Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Haydar Husayn

What Is Wrong With Tafwid (delegation)?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

(bismillah)

(salam)

Without resorting to 'because the Imams (as) said so', can someone give me some good reasons for why tafwid (delegation) is a heretical belief? Proof for the Qur'an or any hadiths that don't make direct reference to tafwid are acceptable as proof.

For those who don't know, here is the definition:

From a hadith:

And it is related from Zurara that he said: I said to Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq that a man from among the descendants of Abdu'l-lah b. Saba' is a believer in (the doctrine of) delegation (tafwid). And he said: And what is tafwid? I (Zurara) said: According to him Allah, the Mighty and Glorious, (in the first instance) created Muhammad and 'Ali, and then delegated the matter (of creation) to them, and these two created and gave sustenance, and caused life and death.

From Shaykh Mufid:

The adherents of the doctrine of delegation (al-Mufawwidah) are a group of extremists who are distinguished from the others by their peculiar claim that though the Imãms are created, originated beings, and not eternal, yet they ascribe to them creation and sustaining.

If nobody can prove it is a heretical belief (under the conditions I've set out), then it seems to me unfair that those who believed in this were so harshly criticised. After all, how were they meant to know?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Allah (swt) is All-knowing, All-seeing, All-hearing and All-powerful, why would the need arise whereby he has to 'delegate' His responsibilities? And even If such a major step were to be taken by Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, surely the Quran would mention it. Rather, the Quran consistently keeps on reaffirming how Allah (swt) alone is the All-powerful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haider what happened to you?..All of a sudden..??..A minute back u were north pole,after a minute south pole.

okay apart from being funny,Allah is Creator,but His Loved ones are only adminstrators,Their wishes affect the will of God..but the belief mentioned above is something else..those who believe He has got retired (nauzbillah)are heretical.

Again, i am intrigued,what makes u question that?I mean,moment back u were against Tawassul,now u are asking about Tafwid? :donno:

But still i haven't investigated the matter of tawfid fully,but Allah is not retired from everythong of course,but He has granted them authority to act on His behalf,but He is the Highest command.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

okay apart from being funny,Allah is Creator,but His Loved ones are only adminstrators,Their wishes affect the will of God..but the belief mentioned above is something else..those who believe He has got retired (nauzbillah)are heretical.

So in your view, there is only a problem with the belief if it is claimed that Allah (swt) no longer does anything and leaves it all to the Masumeen (as)? Is that correct?

And by the way, you didn't really explain why it is heretical, you just asserted it. What prevents Allah (swt) from delegating matters to the best of His creation, if He so wishes? He is still the one with the ultimate power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So in your view, there is only a problem with the belief if it is claimed that Allah (swt) no longer does anything and leaves it all to the Masumeen (as)? Is that correct?

And by the way, you didn't really explain why it is heretical, you just asserted it. What prevents Allah (swt) from delegating matters to the best of His creation, if He so wishes? He is still the one with the ultimate power.

Yes you are correct for first point,as for second look,there are matters where controlling,or adminstration is concerned,He hire their duties as His servants,but take example,there is a matter of day of judgement,Only He knows it's time,and Time of Zahoor even,because He is Adil(just).To manifest His power of justice He will take revenge from the deviant ones,first through His Imam(as)after Zahoor,and then on doomsday Himself,His quality of Justice is a part of Islamic fundamentals,so how can we say each and everything is handed over,but still this matter demands further investigation for which sense or authority this can be used,and where can't,i didn't probe much further into the issue,but yes Allah has called them His Eyes,Hands,and Ears,so it also shows They work for Him,as His will's custodians.

And again,why are you thinking about these things?What were you advocating five mins back is clearly an opposite to what u are asking here,is everything fine with u? :o

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam.

