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New Shia Party Emerging

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New Shia party emerging

ISLAMABAD, April 23: A new kid is ready to enter the sectarian political bloc – Majlis Wahdat Muslimeen (MWM), and observers feel it may challenge the mainstream Shia political group led by Allama Sajid Naqvi.

The aggressive posture adopted by the MWM in recent days in Islamabad to highlight sectarian killings has brought the group to the forefront within the Shia community.

On April 12, the party refused to vacate the Parade Lane outside parliament, even after the camp established by Amina Janjua for the recovery of missing people was relocated by the authorities. Similarly, the Ahle Sunnat wal Jamaat – ASJ (formerly the Sipah-i-Sahaba Pakistan – SSP) was not allowed to hold its protest camp there.

The following day, MWM proceeded to hold Friday prayers at Parade Lane – a first ever for any group let alone a Shia one.

An official of the interior ministry confirmed that the MWM leadership even turned down an offer to negotiate with Interior Minister Senator Rehman Malik on Friday, April 13.

Similarly, its seemingly unknown leaders have gained greater recognition among the authorities – the MWM leaders were invited to the National Assembly Standing Committee on Human Rights to speak about the killings of women and children in Chilas while no-one from the Allama Sajid Naqvi group was invited.

“We are not terrorists and neither do we believe in destabilising the country and its systems,” said MWM secretary general Allama Nasir Abbas. “It is our right to protest.”

He added that his party was entering politics in ‘national interest’, and MWM leadership plans to announce it at a rally in Lahore on July 1.

The MWM emerged in 2007 to highlight the woes of ordinary citizens in general and the Shia residents of Kurrum agency in particular where Parachinar had been cut off from the rest of the country for months on end.

The party was still in its infancy stage as its organisational structure was established in April 2011, with the highest post of secretary general going to Allama Nasir Abbas, followed by deputy secretary general to Allama Amin Shaheedi. Their three-year term expires in April 2013, while the highest forum in MWM, Shoora-e-Aali, is composed of 10 ulema with one vote each.

However, what has allowed the group to gain strength is political vacuum in mainstream Shia politics due to the low profile adopted by the Shia Ulema Council (SUC) – a group led by Allama Sajid Naqvi in the past five years since the demise of Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal.

Allama Sajid Naqvi is a well-known name in politics, and he took over the TJP in 1988 after the assassination of his predecessor Allama Arif Hussaini.The TJP was banned in 2002 for three years; later its reincarnation Tehrik-i-Islami was also banned leading to a third avatar Shia Ulema Council (SUC).

After Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal (MMA) was formed, Allama Sajid Ali Naqvi became its vice president. But when the MMA disintegrated, party activities slowed down – partly due to the high risks of sectarian attacks, which have become more brutal than in the past.

Meanwhile, the spokesman of the SUC, Maulana Ashfaq Waheedi, said that Allama Sajid Naqvi is Quaid-i-Millat-i-Jaferia (leader of the Shia nation) and has played a key role in forging unity among Shia-Sunni brethren.

Friction within the SUC is more visible in Karachi, Quetta, Gilgit-Baltistan, Kohat, Parachinar, D.I. Khan and western districts of Punjab.

“At least the MWM was doing something by highlighting the routine killings,” said Qasim Ali of North Nazimabad, Karachi, a one-time supporter of TJP.

Another blow to the SUC was the traffic accident of Allama Sajid Naqvi’s trusted comrade, nephew and son-in-law Maulana Jalil Naqvi around two years ago. The accident left him paralysed, which has in turn paralysed the party that he handled.

“The best solution for Quaid sahib (Allama Sajid Naqvi) is to delegate powers to somebody else now as everything revolves around his family,” said Amjad Sadaf, a diehard party worker from Dhok Ratta, Rawalpindi.

Due to this communication and organisational gap, Allama Sajid Naqvi has lost support among the party cadre and the urban middle class.

“Currently there are other internal rifts too – between clergy and the non-clergy,” said Chaudhri Bashir Ahmed, former president TJP, Rawalpindi city. “In other words there is a gap between the revolutionary / progressive minded people and the traditionalist.”

