I'm Starting To Disbeleive In God.

[Sweetn]

Please I need help. For some weeks now my emaan has been at rock bottom and I question everything about God. It has come such stage that sometimes I consider myself as agnostic. I have a few questions that I would like to get some answers on.

1. If God is so nice then why has He from the very start made a hell and a heaven? Doesn't it pain Him to see His own people in hell?

2. He already knows which who is going to go to hell and heven so why in the first place did He do a hell and heaven?

3. I heard somewhere that on the judgement day one person will say to God " Why did you let me die so early?" and God will reply that He knew that the guy wouldn't be able to behave himself and God couldn't take to throw him in hell. And then another person will ask "But why did you put me in hell? Why didn't you make me die earlier?" And when I asked the sheikh who said this he said that everything is not fair in life. But isn't God supposed to be fair?

Please I need help. God before was my light. I love Him with all my heart but now I can't seem to even beleive in Him. Please help me.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Sweetn

[Firuzeh18]

If Allah (swt) takes action, literally action that shows people there is a God which is higher than humans, how will Allah (swt) seperate the good humans from the bad??

1) Its Allahs (swt) generosity that he made the hell and heaven.... in a way you expect that imam hussein (as) and yazid (la) both should go to heaven togethere.... now this would be clear injustice..... when it comes to justice he is the best.....

2) Now this would be clear injustice, so people who are bad from the beginning are bad till the day they day?? Ofcourse not. I have seen people who were once upon a time killers, but then they went to the path of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, and look how Allah (swt) was generous with these people and he even forgave them for their sins, he even made the lifes of these people more happy and he (swt) gave more blessings to these people......... Allah (swt) is so just that he wants to give every human a chance to prove themselves...... In a way your literally saying if the teacher knows i'm failing why does s/he let me take the exam.....

3) People say all sort of things, but it doesnt mean its true. These people who have made these comments have they been to hell?? Or are these sayings from a hadith if it is please put it forward....

I am telling you there was a time, I felt like this but then I repented because I knew at that time the Satan was literally whispering in my ear negative things........... If you really want to find Allah (swt) start with his name and trust me whoever intends to find a Allah (swt) with a pure heart, Allah (swt) will make himself visible with the enviroment around us, the everyday blessings and .

There are times that a feel like i'm like a spinnign wheel, and if it isnt for Allah (swt) I would never be able to move on in life, not even take a single step...........

I hope tha you remove these negative thougths of your head and you start to live again by starting with Bismillahe rahmane rahim...

Wa Salam

[Dawud.]

1.) The amount of rahma in this life is nothing compared to the amount of rahma in the hereafter. Our life is not meant to be lived in constant fear of going to the hellfire or concern with where others may be going. If you rationalize someone's life as a good one and them having done things worthy of Allah's mercy, do you think he doesn't see it also? We point out what Allah wants us to do and why it is Islam is the religion he chose for us. Worrying about who or why someone is going to hell is not a concern that should be on our minds. This is the type of doubting such things lead to.

2.) He does, we don't. The point of this life is not just to live, but to understand the nature of its purpose. This like is but to be a second in our entire existence and the hereafter is where true life begins. We do what we must in Islam during this life.

3.) "You hearing something from somewhere" shouldn't constitute as reason for doubts. Especially, as I am assuming it did, if it comes from a Shaykh.

[BillyJo]

I used to have the same problem I became an atheist for a while but al 7amdella I'm back now and converted to Shi'a Islam leaving my previous "sunni" faith so let me answer shortly

1) People who did crime deserve to be punished for their crimes. When a person who mass murdered people or did any crime he deserves to get ultimate pain. Allah told you not to do it so why did you do it? Obviously you weren't afraid. As for believers they all go to heaven after being judged for their sins and as for ignorant people form other faith they are all given a chance to believe in the afterlife

2) Because Allah swt can't punish you just because He knows you need to commit the actual sin to be punished.

3) This is a "sunni" argument they believe Allah swt created all our actions and judge us for them estaqfir'Allah

[Sweetn]

Yes I understanfd your point but if Allah (swt) is loves us so much how can He stand to see us in hell? Allah Loves everybody,so how can He put the sinners in hell? If you love someone you punish them but NOT that much punish as in hell.

[BillyJo]

Yes I understanfd your point but if Allah (swt) is loves us so much how can He stand to see us in hell? Allah Loves everybody,so how can He put the sinners in hell? If you love someone you punish them but NOT that much punish as in hell.

Let's say God its more powerful in English. He loves us believers and when we commit a sin we have to be punished for it and sometimes He forgives regardless of us deserving the punishment

[Shakir 53:32] Those who keep aloof from the great sins and the indecencies but the passing idea; surely your Lord is liberal in forgiving.

[Shakir 42:30] And whatever affliction befalls you, it is on account of what your hands have wrought, and (yet) He pardons most (of your faults).

[Shakir 39:53] Say: O my servants! who have acted extravagantly against their own souls, do not despair of the mercy of Allah; surely Allah forgives the faults altogether; surely He is the Forgiving the Merciful.

Do you think Yazeed l.a doesn't deserve hell? When you neglect God knowingly you deserve hell

[satyaban]

Please I need help. For some weeks now my emaan has been at rock bottom and I question everything about God. It has come such stage that sometimes I consider myself as agnostic. I have a few questions that I would like to get some answers on.

1. If God is so nice then why has He from the very start made a hell and a heaven? Doesn't it pain Him to see His own people in hell?

