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Aarash_Australia

No Afghans Need Apply

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http://www.mehrnews.com/FA/newsdetail.aspx?NewsID=1617300

http://www.rferl.org/content/iran-list-of-university-courses-banned-for-afghans/24602340.html

The National Organization for Educational Testing has published of list of university degrees that are banned for Afghans living in Iran - mostly engineering, advanced science degrees, military science, etc.

Mehr argues that allowing Afghans to become qualified in these areas, would create an obligation to employ them, as opposed to less qualified native Iranians.

Mehr also tells us that Afghans can only apply to universities in areas where they are not already banned, including a dozen provinces and a number of cities throughout Iran.

Keep in mind that a sizeable percentage of these Afghans are Shia Hazars....

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Apparently forcing people to live in poverty and forcing them into criminality is a better moral choice than employing them, even if they are more suitable for the job than other persons. Rest in peace, Islam. We will miss you...

Edited by anwarul malakoot

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Kind of misrepresentation of the problem.

Direct translation from the Mehr site, which has nothing to with afghans in particular but afflicts afghans in most cases:

"the acceptance of non-nationals in disciplines that lead to employment obligations to the Islamic Republic of Iran is prohibited"

Iran has the biggest and largest amount of illegal immigrants and legal immigrants in the world, compared to it's own population. It is a big problem for Iranians themselves to get a job, and it's specially a problem to give foreigners jobs in areas that are sensitive like nuclear, aerospace, weapons engineering.

I think it would be wise to actually present the article in a fair and appropriate matter.

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Middle-eastern countries, Asian countries... in fact many countries prefer their giving work to their own citizens first.

I personally belong to the school of thought of not considering nationality in any such thing (no borders, no visa systems, no preferential treatment, etc).

But in today's world almost every single country has discrimination on the grounds of nationality and citizenship, Iran too. Sigh. But whatchagonnado?

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Kind of misrepresentation of the problem.

Direct translation from the Mehr site, which has nothing to with afghans in particular but afflicts afghans in most cases:

Iran has the biggest and largest amount of illegal immigrants and legal immigrants in the world, compared to it's own population. It is a big problem for Iranians themselves to get a job, and it's specially a problem to give foreigners jobs in areas that are sensitive like nuclear, aerospace, weapons engineering.

I think it would be wise to actually present the article in a fair and appropriate matter.

Excuse me, but exactly how, did I misrepresent it.

All you did is re-state the facts that I listed, in a slightly more generous way.

And it's totally misleading to imply that there are national security concerns here - becoming an engineer doesn't enable you to spy!

As always, simply imagine the reverse.

Imagine this was a story from the USA or France or the UK, wherein the government forbade Muslims from studying certain subjects, and banned them from certain areas.

You'd be crying racism, apartheid, fascism!

Which is exactly what this is.

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http://www.mehrnews....?NewsID=1617300

http://www.rferl.org...s/24602340.html

The National Organization for Educational Testing has published of list of university degrees that are banned for Afghans living in Iran - mostly engineering, advanced science degrees, military science, etc.

Mehr argues that allowing Afghans to become qualified in these areas, would create an obligation to employ them, as opposed to less qualified native Iranians.

Mehr also tells us that Afghans can only apply to universities in areas where they are not already banned, including a dozen provinces and a number of cities throughout Iran.

Keep in mind that a sizeable percentage of these Afghans are Shia Hazars....

Almost all universities are free and government takes care of school fee and boarding. Try this in other socialist countries such as Canada or UK and you will get the same reply. Pay 3-4x more than the local students pay and come join the party. In non socialist states too such as USA, in state students pay x, out of state students (those who are still Americans but are from a different state) pay 3-5x more.

Besides, for sensitive subjects, every country has certain glass ceilings for foreigners. Try getting into a prestigious aero-space engineering or nuclear engineering programs in a Russian or French university. You won't even get an admission.

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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Almost all universities are free and government takes care of school fee and boarding. Try this in other socialist countries such as Canada or UK and you will get the same reply. Pay 3-4x more than the local students pay and come join the party. In non socialist states too such as USA, in state students pay x, out of state students (those who are still Americans but are from a different state) pay 3-5x more.

Besides, for sensitive subjects, every country has certain glass ceilings for foreigners. Try getting into a prestigious aero-space engineering or nuclear engineering programs in a Russian or French university. You won't even get an admission.

see my post above.

