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In the Name of God بسم الله
Christianlady

Why Most Christian Ladies Do Not Wear Hijab

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Hi Soloman,

It seems like our Lady may be away again, but in the meantime, I have some questions and they are concerning the difference of covering for the body, for the face, and for the head, which also covers the hair.

Quote from Post 16:

The veiling of woman began in the beginning ,Genesis 3:21

"The Lord God made Garments for Adam and his WIFE and CLOTHED them "

Now this might not be a convincing revelation but it set the standard of dress by the Israelite women - it became their culture.

It became their culture not by chance ,but because God covered their mother Eve. GENESIS :3-21

Response: --- Genesis 3:21, The NIV says, “The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and Eve and clothed them.”

The NKJ says, “Also for Adam and Eve the Lord made tunics of skin, and clothed them.”

--- Does it not say that God clothed both Adam and Eve the same?

--- And it was the wearing of clothing for them both that was the requirement of God, --- and therefore it has been the culture or custom for men and women to wear clothing in every society, --- has it not?

Quote: So you find Rebekah also wore the veil - she dressed in a way that God dressed her mother Eve and all other Israelite women.

Response: --- Rebekah would be clothed as all women were, and as her Great Ancestors, Adam and Eve were,--- but in clothing to cover her body.

--- Years before Rebekah, when Abraham and Sarah went down to Egypt, this happened in Genesis 12:

11. And it came to pass, when he was close to entering Egypt, that he said to Sarai his wife, “Indeed I know that you are a woman of beautiful countenance.

12 Therefore it will happen, when the Egyptians see you, that they will say, ‘This is his wife’; and they will kill me, but they will let you live.

--- This shows that Sarah did not wear a veil either when they travelled, or when they met company, --- or Abraham would not have been worried when they saw her ‘countenance,‘ which means her face.

--- So, where are the supporting verses for Israelite women wearing veils?

They may have had veils, and might have worn them on occasions --- as the bride does at a wedding, and as the bereaved and sympathizers do at funerals, --- which is customary in our society today.

Quote: In GENESIS: 24-65 , "Rebekah took her veil and covered herself when Isaac approached "

Clearly from this revelation we find that Rebekah veiled herself - why - because through the generations that preceded her she and all Israelite women followed their ancestor Eve ,whom God have clothed.

Response: --- Abraham sent his servant to the city of his brother Nahor in Mesopotamia, to get a wife for Isaac. An angel went before them and prepared the way. The story is told in Genesis 24.

--- So Rebekah came to the well and fulfilled the sign that the servant was given. --- She was the daughter of Bethuel, son of Milkah, the wife of Nahor, Abraham’s brother.

She was not wearing a veil when she watered the camels, --- she would not have been wearing a veil in her father’s house later with her mother and the other women, the maids and servants.

--- She was not wearing a veil as she travelled with Abraham’s servant, but when she saw someone coming, she asked who it was, and the servant said, “It is Isaac.”

64. ‘She dismounted from her camel.’

65. ‘She took a veil and covered herself.’

--- She perhaps wanted to create a little ‘mystique’ in meeting her future husband. --- She may have been thinking as a woman would, “I want to have a look at you before you have a look at me.” --- so it may have just been a tactic of romance, --- Or it may have been the custom --- which may have started the tradition that we have today in weddings.

--- That the groom shouldn’t see the bride on the day of the wedding until he meets her at the alter where she may be wearing a light veil, --- not intended to cover her face, but only to show the temporary separation, until the veil is lifted, or removed.

Did you know that this incident with Rebekah is the first time the word ‘veil’ is used in the Bible, and the only time in Genesis?

---The wearing of a veil seemed to have no history in Scripture before this occasion.

(Enough for now)--- (The next verse involves some interesting verses.)

Placid

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Hi Anwark,

There is no problem with the wearing of the hijab. It may be part of dressing modestly, or being part of their religious custom even as the Nuns or Sisters of the Catholic Church wear theit head covering.

--- However, when they are not in their uniform they dress in modest street clothes.

In colder climates, the women wear headscarves or caps, so that can become a custom as well.

Many women wear hats of some kind for style, so it is up to the custom or desire of the individual in that case. Some women still wear a hat in a Church service, where it is not a requirement but has been a custom in years gome by.

Where hijabs are the requirement,or custom, then they are to be worn, but women should not have to live in fear of some violation. I have read that in some restrictive Muslim cultures, if a few strands of hair are showing outside of the hijab, the woman would be arrested. --- I guess the simple solution would be to cut the hair a little shorter so that wouldn't happen accidentally.

