Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Jesus Did Not Own Slaves, And He Respects Women!

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Veteran Member

Hello,

Jesus, who chose 12 apostles and taught them, did not own slaves. The apostles were not slaves, but were rather his students. Just as teachers/professors give orders to their students, so Jesus gave orders to his apostles, as well as all of his disciples (followers). The apostles also did not own slaves... many of them were poor uneducated fishermen. For those like Matthew, a former tax collector, he left his career (and possible his formerly life which might have included slaves) in order to follow Jesus!

Jesus respected women!!! :) How Jesus treated women, including his mother Mary, the Samaritan women, the woman caught in adultery (and where the man went to I don't know), other women known as being "sinful", including prostitutes, elderly widows, the mother-in-law of Peter, and on and on, Jesus treated them with kindness, granting the requests God allowed him to grant them.

Jesus is a wonderful role model in these ways, as well as many other ways!!! I am so grateful to God that Jesus, who is my Master, did not own slaves and treated women with respect!

For Muslims, do you as well rejoice in the fact that Jesus did not own slaves and respects women?

Peace and God bless you

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 72
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

It's just a total coincidence that while there's some other threads where some Muslims are struggling with the apparent acceptance of slavery (something accepted in the Bible as well btw) and position

You're really becoming tiring. I'll just send this as a warning too, attempts to proselytize your religion here are not welcome, and will be met with a ban.

ChristianLady, Bible is full of condensending statements about women -blaming Eve for the original sin and calling women [Edited Out]s and harlots. Christianity doesn't give rights to women even over

  • Veteran Member

You're really becoming tiring. I'll just send this as a warning too, attempts to proselytize your religion here are not welcome, and will be met with a ban.

Hello Macisaac,

I have been informed by most Muslims that Jesus is respected by Muslims and is considered to be a prophet and the Messiah. Is writing about Jesus proselytizing? Do Muslims believe that Jesus did buy slaves and that he did not respect women?

Peace and God bless you

And what of the role of husband and father?

Hello Propaganda of the Deed,

Since Jesus was not a husband, he obviously is not a role model in the physical practice for people concerning being a husband. Since he did not have kids, he is not a role model in having biological children either.

However, respecting people, including women, is a wonderful trait for being both a husband and a father, as well as a wonderful trait for women being both a wife and a mother, yes?

Most importantly, Jesus' trust in God (who he called Father) and love for God is a wonderful trait and is an awesome example for everyone, regardless of their ethnicity, social status, roles in life, and gender.

Since he is coming back again (which I know most Muslims believe too) I am looking forward to the Day! :)

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Forum Administrators

For Muslims, do you as well rejoice in the fact that Jesus did not own slaves and respects women?

In light of recent threads on Shiachat, you may need to update this to include Jesus (a.s.) making charitable contributions to people making online donation requests.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Hello Propaganda of the Deed,

Since Jesus was not a husband, he obviously is not a role model in the physical practice for people concerning being a husband. Since he did not have kids, he is not a role model in having biological children either.

Cheers. That's all you needed to say.

Have a good day.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Forum Administrators

It's just a total coincidence that while there's some other threads where some Muslims are struggling with the apparent acceptance of slavery

She forgot to mention that Jesus (a.s.) did not engage in mutah and he did not have four wives. Unlike other Prophets he did not do any smiting either.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

ChristianLady,

Bible is full of condensending statements about women -blaming Eve for the original sin and calling women [Edited Out]s and harlots. Christianity doesn't give rights to women even over her own sexuality. How many of your Pope supported mass slaugher of innocent lives? I am not just talking about the crusades, but all the church backed activity like the Spanish inquisition and your pope crazy support of hitler.

And the most disgusting thing is that you make a man, Jesus, into a God!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

In light of recent threads on Shiachat, you may need to update this to include Jesus (a.s.) making charitable contributions to people making online donation requests.

Hello Hajj,

? As far as I know, Jesus did not make charitable contributions. However, he did say the following about a poor widow who he watched giving at the Temple in Jerusalem:

Mark 12 - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12&version=NIV

(I boldened some.)

"41Jesus sat down opposite the place where the offerings were put and watched the crowd putting their money into the temple treasury. Many rich people threw in large amounts. 42 But a poor widow came and put in two very small copper coins, worth only a few cents.

43 Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. 44 They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”"

This lady, who needed charity, gave. I don't know what the money in the temple treasury was for, but God does.