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As always, simply imagine the reverse.

Imagine this was a story from the USA or France or the UK, wherein the government forbade Muslims from studying certain subjects, and banned them from certain areas.

You'd be crying racism, apartheid, fascism!

Which is exactly what this is.

The Netherlands, the Most Tolerant Country In The Whole World, has already banned Iranians from studying nuclear-related subjects. But of course, you won't be able to see it with your West-obsessed glasses on.

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The Netherlands, the Most Tolerant Country In The Whole World, has already banned Iranians from studying nuclear-related subjects. But of course, you won't be able to see it with your West-obsessed glasses on.

And how right do you think they are?

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Middle-eastern countries, Asian countries... in fact many countries prefer their giving work to their own citizens first.

I personally belong to the school of thought of not considering nationality in any such thing (no borders, no visa systems, no preferential treatment, etc).

But in today's world almost every single country has discrimination on the grounds of nationality and citizenship, Iran too. Sigh. But whatchagonnado?

ok but in that case y just single out afghans instead of all foreiners?

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Excuse me, but exactly how, did I misrepresent it.

All you did is re-state the facts that I listed, in a slightly more generous way.

And it's totally misleading to imply that there are national security concerns here - becoming an engineer doesn't enable you to spy!

As always, simply imagine the reverse.

Imagine this was a story from the USA or France or the UK, wherein the government forbade Muslims from studying certain subjects, and banned them from certain areas.

You'd be crying racism, apartheid, fascism!

Which is exactly what this is.

I have no sympathy for elitism where ever it takes place - be it Iran or the rest of the world. Iranians have a had problem with mistreating afghans for a very long time, not every iranian but in general the society doesn't look at them as equal human beings.

With that being said - the only reason I wanted to post was to point out in the west they have already banned Iranians from working in certain fields as well as studying various subjects - largely related to metallurgy. This ban was implemented several years ago.

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I dont think the foreigners are going away - wouldnt it be better to educate and employ them rather than be a drain on resources?

I doubt that they be drain because to make it to those programs, from very hard socio-economic backgrounds, is proof enough that those students are seekers and hard workers.

In case people do not know, the university entrance exams in Iran is not like Western countries. Aforementioned positions require real good marks and dedication. I agree that its better to educate them because no good deed ever goes to waste. Then again we are talking state- a blind entity.

With that being said - the only reason I wanted to post was to point out in the west they have already banned Iranians from working in certain fields as well as studying various subjects - largely related to metallurgy. This ban was implemented several years ago.

To a Dutch or a Finish it makes less of a difference if an Iranian is educated or otherwise when compared to Iranians and Afghans. Today Afghanistan is known to be the only Central Asian state with a Shia capital. Shias in Afghanistan make a substantial part of the Afghan govt. Most of the lower rank (honest ranks) positions are filled with Afghans who studied in Iran- a win-win situation for both. The same goes when it comes to media and television.

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Iran at least should allowed the Shia Afghans loyal to Islam... it is not fair... and Iran doesn't have to employ Afghans or other foreigners it doesn't trust in higher positions... once they are educated, they can go back to their country! If anything, Afghans won't be able to use their know-how to build anything dangerous or use it against Iran in Afghanistan for decades to come.

Anyhow, one thing I should say here, Afghans themselves do not tolerate anything foreign themselves. They are known to be the most strict people when it comes to 'foreign' of anything. If Afghans had the chance, they would do worse than anyone to any kind of refugees. Back in 1992 there was a small fighting in Tajikistan, some refugees had to cross border and enter North Afghanistan. In a matter of a few months, they had all their expensive goods taken, some of their young boys and their women were raped and in some cases killed or taken hostages as slaves.

Also, the other day ceremonies were held to commemorate Imam Khomeinis anniversary across the world, including Britain, Holland, France, Pakistan, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan and many more countries. The only country whose some of its citizens took to the streets, chanted slogans against the event, and crossed the pictures of Imam Khomeini were the people in Kabul, Afghanistan.. And surprisingly, it wasn't mostly the Salafis or Afghan nationalists, majority of those people who protested and chanted were from the Shia communities of Kabul. This happens in a time while 100s of such events for other foreign causes and foreign personalities are being held in Afghanistan and no one ever protested those.

