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In the Name of God بسم الله

Shaykhs Saduq And Mufeed On Taqiyyah

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(bismillah)

In The Name of Allah (SWT) , The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful.

(salam)

Thank you for the post, Brother Haydar Husayn! :D

So, in the first hadith, the part you highlighted seemed to refer to not insulting the people that Sunnis revere. What is your stance on this issue? Are you for being provocative to them or are you in favour of not being so explicit about it, in order to have some sort of unity (or coexistence if you will) with the Sunnis and in order to avoid unnecessary conflict?

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(bismillah)

In The Name of Allah (SWT) , The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful.

(salam) wa RAHMATULLAHI WA BARAKATOH.

I'm not in favour of using derogatory language about certain individuals in from of those who revere them, but I think having an academic discussion about their crimes is fine (although to a certain extend you always need to judge your audience). However, in my opinion it is important to stick to issues where sufficient proof can be brought, and also to stick to fundamental issues. Things like whether or not Umar had a homosexual relationship, or Aisha committed zina (or some other kind of indecency), are in neither category. We should just stick to their major crimes, and those that can be reasonably proven to be true. Even if we couldn't prove something from Sunni sources, we can say what we believe based on our sources, but does anyone curse Umar because they think he had a homosexual relationship? Of course not, so what's the point in bringing this up?

I totally agree. I do think that saying that Umar was such and such or Aisha XYZ is a bit too far fetched and much more based on hatred rather than subjectivity. Plus, like you said , these are not the main reasons we don't like these people so why concentrate on them. I also agree that where they were wrong, we must point it out but, like you said, we should not use foul or unreasonable language. Rather, we must discuss the issues in an intellectual manner as hatred and bad behaviour may just make them too angry too even listen, even if what is being said is the truth.

This is, maybe, in all your views, the thing I like most; probably because I did not expect you to have this view.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Its important for new converts as well as born shia to understand this religion is multi-layered, and there is so much to learn and understand it certainly cannot be done in one year. I do not think you can even learn arabic in one year, and you could spend your entire life in the process of learning Islam and our knowledge would only be a drop in the ocean that the Words of Allah are. Islam is a system of self purification and gaining some small measure of the understanding of our Creator, and as such people will in fact hate us, their hatred of us is because of their hatred of Allah عز وجل, the Prophet (saw) and the Aimmah (as). In order that Islam goes forward safely to the next generation, we must be careful in our akhlaq and practice our religion in the manner taught us.

We love the Masumeen (saw) so much that we feel an immense measure of hatred to those who hurt Them (saw), but if we do not love Them (saw) enough to fulfill the rest of the commandments, then it is not true love. Love means something much greater than any seem to realize. It is also action based. We have all read the description of the faithful of the Aimmah (as) in other ahadith, so I ask, are we working towards being one of those faithful? Or are we a gnat destined for hell?

Ma'a Salaama

Edited by thenamelessone
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I'm not in favour of using derogatory language about certain individuals in from of those who revere them, but I think having an academic discussion about their crimes is fine (although to a certain extend you always need to judge your audience). However, in my opinion it is important to stick to issues where sufficient proof can be brought, and also to stick to fundamental issues. Things like whether or not Umar had a homosexual relationship, or Aisha committed zina (or some other kind of indecency), are in neither category. We should just stick to their major crimes, and those that can be reasonably proven to be true. Even if we couldn't prove something from Sunni sources, we can say what we believe based on our sources, but does anyone curse Umar because they think he had a homosexual relationship? Of course not, so what's the point in bringing this up?

Agreed but can i ask you, what's your view of using titles like Amul-mumineen or sayeda for people like Aisha or Hafsa? Doesn't doing such an act contradict the very concept of bara'a that we believe in? jzk

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Agreed but can i ask you, what's your view of using titles like Amul-mumineen or sayeda for people like Aisha or Hafsa? Doesn't doing such an act contradict the very concept of bara'a that we believe in? jzk

It's not obligatory on Sunnis to even say (ra) after the names of Sahaba and wives of the Prophet (pbuh), so why should we do that? Let alone use the title that is only reserved for Imam Ali (as), or other terms of respect. Only the extremely moronic among the Sunnis would get offended because you don't use such terms of respect, and you probably shouldn't waste any time talking to those kinds of people.

