Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Ali J

Why Is Slavery Permissible In Islam?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

That Syrian girl? Seems to me she had bigger issues...

True....with her pan arab rhetoric I almost wonder if she is HIggen's sister (if he weren't really indian). But I think that was her tipping point (slavery).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Islam didn't invent slavery. Mushriks and pagans of Arabia used to have slaves. Most of the countries in the middle east used to belong to slave-owing culture. Do you remember the story of Prophet Yusuf (as) who was sold as a slave to an Egyptian master?

Slavery pre-dates Islam. Some people have issues because Islam didn't outlaw slavery like it did with other pagan practices. That's one sided argument. You should also consider all the things that Islam did to encourage slave owners to treat their subjects as humanly as possible. At least that is something you should gives some credit to Islam.

im not saying islam invented it but it seems leik it allows it. thats not something i agree with or can except. i cant just look at the good things for islam, u have to except everything for it. and now some shiachat members r actualy showing me verses that says it is ok to have slaves. this isnt something i can except. to me slavery is 100% wrong.

shia debater i did read it but it doesnt realy change my opinion. i mean ask yourself who would u belive about something in islam, a random book or the Quran?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

for me the practical example, the real life of Divine Family of Prophet (pbuh) provide more easy to understand or to follow depiction of Quran; and if there lives are full of slaves acquisition, usage and disposal, than I really do not know where to belong .

well yeah that too. i always thought the slaves were freed when bought or captured back then. i just cant any which way agree with a human owning another human which is why its realy got me thinking now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can this post be deleted please - I was giving information on a topic I didn't have knowledge on and I am afraid that I have given wrong information

its not the same aws worker. a worker gets paid and can leave whenever they want for another job. also if u r gradualy trying to get rid of slavery completely wouldnt u start with yourself? it just doesnt add up.

Edited by Haji 2003

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

God has made it incumbent upon Muslims to help the slaves in getting liberated. When a slave wants to get himself freed, the master has not only to agree to it, but he is also directed to help the slave from his own wealth,[11] the only provision being the satisfaction to the effect that the slave would live a respectable life after earning his freedom.

Imam 'Ali emancipated one thousand slaves, purchasing them from his own money.[16]

The same was the number of the slaves emancipated by the seventh Imam Musa al-Kazim.

The fourth Imam, 'Ali bin al-Husayn, used to emancipate every slave in his household on the eve of 'Idd (the annual celebration of Muslims).

It is important to note that in all the above cases, the freed slaves were provided with sufficient means to earn their livelihood respectably.

Prophet (pbuh) treating his slave and his daughter equally (both as if they were his daughter)

Brother, as you can see all the information is in that chapter I presented earlier. Also the Prophet (pbuh) and Imams (as) would treat the slaves like their own family members. The Prophet (pbuh) asked Lady Fidha (ra) and Lady Fatima (sa) to go to him, he said one day Lady Fatima (sa) will rest and Lady Fidha (ra) will work, and one day Lady Fidha (ra) will rest and Lady Fatima (sa) would work.

(this isn't from the book its from what I heard in a lecture - lady Fidha (ra) was his 'slave')

Another example

Imam Ali giving expensive dress to his slave and wearing coarse dress himself

It is also recorded that once 'Ali and his male servant Qambar went to a shop where 'Ali selected two garments, one a cheap coarse dress, the other expensive. He gave the expensive garment to Qambar. Qambar was shocked. "Oh Master!", he said, "This is the better one and you are the ruler of the Muslims. You should take this one." 'Ali replied, "No, Qambar, you are young and young man should wear better clothes."

Amount of work of the 'slave'

Masters were forbidden to exact more work than was just and proper.

What the 'slaves' were called

They were ordered never to address their male or female slaves by the degrading appellation, but by the more affectionate name of "my young man', or "my young maid";

Treatment of the 'slaves'

it was also enjoined that all slaves should be dressed, clothed and fed exactly as their masters and mistresses did. It was also ordered that in no case should the mother be separated from her child, nor brother from brother, nor father from son, nor husband from wife, nor one relative from another.

A Companion of the Prophet (pbuh) and his slave

The Holy Prophet gifted aslave to Abu Dharr al-Ghifari and told him to maintain him in the best way, to feed him whatever he himself ate, to clothe him with whatever clothes he liked for himself. Abu Dharr had a robe which he immediately tore into two, and gave one piece to the slave. The Prophet said, "Excellent!" Abu Dharr took the slave home and liberated him. The Prophet was highly pleased with Abu Dharr and said, "God will reward you for it."

