Question About The Shia .

[Noura]

(salam)

I do not know much about the shia but i want to learn some things and clear up some miscoception I may have, first do shia pray three times a day I herd that somewhere , second is it mandatory for the shia to follow an ayatollah or are they a guide like a mufti or imam at a masjid, thirdly can shia be sufis like are their shia sufis, forthly, this may be a misconception but i herd the shia keep Ali and hussien and Imam al jaffar in the same level as the prophet muhammed and finally is shia more liberal or strict then the ahlus sunnah, because I technically am from a family of the ahlus sunnah who is very liberal but I know many of the ahlus sunnah who are crazy strict and I don't like that ?

[Haydar Husayn]

(salam)

(wasalam)

I do not know much about the shia but i want to learn some things and clear up some miscoception I may have,

No problem, insha'Allah.

first do shia pray three times a day I herd that somewhere

Shias pray 5 times a day, but most combine dhuhur and asr, and maghrib and isha, since the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) taught that this was permissible. It is better to pray them seperately though. Incidentally, this practiced in confirmed in Sahih Muslim by Ibn Abbas:

Sahih Muslim, Bk 4, Number 1516:

Ibn 'Abbas reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) observed the noon and afternoon prayers together in Medina without being in a state of fear or in a state of journey. (Abu Zubair said: I asked Sa'id [one of the narrators] why he did that. He said: I asked Ibn 'Abbas as you have asked me, and he replied that he [the Holy Prophet] wanted that no one among his Ummah should be put to [unnecessary] hardship.)

second is it mandatory for the shia to follow an ayatollah or are they a guide like a mufti or imam at a masjid

There is a difference of opinion on that, but the current majority view among Shias is that you have to do taqleed, i.e. follow an ayatollah, although this is not a view I personally agree with. Most Sunnis also do taqleed, it's just that they do it to dead scholars. That's what the Malikis, Hanbalis, Hanafis, and Shafi`is do. Salafis however don't really do taqleed, although evidently some other Sunnis disagree.

thirdly can shia be sufis like are their shia sufis

Yes, there are Shia Sufis. How well this fits in with the teachings of the Imams (as) is another issue, but this is a big debate.

forthly, this may be a misconception but i herd the shia keep Ali and hussien and Imam al jaffar in the same level as the prophet muhammed

It depends on the Shia, but the orthodox view is that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the greatest creation of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, and that he is of a higher status than any other human being, including Fatima (as) and the 12 Imams (as).

and finally is shia more liberal or strict then the ahlus sunnah, because I technically am from a family of the ahlus sunnah who is very liberal but I know many of the ahlus sunnah who are crazy strict and I don't like that ?

It's hard to say. Just as with Sunnis, there is a wide variety within the school of the Ahlulbayt (as). Even among the scholars, some are much more strict or liberal than others. However, the goal should be to obey Allah (swt) and His Messenger (pbuh) as best we can, not to for us to decide to be strict or liberal.

[Awaiting_for_the12th]

1) sunnis pray 3 times a day too, and so can you. A misconception that only shias do it.

2) For Islamic Jurisprudence, yes one has to follow a Marja since they themselves do not know how to derive all islamic laws. For example: do you know all the rulings concerning Fasting?

3) Shias are not sufis.

4) Misconception, false

5) there is no such thing as liberal or strict sister. When Prophet pbuh taught islam he didnt gave any versions of islam.

[BillyJo]

(salam)

I do not know much about the shia but i want to learn some things and clear up some miscoception I may have, first do shia pray three times a day I herd that somewhere , second is it mandatory for the shia to follow an ayatollah or are they a guide like a mufti or imam at a masjid, thirdly can shia be sufis like are their shia sufis, forthly, this may be a misconception but i herd the shia keep Ali and hussien and Imam al jaffar in the same level as the prophet muhammed and finally is shia more liberal or strict then the ahlus sunnah, because I technically am from a family of the ahlus sunnah who is very liberal but I know many of the ahlus sunnah who are crazy strict and I don't like that ?

1) Haydar answered

2) We believe that the only person who can lead us in prayer has to be a pious person with right beliefs.

3) Some are but majority aren't and oppose this deviation

4) No. We say the best of Prophets is Muhammad (P), after him there are many sayings some say Imam Ali is better than the rest of the Imams and others say Fatima a.s is better than the Imams and Imam Ali a.s. We believe Imam Hassan is better than Hussain and the rest of the Imams there is no specific opinion.