Jesus did pay the temple tax, however:

Matthew 17 - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+17&version=NIV

(I boldened some.)

"24 After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma temple tax came to Peter and asked, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the temple tax?”

25 “Yes, he does,” he replied.

When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. “What do you think, Simon?” he asked. “From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes —from their own children or from others?”

26 “From others,” Peter answered.

“Then the children are exempt,” Jesus said to him. 27“But so that we may not cause offense, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.”

Peace and God bless you

It's just a total coincidence that while there's some other threads where some Muslims are struggling with the apparent acceptance of slavery (something accepted in the Bible as well btw) and position of women in Islam, that you happen to create some threads extolling the supposed Christian views on this (I say supposed since your own history isn't not exactly much favorable to either women or slaves)? Please, we're not stupid, we know what you're trying to do here. So this is a (not so gentle) warning to stop it. There's plenty of Christian forums out there if that's what you wish to do.

Hello Macisaac,

I love Jesus. I don't know if you do, but I know there are Muslims who love Jesus too.

Writing about Jesus is not inviting people to be Christians. it's writing about Jesus.

Peace and God bless you

ChristianLady,

Bible is full of condensending statements about women -blaming Eve for the original sin and calling women [Edited Out]s and harlots. Christianity doesn't give rights to women even over her own sexuality. How many of your Pope supported mass slaugher of innocent lives? I am not just talking about the crusades, but all the church backed activity like the Spanish inquisition and your pope crazy support of hitler.

And the most disgusting thing is that you make a man, Jesus, into a God!

Hello Gypsy,

I guess your issue with is with Judaism then, because Christianity did not exist until Jesus (the Christ) taught his followers.

As for the belief that Jesus is God, that is not the topic of this thread, though I do believe that God respects women He made too, and that God sees all people as His slaves/servants.

Peace and God bless you

She forgot to mention that Jesus (a.s.) did not engage in mutah and he did not have four wives. Unlike other Prophets he did not do any smiting either.

Hello Hajj,

Well, it is true that Jesus did not engage in mutah, that he did not have 4 wives (or even 1) I am not sure what smiting is so I don't know if he engaged in that or not.

Peace and God bless you

Link to post
Share on other sites

" witches' Hammer "----remember christianLady ?

how many innocent women were burnt alive on the stakes by the order of Church.

I have read this book, want me to quote it here ???????

I am already stressed beyond endurance, please do not aggravate the situation.....please

Edited by ShahBano_BZ
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Cheers. That's all you needed to say.

Have a good day.

Hello Propaganda of the Deed,

Do you learn anything from Jesus?

Jesus' character and his love of God (who he called Father) is a wonderful role model for any person, which includes husbands, fathers, wives, and mothers.

Peace and God bless you

" witches' Hammer "----remember christianLady ?

how many innocent women were burnt alive on the stakes by the order of Church.

I have read this book, want me to quote it here ???????

Hello Shahbano,

Did Jesus burn witches?

Peace and God bless you

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

It's just a total coincidence that while there's some other threads where some Muslims are struggling with the apparent acceptance of slavery (something accepted in the Bible as well btw) and position of women in Islam, that you happen to create some threads extolling the supposed Christian views on this (I say supposed since your own history isn't not exactly much favorable to either women or slaves)? Please, we're not stupid, we know what you're trying to do here. So this is a (not so gentle) warning to stop it. There's plenty of Christian forums out there if that's what you wish to do.

Her likes are always knocking on my door almost every month. She probably used our kindness and the polite manner shown by our religion to forward her Christian agenda. It doesn't take long for her likes to be eventually exposed.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I remember reading in a cracked.com article a few months ago, an article titled something like "5 most badass bible verses" or some such article, where they showed a narration in the Bible that Jesus (as) killed a man. Muslims don't believe that, however, if we take the whole Bible it does contain some not very PC things.

EDIT: Come on, everybody, leave off attacking her. She is a Christian, and naturally trying to present Christianity in a positive way for us, let's not take it negatively and start warning and banning left and right. She has seen the "Why does Islam allow slavery" thread, now she wants to tell us (especially the members who are very shocked that its not banned in Islam), about how Jesus (as) did not keep slaves (ie, in contrast to Muhammad (saaw) no doubt ). Let's go over and examine Christianity and slavery and women, rather than warning her not to create these sort of topics.

Edited by titumir
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Her likes are always knocking on my door almost every month. She probably used our kindness and the polite manner shown by our religion to forward her Christian agenda. It doesn't take long for her likes to be eventually exposed.