The ‘traditionalists’ within the Shia community are generally the clergy from rural areas who have only madressah education.

The ulema conference organised by the SUC in Islamabad on April 18 this year also witnessed a heavy presence of traditional clergy from Punjab with limited participation of urban-based workers and clergy holding non-religious degrees such as doctors and engineers.

Such internal rifts and the growing resentment among the party supporters, observers feel, can help the MWM attract the middle order of SUC.

Earlier, the main Shia party lost workers and members when Sipah Muhammad parted ways with TJP. The main reason then too was Allama Sajid Naqvi’s soft stance on the ‘enemy’, a euphemism used for SSP or ASJ.

“When we started to retaliate against the Sipah-i-Sahaba, the Allama joined them in the Milli Yakjehti Council in 1995. Later when they were in trouble due to international politics, he joined them in the MMA and now when Shias are being killed all over country nobody is coming up,” said a former area commander of Sipah Muhammad, who prefers not to be named due to pending court cases.

This is also a party that is embracing the social media and other modern forms of communication. The younger lot in MWM, which includes many students from Parachinar, are using the internet to highlight party activities, including footage of public gatherings in Karachi and Jhang.

http://dawn.com/2012/04/24/new-shia-party-emerging/

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New Shia party emerging

ISLAMABAD, April 23: A new kid is ready to enter the sectarian political bloc – Majlis Wahdat Muslimeen (MWM), and observers feel it may challenge the mainstream Shia political group led by Allama Sajid Naqvi.

The aggressive posture adopted by the MWM in recent days in Islamabad to highlight sectarian killings has brought the group to the forefront within the Shia community.

On April 12, the party refused to vacate the Parade Lane outside parliament, even after the camp established by Amina Janjua for the recovery of missing people was relocated by the authorities. Similarly, the Ahle Sunnat wal Jamaat – ASJ (formerly the Sipah-i-Sahaba Pakistan – SSP) was not allowed to hold its protest camp there.

The following day, MWM proceeded to hold Friday prayers at Parade Lane – a first ever for any group let alone a Shia one.

An official of the interior ministry confirmed that the MWM leadership even turned down an offer to negotiate with Interior Minister Senator Rehman Malik on Friday, April 13.

Similarly, its seemingly unknown leaders have gained greater recognition among the authorities – the MWM leaders were invited to the National Assembly Standing Committee on Human Rights to speak about the killings of women and children in Chilas while no-one from the Allama Sajid Naqvi group was invited.

“We are not terrorists and neither do we believe in destabilising the country and its systems,” said MWM secretary general Allama Nasir Abbas. “It is our right to protest.”

He added that his party was entering politics in ‘national interest’, and MWM leadership plans to announce it at a rally in Lahore on July 1.

The MWM emerged in 2007 to highlight the woes of ordinary citizens in general and the Shia residents of Kurrum agency in particular where Parachinar had been cut off from the rest of the country for months on end.

The party was still in its infancy stage as its organisational structure was established in April 2011, with the highest post of secretary general going to Allama Nasir Abbas, followed by deputy secretary general to Allama Amin Shaheedi. Their three-year term expires in April 2013, while the highest forum in MWM, Shoora-e-Aali, is composed of 10 ulema with one vote each.

However, what has allowed the group to gain strength is political vacuum in mainstream Shia politics due to the low profile adopted by the Shia Ulema Council (SUC) – a group led by Allama Sajid Naqvi in the past five years since the demise of Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal.

Allama Sajid Naqvi is a well-known name in politics, and he took over the TJP in 1988 after the assassination of his predecessor Allama Arif Hussaini.The TJP was banned in 2002 for three years; later its reincarnation Tehrik-i-Islami was also banned leading to a third avatar Shia Ulema Council (SUC).

After Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal (MMA) was formed, Allama Sajid Ali Naqvi became its vice president. But when the MMA disintegrated, party activities slowed down – partly due to the high risks of sectarian attacks, which have become more brutal than in the past.

Meanwhile, the spokesman of the SUC, Maulana Ashfaq Waheedi, said that Allama Sajid Naqvi is Quaid-i-Millat-i-Jaferia (leader of the Shia nation) and has played a key role in forging unity among Shia-Sunni brethren.