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It's not obligatory on Sunnis to even say (ra) after the names of Sahaba and wives of the Prophet (pbuh), so why should we do that? Let alone use the title that is only reserved for Imam Ali (as), or other terms of respect. Only the extremely moronic among the Sunnis would get offended because you don't use such terms of respect, and you probably shouldn't waste any time talking to those kinds of people.

my question wasn't about sunnis using those terms but among ourselves. I've seen people who adhere to our shia faith who use them. I always find it difficult to understand since those people are regarded in very high esteem by majority of shias.

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Narrated 'Aisha:

Magic was worked on Allah's Apostle so that he used to think that he had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not (Sufyan said: That is the hardest kind of magic as it has such an effect)... (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 660)

We know best of what they listen to, when they listen to you. And when they take secret counsel, then the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers) say: "You follow none but a bewitched man."

( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #47)

This so called Sahih Hadith undeniably contradicts the Holy Qur'an and puts doubt into the heart of the believers because if the Holy Prophet (as) can be bewitched once (God forbid), who is to say he wasn't bewitched another time, indeed, the disbelievers can claim that his entire mission was one huge delusion and they can use this Sahih Hadith from Umul Momineen as their ammunition to fire against the Prophethood of Muhammad (as). The fact that this hadith is contained in the most authentic work of the Khalifa sect is a disgrace. If this Hadith is "authentic" it shows that Aisha disbelieved in the Prophethood of the Prophet (as) and engaged in a campaign of propaganda and hatred against him. As Shia Muslims we should in my humble opinion strive to show the world the true and pure Islam and in the process we must not sugar coat the fact that certain people close the Prophet (as) such as Aisha dedicated themselves to a campaign of misinformation and hateful propaganda in order to tarnish his image. And to those who think I am going overboard in my accusations, just try to imagine if someone else besides Aisha (may God remove his mercy from her) had said this, imagine if a non believer had said that the Prophet was bewitched (note Salman Rushdie). Why are we so quick to condemn other for denigrating the Prophet (as) when his own so called most "beloved" wife is hurling abuses against him???? May Allah (SWT) guide us to the light of the Prophet and Imams and let us not fall into petty name calling but let us expose the hateful and malicious propagators of hate, one of them being Aisha. If we stick to using the authentic sources of the Khalifa school of thought then we should not hold back and start asking the hard questions.

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my question wasn't about sunnis using those terms but among ourselves. I've seen people who adhere to our shia faith who use them. I always find it difficult to understand since those people are regarded in very high esteem by majority of shias.

What I was trying to say was if Sunnis don't have to use them, then there is absolutely no reason for Shias to. However, some Shias probably feel it buys them some credibility with Sunnis to do so. I think it's a mistake personally.

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Now until the Imam al-Qa'im appears, taqiya is obligatory and it is not permissible to dispense with it. He, who abandons it before the appearance of the Qa'im, has verily gone out of the religion of Allah, Exalted is He, and the religion of the Imams, and disobeys Allah and His Messenger and the Imams.

Now? So Taqiyah was not obligatory before 'now'? And 'now' is basically the time when Saduq lived or the moment after occultation of 12 Imam or ..... ?

And he also said: Verily diplomacy (arri'a') with a true believer is a form of shirk (polytheism); but with a hypocrite (munafiq) in his own house, it is worship.

Let me guess, the 'tafsir'/'explanation' will casually tone this down significantly where the meaning totally changes.

Anyone know which Hadith this is in? Chain of Narrators? Rating?

Edited by Ugly Jinn
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Why are you tying taqiyyah so tightly to sending lana'at/tabarra on the criminals of ahle sunnah sect in this day and age?

We believe taqiyyah to be employed in times of fear & danger so in that context and with hindsight of the awful persecution Shi'ah faced at the time the narration is correct and proper but that's not the case right now.

Maybe some people forget tabarra is a Furoo' and their are numerous narrations exhorting Shi'ah to curse the enemy but there's a time and a place element. We don't have to say anything derogatory about xyz when sunnis are present but in our own gatherings what is the problem with it?

Please don't drag up the tired cliche of the enemy using it to justify killing of Shi'ah. That began from the time of the early Imams (as) and will continue until the Day Of Reckoning because Truth is difficult to bear for those with their own warped variant of it.

