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shah1

Was Alcohol Halal In Islam Before Being Made Haram

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Was alcohol allowed (halal) in Islam before being forbidden afterwards in madina?

According to Quran Allah swt laws and Sunna never change!

Could it be alcohol always prohibited but the ignorant people made it acceptable?

I think as the companions use to drink, scholars interpertated the verses for alcohol being accepted first and then being made haram in stages. 

Would like to see other views or evidences...

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•Acceptable or Hallal according to Sunni belief...

Quran 2.219 

Wine and gambling -- some good but great sins...

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• Still acceptable but condition you can't go mosque....

Quran 4:43

Can't go to a mosque intoxicated or after having touched a woman…

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• This verse our brothers use that it was outlawed....

Quran 5:90

Intoxicants (wine and spirit) and gambling are Satan's handiwork, avoid them...

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This is the Sunnah (law) of Allah which existed before you, and you will never find any change in Allah's system, (Surah al-Fath, 48:23) 

Allah says: That was the law of Allah in the case of those who lived before and there will never be any change in the law of Allah. (Surah al-Ahzab, 33:63)

The same thing has been said in the Holy Qur'an in these words: {Such was Our) system in the case of those whom We sent before you {to mankind), and you will never find change in Our system. (Surah Bani Israil, 17:77)

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quran had to be revealed in stages so that it wd be easier for people to understand it with examples(circumstances) around them.

it was haram earlier also. that is why in the story of harat musa(as), when he was called by the god for forty days, his people made wine which was considered sin and was told by him(As) to the people.

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Was Alcohol Halal In Islam Before Being Made Haram

NO

islam is not a new religion,it just follows the shariyat came before islaam,so every evil thing were haraam in islaam from the first day.

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(bismillah)

You guys are making too many assumptions here. From what I have been told and ask about from my Shaykh is that it was slowly made haraam - yes just as Sunnis say. It is well known that Shari`ah changes, especially between revelations. So that cannot be part of the unchangeable Sunnah of Allah [swt] - at least in the way you're understand it. Commands change, laws change. Abrogation happened.

The companions coming into Islam first had to believe in it, love and respect Allah and his Prophet, then would they actually follow commands. They were not made instant believers.

في أمان الله

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(bismillah)

You guys are making too many assumptions here. From what I have been told and ask about from my Shaykh is that it was slowly made haraam - yes just as Sunnis say. It is well known that Shari`ah changes, especially between revelations. So that cannot be part of the unchangeable Sunnah of Allah [swt] - at least in the way you're understand it. Commands change, laws change. Abrogation happened.

The companions coming into Islam first had to believe in it, love and respect Allah and his Prophet, then would they actually follow commands. They were not made instant believers.

Ýí ÃãÇä Çááå

So the verses that state Allah swt Sunna and laws don't change, should be disregarded.

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that is why in the story of harat musa(as), when he was called by the god for forty days, his people made wine which was considered sin and was told by him(As) to the people.

Can't find the verse you referring to "where it was considered a sin".

Would help if you could give the reference.

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Was Alcohol Halal In Islam Before Being Made Haram

NO

islam is not a new religion,it just follows the shariyat came before islaam,so every evil thing were haraam in islaam from the first day.

Makes sence.

In theory what ppl are saying by, it was made halal in stages is that Allah swt didn't know alcohol was bad!

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(bismillah)

So the verses that state Allah swt Sunna and laws don't change, should be disregarded.

No, I am saying you are misunderstanding what the "Sunnah of Allah [swt]" is. Laws have changed. Have you not seen the verse where it was made compulsory for Companions to give Sadaqah each time they wanted a private talk with Rasulullah [pbuh] and the only one to act upon this was Imam Ali [as]? Immediately after this aya, I believe, is the ayah that abrogate this rule and not longer requires they gives charity.

Even in our own ahadeeth there are things narrated like the shari`ah of Musa [as] allowed unlimited number of wives, and with `Isa [as] it was only one, and in Islam there is the balance of 4 or less.

في أمان الله

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(bismillah)

No, I am saying you are misunderstanding what the "Sunnah of Allah [swt]" is. Laws have changed.

