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Ali J

Why Is Slavery Permissible In Islam?

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cmon guys this is the 21st century. there shouldnt be slavery allowed.

Fantastic Islamic argument. Soon it will be 'cmon guys this is the 21st century. we should be more accepting of gays'. The century we are in has no relevance to what Islam considers to be allowed or not. something doesn't go from halal to haram just because some time has passed.

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Yes we should all strive to keep the slave trade active because after all it is halal and it might infringe of the rights of a muslim brother or sister should he/she want to purchase another human. It doesn't matter that 99 percent of the time slaves are abused and treated worse than animals. Also if we work to eliminate slavery it might result in homosexuals taking over the world.

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Fantastic Islamic argument. Soon it will be 'cmon guys this is the 21st century. we should be more accepting of gays'. The century we are in has no relevance to what Islam considers to be allowed or not. something doesn't go from halal to haram just because some time has passed.

if u wanna have a slave than be me guest but it was wrong then and it is wrong now.

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Yes we should all strive to keep the slave trade active because after all it is halal and it might infringe of the rights of a muslim brother or sister should he/she want to purchase another human.

I never said we need to strive to keep the slave trade alive. However, there is a difference between not doing anything to maintain the slave trade, and saying that buying slaves shouldn't be allowed. This is making something halal into something haram.

As it happens, the slave trade still exists, just not officially.

It doesn't matter that 99 percent of the time slaves are abused and treated worse than animals.

Well, if that is the case then it would be better for Muslims to buy slaves, since they would not be allowed to treat slaves in that way, and if they did, the slaves would have some legal and religious protection.

The problem at the moment is officially there is no slave trade, even if it exists underground, so there is no way of monitoring it, and people caught up in it have no legal protection. At least if there was an official slave trade, then it could be regulated to some extent..

Also if we work to eliminate slavery it might result in homosexuals taking over the world.

Completely missing the point, which is that arguments like the one I was responding too can be applied to any other area of Islamic law modern society deems outdated and backward. I understand that some people have no problem with 'updating' Islam as time goes by, but I am not one of those people.

if u wanna have a slave than be me guest but it was wrong then and it is wrong now.

So the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) did something wrong, and they didn't even realise it. And Allah (swt) allowed something wrong, and put it in His final revelation to mankind. Great.

Remind me why you are a Muslim again?

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Any decent individual would consider slavery to be immoral by definition. To all those who say "Islamic slavery is different", it is irrelevant, since the entire moral premise upon which even our kinder laws of slave treatment are established is immoral by definition. If you are willing to study the evolution of religious practices then the Islamic treatment of slaves is quite understandable, in fact is its even commendable. For its time, islam went a long way in reforming the institution of slavery, granting slaves more rights and demanding better treatment from the slave owners. For its time, this was quite an achievement, and since slave labour etc was a bedrock of a lot of economies, it was practically impossible to get rid of the institution entirely.

However as muslims, we aren't just historians looking at Islam from the outside, we are to believe in the divine laws, we believe in an islamic code of morality. The question then arises, since we consider slavery to be immoral, why did Islam institutionalize slavery? Islam could have outright condemned the institution of slavery, and then taken gradual steps to slowly eradicate it from society. Instead it was institutionalized, it is inherently part of our system, which means it is totally justified and moral. Islamic slavery laws might be of little relevance in this day and age, but they still do exist. This topic is a touchy subject with scholars I have spoken to though, they are a bit reluctant to discuss it, for understandable reasons.

To those who cite the capitalist model as an example, most decent people consider the owner/employee relationship in that framework also immoral, the term is wage slavery, and it has immense contemporary relevance. This arrangement severely infringes on the rights of working people, but at least the working class can do something about that, it is a different ball game when an arrangement has been institutionalized by divine laws.

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So the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) did something wrong, and they didn't even realise it. And Allah (swt) allowed something wrong, and put it in His final revelation to mankind. Great.

Remind me why you are a Muslim again?

actualy i think u r the one who needs to do that.

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Completely missing the point, which is that arguments like the one I was responding too can be applied to any other area of Islamic law modern society deems outdated and backward. I understand that some people have no problem with 'updating' Islam as time goes by, but I am not one of those people

No I didn't miss the point.....but people need to quit bringing up the gays. Find a new analogy please because this one is on every thread.

As it happens, the slave trade still exists, just not officially.

Yes I know it exists and it is horrible.