Friction within the SUC is more visible in Karachi, Quetta, Gilgit-Baltistan, Kohat, Parachinar, D.I. Khan and western districts of Punjab.

“At least the MWM was doing something by highlighting the routine killings,” said Qasim Ali of North Nazimabad, Karachi, a one-time supporter of TJP.

Another blow to the SUC was the traffic accident of Allama Sajid Naqvi’s trusted comrade, nephew and son-in-law Maulana Jalil Naqvi around two years ago. The accident left him paralysed, which has in turn paralysed the party that he handled.

“The best solution for Quaid sahib (Allama Sajid Naqvi) is to delegate powers to somebody else now as everything revolves around his family,” said Amjad Sadaf, a diehard party worker from Dhok Ratta, Rawalpindi.

Due to this communication and organisational gap, Allama Sajid Naqvi has lost support among the party cadre and the urban middle class.

“Currently there are other internal rifts too – between clergy and the non-clergy,” said Chaudhri Bashir Ahmed, former president TJP, Rawalpindi city. “In other words there is a gap between the revolutionary / progressive minded people and the traditionalist.”

The ‘traditionalists’ within the Shia community are generally the clergy from rural areas who have only madressah education.

The ulema conference organised by the SUC in Islamabad on April 18 this year also witnessed a heavy presence of traditional clergy from Punjab with limited participation of urban-based workers and clergy holding non-religious degrees such as doctors and engineers.

Such internal rifts and the growing resentment among the party supporters, observers feel, can help the MWM attract the middle order of SUC.

Earlier, the main Shia party lost workers and members when Sipah Muhammad parted ways with TJP. The main reason then too was Allama Sajid Naqvi’s soft stance on the ‘enemy’, a euphemism used for SSP or ASJ.

“When we started to retaliate against the Sipah-i-Sahaba, the Allama joined them in the Milli Yakjehti Council in 1995. Later when they were in trouble due to international politics, he joined them in the MMA and now when Shias are being killed all over country nobody is coming up,” said a former area commander of Sipah Muhammad, who prefers not to be named due to pending court cases.

This is also a party that is embracing the social media and other modern forms of communication. The younger lot in MWM, which includes many students from Parachinar, are using the internet to highlight party activities, including footage of public gatherings in Karachi and Jhang.

http://dawn.com/2012...party-emerging/

It is the need of the time and in my humble view MWM has good leadership which will not betray us. A Shia political party is need of the time. Whether they get any seat or not is immaterial but yet they can make a pressure group and may contest elections alongwith mainstream political parties to have their voice heard in Parliament.

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Some action is better than nothing at this point. Any action that can help highlight this ongoing issue can get an X amount of the Sunni population to start taking action against these Wahabis and militants. It's better to have some people on your side rather than nothing.

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Said Naqvi and the cadre has done nothing, nothing I repeat, zilch, zero, nada, for the overall benefit for Shias. Said Naqvi, with all due respect has not been the hier of Shaheed Arif ul Husaini who was last like Musa Sadr of Lebanon.

MWM emerging is a very promising sign for Shias of Pakistan. What MWM has done has never been done by Pakistani Shias. MWM is bringing the Shia of Pakistan from "humbly demanding my rights" to "forcefully but peacefully taking my rights". They are making Shia presence of Pakistan known in Pakistan. With 50 million strong Shias of Pakistan, if MWM plays it's cards right under the guidance of poltical wits of our brethren in Iraq and Lebanon, they may very well nip this wahabi [Edited Out] right here in Soith Asia.

Support MWM, this is run by new generation of Shia ulema, I can assure you they won't let you down.

Welcome the "red Shiaism", bye bye "black Shiaism". Colors of Pakistani politics are going to change fast inshAllah.

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This is good news. Hats off to these guys.

I have been repeating in the past that Sajid Naqvi's actions, or inactions to be precise, clearly indicate that he is a incompetent corrupt man who sold out the entire Shia nation of Pakistan long ago. We don't need a "quaid" or whatever who does nothing to help the community. (With all due respect )

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I agree with WFH, you can’t beg for your rights. You have to forcefully demand them or take them back.

