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In the Name of God بسم الله

Hate For Syeds

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Out curiosity, what does the title under your username mean "question me and you'll question your faith". Is it related to what you have in your sig "the truth is with a syed from his syeds"? And I

I'm syed. I still find your post disrespectful and belittling. I agree with macissac. Just because you or I are Syed doesn't make us any more worthy of respect. It should force us to hold ourselves up

"If someone's deeds lowers his position, their pedigree will not elevate it" Imam Ali (as)

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SA

Why is it that this "syed and non syed" thin only arises among indo-paks? Anyone want to clarify to me as to what specifically it is in that culture which unecessarily bloats this non-issue into an issue?

WS

maybe you should be questioning else where? why is it that most people that are not from the blood line of the prophet (saw) (syeds) are unaware of what syeds are? is it lack of knowledge? arrogance? maybe these facts have not reached out there to many as of yet and since syeds are spreading around the world alhumdlillah and increasing in number, people are learning more about who they are now.

again look at it in a positive manner brother, its not negative or bad that you have been made aware of syeds. its for yours and others benefit too.

its not from pak nor from india its from your prophet (saw) i dont think youd like to say anything against the prophet (saw)

thanks

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alialiali: Maybe if you didn't go around trumpeting your Syed-ness then people wouldn't hate Syeds. If people really hate Syeds (which is news to me), then its due to super arrogant dudes like you, going around and expecting everyone to treat you like royalty.

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back to the topic, any syeds here feel they are victimised, discriminated, stereotyped, abused even for being syeds?

Honestly - as is evident to every one else you seem to have a very serious superiority complex.

No - no one feels abused in any way for being syed - not on here and not in real life, unless you count the Nasabi policies through out history of killing syeds - other wise I don't know of any one (for any reason) who abuses or discriminates against syeds.

I think you have a very serious problem with arrogance and superiority and you need to humble your self so that this disease in your soul will not cause you to receive divine punishment.

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I'm a Sayyid but to be honest I've never felt victimised or discriminated against and nor have I ever used my heritage as a lever or method to gain favour.

Someone posted on this forum couple of years ago a scan of an email he sent to a marja asking about respect to modern-day Sayyids and the response was that you should always have respect for the children of Ali (as) and Fatima (SA) regardless of how pious they are or not (if I can find the scan I'll post it up).

The other strange thing is people who don't know assume Sayyids live in some state of luxury by dint of ancestry but this is far removed from the reality as most of the Sayyids I've met are not materially rich.

And I wish people would stop being outright racist by bringing IndoPak into it at every opportunity; if the people in that part of the World have a healthy respect for aal e Nabi (as) then surely that's a deficiency in the regions that don't?

In sunni sect they have "pir/mureed" concept and shamefully some Sayyids have abused that to their own ends but in Shi'ah circles it's simple day-today respect of lineage, nothing more.

The rules of sadaqah are different when applied to Sayyids and maybe they have more obligation to be living examples of ideal conduct amongst others - people are very quick to bring the lineage in to play when it involves a Sayyid stepping out of line I've noticed!

ALI

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I feel the same, Sayyids automatically become elevated in the eyes of others if they abide by the teachings of their Ancestors(as),otherwise demand of respect is like exploitation of this honour.

Bani Israel were given superiority over other nations but the way they deviated from the path of their Ancestors brought them to decline.They were honoured that is fact,but they abused their honour by their disobedience that is fact too.So instead of striving to demand respect we should exalt our characters to the level that people's hearts should bow down in respect automatically,if still someone don't then you can complain about them having grudge.

Personally i have encountered very nice non-syed Shias,nobody hate us for being Syeds.

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Hi, there have been soo many posts and topics on syeds, specially from non syeds complaining and comparing syeds to themselves. It's ashame these kind of non-syeds feel like this towards syeds, now many will reply saying they do not hate syeds they love them, but that infact is the minority, most non-syeds specially the ones from the western world will feel angered and animosity against syeds. All these western values of equality and discrimination run through their hearts and minds, they feel and label syed as a cast system when they know very wel it is not, they call it backwards when they know it has nothing to do with being backwards but a branch of their own religion. They will call it indo pak traditions (again implying it is a cast system).

they do not realise syeds too have feelings and are human too, just because the prophet (saW) of islam has given syeds a special rank,status of respect and conditions, it does not give people, specially non syeds a chance to build hate for syeds.

enemies will remain on this earth, haters of maula (saw) and their sons, there will be people who will use religion for their own advantages.

i have just posted this to highlight, people do cause a great deal of pain to syeds from what they say/judge and this does effect many syeds. I know of many syeds who have been victims of hate purely for being syeds from shia brethrins, im sure many syeds on this site will know where i am comming from and it would be great to hear from you if you have been a target due to beind syed. It also goes out to syeds too who treat non-syeds at a lower level, this is incorrect and also needs attention as this causes pains to non-syeds. This hate is contagious .