5) I would say it depends on the person himself.

Salam

[Noura]

Wasalam, what is the Shia view on the hijab is it wajib to shia, and also dating, their is conflicting views in the ahlus-sunnah but I wonder if Shia have a consensus on such issues.

[Noura]

Wasalam haydar i thought the basis for the Shia madhab is imam el jafar el sadiq? also the salafia consider imam hanabali as imam el sunnah.

[Haydar Husayn]

Wasalam, what is the Shia view on the hijab is it wajib to shia, and also dating, their is conflicting views in the ahlus-sunnah but I wonder if Shia have a consensus on such issues.

Hijab is wajib in our school, and dating is haram. However, muta (temporary marriage) could be used for dating purposes.

Wasalam haydar i thought the basis for the Shia madhab is imam el jafar el sadiq? also the salafia consider imam hanabali as imam el sunnah.

Many of our ahadith are transmitted from Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (as), which is why our school of thought is often called the Jafari school. However, we follow the Prophet (pbuh) and all 12 Imams (as), not just one of them. Some of the Sunni 'Imams', like Abu Hanifa and Malik ibn Anas were actually students of Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (as). The difference between our Imams and theirs is that ours are infallible descendents of the Prophet, who have inherited his knowledge, while they follow random fallible scholars.

[Noura]

What does it mean to be infallible, the ahlus-sunnah considers the prophet muhammed (pbuh) to be the best muslim to ever exist but he wasen't free from sin and he wasen't perfect .

[Propaganda_of_the_Deed]

What does it mean to be infallible, the ahlus-sunnah considers the prophet muhammed (pbuh) to be the best muslim to ever exist but he wasen't free from sin and he wasen't perfect .

As a fellow Sunni I beg to differ, we do see the Prophet s.a.w as being sinless, I guess you could say we only see the Prophet as Infallible but that we don't see it as being extended onto others.

[Haydar Husayn]

What does it mean to be infallible, the ahlus-sunnah considers the prophet muhammed (pbuh) to be the best muslim to ever exist but he wasen't free from sin and he wasen't perfect .

There is a difference of opinion on that among Sunnis, but Shias almost unanimously consider the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) to be free from sin. The same opinion is generally held about previous prophets, but I think there are some who have allowed the possibility that they may have committed minor sins, especially prior to becoming prophets.

However, free from sin doesn't mean perfect. Nobody is perfect except Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

[Noura]

Do shia have a consensus on Music ? I am wondering because their are famous shia singers in lebanon but shia seem to be pretty strict on such things . And how about alcohol and going to parties ? Their is divergence with the ahlus-sunnah, also how is law made in a country like iran which is a strict shia country, if a shia can follow different ayatollahs is their a body of shia scholars that make fatwas or do they have the equivalent of grand muftis in such or are their a bunch of different opinions on different things ?

[Awaiting_for_the12th]

Do shia have a consensus on Music ? I am wondering because their are famous shia singers in lebanon but shia seem to be pretty strict on such things . And how about alcohol and going to parties ? Their is divergence with the ahlus-sunnah, also how is law made in a country like iran which is a strict shia country, if a shia can follow different ayatollahs is their a body of shia scholars that make fatwas or do they have the equivalent of grand muftis in such or are their a bunch of different opinions on different things ?

Music = haram

Alcohol = haram

Party = haram

[thenamelessone]

Do shia have a consensus on Music ? I am wondering because their are famous shia singers in lebanon but shia seem to be pretty strict on such things . And how about alcohol and going to parties ? Their is divergence with the ahlus-sunnah, also how is law made in a country like iran which is a strict shia country, if a shia can follow different ayatollahs is their a body of shia scholars that make fatwas or do they have the equivalent of grand muftis in such or are their a bunch of different opinions on different things ?

Hello it is nice to meet you

I would like to take the effort to answer these questions. Alcohol is forbidden across the board, no question. As far as rulings, we have many different Ayatollahs who make rulings based on Quran and ahadith of the Imams (as) and Prophet (saw) If I choose to follow Ayatollah x then I follow all of his rulings in Islamic law, unless he is not as knowledgeable in a particular area then I can take the ruling of law from an Ayatollah who is more knowledgeable in that area. For instance, Ayatollah x is not as knowledgeable in banking and Ayatollah z is then in banking I can follow the rulings of Ayatollah z. However, all the Ayatollahs can have slight differences in their rulings here and there, example, Ayatollah x says music without words is allowed and Ayatollah z might say forbidden. They can disagree, but I cannot decide I like one Ayatollahs rulings over another and take the one I like best, because this defeats the purpose, it would be called fatwa shopping so that you can do more things and this is not the point, the point is to attempt to follow Islamic law to the best of ones capability. This is called taqleed and a good majority do this,

Some Shia's do not follow rulings from the Ayatollahs but these are fewer and generally follow a stricter code of Islamic law.

