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biddah - innovation

taraweeh namaz

banning nikah mutah'

the word rashidun caliph

skipping ali an wali Allah in aazan,namaz,shahada

the number 4 - rashidun caliph

bombing and killing innocent people in the name of islam - taliban,alqaeda,let,sipah e sahaba.,............

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Masha'Allah we can use more comments. Varun loves ahlul bayt. Nice try!

We can discuss what you mentioned in this page like Taraweeh prayers during Ramadan, Nikah Mutah, Calipha Rashideen, number 4 caliphs sure,

and the bombing and killing of innocent people. However this would be a bad deed (like a really bad deed) but it is not a biddah. Biddah is an attempt to change

the religion (new innovations in the religions that are blameworthy)

can you or anyone else name other things you see as biddah maybe we can discuss?

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(bismillah)

There is no real definition of bid`ah given by the Imams of Guidance (as). So scholars have concluded that a bid`ah is something new or invented that comes to contradict or conflict with the shari`ah.

Taraweeh Salaah is a good example. A Bid`ah among Shi`ah? There are some here to think we're full of bid`ah, but they prefer a more Salafi definition of Bid`ah.

في أمان الله

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(bismillah)

There is no real definition of bid`ah given by the Imams of Guidance (as). So scholars have concluded that a bid`ah is something new or invented that comes to contradict or conflict with the shari`ah.

Taraweeh Salaah is a good example. A Bid`ah among Shi`ah? There are some here to think we're full of bid`ah, but they prefer a more Salafi definition of Bid`ah.

Ýí ÃãÇä Çááå

Dear Darul Islam ..

Someone told me that Salat AL Taraweeh is not Bid'ah itself, the bid'ah is doing it Jama'ah ..

Do u hear something like that ?!

biddah - innovation

taraweeh namaz

banning nikah mutah'

the word rashidun caliph

skipping ali an wali Allah in aazan,namaz,shahada

the number 4 - rashidun caliph

bombing and killing innocent people in the name of islam - taliban,alqaeda,let,sipah e sahaba.,............

Who said that skipping Ali an wali Allah in athan is Bid'ah ?!

Edited by alisadeq

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(bismillah)

Dear Darul Islam ..

Someone told me that Salat AL Taraweeh is not Bid'ah itself, the bid'ah is doing it Jama'ah ..

Do u hear something like that ?!

Yes, this is more accurate. My apologies.

Who said that skipping Ali an wali Allah in athan is Bid'ah ?!

You are correct. Adding it to Salaah is against the fatawa of most Maraaji` and they say you must repeat that prayer. "Adding it" to the adhaan has it's language complications and niyyah. Some may arguing saying it at all is bid`ah. But no, the above poster is incorrect.

في امان الله

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(bismillah)

Yes, this is more accurate. My apologies.

You are correct. Adding it to Salaah is against the fatawa of most Maraaji` and they say you must repeat that prayer. "Adding it" to the adhaan has it's language complications and niyyah. Some may arguing saying it at all is bid`ah. But no, the above poster is incorrect.

Ýí ÇãÇä Çááå

Jazak Allah Khayran

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we are all Muslims until proven otherwise. So we shouldn't say this group or that group you know? for know let's keep it at that.

so the two things that was being discussed here was

Tarawih

and "ali wali Allah" in the athan

so why would someone argue Taraweeh is biddah? or as you guys said, why is praying it together biddah?

"ali wali Allah" is this a biddah? well this wasn't said at the time of the prophet (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) and Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) never had people use it during his caliphate. but people have good intentions about it and do it anyway. Is it a biddah? or is it because people love Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) and have good intentions is it ok?

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I know that if one is shia Muslim he wouldn't like Abu Bakr and Umar. But it was these Caliphs who spread Islam to even where shias come from. What do you think about that?

and a reply for my previous message (before the one talking about the first to caliphs) would be great

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(bismillah)

we are all Muslims until proven otherwise. So we shouldn't say this group or that group you know? for know let's keep it at that.

Yes, Muslims, but we differ between one another in practice and beliefs so to try and ignore our differences is a disservice to one another and a fantasy

so why would someone argue Taraweeh is biddah? or as you guys said, why is praying it together biddah?

Taraweeh in and of itself, as in praying extra nawafil prayers after Salaat al-`Isha during Shahr Ramadan, is not bid`ah. However, praying it in congregation is. The Prophet (sawa) did not do such or allow it and the Imams [as] of the Ahlulbayt have informed us thus. Recommended prayers cannot be prayed in congregation, aside from the prayer of rain.

"ali wali Allah" is this a biddah? well this wasn't said at the time of the prophet (may Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) and Ali (may Allah be pleased with him)...

Right, but none of our `ulema say it is part of the Adhan. People may say it in the adhan, but the intention is that of "qurba" or nearness to Allah [swt] in general for saying this phrase, not a niyya that it is part of the Adhan.

I know that if one is shia Muslim he wouldn't like Abu Bakr and Umar. But it was these Caliphs who spread Islam to even where shias come from. What do you think about that?

It's like saying someone in Iraq should be thankful to Saddam for providing them with water and letting them live. Hypothetically, It could be said that if Imam `Ali [as] had actually been given his right, and the succeeding Imams [as], then Islam would be an even greater success and have more followers today.

Ýí ÇãÇäå

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As salat khayrun minanawm = the prayer is better than slipping in athan = bid'a of omar

the divorce in 3 seconds = omar

the sunni prayer (qabd) bid'a = omar

According to some Ulama'a qabd itself in Salat is not Bid'ah .. It becomes Bid'ah when u do it as a part of the Salat .