I am not posting this topic to begin a syed and non-syed debate but to state that syeds too are effected by what the non syed world says about them.

thank you

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you guys are speaking out for all syeds all over the UK and the world,, im astonished how the knowledgable ones or even the admins on this site feel these kinds of people who are jealous who stereotype syeds for being arrogant/bad, who deny the respect and hold ill feelings towards syeds are non-existant,,. or they exist but pose no issues towards syeds? You admit there exist ones that respect syeds? and deny theres non that exst here that disrespect syeds amongst the muslims? i dont need to conclude to this as it speaks for it self.

look at some of your replies,, syeds think they are the best, superior, kings, these are the people that we are talking about, dont be so quik jumping to conclusions, ive not demanded respect or anything of the sort from you, rather ive educated you of what islam says about syeds. Most of you deny accepting this indirectly.

for some of you , great replies, i appreciate it, there is no doubt theres people who feel this way towards syeds, who spread rumours and misconceptions. who disrespect syeds un/knowingly. but some of the replies that have been recieved are full of animosity towards syeds, so this entire topic is a great example of what shias feel about syeds on here.

Lets set aside your personal judgmental views of me that you know nothing about and stick to the topic please.

again i hope this hasn't put off syeds on this site to come forward, i apologise if this has.

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Assalam o Alykum. My brother first of all the respect of a person before Allah is not because of being born a syed or non syed, but because of Taqva. Another thing that a non syed can become the member of Ahlul Bait because of his piety(like Sulaiman e farsi), a member of Bani Umayya become dear to Imam as Sadiq a.s because of his piety(Saad Bukhair), a syed become rejected by Imam s.a of his age because if fisq o fujoor and gets the title of kazzab(jaffar kazzab). Its very simple. Syeds dont have any superiority over non syeds. And pious person no matter syed or non syed gets respect by the grace of Allah anywhere on the earth. Nobody hates or discriminates about syeds. Rather many non deserving syeds get respect which they shouldnt have. and many deserving non syeds dont get the respect they should have.
Edited by alialiali
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(salam)

As a syed you should never 'expect' or 'demand' respect. If you get it then masha'Allah at the person, who is just respecting the prophets (sawa) blood. No more no less. It's not complicated nor is it a real issue.

Respect for the prophet's (sawa) blood is all it should be. Syed's aren't superior automatically in aamal or anything, that's ridiculous. I've never encountered hate if i'm honest.

My uncle encountered syed hating in syria but that's obvious as to why. So alialiali i don't really know what you are talking about in all honesty. Let's stop over-complicating Islam at every opportunity..

Move on.

i'm gonna kiss your hand twice now :wub:

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get over it kid -.- syed or no syed , have manners or dont expect any respect , end of discussion

sadaqa is known to haram for syeds not due to THEIR higher status but to their grandfather - our prophet-

this topic is for syeds to speak of their experiences or people who know of this kind of occurance, thats it, then you have al these people flooding ths topic crying about how arrogant syeds are, im just going to ignore all these questions as its ust going in circles.

thanks people

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Hi, there have been soo many posts and topics on syeds, specially from non syeds complaining and comparing syeds to themselves. It's ashame these kind of non-syeds feel like this towards syeds, now many will reply saying they do not hate syeds they love them, but that infact is the minority, most non-syeds specially the ones from the western world will feel angered and animosity against syeds. All these western values of equality and discrimination run through their hearts and minds, they feel and label syed as a cast system when they know very wel it is not, they call it backwards when they know it has nothing to do with being backwards but a branch of their own religion. They will call it indo pak traditions (again implying it is a cast system).

they do not realise syeds too have feelings and are human too, just because the prophet (saW) of islam has given syeds a special rank,status of respect and conditions, it does not give people, specially non syeds a chance to build hate for syeds.

enemies will remain on this earth, haters of maula (saw) and their sons, there will be people who will use religion for their own advantages.

i have just posted this to highlight, people do cause a great deal of pain to syeds from what they say/judge and this does effect many syeds. I know of many syeds who have been victims of hate purely for being syeds from shia brethrins, im sure many syeds on this site will know where i am comming from and it would be great to hear from you if you have been a target due to beind syed. It also goes out to syeds too who treat non-syeds at a lower level, this is incorrect and also needs attention as this causes pains to non-syeds. This hate is contagious .

