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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Exactly 9 years ago to this day, Iraq fell to the occupying forces and a period of darkness and chaos started in Iraq's history,

However, i though I'd share some vignettes about that day, 9th April, 2003, in Baghdad -

Saddam visiting the people and cheered by enthusiatic crowds in al Adhamiyah, even as US Forces are less than 2 kms away -

Saddam and Qusay, outside Masjed Abu Hanifa, in a surreal moment

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@Professor

  1. Can you explain the reasons for your support for Saddam? (If you have done this already can you post the link)
  2. What is your view on his known atrocities?
  3. What if Saddam was toppled via people (ex. Arab Spring) rather than foreign invasion, would you have been okay with that?

I'm intrigued to know.

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السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته - Peace be upon you as well as Allah's Mercy and Blessings...

و لصلاة و السلام على خير خلق الله و حبيب قلوبنا، الرسول محمد، و آله الطيبين الطاهرين - And may the Prayers and Peace be upon the Best of Allah's Creations, the beloved of our hearts, the Messenger Muhammad as well as his Generous and Pure Family...

و لعنة الله الدائمة على أعداءهم و ظالميهم و التابعين على ذلك من الأولين إلى الآخرين - And may the permanent curse of Allah be upon their enemies and their oppressors and those who follow the trend from the first ones to the last ones..

As we say "what turns around goes around"... the cursed Saddam -la- executed our beloved martyr and marja2 Grand Ayatollah Sayyid Muhammad Baqir al-Sadr -ra- and his sister Sayyida Amina Bint-al-Huda al-Sadr -ra- on this day...

And by the baraka of their martyrdom, Saddam's -la- power was brought down on this same day...

و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله و بركاته - And upon you be Peace as well as Allah's Mercy and Blessings...

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@Professor

  1. Can you explain the reasons for your support for Saddam? (If you have done this already can you post the link)
  2. What is your view on his known atrocities?
  3. What if Saddam was toppled via people (ex. Arab Spring) rather than foreign invasion, would you have been okay with that?

I'm intrigued to know.

1. Saddam was the only ruler in the Middle East who resisted both Israel and Iran. Thats a combination I can't resist.

2. He didn't commit any "atrocities", he dealt with foreign backed plots and mercenaries to protect the State.

3. It would've been interesting to see an Arab Spring in Iraq, but to be honest such a thing could never have taken off, because Iraq is a tribal based society. It would have died down in a matter of days, and if it turned violent, Saddam would have dealt with it the same way he dealt with the foreign-backed "intifada" in 1991. Saddam had a 63 division Army with 100,000s of Scud missiles, Grad rockets, and chemical warheads.

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3. It would've been interesting to see an Arab Spring in Iraq, but to be honest such a thing could never have taken off, because Iraq is a tribal based society. It would have died down in a matter of days, and if it turned violent, Saddam would have dealt with it the same way he dealt with the foreign-backed "intifada" in 1991. Saddam had a 63 division Army with 100,000s of Scud missiles, Grad rockets, and chemical warheads.

3. You didn't answer the question. Let's say the people toppled Saddam, would you be okay with that? Would you support the Iraqi people or Saddam?

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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Guest Zahratul_Islam

1. Saddam was the only ruler in the Middle East who resisted both Israel and Iran. Thats a combination I can't resist.

ROFL. Yeah. Israel really didn't like the Iran war. Since we are clearly ignoring historical realities why don't you just throw in that he resisted America too, for the lulz.

2. He didn't commit any "atrocities", he dealt with foreign backed plots and mercenaries to protect the State.

3. It would've been interesting to see an Arab Spring in Iraq, but to be honest such a thing could never have taken off, because Iraq is a tribal based society. It would have died down in a matter of days, and if it turned violent, Saddam would have dealt with it the same way he dealt with the foreign-backed "intifada" in 1991. Saddam had a 63 division Army with 100,000s of Scud missiles, Grad rockets, and chemical warheads.