As to music some allow such as classical music and one or two extreme liberal Ayatollahs allow some vocals so long as they are not of a sexual nature. Of course people are people and we have many secular shia too, who do what they like and only relate to the religion due to birth.

We are different from the sunni because we have different books of ahadith (traditions), we only accept narrations of the words and actions of the Prophet (saw) from the Family of the Prophet (saw) and who we consider to be 'righteous' companions (ra), this gives us in many cases very different interpretations of the Holy Quran.

Iran is a theocratic republic headed by a group of Ayatollahs who interpret public law according to the Quran and Holy Traditions. (this is the only way I think of it so someone else may have a better understanding)

Edited February 17, 2012 by thenamelessone

[Haydar Husayn]

Do shia have a consensus on Music ?

Not really. There are different views among different scholars. In general, everyone would consider the type of music that is played at parties and such things to be haram though. Some might say music is completely haram, while others would allow classical music and other types of music.

I am wondering because their are famous shia singers in lebanon but shia seem to be pretty strict on such things .

Yeah, that would probably be considered haram by most scholars.

And how about alcohol and going to parties ?

It is haram to sit at a table where there is alcohol, and you should avoid any locations where a lot of alcohol is being served. Obviously drinking it is completely haram.

Their is divergence with the ahlus-sunnah, also how is law made in a country like iran which is a strict shia country, if a shia can follow different ayatollahs is their a body of shia scholars that make fatwas or do they have the equivalent of grand muftis in such or are their a bunch of different opinions on different things ?

Iran have their own public laws, but people follow different scholars for their personal religious practice. Someone from Iran may be able to tell you more though.

[Noura]

(salam)

What is the shia hadith other then kitab el kafi and that book with the sayings of Ali ? And will this be a bad conclusion because I lived in Beirut for 16 years of my life and sometimes went to the shia majority part, and the shia that i had some aquiantance with, I always thought of them as the equivalent to a salafi, or the most strict hanafi, is that a bad conclusion ? Also, as the shia consider the prophets family to be infallible, what do they beleive of the hashmites, people descdent from the prophets great grandfather ? Also what are the shia views on major and minor sins, do they differ from the ahlus-sunnah much and do they have a concesnus on what will get you to jannah or what will get you to jaheem ?

[Haydar Husayn]

What is the shia hadith other then kitab el kafi and that book with the sayings of Ali ?

The book with the sayings of Ali (as) you are referring to is Nahjul Balagha. Apart from al-Kafi, the three other major primary Shia books of hadith are Man la yahduruhu al-faqih by Shaykh Saduq, Tahdhib al-Ahkam and al-Istibsar, but by Shaykh Tusi.

And will this be a bad conclusion because I lived in Beirut for 16 years of my life and sometimes went to the shia majority part, and the shia that i had some aquiantance with, I always thought of them as the equivalent to a salafi, or the most strict hanafi, is that a bad conclusion ?

Not all Shias are strict with their religion, just as no all Sunnis are, but why do you see this as such a bad thing? Isn't doing your best to live the way Allah wants you to a good thing?

Also, as the shia consider the prophets family to be infallible, what do they beleive of the hashmites, people descdent from the prophets great grandfather ?

We don't consider all the Prophet (pbuh)'s family to be infallible, just Fatima, Ali, al-Hasan, al-Husayn, Ali Zayn ul-Abideen, Muhammad al-Baqir, Jafar as-Sadiq, Musa al-Kadhim, Ali ar-Ridha, Muhammad al-Jawad, Ali al-Hadi, al-Hasan al-Askari, and Muhammad al-Mahdi, peace by upon them all. Various other members of the family may also have had a high status, but they were not infallible.

Also what are the shia views on major and minor sins, do they differ from the ahlus-sunnah much

I think they are about the same, but you can check for yourself: http://www.al-islam.org/greater_sins_complete/

do they have a concesnus on what will get you to jannah or what will get you to jaheem ?