Put all your effort and energy on a single goal – the security and the betterment of Pakistani Shias.

I wish you guys the best.

Edited by Gypsy
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Nasir Abbas was the invited speaker for Muharram at our imambargah couple of years ago. He was noticeably political (off-mimbar), seemed very focused about Shi'ah grievances in Pakistan though.

His majalis were (IMO) so-so but maybe his mind was elsewhere

ALI

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This is good news. Hats off to these guys.

I have been repeating in the past that Sajid Naqvi's actions, or inactions to be precise, clearly indicate that he is a incompetent corrupt man who sold out the entire Shia nation of Pakistan long ago. We don't need a "quaid" or whatever who does nothing to help the community. (With all due respect ™ )

What respect....this leech of a man has been sucking the shias of this nation for more than a decade. Bedding with our enemies, keeping mum when our blood was being spilled. The greatest good that Khamenai can do for the shias of Pakistan would be to disown this man in public. So his gang can give it a rest to the whole numainda e wali e amr bs.

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What respect....this leech of a man has been sucking the shias of this nation for more than a decade. Bedding with our enemies, keeping mum when our blood was being spilled. The greatest good that Khamenai can do for the shias of Pakistan would be to disown this man in public. So his gang can give it a rest to the whole numainda e wali e amr bs.

Yes this was discussed in the inner circles of MWM. But they don't want to antagonize anyone just yet. The younger generation Qom oriented ulema already had a hard time putting life in these lifeless souls, and don't want to create more hardships for them just yet. Sajid Naqvi and his cadre will eventually diminish anyway from the political Shia scene.

Disowning may not be necessary as MWM would soon become the only choice of Pakistani Shia political representation. MWM is being watched very closely by a lots of embassies in Islamabad so don't want to say more.

Here's the key test for them. Their next big rally is in Lahore where they want to bring out more than a million Shias on street. Challenge is, this is playing in Punjabi heartland and man.. don't get me started about those Punjabis. I just hope they come out.

Nasir Abbass is a Punjabi himself but managed to gather half a million in Urdu speaking Karachi. Once Karachiites endorsed him, you know he has definite political mattle. Sajid Naqvi was never endorsed by high standards demanding Karachi Shias.

**** Now in defense of Sajid Naqvi, he was in this vicious cycle that he had distanced himself from reality that he really didn't had much support from Shia youth which in turn made Shia youth disinterested. So basically he was just filling in the leaderhip gap till someone more foreceful and with more political wits came out, Nasir Abbas in this case. It just took Paki Shias almost 2 decaded unfortunately.

May Allah hasten the coming of Last Imam (as) and protect the Shia ulema of Pakistan who are backing this MWM.

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^ I wouldn't like to comment on the Punjabi, urdu speaking bit. But tell you what, I was in that half a million gathering of urdu speakings, and have a fair idea about the ethnic representation in the crowd.

Coming on to the rest of your post. You are mistaken if you think that Sajid Naqvi is just waiting for some other leader, and as soon as one appears he would retire. Like an old greedy monarch, he will do everything in his power to hold onto his position. He already has shown his dislike towards MWM when he refused to take part in the Qurant o Ahlebait conference in Karachi. And now take a look at this. Shahanshah Naqvi, Sajid's newest boy toy. Just see the tone he is using for MWM.

As far as MWM's leadership is concerned, honestly I am not satisfied with Allama Nasir Abbas. Having listened/met him a number of times in Islamabad-Rawalpindi I dont believe he has in him to make a leader. This is where I think Allama Hassan Zafar can play an important role. In my view, under Allama Hassan Zafar's leadership MWM can really make an impact on the national stage.

Here is the ad for the Lahore rally. Inshallah its a success.

AqeDV7HCQAAJdJt.jpg

Edited by doobybrother
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inshAllah Lahore will be a success...

It is given that the first five or six leaders of MWM will be assasinated anyway, sooner or later, if MWM indeed starts becoming a political force to reckon with. Talking to one of them, they know it, and they have already made a list of who will follow who in case of a shahadat.