Ýí ÃãÇä Çááå

The 33rd ayat of Surah al-Ar’āf is as follows:

“Say, my Lord has only prohibited indecencies, those of them that are apparent as well as those that are concealed, and sin and rebellion without justice and that you associate with Allah that for which He has not sent down any authority, and that you say against Allah what do you not know.”

‘Fawahish’ (indecencies) is the plural of ‘fahsha’ (indecency). In Arabic it implies an extremely evil act. The other sins that are described by this word in Qur’an are adultery, sodomy and falsely associating someone with adultery and sodomy. ‘Ithm’ implies ‘sin’, and the Holy Qur’an clearly indicates that drinking and gambling are ‘Ithm’.

There is a tradition narrated by ‘Ali ibn Yaqtīn in the book al-Kāfi, wherein the Abbasid despot Mahdi asked Imam Musa al-Kadhim (a.s.) regarding wine, “Is wine Harām according to the Qur’an?” (Because) people know that it is prohibited but not aware that it is Harām.” Imam Musa al-Kadhim (a.s.) replied:

“Wine is Harām according to the Divine book.”

“At what place in the Qur’an is wine shown to be Harām?”

Imam Musa al-Kadhim (a.s.) said,

“In the following statement of Allah (S.w.T.),

‘Say, my Lord has only prohibited indecencies, those of them that are apparent as well as those that are concealed.’”

(Surah al-Ar’āf 7:33)

Imam (a.s.) further said,

“As far as the apparent indecencies are concerned, they imply open adultery and ensigns that were hung outside the houses of prostitutes in the days of ignorance. ‘The concealed sin’ implies the sin of marrying the step mother after the death of the father as the people of the days of ignorance used to do. Allah has also ordered this act to be Harām. As far as sin is concerned, it is but “wine drinking”. At another point, Allah says,

“They ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: in both of them there is a great sin and means of profit for men, and their sin is greater than their profits.”

(Surah al-Baqarah 2:219)

In the above tradition Imam (a.s.) first quotes the ayat where ‘sin’ is labelled as Harām. Then he mentions that verse where wine is ordained to be a ‘sin’. Hence when it is shown that ‘sin’ is Harām and wine is sin, then wine (and all alcoholic drinks) must necessarily be Harām.

Imam ‘Ali ar-Riďa (a.s.) has informed,

“Allah knows better that every Prophet who has been sent by Him did not have his religion completed till wine was prohibited. Wine has always been Harām.”

(Furu al-Kāfi)

http://www.al-islam.org/greater_sins_complete/18.htm

(bismillah)

Have you not seen the verse where it was made compulsory for Companions to give Sadaqah each time they wanted a private talk with Rasulullah [pbuh] and the only one to act upon this was Imam Ali [as]? Immediately after this aya, I believe, is the ayah that abrogate this rule and not longer requires they gives charity.

Ýí ÃãÇä Çááå

Sorry, not seen the verse can you give me a reference for it.

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i dont remember the reference , it may be in the tafsir of that topic in the quran.

Can't find it in no tafsir.

However it's clear that QURAN says in order of revaltion:

¥ It's a great SIN

¥ Don't go mosque while drunk

¥ it's Satans handiwork avoid it

I can't get my head around the when people state the fact Allah swt the most knowledgable didn't Know it was a sin before their claim HE PROHIBITED IT!

And if he did know it was a sin then why did Allah swt let people commit sin when HE WAS TELLING PROPHET PBUH TO TELL THE PEOPLE TO ABSTAIN FROM SIN AND EVIL!

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yes it could be the case but im not sure

for all those who say islam is right from the first day from nabi adam (pbuh) so everything now haram was haram earlier also

consider MUSIC

wasnt it halal in the time of nabi musa (pbuh) and became haram after the final message and final messenger (pbuh)

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Alcohol was always haram from day one, as the brothers have stated during Prophet saww time it was gradually forbidden.