Now lets look at what some western writers say

Mouradgea d'Ohsson (a main source of information for the Western writers on the Ottoman empire) declared:

"There is perhaps no nation where the captives, the slaves, the very toilers in the galleys are better provided for or treated with more kindness than among the Muhammedans." [22]

P. L Riviere writes:

"A master was enjoined to make his slave share the bounties he received from God. It must be recognised that, in this respect, the Islamic teaching acknowledged such a respect for human personality and showed a sense of equality which is searched for in vain in ancient civilization"

[23]

Napoleon Bonaparte is recorded as saying about the condition of slaves in Muslim countries:

"The slave inherits his master's property and marries his daughter. The majority of the Pashas had been slaves. Many of the grand viziers, all the Mamelukes, Ali Ben Mourad Beg, had been slaves. They began their lives by performing the most menial services in the houses of their masters and were subsequently raised in status for their merit or by favour. In the West, on the contrary, the slave has always been below the position of the domestic servants; he occupies the lowest rug. The Romans emancipated their slaves, but the emancipated were never considered as equal to the free-born. The ideas of the East and West are so different that it took a long time to make the Egyptians understand that all the army was not composed of slaves belonging to the Sultan al-Kabir."

[25]


Brother, in all honesty, does this sound like slavery to you??

Remember, the Qur'an doesn't mention the word "slave" for this, or not that I've seen anyway. It refers to "that which your right hand possesses" so that means the translation isn't necessarily slave (unless im mistaken)

actualy yeah it does. it sounds leik beter treatment of a slave but stil ownershop of a human. just the fact that u can free them means u own them. it doesnt matter how u treat them, they r stil your slave and i disagree with it. i didnt realize that this had happened but now that i do its realy a shock to me.

Ali Saleh,

would you tell me what you are thinking, because I have no one to ask for advice or some insight; who would I ask anyways, ---a free-thinker father who does not believe in any discrimination or double standards regarding, race, gender, religion, social status; who already told me I am in for disillusionment.

rihgt now im just still in a state of shock trying to take all of this in. i dont agree with slavery and dont want to be connected with it or its approval in any way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually answered this question before that you cannot use limited examples of the pious people among the family of Muhammad (pbuh) to promote slavery. The Ahl al-Bayt were exceptionally and they are exception to the rule.

If there was nothing wrong with owning slaves, the Prophet would not recommend people to free slaves as much as they can and as often as they can.

This argument gets used a lot around here in relation to aspects of Islam that some people find unpalatable, such as slavery or polygamy. However, it has a major flaw, which is that the Qur'an, the Prophet (pbuh), and the Imams (as) all gave directions on how to treat slaves. It wasn't just a case of it was ok for the Imams (as) to have slaves, but nobody else. Their followers had slaves too, and the Imams (as) found that perfectly normal. As an example:

6 – And from him from Ahmad from his father from `Abdullah b. al-Mughira from Abu 'l-Hasan عليه السلام its like. And he added in it: So Muhammad b. `Ubayd said: May I be your ransom, so I do not have a family. So he said: Do you not have slave girls (jawari) - or he said – ummahat awlad (mothers of children, meaning slave women who have born their masters children)? He said: Of course. He said: So then you are not a bachelor.

Anyway, considering that the Imams (as) only had a small number of followers, unlike the Prophet (pbuh) and Imam Ali (as) who had to rule over all the Muslims, the Imams (as) could have easily done without slaves and recommended their followers not to take slaves. Why didn't they do this? Why instead do we find that the Imams (as) often kept a large number of slave girls?

Something isn't adding up in this theory about the Imams (as) being secret abolitionists.

I used to lurk this forum for a few years on and off before joining.....and I remember one member on here leaving Islam because of the pro slavery crew. I can't remember the details but they actually convinced her she was anti Islam because she didn't believe in owning slaves. I think you know who I am talking about (the one who became an apostate over this)

Shall I then seek a judge other than Allah? And He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) made plain; and those whom We have given the Book know that it is revealed by your Lord with truth, therefore you should not be of the disputers. And the word of your Lord has been accomplished truly and justly; there is none who can change His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing. And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from Allah's way; they follow but conjecture and they only lie. Surely your Lord-- He best knows who goes astray from His way, and He best knows those who follow the right course. [Qur'an 6:114-117, Shakir]

