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In the Name of God بسم الله

Indo-pak Shias..

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It comes from a lack of education and ignorance. That is not entirely their fault. There's no need to generalise a whole nation - it's not 'so many' of them. Every community has their ignorants, not j

this post is ridiculously stupid... why dont we go about and complain about Shias from all races based on their worst examples.....

More racism and stereotyping than an English Defence League rally. Some people seem to not know racism is strongly condemned in Islam. I've heard most Iranians are secretly wanting to return to being

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And, as I asked in my post, who is associating an Imam (ajtf) with Allah (jjh)? We believe in tawassul/waseelah so what is the issue with calling upon a living Imam (atjf)?

If you're not a Shi'ah then fine, you can try and go direct but we generally like the idea of calling on His (jjh) beloved Signs (as).

ALI

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That's your response to the ayah of the Qu'ran telling you not to make dua or call upon anybody other than Allah?

Where are the Tafaseer of Aimma(as) telling that these Verses were revealed for Muslims and not pagans of those times.

So as per your theory all of the Shia ulema mushrikeen then? Which sect you belong to?

BTW Calling on Masoomeen(as) is nothing peculiar for indo/pak people, Iraqi/ Irani/ Afghani and Shias of other parts of world do exactly same, have you ever been to any Muslim country with Shia ;population seriously? Such a pathetic general knowledge speaks volumes of your ignorance.

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Salamalaikum

This is what we believe

In reference to 5:35 of quran I found a tafseer from basair ut darjaat that imam ali a.s said: I am that wasila through which everything reaches Allah azwj.

Bro muhibb can look for exact words in volume 5 chapter one.

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Salamalaikum

This is what we believe

In reference to 5:35 of quran I found a tafseer from basair ut darjaat that imam ali a.s said: I am that wasila through which everything reaches Allah azwj.

Bro muhibb can look for exact words in volume 5 chapter one.

Sounds like rubbish to me.

He directly contradicts himself in Nahjul Balagha that means.

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Sounds like rubbish to me.

He directly contradicts himself in Nahjul Balagha that means.

Rubbish is what you are pouring out.

Stop taking help from what others have quoted in their threads.This thing has been addressed several times. If you know, which i know you don't, our very earliest scholar Sh.Sadooq was born after his father called for help from Imam(as) of the time. We see many instances in Quran where even Prophets called for help from 'others', but only if one sheds off his biases to see the truth.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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Aslamalaykum,

@Somosa

Sounds like rubbish to me.

How dare you to call the words of the Imam rubbish have some shame.

He directly contradicts himself in Nahjul Balagha that means.

No He a.s doesn't, it's your comprehension problem.

In reference to 5:35 of quran I found a tafseer from basair ut darjaat that imam ali a.s said: I am that wasila through which everything reaches Allah azwj.

Author of tafsir Al Mizan tafsir says the same thing......

The verse, with its generality, supports the tradition of al-Kafi; and it is known that reason or occasion of revelation does not restrict the apparent meaning of a verse.

al-Qummi has written about the words of Allah: O you who believe! Fear Allah and seek means of nearness to Him.. , that (the Imam) said, "Come near Allah through the Imam."

The author says: That is, through obedience to the Imam. Thus it is based on the flow of the Qur'an, and applies the verse to its best import. A similar narrative has come from Ibn Shahrashub that he said, "The Leader of the Faithful (a.s.), said about the divine word: and seek means of nearness to Him: 'I am the means of nearness to Him.'" And nearer to it is the narration of Basairu 'd-darajat, through his chains from Salman from 'Ali (a.s.). Also possibly the two narratives may be a sort of interpretation. Ponder on it.

Edited by muslimunity1
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Sounds like rubbish to me.

He directly contradicts himself in Nahjul Balagha that means.

The contradiction is in ur brain because u think that the meaning of the imam a.s 's saying in nahj ul balagha is limited to ur understanding.

Edited by inshaAllah
Please avoid personal attacks. Warn log updated.
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Show me an example of one Prophet calling for help from someone deceased or not in their direct vicinity rather than Allah.

Suleman(as) asked for help, and got it from Asif bin Barkhiya(as).

As for deceased if you ever pick up Islamic book,and read the narrations, there are evidences that they(Martyred Imams(as)) can hear us, from any 'indirect vicinity' see the posts of brother Jebreil in beliefs of jahiliya thread. They are alive too, as Allah confirms about Martyrs . What is the meaning of Ayat ''don't call them dead(deceased)'' near you.?

And you started with our present Imam(as) who is alive in worldly sense as well, MashAllah.

So now you are shifting positions? As you knew that Prophets sought help during their lives so you added words 'deceased' and 'direct vicinity'. If Khizar(as) can reach anywhere to help random boys, our Masoomeen(as) are way toooooooooooo superior than Him, He comes to pay Salam to them everyday.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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I just hope you know I ain't reading none of your posts mate..