Why they did it? To tell their fellow Afghans that if some Shia Afghans honor Khomeini they are Iranian agents, while they want to come clean and say they hate Iran more than anyone else.

There are also some other political things going on inside Afghanistan at the moment.. nowadays majority of the media and officials in all sectors are filled with ex-communists loyal to the West and with people loyal to Saudis... in every political moment and its up-&-down they considere Iran as the number one enemy state who interferes in Afghanistan's internal affairs...and then of course the bogeyman Pakistan... to cover up their failure and incite public opinion against Iran.

Iran on the other hand who can't do much to stop those, is taking it out on refugees and issues related to them living inside Iran.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

khomeini-comm-kabul-1.jpg

Kabul, Afg.

khomeini-comm-kabul-3.jpg

Kabul, Afg.

khomeini-comm-kabul-2.jpg

Kabul, Afg.

And then the protesters:

khomeini-comm-kabul-8.jpg

A crowd of Hazaras protesting Khoemini commemorations. The playcards read:

"This is Kabul, not Tehran or Qum"

"To you living on the crums (of Iran): Enough dishonesty!"

"Khomeini's Death Anniversary Sparks Intense Controversy in Kabul

Ayatollah Khomeini's death anniversary on June 3rd has sparked a fierce debate among the Hazara intellectuals all over the world. Social media sites such as Facebook has seen a flurry of activity among Hazaras after the posting of images for and against the anniversary commemorations in Kabul, Afghanistan."

Hazara.net

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Doesn't the quranic verse say; "Verily in the Prophet lies a good example for you."? I did not read it say "Verily in the countries and governments of the west lies a good example for you"... I can't care less what kuffar do in their countries.

Edited by anwarul malakoot

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Doesn't the quranic verse say; "Verily in the Prophet lies a good example for you."? I did not read it say "Verily in the countries and governments of the west lies a good example for you"... I can't care less what kuffar do in their countries.

Who said any thing about justifying iran's actions by what western countries do?

I don't even know how true these news reports are but if they are true - its wrong and its a type of oppression. I mentioned the ban on Iranian students in europe from entering specific fields because brother Aarash_Australia said this:

Imagine this was a story from the USA or France or the UK, wherein the government forbade Muslims from studying certain subjects, and banned them from certain areas.

You'd be crying racism, apartheid, fascism!

I was just pointing out to him that this has already taken place.

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I was not aiming at you, Al-Mufeed. My reply was aimed at several other people here on this thread. Sorry for the misunderstanding that I caused.

Just a general observation; sometimes I get the impression that Muslims seem to think it is okay (or at least less worse) when Muslims mistreat Muslims and deprave them of rights. However, when non-Muslims mistreat Muslims it is oppression and God-knows-what.

I agree that the west's policies are not friendly towards Islam and Muslims. But Iran is no virgin either, even though there are a lot of good aspects about living there. Some things about Iran are very good, some things are very bad. If it is bad, then you criticize it and do not try to make excuses. If it is good, then you support it. This which is posted here is one of the aspects of Iran which is very bad.

The Islamic community needs some more introspection at times, and start measuring things with one equal measure. Especially this is one of these points, even though this might be a sensitive issue to some. There is no shame in admitting that certain things that take place in Iran are not in accordance with Islam, although the head of the state is a mujtahid.

Iran is not identical to Islam, so there is no need for anyone of the Afghani community to become oversensitive either. It is a state like many others that we find on this globe, so it is natural that we find problems there as well. However, at the same time this is something that should not be allowed to take place and in my opinion the people responsible for this should be ashamed of themselves.

The thing that saddens me a lot is that Muslims are forced to migrate to darul Kufr like this, simply in order to get basic human rights like being able to get properly educated, or even earn a basic living. An Islamic state could make very good use of people like this in order to strengthen their position outside of the country by starting to treat them well and giving them at least some basic rights.

I find it appalling that in a country that calls for the implementation of Islam a non-religious, Islam-hating Iranian in theory is more entitled to having education and a job than a God-fearing immigrant.

Edited by anwarul malakoot

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Excuse me, but exactly how, did I misrepresent it.

All you did is re-state the facts that I listed, in a slightly more generous way.

And it's totally misleading to imply that there are national security concerns here - becoming an engineer doesn't enable you to spy!

As always, simply imagine the reverse.

