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In the Name of God بسم الله

Can You Be A Shia And Say Abu Bakr Ra Was Muslim?

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Can you be a twelver shia and say abu bakr ra,umar ra, uthman ra, aisha ra, hafsah ra, muawiyah, amr bin aas and all the sahabah were muslim and died a muslim and were righteous people? i.e. hold the same opinion as sunnis

Are there shias on this forum who hold all the sahabah in high regard just like the sunnis do?

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Can you be a twelver shia and say abu bakr ra,umar ra, uthman ra, aisha ra, hafsah ra, muawiyah, amr bin aas and all the sahabah were muslim and died a muslim and were righteous people? i.e. hold the same opinion as sunnis

Are there shias on this forum who hold all the sahabah in high regard just like the sunnis do?

You cannot respect those who were the enemies of the Prophet's Family. Well, technically you can... But why would you want to?

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If you only consider sunni history--------------------> yes he was a muslim and a good one.

If you consider him in light of shia history----------> Oppressors can never be a Muslim, but a munafiq. .

History can never be confirmed because no one can go back to that time again and video tape all the events occured at that time.

May be this is the reason we don't hate people but we hate ideas and devils inside them.

I may be wrong but correct me if I am.

Edited by fightingsoul001
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Guest Mushu

to be a muslim all u need to do is say u believe and Allah and prophet Muhammad. If they said this then they r. Allah will judge what kind of muslim they were.

Yes, to be a Muslim. But to be a Shia you have to recognise the Willaya of Imam Ali (as).

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Yes, to be a Muslim. But to be a Shia you have to recognise the Willaya of Imam Ali (as).

well the title question is if they r muslim or not. he asked "

Can You Be A Shia And Say Abu Bakr Ra Was Muslim?"

so u can be shia and say they were muslim if they said they belive in Allah and prophet Muhammad.

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If you only consider sunni history--------------------> yes he was a muslim and a good one.

If you consider him in light of shia history----------> Oppressors can never be a Muslim, but a munafiq. .

History can never be confirmed because no one can go back to that time again and video tape all the events occured at that time.

May be this is the reason we don't hate people but we hate ideas and devils inside them.

I may be wrong but correct me if I am.

History can be confirmed through words of Quran,and Infallibles(as)

well the title question is if they r muslim or not. he asked "

Can You Be A Shia And Say Abu Bakr Ra Was Muslim?"

so u can be shia and say they were muslim if they said they belive in Allah and prophet Muhammad.

But the one who betray the Authorities of God can't be muslim,apparently yazed was known as muslim,so do u recognize him too?..if not the killers of Imam Hussain(as),then how can be the killers of Syeda(as) muslims?
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History can be confirmed through words of Quran,and Infallibles(as)

But the one who betray the Authorities of God can't be muslim,apparently yazed was known as muslim,so do u recognize him too?..if not the killers of Imam Hussain(as),then how can be the killers of Syeda(as) muslims?

look i dont make the rules. if the rules say to be a muslim u must say that u belive in Allah and prophet Muhammad than thats what it takes. and if Yazid said that then yes i belive he was a muslim.

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Aysha was a muslim,Or atleast during her marriage with the prophet. Similar I think all Sahabahs were muslim at one point or another. But it was the moment they openly rejected the Imam of their time that made them similar to the people of jahiliyya. (referring to the Sahih hadeeth in sunni books). And personally we can never know for sure that both Umar and Abu Bakr rejected Imam Ali(as) on their deathbed. We just cant know that.

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So slight difference of opinions but most say that shias do not consider abu bakr ra and the mentioned sahabah to be muslim.

what if a twelver shia says that i believe abu bakr ra was a righteous muslim whilst also believing in imamah

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Aysha was a muslim,Or atleast during her marriage with the prophet. Similar I think all Sahabahs were muslim at one point or another. But it was the moment they openly rejected the Imam of their time that made them similar to the people of jahiliyya. (referring to the Sahih hadeeth in sunni books). And personally we can never know for sure that both Umar and Abu Bakr rejected Imam Ali(as) on their deathbed. We just cant know that.

even if they did it doesnt make them non muslim. see my posts above.

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look i dont make the rules. if the rules say to be a muslim u must say that u believe in Allah and prophet Muhammad than thats what it takes. and if Yazid said that then yes i belive he was a muslim.

This definition of Muslim is outdated, at least nowadays. Islam is a religion, and it is not some kind of machine where you just push button and you become a Muslim. If it is your definition of Islam then Taliban and Al Qaeda are your brothers and you are bound in religion to get them help in all possible ways.

It will open all doors for mercenaries to just push the button and enter into fold of Islam and tyrannize Muslims in all possible ways. Which is obviously happening everywhere nowadays.