Here is what A.Khoi has said:

ومنهم من لا يعتقد بربوبية أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام) ولا بتفويض الاُمور إليه وإنما يعتقد أنه (عليه السلام) وغيره من الأئمة الطاهرين ولاة الأمر وأنهم عاملون لله سبحانه وأنهم أكرم المخلوقين عنده فينسب إليهم الرزق والخلق ونحوهما ، لا بمعنى إسنادها إليهم (عليهم السلام) حقيقة لأنه يعتقد أن العامل فيها حقيقة هو الله ، بل كإسناد الموت إلى ملك الموت والمطر إلى ملك المطر والاحياء إلى عيسى (عليه السلام) كما ورد في الكتاب العزيز : (واُحي الموتى باذن الله )(2) وغيرها مما هو من إسناد فعل من أفعال الله سبحانه إلى العاملين له بضرب من

الاسناد . ومثل هذا الاعتقاد غير مستتبع للكفر ولا هو إنكار للضروري

"There are some people who do not believe Amir-Al-Momineen (as) and other Imam's (as) to be God but believe that the Imam's (as) are the guardians of the affairs (Wali Amr) and workers of Allah and they are the most beloved and closest to Allah (swt) and hence give Rizq (sustenance) to the creations of Allah (swt) and also believe that it is Allah (swt) who is true sustainer (Raziq). This is similar to the case of angel of death being the one who gives death, the angel of rain sending down rainfall, Prophet Isa (as) giving life to the dead with the will/permission of Allah (swt) as has come in the Holy Quran. Having such a belief is not Kufr and is not a rejection of any essentials (belief of Shiasm)."

[source: Sharh-el-Urwatul-Wuthqa" Vol.3 Pg.68]

http://www.al-khoei.us/books/?id=513

Edited by muhibb-ali

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok so this is where it gets quite serious in my opinion and I'm not quite sure how to reconcile.

First, if this concept was so strongly opposed by not only such giants of our school as Saduq and Mufeed but by the Imams themselves (as Haydar Husayn's link proves), how in the world could have Seyyed Khoi come to a completely contrary conclusion?

And second, and this is most confusing, this tafwid concept doesn't seem to be much different from the concept of Wilaya al-Takwiniya which I think most of our scholars uphold as a true concept - and yet the Imam called tafwid a lie and Saduq called it kufr?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok so this is where it gets quite serious in my opinion and I'm not quite sure how to reconcile.

First, if this concept was so strongly opposed by not only such giants of our school as Saduq and Mufeed but by the Imams themselves (as Haydar Husayn's link proves), how in the world could have Seyyed Khoi come to a completely contrary conclusion?

And second, and this is most confusing, this tafwid concept doesn't seem to be much different from the concept of Wilaya al-Takwiniya which I think most of our scholars uphold as a true concept - and yet the Imam called tafwid a lie and Saduq called it kufr?

Salam

There was miss translation on my part on the words of A.Khoi (my post above), I had missed translating the part in Red below.

ومنهم من لا يعتقد بربوبية أمير المؤمنين (عليه السلام) ولا بتفويض الاُمور إليه

"And there are among those who do not believe Amir-Al-Momineen (as) and to be God, and don't believe in Tafweez of matters to them" .....

So A.Khoi does not consider this belief this to Tafweez.

You can read further on this link for what A.Khoi says about Tafweez, Ghulv etc..

http://www.al-khoei.us/books/?id=513

Basically from what I have read at the above link, A.Khoi differentiates this belief from Tafweez mainly due to the fact that "They still believe that its Allah (swt) who is the Raaziq and Khaliq in actual/true sense".

Wassalam

Edited by muhibb-ali

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This Mu'tabar Hadith shows the reason and limit of attatchment to the Imams by the companions of the Imam themselves, and the reply in affirmative by the Imam.

