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Christianlady

Why Most Christian Ladies Do Not Wear Hijab

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Peace be upon you my Sister in Humanity ;)

I am curious and I don't mean to be rude or offensive. I am just interested :)

Hello Ali :)

Peace be upon you as well. You're not being rude or offensive at all. It's great to question, and it's an interesting topic.

But since our dear Brother mentioned the Hijab and you commented, it reminded me of a lecture I recently saw by Seyed Ammar Nakshawani about the Hijab in Islam and Christianity.

This is the link: This link if audio = http://www.sayedamma...linchristi.html

But if your more like me and prefer watching the speaking when they discusses topics then here is rhe YouTube video of the lecture

Hmm it appears, because I am using my iPad it only sends the mobile version for the link... But the audio one would be fine. If you like to watch rhe video you go to the speakers website here: http://www.sayedamma...mmarnakshc.html

Then scroll all the way to the bottom and it is lecture number: 226 and there is an option for YouTube if you wish to watch it there.

I haven't watched it yet, but if God wills, I will watch it later. Thanks for the detailed instructions.

But in the lecture the speaker quotes from the Bible and Qur'an about God asking woman to wear hijab/veil and discusess it. I had no idea that it was actually in the bible as well,

The only place in the Bible is not God asking woman to wear hijab/veil, but rather that Paul says in his letter to the church in Corinth the following:

1 Corinthians 11 (NIV) - I boldened some.

"2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[Or of the wife is her husband] and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

7 A man ought not to cover his head,[Or Every man who prays or prophesies with long hair dishonors his head. But every woman who prays or prophesies with no covering of hair dishonors her head—she is just like one of the “shorn women.” If a woman has no covering, let her be for now with short hair; but since it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair shorn or shaved, she should grow it again. A man ought not to have long hair] since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own[Or have a sign of authority on her] head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16 If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God."

This is the only place in the New Testament concerning a woman covering one's head. It has been a very interesting topic of debate for centuries among Christians. Some very important things to note are the following:

1. There is no other place in the Old Testament or New Testament commanding women to cover their heads.

2. Many Jewish men do wear hats (coverings) on their heads while praying, including the priests who wore turbans specified by God (please see Exodus 28 and 29) so it is not a dishonor for men to pray with their head covered.

3. The Nazirites grew out their hair... including the men. (Please see Numbers 6)

So, most Christians today take 1 Corinthians 11 to be cultural advice from Paul to the Christians in the city of Corinth.

so I guess it makes sense now when we see Nuns wearing very similar hijabi as Muslim woman do. But my question is, as you seem quite religious :P and also very knowledgeable in your Religion, do you also cover your hair? I'm just asking becuase I've never seen a Christian woman cover her hair except for nuns, so this is just asking a quick question

I do not cover my hair no. However, if I lived in a Muslim dominated country, I would cover my hair, but make sure to put a symbol on the veil (like the fish symbol) to be identified as a Christian.

There are some Christian women who do cover their hair in some form of covering. For example, there are Russian Christians who cover their hair with scarfs. There are Amish Christians who cover their hair with a bonnet, as well as Mennonite Christians. Long time ago, Chrisitans of most Protestant denominations wore pretty hats to church, one purpose being to cover one's head. However, nowadays most Christian ladies do not cover their head, because most Christians today interpret 1 Corinthians 11 to be Paul's advice to the specific culture in Corinth.

But you probably don't really want to see the lecture, but if you want to learn more about the Hijab and watch the speaker discuss in it the Bible as well then I highly reccommend it.

Sure. Please understand however that I do not consider a person who does not believe all the Bible to be true, to be an expert on the Bible. You understand yes? For example, I am sure that you would not consider a person who does not believe all the Quran to be true, to be an expert on the Quran, yes?

Oh, I have another question now haha.

What branch of Christianity are you from? Like Catholic, Anglican ect, as we are Shi'a Muslims so we are the 2nd largest group as you may know :P

I am an interdenominational Protestant. That means that I do not belong to any specific subgroup in the Protestant branch of Christian beliefs. However, I do lean a bit towards Messianic Judaism, even though I am not a Messianic Gentile, nor am I Jewish. I lean towards Messianic Judaism because I understand that Jesus is Jewish, as well as the 12 apostles who walked and talked with Jesus, and that Jesus fulfills and will fulfill (not abolishes or abrogates) the Tanakh, the Scriptures that God gave to the Jewish people.

Interdenominational means that I believe the different groups are all brothers and sisters in Christ, with a few exceptions (for example, I do not believe Mormons are true Christians)

Peace and God bless you

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Hello Ali,

I just wanted to add that I believe that Catholics who obey Jesus' teachings are true Christians and are my brothers and sisters in Christ as well. Sadly, there are Christians of many different groups (denominations) who do not obey Jesus' teachings and don't seem to care. However, any person who does obey Jesus' teachings, I believe to be a true Christian, regardless of denomination. Jssus' teachings including loving one another, loving one's enemies, praying for others, doing good to others, blessing instead of cursing, helping the poor, and so on.

Paul has many teachings, most of which I agree. The following is in the letter he wrote to the church of Galatia. (Please notice that in Galatians, he does not command the women to wear head coverings)

Galatians 5 (NIV) - I boldened some.

" 13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b]15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other."

So, if a Christian, regardless of denomination, regardless of being Catholic or Protestant or Orthodox or whatever group, is following Jesus' teachings and shows the fruit of the Spirit = love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control - this is what is important. Growing in the fruit of the Spirit is a life-long endeavor... one doesn't wake up beaming fruit everyday. It's a constant learning process of following Jesus' commands and not feeding selfishness and sinful desires. What does this have to do with a head covering? Well, a head covering is a cultural thing. A head covering does not mean that the lady who wears it has a pure heart, although I am sure there are women who wear a head covering who do have pure hearts. Paul, in his letter to the church in Corinth, addressed many issues that it is possible if he were alive today, he would be getting after many churches in the world for, such as sexual immorality and other sins. Many Christian ladies of today, including myself, do believe it is important for women to dress modestly. However, we believe modesty is defined within one's culture. In my culture, modesty is not showing the areas that are covered by a normal slightly baggy t-shirt and normal slighty baggy (not short shorts) shorts. Most men in my culture do not tend to be tempted by normal slightly baggy clothing, but rather by tight-fitting and very revealing clothing. or very little clothing. For example, a bikini should be a no-no for Christian ladies, except for just with her husband in a private setting where only her husband can see her. :)

Below are commands in the Bible concerning women being modest.