Hello Gypsy,

Do you love Jesus?

Jesus is not a Christian character.

Jesus is the Messiah, the Christ.

Jesus is not a Christian church, he is the Christ.

Do you not believe that? I thought Muslims believe that Jesus is the Christ = Messiah.

Peace and God bless you

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

The Old Testament allows slavery, God in the Old Testament orders prophets to take slaves, Jesus upheld the Old Testament (and in fact authored it if you are a Trinitarian Christian), and Paul advised a slave to return to his master (both slave and master were Christians btw) and generally told slaves to obey their masters.

References can be provided for those who are interested.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

I remember reading in a cracked.com article a few months ago, an article titled something like "5 most badass bible verses" or some such article, where they showed a narration in the Bible that Jesus (as) killed a man. Muslims don't believe that, however, if we take the whole Bible it does contain some not very PC things.

Hello Titumir,

Could you please post any verse in the Bible where it says that Jesus killed a man? Jesus also did not kill anyone, so I would be interested in seeing that verse. Thank you.

Peace and God bless you

The Old Testament allows slavery, God in the Old Testament orders prophets to take slaves, Jesus upheld the Old Testament (and in fact authored it if you are a Trinitarian Christian), and Paul advised a slave to return to his master (both slave and master were Christians btw) and generally told slaves to obey their masters.

References can be provided for those who are interested.

Hello Haydar Husayn,

Jesus is Jewish yes, and is the fulfillment of the prophesies/promises that God gave concerning him to the children of Israel (descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob). However, Jesus did not buy slaves or kill people. Instead, he taught the people to love God and love others.

Concerning Paul, Paul kindly ordered Philemon to set Onesimus free.

Philemon - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philemon+1&version=NIV

(I boldened some.)

"yet I prefer to appeal to you on the basis of love. It is as none other than Paul—an old man and now also a prisoner of Christ Jesus— 10 that I appeal to you for my son Onesimus,[b] who became my son while I was in chains. 11 Formerly he was useless to you, but now he has become useful both to you and to me.

12 I am sending him—who is my very heart—back to you. 13 I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I am in chains for the gospel. 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary. 15 Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever— 16 no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a fellow man and as a brother in the Lord."

Paul was kindly ordering him to free Onesimus.

Peace and God bless you

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Jesus respected women!!! :) How Jesus treated women, including his mother Mary, <...snip...>

John 2:1-4']

On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; and both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding. When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.” And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us?"

:donno:

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Come on, everybody, leave off attacking her. She is a Christian,

Hello Titumir,

Thanks.

It is interesting how I'm being attacked, when both Muslims and Christians believe in Jesus.. That is very sad. :( Though it is true that Muslims and Christians believe different things concerning Jesus, Jesus is AWESOME, right? Or do Muslims on here not consider Jesus to be a wonderful prophet from God? I believe Jesus is a wonderful prophet from God (as well as many other roles), the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 18, 2 Samuel 7, 1 Chronicles 17, Psalm 2, Psalm 22, Psalm 89, Isaiah 42, Isaiah 53, and so on) I understand Muslims don't believe everything I do, but they do love and respect Jesus right???

I LOVE JESUS.

and naturally trying to present Christianity in a positive way for us, let's not take it negatively and start warning and banning left and right.

Thank you. I am a Christian whole heartedly. Of course I'm going to present Christianity in a positive way, same as a wholehearted Muslim presents Islam in a positive way. I respect Muslims who believe what they believe, and I enjoy interfaith discussions.

She has seen the "Why does Islam allow slavery" thread, now she wants to tell us (especially the members who are very shocked that its not banned in Islam), about how Jesus

Actually, some Muslim members here have been attacking Christianity and so I have been explaining the Bible passages concerning slaves, which are mostly written by Paul.

(as) did not keep slaves (ie, in contrast to Muhammad (saaw) no doubt ). Let's go over and examine Christianity and slavery and women, rather than warning her not to create these sort of topics.

Actually, I was contrasting between "Christians" who owned slaves, because a Muslim member on here said that what Christians nowadays believe concerning slavery is hypocritical, and it isn't, because Jesus and his apostles did not buy/own slaves.

Peace and God bless you

:donno:

Hello Wundermonk,

How is calling a woman, a woman, disrespectful?

Mary knew her son Jesus is the Messiah, which is why she asked him to do something.