أبو علي الأشعري، عن محمد بن عبد الجبار، عن الحسن بن علي بن فضال، عن ثعلبة بن ميمون، عن أبي أمية يوسف بن ثابت بن أبي سعيدة، عن أبي عبد الله (عليه السلام) أنهم قالوا حين دخلوا عليه: إنما أحببناكم لقرابتكم من رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله) ولما أوجب الله عز وجل من حقكم، ما أحببناكم للدنيا نصيبها منكم إلا لوجه الله والدار الآخرة وليصلح لامرىء منا دينه. فقال أبو عبد الله (عليه السلام): صدقتم صدقتم

Abu Ali al-Ash’ariy from Muhammad bin Abdil Jabbar from al-Hasan bin Ali bin Fadhal from Tha’laba bin Maymun from Abi Umayya Yusuf bin Thabit bin Abi Saida from Abi Abdillah عليه السلام,

that they (His companions) said to him when they entered in to meet him:

Verily we have loved you for your nearness (in relation) to the messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله and because of what Allah عز وجل has obligated upon us in terms of your right (over us), we have not loved you because of this Dunya and what we might get of it from you, but solely for the cause of Allah and the abode of the hereafter, and that a man among us may set aright his religion (by this love),

so He said: you have spoken the truth, you have spoken the truth (twice).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Basically from what I have read at the above link, A.Khoi differentiates this belief from Tafweez mainly due to the fact that "They still believe that its Allah (swt) who is the Raaziq and Khaliq in actual/true sense".

But tafwid also clearly states that it was Allah that created everything in the first place. The only difference I see is that in Tafwid Allah created and then gave the managing of His affairs away to Masumeen (if I understand this concept correctly) and in Wilayat Takwiniya, Allah created and still manages some affairs yet others are managed by Masumeen, so they kind of share. While clearly a significant difference, I don't see how one would be total kufr and the other perfectly ok. They are the same in essence - both give the managing of Rizq and Khulq to Masumeen but at the same time state that the original/ultimate Raziq and Khaliq is Allah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But tafwid also clearly states that it was Allah that created everything in the first place. The only difference I see is that in Tafwid Allah created and then gave the managing of His affairs away to Masumeen (if I understand this concept correctly) and in Wilayat Takwiniya, Allah created and still manages some affairs yet others are managed by Masumeen, so they kind of share. While clearly a significant difference, I don't see how one would be total kufr and the other perfectly ok. They are the same in essence - both give the managing of Rizq and Khulq to Masumeen but at the same time state that the original/ultimate Raziq and Khaliq is Allah.

It's like the duty of angels,they(Ahlebait(as)) are managing as servants of Allah,not as creator.It's a common sense ,Izraeel takes away soul,by Allah's command,similarly Allah commands,they(Ahlebait(as) execute. Edited by Kaniz e Zahra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's like the duty of angels,they(Ahlebait(as)) are managing as servants of Allah,not as creator.It's a common sense ,Izraeel takes away soul,by Allah's command,similarly Allah commands,they(Ahlebait(as) execute.

in that case again - theres no difference between Tafwid and Wilayat Takwiniya. In both cases Allah commanded them to take the management of His affairs and they execute. And yet one is declared kufr by early scholars and the other is declared as perfectly ok by later scholars.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Read the first post carefully tafwid is when one believe them as creator,and handling over rizq,and sustenance,distribution by Allah's command,and entire authority on these matters are different things.

do u say that matter of death is delegated to Izraeel(as).?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

does it mean that according to Tafwid Allah created the Masumeen ONLY and NOTHING ELSE and then they created EVERYTHING ELSE? Or Allah created the entire creation first and then gave the managing of this creation, including life and death, to the Masumeen? If the first is true then that would be a substantial difference between Tafwid and Wilayat al-Takwiniya. If the second is true then I still see no substantial difference.

As for Izrail, he doesnt decide about life and death does he? He doesn't have CONTROL over life and death, he simply takes people away when Allah decides their time is up, right? He just performs an almost robotic function. So its irrelevant when discussing Tafweed and Wilayat al-Takwiniya which both assume the Masumeen have full control over everything, even if by permission of Allah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both of your assumptions are wrong anyway.Allah created them first,then they were given authority,not that they created as u said for first option.

Secondly,Izraeel's example is relevent,He works for Allah,but the difference between His and Masoomeen(as)'s authority is that they can make recommendation,which are then implemented by power of Allah,then they perform it as angels,but angels wishes don't affect destiny.Masoom(as)'s control is that Allah allows what He desires,and authorise Him to act upon it.