And We did not send any messenger but with the language of his people, so that he might explain to them clearly; then Allah makes whom He pleases err and He guides whom He pleases and He is the Mighty, the Wise. [14:4]

And say: The truth is from your Lord, so let him who please believe, and let him who please disbelieve; surely We have prepared for the iniquitous a fire, the curtains of which shall encompass them about; and if they cry for water, they shall be given water like molten brass which will scald their faces; evil the drink and ill the resting-place. [18:29]

Have you then considered him who takes his low desire for his god, and Allah has made him err having knowledge and has set a seal upon his ear and his heart and put a covering upon his eye. Who can then guide him after Allah? Will you not then be mindful? [45:23]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

actualy yeah it does. it sounds leik beter treatment of a slave but stil ownershop of a human. just the fact that u can free them means u own them. it doesnt matter how u treat them, they r stil your slave and i disagree with it. i didnt realize that this had happened but now that i do its realy a shock to me.

rihgt now im just still in a state of shock trying to take all of this in. i dont agree with slavery and dont want to be connected with it or its approval in any way.

You should begin by questioning why you believe this in the first place? You've taken the idea of all slavery being evil and wrong as an absolute, and so since Islam doesn't uphold that you consider rejecting Islam (while your approach should be the reverse, what God says is absolute, and our morals and beliefs have to fall in line with that or be revised or rejected). So why is then that it is inherently evil for it to be so? Can you coherently and rationally answer that without recourse to your emotional reaction?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The lad needs to have an arm put around him and have the concept explained to him nicely and in a palatable manner (edited). He's believed all forms of slavery are wrong all his life, so of course it's going to come as a shock to him.

This hardline approach that I'm seeing (i.e. this 'you're not a true Muslim if you question slavery' approach) will just alienate him further and as it can be seen, we are at risk of someone leaving the religion because of this.

Edited by Haji 2003

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The lad needs to have an arm put around him and have the concept explained to him nicely and in a palatable manner (like SD is trying to do). He's believed all forms of slavery are wrong all his life, so of course it's going to come as a shock to him.

This hardline approach that I'm seeing (i.e. this 'you're not a true Muslim if you question slavery' approach) will just alienate him further and as it can be seen, we are at risk of someone leaving the religion because of this.

The problem is he is so dead set against any form of slavery, even the heavily sugar-coated version presented in the book SD is quoting from, that there is no way to get through to him that way.

Haydar Husayn do you ever wonder if you are wrong?

If someone proves to me that I'm wrong about something using Islamic sources, then I'm ready to change my view in a second. This has happened before on these forums.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should begin by questioning why you believe this in the first place? You've taken the idea of all slavery being evil and wrong as an absolute, and so since Islam doesn't uphold that you consider rejecting Islam (while your approach should be the reverse, what God says is absolute, and our morals and beliefs have to fall in line with that or be revised or rejected). So why is then that it is inherently evil for it to be so? Can you coherently and rationally answer that without recourse to your emotional reaction?

humans r all free, no human owns another one and that IS absolute. to me all slavery is wrong. to belive what God says is absolute only comes after u belive in God but its hard to do so if it says something that by all strech of the imagination is wrong. u cant force it after seeing something that u belive is 100% wrong. i cant except this in any way, slavery should not exist in my opinion becuz we r all born free and slavery is manmade and in some ways to me is worse than killing. i can never except it even if it means denying things i belived before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

humans r all free, no human owns another one and that IS absolute.

Are humans in prison being punished for some crime free? If no, then not all humans are free or even meant to be free, so freedom is thus not an absolute. What about parents having authority over their children? Are the children free to leave the house whenever they want and do as they please with no consequences? And why do they have such an authority over them, an authority they have had since the child was born and so the child had no say or choice in it either?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

humans r all free, no human owns another one and that IS absolute. to me all slavery is wrong. to belive what God says is absolute only comes after u belive in God but its hard to do so if it says something that by all strech of the imagination is wrong. u cant force it after seeing something that u belive is 100% wrong. i cant except this in any way, slavery should not exist in my opinion becuz we r all born free and slavery is manmade and in some ways to me is worse than killing. i can never except it even if it means denying things i belived before.

Funny how few people seemed to realise it was absolutely wrong by any stretch of the imagination until the last few hundred years of human civilisation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

your not born free though?