John 2 - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%202&version=NIV

(I boldened some.)

"On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”

4 “Woman,[The Greek for Woman does not denote any disrespect.] why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.[b]

7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.

8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

11 What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

12 After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples. There they stayed for a few days."

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady
Link to post
Share on other sites

Do not twist things CLady,

He was ordained to live as a monk, part of the divine duty which was assigned to him, it was not a matter of personal choice there. there are many roles which he was just not supposed to play, as per divine doctrine-----

he was not a leader, he did not revolutionize the society, he was not a military commander.

His life presented a sliver of the ultimate divine message, not the whole intended message, which was completed with Islam finally.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

I, Paul, am a devoted slave of Jesus Christ Romans 1

Hello Rasul,

Aye. I am also a slave of Jesus, cause Jesus is my Master. :)

However, this is voluntary slavery - servanthood to God through Jesus.

Paul makes it clear that all people who follow Jesus are servants. That however is different than buying and selling slaves. For example, I am willing to die for Jesus. Why? Because I freely gave myself to be his servant because I love him. No amount of money in all the world would "free" me from Jesus? Why? Because I want with all of myself to be his servant, because I believe I am God's servant through serving Jesus.

Peace and God bless you

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you.

You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property.

You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness."

Leviticus 25.44-46

Slavery is ok according to Jesus

Edited by Rasul
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Do not twist things CLady,

He was ordained to live as a monk, part of the divine duty which was assigned to him, it was not a matter of personal choice there. there are many roles which he was just not supposed to play, as per divine doctrine-----

he was not a leader, he did not revolutionize the society, he was not a military commander.

His life presented a sliver of the ultimate divine message, not the whole intended message, which was completed with Islam finally.

Hello ShahBano,

Jewish history is different than Catholic history. Catholics have monks. However, Jesus was not born in a Catholic household. Catholicism didn't exist at that time. Rather, Jesus was born in a Jewish household, a miracle born of a virgin, Mary. Mary was Jewish. She followed the Tanakh, the Law that God gave to the children of Israel through Moses. Jesus did too. He knew the Tanakh and quoted from it as he taught the people about God and healed people.

If one researches the Tanakh, there are priests and there are Levites, not monks.

Peace and God bless you

"As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from the nations that are round about you.

You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property.

You may bequeath them to your sons after you, to inherit as a possession forever; you may make slaves of them, but over your brethren the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another, with harshness."

Leviticus 25.44-46

Slavery is ok according to Jesus

Jesus did not say Leviticus 25:44-46. Moses did.

Peace and God bless you

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Titus 2 (NIV)

9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them

Deuteronomy 20 (NIV)

10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies.

Numbers 31 (NIV)

3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel.” 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba —the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army —the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Regulations for keeping slaves can be found in the books of Exodus and Leviticus.

Now, if you are a Christian, then you believe God is the author of the Old Testament, and if you are a Trinitarian, then you believe Jesus is God. Therefore Jesus authored the Old Testament, and hence ordered the taking of slaves and generally allowed slavery in Jewish society.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Hello Christianlady:

Just that if I called my mom, "WOMAN", I would get one right on my head.

Hello Wundermonk,

Lol :) I would get an incredulous look and a demand to explain myself, followed by "Girl!"

In any case, I am sorry to have butted in here. I am neither Muslim nor Christian. I apologize.

Bye.

Why are you sorry please? I don't think you wrote anything offensive at all. It doesn't matter to me what you are. That's between you and God. As for the subject, interfaith discussion involves questioning and answering what others believe... isn't that what interfaith discussion is for?

Peace and God bless

I did not use the word monk in literal sense, for god's sake. I meant the life of abstinence which he led, and he led it because he was ordered to; it was simply not a matter of spiritual superiority, which you are trying to high light here.

Hello ShahBano,

So you do not believe that Jesus is a very good example to people in his not owning slaves and in his respecting women?

What exactly are you trying to say? Thank you.

Peace and God bless you

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello ShahBano,

So you do not believe that Jesus is a very good example to people in his not owning slaves and in his respecting women?

What exactly are you trying to say? Thank you.

Peace and God bless you

By that logic (that was alluded to earlier) you'd say Jesus wasn't a very good example to people who want to get married and have children (i.e. most of humanity), though I doubt you'd want to be saying that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Titus 2 (NIV)

9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them

Hello Haydar Husayn,

Context is very important. Below is the context:

Titus 2 - http://www.biblegate...202&version=NIV

(I boldened some.)