That is the meaning of control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam.

Allah (swt) says in the Holy Quran:

وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ رَضُوا مَا آتَاهُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَقَالُوا حَسْبُنَا اللَّهُ سَيُؤْتِينَا اللَّهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ وَرَسُولُهُ إِنَّا إِلَى اللَّهِ رَاغِبُونَ

If only they had been content with what Allah and His Messenger gave them, and had said, "Sufficient unto us is Allah! Allah and His Messenger will soon give us of His bounty: to Allah do we turn our hopes!" [Quran 9:59]

In another verse of the Holy Quran:

وَمَا نَقَمُوا إِلَّا أَنْ أَغْنَاهُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ مِن فَضْلِهِ

This revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them. [Quran 9:74]

With reference to the above verses we have the following narration:

كنز الفوائد للكراجكي : ذكر أن أبا حنيفة أكل طعاما الامام الصادق جعفر بن محمد عليهما السلام فلما رفع عليه السلام يده من أكله قال : الحمدلله رب العالمين اللهم إن هذا منك ومن رسولك .

فقال أبوحنيفة : يا أبا عبدالله أجعلت مع الله شريكا ؟ فقال له : ويلك إن الله تعالى يقول في كتابه : ( وما نقموا إلا أن أغناهم الله ورسوله من فضله )

ويقول في موضع آخر : ( ولو أنهم رضواما آتيهم الله ورسوله وقالوا : حسبنا الله سيؤتينا الله من فضله ورسوله ) فقال أبوحنيفة : والله لكأني ما قرأتهما قط من كتاب الله ولا سمعتهما إلا في هذا الوقت ، فقال أبوعبدالله عليه السلام : بلى قد قرأتهما وسمعتهما ، ولكن الله تعالى أنزل فيك وفي أشباهك ( أم على قلوب أقفالها ) وقال ( كلابل ران على قلوبهم ما كانوا يكسبون

It is written in Kanzul Fawaid by Karajaki that once Imam Jafar-e-Sadiq (asws) was eating food with Abu Hanifa and after finisning, Imam Jafar-e-Sadiq (asws) expressed gratitude like this:

“I thank Allah (azwj) who is the Sustainer of All Worlds, O Allah (azwj) this was a blessing from You (azwj) as well as from Your Prophet (saww).”

Upon hearing this Abu Hanifa said: “O Abu AbdAllah (asws)! You have include ‘someone else’ along with Allah (azwj).”

Imam Jafar-e-Sadiq (asws) replied: “Be Careful! Allah (azwj) Says in His Book(9:59):

“If only they had been content with what Allah and His Messenger had gave them, and had said, "Sufficient unto us is Allah! Allah and His Messenger will soon give us out of their Kindness"

And at another place Allah (azwj) Says (9:74):

“……And they only stayed in opposition because Allah and His Messenger enriched them out of His grace….."

After listening to these Verses from Imam Jafar-e-Sadiq (asws), Abu Hanifa said: “By Allah (azwj)! It seems I have never read or heard someone reciting these Verses of the holy Quran before.”

Imam Jafar-e-Sadiq (asws) said: “No, its not like this! You have not only heard these Verses before but also have read them. However, Allah (azwj) Says for you and people like you(47:24):

“Will they then not meditate on the Qur'an, or are there locks on the hearts?”

and Says (83:14):

“Nay, but that which they have earned is rust upon their hearts.

[source: Bihar Al Anwar Vol.47 Pg.240]

http://al-shia.org/h...ehar47/a24.html

Edited by muhibb-ali

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kaniz-e-Zahra, I'm sorry but with every single one of your posts I'm more confused. Can you or anyone else please provide a clear definition of Tafweed, a clear definition of Wilaya al-Takwiniya and then point out some substantial differences between the two. Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The illegal concept of Tafwid is what is mentioned in first post.

The real which is not known as tafwid but wilayat e Takweenia is that Allah created Ahlebait(as)first then created other things,and appointed them on management ,with His power,made them custodians of His will,Whatever Allah wants to implement their wishes are taken into account,and then He commands,and they as His servants execute that.