How did you ask question then? I know you read but can't face evidence. When you don;t find answers you say this to show you haven't read. Good for me, i got saved from the hassle of replying to more 'rubbish' ideas.

And for your kind information, i am not posting for you, i know i can't open the closed brains, but just doing it for the defense of the status of my Imams(as), my authorities, my 'Lords'. Got it?

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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Can anyone become Muslim with one testimony? lolz.

If they can't become Muslim without testifying the Risalah, how can they reach Allah directly?

Exactly. And the best form of prayer to God, i.e. namaz/salat is not complete without salutation on Rasool Allah and his progeny. Point to ponder.

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The over-whelming majority of lectures we get from Indo/Pak scholars during Muharram are unfortunately so not good at all.

The views and ideologies they try to propagate are hilarious. ( In a bad way)

The Majlis here is: ''ALI ALI ALI ALI ALI X100

LANAT LANAT LANAT X100

And finally some of their opinions regarding many issue which doesn't make sense at all.''

and that is it :(

English lecturers are just so amazing usually.

I have heard the famous Indo/Pak Scholars based in their home countries are much better, I seriously hope so though. Cause the ones who come here are not the ones I would look forward listening to at all.

However I know for a fact that the classical Indo/Pak Scolars are simply legendary.

Their material is even applicable and worth listening to today. Yes the audio quality maybe bad, but they were great thinkers. Very great thinkers indeed.

I wish to see those great scholars in today's age!

Edited by GreyMatter
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The over-whelming majority of lectures we get from Indo/Pak scholars during Muharram are unfortunately so not good at all.

The views and ideologies they try to propagate are hilarious. ( In a bad way)

The Majlis here is: ALI ALI ALI ALI ALI X100

LANAT LANAT LANAT X100

and that is it :(

English lecturers are just so amazing usually.

I have heard the famous Indo/Pak Scholars based in their home countries are much better, I seriously hope so though. Cause the ones who come here are not the ones I would look forward listening to at all.

That can be one of the best form of worship if it is done intellectually, i mean Ali(as) Ali(as)...as Prophet(saww) has said that ''zikr e Ali(as) is Worship''. If you want reference i can give you that. But may be the ones who come to your place are silly speakers, propagating self-invented stuff. But reciting of Fazail e Ahlebait(as) is one of the best virtue, and mean to please Allah almighty, along with cursing of their enemies. What i see, there are many best of ulema here who recites Fazail in very intellectual manner, which even sunnis find convincing.
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al-Qummi has written about the words of Allah: O you who believe! Fear Allah and seek means of nearness to Him.. , that (the Imam) said, "Come near Allah through the Imam."

The author says: That is, through obedience to the Imam.

Thought the emphasis there might help you in understanding the contents of your own post a bit better.

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That can be one of the best form of worship if it is done intellectually, i mean Ali(as) Ali(as)...as Prophet(saww) has said that ''zikr e Ali(as) is Worship''. If you want reference i can give you that. But may be the ones who come to your place are silly speakers, propagating self-invented stuff. But reciting of Fazail e Ahlebait(as) is one of the best virtue, and mean to please Allah almighty, along with cursing of their enemies. What i see, there are many best of ulema here who recites Fazail in very intellectual manner, which even sunnis find convincing.

The once I see are silly for sure.

They say to thank Imam Ali (as) when it rains. And that he controls the universe etc.

I have also learnt from them that it is not that bad if one drinks an alcoholic drink, as one may while sitting with friends.

We have a gift of Ahlul-Bayt, that is if we drink or commit adultery, we are still better than these Sunnis as our Imams will intercede for us and we are good to go.

What silly stuff are they teaching me, and especially the youths aged below 12?

This 21st of Ramadan i heard that those of speak English are animals, don't be a part of this animalistic culture, learn Urdu to be a better human being lol

I have also heard funny stuff regarding Lanat too.

Not people my age but some older than me do like this material :(

I know for a fact that the classical Indo/Pak Scholars were legends, so it is not like I am discrediting them. Just emphasizing the fact that we get some silly ones here unfortunately.

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Thought the emphasis there might help you in understanding the contents of your own post a bit better.

Whatever Imams(as) teach is from Allah, so why not direct obedience? Why their obedience? The thing is clear one has to go through this door to reach Him. If obedience to Him needs their obedience before, how can other things take the direct flight?

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Aslamalaykum,

@Kadhim

I was aware of that thankyou for emphasising, your point is?

Are you trying to tell me that you can't use Ahlul Bayt a.s as any other form of waseela?

Obedience to the Imams is one kind of waseela that the author has mentioned but it doesn't negate other forms, anyway I showed this to the brother confirming that the author of Al Mizaan mentioned the narration from that book also.

Also like Kaniz said if you don't show obedience to the Imams how are you to expect their waseela to come in use.

