faeda" and it's allowed to take and give . Read the book of " RIBA free bank in Islam " for Mohamad baqir Alsadr

RIBA is specific types of intrest not simply any intrest.

The verse says : Allah does RIBA to the charities and forbids RIBA

Another verse says : those who eat the RIBA multiple folds

So it seems like RIBA is referring to multiplication

Usually the problem that Alsadr talked about was with fixing the intrest rate or big rates that constitutes usery like credit cards. But when they take only 7% while inflation is 3% it means they are only taking 4% and that amount is the investive power of that money. If you are to invest that money and subtract the management cost the profit will be about that much ie 4%

The house prices go up and that's your investment which you could not have done without Thier money In addition to your benefit from the house and the stability. If it was usury you would not have been interested in the idea And would have preferred rent but if that investment benefits you more than rent and rent is not usury then how does a more beneficial thing become usury ?

I'll give one example of my grandmother who had property in Iran

She left Iran at 16 and when she returned after decades her brother is trying to be very "Islamic " so he gives back 30 k tomans which would not even buy her a fridge !!!! Under the claim that intrest is haraam!!! What nonsense are you guys saying . Ignore inflation and give less money back to the lender than what he originally gave you? Which lender in his right mind will lend you when lending is absolutely voluntary? Are you trying to disable the lending system? Why would gods law disable lending?

  • Moderators
Posted (edited)

Salam,

Br. Regarding Plural marriage, you and I have a disagreement about the subject of when plural marriage should be practiced and when it is not such a good idea. It is not an issue of Sharia, we both agree it is allowed. I don't think having this discussion again would benefit either of us.

Second, when you use the word 'Interest' in English it means the multiplication of the original loan amount over time, which is haram. I read the book by Shaheed Sadr (ra) (and his other books also). There are multiple terms in Arabic that refer to transactions involving loans. Some are not haram. I didn't want to confuse the sister. It's better to keep it simple unless she wants more information. All loans made in the West, that I know of, use the multiplication of the original loan amount over time, thus fitting into the haram category according to Holy Quran. Shia and Sunni fiqh differ on whether it is also haram to pay interest in all circumstances. Our Ulema say there are some conditions under which it is not haram to pay interest (I would post the link from Sayyid Sistani's site but it seems to be down now), but it is better to avoid it completely if you can.

Regarding your comment about the property issue, I don't understand exactly what the issue was. Did she own the property ? If he only wanted to give her 30k tomans, why didn't she sell it to someone else ? I'm not sure exactly what your point is with this.

Edited by Abu Hadi
Posted

Sister why do you love this person?

Do you love him for his emaan? do you love him for his physical look, do you love him for his material posession? Do you love him for sincere pure reasons? Do you love him for something far greater such as because in order to please God? or perhaps something else

Ask yourself these questions and ask what it is that keeps you together with him.

From what you have posted it seems that as your faith grows, you also grow apart from this man, for such differences you described , are not simple and minuet differences but rather grand ones which could end up in great troubles later on, or perhaps they might straighten themselves out and disappearover time so that you two will move together at the same degree towards God.

Marriage is a beautiful thing, and it is a life long commitment, and no marriage is perfect, your so called soul mate you will never find, because people change with time and experiences in life.

Work with this man, its not easy to just cut off something which you have worked so hard towards, and usually when people give advice on such issues they dont realize what they are saying sometimes and what we are dealing with, because from their point of view their view is quickly influenced by the complaints you have made against your partner, and in their mind an image is painted, and at this time that image is painted in a very negative connotation, which leads people to quickly jump the gun and give you advice leading to a problematic future or rather bias and unthoughtful advice

This is why i asked you why do you love this person? what is the core principal reason why you came together with him in the first place, you must ask yourself this and try to allign your initial meeting with your current direction of this relationship

Now that you have discovered the beauty of Islam and you further uncover its lights, you now become less blind to truth, and suddenly those things which once enticed you dont see in a magnificent perception as you might have at one time before, in fact they might even repulse you to see them now, however your partner is as you described clearly not moving and progressing as you are, so now the differences have arisen.

Life is a test, marriage is a test of patience, in the end either you two will grow completely apart, or he will change his ways for you, if you remind him and show him how much you care for him, and he also sacrificing his own self inclinations by showing you how much he loves you, you can work yourselves out towards a beautiful future, two lovers of each other, whom together also love God, tied by faith and love for God for eternity in the blissful heaven.

There are the two possible outcomes, i suggest you work with him talk to him, ask him how much he loves you, and if he loves you dearly he will change for you at least if not for God, besides what you are clling him to is beauty and truth, not falsehood, until it becomes apparent that he will not change his ways permanently or he changes his ways towards what is right.

if he doesnt change his ways and remains arrogant in his inclinations, but however he allows you to practise your religion and beliefs freely, then there is no harm in staying with him, but if he begins to force you to stop practising your religion, then it becomes wajib for you to leave him, but that is a BIG IF there and if he is really obscuring you directly so that you cannot breathe spiritually

Understand and let me reiterate that if he forces you and stop you from practising your faith and never decides to change his ways, then in reality there is no future for you and him, but if he changes his ways, then he will move with you towards God.