People who possess some mind can easily understand, how a person who believe in perfect beauties can cause corruption and oppression. It is about cause and effect. Believing in perfection will cause you to act in perfect way.

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So slight difference of opinions but most say that shias do not consider abu bakr ra and the mentioned sahabah to be muslim.

what if a twelver shia says that i believe abu bakr ra was a righteous muslim whilst also believing in imamah

earlier zaydia shia believed in immamate of hazrat abu bakar and omer.

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This definition of Muslim is outdated, at least nowadays. Islam is a religion, and it is not some kind of machine where you just push button and you become a Muslim. If it is your definition of Islam then Taliban and Al Qaeda are your brothers and you are bound in religion to get them help in all possible ways.

It will open all doors for mercenaries to just push the button and enter into fold of Islam and tyrannize Muslims in all possible ways. Which is obviously happening everywhere nowadays.

People who possess some mind can easily understand, how a person who believe in perfect beauties can cause corruption and oppression. It is about cause and effect. Believing in perfection will cause you to act in perfect way.

it isnt my definition of islam, its THE definition of Islam that was made 1400 years ago. u just wanna go ahead and change it? u cant do that. it is what it is weather u leik it or not.

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I've seen a video of 'Muslims' who profess love of Abu Bakr, Umar, Muawiyah et al killing unarmed Shi'ah men, women & children on a bus.

The lovers of Ali, Hassan & Hussain would NEVER (repeat: NEVER) do similar to sunni civilians. This is why for a Shi'ah it's impossible to have love for the people you mention; their animosity towards the Ahlebayt (as) is still manifest today.

ALI

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look i dont make the rules. if the rules say to be a muslim u must say that u belive in Allah and prophet Muhammad than thats what it takes. and if Yazid said that then yes i belive he was a muslim.

Why is that our jurists say whoever comes out to fight against Imam(as)get expelled from the sphere of Islam..even many sunnis don't recognize yazeed as a muslim due to his actions,strangely u do.
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it isnt my definition of islam, its THE definition of Islam that was made 1400 years ago. u just wanna go ahead and change it? u cant do that. it is what it is weather u leik it or not.

Belief is not just about announcing something, it also have some feelings involved and some results can be seen in behavior.

I don't think Islam is so much superficial and hollow. If that is the case how is Islam perfect religion?

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guys again i dont make the rules. if thats the rule that was made during propher Muhammad's time, than thats it. go argue with him, not me. u r taking the word of jurists over that of prophet Muhammad? can we shorten our daily prayers or fastings to just becuz that rule was made back then? obviosly we cant so its the same with this.

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guys again i dont make the rules. if thats the rule that was made during propher Muhammad's time, than thats it. go argue with him, not me. u r taking the word of jurists over that of prophet Muhammad? can we shorten our daily prayers or fastings to just becuz that rule was made back then? obviosly we cant so its the same with this.

Those rules are correct but how you are interpreting them is wrong.

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guys again i dont make the rules. if thats the rule that was made during propher Muhammad's time, than thats it. go argue with him, not me. u r taking the word of jurists over that of prophet Muhammad? can we shorten our daily prayers or fastings to just becuz that rule was made back then? obviosly we cant so its the same with this.

We are not arguing with u,we are making something clear,ok leave the jurists read Quran,when Allah speaks to ayesha,and hafsa,He calls them,"those who did kufr",read Surah e Tahreem,we aren't saying that ,Allah is saying...there are certain things which can make a muslim apostate. Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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It's simple..

  1. They were in the fold of Islam - so yes 'Muslim' by definition.
  2. They were not righteous (according to shi'a).
  3. They were oppressors of the ahlulbayt (as).
  4. To accept the Imamate of Imam Ali (as) is to distance from their enemies.
  5. We look at history to show us the enemies and therefore conclude those people are munafiqeen.
  6. Therefore it is highly illogical to be a shi'a and revere abu bakr & co as it's contradictory.

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Are there shias on this forum who hold all the sahabah in high regard?

yesss

ammar ibn yasir ra

jabir ibn abdulla al ansari ra

meqdad ra

salman al farsi ra

malik al asthar ra

abu dharr al jaffari ra....................................

i hold all the loyal sahaba ra in high regard - respect them a lot and try to follow them

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Hmm. Its not unusual to hear people saying they hate people like abu bakr/umar/muawiya etc, but i sometimes get the opposite impression. If i dislike someone i tend to avoid them and not keep drawing them into my life. I think some people actually love these characters in the same way we love a pantomime villain; they love the fact that they have decriptions of scum bags to compare the ahlulbayt to, as if Muawiya being a scum bag makes Hussain(as) greater, as if to insinuate a dependancy, which is actually more of an insult. Its as if people need these characters to be who they were in order to say they love Hussain(as) or alulbayt(as) as much as they do. So they think theyre hating, but in fact theyre loving and needing them as much as anyone/thing else. They certainly seem to spend a lot of energy talking about them and the people who arent 'hating' them as much as they profess to do. To me it isnt obviously necessary to hate 1 person to love another, i dont need abu bakr or muawiya personally; i dont need to define them or keep drawing them into my consciousness to realise or define my feelings and thoughts about ahlulbayt(as). So it seems a bit odd to me that people choose again and again to do that: choosing and needing their existence so much.