ALI

Edited by Kismet110
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(bismillah)

(salam)

http://www.strategyp...s/20120215.aspx

http://www.literarys...shias-in-yemen-

http://www.rte.ie/ne.../0105/iraq.html

http://www.newsday.c...istan-1.3371335

^^^^ In this day and age^^^^

While tabarra is furu, it also is multi-layered. Dont misunderstand, I'm not a muqassir, but there is a time and a place for everything. Right now Shia are being attacked around the world. I am not saying we are not going to be hated for the words in our books, but there is a reason for the weakening of the ahadith, if you notice this gives great benefit in debating sunni on the content thereof. Our books are telling us, through all these taqiyyah ahadith, that we need to keep true to the teachings of the Ahl al Bayt (as) and practice taqiyyah on matters that will only serve to add fuel to fire that is already burning. In a world where I can speak online to a person living in Yemen right now, we cannot give further excuse for sunni to kill shia, what they 'might' do regardless does not matter to us. While there is in my opinion more than one topic of taqiyyah, this seems to be the one people make videos of on youtube so that the sunni in saudia can watch it and have further reason for their violence. It is ignorance to think you are not making things worse, giving more excuses for the killing of our brothers.

In the end, I would rather die because a man holds hatred in his heart for my Imam (as) than for his ignorant love of the wife of the Prophet (saw) ignorance can be forgiven hatred of my Imam (as) will not be.

Edited by thenamelessone
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^^^

Right, but still not making sense. If you or I do taqiyyah it's to preserve our life. Shi'ah are being killed for being on Haqq, that's been the case since day one and it won't change regardless.

Are the Saudi soldiers in Bahrain killing Shi'ah because of a YT video or on request of the leaders to preserve their status?

Did the Taliban kill Hazara because of tabarra on Umar they heard in a chatroom or to ensure no-one rises against them?

Are the Shi'ah in oil-rich region of Saudi oppressed because of azadari or to make sure they don't agitate for their share of the wealth?

Are the Shi'ah being bombed in Iraq suffering because of the comments on a forum or because the minority feel they have no power anymore?

I'm not saying we should swear or curse their people constantly but in our own gatherings our love for Ahlulbayt (as) does manifest as hatred for their enemies.

ALI

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(bismillah)

(salam)

THE BELIEF CONCERNING DISSIMULATION (taqiya)

Says the Shaykh, may the mercy of Allah be on him: Our belief concerning taqiya (permissible dissimulation) is that it is obligatory, and he who forsakes it is in the same position as he who forsakes prayer. Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq was told: O son of the Messenger of Allah, verily we see in the mosque one who openly abuses your enemies, calling out their names. And he said: May Allah curse him! Why does he refer to us? He, Who is Exalted above all, says: "Revile not those who invoke (deities) other than Allah, lest wrongfully they revile Allah through ignorance" [6:108]. And Imam Ja'far in explaining this verse has said: So do not revile them, lest they revile your `Ali. And he also said: He who reviles the friend (wali) of Allah (i.e. 'Ali) has reviled Allah. And the Prophet said: He who reviles thee, O `Ali, has verily reviled me; and he, who reviles me, has verily reviled Allah.

(wasalam)

I know you love your rijaal and sciences, so how about you bring the Arabic source for these hadith?

And Imam Ja'far said: Verily, I hear a man abusing me in the mosque; and I hide myself behind a pillar so that he may not see me.

Unbelievable. So according to Haydar Husayn, our leaders hide behind pillars, advise us to keep women uneducated (don't teach them to read and write)*1, and allow us to use infants for masturbation*2.

Please teach us more of this wisdom, our cups are empty without you.

References for my above comments:

*1

(Kafi by Shaikh Kulaini (ra), Volume 5, Page 516, Hadith 2)

كتاب من لا يحضره الفقيه — الجزء الثالث

للشيخ الجليل الاقدم الصدوق أبى جعفر محمد بن على بن الحسين بن بابويه القمى

المتوفى سنة 381

Man la yahdhuruhul Faqih by Shaikh Sadooq (381 AH), Third Volume

4534 - وروى عبدالله بن سنان عن أبي عبدالله عليه السلام قال: (ألهموهن حب علي عليه السلام وذروهن بلهاء

4534 - And narrated Abdullah b. Sinan from Abi Abdullah(as) who said: "Inspire the women with love of Ali(as) (and) leave them idiotic."

