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In the Name of God بسم الله

Exposing Yassir Al-Habib

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"Put the kids to sleep, honey. Yasser Habib is on."

Salaams, I know in the past i've been quick to demonise Shirazis, however, i've recently seen the error in my ways, so first and foremost i'd like to apologise to all Shirazis. I should learn fro

1) Put in context or not, his comments are disgusting and utterly illogical. A shaytan comes to an innocent, sinless child and violates it to tempt it to homosexuality? Isn't one of the pillars of our

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On 1/29/2020 at 3:52 AM, Sirius_Bright said:

Meaningful discussion with you is not possible. I tried to answer from last couple of pages but you resort to name calling and being disrespectful to everyone. 

I recall you doing that to my scholar comparing yourself to an ayatullah. I don't recall insulting you though. I ask you to quote me where I did that. 

On 1/29/2020 at 3:52 AM, Sirius_Bright said:

Apple and oranges. For Taqleed, Imam (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف) himself has asked us to follow the narrators of ahadith (Marja'a in modern terminology). That doesn't mean they're completely correct in every single thing. And it is even different when it comes to Aqaed. Scholars differ greatly in terms of Aqaed. Since it is not possible that Imam (عليه السلام) has told two different things, one scholar is definitely wrong. It does mean following a scholar ≠ following Ahlul Bayt (عليهم اسلام). As for Ali Khamenei, I have my reservations and so do other Shias and you should respect that. 

That is my point though. Although I ask you to provide me proof on where that means marja specifically? It means scholars not necessarily maraji. The reason I say following scholars is following Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) is partly because of the hadith like this one. The Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) themselves say to follow them and turn to them. Also it is about following the right scholars if you follow the wrong ones than that hadith does not apply shirazis will agree with me here except they will disagree on the persons I am talking about. So we know following the right scholars is following Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) cause we are following their commands. 

As for aqeeda generally our ulema disagreeing in aqeeda entirely for example our usool I deen are the same and we can learn that on our own.

but still even in aqeeda following the scholars is still following Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام)

for example yasir habib has disagreements in aqeeda with certain scholars (putting it lightly) but his followers will claim following him is following Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) cause they believe he has the correct aqeeda or as good as it can get (they are wrong though).  

My point is even with aqeeda we can still say following a scholar is following Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) 

That hadith of Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) is telling us to go to the scholars for all Islamic issues. 

Lastly NO I will never respect peoples negative views on Imam Khamenei(ha) just like shirazis will never respect Imam Khamenei(ha). Your reservations are unjustified.

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8 minutes ago, TryHard said:

I recall you doing that to my scholar comparing yourself to an ayatullah. 

That was a joke. Even Shiachat Mod pointed out that was for laughter and not to be taken seriously. You don't get joke, do you?

10 minutes ago, TryHard said:

I don't recall insulting you though. I ask you to quote me where I did that

You are being disrespectful. Just read all your posts again and you'll understand... or maybe you won't understand because you think calling cult, Fadak TV crony, etc. are all respectful. 

13 minutes ago, TryHard said:

for example yasir habib has disagreements in aqeeda with certain scholars (putting it lightly) but his followers will claim following him is following Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) cause they believe he has the correct aqeeda or as good as it can get (they are wrong though).  

Yes. And you can agree/disagree with others based on Qur'an and Ahadith of Holy Ahlul Bayt (عليهم اسلام) and not because 'my favorite scholar can't be wrong '. Everyone 'can be' wrong except Holy Ahlul Bayt (عليهم اسلام). 

17 minutes ago, TryHard said:

Lastly NO I will never respect peoples negative views on Imam Khamenei(ha) just like shirazis will never respect Imam Khamenei(ha). Your reservations are unjustified.

Lol. Okay I'll think about it. Have a good day. 

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On 1/29/2020 at 4:33 AM, Sirius_Bright said:

That was a joke. Even Shiachat Mod pointed out that was for laughter and not to be taken seriously. You don't get joke, do you?

I felt like I and my marja were being mocked at. Anyways you started that and then I responded with yasir Habib (la)

On 1/29/2020 at 4:33 AM, Sirius_Bright said:

You are being disrespectful. Just read all your posts again and you'll understand... or maybe you won't understand because you think calling cult, Fadak TV crony, etc. are all respectful. 