I am not posting this topic to begin a syed and non-syed debate but to state that syeds too are effected by what the non syed world says about them.

thank you

(salam) (bismillah)

I sincerely apologize on behalf of non-syeds if they have mistreated you in anyway however I would like to challenge a few of your points which I have bolded.

1) Equality is not an exclusively western value, it should be universal.

2) Calling yourself special because of your bloodline will not help you get sympathy from non-syeds.

3) I am sure you are not Imam Ali's son.

Unfortunately in opening this thread you have— though not on purpose— created a separation in which one party is claiming to be oppressed by another, never a good idea if you are seeking peaceful discussion. The Jewish people in the state of Israel make similar claims to you as they claim to be chosen by YWH as the people of Israel and also claim to be oppressed, although it is evident that Israel is not even close to the "oppressed" nation they claim to be. Now I am in no way equating you to the state of Israel, however I am drawing parallels where I feel they should be drawn so I can really hit my point home. I think it is evident that it will get people enraged when you claim you are both superior to them and at the same time oppressed by them. If we create differences in ranking among the Shias based on their race or forefathers we are creating cast systems which have been defined by wisegeek.com as: "a social structure that divides people on the basis of an inherited social status."

Edited by ShiaSoldier@2007
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(salam) (bismillah)

I sincerely apologize on behalf of non-syeds if they have mistreated you in anyway however I would like to challenge a few of your points which I have bolded.

1) Equality is not an exclusively western value, it should be universal.

2) Calling yourself special because of your bloodline will not help you get sympathy from non-syeds.

3) I am sure you are not Imam Ali's son.

Unfortunately in opening this thread you have— though not on purpose— created a separation in which one party is claiming to be oppressed by another, never a good idea if you are seeking peaceful discussion. The Jewish people in the state of Israel make similar claims to you as they claim to be chosen by YWH as the people of Israel and also claim to be oppressed, although it is evident that Israel is not even close to the "oppressed" nation they claim to be. Now I am in no way equating you to the state of Israel, however I am drawing parallels where I feel they should be drawn so I can really hit my point home. I think it is evident that it will get people enraged when you claim you are both superior to them and at the same time oppressed by them. If we create differences in ranking among the Shias based on their race or forefathers we are creating cast systems which have been defined by wisegeek.com as: "a social structure that divides people on the basis of an inherited social status."

thank you brother for your reply

i appreciate and enjoyed your response, the western morals, values and rights of individuals do differ from values and equities that islam brings for the people. As you know everyone will be tested on their own level, so will there be divisions and sects amongst many religions, within each religion there shall be a people who follow and will stand by the prevailing truth. Our definintion of equality is higher then any equality, higher then any values set by religions or a society for the living or the dead. So do our morals and respects (taught by the imams (saw) tower above any other. It's not about any given defined equality being universal, its about the true (from the truth (saw) kind of values and equalities, being shared and spread over the hearts of the world.

what would i achieve or gain from begging others for sympathy or to respect me? does a begger not hold up his hands and lower his gaze out of humility? does he feel he has gained respect? or does he feel embarrassed and hence the reason he looks down? i am not demanding or begging for you respect. I have not provided any references of hadiths but 1 (as you know theres many)in an earliar reply as the lady was being quite offensive, I am not debating as debates are normally not for Allah (swt) but for personal gains and fulfilments by the use of religion.I have simply introduced to you the syeds point of view, the flip side of the coin that you never hear about.

my father will call me his son, you speak to my father and tell him i am not his son? i think he wouldn't be too happy (then again lol he'd celebrate lol),, if you type to me saying my father is not my father? that would be very offensive, admins from this site may even ban you from typing that,, you can then, speak to my grandFATHER and tell him i am not his son? he again will tell you, you are wrong. Speak to my great great grand FATHER tell him i am not his son and you will have the same reply that i am truely his son, his flesh, his face, his blood, speak to my fathers to how far you want to go, 500,800 years back, they all will tell you i am their son,, imam Ali (saw) can hear you and they (saw) know what you type, ask maula (saw) there is a syed who is from your (saw) blood and your sons? but you personally dont believe he is your (saw) son or you (saw) are not his father, i wonder what reply you'd get? i dont know who maula (saw) is and what their beautiful (saw) reply would be. but i hope it would be in your favour and not in any of maulas (saw) sons.... As what you claim is a stage a ground of a father sons right, and part of a shias existence is justice.