4535 - وروى إسماعيل بن أبي زياد عن جعفر بن محمد عن أبيه عليهما السلام عن آبائه عليهم السلام قال: (قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه واله: لا تنزلوا نساء‌كم الغرف ولا تعلموهن الكتابة، ولا تعلموهن سورة يوسف، وعلموهن المغزل وسورة النور

4535 - And it's narrated from Isma'il b. Abi Ziyad from Ja'far b. Muhammad (as) from his (as) father (as) from his forefathers (as) who said: Rasool Allah (pbuh) said: "Do not let your women come down the rooms and do not teach them to write, and do not teach them surah al Yusuf, while teach them the spindle/spinning wheel and surah al Noor."

http://realtashayyu....good-thing.html

*2

Khomeini's fatwa #12 under Kitab an Nikah in his book "Tahrirolvasyleh"

مسألة 12 :

لا يجوز وطء الزوجة قبل إكمال تسع سنين ، دواما كان النكاح أو منقطعا ، و أما سائر الاستمتاعات كاللمس بشهوة و الضم و التفخيذ فلا بأس بها حتى فى الرضيعة ، و لو وطأها قبل التسع و لم يفضها لم يترتب عليه شى‏ء غير الاثم على الاقوى ، و إن أفضاها بأن جعل مسلكى البول و الحيض واحدا أو مسلكى الحيض و الغائط واحدا حرم عليه وطؤها أبدا لكن على الاحوط فى الصورة الثانية ، و على أي حال لم تخرج عن زوجيته على الاقوى ، فيجري عليها أحكامها من التوارث و حرمة الخامسة و حرمة أختها معها و غيرها ، و يجب عليه نفقتها مادامت حية و إن طلقها بل و إن تزوجت بعد الطلاق على الاحوط ، بل لا يخلو من قوة ، و يجب عليه دية الافضاء ، و هى دية النفس ، فإذا كانت حرة فلها نصف دية الرجل مضافا إلى المهر الذي استحقته بالعقد و الدخول ، و لو دخل بزوجته بعد إكمال التسع فأفضاها لم تحرم عليه و لم تثبت الدية ، و لكن الاحوط الانفاق عليها مادامت حية و إن كان الاقوى عدم الوجوب

"A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual acts such as foreplay, rubbing or "thighing", and kissing is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not committed a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."

http://www.shiachat....ost__p__1877843

http://al-shia.org/h...tahrir25.htm#a5

Haydar Hussain mashallah brother, please continue your wonderful Taqiyyah, don't let anyone know about Latam or Tabarra, but let's publish articles about treating women like sexual toys, even if they're infants. Mashallah.

Lanatullah 'ala Kuffar wa Nawaseb

Edited by Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki
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Can the galactically stupid please stay away from my threads?

Didn't you berate me for being harsh in my words to a sunni even though my assessment was correct - he was a troll?

I see this more and more, so-called Shi'ah of Maula Ali (as) soft and kind to enemies of Ahlulbayt (as) but harsh and unforgiving with fellow Shi'ah.

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Didn't you berate me for being harsh in my words to a sunni even though my assessment was correct - he was a troll?

I see this more and more, so-called Shi'ah of Maula Ali (as) soft and kind to enemies of Ahlulbayt (as) but harsh and unforgiving with fellow Shi'ah.

I told you to give him more time. Once it became clear he was a troll, then I said it would be understandable to be harsh with him. Just because you turned out to be correct, it doesn't mean that your initial approach was right. As for Dawud al-Miqdad al-Amriki, after recent interactions with him, it has become clear he has no sense whatsoever. I have time for the uninformed, of whatever religion, but very little for fools. Unfortunately he is both uninformed and foolish.

By the way, he has sent lanah on me, has implied I am a kafir, and judging by his above post also a nasibi. So how nice exactly do you expect me to be with him?

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^^^

Right, but still not making sense. If you or I do taqiyyah it's to preserve our life. Shi'ah are being killed for being on Haqq, that's been the case since day one and it won't change regardless.

