Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Ali J

Why Is Slavery Permissible In Islam?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

The prime example of how to treat slaves was shown by prophet muhammad (saw) adn ahlulbayt (as).

For the slaves it was a privilege to be slaves of these great personalities as they were treated well and also gained spiritually from it.

Lady Fizza is a prime example of this, she benefited so much from being a slave in the household of ahlulbayt (as)

i remember hearing that the prophet (Saw) used to be so just, he made a routine whereby one day lady fizza would make the food and bibi fatima (sa) would take a rest and the next day bibi fatima (Sa) would make the food and lady fizza would take a rest and so on. Lady fizza was like a housemember and not a slave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who is asking about how to treat them ?

OP wanted to know why to acquire them---why to sell, why to purchase an other human being ?

Treatment is just not relevant----you buy a merchandise, you use it, throw it, break it, whatever---- but first things first---

---why to buy it ?

Edited by ShahBano_BZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who is asking about how to treat them ?

OP wanted to know why to acquire them---why to sell, why to purchase an other human being ?

Treatment is just not relevant----you buy a merchandise, you use it, throw it, break it, whatever---- but first things first---

---why to buy it ?

Sister I am not rich or anything but from reading your posts it seems that you and your husband do quite a bit of work in an effort to combat the slave trade. Please let me know if there is anything I can do from my location because it would be of my pleasure to bring awareness to the situation or somehow raise funds or anything else. I doubt I will be able to to much but everything helps....every little bit....so feel free to private message me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not from an Islamic point of view, but for most who do not derive their morality strictly from divine sources, definitely.

I'm not sure how a Muslim can hold a different position on a question of morality than that of his Creator, Prophet, and Imam, in the full knowledge that it is different.

By the way, aside from divine sources, there is no consistent and objective way of deriving morality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how a Muslim can hold a different position on a question of morality than that of his Creator, Prophet, and Imam, in the full knowledge that it is different.

By the way, aside from divine sources, there is no consistent and objective way of deriving morality.

Muslims are humans after all, it is human to doubt, to question etc, that is not to say they hold a different position, but you can clearly see it leaves a few perplexed, anyway I was mostly referring to someone from the outside studying islamic morality.

No one said there is a consistent way, but overtime humans have developed a general moral code consisting of very elementary moral principles which fit the description/definition of universality. Obviously the human moral code is ever evolving as some matters are simply far too complex, here religion claims to know all the answers while the fallible human mind admits things are a work in progress. So you can see there is room for growth/progress in one case while things are quite stagnant in the other. In any case, there have been strong arguments made for slavery in the past, today it is mostly considered immoral.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how a Muslim can hold a different position on a question of morality than that of his Creator, Prophet, and Imam, in the full knowledge that it is different.

By the way, aside from divine sources, there is no consistent and objective way of deriving morality.

You are right that Muslims generally derive morality based on the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh).

But you are wrong that morality from the divine sources are consistent or objective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bro Haydar or other knowledgeable members,

Before discussing further, I think it's important to understand the rules of slavery in Islam to avoid further speculating (probably unconciously) by some members equating slavery in Islam with non-Islamic slavery.

Do you have the materials (or the overview) of how the detailed Islamic laws in slavery (or at least, an overview)?

I have a hunch that Islam doesn't abolish slavery right away due to social implications it could entail (for both the master & the slave). Therefore, by setting standards on how a slave should be treated, limiting a criteria someone could be considered a slave, & making freeing slave as kaffarah or recommended acts, can diminish slavery slowly. But, then again, let's look at the laws first to avoid further speculations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As it seems that I have been unable to communicate my question properly, so it ends this debate for me.

but to all those who consider slavery a delightful occupation, just see once into the eyes of a sold girl or a child, than answer it.

It feels good to say all these things when you are ,oh, so protected; when there are many poor and weak to bear the brunt.

What are those people---scum of the earth ?---toilet papers to wipe the filth ?

Face one girl who has been acquired and used against her will and than think.

Im Ali

He does not work for any NGO, as such. He runs his own destitute house---free education, food sometimes, medical treatment sort of thing. I just worked there as a volunteer. And believe me I have gathered enough of nightmares to last me for the rest of life. I had no option but to run away from there.

where slavery is concerned, he has to get involved when asked to intercede, -----( who can say to a miserable parent )---it's part of the tribal culture there, settle the score by hitting the most vulnerable part of your enemy---women and children.

So sometimes he uses persuasion/ negotiation, sometimes money and sometime, I do not know whether to be embarrassed or what , equally ferocious use of force and aggression.

Maybe in the end it all boils down to this----the language of power; who is speaking it and with what intend.

I had enough personally.

Edited by ShahBano_BZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Islamic slavery as practiced by pious Muslims may sound good because the slaves were given lots of rights and benefits.

But the current practice of slavery in the middle east and else-where is absolutely horrible and disgusting. The worst form of human exploitation.

Edited by Gypsy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are right that Muslims generally derive morality based on the Quran and the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh).

Hmm, I think that is what they should be doing, but I certainly don't think that is what most do. In situations were two positions are held to be more or less morally acceptable (at least to the point where an opposing viewpoint is allowed to be heard) by non-Muslim society, then most Muslims will take the side that agrees with Islam. However, things become a lot more complicated when non-Muslim society has a consensus on a certain position (like slavery, child marriage, etc). In those situations, you find most Muslims in incredible moral dilemmas, because they just can't bring themselves to disregard the morality of the non-Muslims that has been inculcated in them since birth.

