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In the Name of God بسم الله

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(salam) Just throwing something outhere,

Narrated 'Aisha:

Magic was worked on the Prophet so that he began to fancy that he was doing a thing which he was not actually doing. One day he invoked (Allah) for a long period and then said, "I feel that Allah has inspired me as how to cure myself. Two persons came to me (in my dream) and sat, one by my head and the other by my feet. One of them asked the other, "What is the ailment of this man?" The other replied, 'He has been bewitched" The first asked, 'Who has bewitched him?' The other replied, 'Lubaid bin Al-A'sam.' The first one asked, 'What material has he used?' The other replied, 'A comb, the hair gathered on it, and the outer skin of the pollen of the male date-palm.' The first asked, 'Where is that?' The other replied, 'It is in the well of Dharwan.' " So, the Prophet went out towards the well and then returned and said to me on his return, "Its date-palms (the date-palms near the well) are like the heads of the devils." I asked, "Did you take out those things with which the magic was worked?" He said, "No, for I have been cured by Allah and I am afraid that this action may spread evil amongst the people." Later on the well was filled up with earth.

So If what the sunnis claim is true then how come a "Good" muslim can never be inflicted by Sihr/Black Magic, yet here i see the greatest Prophet the greatest human Allahs most prized slave being hit by magic, isnt he the greatest muslim?? :donno: :donno: :cry:

When they had had their throw, Moses said: "What you have

brought is sorcery: Allah will surely make it of no effect: for Allah

Prospers not the work of those who make mischief. (10: 81)

"And Allah by His Words does prove and establish the Truth,

however much the Sinners may hate it!" (10: 82)

Then how can Allah allow magic to be used on the prophet? If he made it fail againts Moses? And here I have a hadith from sunni claiming the prophet to free a child from a jinn, yet the greatest prophet being inflicted by it personally? (wasalam)

I saw Allah's Messenger (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) do three things which no one before or after me saw. I went with him on a trip. On the way, we passed by a woman sitting at theroadside with a young boy. She called out, 'O Messenger of Allah, this boy is afflicted with atrial, and from him we have also been afflicted with a trial. I don't know how many times per dayhe is seized by fits.' He (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) said: 'Give him to me.' So she lifted him upto the Prophet.He (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) then placed the boy between himself and the middle of thesaddle, opened the boy's mouth and blew in it three times, saying, 'In the name of Allah, I amthe slave of Allah, get out, enemy of Allah!' Then he gave the boy back to her and said: 'Meet uson our return at this same place and inform us how he has fared.' We then went. On our return,we found her in the same place with three sheep. When he said to her, 'How has your sonfared?' She replied: 'By the One who sent you with the truth, we have not detected anything(unusual) in his behavior up to this time...

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This reminds me of this story I read in the news a few years ago. Someone was claimed to have been using black magic. They had chicken heads in their house and strange alters n such. Turns out they were all highed up on drugs and the whole thing was a sham. They ended up overdosing and the guy got locked up for poisoning his fellow black magic people.

The point is, we should establish that this magic is even real before interpreting stories of its use. I have never seen any black magic and I doubt anyone on this website has. The worlds greatest minds have 0 understanding of how it may exist or how to use it as well. Which leads me to believe these could just be tall tales of their time.

So if they were tall tales, the questions you have asked wouldnt be very useful.

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This reminds me of this story I read in the news a few years ago. Someone was claimed to have been using black magic. They had chicken heads in their house and strange alters n such. Turns out they were all highed up on drugs and the whole thing was a sham. They ended up overdosing and the guy got locked up for poisoning his fellow black magic people.

The point is, we should establish that this magic is even real before interpreting stories of its use. I have never seen any black magic and I doubt anyone on this website has. The worlds greatest minds have 0 understanding of how it may exist or how to use it as well. Which leads me to believe these could just be tall tales of their time.

So if they were tall tales, the questions you have asked wouldnt be very useful.