Imagine this was a story from the USA or France or the UK, wherein the government forbade Muslims from studying certain subjects, and banned them from certain areas.

You'd be crying racism, apartheid, fascism!

Which is exactly what this is.

No you may not be excused, because you have done this before, and you have been busted doing so. You have a tendency to represent Iranian issues in a negative way in order to strengthen your Anit-Government agenda. And yes, you have one such agenda.

If you want to link such a news, at least have the decency to translate so people can understand. Or paste it in the Iranian sub forum.

The fact of the matter is that all the subjects, where foreigners, meaning non citizens, and not just afghans, that are listed are security related, aerospace, military related or nuclear related subjects. And you have to hire these people afterwards, and right now Iran is in a cold war whether you like it or not. No point in letting people study a field where there is no way in hell they will get a job afterwards. If Norway was in a cold war being spy infested and prone to sabotage, i would understand if they didn't want non nationals in subjects related to security issues. Has nothing to do with racism or religion. There is a reason naive people like yourself aren't hired to decide such things.

Edited by repenter

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Excuse me, but exactly how, did I misrepresent it.

All you did is re-state the facts that I listed, in a slightly more generous way.

And it's totally misleading to imply that there are national security concerns here - becoming an engineer doesn't enable you to spy!

As always, simply imagine the reverse.

Imagine this was a story from the USA or France or the UK, wherein the government forbade Muslims from studying certain subjects, and banned them from certain areas.

You'd be crying racism, apartheid, fascism!

Which is exactly what this is.

Hey look another Anti-Iran posting from you. You got some serious beef with Iran. Even the malangs dont go to the lengths you do.

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No you may not be excused, because you have done this before, and you have been busted doing so. You have a tendency to represent Iranian issues in a negative way in order to strengthen your Anit-Government agenda. And yes, you have one such agenda.

If you want to link such a news, at least have the decency to translate so people can understand. Or paste it in the Iranian sub forum.

The fact of the matter is that all the subjects, where foreigners, meaning non citizens, and not just afghans, that are listed are security related, aerospace, military related or nuclear related subjects. And you have to hire these people afterwards, and right now Iran is in a cold war whether you like it or not. No point in letting people study a field where there is no way in hell they will get a job afterwards. If Norway was in a cold war being spy infested and prone to sabotage, i would understand if they didn't want non nationals in subjects related to security issues. Has nothing to do with racism or religion. There is a reason naive people like yourself aren't hired to decide such things.

But that's simply not true, is it?

Civil Engineering is a security risk? Mechanical engineering is a security risk?

The article doesn't say the ban only applies to nuclear and military fields.

What's more, you conveniently ignore the fact that Afghans are banned, entirely banned, from certain parts of the country - cities, localities, public parks, etc.

That, my naivefriend, is apartheid. Apartheid that doesn't even exist in the Zionist state of Israel - let alone the West.

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But that's simply not true, is it?

Civil Engineering is a security risk? Mechanical engineering is a security risk?

The article doesn't say the ban only applies to nuclear and military fields.

What's more, you conveniently ignore the fact that Afghans are banned, entirely banned, from certain parts of the country - cities, localities, public parks, etc.

That, my naivefriend, is apartheid. Apartheid that doesn't even exist in the Zionist state of Israel - let alone the West.

You don't know what apartheid is.

Apartheid is you can only use one road to get home because other roads are off-limit to you, you can not open a window on the west side of the city, you can not have the door opening in the street, you can not have your kids wear red on Saturday, your young daughter has to come for a virginity exam before getting married and be approved to be able to married, you can not go to Hospital A because its reserved for only the superior race, you can not buy house or land in certain parts of city because you are not supposed to...

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You don't know what apartheid is.

Apartheid is you can only use one road to get home because other roads are off-limit to you, you can not open a window on the west side of the city, you can not have the door opening in the street, you can not have your kids wear red on Saturday, your young daughter has to come for a virginity exam before getting married and be approved to be able to married, you can not go to Hospital A because its reserved for only the superior race, you can not buy house or land in certain parts of city because you are not supposed to...

Right, and none of those things can you find in Israel.

One of those you can find in the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Two of those can you find in Saudi Arabia.

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Right, and none of those things can you find in Israel.

One of those you can find in the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Two of those can you find in Saudi Arabia.