The only real major difference between the two schools on this issue is that in Shia Islam you need to acknowledge the imamat in the twelve Imams in order to be guarantees Jannah. That doesn't mean anyone who doesn't believe this will go to Jahnam, but it's not a guaranteed path.

[Noura]

The book with the sayings of Ali (as) you are referring to is Nahjul Balagha. Apart from al-Kafi, the three other major primary Shia books of hadith are Man la yahduruhu al-faqihby Shaykh Saduq, Tahdhib al-Ahkam and al-Istibsar, but by Shaykh Tusi.

Do you have a link to Istibsar in english or arabic ?

Not all Shias are strict with their religion, just as no all Sunnis are, but why do you see this as such a bad thing? Isn't doing your best to live the way Allah wants you to a good thing?

I feel being to strict takes the enjoyment out of life , and to much orthodoxy can be bad, and Allah the most merciful beneficent will judge us at the end..

We don't consider all the Prophet (pbuh)'s family to be infallible, just Fatima, Ali, al-Hasan, al-Husayn, Ali Zayn ul-Abideen, Muhammad al-Baqir, Jafar as-Sadiq, Musa al-Kadhim, Ali ar-Ridha, Muhammad al-Jawad, Ali al-Hadi, al-Hasan al-Askari, and Muhammad al-Mahdi, peace by upon them all. Various other members of the family may also have had a high status, but they were not infallible.

What makes the Imams different then the other family members of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), what distintcly makes them infaliable, why is the prophet sons not considered infaliable or his other daughters or the prophets uncle like Hamza Ibn Mutalib, is Khajida (ra) considered infaliable ?

The only real major difference between the two schools on this issue is that in Shia Islam you need to acknowledge the imamat in the twelve Imams in order to be guarantees Jannah. That doesn't mean anyone who doesn't believe this will go to Jahnam, but it's not a guaranteed path.

So if you accept the Imamat of the twelve imams then you automatically go to Jannah ? Also how do Shia feel about Dr. Amr Khaled I am a fan of his, how do shia view him ?

[thenamelessone]

(bismillah)

I would like to interject at this time. First if you are truly interested in learning about Shia Islam then I would suggest two things. Reading books on the topic, there are a great many written by our scholars @ http://www.al-islam.org/ which will answer your questions better than anyone here on this site can. A second suggestion is to find a Shia Islamic center near you and go and speak to them in person for some of your questions. The people here on this site are mainly children who do not have the knowledge of our scholars, you are not going to find serious answers here.

I would however like to adress one point you keep mentioning, that is the strictness (or not) of our faith. The point here is not whether or not we are strict in following the reliigon. We believe this is the religion of Allah and as such is one religion and one set of laws. These laws are not altered according to our desires, they are immutable. Whether or not you choose to follow these laws is up to you, and between you and Allah, but it does not change what they are. Nothing changes what they are. It is the way of the One who is Perfect.

Ma'a Salaama

Edited February 18, 2012 by thenamelessone

[Haydar Husayn]

Do you have a link to Istibsar in english or arabic ?

http://www.yasoob.co...ts.php?topic=12

It hasn't been translated into English.

I feel being to strict takes the enjoyment out of life , and to much orthodoxy can be bad, and Allah the most merciful beneficent will judge us at the end..

Well, I don't agree, but it's up to you how strict you want to be in your practice. In any case, better to be any kind of Shia than no Shia at all. So I wouldn't let this influence your decision too much. There are plenty of liberal Shias on this site, let alone in the real world.

However, I would encourage you to rethink your views on life. Once you start seeing what is truly important, then being a practicing Muslim does nothing to diminish your enjoyment of life.

What makes the Imams different then the other family members of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), what distintcly makes them infaliable, why is the prophet sons not considered infaliable or his other daughters or the prophets uncle like Hamza Ibn Mutalib, is Khajida (ra) considered infaliable ?

This is a big subject, for which you would probably be off consulting a book on the subject. Here are a few:

http://www.al-islam.org/leadership/

http://www.al-islam....layat/title.htm

http://hussainidalan...ish/imammat.pdf

http://www.shiamulti...he%20Master.pdf

In brief, the Imams (as) were chosen by Allah to be the leaders of the Ummah, and the protectors of the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh). This role requires them to be infallible. The primary source in the Quran for this infalliblity would be:

Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying. [33:33, Shakir]

There are many hadiths, both Shia and Sunni, that confirm this verse was revealed about Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husayn, peace by upon them. And obviously it doesn't make much sense for the first 3 Imams to be infallible, but not the others.