Magic is in all 3 Main branches of religion, In Islam its even in our quran "It was the shaitan(devils) that disbelieved they taught men magic" And since our prophet Muhmmad is the greatest human ever (as we muslims believe) how can he be inflicted by magic?

Now since your not sunni or shia (no offense at all) you've never seen sihr or magic before I suggest going to India, or even the famous Criss angel who levitates infront of hundreds of people with no sign of trickery, YES there is trick magic even to the point where it cant be explained but there is real magic (not like the ones you see in Tv) Im talking shaitan(devil) assisting him and jinn means hidden one which means you cant see him so its like an invisble demon assisting you. Why would the shaitan go out of his way to help you and make it seem like you have powers, it benefits him wayy more as most scholars suggest the magician has to worship that demon, and the people that watch magic start forgetting about God its like putting a veil on the people and making them insist this man has powers and some even suggest him being god (astagfirallah)

All over the east there are people some even claim to be the mahdi (by doing magic) which makes people come off track of the real islam, and then the guy teaches his own religion and they end up dying as kafirs, magicians that do some serious crazy stuff from making a car disappear-to levitating or disappearing care to explain it? Camera tricks? Not possible its happening infront of you. Helicopter? I have eyes i can see

Edited by OneOfTheSyyeds
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  • Advanced Member

Aisha is well known liar and hadith fabricator

Aisha is well known liar and hadith fabricator

(salam) Yes I agree thats what im trying to bring out to the sunni brothers and sisters out there but so far no replies :cry: :cry: (wasalam)
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Salam

Yes brother I understand

+ they will not reply lol :D

:DD I will wait patiently! So let them send one who will accept my challenge!....Please T_T :mellow: :mellow:
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Ibn Idris (d. 1202 CE) was of the opinion that the sorcerers have no real powers, which means that most of what we hear about witchcraft and magic does not exist. The significance of magicians in the Qur'an is that these people make the claim to have a special power that they don't. By this interpretation, no one can actually "bewitch" anyone (especially not a prophet), and the sin of sorcery is the claim to supernatural albilities - actually blowing on knots has no "power". Though there are some spiritual forces, such as jinn and the eye of envy, which can inflict harm and they have been mentioned in the Qur'an and hadiths (see Surat al-Falaq).

Here's Ibn Idris' take:

ومن قامت عليه البينة بالسحر، وكان مسلما وجب عليه القتل، فإن كان كافرا لم يكن عليه إلا التأديب والعقوبة المردعة، لأن ما هو عليه من الكفر أعظم من السحر. ولا حقيقة للسحر، وإنما هو تخيل وشعبذة، وعند بعض المخالفين إن له حقيقة، ولا خلاف بينهم إن تعليمه وتعلمه وفعله محرم، لقوله تعالى: " ولكن الشياطين كفروا يعلمون الناس السحر " (5) فذم على تعليم السحر. وروى ابن عباس أنه قال: ليس منا من سحر أو سحر له، وليس منا من تكهن أو تكهن له، وليس منا من تطير أو تطير له. والرسول عليه السلام ما سحر (1) عندنا بلا خلاف، لقوله تعالى " والله يعصمك من الناس " (2) وعند بعض المخالفين إنه سحر، وذلك بخلاف التنزيل المجيد.

And whoso upon the evidence has been established of sorcery (sihr), and he is a Muslim, his execution is wajib. And if he is a kafir, then there is not upon him but punishment and deterring retribution, for what he is upon of kufr is greater than sorcery. And there is no reality to sorcery, and it is only imagination and sleight of hand. And amongst some of the opponents (i.e. Sunnis) it has a reality. And there is no difference (of opinion) between them that its instruction, and its learning, and its act is forbidden, due to His, ta`ala, saying “but the Satans disbelieved, teaching the people sorcery” so He censured the teaching of sorcery. And Ibn `Abbas narrated that he said “Not from us is one who does sorcery or has sorcery done for him, and not from us is one who does divination or has divination done for him, and not from us is one who augurs or has (an omen) augured for him.” And the Messenger (pbuh) was not bewitched (i.e. had sihr done upon him) according to us with no difference (of opinion), due to His, ta`ala, saying “And Allah will protect you from mankind”. And according to some of the opponents he was bewitched. And that is in opposition to the glorious revelation.