As long as they are supported by forward looking ulema, this movement is not going anywhere but up inshAllah. I've heard political ulema of Pakistan, Hasan Zafar Naqvi, Jawad Naqvi, and others. This is not the tone that Pakis used to hear from Shia leadership for last 20 years or so. This is new breed and for them "humiliation no more". I just hope the Shia masses support them.

Sajid Naqvi will either diminish pretty soon or take a more agressive posture. He has no other choice. He may play the spoiler though due to his low political wit.

Do you think if he had ever been on the payroll of ISI or IB?

Edited by Waiting for HIM
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inshAllah Lahore will be a success...

It is given that the first five or six leaders of MWM will be assasinated anyway, sooner or later, if MWM indeed starts becoming a political force to reckon with. Talking to one of them, they know it, and they have already made a list of who will follow who in case of a shahadat.

As long as they are supported by forward looking ulema, this movement is not going anywhere but up inshAllah. I've heard political ulema of Pakistan, Hasan Zafar Naqvi, Jawad Naqvi, and others. This is not the tone that Pakis used to hear from Shia leadership for last 20 years or so. This is new breed and for them "humiliation no more". I just hope the Shia masses support them.

Sajid Naqvi will either diminish pretty soon or take a more agressive posture. He has no other choice. He may play the spoiler though due to his low political wit.

Do you think if he had ever been on the payroll of ISI or IB?

Perhpas, but maybe he is just plain incompetent.

Either way, this guy's disinterest in the affairs of Pakistani shias has been criminal.

Edited by doobybrother
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MWM should limit itself to being a pressure group and an organisation to rally Shia, and Sunnis, at the grassroots. If they try to become a political party and contest elections, it is going to spell their end.

No sectarian party can or has ever managed a foothold in the parliament. Despite it being a country with deep sectarian divisions, politics in Pakistan are decidedly non-sectarian. If you want to make a political mark, create a secular, all-inclusive party, and do your politics around issues not sects.

Moreover, I want to add that raising the issue of Shia killing and oppression of other minorities and/or opposition to establishment's pro-West policies don't have to be, in fact should not be, in religious language. The Lahore rally is dubbed as "Quran-o-Sunnat Conference". Why? Educated, learned people in cities and those with non-sectarian outlook are wary of religious rhetoric and won't buy anything that is sold to them in the garb of religion.

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MWM should limit itself to being a pressure group and an organisation to rally Shia, and Sunnis, at the grassroots. If they try to become a political party and contest elections, it is going to spell their end.

No sectarian party can or has ever managed a foothold in the parliament. Despite it being a country with deep sectarian divisions, politics in Pakistan are decidedly non-sectarian. If you want to make a political mark, create a secular, all-inclusive party, and do your politics around issues not sects.

Moreover, I want to add that raising the issue of Shia killing and oppression of other minorities and/or opposition to establishment's pro-West policies don't have to be, in fact should not be, in religious language. The Lahore rally is dubbed as "Quran-o-Sunnat Conference". Why? Educated, learned people in cities and those with non-sectarian outlook are wary of religious rhetoric and won't buy anything that is sold to them in the garb of religion.

Agree whole heartedly, Pakistani Shias are not going to vote for MWM (neither should they) because they will be overwhelmed by the non-religious votes. Keeping the power posture is more critical than exposing your weakness by going to polls. Same as if you could fill Lahore rally with people from Multan, do so. In power politics of Pakistan, what matters is how much you could raise the price of Shia blood on any given day? Power display at voting polls is too pre-mature for Pakistani Shias. It should come, but not now, a decade later, may be.

Right now, they should rather focus on, if they could shut Islamabad down with say 100,000 people surrounding GHQ or Islamabad Red Zone for a few weeks if anymore Shia blood spills.

Edited by Waiting for HIM
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Just be sure that this is a party of Imam Aliyy and his philosophy and teachings and the example of Imam Hussein and Imam Zein Ul Abidin and other Imams in their UNITY and RESTRAINT as exemplified in thier HISTORICAL decisions.

Make sure, that the party is not the party of SHAITAN.

in the GARB of PIETY.