I asked you before , It seems that you spend all your time looking for dirt on Iran. You go to greater lengths then the Malangs. Why this trawling of the internet looking for dirt. Doesnt seem like you ever make a thread of anything else

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Right, and none of those things can you find in Israel.

One of those you can find in the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Two of those can you find in Saudi Arabia.

Hmmm so that massive concrete wall in Palestine isnt apartheid ? either way , araash, he or she, melb or tehran, whatever, your not doing too well here. If you do or did support the shah, then i now understand why he failed so badly, you guys are just junk.

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Hmmm so that massive concrete wall in Palestine isnt apartheid ? either way , araash, he or she, melb or tehran, whatever, your not doing too well here. If you do or did support the shah, then i now understand why he failed so badly, you guys are just junk.

No, that separates Israel, from the West Bank (Palestinian Territory).

Within Israel, Arabs and Jews and Christians and Atheists and Pagans mix freely.

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No, that separates Israel, from the West Bank (Palestinian Territory).

Within Israel, Arabs and Jews and Christians and Atheists and Pagans mix freely.

spit it out whats your beef and hatred of Iran. Sorry all this time I thought you was muslim as your profile claimed. I now see that you are not muslim at all just a sh-t stirrer

Edited by A true Sunni

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Shia from all over the world is now looking to Iran. I just want to ask these people one question.

What have you people done for Iran, that you want your shares back.

Everybody is responsible to himself, no one else can take that place.

Everyone has brain and can also achieve what Iranians have achieved but no they prefer to sit like a duck and wait for others to achieve something.

Instead of appreciating their success they will demand their shares.

Are we Muslims somekind of jokers or what because this disease can only be found in us.

So embarrasing.

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I don't get this. Iran calling itself an islamic nation bans education on non iraninas but the west, known as kafir, opens education to anyone. Even Iranians studying in America. But I am sure that an American wouldn't be allowed to studying in Iran as freely as an Iranian is allowed to study in America. What has the world come to? The western countries treat people more fairly.

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I don't get this. Iran calling itself an islamic nation bans education on non iraninas but the west, known as kafir, opens education to anyone. Even Iranians studying in America. But I am sure that an American wouldn't be allowed to studying in Iran as freely as an Iranian is allowed to study in America. What has the world come to? The western countries treat people more fairly.

Do you even know what you are talking about. Do you think you can take admission in west in any subject. It may be true in your dreams but reality is quite different.

I think you need to explore a little bit before throwing mud on someone else.

Even Muslims living in west have now become materialistic at its best.

Edited by fightingsoul001

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Do you even know what you are talking about. Do you think you can take admission in west in any subject. It may be true in your dreams but reality is quite different.

I think you need to explore a little bit before throwing mud on someone else.

Even Muslims living in west have now become materialistic at its best.

of course u can, im preparing for it as we speak! the only thing that mihgt stop me from applying to a good college would be the cost.

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Well in medical all of my friends were rejected to take admission in respectable fields. Preferences were given to locals and we were at the end despite our high merit in qualifying exams. Although some of them were given admission in dermatology but all of my friends came back in despair.

They can very easily enter into medicine in Iran, although Iran is not our country.

Some of my friends are even doing fellowship there.

West has resources that is why it seems they give opertunities to everyone, otherwise they are no different.

And Iranians have not banned education on foreigners in all the subjects, only certain subjects may have limited seats and they may need that speciality in their country.

Edited by fightingsoul001

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Well in medical all of my friends were rejected to take admission in respectable fields. Preferences were given to locals and we were at the end despite our high merit in qualifying exams. Although some of them were given admission in dermatology but all of my friends came back in despair.

They can very easily enter into medicine in Iran, although Iran is not our country.

Some of my friends are even doing fellowship there.

West has resources that is why it seems they give opertunities to everyone, otherwise they are no different.

And Iranians have not banned education on foreigners in all the subjects, only certain subjects may have limited seats and they may need that speciality in their country.

its the same thing in iran, u need to take an exam before entry and many ppl will be rejected cuz there is only so many they can except.

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Well in medical all of my friends were rejected to take admission in respectable fields. Preferences were given to locals and we were at the end despite our high merit in qualifying exams. Although some of them were given admission in dermatology but all of my friends came back in despair.

Err, a huge amount of the doctors here are Indian or Indian-American, I've seen the figure being 1 in 20 doctors here which is way disproportionate to how many Indians there actually are in the US..

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