Also your question about the food and all that socializing , your assumptions and suspicion is correct in seeing the bad in it, eating for appetites and purely for "tasty" food is not good for your soul, and should be avoided. Excess eating and stuffing yourself is a great highly negative thing as a muslim and should be avoided. in fact there are many hadiths which highly discourage to eat much, and even highly discourage to eat to the point of being full. The recommendatory is to eat a few morsels of food from the Prophet, and if this is not enough then the prophet recommends to eat food which fills 1/3 your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, and 1/3 for air

Inshallah good luck

  • Advanced Member
Posted

(salam)

There has been much good advice posted here. I would just add that there are many born Muslim men that do not attend parties, allow themselves to be influenced by bad friends, do not listen to rap or other music, and do their best to avoid paying interest. Each person is an individual with their own approach. What you have to decide is whether his approach is something you can live with should it not change or become less favorable to your faith and Islamic practices. Be very careful and do not rush into a permanent marriage until you are comfortable in this area.

I wish you the best.

(wasalam)

Posted

here is a few hadith(both sunni and shia about food) which i think you would find interesting

On the authority of Al-Miqdaam ibn Maadiy-Karib who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah saying: "No human ever filled a vessel worse than the stomach. Sufficient for any son of Adam are some morsels to keep his back straight. But if it must be, then one third for his food, one third for his drink and one third for his breath."

Ahmad, At-Tirmidhi, An-Nasaa’I, Ibn Majah – Hadith sahih.

1. Ibn Masaweh, a Muslim doctor, said after reading this hadith: "If the people only used these words, they would avoid all diseases and maladies and the clinics and pharmacies would be idle."

2. Another doctor, Al-Harith ibn Kalada said: That which has killed mankind is the introduction of food on top of food before it has been digested.

3. As for spiritual benefits: humbleness of heart, strength of understanding, lessening of lower desires, lessening of personal opinions and anger, while overeating induces the opposites of all of those. Al-Hassan Al-Basri said:
"O, son of Adam, eat with one third of your stomach and drink with one third and leave one third of your stomach to breathe so that you may think."

4. Ibn Umar: A man said to Ibn Umar: Shouldn’t I bring you some
jawarish
? Ibn Umar said: What is that? He said: Something which aids in digesting your food after you eat. Ibn Umar said: I have not eaten to being full for four months. That is not because I am not able to do so, but I was with a group of people who were hungry more than they were full.

5. Not reaching your goals: Muhammad ibn Wasi said: Whoever eats little will understand and make others understand and will be clear and humble. Overeating weighs a person down and keeps him from much of what he wants [to accomplish]."

6. Al-Hassan Al-Basri: The test of Adam, peace be upon him, was food and it is your test until Qiyama. And, it used to be said: Whoever takes control of his stomach gets control of all good deeds. And: Wisdom does not reside in a full stomach. One day, Al-Hassan offered some food to his companion who said: I have eaten until I am no longer able to eat. To which Al-Hassan said: Subhaana
Allah
! Does a Muslim eat until he is no longer able to eat?

7.
Allah
grants this world to those whom He loves and those He does not love but only grants hunger to those whom he loves.

8. Ash-Shafi’I said: I have not filled myself in sixteen years because filling oneself makes the body heavy, removes clear understanding, induces sleep and makes one weak for worship.

9. In Muslim and Bukhari
: "The believer eats with one stomach while the kafir eats with seven stomachs."
Meaning: The believer eats with the manners of Islam and in moderation, while the karif eats based on desires and gluttony and so he eats with seven stomachs.

10. Also:
"Food for one is enough for two and food for two is enough for three and food for three is enough for four."

11. Also:
From Aisha: The family of Muhammad (sas) never filled themselves with wheat bread three days in a row from the time he came to Madinah until he passed away."

12. A Muslim should not merely follow his appetites.
Allah
said:
{Then, they were followed by generations who neglected the prayer and followed their appetites. They will encounter a pit of fire except for those who repent…}
Maryam 59-60.

13. The best generations didn’t.
"The best generation is my generation, followed by the one after them then the one after them. Then will come a people who bear witness but are not asked to bear witness, who swear oaths but do not fulfill them and fatness will appear among them."
(Muslim &Bukhari).

14. From Abi Barza that the Prophet (sas) said:
"My greatest fear for you is the appetites of transgression with regard to your stomachs and your privates and the inclinations which lead astray".
(Ahmad and others and its narrators are people of sahih)
On the authority of Al-Miqdaam ibn Maadiy-Karib who said: I heard the Messenger of
Allah
saying: "No human ever filled a vessel worse than the stomach. Sufficient for any son of Adam are some morsels to keep his back straight. But if it must be, then one third for his food, one third for his drink and one third for his breath."

Ahmad, At-Tirmidhi, An-Nasaa’I, Ibn Majah – Hadith sahih.

  • Basic Members
Posted

so many great replies and info gained from this post! thanks for sharing everyone. lots of points i didn't even think of myself as a revert.

  • Advanced Member
Posted

I've been through a somewhat similar situation, where i was with a woman for almost 3 years, and in the end when it came down to marriage, i realised even though she believed in Allah, she was not growing more in love with Him, as i was. i had to accept she did not have pure conviction in His Worship, and complete understanding of His love,

Strange that you mention this, as this is exactly where i am at atm, its such a tough and emotional time, a test from Allah swt perhaps, i always keep thinking, maybe his heart will open more, perhaps he needs encouragement, example, influance, i know its is only Allah swt that guides whom he wills (not that im saying he is without guideance) i just wish he was more of a deeper thinker and feeler for Islam for Allah swt in all aspects of life not just in prayer, whatever may happen, i pray he be able to experiance it before life is done inshallah whatever is Allahs will, will be done.

Thanks again for response brother interesting points and objectives.

Wasalam

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