there have been many examples of this within our lineage of non syeds who didnt believe and they became believers such as traditons from great,,,,,,,,,, grandfather hz jiludeen bukhari lal posht ra.

opening of this thread has been interesting and i have had many replies and the answers to my questions are engraved in the questions all written through out the thread, so this is why i no longer need to reply, i know many humble syeds will avoid voicing out purely to keep away from brewing a storm.

thanks again, i do apologise to you guys as my intentions were not to cause any kinds of frictions and battles,,

shahs

Edited by alialiali
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  • 4 weeks later...
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(salam) (bismillah)

Equality has one set definition, the definition of equity may differ based on culture, religion etc but not the definition of equality.

Regarding your signature "The truth is with a syed from his syeds", don't you think that is a little overboard? Flaunting your status as a syed does not do you any good. The respect you earn is because your forefathers were great people who protected the religion of Islam with their lives. As for my forefathers, they could have been: Kings, Monks, farmers, or they could even be descendants of Hazrat Fatima (as); the fact that no one will know or cares to know just goes to show how insignificant such a relation is to my status. There is no anatomical or physiological difference between the both of us, we both came into being and we will both die one day.

I would also like to add that you are not Imam Ali's (as) son, you are the son of his son of his son etc... That is like saying I am the son of a prophet, I am actually the son of a son of a son of a son of a prophet etc.. So long as you continue to be this pretentious, you will only cause hate to spew from others. Those who are humble about not only their lineage— which makes no difference— but also their deeds, are worth respecting. If one finds it necessary to point out that they are syed to every person they meet, it shows that they are not confident in their deeds and must resort to that of their forefather's to earn the respect of others.

Respect is something you must earn, not something you can inherit.

Edited by ShiaSoldier@2007
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All these western values of equality and discrimination run through their hearts and minds

What exactly are you implying in that phrase? Is it that because of these Western values, Syeds are being discriminated against our own non-Syeds?

I do admire non-Syeds very much as my non-Syed friends use to lecture me back in grade 10 if I was misbehaving in high school. It was usually like 'Shame on you, honor your ancestors bro and do not do anything stupid'

(The misbehaving I am saying is the typical stuff a student in high school does :P )

So my non-Syed friends have been the first to correct me and quote our scholars, rather than mistreating me in any shape of form.

I have unfortunately come across many disgraceful Syeds who sin a lot and actually think that their blood and being is superior than others. If someone mistreats them, I will never have a problem with that. This notion is similar to what the Cohens do in Judaism.

Just curious, I heard jaffery syeds are rare, is that correct? So does anybody has a clue or any data/ info in what percentage of syeds are of which or among whose immat linage?

Half of my cousins are Jafri, so I have come across many Jafris lol

I cannot give you the percentage but they are out there in big numbers

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I don't believe in syeds/non-syeds. I believe in Ahl al Bayt عليه السلام.. I'm not convinced that the khums/zakaat requirements apply to other than the Ahl al Bayt (a) either.

Interesting comparison, Shiahsoldier@2007

Well Khums is granted for Sadaat till the day of judgement and sadqa is made haram till the day of judgement too.

Ask any Alim,inshAllah he will give you countless proofs and narrations for that.

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  • 1 year later...
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                                                                                     (bismillah)

                                                                                      (salam)

 

 

I hate it when this happens. I am a Sayyed. For the sake of Allah do not bring up topics which cause controversy. I take a middle position. Firstly, a Sayyed is classified a real Sayyed according to his deeds and piety. The Qur'an says :

 

O you men! surely We have created you of a male and a female, and made you tribes and families that you may know each other; surely the most honorable of you with Allah is the one among you most careful (of his duty); surely Allah is Knowing, Aware. Surah Al-Hujurat 

 

 

A message for Sayyeds 

--------------------------------

(salam)

 

Remember that Ja'far Al-Tawwab was also a Sayyed like us, however he initially denied the Imamate of his brother and attained the title of Al-Kadhab before repenting. This should serve as a lesson to you. If you are of the children of Imam Ali (as)  and Sayyeda Zahra  (as) then you have to act in a manner which is suitable for that honor. Do not forget that the son of Noah  (as)  was denied his relationship with his father due to his actions, don't perform such actions on which Rasoolallah  (pbuh)  will deny his relationship with you on the Day of Resurrection. 