[Edited Out] you, [Edited Out]. :lol:

Edited by Zahratul_Islam

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ROFL. Yeah. Israel really didn't like the Iran war. Since we are clearly ignoring historical realities why don't you just throw in that he resisted America too, for the lulz.

[Edited Out] you, . :lol:

I am not just talking about the War, the whole culture of anti-Iranianism and anti-Zionism, the whole ideoligical saturation of Iraqi media with these 2 currents, clever things like naming the War his Qadisiyyah, etc.

Btw Israel helped Iran during the war, firstly by bombing the OSIRAQ nuclear reactor and secondly be pressing Reagan to clamp down on all weapons imports by Iraq.

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:blink: he resisted Iran or he ATTACKED Iran?

Actually it was a preemptive War, bevause Iran would have destroyed Iraq from withing by spreading their posionous revolution propaganda and their trash ideology, something which they have now almost succeeded in doing, thanks to their Neocon friends. the long-term objective was ofcourse to make the Palestinians even more dependent on Iran, since other than Saddam , not a single Arab ruler ever did something positive towards the Palestinian resistance, except paying lip service and trying to buy our loyalty.

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I can't imagine such a scenari, for it to happen, Saddam would have to cease being Saddam. Then even I would have opposed him.

You need to imagine it man.

Follow up questions because I'm intrigued by your genuine love and support for Saddam.

1. Do you love Saddam because of his accomplishments only or as a person also?

2. In hindsight, can you name couple of vital mistakes Saddam made in your opinion?

3. What is your opinion on Saddam's 2 sons? Were they good/bad? Would either been a good successor to Saddam?

4. Who is your favorite living Arab/Muslim leader now? (if you can name couple)

5. Which Arab/Muslim living leaders do you loathe? (if you can name a couple)

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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Higgin's argument is the same as the Americans, "Israelis helped the Iranians by taking out the Iraqi reactor".

What he doesn't get is that Saddam opposed Israel for reasons that relate to ignorant Pan-Arab ideology while Iran opposes Israel to reasons that relate to Islam, not this garbage Pan-Arab ideology.

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What he doesn't get is that Saddam opposed Israel for reasons that relate to ignorant Pan-Arab ideology while Iran opposes Israel to reasons that relate to Islam, not this garbage Pan-Arab ideology.

Well I wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. If we could be real for a second, and acknowledge that Islamic Republic of Iran (for good or for worse) is trying to exert its influence in the region again (the first time being since its inception as an Islamic Republic) ever since the Iraq war.

There has clearly been a political void in championing the Palestinian cause, ever since the previous champion of that cause, Egypt was long sold out when Anwar Sadat made peace with Israel and recognised their right to exist. Iran is just seeing a void, and filling it.

Both Iran and to a lesser extent, Turkey, are exploiting the cause for political purposes - I wouldn't deny the average person's sincerity in these countries, but politicians will be politicians I'm afraid.

If we were to buy the whole Islamic principle aspect of their hostility toward Israel, with the occupation and oppression, we can see that the same principle goes out the window when we see the Islamic Republic of Iran's dealings with both Russia (who occupy and oppress Chechens in the republic of Chechnya and others like Dagestan) and China (who occupy and oppress Uighurs in Xinjiang). Iran to date has not criticised either Russia or China over their mistreatment of these Muslim ethnic groups, because Iran like the rest of them acts in self-interest.

They oppose Israel for reasons that relate to politics, with Islam used as a facade is what you should have said. I mean it's good that they do support Palestine and all, but let's not be so gullible.

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Well I wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. If we could be real for a second, and acknowledge that Islamic Republic of Iran (for good or for worse) is trying to exert its influence in the region again (the first time being since its inception as an Islamic Republic) ever since the Iraq war.

There has clearly been a political void in championing the Palestinian cause, ever since the previous champion of that cause, Egypt was long sold out when Anwar Sadat made peace with Israel and recognised their right to exist. Iran is just seeing a void, and filling it.

Both Iran and to a lesser extent, Turkey, are exploiting the cause for political purposes - I wouldn't deny the average person's sincerity in these countries, but politicians will be politicians I'm afraid.