The discussion above is about veils, which cover the face, --- which is different than covering the head, or the hair.

--- However, you recognize people by their face, or their countenance,--- whether they do or don't have a head covering, isn't that right?

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Hi Placid

herself.’ --- She perhaps wanted to create a little ‘mystique’ in meeting her future husband. --- She may have been thinking as a woman would, “I want to have a look at you before you have a look at me.” --- so it may have just been a tactic of romance, --- Or it may have been the custom --- which may have started the tradition that we have today in weddings. --- That the groom shouldn’t see the bride on the day of the wedding until he meets her at the alter where she may be wearing a light veil, --- not intended to cover her face, but only to show the temporary separation, until the veil is lifted, or removed.

This is speculation and conjecture.

As for the veiling of the face - we have to leave it to those who want to follow that understanding of revelation.

But the hijab / head covering was the standard of dress for all the Noble Ladies of old.

Regards

Soloman

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Hi,

Quote: The following is a revelation to support the knowledge that Israelite women veiled themselves and was passed down through

generations from the time of Eve.

Numbers - 5:18 " and the priest shall set the women before the Lord , and uncover the woman's head"

Response: --- This next verse, Numbers 5:18, speaks of the strict measures taken to keep the Children of Israel pure by giving them instructions on how to deal with each situation. --- The idea was that if a person was guilty of a sexual crime and the two involved were trying to conceal it, --- then God would see that it was revealed, to prove guilt or innocence.

This speaks of a head covering that was removed, but there is no mention of a veil that covers the face. --- The significance of a hijab suggests, --- modesty, privacy and morality, --- so, if a married woman was pretending to be innocent and was wearing either a symbol, or the color of purity, --- it was a sin against God as well as her husband.

However, --- they are two different things, --- a covering for the head, --- and a veil over the face, are they not?

--- There are extensive descriptions of clothing and dress in the Bible Dictionary, and head coverings were worn by both men and women. --- It mentions caps, turbans, headbands, and scarves, --- but it does not mention veils, or show pictures of them being worn.

The interesting thing was that they wore different colors to describe who they were, and even their moods or feeling of joy or sadness, and within those colors would be the identity of their marital status. --- If a woman, in her clothing or headdress, identified that she was married and perhaps wore white for purity, when she was being unfaithful, --- the husband could initiate the following ‘lie detector’ test with the priest --- and the public would be a witness, --- and the final result, being made known by God, through her confession, or the evidence of her guilt, --- or her innocence through God revealing it through the test, and restoring her to her husband.

The twofold purpose of a public trial was to reveal the sin through humiliation of the guilty, --- and serve as a deterrent to others.

This is the context of the Scripture you have chosen in Numbers 5:

11 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,

12 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘If any man’s wife goes astray and behaves unfaithfully toward him,

13 and a man lies with her carnally, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and it is concealed that she has defiled herself, and there was no witness against her, nor was she caught—

14 if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him and he becomes jealous of his wife, who has defiled herself; or if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him and he becomes jealous of his wife, although she has not defiled herself—

15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest. He shall bring the offering required for her, one-tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, because it is a grain offering of jealousy, an offering for remembering, for bringing iniquity to remembrance.

16 ‘And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord.

17 The priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.

18 Then the priest shall stand the woman before the Lord, uncover the woman’s head, and put the offering for remembering in her hands, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that brings a curse.

19 And the priest shall put her under oath, and say to the woman, “If no man has lain with you, and if you have not gone astray to uncleanness while under your husband’s authority, be free from this bitter water that brings a curse.

20 But if you have gone astray while under your husband’s authority, and if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has lain with you”—

21 then the priest shall put the woman under the oath of the curse, and he shall say to the woman—“the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh rot and your belly swell;

22 and may this water that causes the curse go into your stomach, and make your belly swell and your thigh rot.”

‘Then the woman shall say, “Amen, so be it.”

23 ‘Then the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall s[Edited Out]e them off into the bitter water.

24 And he shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter her to become bitter.

25 Then the priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy from the woman’s hand, shall wave the offering before the Lord, and bring it to the altar;

26 and the priest shall take a handful of the offering, as its memorial portion, burn it on the altar, and afterward make the woman drink the water.

27 When he has made her drink the water, then it shall be, if she has defiled herself and behaved unfaithfully toward her husband, that the water that brings a curse will enter her and become bitter, and her belly will swell, her thigh will rot, and the woman will become a curse among her people.