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It's simple..

  1. They were in the fold of Islam - so yes 'Muslim' by definition.
  2. They were not righteous (according to shi'a).
  3. They were oppressors of the ahlulbayt (as).
  4. To accept the Imamate of Imam Ali (as) is to distance from their enemies.
  5. We look at history to show us the enemies and therefore conclude those people are munafiqeen.
  6. Therefore it is highly illogical to be a shi'a and revere abu bakr & co as it's contradictory.

Very valid reasoning. This should serve as a lesson for most of us Muslim's who are reading this that -- Turning away from Imamate even though you are with Prophethood isn't going to take you to Jannah.

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Can you be a twelver shia and say abu bakr ra,umar ra, uthman ra, aisha ra, hafsah ra, muawiyah, amr bin aas and all the sahabah were muslim and died a muslim and were righteous people? i.e. hold the same opinion as sunnis

Are there shias on this forum who hold all the sahabah in high regard just like the sunnis do?

ahki come on in from the cold i know your tired of all the backstabbing and saying the quran is false

and edited join your 1.2 billion brothers and sister again omar ra broke the rib of iran thats the real

reason shia dont like the sahaba.

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ahki come on in from the cold i know your tired of all the backstabbing and saying the quran is false

and edited join your 1.2 billion brothers and sister again omar ra broke the rib of iran thats the real

reason shia dont like the sahaba.

No its because they fought the PROPHETS family.

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ahki come on in from the cold i know your tired of all the backstabbing and saying the quran is false

and edited join your 1.2 billion brothers and sister again omar ra broke the rib of iran thats the real

reason shia dont like the sahaba.

Your Hadith books were written by Iranians :lol:

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Your Hadith books were written by Iranians :lol:

YOU ARE 100% CORRECT MOST HADITHS WERE BY IRANIAN MUSLIMS BEFORE

THE AZERI CULT AND THE SONS OF ABDULLAH IBN SABA 500 YEARS AGO

WIPED OUT ISLAMS GREATEST SHEIKHS IN IRAN BUT THE GREAT IRANIAN NATION

IS COMING BACK TO ISLAM IN DROVES LARGE PARTS OF IRAN ARE IN REVOLT

OPENLY SAYING WE ARE SONS OF OMAR KHUZESTAN/HORMOZGAN/KHORSAN

THOUSENDS OF PERSIAN STAY IN THE GULF NATION AFTER BECOMING MUSLIM

I HAVE TALKED TO MANY OF THEM THE GCC NATIONS ARE BUILDING AN ARMY

THIS IS A OPEN SECRET IRAN WILL BE BACK UNDER THE FOLD OF ISLAM ONCE

AGAIN INSHALLAH.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtOD5XPqRQg

Edited by musab
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YOU ARE 100% CORRECT MOST HADITHS WERE BY IRANIAN MUSLIMS BEFORE

THE AZERI CULT AND THE SONS OF ABDULLAH IBN SABA 500 YEARS AGO

WIPED OUT ISLAMS GREATEST SHEIKHS IN IRAN BUT THE GREAT IRANIAN NATION

IS COMING BACK TO ISLAM IN DROVES LARGE PARTS OF IRAN ARE IN REVOLT

OPENLY SAYING WE ARE SONS OF OMAR KHUZESTAN/HORMOZGAN/KHORSAN

THOUSENDS OF PERSIAN STAY IN THE GULF NATION AFTER BECOMING MUSLIM

I HAVE TALKED TO MANY OF THEM THE GCC NATIONS ARE BUILDING AN ARMY

THIS IS A OPEN SECRET IRAN WILL BE BACK UNDER THE FOLD OF ISLAM ONCE

AGAIN INSHALLAH.

If Umar broke rib of Iranians then why would Azeris hate him?

So you dont like Ibn Saba but you like 'Abu Huraira' the another Jew? That was interesting....

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ahki come on in from the cold i know your tired of all the backstabbing and saying the quran is false

and edited join your 1.2 billion brothers and sister again omar ra broke the rib of iran thats the real

reason shia dont like the sahaba.

I understand aki what you are saying - but I just cannot understand how when you study the seerah of muhammad pbuh they would turn their backs so quickly after all the sacrifice given. I just find the "shia view" on the sahabah bonkers and crazy to be brutally honest

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