Are the Saudi soldiers in Bahrain killing Shi'ah because of a YT video or on request of the leaders to preserve their status?

Did the Taliban kill Hazara because of tabarra on Umar they heard in a chatroom or to ensure no-one rises against them?

Are the Shi'ah in oil-rich region of Saudi oppressed because of azadari or to make sure they don't agitate for their share of the wealth?

Are the Shi'ah being bombed in Iraq suffering because of the comments on a forum or because the minority feel they have no power anymore?

I'm not saying we should swear or curse their people constantly but in our own gatherings our love for Ahlulbayt (as) does manifest as hatred for their enemies.

ALI

(bismillah)

(salam)

This is the address to the reliigous aspect from our books

Referring to the story mentioned in Quran about Samiri: "Then he (i.e., Samiri) brought out before the (people) a calf whose body gave forth a lowing sound: so they said: This is your god (20:88)" Is'haq Ibn Ammar narrated:

I asked Imam Musa Ibn Ja'far (as) to tell me about those two (i.e we can infer). He (as) said: "the first was in the place of calf and the second was in the place of Samiri."

- Thawab al-A'mal, p215

- Jami'ul Akhbar, p143

- Bihar al-Anwar, v30, p407, Hadith #4

By insulting certain men and women we have thus insulted the sunnis gods, and we are told not to insult the gods of others in accordance with Islamic akhlaq in the Qur'an, lest our GOD be insulted. This does not mean we are not doing tabarra privately nor does it mean we are not teaching our children to hate oppressors and those who did not love and respect the Imam (as). It means that we do not insult their gods to their faces.

Can we teach them using proofs in their books with perfect akhlaq the truth of what happened? Of course! But no matter the ahadith this is all we can do, we do not argue we do not fight and we always keep perfect akhlaq with them. If you want to do certain things privately it is between you and the Imam (atf) however, when you breech Islam publicly (breaching taqiyyah and akhlaq) you have done a grievous wrong.

This is the address to the political aspect.

anger augments a sense of personal control, lowers perceptions of risk, and makes people less willing to admit a mistake. As a result, angry employees are more likely to commit further resources to a failing project or choice.”

By contrast, fear makes people second-guess themselves and often abandon support for efforts that have gone even slightly off the tracks. A second, similar study measured employees’ financial decision making. The results were the same; angry individuals were more likely to allocate funds to a failing division than those who were afraid.”

http://www.strategy-...9413d?gko=25b9b

This article discusses the psychological effects of anger in decision making in the workforce, however, the psychological effects of anger is just that, an effect, and at times it can be a good effect depending upon ones end goal. The various government powers have need of the support of ordinary people in order to wage war, a populous that is in agreement with the government will support that governments actions. There is a need of someone to pull the trigger, and you can bet it won’t be the House of Saud; therefore, there is a strong need of people who will do this, and controlling people through fear doesn’t work to the extent of controlling people through anger. While the government may have one particular agenda, there is need for the populous to have a reason to support said government.

Due to greed in many cases, those that control the Sunni led governments of the world have aligned themselves, to great extent, with our enemies. Our enemies have a goal to which we, the Shia, appear to stand in the way, as we stand against those things they enjoy. We are the ideological voice against greed and materialism, against oppression and injustice in order to obtain material wealth. So long as there is a moral voice against these goals, this voice is likely to influence others.

Therefore, what do they need to do? Eliminate this voice to the greatest extent possible. We have begun a war of ideology, a war for the hearts and minds of men, but now, on a global scale. How do they obtain support of the common man? Anger.

What do the wahabbis push constantly? On every channel it is shia curses the three and Ayesha, in so doing they push anger into the hearts of sunnis across the globe. You do not see anything but this anger pushing agenda. It’s a very effective tool. When they make fun of us to obtain the psychological effect of memory retention http://www.valpo.edu...?releaseId=3358 then make us appear stupid and ignorant to make it appear we are not real followers of the Prophet (saw) thus taking out any brotherly aspect to the relationship between sunni and shia, then last but not least, utilize the driving force of anger, thus making an army of people who think nothing of killing us all, even convincing them these actions are right and just.

And Shia are feeding them the ammunition, we help daily their cause, thus inadvertently becoming their supporters through ignorance. Our Aimmah (as) have cautioned against this.