My argument was 1. You started it. and 2. I did not insult you personally from what I remember. 

On 1/29/2020 at 4:33 AM, Sirius_Bright said:

Yes. And you can agree/disagree with others based on Qur'an and Ahadith of Holy Ahlul Bayt (عليهم اسلام) and not because 'my favorite scholar can't be wrong '. Everyone 'can be' wrong except Holy Ahlul Bayt (عليهم اسلام). 

see this is what I was talking about. I try and be as respectful as I can and address all your points and you reply in one or two sentences not addressing the rest of my arguments. 

Anyways My point of that was yes you can research the right path but after you will find certain scholars who have the right Aqeeda genarally and therefore following them would be okay. If you agree so far then the conclusion I am trying to make is that Following Them Would then Lead You To Following Ahlubayt (عليه السلام) therefore someone who follows Imam Khamenei(ha) would be following Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام). Even following a marja is following Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام) cause that is what they asked. So when Imam Khamenei(ha) and Sayed Sistani(ha) say public cursing like Yasir Habib is doing is unwise and should not be done we should follow that. Because following that is following Ahlul Bayt(عليه السلام). 

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On 1/27/2020 at 6:29 PM, TryHard said:

Since this Topic is about exposing yasir habib a month or two ago he asks protesters to surround the house of sayed Sistani (ha).  

Brother, they cut the lecture short, the sheikh responded to this in his lecture in the night after. What he was saying is that the protestors should protest in Najaf so Sayed al-Sistani makes a fatwa against the government. You are no different to the nasibis from anti majos who cut lectures short and saying this is shia belief.

Here's the full part for you: 

and here, the sheikh responds to this laughable lie:

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Posted (edited)

I'm not sure what the issue is. I don't agree with sheikh Habib's views and oppose much of what he says, but I respect that he is open and honest about them. From what I've heard, he just holds the opinions of classic shia scholars. These opinions are found in literature. And with new age technology, mass information on the internet as well as social media These views are accessible to all. 

Is there anything he says not from Shia literature or any views that mainstream 12er scholars differ on ? Or it is it a matter that they agree upon what he says but feel taqqiya must be used ? Or is it purely the issue of what he says about other scholars.?

Edited by Warilla
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On 5/2/2020 at 12:50 PM, Al-Muntadhar313 said:

What's going on in this video? And why is Yassir Habib holding a knife with the face of Ayatullah Sistani HA on the screen? 

knife.jpg

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On 5/2/2020 at 12:50 PM, Al-Muntadhar313 said:

and here, the sheikh responds to this laughable lie

@wolverine

I don't know Arabic either, but it seems like it's just an eye-catchy thumbnail mocking the people who claimed he 

On 5/2/2020 at 12:50 PM, Al-Muntadhar313 said:

asks protesters to surround the house of sayed Sistani (ha).

when he really 

On 5/2/2020 at 12:50 PM, Al-Muntadhar313 said:

was saying is that the protestors should protest in Najaf so Sayed al-Sistani makes a fatwa against the government.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/2/2020 at 10:20 PM, Al-Muntadhar313 said:

and here, the sheikh responds to this laughable lie:

Salam definitly he is not stupid to say it directly but his plan for gathering around house of grand Ayatullah Sistani (ha) & forcing him to giving a fatwa in favor of riots between protestors would lead to putting his life in danger that if he didn't give Fatwa in favor of riots some people among them would try to attack or kill him then they would say that it was an accident because of gathering angry people around his house that nobody could find real murderers or punishes them like Mushrikin gathered multiple murderers from each tribe to martyre prophet Muhammad (pbu)  but by grace of of Allah & sacrifice of Imam Ali(عليه السلام) their plan failed but again Munafiqeen used same strategy to kill the thir caliph Uthman that this time they used same strategy to harm or martyr grand Ayatullah Sistani (ha) but by grace of Allah their plan foiled again.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe
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22 hours ago, Warilla said:

I'm not sure what the issue is. I don't agree with sheikh Habib's views and oppose much of what he says, but I respect that he is open and honest about them. From what I've heard, he just holds the opinions of classic shia scholars. These opinions are found in literature. And with new age technology, mass information on the internet as well as social media These views are accessible to all. 

Is there anything he says not from Shia literature or any views that mainstream 12er scholars differ on ? Or it is it a matter that they agree upon what he says but feel taqqiya must be used ? Or is it purely the issue of what he says about other scholars.?