Edited by muslimunity1
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The once I see are silly for sure.

They say to thank Imam Ali (as) when it rains. And that he controls the universe etc.

I have also learnt from them that it is not that bad if one drinks an alcoholic drink, as one may while sitting with friends.

We have a gift of Ahlul-Bayt, that is if we drink or commit adultery, we are still better than these Sunnis as our Imams will intercede for us and we are good to go.

What silly stuff are they teaching me, and especially the youths aged below 12?

This 21st of Ramadan i heard that those of speak English are animals, don't be a part of this animalistic culture, learn Urdu to be a better human being lol

I have also heard funny stuff regarding Lanat too.

Not people my age but some older than me do like this material :(

I know for a fact that the classical Indo/Pak Scholars were legends, so it is not like I am discrediting them. Just emphasizing the fact that we get some silly ones here unfortunately.

LOLZZZZZZ...Who invite such speakers? They are seriously retarded. Don't they have any difference for halal/haram? Though i know there are some uneducated speakers here, who are known to spread such stuff, that whatever Shias do, they won't be held accountable, etc etc, but people are mature now. They don't take their irrational speeches seriously, infact the educated crowd don't even listen to them.But even i heard this for the first time that there are ones who call such haraam acts as 'not that bad'. Astaghfirullah'. Such speakers should be discouraged from reaching pulpit, so they may not be able to defame Shias, and effect any gullible mind, who already seek excuses.

The other things you told are also 'hilarious',lolz.

And there are ones who like such material? Its really sad.Western youth need more enlightened speakers not such fools.But i guess such uneducated, illogical people can be found in any country, or nationality. They are not restricted to sub-continent.As you pointed out, there were legendary ulema, and still there are. But they mostly address to Majaalis at home, with rare occasions abroad.

Edited by Kaniz e Zahra
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Whatever Imams(as) teach is from Allah, so why not direct obedience? Why their obedience? The thing is clear one has to go through this door to reach Him. If obedience to Him needs their obedience before, how can other things take the direct flight?

Because the imam (as) says that using them as a door consists in obeying them.

Because they order us to "take the direct route" in prayers.

You guys are so messed up in understanding that you quote things that directly contradict you, thinking they support you. It's amusing, in a sad way.

Aslamalaykum,

@Kadhim

I was aware of that thankyou for emphasising, your point is?

Are you trying to tell me that you can't use Ahlul Bayt a.s as any other form of waseela?

Obedience to the Imams is one kind of waseela that the author has mentioned but it doesn't negate other forms, anyway I showed this to the brother confirming that the author of Al Mizaan mentioned the narration from that book also.

Also like Kaniz said if you don't show obedience to the Imams how are you to expect their waseela to come in use.

No, it's saying that waseela through the imams = obedience to them, i.e. following the sunnah.

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LOLZZZZZZ...Who invite such speakers? They are seriously retarded. Don't they have any difference for halal/haram? Though i know there are some uneducated speakers here, who are known to spread such stuff, that whatever Shias do, they won't be held accountable, etc etc, but people are mature now. They don't take their irrational speeches seriously, infact the educated crowd don't even listen to them.But even i heard this for the first time that there are ones who call such haraam acts as 'not that bad'. Astaghfirullah'. Such speakers should be discouraged from reaching pulpit, so they may not be able to defame Shias, and effect any gullible mind, who already seek excuses.

The other things you told are also 'hilarious',lolz.

And there are ones who like such material? Its really sad.Western youth need more enlightened speakers not such fools.But i guess such uneducated, illogical people can be found in any country, or nationality. They are not restricted to sub-continent.As you pointed out, there were legendary ulema, and still there are. But they mostly address to Majaalis at home, with rare occasions abroad.

The group who appreciates such material is the 40+ crowd, and even then I do not now why would they.

Pakistani and Indian parents here have been taking their kids to English Majlises most of the time as they want their kids to learn something lol

I do not know why and how these speakers make their way into here in such numbers, I would be happy if people like Allama Talib Jauhari or people of his caliber ever come here for a few nights.

I believe the demand of these speakers is so great back home that they are better off there.

The only good Indo/Pak speakers are the ones who got banned from entering Pakistan due to political reasons 20 years ago, these are very few and are really amazing.

The large numbers of those who come here are so hilarious that I can be a comedian one day if I start telling the stuff they try to propagate

Same thing with Sunday schools here for youth; as a result, parents took their kids out of these Urdu speaking Madrasses and now everyone is happy to be at 'Khoja Masjids' here.

Edited by GreyMatter
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Saying 'ya Ali' whenever you see something amazing is a small example. Most Muslims would just say Allahu akbar or subhanallah.

(salam)

erm.. actually, we usually go "wah wah subhanallah." narey haidery and ya ali are just when we get extremely excited about things related to the Imam (as)

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