Peace and God bless you

1 Timothy 2 (NIV) (a letter by Paul - I boldened some.)

"8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God."

1 Peter 3 (NIV) (words of Peter, the leader of the 12 apostles Jesus chose who walked and talked with Jesus - I boldened some.)

"1 Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. 4 Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, 6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

Suffering for Doing Good

8 Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. 9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing. 10 For,

“Whoever would love life

and see good days

must keep their tongue from evil

and their lips from deceitful speech.

11 They must turn from evil and do good;

they must seek peace and pursue it.

12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous

and his ears are attentive to their prayer,

but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”[Psalm 34:12-16]"

Edited by Christianlady

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The brother above made an interesting point. Maryam (pbuh) is portrayed in churches all over the world wearing a hijab, covering her hair and she was not from Corinth, was she?

It is an interesting topic and I was completely unaware of this fact of having it even mentioned in the bible. But yeah, if you wish to continue to investigate this topic, Sis, then watch the video. He raises many points, one being he argues against your claim that is was merely culture for the people of Corinth.

Yes, I understand but even though he doesn't believe the Bibile to be 100% doesn't mean he cannot be an expert in the field of Christianity. For example look at the legendary debater, Ahmed Deedat. He was self taught on and is regarded today as on of the greatest debates for his mind blowing debates with Christians. You should look him up some if you wish :) but yes the speaker in the link I sent you is regarded as one of the best speakers going around, especially from the Shia community. He has stated many times that ignorance is the disease of the intellect and says that if we have to study on the religion of the people around us otherwise misconceptions come about and then fights and disagreements occur due to everyone's ignorance.

Yeah, that's interesting, I was always wanting to know what Branch of Christianity you follow, as there are many these days. One of my good friends is a Christian, or Anglican Christian I should say and I would often go with him to his youth groups and bible study sessions they hold before when I was looking into different religions. But afterwards God showed me Islam and the perfection it offered in every aspect of the religion and along the way, showed me many signs that brought me closer to him through Islam. Even at my school there is a Christian lunchtime group, and a good friend of mine who also converted to Islam 3 weeks ago, Praise Be to God, I told him we should attend the group with them. It is good to build religious tolerance and acceptance as it is vital for both religions to learn the teachings of the religions and to remove all forms of misconceptions.

Salaam wa alaykum (Peace Be Upon You)

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i just want to know 1 thing

nabi isa (as) had a beard - why dont christians grow beards?

salams

I believe the Muslim custom is to emulate your Imam?

I see many Muslims all trying to look the same. Long white beards, probably long hair too but covered by a (not really) turban kinda hat, long flowing dress.

That's possibly because you have real pictures, or have seen them.

There are many "pictures" of Jesus but none are real. There's no reason to think he was fair, blonde, long hair, nicley trimmed beard and mustache, purple robe, glowing heart, halo...

Short of the matter, I have nobody to look like, too bad because my looks could use the help.

As for dress, I'm in Canada, I dress accordingly.

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Hi,

I find this in a Bible Commentary concerning 1 Corinthians 11:

Quote: Women were to remain under their customary veils when praying or prophesying. It had been a custom for ages for women to be veiled. Among Greeks, Romans and other nations it was also a custom.

Only public prostitutes went without veils, hence to pray or prophecy without a veil would be identifying Christianity with harlotry. If a woman appeared in public without a veil she would disgrace her head - the husband (v 3). it would be the same as women who had hair shorn off as punishment for [Edited Out]dom and adultery. --- End of quote.

--- It became a custom years later for women to wear a hat in Church services whether it had a veil or not. Veils were attached to a head covering often at weddings and funerals.

The other thing Paul mentions is that a woman's hair is her glory, and her covering.

15. But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering.

16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

--- Paul ends the teaching in 16, by saying it is a custom, (and in Corinth it had meaning for women to have their hair or head covered because of the women of the street in the wicked city of Corinth). --- but it is not a requirement for Churches where there is no such custom.

--- "Nothing adorns the beauty of a woman's face like her hair."

--- But she is not to flaunt her beauty in Church, lest it be attracting to some, and distracting for others.

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i am reading ur posts with interest and may i say ur manners are impeccable.

i am intrigued by one of the points u made - that u do not consider Mormons as Christians? can i ask why that is?

Hello AR2011,

Thanks. I appreciate it, and thanks for your polite question.

Mormons believe that Joseph Smith is a true prophet from God, and in the Book of Mormon. Have you ever studied Mormonism?

Most Christians, including me, believe that Joseph Smith is a false prophet, one of which Jesus prophesied and warned his followers about:

Matthew 24 (NIV) - I boldened some.

"3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[Daniel 9:27; 11:31; 12:11] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time."

Peace and God bless you

i just want to know 1 thing

maraym (mary) mother of nabi isa (jesus) (as) wore a hijab then why dont christians follow that?

also nabi isa (as) had a beard - why dont christians grow beards?

salams

Hello Varun loves ahlulbayt,

There is, as far as I know (please feel free to ask a Rabbi) no commandment that God gave to the children of Israel through Moses concerning women wearing veils. This was a cultural tradition during that time.

Christians, by the way, include Jewish people and Gentile people. Gentile Christians do not have to become or look like Jewish people in order to follow Jesus. Please see Acts 10 and Acts 15.

Peace and God bless you

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Simple, the feminist movement. I always see Christian women in very short skirts, chests popping out, etc. Is this what Jesus as taught? The hijab is more than a head covering, it is the way you carry yourself. It is how you cloak not only your entire body but also the way you act. Christian women in the 1800s wore modest clothes. Their arms weren't showing. Their legs were showing. Now women show everything. I am 100% sure that Christian women at the time of Jesus dressed very similar or maybe even exact to how Muslim women dress.

also refer to my sig=]

Edited by Goku

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Simple, the feminist movement. I always see Christian women in very short skirts, chests popping out, etc. Is this what Jesus as taught? The hijab is more than a head covering, it is the way you carry yourself. It is how you cloak not only your entire body but also the way you act. Christian women in the 1800s wore modest clothes. Their arms weren't showing. Their legs were showing. Now women show everything. I am 100% sure that Christian women at the time of Jesus dressed very similar or maybe even exact to how Muslim women dress.

also refer to my sig=]

Hello Goku,

First of all, do you go up and ask the women you see if they are Christian? If you do, you will find that many women who dress modestly do not consider themselves Christians. Do you live in a Western land? Not everyone in the West is Christian. That is a mistake that it seems many Muslims make, thinking that any Westerner they see is a Christian. That is simply not true.