Exactly that’s the point. I don’t agree with his views on everything, but when it comes to the mainstream, he only preaches what’s in our classical books. He himself called upon anyone to challenge his views based on the Shia works of the past. That’s because a lot of Shias are nowadays religiously uneducated, many in power abuse religion for politics, doesn’t make what he says theologically wrong. 

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His problem is that he spreads fitna in deceptive ways. We know from the Quran that when dealing with people of the book, we should address what we have in common, while keeping the best of manners and polite disposition when in public. When exposing ourselves to people who are not exactly from our Creed, while they have books we can relate to, we need to be very careful not to burn bridges and create hatred and strife. I remember very well at the onset of the Syrian war where this guy kept going in public via his public videos, and would try his best to be inflammatory and insulting. He tried so hard that it even looked childish and desperate, with things like celebrating Aisha bint Abubakrs death day (with balloons and chanting something like "she's in the fire! She's in the fire!") - - and would use the ugliest language possible. This approach obviously led to the fury and anger of people who love this woman, as well as other characters that he insulted that they respect. They actually refer to her as their mother, so there he was insulting the mother of all the Sunis. How smart was that? Is that a way of educating or giving them information that might make them see the light of the wilaya? No! This was doing the exact opposite! He actually blocked the path to the way to Allah. In Arabic the path to God is called sabeel Allah, and it is often mentioned in the Quran how people block it. He made sure that these people hated Shia more and not only this! Tons of them had a fire burning in their chests after seeing him insult and humiliate their religious heroes, that they actually joined the Syrian insurgencies with the only aim to kill shias, to avenge their mother! This guy has Shia blood on his hands!

Then I used to fight with the pro YH people so hard, and the biggest proof against them is the documented politeness of the ahlulbayt. How did imam Ali treat Aisha? How did imam Ali treat the soldiers in the battle front opposing him at Siffin? What did the ahl bayt do? Did they insult any Sunni heroes in front of Sunis? No, no and again no! Never!

Then to top it off YH liked to get into politics while sitting in London, and talk about how we should literally follow the model of Israel, and make a gulfy Shia emirate based on the same principles as the Zionist entity. (Probably he wanted to be the ruler of this country - which they might have promised him in the case that he succeeds)

Additionally, I bombarded his supporters back then when he was gaining popularity on fb with hadiths talking about how bad it is to expose hadiths that would harm other people. I had hadiths lined up that said that if you say a hadith which gets someone killed, then it's as if you killed that person.

Of course instead of talking about zionism, Satanism, Saudi or whatever, he liked to attack mostly fellow Shia scholars (the more they were anti Zionist the more he attacked them), and make sure that the anti-Shia front in Syria had a constant supply of passionate and angry recruits who want to fight to defend their 'mother' from the evil rafidhis! It was all too obvious what this devil was trying to do, and for whom he was working.

Him saying these things that you guys believe in is like Christians burning our Quran , or them making cartoons mocking our messenger. It's not right! Only the most ignorant Christian would defend such acts, as the right way to go about things is to go the way Jesus or Mohamed did it. (Even if Christians believe that our prophet was a false prophet). And how they spoke to non Muslims is clearly documented. It's not in that disgusting, rude, filthy, shameless, cowardly way like this guy YH! He deserves no respect whatsoever and he's an embarrassment to the ahlulbayt and a bad Apple among the ummah. 

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On 5/5/2020 at 4:35 AM, AmirioTheMuzzy said:

@wolverine

I don't know Arabic either, but it seems like it's just an eye-catchy thumbnail mocking the people who claimed he 

Exactly

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, 313 Seeker said:

politeness of the ahlulbayt. How did imam Ali treat Aisha? How did imam Ali treat the soldiers in the battle front opposing him at Siffin? What did the ahl bayt do? Did they insult any Sunni heroes in front of Sunis? No, no and again no! Never!

This is my one of my problem with 12er. theologically. For example :

Sheikh Sadooq etc explicitly state Aisha, Abu, bakar, Umar, Uthman are kafir. 

Then I have heard qualified Ulema say Ahlulbayt learn knowledge from Father to son, whereas others have said beams of light come down an impart divine knowledge once they become Imam.