--------------------------------

 

A message to the one who started the thread

 

I know plenty of non-Sayyeds who respect Sayyeds who are pious. They love the Sayyeds for their love of Ahlul Bayt  (as) . However, I have noticed some rhetoric which I find offensive. What is meant by such questions like 'I wonder how many Sayyeds can actually prove their lineage' or 'I wonder how many claimants would be shocked to realize their ancestors were actually converted Hindus without a trace of the Banu Hashim in them...'. 

 

Though I agree with the fact that there are fake Sayyeds, I do not agree with this rhetoric. I'm sorry but what has that got to do with the topic which is Sayyed hate ? Only the other day, a brother who saw my passport told me to remove the title Sayyed from my name and get off my high horse!. Both parties keep your emotions under control and live and let live and once again please stop posting on these topics as they are offensive to many, Sayyeds and Non-Sayyeds.

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  • 9 months later...

Hahaha this is all hilarious please stop talking about sayyids your giving us a bad name, a real sayyid does not consider himself better because of his lineage. Also Truth is with the imaams not every person who is a descendant. If you are a sayyid and you think yourself better than others than please just slap yourself, the prophet would be ashamed if he saw what atrocities people do while calling themselves sayyid.

 

But truth be told a sayyid has more to fear than anyone so it is actually a burden because our sins will be charged double since our sinning would be an insult to the prophet and of course we would be disobeying Allah, so those sayyids who fear Allah have more to fear, that's all.

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There are mo'min syeds and mo'min non syeds. There are more pious syeds than non syed, and also more pious non syed than syed. There also munafiq syeds and non syeds.

One should be respectful to everybody equally.

For example, if one is having a very bad day sand is going to act horribly to somebody it would be better if it was a non syed than a syed, because that person is blood related to an Imam.

It doesn't have much to do with the person itself as much as it has to do with who the person is related to, in this case the Holy Imam.

For example, if you were in the time of an Imam and the Imam had a blood relative that had gone astray and was harassing you.

You shouldn't curse this person for respect solely for the Imam.

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Bro, this has nothing to do with respect, being better Muslims or going to paradise without any visa or entry! Sayeds do not take zakah and that makes them better human being? A drunk, sinner and 100s of other crimes nowadays these so called Sayeds commit actually make them any better than a pious non-Sayed?

he just forwarded the saying and didnt say not taking the zakkah makes syed a better muslim,so causing the fuss???

alialiali: Maybe if you didn't go around trumpeting your Syed-ness then people wouldn't hate Syeds. If people really hate Syeds (which is news to me), then its due to super arrogant dudes like you, going around and expecting everyone to treat you like royalty.

Nice....btw I am Jafferi Syed by all i believe is what you do in this world and your amaal is most important and being a Syed if you are then try to be a better muslim 1st and control your tongue and action that harms your ancestory and their Name(as)

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Hello,

 

Actually, anyone with any Arabic ancestry can reasonably claim to meet the definition of sayyid, a descendant of Muhammad  (pbuh) through Hasan (pbuh)  and Husayn  (pbuh) It is not a very rare thing.

 

For instance, lets assume, on average, each male descendant of Hasan  (pbuh) and Husayn  (pbuh) had two sons.  Second, lets round down and say they lived 50 generations ago.

 

Now, grab your calculator, enter "2" (number of sons), then "y^x" (exponential growth), then "50" (number of generations), "equals."  What number do you get?  A huge number right?  Divide that by 10 or even 20 as a "safety factor."  Still a huge number.

 

It is the power of exponential growth.  And, it mathematically proves that any male with Arabic ancestry, from Morocco to Bangladesh is sayyid.

 

Please do not bother me with any man made validation processes.  I could care less.  The bottom line is, math does not lie.

 

All the Best,

David

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That is exactly how the Abbasid's got into power.

They said they are syed and that are ahlulbayt after, so the cousin of the Holy Imam (as) said they are Ahlulbayt aswell. Please don't make this mistake. Abbasid's being from the decendants of Abbas ibn Abd al-Muttalib. Who with the help of Imam's and fought for there name saying the khalifat belongs to Ahlulbayt, when they got it they said we to are the ahlulbayt. A Syed is from the Line of bibi Fatimah (as) and Imam Ameral Mumineen (as). So don't be calling people like abu Lahab a Syed.

Please don't.

Thanks

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