Concerning Christians who do dress immodestly, it is between them and God. Regardless of what women wear or don't wear, men are supposed to guard their thoughts.

Job says the following, which I encourage both men and women to take to heart and do as well (women to not lust after men who are not their husband)

Job 31 (NIV) - I boldened some.

"1 “I made a covenant with my eyes

not to look lustfully at a young woman.

2 For what is our lot from God above,

our heritage from the Almighty on high?

3 Is it not ruin for the wicked,

disaster for those who do wrong?

4 Does he not see my ways

and count my every step?"

About your signature:

Have you ever thought about why the Jewish people do not have pictures/images of Moses, King David, Abraham and Sarah, and other people who are important to them? It is because they don't believe in drawing their pictures or trying to capture their likeness. That is more a Greek/Roman trait, to draw pictures and make statues. So, I am not sure why you have a picture of what you think Mary looked like, when nobody knows what she looks like, because Jewish people of the past did not draw pictures of themselves or of the important people in their history.

Secondly, can you please tell me where in the Tanakh God commands the children of Israel through Moses for women to wear a veil? Do you understand cultural traditions? Wearing veils were a cultural tradition.

Christian women do not have to follow ancient traditions in order to follow Jesus. If so, Christians would not drive cars, have computers, talk on cell phones, fly on planes, and the list goes on and on.

Peace and God bless you

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(salam)

Thank you very much for these insights into the 'Christian Hijab' concept. I myself have often wondered what that is and is it similar to Islam's concept of Hijab.

Also I just want to say Masha'Allah at you akhlaq and manners, God bless you. Without akhlaq (manners) there is nothing.

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Hello Goku,

First of all, do you go up and ask the women you see if they are Christian? If you do, you will find that many women who dress modestly do not consider themselves Christians. Do you live in a Western land? Not everyone in the West is Christian. That is a mistake that it seems many Muslims make, thinking that any Westerner they see is a Christian. That is simply not true.

Concerning Christians who do dress immodestly, it is between them and God. Regardless of what women wear or don't wear, men are supposed to guard their thoughts.

Job says the following, which I encourage both men and women to take to heart and do as well (women to not lust after men who are not their husband)

Job 31 (NIV) - I boldened some.

"1 “I made a covenant with my eyes

not to look lustfully at a young woman.

2 For what is our lot from God above,

our heritage from the Almighty on high?

3 Is it not ruin for the wicked,

disaster for those who do wrong?

4 Does he not see my ways

and count my every step?"

About your signature:

Have you ever thought about why the Jewish people do not have pictures/images of Moses, King David, Abraham and Sarah, and other people who are important to them? It is because they don't believe in drawing their pictures or trying to capture their likeness. That is more a Greek/Roman trait, to draw pictures and make statues. So, I am not sure why you have a picture of what you think Mary looked like, when nobody knows what she looks like, because Jewish people of the past did not draw pictures of themselves or of the important people in their history.

Secondly, can you please tell me where in the Tanakh God commands the children of Israel through Moses for women to wear a veil? Do you understand cultural traditions? Wearing veils were a cultural tradition.

Christian women do not have to follow ancient traditions in order to follow Jesus. If so, Christians would not drive cars, have computers, talk on cell phones, fly on planes, and the list goes on and on.

Peace and God bless you

I live in USA and right under the cross necklace guess what I see, something not very modest. So yes a lot of the people I see are Christian and are not modest. You say that Christian women do not follow ancient traditions. Modesty is something that does not go out of style or out of date. And it's no excuse either. flying planes and cellphones? they didn't have that back then. Modesty? they had that back then but doesn't seem like they have it now. So yes, the feminist movement is what caused women to not be so modest.

And my picture of Maryam... well I'm not saying she looked like that. I'm saying she had modesty like that or even more than the picture. And it is you Chrsitians who made that picture of Maryam, not me. Every picture of Mary I see with a head covering is from some Christian site.

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I live in USA and right under the cross necklace guess what I see, something not very modest. So yes a lot of the people I see are Christian and are not modest. You say that Christian women do not follow ancient traditions. Modesty is something that does not go out of style or out of date. And it's no excuse either. flying planes and cellphones? they didn't have that back then. Modesty? they had that back then but doesn't seem like they have it now. So yes, the feminist movement is what caused women to not be so modest.

And my picture of Maryam... well I'm not saying she looked like that. I'm saying she had modesty like that or even more than the picture. And it is you Chrsitians who made that picture of Maryam, not me. Every picture of Mary I see with a head covering is from some Christian site.

Of course they all dressed modest back then. They also needed protection from the sun. No doubt the femminist movement changed a lot of todays society, but modest dress was sheets back then, not designer jeans. That's what Musim women wear up here, that and white shirts, tight enough you barely notice their hijab. Then again many Muslim women here don't wear hijab.

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I live in USA and right under the cross necklace guess what I see, something not very modest.

Hello Goku,

I am curious. Were you born in the USA?

Concerning the cross necklace, that is a fashion statement that some nonChrisitans wear as well, when they feel like it. Wearing a cross does not mean one is Christian. Some people even associate it with other ideas.

Also, I notice you live in CA. Women, regardless of their belief, often wear less clothing in warmer climates. That is the case here in FL as well.

So yes a lot of the people I see are Christian and are not modest.

Again, how do you know they are Christian? Have you talked to them? Have you asked them about their beliefs? Do you even know their names?

Also, do you personally know any Christian women who take their belief seriously? How do they dress?

You say that Christian women do not follow ancient traditions. Modesty is something that does not go out of style or out of date..

mod·es·ty

 "  [mod-uh-stee] modest; freedom from vanity, boastfulness, etc.

2.

regard for decency of behavior, speech, dress, etc.

3.

simplicity; moderation."

http://dictionary.re...wse/modesty?s=t

"Origin:

1555–65; < Latin modestus restrained, decorous, equivalent to modes- (stem of *modus, an s- stem akin to modus mode1 , perhaps < *medos, with the vowel of modus; compare moderārī to moderate, from the same noun stem) + -tus adj. suffix "

http://dictionary.re...owse/modest?s=t

" mode

1    [mohd] Show IPAnoun

1.

a manner of acting or doing; method; way: modern modes of transportation."

http://dictionary.re...rowse/modes?s=t

If you understand the definition of modesty, it becomes clear that modesty is defined by the cultural norms of the day. (hence the word modern, modest, model, mode.