And here's a hadith from al-Baqir (as):

4- طب، [طب الأئمة عليهم السلام] إبراهيم البيطار قال حدثنا محمد بن عيسى عن يونس بن عبد الرحمن و يقال له يونس المصلي لكثرة صلاته عن ابن مسكان عن زرارة قال قال أبو جعفر الباقر عليه الصلاة و السلام إن السحرة لم يسلطوا على شي‏ء إلا على العين .

Tibb al-A'imma - Ibrahim al-Baytar said: Muhammad b. `Isa narrated to us from Yunus b. `Abd ar-Rahman - and he is called Yunus the prayer due to the abundance of his salat - from Ibn Muskan from Zurara. He said: Abu Ja`far al-Baqir عليه الصلاة و السلام said: Verily the sorcerers have no power over anything except for the eye.

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Sunni actually never say by tongue that Prophet (pbuh) was not superior to other Prophets (pbuh) but yet they tend to prove it by their faith. Similarly, they say that Prophet (pbuh) did not know till the age of forty that He (pbuh) is a prophet (pbuh) while on the other hand we read about Jesus a.s that he declared his a.s prophet hood when he was in the lap of his mother Maryam a.s.

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Sunni actually never say by tongue that Prophet (pbuh) was not superior to other Prophets (pbuh) but yet they tend to prove it by their faith. Similarly, they say that Prophet (pbuh) did not know till the age of forty that He (pbuh) is a prophet (pbuh) while on the other hand we read about Jesus a.s that he declared his a.s prophet hood when he was in the lap of his mother Maryam a.s.

Indeed my friend! That's why I'm trying to bring a debate on but when they see their mistake they leave that issue in their d

een alone so any sunnis still wanna continue D:?

Edited by OneOfTheSyyeds
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Now since your not sunni or shia (no offense at all) you've never seen sihr or magic before I suggest going to India, or even the famous Criss angel who levitates infront of hundreds of people with no sign of trickery,

This guy?

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Criss_Angel

Some random hobo from Vegas? Hes a magician by occupation. That doesnt mean his magic is real, it means he practices "magic" in the sense of mirrors and camera edits and fancy tricks with tying knots. It doesnt mean the man can literally fly.

have you ever seen this show? You should watch this video. This Magician has demonstrated hundreds of tricks, and has fooled many many people, but at the end of the episode, he always shows how he performs the trick. And there is never anything magical about them. They are just games people play.

Edited by iDevonian
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@OneOfTheSyyeds

This Verse...

When they had had their throw, Moses said: "What you have

brought is sorcery: Allah will surely make it of no effect: for Allah

Prospers not the work of those who make mischief. (10: 81)

"And Allah by His Words does prove and establish the Truth,

however much the Sinners may hate it!" (10: 82)

Narrated 'Aisha:

Magic was worked on the Prophet so that he began to fancy that he was doing a thing which he was not actually doing. One day he invoked (Allah) for a long period and then said, "I feel that Allah has inspired me as how to cure myself. Two persons came to me (in my dream) and sat, one by my head and the other by my feet. One of them asked the other, "What is the ailment of this man?" The other replied, 'He has been bewitched" The first asked, 'Who has bewitched him?' The other replied, 'Lubaid bin Al-A'sam.' The first one asked, 'What material has he used?' The other replied, 'A comb, the hair gathered on it, and the outer skin of the pollen of the male date-palm.' The first asked, 'Where is that?' The other replied, 'It is in the well of Dharwan.' " So, the Prophet went out towards the well and then returned and said to me on his return, "Its date-palms (the date-palms near the well) are like the heads of the devils." I asked, "Did you take out those things with which the magic was worked?" He said, "No, for I have been cured by Allah and I am afraid that this action may spread evil amongst the people." Later on the well was filled up with earth.