These view goes against the words and actions of Ahlulbayt widely accepted but can be found in 12er exclusive literature.

Since these books are available how can you then ask Sunni for unity when you believe their sacred personalities as Kaffir.

I disagree with YH manners but I also disagree with modern scholars trying to hide views. 

You can be polite and truthful  at the same time.

Or if views have changed then openly admit the likes of Sheikh Sadooq got it wrong. 

Too many mixed messages. With Yassir Habib you know where you stand. 

Edited by Warilla
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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Warilla said:

This is my one of my problem with 12er. theologically. For example :

Sheikh Sadooq etc explicitly state Aisha, Abu, bakar, Umar, Uthman are kafir. 

Then I have heard qualified Ulema say Ahlulbayt learn knowledge from Father to son, whereas others have said beams of light come down an impart divine knowledge once they become Imam.

These view goes against the words and actions of Ahlulbayt widely accepted but can be found in 12er exclusive literature.

Since these books are available how can you then ask Sunni for unity when you believe their sacred personalities as Kaffir.

I disagree with YH manners but I also disagree with modern scholars trying to hide views. 

You can be polite and truthful  at the same time.

Or if views have changed then openly admit the likes of Sheikh Sadooq got it wrong. 

Too many mixed messages. With Yassir Habib you know where you stand. 

This is a very big problem nowadays. A lot of Shia ulama either reinterprets our religion or does Taqiyya to “preserve Islamic unity” and “avoid fitna.” This runs contradictory to the classical Shi’ite scholars as well as our beliefs. It encourages Shia to Sunni conversions, as well as preventing Sunni to Shia conversions, because “we are one” and “the differences are minimal”. Ulama that disagrees with such is labeled and cursed from the worst. The honest truth is that no matter what we do, majority of Sunnis will hate and oppress us and it won’t change till the reappearance of the Imam Mahdi (عجّل الله تعالى فرجه الشريف). The oppression didn’t start with the Wahhabism, it was there since ever. Our theological differences are irreconcilable. Therefore I belong to the side that is open to debates and discussions but will never deny or hide my beliefs.

Edit: On the other hand, Sunni ulama is very hypocritical and submissive to tyranny. They are first to issue fatwas for jihad in Iraq and Syria, because Sunnis do not have a majority rule there, but do nothing about Sunni oppression in Kashmir (at the hands of polytheist Hindus), Ughyurs (at the hands of atheist Chinese), Palestine (Zionist Jews), oppression by tyrants such as in Saudi Arabia, Morocco or UAE. Then Sunni-Sunni loyalty overcomes all obstacles. Not to mention accepting tyranny when it’s aimed at Shias such as in Baathist Iraq or Bahrain under al Khalifas. As long as Shias are oppressed, it’s ok. 

As for the broader beliefs, over centuries Sunni theological books have been purged of majority of references to the beliefs that could be claimed by the Twelvers. Till this day, many Sunnis works either omit uncomfortable facts or are deliberately changed, such as ahadith narrating “such and such”, when the person in question is known. 

Edited by OrthodoxTruth
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19 hours ago, Warilla said:

er exclusive literature

Salam as you said these are exclusive literature also you can also find many wahabi/Salafi books like Ibn Taymiah that are accusing Shia Imams & their followers to Kufr also in comparison you can find more weird ideas & contradictions in wahabi/Salafi/Sunni books but they are safeguarding their books by calling their books as Sahih & etc & about transfering knowledge some prophets also were fathers & Sons that although their sons had divine knowledge  but their fathers were rising & teaching them to be their successors anyway it needs a separate thread but people like Yaser Habib mostly relying on mixing of hatred & weak narrations for their evil agenda like their rivals in wahabi/Salafi side as colonizers & Zionist agents found &  introduced these hate preachers from both sides as representative of shias & Sunnis to cause bloody war between Shia & sunni muslims for weakening muslims & protecting Israel & Zionism agenda.

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22 minutes ago, Life2020 said:

Aside from issues regarding Vilayatul e Fiqhi I don’t necessary has a problem with Yasser Al Habib or Allahyari. I think that they are quite clear scholars actually who are straightforward 

I'm not a fan of hassan allahyari, as he has insulted Sayed al-Sistani, Sayed al-Shirazi and Sheikh Yasser, to name a few. No doubt though, allahyari has responded to many arguments in a clear, logical way. May Allah forgive his shortcomings.