And it's no excuse either. flying planes and cellphones? they didn't have that back then.

Why do you think they didn't have them back then? It is not an excuse... it shows that times change. With the changing of times, technology changes, modes of transportation change, modes of dress change, and so on. If however, one wants to copy completely the life of people long time ago, including their mode of dress, they should also copy their modes of transportation, modes of communication, modes of thinking (that didn't include educating most women how to read and write) and so on.

Modesty? they had that back then but doesn't seem like they have it now. So yes, the feminist movement is what caused women to not be so modest.

Remember that modesty is a way to dress that is considered appropriate by the culture and time. Christian women are to dress modestly. That doesn't mean that they have to dress like Jewish women long time ago, no. However, in the USA as well as most Western nations nowadays, how one dresses is between one and God, because God is the Judge. I know some wonderful Christian women who only wear long dresses. I admire them for their conservative mode of dress. There are others who are much more liberal. God is Judge, not you nor me.

Below is from the letter of Paul to Timothy that talk about women need to be modest. Please note that veils and/or head coverings are not mentioned.

1 Timothy 2 (NIV) - I boldened all.

"9I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God."

And my picture of Maryam... well I'm not saying she looked like that. I'm saying she had modesty like that or even more than the picture. And it is you Chrsitians who made that picture of Maryam, not me. Every picture of Mary I see with a head covering is from some Christian site.

Christians do not know what Mary looked like. Christian artists only speculate and dress people due to their culture. For example, Greek women are dressed differently by most artists than Jewish women. Why? Culture

Again, God did not command women to wear a veil in His commands to the children of Israel through Moses. Concerning their culture, however, I recall a Jewish Orthodox person stating that unmarried women do not traditionally wear a veil... only married women, which is interesting.

Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady

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Again, God did not command women to wear a veil in His commands to the children of Israel through Moses. Concerning their culture, however, I recall a Jewish Orthodox person stating that unmarried women do not traditionally wear a veil... only married women, which is interesting.

Peace and God bless you

Hi Christian Lady

There is no command in the law of Moses from God for Ladies to veil themselves.

The veiling of woman began in the beginning ,Genesis 3:21

"The Lord God made Garments for Adam and his WIFE and CLOTHED them "

Now this might not be a convincing revelation but it set the standard of dress by by the Israelite women - it became their culture.

It became their culture not by chance ,but because God covered their mother Eve. GENESIS :3-21

So you find Rebekah also wore the veil - she dressed in a way that God dressed her mother Eve and all other Israelite women.

In GENESIS: 24-65 , " Rebekah took her veil and covered herself when Isaac approached "

Clearly from this revelation we find that Rebekah veiled herself - why - because through the generations that preceded her she and all

Israelite women followed their ancestor Eve ,whom God have clothed.

The following is a revelation to support the knowledge that Israelite women veiled themselves and was passed down through

generations from the time of Eve.

Numbers - 5:18 " and the priest shall set the women before the Lord , and uncover the woman's head"

Isaiah - 47:2 , " Take millstones and grind flour ,take off your VEIL, lift up your SKIRTS bare your LEGS, and wade through the

streams. Your NAKEDNESS will be exposed and your SHAME uncovered. I will take vengence , I will spare no one."

So we find in the above revelation God asks women to uncover themselves as a sign of His anger.

If we see God's anger expressed in this way - is it not better for women to cover and veil themselves.

Regards

Soloman

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Hi Soloman,

It seems like our Lady may be away again, but in the meantime, I have some questions and they are concerning the difference of covering for the body, for the face, and for the head, which also covers the hair.

Quote from Post 16:

The veiling of woman began in the beginning ,Genesis 3:21

"The Lord God made Garments for Adam and his WIFE and CLOTHED them "

Now this might not be a convincing revelation but it set the standard of dress by the Israelite women - it became their culture.

It became their culture not by chance ,but because God covered their mother Eve. GENESIS :3-21

Response: --- Genesis 3:21, The NIV says, “The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and Eve and clothed them.”

The NKJ says, “Also for Adam and Eve the Lord made tunics of skin, and clothed them.”

--- Does it not say that God clothed both Adam and Eve the same?

--- And it was the wearing of clothing for them both that was the requirement of God, --- and therefore it has been the culture or custom for men and women to wear clothing in every society, --- has it not?

Quote: So you find Rebekah also wore the veil - she dressed in a way that God dressed her mother Eve and all other Israelite women.

Response: --- Rebekah would be clothed as all women were, and as her Great Ancestors, Adam and Eve were,--- but in clothing to cover her body.

--- Years before Rebekah, when Abraham and Sarah went down to Egypt, this happened in Genesis 12:

11. And it came to pass, when he was close to entering Egypt, that he said to Sarai his wife, “Indeed I know that you are a woman of beautiful countenance.

12 Therefore it will happen, when the Egyptians see you, that they will say, ‘This is his wife’; and they will kill me, but they will let you live.

--- This shows that Sarah did not wear a veil either when they travelled, or when they met company, --- or Abraham would not have been worried when they saw her ‘countenance,‘ which means her face.

--- So, where are the supporting verses for Israelite women wearing veils?

They may have had veils, and might have worn them on occasions --- as the bride does at a wedding, and as the bereaved and sympathizers do at funerals, --- which is customary in our society today.

Quote: In GENESIS: 24-65 , "Rebekah took her veil and covered herself when Isaac approached "

Clearly from this revelation we find that Rebekah veiled herself - why - because through the generations that preceded her she and all Israelite women followed their ancestor Eve ,whom God have clothed.

Response: --- Abraham sent his servant to the city of his brother Nahor in Mesopotamia, to get a wife for Isaac. An angel went before them and prepared the way. The story is told in Genesis 24.

--- So Rebekah came to the well and fulfilled the sign that the servant was given. --- She was the daughter of Bethuel, son of Milkah, the wife of Nahor, Abraham’s brother.

She was not wearing a veil when she watered the camels, --- she would not have been wearing a veil in her father’s house later with her mother and the other women, the maids and servants.

--- She was not wearing a veil as she travelled with Abraham’s servant, but when she saw someone coming, she asked who it was, and the servant said, “It is Isaac.”

64. ‘She dismounted from her camel.’

65. ‘She took a veil and covered herself.’

--- She perhaps wanted to create a little ‘mystique’ in meeting her future husband. --- She may have been thinking as a woman would, “I want to have a look at you before you have a look at me.” --- so it may have just been a tactic of romance, --- Or it may have been the custom --- which may have started the tradition that we have today in weddings.