So if you accept the Imamat of the twelve imams then you automatically go to Jannah ?

The answer to this is a bit complicated, but it's not a question of just saying you accept it. If you really follow the Imams, then that will lead to a certain level of religious practice. For example, you would need to keep your obligatory prayers, fast during the month of Ramadan, etc. Only then could you be 'guaranteed' jannah.

Also how do Shia feel about Dr. Amr Khaled I am a fan of his, how do shia view him ?

I don't know anything about him, so I can't say.

Anyway, I would encourage you to look into Shi'ism, and accept it because you are convinced it's true, not because you think it would suit you better.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Haydar Husayn

[Closer to Death]

Can some one please get me the reference for the following quotes from the Prophet s.a.w.

"Hassan and Hussain are masters of youth in Paradise."

''Hussain is of myself and I am of Hussain. O' Allah be pleased with those who please Hussain and hate those who hate Hussain.''

I want to also ask, Why do the shia dislike/condemn saffiasm/wahhabiam?

[Noura]

Can you enter a shia masjid without using a hijab (whcih I don't use ) and I am trying to see all sects, I am not even really supper knowledgeable of the ahlus sunnah , also what are shia sufis called, and how do they differenate from normal shia, I like the sufis ? .

[Kismet110]

^^^

Sister, you shouldn't enter any masajid without hijab; even non-Muslims (including the Queen of Great Britain) wear hijab for going into a Muslim place of worship.

Shia sufis don't have different names just that there are strictly sunni sufi orders and some that stem from Shi'ah school of thought but these are lesser in number.

You need to understand that from a mainstream Twelver Shi'ah viewpoint sufi practices are not encouraged/condoned. By all means research on them if you wish then compare to mainstream Shi'ah.

I coule be wrong but maybe your inclination to sufi practices is because it's generally viewed as more tolerant, less rigid, spiritual over practical?

It may be all of those things but if what you seek is Truth then those things don't necessarily equate to it.

Can some one please get me the reference for the following quotes from the Prophet s.a.w.

"Hassan and Hussain are masters of youth in Paradise."

''Hussain is of myself and I am of Hussain. O' Allah be pleased with those who please Hussain and hate those who hate Hussain.''

I want to also ask, Why do the shia dislike/condemn saffiasm/wahhabiam?

The Messenger of Allah said: "Al-Hassan and al-Hussain are the chiefs of the youth of Paradise and Fatima is the chief of their women."

Sunni references:

(1) Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p660, on the authority of Abu Sa'id and Hudhayfa

(2) Sunan Ibn Majah, Introduction 8

(3) al-Tabarani, on the authorities of: Umar, Ali, Jabir, Abu Hurayrah,Usamah Ibn Zaid, al-Baraa, Ibn 'Adi, and Ibn Masud.

(4) al-Kubra, by al-Nisa'i

(5) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v1, pp 62,82, v3, pp 3,64, v5, p391

(6) Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, p771, Tradition #1360

(7) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, pp 166,167

(8) Hilyatul Awliyaa, by Abu Nu'aym, v5, p71

(9) Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p187

(10) Tuhfatul Ashraf, by Lumzi, v3, p31

(11) Ibn Habban, as mentioned in al-Mawarid, pp 551,553

(12) al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 11, section 3, p290

(13) Mishkat al-Masabih, by Khatib al-Tabrizi, English Version, Tdadition #6154

The Messenger of Allah said: "Hussain is from me and I am from Hussain."

Sunni references:

(1) Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v4, p172

(2) Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Hanbal, v2, p772, Tradition #1361

(3) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p 177

(4) Amali, by Abu Nu'aym al-Isbahani, p 64

(5) al-Kuna wal Asmaa, by al-Dulabi, v1, p88

(6) al-Tabarani, v3, p21

(7) Adab by al-Bukhari, also al-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah, as quoted in:

(8) al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Ch. 11, section 3, p291

(9) Mishkat al-Masabih, by Khatib al-Tabrizi, English Version, Tdadition #6160

Shi'ah don't dislike anybody except the nawasib (enemies of Holy Ahlulbayt (as)). A lot of salafi/wahabbi types (not all) show clear emnity towards the Holy Family (as) and their followers hence the opposition.

ALI

Edited February 20, 2012 by Kismet110

[Noura]

How is ihsan regarded in Shiaism ?