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On 5/6/2020 at 1:37 PM, Warilla said:

This is my one of my problem with 12er. theologically. For example :

Sheikh Sadooq etc explicitly state Aisha, Abu, bakar, Umar, Uthman are kafir. 

Then I have heard qualified Ulema say Ahlulbayt learn knowledge from Father to son, whereas others have said beams of light come down an impart divine knowledge once they become Imam.

These view goes against the words and actions of Ahlulbayt widely accepted but can be found in 12er exclusive literature.

Since these books are available how can you then ask Sunni for unity when you believe their sacred personalities as Kaffir.

I disagree with YH manners but I also disagree with modern scholars trying to hide views. 

You can be polite and truthful  at the same time.

Or if views have changed then openly admit the likes of Sheikh Sadooq got it wrong. 

Too many mixed messages. With Yassir Habib you know where you stand. 

Thanks that's very interesting!

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam as you said these are exclusive literature also you can also find many wahabi/Salafi books like Ibn Taymiah that are accusing Shia Imams & their followers to Kufr also in comparison you can find more weird ideas & contradictions in wahabi/Salafi/Sunni

Definitely but the key difference is Sunni have categorised and differentiated themselves. So for example a maturidi hanafi will openly disagree with a salafi athari on theology and fiqh and disregard the likes of ibn Taymiyya.

Second salafi never ask for unity with anyone they basically  call every one kaffir.

Where as contemporary 12er scholar will say we don't believe the caliphs to be Kuffar but at the same time hold a classic scholar in high regard and say there is uniformity.

I understand the need to present a united front and prevent further division.

But 12er scholars calling for unity with Sunni need to dissociate themselves with some classic scholars as you can't have both.

Or go with the classic opinion like Sheikh Habib and disregard unity.

Edited by Warilla
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On 5/7/2020 at 12:00 AM, OrthodoxTruth said:

. Our theological differences are irreconcilable.

I agree with this but there is another option, some kind of reform. Where a neo 12er movement openly have a theology that goes against the classic system.

Similar to how usooli went against akhbari by going against  Tareef of Qur'an and  introducing a system of verifying hadith. 

Sheikh Hili would be an example of this. Many in the 12er akhbari  world cursed him at the time.

But as it stands when 12er say there can be unity they :

1) Either they lack knowledge of theology

2) Are practicing taqiyya or are disingenuous

3) Or don't care about classic theology and have formed their own.

If anything Yasir Habib represents a purer 12er position close to text and literature.

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On 5/7/2020 at 12:19 PM, Warilla said:

I agree with this but there is another option, some kind of reform. Where a neo 12er movement openly have a theology that goes against the classic system.

Within Sunnism there are many such reformers as well; Wahhabis, Ahmadis and others. Doesn’t make their beliefs correct and right. 

Quote

Similar to how usooli went against akhbari by going against  Tareef of Qur'an and  introducing a system of verifying hadith. 

Usulism vs Akhbarism is a long subject. There’s many books written on that. However, in general, it is a debate on the methods of acquiring “do’s and don’ts” by different methods. Both are at the end of the day Twelver Shia Muslims that do not disagree on the fundamentals of religion. Similar arguments are raised within Sunnism. What’s more, Sunni madahib differ considerably on many aspects of Sharia law. One school’s rulings can lead the other’s into hell. Historically, there were fierce competitions between the aforementioned. It’s more realistic to say that there is many versions of Sunnism that many times fundamentally differ, than Shia Islam where debate is within religion, not around it

Quote

But as it stands when 12er say there can be unity they :

1) Either they lack knowledge of theology

2) Are practicing taqiyya or are disingenuous

3) Or don't care about classic theology and have formed their own.

If anything Yasir Habib represents a purer 12er position close to text and literature.

In my humble opinion, it’s all about politics for majority of these people and not religion. Others do it out of fear of persecution in Sunni majority countries, which is an illogical fallacy because Shia Muslims are persecuted since ever and it will never end, no matter how far and much we Sunnificate (Shia) Islam. Others truly believe in “unity” and “brotherhood” between our religions, which in turn runs contradictory to the classical Shi’ite beliefs, just as in Sunnism. 