--- That the groom shouldn’t see the bride on the day of the wedding until he meets her at the alter where she may be wearing a light veil, --- not intended to cover her face, but only to show the temporary separation, until the veil is lifted, or removed.

Did you know that this incident with Rebekah is the first time the word ‘veil’ is used in the Bible, and the only time in Genesis?

---The wearing of a veil seemed to have no history in Scripture before this occasion.

(Enough for now)--- (The next verse involves some interesting verses.)

Placid

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Hi Anwark,

There is no problem with the wearing of the hijab. It may be part of dressing modestly, or being part of their religious custom even as the Nuns or Sisters of the Catholic Church wear theit head covering.

--- However, when they are not in their uniform they dress in modest street clothes.

In colder climates, the women wear headscarves or caps, so that can become a custom as well.

Many women wear hats of some kind for style, so it is up to the custom or desire of the individual in that case. Some women still wear a hat in a Church service, where it is not a requirement but has been a custom in years gome by.

Where hijabs are the requirement,or custom, then they are to be worn, but women should not have to live in fear of some violation. I have read that in some restrictive Muslim cultures, if a few strands of hair are showing outside of the hijab, the woman would be arrested. --- I guess the simple solution would be to cut the hair a little shorter so that wouldn't happen accidentally.

The discussion above is about veils, which cover the face, --- which is different than covering the head, or the hair.

--- However, you recognize people by their face, or their countenance,--- whether they do or don't have a head covering, isn't that right?

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Hi Placid

herself.’ --- She perhaps wanted to create a little ‘mystique’ in meeting her future husband. --- She may have been thinking as a woman would, “I want to have a look at you before you have a look at me.” --- so it may have just been a tactic of romance, --- Or it may have been the custom --- which may have started the tradition that we have today in weddings. --- That the groom shouldn’t see the bride on the day of the wedding until he meets her at the alter where she may be wearing a light veil, --- not intended to cover her face, but only to show the temporary separation, until the veil is lifted, or removed.

This is speculation and conjecture.

As for the veiling of the face - we have to leave it to those who want to follow that understanding of revelation.

But the hijab / head covering was the standard of dress for all the Noble Ladies of old.

Regards

Soloman

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Hi,

Quote: The following is a revelation to support the knowledge that Israelite women veiled themselves and was passed down through

generations from the time of Eve.

Numbers - 5:18 " and the priest shall set the women before the Lord , and uncover the woman's head"

Response: --- This next verse, Numbers 5:18, speaks of the strict measures taken to keep the Children of Israel pure by giving them instructions on how to deal with each situation. --- The idea was that if a person was guilty of a sexual crime and the two involved were trying to conceal it, --- then God would see that it was revealed, to prove guilt or innocence.

This speaks of a head covering that was removed, but there is no mention of a veil that covers the face. --- The significance of a hijab suggests, --- modesty, privacy and morality, --- so, if a married woman was pretending to be innocent and was wearing either a symbol, or the color of purity, --- it was a sin against God as well as her husband.

However, --- they are two different things, --- a covering for the head, --- and a veil over the face, are they not?

--- There are extensive descriptions of clothing and dress in the Bible Dictionary, and head coverings were worn by both men and women. --- It mentions caps, turbans, headbands, and scarves, --- but it does not mention veils, or show pictures of them being worn.

The interesting thing was that they wore different colors to describe who they were, and even their moods or feeling of joy or sadness, and within those colors would be the identity of their marital status. --- If a woman, in her clothing or headdress, identified that she was married and perhaps wore white for purity, when she was being unfaithful, --- the husband could initiate the following ‘lie detector’ test with the priest --- and the public would be a witness, --- and the final result, being made known by God, through her confession, or the evidence of her guilt, --- or her innocence through God revealing it through the test, and restoring her to her husband.

The twofold purpose of a public trial was to reveal the sin through humiliation of the guilty, --- and serve as a deterrent to others.

This is the context of the Scripture you have chosen in Numbers 5:

11 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,

12 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘If any man’s wife goes astray and behaves unfaithfully toward him,

13 and a man lies with her carnally, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and it is concealed that she has defiled herself, and there was no witness against her, nor was she caught—

14 if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him and he becomes jealous of his wife, who has defiled herself; or if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him and he becomes jealous of his wife, although she has not defiled herself—

15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest. He shall bring the offering required for her, one-tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, because it is a grain offering of jealousy, an offering for remembering, for bringing iniquity to remembrance.

16 ‘And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord.

17 The priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.

18 Then the priest shall stand the woman before the Lord, uncover the woman’s head, and put the offering for remembering in her hands, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that brings a curse.

19 And the priest shall put her under oath, and say to the woman, “If no man has lain with you, and if you have not gone astray to uncleanness while under your husband’s authority, be free from this bitter water that brings a curse.

20 But if you have gone astray while under your husband’s authority, and if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has lain with you”—

21 then the priest shall put the woman under the oath of the curse, and he shall say to the woman—“the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh rot and your belly swell;

22 and may this water that causes the curse go into your stomach, and make your belly swell and your thigh rot.”

‘Then the woman shall say, “Amen, so be it.”

23 ‘Then the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall s[Edited Out]e them off into the bitter water.

24 And he shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter her to become bitter.

25 Then the priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy from the woman’s hand, shall wave the offering before the Lord, and bring it to the altar;

26 and the priest shall take a handful of the offering, as its memorial portion, burn it on the altar, and afterward make the woman drink the water.

27 When he has made her drink the water, then it shall be, if she has defiled herself and behaved unfaithfully toward her husband, that the water that brings a curse will enter her and become bitter, and her belly will swell, her thigh will rot, and the woman will become a curse among her people.

28 But if the woman has not defiled herself, and is clean, then she shall be free and may conceive children.

29 ‘This is the law of jealousy, when a wife, while under her husband’s authority, goes astray and defiles herself,

30 or when the spirit of jealousy comes upon a man, and he becomes jealous of his wife; then he shall stand the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall execute all this law upon her.

31 Then the man shall be free from iniquity, but that woman shall bear her guilt.’”

--- There are a few verses that do mention veils, to look at later.

Placid

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Hi Placid

--- There are a few verses that do mention veils, to look at later.

From all the references you quoted from the OT , it is fair to say that all The Noble Ladies in the OT wore Hijab/Head covering .

The veil on the otherhand were worn in certain occasions.