The sermon of Ghadeer.. The Prophet has more rights over us than we do ourselves. This is a fiqhi issue, you need to go back and re-evaluate your beliefs, work out which God you believe in, what His current revealed religion is, who His messengers are, and what do the religion and messenger say regarding this issue. If you accept God as He is to be accepted and the religion and its messengers as they are to be accepted, then digesting this may become easier. Unless you accept that the religion/prophet and God you have accepted know more about human nature and what is absolute or not, you won't solve this issue, not in Islam at least.

Also for those pushing the Islam tried to abolish this act, do any of the Imams (esp amongst the latter ones) say that Slavery should no longer exist? Them making the conditions better is something completely different to abolishing it. Where do you derive that Islam was against it. Is it even 'makruh' to own a slave? can we prove even that much?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are humans in prison being punished for some crime free? If no, then not all humans are free or even meant to be free, so freedom is thus not an absolute. What about parents having authority over their children? Are the children free to leave the house whenever they want and do as they please with no consequences? And why do they have such an authority over them, an authority they have had since the child was born and so the child had no say or choice in it either?

I think what he is picturing is when some random boy or girl is kidnapped for no reason and sold into slavery, or the movie roots, etc. etc. I mean common wouldn't that just suck to high heaven if you were abducted and made a slave when you had known freedom your entire life? So that is the picture that most of us including myself think of when hearing the word slave.

However if I committed some crime I would rather work on a farm than sit in a prison cell all day....I guess that is a form of slavery. One thing though as a woman I could never come to terms with is being a sex slave uffffff :sick: (men need not reply to this statement because you wouldn't understand). I assume in a situation like that I would try to escape and go as far away as possible.

Edited by ImAli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Human dignity is only through servanthood (being a slave) to God. Otherwise it is less than a mirage.

being servant to God, yes

but not being slave to people. what about the idea of purity and chastity of a woman. being raped damns the soul of a woman forever. is there no concept of sympathy for a woman who is kept slave. her honor or chastity does not matter ?

Edited by ShahBano_BZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

guys thanks for your posts but so far while many of u have said why i should be ok with slavery or how its reformed i havent heard anyone say that it is not alowed. i think i am probablky done with this topic and other things as well as this reached a point where it clashed with what i think is rihgt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

guys thanks for your posts but so far while many of u have said why i should be ok with slavery or how its reformed i havent heard anyone say that it is not alowed. i think i am probablky done with this topic and other things as well as this reached a point where it clashed with what i think is rihgt.

I understand. :cry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

being servant to God, yes

but not being slave to people. what about the idea of purity and chastity of a woman. being raped damns the soul of a woman forever.

Who is speaking of rape, a crime punishable by having your neck stuck by a sword? If it is because Islam grants conjugal rights to the slave owner, then one might claim the conjugal rights of marriage are rape as well.

I'm sensing that you've allowed whatever it was you've seen earlier in your life entirely shape what it is we're talking about here (as some others have allowed Hollywood movies about the pre-civil war Southern states to shape theirs). It's important to divorce yourself from those images (some of which may represent grave injustices) when discussing what it is that Islam itself is actually talking about. It'd be a bit like seeing some very bad marriages and then concluding marriage itself is inherently evil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who is speaking of rape, a crime punishable by having your neck stuck by a sword? If it is because Islam grants conjugal rights to the slave owner, then one might claim the conjugal rights of marriage are rape as well.

I imagine in a marriage both sides are willing and enthusiastic about conjugal rights. However I can't imagine a slave would be enthusiastic about this arrangement.....most likely the slave would feel violated and dehumanized the same as if they were raped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i did not say this, i never even knew this that it was allowed to have sex with slave-girls. i read it in some one's post yesterday. I never even thought that rape will be permissible by God.

What is sex with a slave girl , if not rape ? a honeymoon in south of france ?

do you think any slave girl would like it. i have seen girls grounding their glass bangles and swallowing them to die so as to be protected from the forced sex by their master, or drinking kerosene oil. do you think a 15 years old girl immolates herself so she won't be used by her master is a joke. I have seen her dead body, you have not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i did not say this, i never even knew this that it was allowed to have sex with slave-girls. i read it in some one's post yesterday. I never even thought that rape will be permissible by God.

What is sex with a slave girl , if not rape ? a honeymoon in south of france ?

do you think any slave girl would like it. i have seen girls grounding their glass bangles and swallowing them to die so as to be protected from the forced sex by their master, or drinking kerosene oil. do you think a 15 years old girl immolates herself so she won't be used by her master is a joke. I have seen her dead body, you have not.