In my opinion, the biggest problem is the fact that Sunnis do not want to talk, debate or exchange ideas but immediately become violent, in any form and shape, and suppress any notion of Sunnis becoming Shias. At least historically ulama of both at times openly questioned their beliefs, nowadays it’s basically “free for all” Sunni on Shia genocide, which in my opinion is another weakness of Sunnism and it shows its overall intellectual deficiency. No sane and scholarly exchanges of ideas but propaganda, hate and violence aimed at Shias. I know a Shia person who almost got killed in Sunni majority country for showing Sunnis what they believe in from their own ahadith books. This is what we deal with it.

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18 hours ago, Al-Muntadhar313 said:

I'm not a fan of hassan allahyari, as he has insulted Sayed al-Sistani, Sayed al-Shirazi and Sheikh Yasser, to name a few. No doubt though, allahyari has responded to many arguments in a clear, logical way. May Allah forgive his shortcomings.

Allahyari is good at debating Sunnis from their own books, but once he moved to the US, he became too Americanised over time. The change is clearly visible for anyone who follows his videos. Lately he even stopped wearing the “alim’s clothes” and wears suit and tie. Of course, it’s not wajib upon any alim to dress in any particular way, but it demonstrates how cultures can have powerful influence on Muslims. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide him. 

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On 5/7/2020 at 12:19 PM, Warilla said:

I agree with this but there is another option, some kind of reform. Where a neo 12er movement openly have a theology that goes against the classic system.

Similar to how usooli went against akhbari by going against  Tareef of Qur'an and  introducing a system of verifying hadith. 

Sheikh Hili would be an example of this. Many in the 12er akhbari  world cursed him at the time.

But as it stands when 12er say there can be unity they :

1) Either they lack knowledge of theology

2) Are practicing taqiyya or are disingenuous

3) Or don't care about classic theology and have formed their own.

If anything Yasir Habib represents a purer 12er position close to text and literature.

I agree. I became Zaydi due to certain Twelver positions which just cannot be reconciled even in the Usuli school - twelve imams, infallibility, occultation, etc...

Yasir is a pure akhbari no doubt and has made a cult out of opening Bihar al-Anwar and choosing the most extreme narration you can find. It's micky mouse scholarship at its finest but is highly damaging to the Shia school. Having said that, verifying hadith itself is a bit of a joke science as the Salafis (who apparently are the most stringent in hadith) have the most fabricated hadiths, they've gone one step further to label their books "Sahih". Just read through the sections of Bukhari/Muslim on the virtues of the companions - it is pure comedy. Even this concept of mutawatir - there are so few hadiths of this grade and I believe the main one is "Whoeever lies about me (intentionally), prepare his seat for the hellfire"

It's almost like Yasir missed this ayat of the Quran, but if we all followed this truthfully then A LOT of pulpit preachers would be out of a job ;)

Shakir: And follow not that of which you have not the knowledge; surely the hearing and the sight and the heart, all of these, shall be questioned about that.

17:36

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On 5/8/2020 at 12:43 AM, OrthodoxTruth said:

 Usulism vs Akhbarism is a long subject. There’s many books written on that. However, in general, it is a debate on the methods of acquiring “do’s and don’ts” by different methods. Both are at the end of the day Twelver Shia Muslims that do not disagree on the fundamentals of religion.

But it goes beyond the did and don'ts because if you follow through with usooli thoughts and take it further. You may be left with no reliable hadith that mention imamat the way it's understood by 12er. And if you take akhbari to an extreme then the Qur'an as we have it has been tampered with.

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6 hours ago, Warilla said:

But it goes beyond the did and don'ts because if you follow through with usooli thoughts and take it further. You may be left with no reliable hadith that mention imamat the way it's understood by 12er.

That’s not true, just take al-Kafi which is full of hadiths relating to the Imamat and why we should unconditionally follow the A’immah... and the punishments for those who do not. 

Quote

And if you take akhbari to an extreme then the Qur'an as we have it has been tampered with.

The problem with Akhbarism is that they are literalist like Wahhabis. Besides, nowadays Akhbaris are in a state of intellectual deficiency, there’s very few ulama of theirs that raises any interesting points. Nowadays, majority of Akhbaris are people living in Pakistan and India who due to geographical locations were and are “cut off” from the wider Middle East and its religious influences that’s why over the time they became theologically somehow independent. It’s not an excuse of course but that’s how some of them see it. In my opinion it’s sheer laziness as well as the reality of poverty. They refuse to pay khums money “to the Arab mullahs”. It’s an ignorant way full of blindness. They reject maraji’ yet consult their aunties on fiqh rulings. 