It is also fair to say that a greater majority of Muslim women of today follow the dress code of the Noble Ladies mentioned in OT than

Christian Ladies of today.

You also find that Christian ladies of today put a greater emphasis on individual choice than on what God has revealed.

Regards

Soloman

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Hi Placid

From all the references you quoted from the OT , it is fair to say that all The Noble Ladies in the OT wore Hijab/Head covering .

The veil on the otherhand were worn in certain occasions.

It is also fair to say that a greater majority of Muslim women of today follow the dress code of the Noble Ladies mentioned in OT than

Christian Ladies of today.

You also find that Christian ladies of today put a greater emphasis on individual choice than on what God has revealed.

Regards

Soloman

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Hi Son of Placid

It is also very possible that the reason the noble ladies wore a form of head covering was because of the climate. If you live in a dry climate where you can easily become dehydrated losing much from your head it's a good idea to keep it covered. There's a good chance that even the not so noble ladies did the same.

A head covering - Hijab -is certainly a positive in dry climates.

But I don't think though ,the dry climate was a reason why these Noble Ladies wore a Hijab. It would be undermining their obedience

to God to suggest this as a possibility .

There are many people/Ladies across the globe who live in dry climates and they don't ware Hijab.

I also find that Christians tend to make light of their ladies wearing hijab ,so they make all kinds of excuses .

It is also possible that the lack of head covering among Christian ladies are due to -fashion minded - people, also this trend

is in the increase among Muslim ladies.

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Hi Son of Placid

A head covering - Hijab -is certainly a positive in dry climates.

But I don't think though ,the dry climate was a reason why these Noble Ladies wore a Hijab. It would be undermining their obedience

to God to suggest this as a possibility .

There are many people/Ladies across the globe who live in dry climates and they don't ware Hijab.

I also find that Christians tend to make light of their ladies wearing hijab ,so they make all kinds of excuses .

It is also possible that the lack of head covering among Christian ladies are due to -fashion minded - people, also this trend

is in the increase among Muslim ladies.

Some of the rules passed down from God were because people didn't know better. Hijab was for modesty, People and religion are full spectrum on this issue.

The stories I've heard about the commotion over a slipped lock of hair in Afghanistan, to string bikinis on all the NA beaches. . It's a messed up world.

Hijab is a fashion here, as colourfull and attractive as can be. It goes with tight jeans. Over here that is considered modest.

It's difficult to pass judgement with so many diverse beliefs around.

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It's difficult to pass judgement with so many diverse beliefs around.

Certainly we are not in a position to pass judgement on others. Everyone have to follow their own set of beliefs ,as long as it

does not infringe on the rights of others.

As Jesus says in Luke :6 -41 " Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brothers eye and pay no attention to the

plank in your own eye ?"

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Hi Soloman,

I am sorry, I had said that the only verse in Genesis that mentioned a veil was the verse about Rebekah, but I found that the word was mentioned again later in a different setting.

--- The other verse you mentioned in Post 16 was this from Isaiah 47:

Quote: Isaiah - 47:2 , " Take millstones and grind flour ,take off your VEIL, lift up your SKIRTS bare your LEGS, and wade through the

streams. Your NAKEDNESS will be exposed and your SHAME uncovered. I will take vengence , I will spare no one."

However, if you read it in context, it is spoken against the wicked city of Babylon.

46:12 “Listen to Me, you stubborn-hearted,

Who are far from righteousness:

13 I bring My righteousness near, it shall not be far off;

My salvation shall not linger.

And I will place salvation in Zion,

For Israel My glory.

47:1. “Come down and sit in the dust,

O virgin daughter of Babylon;

Sit on the ground without a throne,

O daughter of the Chaldeans!

For you shall no more be called

Tender and delicate.

2 Take the millstones and grind meal.

Remove your veil,

Take off the skirt,

Uncover the thigh,

Pass through the rivers.

3 Your nakedness shall be uncovered,

Yes, your shame will be seen;

I will take vengeance,

--- When it says they were all unrighteous, and then says, “O virgin daughter of Babylon,”

It speaks of one who wears a veil, the symbol of innocence and purity, as a virgin, --- yet Babylon was wicked and was being put to shame, because they were “Stubborn hearted and far from righteousness.”

--- So the veil, if it stood for innocence and purity, as it did with Rebekah, then this was gross hypocrisy.

There is a mention in the Song of Solomon which may have symbolized purity, and it is written in poetic form in 5:

4. My beloved put his hand

By the latch of the door,

And my heart yearned for him.

5 I arose to open for my beloved,

6. I opened for my beloved,

But my beloved had turned away and was gone.

My heart leaped up when he spoke.

I sought him, but I could not find him;

I called him, but he gave me no answer.

7 The watchmen who went about the city found me.

They struck me, they wounded me;

The keepers of the walls

Took my veil away from me.

--- (The thought is, of a lonely girl out at night to seek her beloved, and the ‘watchmen’ of the city, --- who should have protected her, --- instead ‘struck her and wounded her and took away her veil.’

--- So this again could have been a sign of her innocence and purity.

If we look back at the Scripture that Christianlady gave in Post 1, for Paul’s instruction to the Church at Corinth, we can understand it a little better in light of Numbers 5. --- This is from 1 Corinthians 11:

4. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.

5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.

6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

--- In the wicked city of Corinth, the prostitutes went bare headed, ---perhaps with their hair made attractive, --- as many women do today. --- (Today it is not necessarily to attract men, but to identify favorably with other women.)

However, --- so that the Christian women would not be mistaken for the prostitutes, Paul gave the solution that they should all cover their heads, and especially when praying or prophesying in the presence of men.

--- It could have been used simply as a reminder relating to Numbers 5, --- where, if a woman was unfaithful to her husband, the priest would uncover her head. --- And the husband could have her shorn as a shame and punishment to her,

--- (There were no NT rules like that, so it could only be a reminder of early Jewish law.)

--- (A woman’s glory is her hair, but she is not to flaunt it, as though she was attracting men as the harlots no doubt did. --- So Paul said, --- wear a hat to avoid the confusion.)

--- This was the only Church that was instructed to wear hats, or head coverings, --- although they perhaps did in many places as a custom, but not as a law.

A number of years ago in our local Churches, many women wore hats, and some still do, --- by their own preference.

I was watching Joel Osteen on Sunday from Huston Texas, and in their great auditorium, as they showed part of the crowd, I could see a few hats.

--- It was this kind of external law that Jesus removed, --- the laws that have nothing to do with the soul’s salvation. He gave the new Law of Love which controls the heart.