The best method is to gently advocate and ask for the right and justice FOR ALL !!!

Do NOT make it a SHIA issue. It is TRIBALISM !!!

It will only lead to the OPPOSITE of what you want, ie love and security, such is the OPERATIONAL logic of group human psychology.

Tribalism begets tribalism, as you have seen the fate of MQM.

Talk gently, genuinely and politely.

as the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini did.

He did not bring success - Allah (the almighty and exalted) gave him success.

If you want success, you will get failure.

If you work for right and Allah ALONE and dont care for success, you MAY get success, but no guarantee !!!!!!!

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MWM should limit itself to being a pressure group and an organisation to rally Shia, and Sunnis, at the grassroots. If they try to become a political party and contest elections, it is going to spell their end.

No sectarian party can or has ever managed a foothold in the parliament. Despite it being a country with deep sectarian divisions, politics in Pakistan are decidedly non-sectarian. If you want to make a political mark, create a secular, all-inclusive party, and do your politics around issues not sects.

Moreover, I want to add that raising the issue of Shia killing and oppression of other minorities and/or opposition to establishment's pro-West policies don't have to be, in fact should not be, in religious language. The Lahore rally is dubbed as "Quran-o-Sunnat Conference". Why? Educated, learned people in cities and those with non-sectarian outlook are wary of religious rhetoric and won't buy anything that is sold to them in the garb of religion.

Marbs if by educated, learned people of the cities you mean the liberals of our society than I beg to differ. In addition to their numbers being negligible, the left wing, liberal elite, seculars call it what ever you may have always been MIA when it comes to the issue of shia oppression. So making efforts to attract them will be a waste of time.

As I understand, the whole point of these rallies is to highlight the sufferings of shia in this country. And this issue alone should always take the center stage.

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Marbs if by educated, learned people of the cities you mean the liberals of our society than I beg to differ. In addition to their numbers being negligible, the left wing, liberal elite, seculars call it what ever you may have always been MIA when it comes to the issue of shia oppression. So making efforts to attract them will be a waste of time.

As I understand, the whole point of these rallies is to highlight the sufferings of shia in this country. And this issue alone should always take the center stage.

Pure Power Politics of an Angry Crowd. They should rather focus on, if they could shut Islamabad down with say 100,000 people surrounding GHQ or Islamabad Red Zone for a few weeks if anymore Shia blood spills. Pakistan Shias have been, "live and let live" for decades, they should also posture "If we are not let live in peace, nobody else will live in peace either". No need appealing stuck in 70s liberal Shia poetic-nara-haidri crowd. Their sole success is in this defeated slogan "come kill us we are Hussaini".... Real Hussaini Shias are like Parachinar people who respond flower with a flower and a punch with a punch.

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Recently, I have stopped believing in the supposition that people's votes decide the outcome of an election in Pakistan. The Pakistan Election Commission is man powered by Pakistanis after all. So, imho, it doesn't matter if MWM runs for elections or not. And if foreign or domestic satanists try to hurt it then their only logical motive will be in an attempt to silence another pure and democratic voice, but still the chances are slim that they will bother to.

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I don't wanna burst your bubble but this is doomed to failure. Arif al Hussaini was a charismatic, bright leader and he was killed off. Sajjid Naqvi is mostly an incompetent buffon so he's left left alive.

Either way it'll end badly for Shi'ah in Pakistan. I get ZERO joy in thinking or writing this but ISI/Govt/Wahabbi union will ensure NO Shi'ah gets too above his 'station'.

For once though I hope I'm wrong ....

ALI

Edited by Kismet110
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I don't wanna burst your bubbles but this is doomed to failure. Arif al Hussaini was a charismatic, bright leader and he was killed off. Sajjid Naqvi is mostly an incompetent buffon so he's left left aive.

Either way it'll end badly for Shi'ah in Pakistan. I get ZERO joy in thinking or writing that but ISI/Govt/Wahabbi union will ensure NO Shi'ah gets too above his 'station'.

ALI

So brother you are spreading hopelessness which is not right.