The important point to be noted here is that the alcohol even though allowed at early stages but was never encouraged by the Prophet saww at any stage. Some people use the same analogy with muta as it was allowed at early stage but it was forbidden later but the main thing is that muta was encouraged by the Prophet saww but alcohol wasn't.

Just now saw couple of posts from the other bros, here I will like to state that even music was haram from day 1 because these sins like alcohol, music, gambling, pork etc have the same diseases/effects from the time of Adam till now. All the sins that I've mentioned have a problem with their root.

Edited by Limelight

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yes it could be the case but im not sure

for all those who say islam is right from the first day from nabi adam (pbuh) so everything now haram was haram earlier also

consider MUSIC

wasnt it halal in the time of nabi musa (pbuh) and became haram after the final message and final messenger (pbuh)

music was halal?

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i guess it was halal in the time of nabi musa (pbuh)

no! it cannot be halal. instead it wd have been something not much stressed.

and the reason behind it is that people back then were not ready to accept quran. just think that if quran wd have been revealed at the time of hazarat musa(as)(i mean just the forbidden and allowed things)?

usury was prohibited then. did they follow?

but the question asked now will be- is it stated anywhere that usury was abolished or forbidden?

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Allahs law doesn't change!

Quran 17:77

Quran 33:63

Quran 48:23

The religion has been Islam from day dot! 

The laws have been the same, it's humans who have bent laws to make them allowable. 

You contradict and make mockery of other verses if you say something that Allah swt himself describes a GREAT SIN in verse 2:219 allows it to take place!

Didn't Allah swt know it was a great sin from day dot?

Ibn kathir in his tafsir says the the alcohol verses were revealed in order that I stated in the OP!

How can Allah swt say great sin first, then start prohibiting it?

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=195

If it was allowed why didn't our prophet pbuh&hf drink?

Music allowed...LOL

WHAT NEXT!

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There are 'Sahih Sunni Hadith' where it say that Prophet (pbuh) drinked Nabiz! (a type of wine)

Reference would help!

Even if the sahih Sunni hadiths indicate such an evil act comited by the Prophet pbuh&hf, It just shows you the level of respect our Sunni brothers give to the prophet pbuh& hf!

Disregarding the verse where it states he was the best of character.

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(bismillah)(salam)

[5:3] “This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”

I believe that ayat was sent down after the Prophet's (saw) last hajj at ghadeer e khum when imam Ali (as) was formally named his successor.

Before that many things changed including the qibla and even the number of rak'ah for each prayer.

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(bismillah)(salam)

Before that many things changed including the qibla and even the number of rak'ah for each prayer.

Things might of changed, but things what were considered as being sinful were always sinful. Things that were described by the Quran as a GREAT SIN were always great sins.

Allah swt wouldn't make something allowable the same time he is stating it a sin. It defeats any logical thinking!

Laws were always the same from day dot. People changed the laws for their benifit.

I'm sure praying direction was the same from Adams a.s time and ibrahim a.s prayed that direction aswell.

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(bismillah)

You guys are making too many assumptions here. From what I have been told and ask about from my Shaykh is that it was slowly made haraam - yes just as Sunnis say. It is well known that Shari`ah changes, especially between revelations. So that cannot be part of the unchangeable Sunnah of Allah [swt] - at least in the way you're understand it. Commands change, laws change. Abrogation happened.

The companions coming into Islam first had to believe in it, love and respect Allah and his Prophet, then would they actually follow commands. They were not made instant believers.

في أمان الله

Many Shia commentator and sunnis as a whole said many irrational things about banning of khamr.

Sunni says out of vested interest ( i.e their elders use have it even after banning) shia convinced that idea and borrows that concept .

But:

The First verse about khamr made it absolutely Haram

i.e that here

They ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: in both of them there is a great sin and means of profit for men, and their sin is greater than their profits.”

Here Allah s.w.t said about khamr .." Great Sin" .. ismum kabir. Before hand in Makki sura Allah s.w.t already made it clear that every Great sin is Haram.

Also later Allah said "..its handi work of saitan....even then you will not listen?"

So its clear that the matter ( about forbiding of Alcohol) already decided but people were not listening.