Edited by thenamelessone
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I told you to give him more time. Once it became clear he was a troll, then I said it would be understandable to be harsh with him. Just because you turned out to be correct, it doesn't mean that your initial approach was right. As for Dawud al-Miqdad al-Amriki, after recent interactions with him, it has become clear he has no sense whatsoever. I have time for the uninformed, of whatever religion, but very little for fools. Unfortunately he is both uninformed and foolish.

By the way, he has sent lanah on me, has implied I am a kafir, and judging by his above post also a nasibi. So how nice exactly do you expect me to be with him?

I know you love your rijaal and sciences, so how about you bring the Arabic source for these hadith?

Don't hide behind our disagreement as a means for avoiding the question.

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No reference? For....

"And Imam Ja'far said: Verily, I hear a man abusing me in the mosque; and I hide myself behind a pillar so that he may not see me. And he (Imam Ja'far) said: Mix with the people (enemies) outwardly, but oppose them inwardly, so long as the Amirate (imratun) is a matter of opinion. And he also said: Verily diplomacy (arri'a') with a true believer is a form of shirk (polytheism); but with a hypocrite (munafiq) in his own house, it is worship."

Can the galactically stupid please stay away from my threads?

Ouch.

Anyway, Shaykh Saduq is quoting them to support his argument. Is that not enough for you?

Saduq said it and it's enough? Are you for real? :wacko:

Edited by Ugly Jinn
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I'm stupid because I disagree with you and do tabarra of you because you think it's halaal to marry & sexually satisfy oneself with infants. Right, I guess that does make me stupid. Moving on.

Do you have the source or not?

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I'm stupid because I disagree with you and do tabarra of you because you think it's halaal to marry & sexually satisfy oneself with infants. Right, I guess that does make me stupid. Moving on.

No, what makes you stupid is you inability to understand simple arguments, among other things.

Do you have the source or not?

A source for what? I'm quoting Saduq, so you should ask him what his source was. If you want the Arabic version of the hadith, just go and look in the Arabic version of I'tiqadqtu 'l-Imamiyyah. I'm sure the hadith can be found in the major Shia collection of hadith as well, but it's not my job to go looking for it on your behalf.

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HH just report him, he is a troll and I find his religious persuasion doubtful, seriously, let the mods deal with him, he is sending laana on us. this has to be against shiachat policy, its one thing to discuss with one another its a whole different to do what he is doing

Edited by thenamelessone
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I told you to give him more time. Once it became clear he was a troll, then I said it would be understandable to be harsh with him. Just because you turned out to be correct, it doesn't mean that your initial approach was right. As for Dawud al-Miqdad al-Amriki, after recent interactions with him, it has become clear he has no sense whatsoever. I have time for the uninformed, of whatever religion, but very little for fools. Unfortunately he is both uninformed and foolish.

By the way, he has sent lanah on me, has implied I am a kafir, and judging by his above post also a nasibi. So how nice exactly do you expect me to be with him?

I saw immediately from the tone and nature of his post exactly what he was about so why give him time and for what purpose? .If you can't spot blatant trolling that's not my fault.

But I see nowhere above where the brother has been rude towards you; his lana'at is on kafir and nawasib, not on you. And I would be surprised if you used such harsh language anywhere on this forum towards a sunni.

(bismillah)

(salam)

This is the address to the reliigous aspect from our books

Referring to the story mentioned in Quran about Samiri: "Then he (i.e., Samiri) brought out before the (people) a calf whose body gave forth a lowing sound: so they said: This is your god (20:88)" Is'haq Ibn Ammar narrated:

I asked Imam Musa Ibn Ja'far (as) to tell me about those two (i.e we can infer). He (as) said: "the first was in the place of calf and the second was in the place of Samiri."

- Thawab al-A'mal, p215

- Jami'ul Akhbar, p143

- Bihar al-Anwar, v30, p407, Hadith #4

By insulting certain men and women we have thus insulted the sunnis gods, and we are told not to insult the gods of others in accordance with Islamic akhlaq in the Qur'an, lest our GOD be insulted. This does not mean we are not doing tabarra privately nor does it mean we are not teaching our children to hate oppressors and those who did not love and respect the Imam (as). It means that we do not insult their gods to their faces.