If we were to buy the whole Islamic principle aspect of their hostility toward Israel, with the occupation and oppression, we can see that the same principle goes out the window when we see the Islamic Republic of Iran's dealings with both Russia (who occupy and oppress Chechens in the republic of Chechnya and others like Dagestan) and China (who occupy and oppress Uighurs in Xinjiang). Iran to date has not criticised either Russia or China over their mistreatment of these Muslim ethnic groups, because Iran like the rest of them acts in self-interest.

They oppose Israel for reasons that relate to politics, with Islam used as a facade is what you should have said. I mean it's good that they do support Palestine and all, but let's not be so gullible.

There are obvious political implications. I don't deny that 100%.

But you shouldn't have brought up the example with Chechens.

Iran has been caught red handed on a few occasion sending Basij etc. to aid the Chechens during the wars against Russia before the Chechen leadership under the Kadryov's bended over to the Russians.

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You need to imagine it man.

Follow up questions because I'm intrigued by your genuine love and support for Saddam.

1. Do you love Saddam because of his accomplishments only or as a person also?

2. In hindsight, can you name couple of vital mistakes Saddam made in your opinion?

3. What is your opinion on Saddam's 2 sons? Were they good/bad? Would either been a good successor to Saddam?

4. Who is your favorite living Arab/Muslim leader now? (if you can name couple)

5. Which Arab/Muslim living leaders do you loathe? (if you can name a couple)

1. Bcz of what he stood for.

2. Couple of vital mistakes - invading Kuwait without adequate planning and preparation.

3. Oday was bad, Qusay was fine, Qusay would have been a good successor.

4. None

5. Nouri al-Maliki, King Abdullah II of Jordan, Emir al-Nahyan of UAE, Field Marshal Tantawi of Egypt.

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1. Bcz of what he stood for.

I understand your admiration, but do you actually believe he was a good person? Yes/No?

5. Nouri al-Maliki, King Abdullah II of Jordan, Emir al-Nahyan of UAE, Field Marshal Tantawi of Egypt.

Surprised you didn't mention any Irani personalities because I mentioned Arab/Muslim leaders.

My final 3 questions (excluding the one above).

1. What change/s would you like to see in Iraq (politics-wise)?

2. What would you do to deter Irani Shia influence in Iraq?

3. How would you deal with the Shias in Iraq who want significantly more involvement in politics/government? (would you be okay with it or stop it somehow?).

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I understand your admiration, but do you actually believe he was a good person? Yes/No?

I do not judge a person on the basis of good / bad

.

1. What change/s would you like to see in Iraq (politics-wise)?

You know very well.

2. What would you do to deter Irani Shia influence in Iraq?

Saddam has shown how to do that for posterity, btw pls stop bringing "Shia" into this again and again.

3. How would you deal with the Shias in Iraq who want significantly more involvement in politics/government? (would you be okay with it or stop it somehow?).

Iraq is not divided along sectarian or ethnic lines as the Zionist controlled media has duped the world into believing. Iraqis are Iraqis, not Shias or Sunnis. Shia or Sunni is in the private sphere. It is ridiculous to claim that Shia in Iraq want more involvement in politics/government. Politics is a load of horse rubbish and Government is for those who are most suitable, and they can be both Sunni or Shia, as long as they take the right decision.

For starters, Saddam was President of Iraq not because he was Sunni or Tikriti, but because he was the Chairman of the Arab Socialist Baath Party, Iraq Region. Anyone who was supreme leader of the Baath Party was de facto leader of Iraq, he could be a Sunni, Shia, Kurd, anything.

Keep your questions coming, I like them, it helps me to better explain my position.

Edited by Professor Higgins

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Saddam was such a coward, I would have attempted to kill him myself if he was ever in my presence. I hope he rots in the ground, and then in hell.

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I do not judge a person on the basis of good / bad

That is odd.

You know very well.

I honestly don't, my presence in political forum is sporadic. If you explained it before you can post a link.

Saddam has shown how to do that for posterity, btw pls stop bringing "Shia" into this again and again.