Like brain commands,our hands move,they are not moving on their own,but through a marvelous powers conferred upon them by their brain.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salamu 'alaykum,

In the book, Ehtejajaat, Ali bin Ahmed Qummi writes that some Shias had a difference of opinion that some said that Allah has given to the Imam the power to create and provide sustenance. Others were denying this.

Mohammed bin Othman Umri, who was a deputy of the Twelfth Imam (a.s.), wrote a submission (Areeza) seeking the Imam’s clarification.

The Imam’s reply was that it is only Allah who creates and provides sustenance.

It is another matter that in response to the supplications of the Holy Imams he creates and provides sustenance as per their wishes.”

Ayn al Hayat

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6370488/Essence-of-Life-Ain-alHayat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam.

Here is the complete narration that Br. LoveforTruth is referring to.

Sheikh Toosi Narrates:

و أخبرنا الحسين بن إبراهيم عن أبي العباس أحمد بن علي بن نوح عن أبي نصر هبة الله بن محمد الكاتب قال حدثني أبو الحسن أحمد بن محمد بن تربك الرهاوي قال حدثني أبو جعفر محمد بن علي بن الحسين بن موسى بن بابويه أو قال أبو الحسن علي بن أحمد الدلال القمي قال اختلف جماعة من الشيعة في أن الله عز و جل فوض إلى الأئمة ص أن يخلقوا أو يرزقوا فقال قوم هذا محال لا يجوز على الله تعالى لأن الأجسام لا يقدر على خلقها غير الله عز و جل و قال آخرون بل الله تعالى أقدر الأئمة على ذلك و فوضه إليهم فخلقوا و رزقوا و تنازعوا في ذلك تنازعا شديدا فقال قائل ما بالكم لا ترجعون إلى أبي جعفر محمد بن عثمان العمري فتسألونه عن ذلك فيوضح لكم الحق فيه فإنه الطريق إلى صاحب الأمر عجل الله فرجه فرضيت الجماعة بأبي جعفر و سلمت و أجابت إلى قوله فكتبوا المسألة و أنفذوها إليه فخرج إليهم من جهته توقيع نسخته إن الله تعالى هو الذي خلق الأجسام و قسم الأرزاق لأنه ليس بجسم و لا حال في جسم ليس كمثله شي‏ء و هو السميع العليم و أما الأئمة ع فإنهم يسألون الله تعالى فيخلق و يسألونه فيرزق إيجابا لمسألتهم و إعظاما لحقهم

"There was a difference among a group of Shias on whether Allah (swt) authorized the Imam's (as) to create and give livelihood. Some said that this is impossible and none other than Allah (swt) has authority to create. And others say that Allah (swt) has authorized the Imam's (as) over it and has delegated/authorized them and hence they create and give sustenance. And they (the two groups) disputed in this which was a severe dispute."

"Someone said why dont we approach Abi Jafar Muhammad bin Usman Al-Umree and ask him about this issue and make clear for you the right path in it because verily he is the way to the Imam of the Time (atfs) [sahib Al Amr]. The group agreed on Abi Jafar and wrote the matter to Imam of the Time (atfs). And came the following letter from the Imam (atfs):"

"Verily Allah (swt) is the one who creates the bodies and distributes livelihood. Because He (swt) does not have a body and nothing is inside Him. There is none like him and He is the all hearing and all knowing. And the Imam's (as) ask Allah (swt) and He creates and the Imam's (as) ask Allah (swt) and He gives livelihood. Allah (swt) anwers their questions (in affirmative) and exalts them for their rights."

[source: Al-Gaibah - Toosi, Pg.293-294 & Al-Ehtejaaj Vol.2 Pg.472]

http://www.marefatea...give-sustenance

After all the narrations and the verses of the Quran quoted above, what I understand is that the AhlulBait (as) also have been authorized by Allah (swt) control over Rizk and Khalq while Allah (swt) is the final authority and everything happens only by His (swt) permission.