If one has faith in God and love in their heart, their life will be balanced and they will keep the external laws in obedience to God, --- however, if there was a reason to wear hats as they were instructed to do in Corinth, then that becomes a custom for them to follow.

As I said before, I have no problem with a hijab or head scarf of black or white, or various colors, and I don’t attach any message because of the color, --- maybe there is some meaning, but I don’t even consider that, if there is.

--- I admire the women or girls for their modesty and accept them as Muslims. --- At the same time there may be others who walk by who are also Muslim but who wear street clothes and no hijab, so they are not identified.

--- We also see Catholic Sisters who are dressed in their usual black ‘habit’ on the street, and in a hospital you may see them similarly dressed in white, --- also they may be seen at other times in street clothes.

In Checking the internet on the Hijab it said this on Wikipedia:

Quote: According to Islamic scholarship, hijab is given the wider meaning of modesty, privacy, and morality

Muslims differ on the necessity of the hijab. It is required on women in public in countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia, but is banned in schools in France, Turkey and formerly also in Tunisia. Wearing a hijab is left for individuals to decide in most of the world.

I agree with you when you say, “ It is also possible that the lack of head covering among Christian ladies are due to -fashion minded - people, also this trend is in the increase among Muslim ladies.”

--- Yes, sad to say, --- but immodesty has so taken over society that fashions are becoming extreme in order to attract attention and increase the clothing lines for sale. --- So the world has moved away from God to such a degree that Christian and Muslim young people certainly have hard choices to make.

My personal dress code would be that all men and women should generally be covered from the knee, to the neck, to the elbow. (With perhaps the many occupational and other exceptions.)

Placid

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Hi Placid

Hi Soloman,

I am sorry, I had said that the only verse in Genesis that mentioned a veil was the verse about Rebekah, but I found that the word was mentioned again later in a different setting.

Well ,the word was used in another setting -

Song of Songs : 1-7

Tell me ,you whom I love, where are you grazing your flock and where you rest your sheep at midday, why should I be like

a VEILED woman beside the flocks of your friends.

--- So the veil, if it stood for innocence and purity, as it did with Rebekah, then this was gross hypocrisy.

God fearing women will certainly wear veil/hijab ,as all noble ladies of old has done.

But you also find hypocrites adorning the same dress - it was probably in this context that the Babylonians were refered to.

--- In the wicked city of Corinth, the prostitutes went bare headed, ---perhaps with their hair made attractive, --- as many women do today. --- (Today it is not necessarily to attract men, but to identify favorably with other women.)

So you find no difference between prostitutes of Corinth and many Christian ladies and to a lessor degree Muslim ladies in their dress today.

Paul went to the land of the Gentiles --- Instead of reforming the people in ways of God , he bent Gods words/rules and gave his

own interpretation, hence we find Christians of today living /dressing in this way.

This is from 1 Corinthians 11: 4. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.

This is a classical example of Paul's manipulation of the scripture - this is his own interpretation of the scripture to the Gentile community he went.

What references do Paul quote from the scripture to back his understanding?

Let me quote to you the ways of one whom God loved and made an everlasting covenant with ,compare this with Paul's --who was only a

normal man , not a prophet only one who interpreted God's ways to his own understanding.

2 Samuel 15:30

But David continued up the Mount of Olives, weeping as he went, his HEAD was COVERED and he was barefoot. All the people with him COVERED

their HEADS too and were weeping as they went up. Now David had been told,"Ahithophel is coming the conspirators with Absalom".

So David PRAYED, " O Lord , turn Ahithophel's council into foolishness.

Did David dishonor his head when prayed with his head covered?

Regards

Soloman

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Quote: So you find no difference between prostitutes of Corinth and many Christian ladies and to a lessor degree Muslim ladies in their dress today.

Oops, --- where did that come from.

--- As I said, the only application of this instruction was to the Church in Corinth, because of their confusion at the time. It was not repeated in Paul's letters to other Churches. --- The custom of ladies wearing hats in Church may have come from there, but men and women have always worn head covering, or gone bareheaded, whatever the custom or desire. --- It's a non-issue, is it not?

I see that the mention of Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, arouses your unjust accusations of division, so, I think it would be good to give some of these contradictions on the 'contradictions' topic, so we can examine the Scriptures you object to.

Paul's letters to the Churches were always in the Canon of Scripture, and they were there when the 'confirmation' of the former Scriptures were given in Surah 3:3-4, in 625 AD.

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Hi Placid

Quote: So you find no difference between prostitutes of Corinth and many Christian ladies and to a lessor degree Muslim ladies in their dress today.

Oops, --- where did that come from.

--- As I said, the only application of this instruction was to the Church in Corinth, because of their confusion at the time. It was not repeated in Paul's letters to other Churches. --- The custom of ladies wearing hats in Church may have come from there, but men and women have always worn head covering, or gone bareheaded, whatever the custom or desire. --- It's a non-issue, is it not?

I see that the mention of Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, arouses your unjust accusations of division, so, I think it would be good to give some of these contradictions on the 'contradictions' topic, so we can examine the Scriptures you object to.

Paul's letters to the Churches were always in the Canon of Scripture, and they were there when the 'confirmation' of the former Scriptures were given in Surah 3:3-4, in 625 AD.

Certainly wearing the veil, hijap or men covering their head is a personal preference at the end of the day.

It also boils down to your own conviction and everybody need to research how God intended them to present themselves.

Soloman

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Simple, the feminist movement. I always see Christian women in very short skirts, chests popping out, etc. Is this what Jesus as taught? The hijab is more than a head covering, it is the way you carry yourself. It is how you cloak not only your entire body but also the way you act. Christian women in the 1800s wore modest clothes. Their arms weren't showing. Their legs were showing. Now women show everything. I am 100% sure that Christian women at the time of Jesus dressed very similar or maybe even exact to how Muslim women dress.

also refer to my sig=]

I was a Seventh-Day Adventist before I came to Islam. Basically for every Christian denomination there are the "conservative's" and the "liberals". My family was conservative, but maybe another family was liberal. Also bear in mind, just like in any other religion there are those who just label themselves but do not truly follow what they supposedly believe.