I think totally otherwise. Shia nation by default is bound to rise up as long as they have proper eiman and proper aqida. Obviously they are doomed if they remain happy in this "malang" BS. But if enough Shia Paki masses start following marja', and believe in WilatulFaqih, they automatically come in to the mindset that they need a leadership and without one, they are a lame herd of sheeps, ready to be led away, slaughtered, or misused at the whims of anyone.

I think if they keep the momentum going, the Shias of Pakistan are going to shine. They will still get killed, the leaders will still get killed, but in a few decades the ISI/Wahabi/Army triangle of Shiatan and their victims Shia would find a neat balance of "live and let live".

There is no other option for Shias of Pakistan other than either resist politically but forcefully or get annihilited morally and mentally.

Islam always prevails, because it is the promise of Allah, as long as you are really following Islam. If you make Shia Islam, the original Islam into this BS malang thing or what not [Edited Out] they call in this stupid Punjabi heartland, then they are goign to be screwed. But inshAllah they are not going to be screwed because there is enough masses who believe in WF so I'm definitely hopeful.

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"Obviously they are doomed if they remain happy in this "malang" BS. But if enough Shia Paki masses start following marja', and believe in WilatulFaqih, they automatically come in to the mindset that they need a leadership and without one"

Political leadership is NOT the same as Islamic leadership and once we embrace this difference life will be 'easier'. We already had a long (and closed) discussion about WeF and that's proven to be of little to no benefit for Pakistani Shi'ah.

Pakistan is NOT Iran. Iran is 90% (or more) Shi'ah so the situation on the ground during Shah of Iran's time made it easy for people to rally around something they all believe in (whether little or lots).

Pakistan is 20/25% Shi'ah with uphill battle against ISI/Najdi/Army triangle + media apathy to some extent.

A surge for WeF or similar coup which would GUARANTEE any hesitance to crush Shi'ah would be switched off overnight.

Islam will prevail until Day of Judgment regardless what happens. Our Imam (ajtf) will remain the ONLY Leader of for us until that day. It's not a malang issue or otherwise and that doesn't mean their destined to suffer but the change in a situation comes from realisation and complete belief in a TRUE leader (ajtf) - not scrabbling around looking for a substitute.

ALI

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Brother I see the same "hide from reality" response from you. I do not want people to try to bring Islamic revolution like Iran. Like yourself, everybody else understand Pakistan is 25% Shia.

But many do not understand why a 25% Shia, 50 million strong, who have some rich as hell, the original founders of Pakistan, who literally owned army, beaurucracy, and poltical leadership in the early days of Pakistan, have overtime become the BUTT of all miseries in South Asia.

Believing in the concept of Marja, getting under the leadership of a joint political/religious leadership is not something an option, it is an existential requirement for Shias.

Does not mean Shias should vote for the Shia leadership, because this will be diluted just due to sheer minority of numbers in the bigger scheme of things.

The religious-political leadership, all in one, should make up into this pressure group where they dictate things out of parliament.

Sort of what Jamat-e-Islami did. Ever wonder JI, a Wahabi outfit never gets more than 2 seats in parliament, still they are dominant faction in government, are instrumental in creating most disturbance for any democratic government and so on.

Shia political-religious parties should never go the polls, but people MUST rally behind their political-religious (political Ulema) to make pressure groups to change the way things are going in Pakistan.

Islam (Shia Islam) does not teach us to "be killed". It teaches us "to live".

Some stupids among the Shias of Pakistan time and again say, "come kill us, we are Shias" which is a slogan of Satan, of whims, of eunichs, of losers, of succors, but not of the followers of Imam Hussain (as).

If some of us are bent on following other's examples, here are a few:

1. Lebanon - Shias are somewhere 50% of the population.

2. Iraq - Shias are roughly over 60% of the pop.

But to me, why to follow other's examples. We have Iran like situation in Gilgit Baltistan where overwhelming majority is Shia. Apply Iranian model there. We have mix and match in areas of Punjab, Karachi, and others, Use Lebanon as model. For other areas where there are small pockets, create your own model.

But one thing is common in any place where Shia got their rightful due - the ultimate leadership, in the front or in the back, has been enlightened Shia revolutionary Ulema. And don't tell me Ay. Seestani is not one of those. He is and we have seen his poltics when Muqtada was holed up in Najaf.