We know from the history and from saying of Imams that at the time of Nuh a.s, Iblis with the help of some people invented alcohol.

So From then its haraaammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Edited by ___NAZM___

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Reference would help!

Even if the sahih Sunni hadiths indicate such an evil act comited by the Prophet pbuh&hf, It just shows you the level of respect our Sunni brothers give to the prophet pbuh& hf!

Disregarding the verse where it states he was the best of character.

الكتب » صحيح البخاري » كِتَاب الْأَشْرِبَةِ » باب نَقِيعِ التَّمْرِ مَا لَمْ يُسْكِرْ

رقم الحديث: 5196

(حديث مرفوع) حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ بُكَيْرٍ ، حَدَّثَنَا يَعْقُوبُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ الْقَارِيُّ ، عَنْ أَبِي حَازِمٍ ، قَالَ : سَمِعْتُ سَهْلَ بْنَ سَعْدٍ السَّاعِدِيَّ ، أَنَّ أَبَا أُسَيْدٍ السَّاعِدِيَّ ، دَعَا النَّبِيَّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لِعُرْسِهِ ، فَكَانَتِ امْرَأَتُهُ خَادِمَهُمْ يَوْمَئِذٍ وَهِيَ الْعَرُوسُ ، فَقَالَتْ : مَا تَدْرُونَ مَا أَنْقَعْتُ لِرَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أَنْقَعْتُ ، لَهُ تَمَرَاتٍ مِنَ اللَّيْلِ فِي تَوْرٍ .

الكتب » صحيح مسلم » كِتَاب الْأَشْرِبَةِ » بَاب إِبَاحَةِ النَّبِيذِ الَّذِي لَمْ يَشْتَدَّ وَلَمْ

رقم الحديث: 3755

(حديث مرفوع) وحَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ ، وَزُهَيْرُ بْنُ حَرْبٍ ، قَالَا : حَدَّثَنَا عَفَّانُ ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ ، عَنْ ثَابِتٍ ، عَنْ أَنَسٍ ، قَالَ : " لَقَدْ سَقَيْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ بِقَدَحِي هَذَا الشَّرَابَ كُلَّهُ الْعَسَلَ وَالنَّبِيذَ وَالْمَاءَ وَاللَّبَنَ

There are more Sahih Hadith about that...

What is Nabiz?

http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%86%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%B0

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Not in english, also wiki, not really strong, but there's no smoke without fire!

Nabiz I think is from dates not sure maybe someone would know better.

Yes exactly!

Do you want 'English version of Hadith' if yes then let me know....

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We know from the history and from saying of Imams that at the time of Nuh a.s, Iblis with the help of some people invented alcohol.

So From then its haraaammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I agree with all you have said, makes total sence!

As for the above claim is there any reference point to it?

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Sahih Bukhari, Book of drinks, chapter on the preparation of beverages in containers and what is called "Taur". Hadith Number: 5196

It is reported that Sahl bin Sa'd, may Allah be pleased with him, said:

"Abu Usa'id as-Sa'idi came to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and greeted him, and invited him to his wedding, and as for his wife who was the bride at that time so she ministered for them. Do you know what she gave to drink to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and welcome? She all the night soaked up for him dates in the water (which has been poured) into Taur."

Edited by Rasul

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Sahih Bukhari, Book of drinks, chapter on the preparation of beverages in containers and what is called "Taur". Hadith Number: 5196

.......Do you know what she gave to drink to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and welcome? She all the night soaked up for him dates in the water (which has been poured) into Taur."

Soaking dates all night doesn't make it fermented/alcoholic. There's a process which takes more then a night to make an intoxicant drink.

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Soaking dates all night doesn't make it fermented/alcoholic. There's a process which takes more then a night to make an intoxicant drink.

Can you please educate us what will it produce? I mean soaking overnight?

What should we call that " produced over night"?

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Can you please educate us what will it produce? I mean soaking overnight?

What should we call that " produced over night"?

It will make a beverage the very least. But with just the evidence presented you can not conclude an alcoholic drink was made.

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