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In reply concerning The Noble Ladies of the Jewish or Israeli people wearing a veil to cover their face it should be noted that in Genesis chapter 38 and verses 14-19 the daughter-in-law of Judah son of Abrahams son Isaac in verse 14 kjv"She put her widows garments off from her, and covered her with a veil, and wrapped herself, and set is open place which is by the way to Timnath. ..." In verse 15, "When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face. " In verse 19, it says, "And she arose, and went away, and laid by her veil from her, and put on the garments of her widowhood." But in chapter 29 Jacob did not realize that Leah had been given him in marriage and not Rachel until the morning came (verse25). So obviously the veil or something was used to cover Leah's face at her wedding to make her unknown until the morning. So it seems that virgins being married wore veils to cover their face but a woman who wore a veil and sat in an open place was a harlot or prostitute. And that widows and in the case of Sara in chapter 12 of Genesis as aforementioned in a previous post a married woman did not cover her face. A veil covering the head but not the face.

In the pentecostal holiness movement the women do not wear either because of the aforementioned 1 Corinthians 11 where the Apostle Paul cites nature when he says in verses14-15 KJV" Doth not even nature itself teach you, that,if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?But if a women have long hair it is a glory to her:for her hair is given to her for a covering." The women wear long hair and the men have short hair so we feel we are in accordance with God's Word. Also this theory of the meaning of this scripture is in accordance with the Jewish custom of men having short hair but wearing a prayer cap. Tbey are not dishonouring their head if they wear a hat because their hair is short. I don't remember seeing a Rabbi with long hair. Another thing was mentioned about the Nazarite vow. While under a Nazarite vow, an Israelite did not cut his hair but at the end of his time promised he had to shave not just cut but shave his head and offer the hair in a sacrifice. He could not keep the long hair afterwards. This is why Samson in the book of Judges lost his strength after Delilah cut his hair. He was to be a Nazarite from birth till death. In other words he was to be dedicated to God from birth to death for a Nazarite was making a vow of dedication when he went under the vow. The Apostle Paul did this in the New Testament. Delilah cut Samsons hair and God took his strength because he had broken his vow to God by telling her that if she cut his hair he would lose his strength when he knew she wanted him to lose his strength (see previous verses). So he in essence willingly broke his vow.

Some people confuse the verse in Matthew chapter 2 verse 23 to mean that Jesus was under a Nazarite vow and therefore would have had long hair. But Jesus was a Nazarene because he dwealt in Nazareth just like the Samaritan woman was from Samaria and the Canaanite woman was from Canaan.

It seems reasonable to think that if the soldiers plucked his beard at the crucifixion then they certainly would have ripped his hair out if he had long hair. But none of the gospel accounts of the crucifixion note that. Though it would have been just as horrendous an experience and just as well noted when his disciples saw him afterward.

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Also in answer to the question of why "supposedly christian" women dress immodestly. I believe a lot of the problem is due to the femminist movement. Women who were not christians in heart did not want to be in subjection to there husbands authority any longer so they wanted a way to show their supposed freedom. Unfortunately many of the women today have been taught this abhorrence of authority and find it hard to subject themselves to God or man. If a woman wears a garment that draws attention to her body in a way that causes lustful thoughts in another petson whether. that woman is Muslim or Christian then she is defrauding that man if he is not her husband because she isn't supposed to have lustful relations with anyone but her husband. Solomon said be ravished with the wife of thy youth and not in another. So Placids preference of man or woman being covered from the knees to the neck to the elbows is a good one to me. Though i prefer to cover down past the knees and most all the time past the elbows. :-) But not everyone has reached the level of sanctification that compels them to dress to that level of modesty unfortunately . So in most cases if not all I would say that a women whose neckline shows much more than her neck then at some point she is liable to be showing something that will cause lust and she is responsible even if she doesn't want to be. If a watchman would and will be held accountable in judgement for not warning the one in danger of sinning or in the middle of sin then surely a person who causes another to sin by their action OR dress will be held accountable if they do not confess and repent.

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Simple, the feminist movement. I always see Christian women in very short skirts, chests popping out, etc. Is this what Jesus as taught? The hijab is more than a head covering, it is the way you carry yourself. It is how you cloak not only your entire body but also the way you act. Christian women in the 1800s wore modest clothes. Their arms weren't showing. Their legs were showing. Now women show everything. I am 100% sure that Christian women at the time of Jesus dressed very similar or maybe even exact to how Muslim women dress.

also refer to my sig=]

 

I think it has more to do with what is fashionable, not feminism.  Once something becomes in fashion, it is socially acceptable to wear.  

Read this if you are interested: http://glamourdaze.com/history-of-womens-fashion

I was a Seventh-Day Adventist before I came to Islam. Basically for every Christian denomination there are the "conservative's" and the "liberals". My family was conservative, but maybe another family was liberal. Also bear in mind, just like in any other religion there are those who just label themselves but do not truly follow what they supposedly believe.

For some reasons Muslims on this forum have a problem understanding people that there are people who are only nominally a part of a religion, except when it comes to nominal Muslims...

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So in most cases if not all I would say that a women whose neckline shows much more than her neck then at some point she is liable to be showing something that will cause lust and she is responsible even if she doesn't want to be. 

 

My Internet news agency speaks very proudly of women 'baring their all', to paraphrase their words.  Also, it seems that in this day and age, no one wants to assume the role of an admonisher, as people used to perhaps even a hundred years ago. In fact, anyone speaking against the trend is seen as an enemy of the 'choice' movement. Those 'baring their all' are therefore greatly encouraged by all the publicity which in turn feeds into greater acceptance by society of all their stupid actions.

 

And it becomes more and more and more acceptable  - for ever more. 

Edited by PeaceLoving

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Certainly we are not in a position to pass judgement on others. Everyone have to follow their own set of beliefs ,as long as it

does not infringe on the rights of others.

As Jesus says in Luke :6 -41 " Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brothers eye and pay no attention to the

plank in your own eye ?"

Interesting to hear that from a Muslim. Normally I hear that if someone is obviously doing wrong you can pass judgement and have a right to intercede.

 

As noted, Christians don't have that specific right. Of course we have our own subtle ways of suggesting ;)

My Internet news agency speaks very proudly of women 'baring their all', to paraphrase their words.  Also, it seems that in this day and age, no one wants to assume the role of an admonisher, as people used to perhaps even a hundred years ago. In fact, anyone speaking against the trend is seen as an enemy of the 'choice' movement. Those 'baring their all' are therefore greatly encouraged by all the publicity which in turn feeds into greater acceptance by society of all their stupid actions.

 

And it becomes more and more and more acceptable  - for ever more. 

Oh man...Since the 70's you haven't been allowed to speak out on your own and oppose what satan has endorsed.

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