Read both Again, Atleast Ten Times...And Hopefully you shall see the Failure of Magic...

Now Jot Down here The Sunnis Claim..I know A few , Can get back the Info from them...

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Narrated 'Aisha:

Magic was worked on the Prophet so that he began to fancy that he was doing a thing which he was not actually doing. One day he invoked (Allah) for a long period and then said, "I feel that Allah has inspired me as how to cure myself. Two persons came to me (in my dream) and sat, one by my head and the other by my feet. One of them asked the other, "What is the ailment of this man?" The other replied, 'He has been bewitched" The first asked, 'Who has bewitched him?' The other replied, 'Lubaid bin Al-A'sam.' The first one asked, 'What material has he used?' The other replied, 'A comb, the hair gathered on it, and the outer skin of the pollen of the male date-palm.' The first asked, 'Where is that?' The other replied, 'It is in the well of Dharwan.' " So, the Prophet went out towards the well and then returned and said to me on his return, "Its date-palms (the date-palms near the well) are like the heads of the devils." I asked, "Did you take out those things with which the magic was worked?" He said, "No, for I have been cured by Allah and I am afraid that this action may spread evil amongst the people." Later on the well was filled up with earth.

we believe that only small part of magic affected holy prophet pbuh and prophet was cured by the grace of Allah before it completely worked on holy prophet.

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This guy?

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Criss_Angel

Some random hobo from Vegas? Hes a magician by occupation. That doesnt mean his magic is real, it means he practices "magic" in the sense of mirrors and camera edits and fancy tricks with tying knots. It doesnt mean the man can literally fly.

have you ever seen this show? You should watch this video. This Magician has demonstrated hundreds of tricks, and has fooled many many people, but at the end of the episode, he always shows how he performs the trick. And there is never anything magical about them. They are just games people play.

Like i said there is fake magic eve to a point where it looks real but what about when it happens infront of hundreds of people, and also pretend you were in my boots it would be hard to debate with a atheist againts a person that has a religion that claims magic is real lol it wouldnt be the place where i begin to debate, soon ill start a debate in the atheism thread.

@OneOfTheSyyeds

This Verse...

When they had had their throw, Moses said: "What you have

brought is sorcery: Allah will surely make it of no effect: for Allah

Prospers not the work of those who make mischief. (10: 81)

"And Allah by His Words does prove and establish the Truth,

however much the Sinners may hate it!" (10: 82)

Narrated 'Aisha:

Magic was worked on the Prophet so that he began to fancy that he was doing a thing which he was not actually doing. One day he invoked (Allah) for a long period and then said, "I feel that Allah has inspired me as how to cure myself. Two persons came to me (in my dream) and sat, one by my head and the other by my feet. One of them asked the other, "What is the ailment of this man?" The other replied, 'He has been bewitched" The first asked, 'Who has bewitched him?' The other replied, 'Lubaid bin Al-A'sam.' The first one asked, 'What material has he used?' The other replied, 'A comb, the hair gathered on it, and the outer skin of the pollen of the male date-palm.' The first asked, 'Where is that?' The other replied, 'It is in the well of Dharwan.' " So, the Prophet went out towards the well and then returned and said to me on his return, "Its date-palms (the date-palms near the well) are like the heads of the devils." I asked, "Did you take out those things with which the magic was worked?" He said, "No, for I have been cured by Allah and I am afraid that this action may spread evil amongst the people." Later on the well was filled up with earth.

Read both Again, Atleast Ten Times...And Hopefully you shall see the Failure of Magic...

Now Jot Down here The Sunnis Claim..I know A few , Can get back the Info from them...

Of course it failed but how could it happen in the 1st place, the prophet was under the protection but HOW could magic inflict him in the 1st place heres something Allah said about the Prophet "Given the knowledge of the unseen (3:179)" so how could a jinn bewitch him as Aisha said?

first define magic!