28 But if the woman has not defiled herself, and is clean, then she shall be free and may conceive children.

29 ‘This is the law of jealousy, when a wife, while under her husband’s authority, goes astray and defiles herself,

30 or when the spirit of jealousy comes upon a man, and he becomes jealous of his wife; then he shall stand the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall execute all this law upon her.

31 Then the man shall be free from iniquity, but that woman shall bear her guilt.’”

--- There are a few verses that do mention veils, to look at later.

Placid

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Hi Placid

--- There are a few verses that do mention veils, to look at later.

From all the references you quoted from the OT , it is fair to say that all The Noble Ladies in the OT wore Hijab/Head covering .

The veil on the otherhand were worn in certain occasions.

It is also fair to say that a greater majority of Muslim women of today follow the dress code of the Noble Ladies mentioned in OT than

Christian Ladies of today.

You also find that Christian ladies of today put a greater emphasis on individual choice than on what God has revealed.

Regards

Soloman

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Hi Placid

From all the references you quoted from the OT , it is fair to say that all The Noble Ladies in the OT wore Hijab/Head covering .

The veil on the otherhand were worn in certain occasions.

It is also fair to say that a greater majority of Muslim women of today follow the dress code of the Noble Ladies mentioned in OT than

Christian Ladies of today.

You also find that Christian ladies of today put a greater emphasis on individual choice than on what God has revealed.

Regards

Soloman

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Hi Son of Placid

It is also very possible that the reason the noble ladies wore a form of head covering was because of the climate. If you live in a dry climate where you can easily become dehydrated losing much from your head it's a good idea to keep it covered. There's a good chance that even the not so noble ladies did the same.

A head covering - Hijab -is certainly a positive in dry climates.

But I don't think though ,the dry climate was a reason why these Noble Ladies wore a Hijab. It would be undermining their obedience

to God to suggest this as a possibility .

There are many people/Ladies across the globe who live in dry climates and they don't ware Hijab.

I also find that Christians tend to make light of their ladies wearing hijab ,so they make all kinds of excuses .

It is also possible that the lack of head covering among Christian ladies are due to -fashion minded - people, also this trend

is in the increase among Muslim ladies.

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Hi Son of Placid

A head covering - Hijab -is certainly a positive in dry climates.

But I don't think though ,the dry climate was a reason why these Noble Ladies wore a Hijab. It would be undermining their obedience

to God to suggest this as a possibility .

There are many people/Ladies across the globe who live in dry climates and they don't ware Hijab.

I also find that Christians tend to make light of their ladies wearing hijab ,so they make all kinds of excuses .

It is also possible that the lack of head covering among Christian ladies are due to -fashion minded - people, also this trend

is in the increase among Muslim ladies.

Some of the rules passed down from God were because people didn't know better. Hijab was for modesty, People and religion are full spectrum on this issue.

The stories I've heard about the commotion over a slipped lock of hair in Afghanistan, to string bikinis on all the NA beaches. . It's a messed up world.

Hijab is a fashion here, as colourfull and attractive as can be. It goes with tight jeans. Over here that is considered modest.

It's difficult to pass judgement with so many diverse beliefs around.

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It's difficult to pass judgement with so many diverse beliefs around.

Certainly we are not in a position to pass judgement on others. Everyone have to follow their own set of beliefs ,as long as it

does not infringe on the rights of others.

As Jesus says in Luke :6 -41 " Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brothers eye and pay no attention to the

plank in your own eye ?"

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Hi Soloman,

I am sorry, I had said that the only verse in Genesis that mentioned a veil was the verse about Rebekah, but I found that the word was mentioned again later in a different setting.

--- The other verse you mentioned in Post 16 was this from Isaiah 47:

Quote: Isaiah - 47:2 , " Take millstones and grind flour ,take off your VEIL, lift up your SKIRTS bare your LEGS, and wade through the

streams. Your NAKEDNESS will be exposed and your SHAME uncovered. I will take vengence , I will spare no one."

However, if you read it in context, it is spoken against the wicked city of Babylon.

46:12 “Listen to Me, you stubborn-hearted,

Who are far from righteousness:

13 I bring My righteousness near, it shall not be far off;

My salvation shall not linger.

And I will place salvation in Zion,

For Israel My glory.

47:1. “Come down and sit in the dust,

O virgin daughter of Babylon;

Sit on the ground without a throne,

O daughter of the Chaldeans!

For you shall no more be called

Tender and delicate.