I have to bring it up because of the shared border. I'm trying to put myself in an Iraqi Sunni's shoes, how would I deter Irani influence?

----------------

1. Who should Iraq ally with, which countries you'd pick? (alliances are vital for economic and military reasons)

2. Kurds are always wanting independence, even though their area is prospering compared to other parts of Iraq, what is your take on them?

3. Do you believe Kuwait should be part of Iraq?

4. I'm curious about how you feel that Saddam would spend millions and millions of dollars on his palaces when millions lived under the poverty line?

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That is odd.

I have to bring it up because of the shared border. I'm trying to put myself in an Iraqi Sunni's shoes, how would I deter Irani influence?

----------------

Iraq is not divided along sectarian or ethnic lines as the Zionist controlled media has duped the world into believing. Iraqis are Iraqis, not Shias or Sunnis. Shia or Sunni is in the private sphere. It is ridiculous to claim that Shia in Iraq want more involvement in politics/government. Politics is a load of horse rubbish and Government is for those who are most suitable, and they can be both Sunni or Shia, as long as they take the right decision.

For starters, Saddam was President of Iraq not because he was Sunni or Tikriti, but because he was the Chairman of the Arab Socialist Baath Party, Iraq Region. Anyone who was supreme leader of the Baath Party was de facto leader of Iraq, he could be a Sunni, Shia, Kurd, anything.

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I'm trying to put myself in an Iraqi Sunni's shoes, how would I deter Irani influence?

1. The good thing is that Iran is independent, has no boss like Arabs do... If there is any Shia Iranian influence in Iraq, then it is a 'Shia Islamic' influence, which is what majority of Iraqis want, and is accepted.

2. Try to put yourself in a Kuwaiti Shia's shoes, in UAE's, Saudis, Pakistanis and many more Sunni countries where there are Shia minorities and they CANNOT do anything about Wahabis influence, about Ahl-Saud influence, who unlike Iran are dependent and puppets of Zionists as well, and their influence is actually against Islamic interests. If those Shias cannot do anything about such influences, same is true with Sunnis of Iraq, especially the Sunni Arabs who make only 10% of the populaton.

Kuwait 30% Shia

UAE 15% Shia

Pakistan 20% Shia

Yemen 45% Shia

Saudi 15% Shia

I can go on and on the same with other countries... if no one cares about these Shias and what they want in their countries? Ahle Saud Sunni influence in their countries? or? Then why is it really matter and questioned over and over again what the 10% Sunni Arabs want in Iraq? or even the entire Sunnis (35% including Kurds) want?

Saddam and Baathists are long gone, stop dreaming big!

The Shia Iran will be there with Shias of Iraq, no one can do anything about it... not even Ahmadinejad or Maliki even if they wanted to... it is a religious link, social, economic, family and 100s of other links that will keep the people of the countries close togehter..

They even had their relations while Saddam was there; thousands of them who faced tortures and massacres, inluding the Sunni Kurds did not go to SAUDI, they took REFUGE IN IRAN.

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2. Try to put yourself in a Kuwaiti Shia's shoes, in UAE's, Saudis, Pakistanis and many more Sunni countries where there are Shia minorities and they CANNOT do anything about Wahabis influence, about Ahl-Saud influence,

Kinda like....

Try to put yourself in a Irani Sunni's shoes where there are Sunni minorities and they CANNOT do anything about Shia influence, about IRI influence,

:wacko:

who unlike Iran are dependent and puppets of Zionists as well, and their influence is actually against Islamic interests. If those Shias cannot do anything about such influences, same is true with Sunnis of Iraq, especially the Sunni Arabs who make only 10% of the populaton.

None of those Arab countires recognize Israel. Not only that, a regular bloke can't even enter those countries if he visited Israel before (has a Israel stamp on passport). That contradicts your 'puppets of Zionists' claim.

If having a relationship with US is puppetry (or whatever puppets of Zionests means according to you) then all the countries on this planet are puppets, and many of them allies of iran (the irony).

What defines a puppet?

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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