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ÈöÓúãö Çááøóåö ÇáÑøóÍúãóٰäö ÇáÑøóÍöíãö

ÇáÓáÇã Úáíßã æÑÍãÉ Çááå æÈÑßÇÊå

From Sayyid Sistani’s Masail (emphasis added):

742. A few rules concerning Jumuah prayers:

  • It is permissible for a person, who is exempted from Jumuah prayers, and for whom presence in Jumuah prayers is not obligatory, to hasten for Zuhr prayers in the early part of its time.
  • It is Makrooh to talk while Imam delivers the sermon. And if the noise created by talking prevents others from listening to the sermon, then it is haraam, regardless of whether the attendance is the minimum required or more.
  • As an obligatory precaution, it is wajib to listen to both the sermons. However, listening to the sermons is not obligatory upon those, who do not understand their meanings.
  • The second Adhan on Friday is an innovation. And it is the same Adhan which is usually called the third Adhan.
  • It is not obligatory for a person wishing to join Jumuah Namaz to be present while Imam is delivering the sermon.
  • Conducting purchase and sale at the time when people are called to Jumuah prayers is haraam, if it hinders the prayers, and not if it does not hinder. And inspite of it being haraam, the transaction done would not be void. When it was obligatory for a person to be present in Jumuah prayers and he abandoned it, and offered Zuhr prayers, his prayers would be in order.

Afaik this is an extra adhan (& iqama I think) which Sunnis do during their Jumah gatherings in between the Khutba and the Salat.

æÚáíßã ÇáÓáÇã æÑÍãÉ Çááå æÈÑßÇÊå

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(bismillah)

Yes, Muslims, but we differ between one another in practice and beliefs so to try and ignore our differences is a disservice to one another and a fantasy

i agree with this

As salat khayrun minanawm = the prayer is better than slipping in athan = bid'a of omar

the divorce in 3 seconds = omar

the sunni prayer (qabd) bid'a = omar

As salatu Khayrun mina noum for fajir prayer is not a biddah invented by Umar. Maybe come to fajir prayer in the masjid and give me the proof from authentic sources and maybe i'll hear your argument. Divorce in 3 seconds? no Divorce 3 times is permanent and the husband and wife have to seperate. then if the wife so happens, by chance, to marry someone else, have relations, and divorces that person she would be allowed to marry her former husband again. during the time of the prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) saying "i divorce you" 3 times in a row would only count as one divorce. However during the time of Umar ibn Khattab men were abusing their wives and saying this so much that he told them if they said "i divorce you" 3 times in a row it would count as three divorces. He took the right action for the right circumstance because this is not the way men should be acting towards their wives. Sunni prayer qabd? is biddah? i don't even know what you are talking about to answer that.

بِسْمِ اللَّهِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ الرَّحِيمِ

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

From Sayyid Sistani's Masail (emphasis added):

Afaik this is an extra adhan (& iqama I think) which Sunnis do during their Jumah gatherings in between the Khutba and the Salat.

وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

no. They call athan, then after a few minutes they have another athan right before the khutbah, and then the iqaamah. This was done during the time of Uthman ibn Affan because the number of the Muslims grew and so that the people would know its time for khutbah or if they didn't hear the first athan they were hear the second athan. it was just because of size of the people. this is not a blameworthy biddah. And Allah knows best

Edited by AdeL23

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(bismillah(

As salatu Khayrun mina noum for fajir prayer is not a biddah invented by Umar. Maybe come to fajir prayer in the masjid and give me the proof from authentic sources and maybe i'll hear your argument.

Well, we believe it is an innovation and our Imams [as] shown us thusly. The narrative for this practice from among Sunni sources, as I remember reading is, is that `Umar's slave said it to him in the morning or something and he decided to add it. Something like this, you should look into yourself.

Divorce in 3 seconds? no Divorce 3 times is permanent and the husband and wife have to seperate. then if the wife so happens, by chance, to marry someone else, have relations, and divorces that person she would be allowed to marry her former husband again. during the time of the prophet (may Allah's peace and blessings be upon him) saying "i divorce you" 3 times in a row would only count as one divorce. However during the time of Umar ibn Khattab men were abusing their wives and saying this so much that he told them if they said "i divorce you" 3 times in a row it would count as three divorces. He took the right action for the right circumstance because this is not the way men should be acting towards their wives. Sunni prayer qabd? is biddah? i don't even know what you are talking about to answer that.

So you're saying he applied his own Ijtihad that went counter to the Sunnah for something like this? That is not justified. He could have simply removed the men from the women being abused by force than trying to institute that 3 divorces = automatic end. And if this "ijtihad" is not longer necessary as the reasons for it are no longer present, why are all the Sunni madhhabs in agreement of the triple divorce in one instant is legal and valid?

Qabd is the folding of arms in prayer that Sunnis do in qiyaam. According to our narrations, this is bid`ah, and a practice taken from the majoos (Zoroastrians). Interestingly enough, if you look at Zoroastrian art and see how prayer is depicted, they do fold their arms like Sunnis do; so I've heard.

no. They call athan, then after a few minutes they have another athan right before the khutbah, and then the iqaamah. This was done during the time of Uthman ibn Affan because the number of the Muslims grew and so that the people would know its time for khutbah or if they didn't hear the first athan they were hear the second athan. it was just because of size of the people. this is not a blameworthy biddah. And Allah knows best

Right, so the second Adhan given during Jumu`ah is a bid`ah and to do it believing it is part of the Sunnah is a bid`ah. The reason for why this practice was done by `Uthman is no longer an issue, so why is it still practiced?

في أمانه

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