Can we teach them using proofs in their books with perfect akhlaq the truth of what happened? Of course! But no matter the ahadith this is all we can do, we do not argue we do not fight and we always keep perfect akhlaq with them. If you want to do certain things privately it is between you and the Imam (atf) however, when you breech Islam publicly (breaching taqiyyah and akhlaq) you have done a grievous wrong.

This is the address to the political aspect.

anger augments a sense of personal control, lowers perceptions of risk, and makes people less willing to admit a mistake. As a result, angry employees are more likely to commit further resources to a failing project or choice.”

By contrast, fear makes people second-guess themselves and often abandon support for efforts that have gone even slightly off the tracks. A second, similar study measured employees’ financial decision making. The results were the same; angry individuals were more likely to allocate funds to a failing division than those who were afraid.”

http://www.strategy-...9413d?gko=25b9b

This article discusses the psychological effects of anger in decision making in the workforce, however, the psychological effects of anger is just that, an effect, and at times it can be a good effect depending upon ones end goal. The various government powers have need of the support of ordinary people in order to wage war, a populous that is in agreement with the government will support that governments actions. There is a need of someone to pull the trigger, and you can bet it won’t be the House of Saud; therefore, there is a strong need of people who will do this, and controlling people through fear doesn’t work to the extent of controlling people through anger. While the government may have one particular agenda, there is need for the populous to have a reason to support said government.

Due to greed in many cases, those that control the Sunni led governments of the world have aligned themselves, to great extent, with our enemies. Our enemies have a goal to which we, the Shia, appear to stand in the way, as we stand against those things they enjoy. We are the ideological voice against greed and materialism, against oppression and injustice in order to obtain material wealth. So long as there is a moral voice against these goals, this voice is likely to influence others.

Therefore, what do they need to do? Eliminate this voice to the greatest extent possible. We have begun a war of ideology, a war for the hearts and minds of men, but now, on a global scale. How do they obtain support of the common man? Anger.

What do the wahabbis push constantly? On every channel it is shia curses the three and Ayesha, in so doing they push anger into the hearts of sunnis across the globe. You do not see anything but this anger pushing agenda. It’s a very effective tool. When they make fun of us to obtain the psychological effect of memory retention http://www.valpo.edu...?releaseId=3358 then make us appear stupid and ignorant to make it appear we are not real followers of the Prophet (saw) thus taking out any brotherly aspect to the relationship between sunni and shia, then last but not least, utilize the driving force of anger, thus making an army of people who think nothing of killing us all, even convincing them these actions are right and just.

And Shia are feeding them the ammunition, we help daily their cause, thus inadvertently becoming their supporters through ignorance. Our Aimmah (as) have cautioned against this.

Right, so how does this fit with what I said, namely lana'at on the usurpers in our OWN gatherings (or, if you wish, privately)? And how does it address the question of opression of Shi'ah for all the years up to the technological age?

You're giving the enemy a reason for persecuting Shi'ah when they don't need it. If every single Shi'ah in the world stopped lana'at from today their mullahs would say "the devious Rafidhi are practicing taqiyyah so don't be fooled."

The stone is set and any (perceived) damage is done. We are on Haqq and that's the reason for emnity.

Where do you people want to draw the line; remove "AliyunwaliAllah" from adhan? Ban Ziyarat e Ashura? Burn all books that speak harshly of the three? Change the sala'at so we pray with crossed arms? Join them in tarawih? Agree muta is haraam? Stop public azadari because it's haraam for them?

Wake up and get a grip. Constant hiding of your faith (when your life isn't in direct danger) is not the solution, being steadfast in Truth and proving by our words and deeds the madhabb of Ahlulbayt (as) is true Islam is the only way.

Maula protect the Guided and guide the lost.

ALI

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I saw immediately from the tone and nature of his post exactly what he was about so why give him time and for what purpose? .If you can't spot blatant trolling that's not my fault.

The point is you shouldn't make assumptions until you have more proof. It's like you could have 100% certainty, and in any case, there was no need for the type of language you were using.

But I see nowhere above where the brother has been rude towards you; his lana'at is on kafir and nawasib, not on you. And I would be surprised if you used such harsh language anywhere on this forum towards a sunni.

He did it in chat, and this is a continuation of it.

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