Of course she would feel violated. We are human after all. Human have feelings and physical limitation. Non-consentual or forced sex is disgusting. No sane person should force themselves on another.

But you have practical knowledge of the evils of slavery. Those people who you are arguing doesn't. To them, it is just a fantasy. It's a shame we cannot let pro-slavery crowd volunteer themselves as slaves. That would be a real eye opening experience.

Edited by Gypsy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's incredible to me how many people's faith rests on the laws of God according with their own desires. It would be interesting to know why such people believe in God and Islam in the first place. Is it just because they were born into the religion?

Before worrying about issues such as slavery, people need to go back to the basics and ask themselves why they believe in God, and why they believe Islam is God's religion. To only be a Muslim because what you know of Islam seems to conform with your preconceived views is very dangerous, and will most likely lead to disappointment. If on the other hand a person has real faith in Islam (which is what religion is supposed to be about after all), then that person will not be bothered by a few aspects that they don't understand or that seem to go against what they have been brought up to believe. What happened to trusting in the judgement of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì? Do people imagine that it is not possible that there may be some things they are incapable of understanding, but that serve a purpose?

Of course she would feel violated. We are human after all. Human have feelings and physical limitation. Non-consentual or forced sex is disgusting. No sane person should force themselves on another.

But you have practical knowledge of the evils of slavery. Those people who you are arguing doesn't. To them, it is just a fantasy. It's a shame we cannot let pro-slavery crowd volunteer themselves as slaves. That would be a real eye opening experience.

Do you see anyone here arguing that being a slave is fun?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(as some others have allowed Hollywood movies about the pre-civil war Southern states to shape theirs).

There's more truth in this than you may imagine.

And it is not just slavery, but nearly everything we discuss is influenced by basic assumptions people have picked up from a variety of media.

For example, particularly poisonous for corrupting peoples' understanding of male/female relations is the corpus of 19th century European literature. Anna Karenina, Madam Bovary and Tess (amongst others) have a lot to answer for.

To them, it is just a fantasy. It's a shame we cannot let pro-slavery crowd volunteer themselves as slaves. That would be a real eye opening experience.

No not some fantasy, but frighteningly real. The following is about Greece and its just had a relatively short, not very severe shock and the Church and other institutions seem just about able to cope.

But note what people will do when they are desperate. And please no one imagine that you could never be in such a position yourself. I don't. Protection from this is what prayers are for.

One morning a few weeks before Christmas a kindergarten teacher in Athens found a note about one of her four-year-old pupils. "I will not be coming to pick up Anna today because I cannot afford to look after her," it read. "Please take good care of her. Sorry. Her mother."

Requests of this kind were not unknown before the crisis - but Father Antonios has never until now come across children being simply abandoned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16472310 Edited by Haji 2003

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's incredible to me how many people's faith rests on the laws of God according with their own desires. It would be interesting to know why such people believe in God and Islam in the first place. Is it just because they were born into the religion?

Before worrying about issues such as slavery, people need to go back to the basics and ask themselves why they believe in God, and why they believe Islam is God's religion. To only be a Muslim because what you know of Islam seems to conform with your preconceived views is very dangerous, and will most likely lead to disappointment. If on the other hand a person has real faith in Islam (which is what religion is supposed to be about after all), then that person will not be bothered by a few aspects that they don't understand or that seem to go against what they have been brought up to believe. What happened to trusting in the judgement of Allah سبحانه وتعالى? Do people imagine that it is not possible that there may be some things they are incapable of understanding, but that serve a purpose?

Do you see anyone here arguing that being a slave is fun?

We are not talking about doubts because we don't want to pray on time or think it would be more fun to smoke drugs and drink whiskey. We are talking about doubts because of slavery.....slavery is not a small aspect as you are trying to make it seem.

Edited by ImAli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's incredible to me how many people's faith rests on the laws of God according with their own desires. It would be interesting to know why such people believe in God and Islam in the first place. Is it just because they were born into the religion?

Before worrying about issues such as slavery, people need to go back to the basics and ask themselves why they believe in God, and why they believe Islam is God's religion. To only be a Muslim because what you know of Islam seems to conform with your preconceived views is very dangerous, and will most likely lead to disappointment. If on the other hand a person has real faith in Islam (which is what religion is supposed to be about after all), then that person will not be bothered by a few aspects that they don't understand or that seem to go against what they have been brought up to believe. What happened to trusting in the judgement of Allah سبحانه وتعالى? Do people imagine that it is not possible that there may be some things they are incapable of understanding, but that serve a purpose?