2 Take the millstones and grind meal.

Remove your veil,

Take off the skirt,

Uncover the thigh,

Pass through the rivers.

3 Your nakedness shall be uncovered,

Yes, your shame will be seen;

I will take vengeance,

--- When it says they were all unrighteous, and then says, “O virgin daughter of Babylon,”

It speaks of one who wears a veil, the symbol of innocence and purity, as a virgin, --- yet Babylon was wicked and was being put to shame, because they were “Stubborn hearted and far from righteousness.”

--- So the veil, if it stood for innocence and purity, as it did with Rebekah, then this was gross hypocrisy.

There is a mention in the Song of Solomon which may have symbolized purity, and it is written in poetic form in 5:

4. My beloved put his hand

By the latch of the door,

And my heart yearned for him.

5 I arose to open for my beloved,

6. I opened for my beloved,

But my beloved had turned away and was gone.

My heart leaped up when he spoke.

I sought him, but I could not find him;

I called him, but he gave me no answer.

7 The watchmen who went about the city found me.

They struck me, they wounded me;

The keepers of the walls

Took my veil away from me.

--- (The thought is, of a lonely girl out at night to seek her beloved, and the ‘watchmen’ of the city, --- who should have protected her, --- instead ‘struck her and wounded her and took away her veil.’

--- So this again could have been a sign of her innocence and purity.

If we look back at the Scripture that Christianlady gave in Post 1, for Paul’s instruction to the Church at Corinth, we can understand it a little better in light of Numbers 5. --- This is from 1 Corinthians 11:

4. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.

5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.

6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

--- In the wicked city of Corinth, the prostitutes went bare headed, ---perhaps with their hair made attractive, --- as many women do today. --- (Today it is not necessarily to attract men, but to identify favorably with other women.)

However, --- so that the Christian women would not be mistaken for the prostitutes, Paul gave the solution that they should all cover their heads, and especially when praying or prophesying in the presence of men.

--- It could have been used simply as a reminder relating to Numbers 5, --- where, if a woman was unfaithful to her husband, the priest would uncover her head. --- And the husband could have her shorn as a shame and punishment to her,

--- (There were no NT rules like that, so it could only be a reminder of early Jewish law.)

--- (A woman’s glory is her hair, but she is not to flaunt it, as though she was attracting men as the harlots no doubt did. --- So Paul said, --- wear a hat to avoid the confusion.)

--- This was the only Church that was instructed to wear hats, or head coverings, --- although they perhaps did in many places as a custom, but not as a law.

A number of years ago in our local Churches, many women wore hats, and some still do, --- by their own preference.

I was watching Joel Osteen on Sunday from Huston Texas, and in their great auditorium, as they showed part of the crowd, I could see a few hats.

--- It was this kind of external law that Jesus removed, --- the laws that have nothing to do with the soul’s salvation. He gave the new Law of Love which controls the heart.

If one has faith in God and love in their heart, their life will be balanced and they will keep the external laws in obedience to God, --- however, if there was a reason to wear hats as they were instructed to do in Corinth, then that becomes a custom for them to follow.

As I said before, I have no problem with a hijab or head scarf of black or white, or various colors, and I don’t attach any message because of the color, --- maybe there is some meaning, but I don’t even consider that, if there is.

--- I admire the women or girls for their modesty and accept them as Muslims. --- At the same time there may be others who walk by who are also Muslim but who wear street clothes and no hijab, so they are not identified.

--- We also see Catholic Sisters who are dressed in their usual black ‘habit’ on the street, and in a hospital you may see them similarly dressed in white, --- also they may be seen at other times in street clothes.

In Checking the internet on the Hijab it said this on Wikipedia:

Quote: According to Islamic scholarship, hijab is given the wider meaning of modesty, privacy, and morality

Muslims differ on the necessity of the hijab. It is required on women in public in countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia, but is banned in schools in France, Turkey and formerly also in Tunisia. Wearing a hijab is left for individuals to decide in most of the world.

I agree with you when you say, “ It is also possible that the lack of head covering among Christian ladies are due to -fashion minded - people, also this trend is in the increase among Muslim ladies.”

--- Yes, sad to say, --- but immodesty has so taken over society that fashions are becoming extreme in order to attract attention and increase the clothing lines for sale. --- So the world has moved away from God to such a degree that Christian and Muslim young people certainly have hard choices to make.

My personal dress code would be that all men and women should generally be covered from the knee, to the neck, to the elbow. (With perhaps the many occupational and other exceptions.)