"You, however, must teach what is appropriate to sound doctrine. 2 Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance.

3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.

6 Similarly, encourage the young men to be self-controlled. 7 In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness 8 and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.

9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, 10 and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.

11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

15 These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you."

Many people who became Christians were slaves. Please note why Paul ordered to teach slaves this, " so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive." Because of this, some masters(slave-owners) began to follow Jesus too!

As for the verses in the Tanakh, it is important to note that Jesus, although fulfilling the prophesies and promises concerning in given to the children of Israel in the Tanakh, goes deeper into the whys of the Law, stressing loving God and loving other people.

Now, if you are a Christian, then you believe God is the author of the Old Testament, and if you are a Trinitarian, then you believe Jesus is God. Therefore Jesus authored the Old Testament, and hence ordered the taking of slaves and generally allowed slavery in Jewish society.

I am indeed a 100% Christian, as well as the Christians such as William Wilberforce, Elizabeth Heyrick, Sojourner Truth, Elijah Lovejoy, and many others who fought against slavery. Jesus did not abrograte the Tanakh, but he did go deeper. Matthew 5 is an example of this, where he talks of lusting in one's heart is having adultery, not just the physical act. While he agrees with the command to not commit adultery, he goes deeper, voiding lust in one's heart as well.

When asked about the most important commandment, Jesus taught a very important lesson, which when one uses logic, one can see that slavery is unacceptable in the eyes of Jesus:

Matthew 22 - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+22&version=NIV

(I boldened some.)

"4 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[Deut. 6:5] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[Lev. 19:18] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”"

About the Tanakh, there is no law in the Tanakh saying that people must have slaves. Jesus, who did not have slaves, taught people to love each other. Enslaving people is not loving them.

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

ChristianLady,

Does the bible promote marriages or not? Why is celibacy so highly valued in your religon (I am reffering to nuns and priests in your religion that take the vow of not getting married). There must be something wrong with your religion when good Christians like you are touting about Jesus (as) lack of spouse and then talking about your own marriage with your husband? Why not be like Jesus and not get married?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Forum Administrators
I am not sure what smiting is so I don't know if he engaged in that or not. Peace and God bless you

There's quite a bit of smiting going on in the OT. e.g. these are just some references:

1 Kings 14:15 For the LORD shall smite Israel, as a reed is shaken in the water, and he shall root up Israel out of this good land, which he gave to their fathers, and shall scatter them beyond the river, because they have made their groves, provoking the LORD to anger.

2 Kings 6:21 And the king of Israel said unto Elisha, when he saw them, My father, shall I smite them? shall I smite them?

2 Kings 6:22 And he answered, Thou shalt not smite them: wouldest thou smite those whom thou hast taken captive with thy sword and with thy bow? set bread and water before them, that they may eat and drink, and go to their master.

http://rapturebooks.co.uk/cgi-sys/bible/bible.cgi

Link to post
Share on other sites

He did not own slaves, fine. he respected women, fine. good for you,. ok

now do not try to make it a matter of spiritual superiority, because it is not. He did what he was ordered to do.

I would repeat my self---His life presented a sliver of the ultimate divine message, not the whole intended message, which was completed with Islam finally.

Edited by ShahBano_BZ
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Hello Haydar Husayn,

Context is very important. Below is the context:

Titus 2 - http://www.biblegate...202&version=NIV

(I boldened some.)

"You, however, must teach what is appropriate to sound doctrine. 2 Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance.

3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.

6 Similarly, encourage the young men to be self-controlled. 7 In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness 8 and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.

9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, 10 and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.

11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

15 These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you."

Many people who became Christians were slaves. Please note why Paul ordered to teach slaves this, " so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive." Because of this, some masters(slave-owners) began to follow Jesus too!

What difference does it make why he said to do it? the fact is he didn't outright condemn slavery, and told Christian slaves to obey their non-Christian masters.

As for the verses in the Tanakh, it is important to note that Jesus, although fulfilling the prophesies and promises concerning in given to the children of Israel in the Tanakh, goes deeper into the whys of the Law, stressing loving God and loving other people.

You have completely missed the point. Read what I wrote again. According to you beliefs, Jesus wrote the Tanakh, and the Tanakh contains some of the stuff I quoted above, so you can't turn around and say Jesus was anti-slavery? Or did he somehow change his mind on the subject sometime before his supposed incarnation?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...