The sooner Shias of Pakistan drop this senseless idea of separation of politics and religion, the better it will be for them.

Currently from USA to EU to Russia to India to Turkey to ME to Central Asia to Indonesia and Malay, all poltics is strictly religious, be it Chiristian, Evengelicals, Zionists, Hindus, Salafis, or Shias. Everything else is just plain noise and fooling yourself.

Edited by Waiting for HIM
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The sooner Shias of Pakistan drop this senseless idea of separation of politics and religion, the better it will be for them.

Currently from USA to EU to Russia to India to Turkey to ME to Central Asia to Indonesia and Malay, all poltics is strictly religious, be it Chiristian, Evengelicals, Zionists, Hindus, Salafis, or Shias. Everything else is just plain noise and fooling yourself.

There is toooo much USE of RELIGION for POLITICS.

That will lead to the CORRUPTION of RELIGION.

Religion is for Allah ALONE !!!

Religion is NOT tribalism.

PRACTICE religion. Fehmida Mirza should show honesty. The application of religion to one's self and to uphold justice and the rule of law.

No one is above the law, whether zardari, gillani, Army, Kayani, Pasha.

Incidentally, the four names above are turko iranian including zardari.

I dont say separate religion from politics. Apply religion in your daily politics as fully as possible by ensuring you are acting honest and following Amr bil Maroof wa Nahi unil Munkir.

But dont make religion YET another mode of Tribalism and corruption (favoritism criteria).

Today, Fehmida Mirza holds the fate of shia in Pakistan, including her and her husband's.

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Would a strictly shia party would be a good idea?.................May be we should just mix into main stream parties and work for our interests .................

Building a shia party like that could be dangerous for us as it might bring political limitations for the shia community..and we might become an open target............

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There is toooo much USE of RELIGION for POLITICS.

That will lead to the CORRUPTION of RELIGION.

Religion is for Allah ALONE !!!

Religion is NOT tribalism.

PRACTICE religion. Fehmida Mirza should show honesty. The application of religion to one's self and to uphold justice and the rule of law.

No one is above the law, whether zardari, gillani, Army, Kayani, Pasha.

Incidentally, the four names above are turko iranian including zardari.

I dont say separate religion from politics. Apply religion in your daily politics as fully as possible by ensuring you are acting honest and following Amr bil Maroof wa Nahi unil Munkir.

But dont make religion YET another mode of Tribalism and corruption (favoritism criteria).

Today, Fehmida Mirza holds the fate of shia in Pakistan, including her and her husband's.

It does not matter what peace nicks or other "hide head under the sand" think, like I said above, from USA to EU to Russia to India to Turkey to ME to Central Asia to Indonesia and Malay, all poltics is strictly religious, be it Chiristian, Evengelicals, Zionists, Hindus, Salafis, or Shias. Everything else is just plain noise and fooling yourself.

Secularism of 70s is already dead. Either you embrace religious politics to uphold everything that you hold dear or be among the masses who get swayed by this false slogan or that false agenda only to be fooled around..

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It does not matter what peace nicks or other "hide head under the sand" think, like I said above, from USA to EU to Russia to India to Turkey to ME to Central Asia to Indonesia and Malay, all poltics is strictly religious, be it Chiristian, Evengelicals, Zionists, Hindus, Salafis, or Shias. Everything else is just plain noise and fooling yourself.

Secularism of 70s is already dead. Either you embrace religious politics to uphold everything that you hold dear or be among the masses who get swayed by this false slogan or that false agenda only to be fooled around..

I don't know how you arrived at this assessment but it's off the mark. Behind secular systems there may be religious agendas at play but that's determined by who the perceived 'enemy' is at the time' 20/30 years ago (for the West/US) it was Communism, now it's the spread/influence of Islam so the policies are dictated accordingly.

The driver is power and control and the religion of the perpetrator is immaterial. Bush was a devout Christian Republican, Obama is the opposite but minor differences aside their global policy is the same. China was heavily Communist but has gone through drastic change yet their leadership's desire is the same.

ALI

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