Placid

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Hi Placid

Hi Soloman,

I am sorry, I had said that the only verse in Genesis that mentioned a veil was the verse about Rebekah, but I found that the word was mentioned again later in a different setting.

Well ,the word was used in another setting -

Song of Songs : 1-7

Tell me ,you whom I love, where are you grazing your flock and where you rest your sheep at midday, why should I be like

a VEILED woman beside the flocks of your friends.

--- So the veil, if it stood for innocence and purity, as it did with Rebekah, then this was gross hypocrisy.

God fearing women will certainly wear veil/hijab ,as all noble ladies of old has done.

But you also find hypocrites adorning the same dress - it was probably in this context that the Babylonians were refered to.

--- In the wicked city of Corinth, the prostitutes went bare headed, ---perhaps with their hair made attractive, --- as many women do today. --- (Today it is not necessarily to attract men, but to identify favorably with other women.)

So you find no difference between prostitutes of Corinth and many Christian ladies and to a lessor degree Muslim ladies in their dress today.

Paul went to the land of the Gentiles --- Instead of reforming the people in ways of God , he bent Gods words/rules and gave his

own interpretation, hence we find Christians of today living /dressing in this way.

This is from 1 Corinthians 11: 4. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.

This is a classical example of Paul's manipulation of the scripture - this is his own interpretation of the scripture to the Gentile community he went.

What references do Paul quote from the scripture to back his understanding?

Let me quote to you the ways of one whom God loved and made an everlasting covenant with ,compare this with Paul's --who was only a

normal man , not a prophet only one who interpreted God's ways to his own understanding.

2 Samuel 15:30

But David continued up the Mount of Olives, weeping as he went, his HEAD was COVERED and he was barefoot. All the people with him COVERED

their HEADS too and were weeping as they went up. Now David had been told,"Ahithophel is coming the conspirators with Absalom".

So David PRAYED, " O Lord , turn Ahithophel's council into foolishness.

Did David dishonor his head when prayed with his head covered?

Regards

Soloman

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Quote: So you find no difference between prostitutes of Corinth and many Christian ladies and to a lessor degree Muslim ladies in their dress today.

Oops, --- where did that come from.

--- As I said, the only application of this instruction was to the Church in Corinth, because of their confusion at the time. It was not repeated in Paul's letters to other Churches. --- The custom of ladies wearing hats in Church may have come from there, but men and women have always worn head covering, or gone bareheaded, whatever the custom or desire. --- It's a non-issue, is it not?

I see that the mention of Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, arouses your unjust accusations of division, so, I think it would be good to give some of these contradictions on the 'contradictions' topic, so we can examine the Scriptures you object to.

Paul's letters to the Churches were always in the Canon of Scripture, and they were there when the 'confirmation' of the former Scriptures were given in Surah 3:3-4, in 625 AD.

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Hi Placid

Quote: So you find no difference between prostitutes of Corinth and many Christian ladies and to a lessor degree Muslim ladies in their dress today.

Oops, --- where did that come from.

--- As I said, the only application of this instruction was to the Church in Corinth, because of their confusion at the time. It was not repeated in Paul's letters to other Churches. --- The custom of ladies wearing hats in Church may have come from there, but men and women have always worn head covering, or gone bareheaded, whatever the custom or desire. --- It's a non-issue, is it not?

I see that the mention of Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, arouses your unjust accusations of division, so, I think it would be good to give some of these contradictions on the 'contradictions' topic, so we can examine the Scriptures you object to.

Paul's letters to the Churches were always in the Canon of Scripture, and they were there when the 'confirmation' of the former Scriptures were given in Surah 3:3-4, in 625 AD.

Certainly wearing the veil, hijap or men covering their head is a personal preference at the end of the day.

It also boils down to your own conviction and everybody need to research how God intended them to present themselves.

Soloman

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Simple, the feminist movement. I always see Christian women in very short skirts, chests popping out, etc. Is this what Jesus as taught? The hijab is more than a head covering, it is the way you carry yourself. It is how you cloak not only your entire body but also the way you act. Christian women in the 1800s wore modest clothes. Their arms weren't showing. Their legs were showing. Now women show everything. I am 100% sure that Christian women at the time of Jesus dressed very similar or maybe even exact to how Muslim women dress.

also refer to my sig=]

I was a Seventh-Day Adventist before I came to Islam. Basically for every Christian denomination there are the "conservative's" and the "liberals". My family was conservative, but maybe another family was liberal. Also bear in mind, just like in any other religion there are those who just label themselves but do not truly follow what they supposedly believe.

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