Edited by muhibb-ali

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you. This is confirmed by this tafseer :

Muhammad Bin Abbas and Ibne Mahyar have, in their Tafsir, narrated from Imam Sadiq (a.s.) that he said:

"The Lord of the Worlds does not leave us to our own condition.

If He leaves us to ourselves, we also may become like others in the matter of sin and error.

But Allah has said about us:

"Call upon Me, I will answer you." (Quran, 40:60)

That is, Allah answers whatever supplication we make." (concerning Ma'sumins (as))

Edited by LoveforTruth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam.

As for (delegating) the creation and sustenance, then No! He (عليه السلام) said: ‘Allāh (عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ) says “Allāh is the creator of all things’ (3:16) and He says “It is Allāh, He has created you, then He has given you sustenance, then He has made you die, then He has brought you back to life, are there any of your partners who can does of that any of these things? Glory be to Allāh, and High is He from the partners (they attribute)” (30:40)

The above part of the narration makes is very clear that the belief of Imam (as) being Raziq and Khaliq independent of Allah (swt) is incorrect.

Wassalam.

Edited by muhibb-ali

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

call me stupid but I still don't see what is the difference between tafwid and wilaya takwiniya as there seem to multiple explanations of the first concept and no proper definition, by definition I mean pointing out exactly what tafwid is and what tafwid isn't.

Is the definition of Tafwid "giving the control over all affairs of creation to the Masumeen even though it was Allah who is the original creator of all things"? Is there anything to add or qualify to this definition? Because if thats pretty much what Tafwid is then how is it different from Wilaya Takwiniya which, as I understand, is giving the Masumeen control over everything in creation (over every atom in the universe as some scholars have put it) but by permission of Allah. In both cases the Masumeen have actual control but this control is not independent as it ultimately comes from Allah. So back to my original question - why is one shirk/kufr and the other 100% fine? I'm really confused and struggling with this...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When there was a thread on authority of masoomeen a.s where it was shown that they have ability to create etc nobody came up. If someone considers it mojiza then so it be and someone thinks wilaya of creation so it be.

Al hujja qabl al khalq ma al khalq baad al khalq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"There are some people who do not believe Amir-Al-Momineen (as) and other Imam's (as) to be God but believe that the Imam's (as) are the guardians of the affairs (Wali Amr) and workers of Allah and they are the most beloved and closest to Allah (swt) and hence give Rizq (sustenance) to the creations of Allah (swt) and also believe that it is Allah (swt) who is true sustainer (Raziq). This is similar to the case of angel of death being the one who gives death, the angel of rain sending down rainfall, Prophet Isa (as) giving life to the dead with the will/permission of Allah (swt) as has come in the Holy Quran. Having such a belief is not Kufr and is not a rejection of any essentials (belief of Shiasm)."

Is it permissible in your view to make dua to the angel of rain to send down rain?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it permissible in your view to make dua to the angel of rain to send down rain?

I think i have made clear in previous posts that the difference between angel's,and Imam(as)'s power is that angel only has power His desire doesn't affect,whereas Imam(as)'s power is authority as His wish is taken into greatest consideration by Allah,so we ask Them to Pray,not to angels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think i have made clear in previous posts that the difference between angel's,and Imam(as)'s power is that angel only has power His desire doesn't affect,whereas Imam(as)'s power is authority as His wish is taken into greatest consideration by Allah,so we ask Them to Pray,not to angels.

Ok, but it is wrong to make dua to angels, even if it has no effect?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But it's ok to make dua to Imams?

Yes!because their desires are being taken into consideration when matters of destinies are presented to them,not to angels,so whats the point of praying to them.They have mere powers,not authorities,they aren't Hujjah.Whereas Imams(as)are. Edited by Kaniz e Zahra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes!because their desires are being taken into consideration when matters of destinies are presented to them,not to angels,so whats the point of praying to them.They have mere powers,not authorities,they aren't Hujjah.Whereas Imams(as)are.

Just because something may be futile, it doesn't make it wrong. You've given an explanation of why it would be futile to make dua to angels, but have not explained why it would be wrong (ie haram).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...