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On 5/8/2020 at 2:39 PM, gharib570 said:

I agree. I became Zaydi due to certain Twelver positions which just cannot be reconciled even in the Usuli school - twelve imams, infallibility, occultation, etc...

I'm also zaidi seems there is a few of us on Shia chat. In general the madhab is gaining more recognition.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, OrthodoxTruth said:

That’s not true, just take al-Kafi which is full of hadiths relating to the Imamat and why we should unconditionally follow the A’immah... and the punishments for those who do not. 

 

If you take the 4 books the

hadith that name of all 12imams are minimal. And depending on criteria could be seen as weak.

The number of imams vary

There are hadith where Imams explicitly state only the the 5 of ayat Tahir are infallible

How many authentic chains are there that narrate the birth of the son of Hassan Al Askari.

Then there are hadith about 12 mahdis etc. 

So depending on how strict and what criteria  you use who the imams are, what infallibility means and what there roles are. The fundamentals  can vary.

There is a UK sheikh (Arif) that uses usooli methods and his concept of imamat is very different from the mainstream.( You may not agree with him but his methodology is definitely viable within a usooli system).

Edited by Warilla
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33 minutes ago, Warilla said:

If you take the 4 books the

hadith that name of all 12imams are minimal. And depending on criteria could be seen as weak.

The number of imams vary

There are hadith where Imams explicitly state only the the 5 of ayat Tahir are infallible

How many authentic chains are there that narrate the birth of the son of Hassan Al Askari.

Then there are hadith about 12 mahdis etc. 

So depending on how strict and what criteria  you use who the imams are, what infallibility means and what there roles are. The fundamentals  can vary.

There is a UK sheikh (Arif) that uses usooli methods and his concept of imamat is very different from the mainstream.( You may not agree with him but his methodology is definitely viable within a usooli system).

I completely disagree with you. Al-Kafi alone is enough to prove the concept of Imamate, Imamah and the number of Imams. Hadiths that refer, for example, to the “twelve Mahdis” are not to be taken literally, just as when Imams or great scholars are called “Mohammeds.” The fundamentals of Twelver Shia hadith sciences are nowadays nearly uniformed. I have written on the methodology numerous times on this forum. We are not literalists, something that many people outside of madhab have a very difficult time understanding. 

Shaykh Arif Abdullhussain? The founder of al Mahdi institute? I know personally one revert who graduated from there and as a Shaykh all he posts daily is heavily Sufi influenced posts quoting ibn Arabi, Rumi et al. I’m highly suspicious of Irfan, therefore I wouldn’t be suprised if Shaykh Arif would have views differing from the mainstream orthodoxy. I’m personally very  classical - “conservative” and I follow Twelver orthodoxy rigorously, although I believe that different ideas and views should be exchanged, but it doesn’t make them automatically theologically acceptable or correct and persistence in their promoting can lead to misguidance, heresy and even apostasy. 

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On 5/7/2020 at 9:33 PM, Warilla said:

But 12er scholars calling for unity with Sunni need to dissociate themselves with some classic scholars as you can't have both.

Or go with the classic opinion like Sheikh Habib and disregard unity.

Salam you misunderstood meaning of unity between Sunni & Shias the unity doesn't mean that Shias & Sunnis dissociate from their classic scholars , the unity means that we tolerate each other & be in same front against our enemies without forgetting our legacy & red lines but mr Habib doctrine is Zionist opinion that not only puts Shias & Sunnis against each other but also puts Shias against each other that just fulfills agenda of Zionist centrs of London that British freemason lodges had great rule in creation Israel & making rift between Shias & Sunnis by using personalities like Abdulwahab the creator of Wahabism & Sayed Báb the founder of Bábism that was a person like mr Habib & Allahyary which his deviation leads to creation of Bahaism .

 

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On 5/11/2020 at 4:47 PM, Rauf Murtuzov said:

is it true that he said the Queen Elizabeth II is from Ahlul-Bayt?

Nope. It was clearly a joke, go watch the sheikh's videos regarding these laughable accusations.

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