Well, if that is the case then it would be better for Muslims to buy slaves, since they would not be allowed to treat slaves in that way, and if they did, the slaves would have some legal and religious protection.

Yes if I had money I would buy them and set every one of them free every chance I got.

The problem at the moment is officially there is no slave trade, even if it exists underground, so there is no way of monitoring it, and people caught up in it have no legal protection. At least if there was an official slave trade, then it could be regulated to some extent..

It would still be impossible to regulate it.

Edited by ImAli

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Human spirit craves for freedom, centuries of human history has proved that, whole generations have exhausted themselves to attain and maintain the illusion of freedom. One example is Vietnam and Kashmir----their standard of lives would have definitely improved had they succumbed to their assaulter---good civic conditions, roads, schools etc, ( equivalent to food, clothing for individual slaves ). But they still fought for the elusive freedom.

So, it's evident that state of being bonded to someone, to be subjugated to someone is a trauma for human psyche. Treatment which ones receives is besides the point. Idea itself is crushing to human soul.

Now, as not only slavery was encouraged but actually institutionalized by Islam so there is no choice left but to accept it, bearing this thing in mind that compassion and justice are the focal points of a divine religion. We are allowed to sell and purchase human beings, fine; what next ? What is our own moral dilemma tells us. Maybe, it's the same thing that we are provided by God with options and left with choices to decide upon which comes up best to the ultimate goal of being just and compassionate.

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The Imams and the prophets have kept slaves. Where they bad? I think keeping slaves is very necessary for the sake of poor people. One have to be kind to them. The rich share their wealth directly by that contact. Its a mutual understanding. In todays world they say slavery is abolished. And the West boast about it. In reality you find migrants,poor and even young children are exploited. You also find this evident in rich countries as well as poor countries. Better to have a proper system in place than to deny the fact and bury our heads in the sand.

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would the compassion of Holy Prophet allow this thing that kids ( girls especially ) ranging from age 4 up to any point are kidnapped ,sold, used, misused and abused ?

Before selling and purchasing comes an other stage---procurement,

Many are stolen, or kidnapped by the stronger/ powerful group or tribe ( as in the place my father belongs to ) mostly just to punish the weaker party of a tribal feud.

So, is there no concept of protection for the weaker one ?

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Slavery in Islam isn't like the slavery we know of where the person whips the slave and forces him to do labor all day. In Islam, you treat the "slave" as a family member, you cloth them and feed them as one of the family members. It's not like we can go and capture someone and be like "YOUR MY SLAVE". Their are specific rulings on how a slave becomes and slave and all that. the "slaves" of ahlul bayt loved their masters so much that some of them didn't even want to be "feed". We hear cases of how some slaves were given better foods and clothes than the "master" etc. Plus Islam allows slavery but you get tremendous thawab for freeing a slave. When Imam Ali as passed away, his will composed of money to be spent only on freeing slaves.

Before you condemn slavery in Islam, understand it first. It is nothing like the slavery of the west where the slave is treated like an animal...

Allah knows better than us, just because we don't understand something does not mean it is bad. Trust in Allah....

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Slavery in Islam isn't like the slavery we know of where the person whips the slave and forces him to do labor all day. In Islam, you treat the "slave" as a family member, you cloth them and feed them as one of the family members. It's not like we can go and capture someone and be like "YOUR MY SLAVE". Their are specific rulings on how a slave becomes and slave and all that. the "slaves" of ahlul bayt loved their masters so much that some of them didn't even want to be "feed". We hear cases of how some slaves were given better foods and clothes than the "master" etc. Plus Islam allows slavery but you get tremendous thawab for freeing a slave. When Imam Ali as passed away, his will composed of money to be spent only on freeing slaves.

Before you condemn slavery in Islam, understand it first. It is nothing like the slavery of the west where the slave is treated like an animal...

Allah knows better than us, just because we don't understand something does not mean it is bad. Trust in Allah....

I am not condemning an idea,

I am condemning a reality, place yourself in the shoes of a young kid who has been first kidnapped then used as a slave.

I have seen such kids, dealt with them on daily basis. So do not tell me what I understand or what I do not understand.

I have seen grief-stricken mothers crying while lamenting the loss of their kids, on the doorstep of my husband's house, begging him to intercede. I have witnessed their pain and misery.

I have seen it for almost 2 damned years.

Edited by ShahBano_BZ

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