But you are wrong that morality from the divine sources are consistent or objective.

God-given morality isn't consistent and objective from a human point of view?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Islamic slavery as practiced by pious Muslims may sound good because the slaves were given lots of rights and benefits.

But the current practice of slavery in the middle east and else-where is absolutely horrible and disgusting. The worst form of human exploitation.

Yes and these people owning slaves are supposed to be muslims? HMMMMMMM so how is one to make sure the slaves are treated well if the slave trade were to be legalized and regulated? Put cameras in the home of everyone who owns a slave? Have social workers do daily or weekly check ups and have meetings with the slave and slave owner? How do you make people behave? You can't! Even if they are treated good the idea of owning another human grosses me out....I just imagine how I would feel if I were "owned" or if someone I love was "owned" by another person.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes and these people owning slaves are supposed to be muslims? HMMMMMMM so how is one to make sure the slaves are treated well if the slave trade were to be legalized and regulated? Put cameras in the home of everyone who owns a slave? Have social workers do daily or weekly check ups and have meetings with the slave and slave owner? How do you make people behave? You can't! Even if they are treated good the idea of owning another human grosses me out....I just imagine how I would feel if I were "owned" or if someone I love was "owned" by another person.

ImAli,

Modern day slavery is not about cleaning your toilets and doing household chores. The rich Arabs already have plenty of maids from poor countries doing their household chores.

These slaves are for sex. Human trafficking/modern day slavery is mostly about prostitution and sex. Once they have no needs of these girls/children, they are abandon/discarded by their pimp/owners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ImAli,

Modern day slavery is not about cleaning your toilets and doing household chores. The rich Arabs already have plenty of maids from poor countries doing their household chores.

These slaves are for sex. Human trafficking/modern day slavery is mostly about prostitution and sex. Once they have no needs of these girls/children, they are abandon/discarded by their pimp/owners.

Yes I know....and that's even worse than cleaning toilets...and the fact that it is children drives me crazy even more.

I was watching a documentary of a child brothel once...and an undercover reporter went in with a hidden camera. A little girl no older than 4 was talking to him and answering questions as to what job she can do for him and what price......uffffff.

Edited by ImAli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but to all those who consider slavery a delightful occupation, just see once into the eyes of a sold girl or a child, than answer it.

I'm pretty sure nobody considers slavery a delightful occupation. Of course it's horrible to be taken as a slave, which is why Muslims can't take other Muslims as slaves.

It feels good to say all these things when you are ,oh, so protected; when there are many poor and week to bear the brunt.

What are those people---scum of the earth ?---toilet papers to wipe the filth ?

Face one girl who has been acquired and used against her will and than think.

Ok, let's try to clear a few things up. First of all, in Islam there is only one legal way to make someone a slave, which is to capture him or her in Jihad led by an infallible. Having said that, if someone is taken as a slave by some other (unlawful) means such as kidnapping, then nothing stops a Muslim from acquiring that slave. The point is that if the person is going to be a slave anyway, then surely it is better to be the slave of a Muslims, who at least in theory will have to treat him with a certain amount of dignity (some legal rights, feed and cloth him in the same way he himself is fed and clothed, etc), than to have the slave at the mercy of a kafir. Additionally, the slave will have the benefit of been exposed to Islam, and should he or she convert, it would then be highly recommended to free him/her after a relatively short period of time. This might seem like a small matter to some people, but they should remind themselves of the fact that we are all going to die and resurrected, and then what religion you belong to will count for quite a bit. So exposing someone to Islam, even in these types of conditions, could be worth an incredible amount to them in the afterlife, which as the Qur'an reminds us over and over is far more important than this world.

Another point to bear in mind is that in Islam the kaffara for many sins is the free slaves, which is in any case a recommended act anyway, so there are good chances to end up free. A slave also has the option of working to buy his own freedom, as mentioned (among other things) in the following verse from the Qur'an.

And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. [24:33]

Of course, all this applies to slavery in an Islamic society, where it is out in the open, not the kind of unislamic system we have nowadays. Obviously I don't support slaves being treated in an unislamic way, but as a Muslim I cannot say that slavery in all its forms is immoral when it was practiced by the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as), and is regulated in the Qur'an.

ImAli,

Modern day slavery is not about cleaning your toilets and doing household chores. The rich Arabs already have plenty of maids from poor countries doing their household chores.

These slaves are for sex. Human trafficking/modern day slavery is mostly about prostitution and sex. Once they have no needs of these girls/children, they are abandon/discarded by their pimp/owners.

Slaves were used for sex long before rich Arabs came along. What do you think slave girls were used for back in the time of the Prophet (pbuh) and Imams (as)? Just to do the cooking and cleaning?

Yes and these people owning slaves are supposed to be muslims? HMMMMMMM so how is one to make sure the slaves are treated well if the slave trade were to be legalized and regulated? Put cameras in the home of everyone who owns a slave? Have social workers do daily or weekly check ups and have meetings with the slave and slave owner? How do you make people behave? You can't! Even if they are treated good the idea of owning another human grosses me out....I just imagine how I would feel if I were "owned" or if someone I love was "owned" by another person.

If the slave is being mistreated, he can go to a judge and complain about his master.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...