Do you see anyone here arguing that being a slave is fun?

I find it incredible that you think you are even on authority in Islam. Do you think your extreme position on slavery is insightful?

Of course it is not fun being slave. But earlier in this thread you argue that you would rather be a slave than be with scum bag parents that would sell you into slavery. You really think you will have a better chance at life with slave masters who would rape you a few times a day and passed you around to his friends. How long do you think you will survive in that environment? A few years? Once your slave masters get tired of you, what is going to be your fate? Will they bury you in some landfill? Dissolve your bones with acid?

That's why we have government and private charities that takes care of children and women who have been abandoned. That's why we look after the less fortunate in our communities. There is a user here who is sharing her experience working with people who have been in similar situation. She highlights all the evils of slavery that a sane person should listen to.

I generally don't have problem with people who are peddling hadiths. My main problem is when people who peddle hadiths acts like they are authority in Islam and cause Muslims to abandon their religion. Doesn't it beats the purpose of dawah?

Edited by Gypsy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

guys thanks for your posts but so far while many of u have said why i should be ok with slavery or how its reformed i havent heard anyone say that it is not alowed. i think i am probablky done with this topic and other things as well as this reached a point where it clashed with what i think is rihgt.

Christianity used to be OK with slaves. But times change and so has Christianity. This is a very obvious indication that Islam needs to be reformed too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

(salam)

Gypsy - your view of slavery is an extreme one. We are discussing the Islamic view of 'slavery' not any other view, now as long as someone does not transgress the right of a slave then there won't be any "burying in some landfill" or "dissolving your bones with acid"

Can you please share your views on what you think is wrong with the Islamic concept of slavery

(wasalam)

Edited by Shia_Debater

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Christianity used to be OK with slaves. But times change and so has Christianity. This is a very obvious indication that Islam needs to be reformed too.

Islam never changes because time changes. You can not change perfection! Do not compare Islam with Christianity...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I need some clarification, please.

According to Islam, which type of persons are eligible for enslavement? Is it only PoW's, the criminal opposition? In other words, is slavery a replacement for a penitentiary? 

How is it possible that innocent men and women can be put on sale in the slavery market?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it incredible that you think you are even on authority in Islam. Do you think your extreme position on slavery is insightful?

Where do you get the impression that I think I am an authority on Islam? I am just like most other people on this site, posting my own opinions. The difference may be that I try t back up what I say with references to Islamic sources, but I'm always happy to be corrected if I'm wrong in what I say. Maybe you should try doing that, instead of just making arguments that rely on nothing more than emotion.

Of course it is not fun being slave. But earlier in this thread you argue that you would rather be a slave than be with scum bag parents that would sell you into slavery.

I think you need to go back an read it again, because that's not quite what I said.

You really think you will have a better chance at life with slave masters who would rape you a few times a day and passed you around to his friends. How long do you think you will survive in that environment? A few years? Once your slave masters get tired of you, what is going to be your fate? Will they bury you in some landfill? Dissolve your bones with acid?

Ok, now I know you didn't read what I wrote. I was quite clear in only defending the Islamic form of slavery, under which none of the things you mentioned are allowed. So you are just attacking a strawman here I'm afraid.

That's why we have government and private charities that takes care of children and women who have been abandoned. That's why we look after the less fortunate in our communities. There is a user here who is sharing her experience working with people who have been in similar situation. She highlights all the evils of slavery that a sane person should listen to.

Here's the thing though. You and the others on our side of the argument have yet to explain how this all ties in with Islam. You haven't addressed what the Qur'an says, or the example of the Prophet (pbuh) and Imams (as). It's all very well saying slavery is evil. In fact, it's the easier thing in the world. But not all of us want to bury our head in the sand and avoid the difficult questions.

I generally don't have problem with people who are peddling hadiths. My main problem is when people who peddle hadiths acts like they are authority in Islam and cause Muslims to abandon their religion.

What hadiths were peddled on this thread? I think I've mostly been posting ayats from the Qur'an and making reference to well-known historical facts. Anyway, in stead of complaining about people being pushed away from the religion, why don't you tell us how something as evil as slavery could have been allowed by Allah (swt) and practiced by the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as). Maybe if you are able to do that, then nobody will abandon their religion.

Doesn't it beats the purpose of dawah?

Do you think we just be dishonest about what our religion says in the name of dawah?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...