Its the ability to use jinn to bewitch one or more people and either to confuse them or to weaken their state of mind Sihr comes in many forms

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Like i said there is fake magic eve to a point where it looks real but what about when it happens infront of hundreds of people, and also pretend you were in my boots it would be hard to debate with a atheist againts a person that has a religion that claims magic is real lol it wouldnt be the place where i begin to debate, soon ill start a debate in the atheism thread.

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Thats fine, no worries Ill let it go. But also, try to stand in my shoes. Think about it, have you ever personally witnessed this magic? What if it were just stories made up, or tricks, or stories made by people who were tricked etc. But, you dont even need to stand in my shoes to ask those questions, just be a skeptic.

and wht do u call this ?

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and wht do u call this ?

Looks like a baby that has words written on his leg once a week by his parents. If it happens once a week, it should be pretty easy to record it right? And if it were so easy, wouldnt we all be able to see the words actually appearing on the babies leg?

The answer is yes to both of these questions. However if you pay close attention, you will see that the video doesnt actually show a recording of the words appearing. And that is because the story is not true.

Its just like the stories of the statue of Marry or a picture of Marry crying. Everyone crowds around it like oh oh, the statue has tears of blood coming out of it! And yet, never does anyone ever actually look into it, the story dies in about 2 days. Nobody collects a sample of the blood. Nobody lifts the picture up to see whats behind it. Nothing is ever done.

And again, that is because the story is simply not true.

And you should be asking these questions too. Have you asked yourself, if the words appear on this babies leg once a week, why have they not recorded it actually happening? You should.

And it shouldnt take me to point this out. You guys should be proactive in criticizing your own beliefs. This is how you seperate truth from falsehood.

The a phrase we use in science, its, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. So the claim that a baby has Quran verses appearing on its leg are extraordinary. So we should ask ourselves, what is the extraordinary evidence? Ok, well...we see the words on the babies leg. Ok thats a nice start. But how did they get there is the real question? Did they magically appear? Did the parents write them? Is the older brother writing them? Is some stranger sneaking in the house and writing them? Is a cousin writing them? etc etc.

So, in order to narrow down what the truth really is, we need more evidence. And in the modern age of cell phones, where you can record things with the click of a button. Once a week, if this event occurs, it should be very easy to catch it in the act. And that would be the evidence you need to determine truth. But that evidence simply doesnt exist, because odds are it is the cousin or the brother or the parents, and they simply dont want people to see that it is them. They want to own that miracle baby just as many want to be the next Mahdi.

Edited by iDevonian
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  • Advanced Member

Amazingly all the glorious sahaba were pious, brave, and immune to magic but the Holy Prophet (saww) was (mazhallah) suicidal, scared and a victim of sorcery.

That's the real magic going on here.

ALI

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Amazingly all the glorious sahaba were pious, brave, and immune to magic but the Holy Prophet (saww) was (mazhallah) suicidal, scared and a victim of sorcery.

That's the real magic going on here.

ALI

Exatcly what im trying to bring out D: they constantly degrade the prophet and his teachings yet when shown the evidence the so called "sunnah to the prophet" go silent :yaali: :yaali:

Can you please cite the source for the hadith in the first post?

Sorry for late reply bro Hadith [Musnad Ahmad (vol: 4, p. 170)

and wht do u call this ?

Miracles happen everyday "And which of the favors of your lord will you deny?" :D :D

Thats fine, no worries Ill let it go. But also, try to stand in my shoes. Think about it, have you ever personally witnessed this magic? What if it were just stories made up, or tricks, or stories made by people who were tricked etc. But, you dont even need to stand in my shoes to ask those questions, just be a skeptic.

I absolutely see your point bro, sometime this week ill start a debate in atheism thread about the stuff that would make more sense and a good debate :D, so far D: been busy Edited by OneOfTheSyyeds
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