2. He already knows which who is going to go to hell and heven so why in the first place did He do a hell and heaven?

3. I heard somewhere that on the judgement day one person will say to God " Why did you let me die so early?" and God will reply that He knew that the guy wouldn't be able to behave himself and God couldn't take to throw him in hell. And then another person will ask "But why did you put me in hell? Why didn't you make me die earlier?" And when I asked the sheikh who said this he said that everything is not fair in life. But isn't God supposed to be fair?

Please I need help. God before was my light. I love Him with all my heart but now I can't seem to even beleive in Him. Please help me.

I sincerely hope than opposed to losing faith you are confused my a new perception of The Creator.

Your first question is a very good one. Perhaps there is no dualism and there is no hell. If you believe God wants us to return to him then there should be no hell but continued events to promote and teach us the way of return and as a loving Creator who gives chance after chance to his creation as a mother or father would do.

Secondly if you consider my answer to your first question two and three are not necessary.

Of course this is only my belief.

[Sweetn]

Let's say God its more powerful in English. He loves us believers and when we commit a sin we have to be punished for it and sometimes He forgives regardless of us deserving the punishment

[Shakir 53:32] Those who keep aloof from the great sins and the indecencies but the passing idea; surely your Lord is liberal in forgiving.

[Shakir 42:30] And whatever affliction befalls you, it is on account of what your hands have wrought, and (yet) He pardons most (of your faults).

[Shakir 39:53] Say: O my servants! who have acted extravagantly against their own souls, do not despair of the mercy of Allah; surely Allah forgives the faults altogether; surely He is the Forgiving the Merciful.

Do you think Yazeed l.a doesn't deserve hell? When you neglect God knowingly you deserve hell

I get so frustrated when nobody understands me. I'm sorry it's not your fault as I know you're trying to help me but If God loves us how could He in first place even let us go to hell? Why not,not create us and let us all go to heaven?

[Çåá ÇáÈíÊ]

I get so frustrated when nobody understands me. I'm sorry it's not your fault as I know you're trying to help me but If God loves us how could He in first place even let us go to hell? Why not,not create us and let us all go to heaven?

You're right. Apart from the transparently evil people and despotic tyrants, everyone should go to Heaven. If God is most merciful, and he is, this will happen.

[ThE-Samz]

brother, if you created something and if it disobeyed you, im pretty sure you would be angry. Imagine all the gifts and pleaures Allah swt has given us, not to mention that he created us and gave us life. yet we go around like it was all down to us and that everything we got in this world is downs to us. But thats not true. Everything we have in this world is because of Allah (swt)'s mercy. Even the chance of praising Allah (swt) is a blessing given to us by Allah.

Theres a lovely quote by imam Ali(as) : ‎"Man comes from a drop of semen and leaves as a piece of dust. He doesn't know when he came and he doesn't know when he's leaving, yet he goes around thinking he knows everything."

I hope that helps bro. wassalaam

Edited February 13, 2012 by Hezbollah313(Sameer)

[Ugly Jinn]

@Sweetn

I understand where you are coming from. The problem is that we are trying to define God according to what we feel God should be like. This approach is fundamentally wrong because every human is different, we are dynamic, if we define what God should do or not do then everyone will have a different definition of God - different definition of 'nice'.

Your question is pretty popular, it's basically asking why is there evil/suffering if God is Merciful/Nice/Just. Unfortunately, we don't know exactly why certain things happen, especially those uncaused by free will, that will be a mystery.

I personally believe having doubts is healthy, it means your mind is active, unlike some who just believe because that's what they were fed when young.

[Philip]

then start believing again for God's sake !

[*~Fatima~*]

Please I need help. For some weeks now my emaan has been at rock bottom and I question everything about God. It has come such stage that sometimes I consider myself as agnostic. I have a few questions that I would like to get some answers on.

1. If God is so nice then why has He from the very start made a hell and a heaven? Doesn't it pain Him to see His own people in hell?

2. He already knows which who is going to go to hell and heven so why in the first place did He do a hell and heaven?

3. I heard somewhere that on the judgement day one person will say to God " Why did you let me die so early?" and God will reply that He knew that the guy wouldn't be able to behave himself and God couldn't take to throw him in hell. And then another person will ask "But why did you put me in hell? Why didn't you make me die earlier?" And when I asked the sheikh who said this he said that everything is not fair in life. But isn't God supposed to be fair?

Please I need help. God before was my light. I love Him with all my heart but now I can't seem to even beleive in Him. Please help me.

1. God created free will, which allowed satan to reject Him despite knowing full well that He is the Creator and can smite him in an instance. What ultimate mercy is this that God allows creation to attempt to rise against Him?

2. God in His Divine Mercy, allowed almost all of His beloved Hujjah (a) to be tortured and murdered at the hands of insubordinate creation that abused the miracle of free will... Can you not feel the majesty of the mercy that God lets man do whatever he wills, even pit his will against the Divine Will, just because God wants him to believe, to accept Him somewhere along the path? He doesn't need acceptance, He doesn't need you or me or anyone, yet He tries to save you through guidance, reproach, trials, every means there is, all the while the miracle of 'free will' is also at work? However, God knows Hell is necessary for those who will disbelieve in spite of clear proofs. Read about Karbala, read about Hazrat Hur, and read about the evil Shimr. Read about the lives of the Ahl al Bayt (ams) and insha'Allah you will see mercy and wonder at it because it is humanly impossible. Philosophising and debating will get you so far, it is actual demonstration that solidifies faith, so continuing to read and understand is the best strategy whenever you feel your eman needs boosting..

3. Crazy story :| Don't believe anything that is not in congruence with God's self-described attributes...

@Sweetn

I understand where you are coming from. The problem is that we are trying to define God according to what we feel God should be like. This approach is fundamentally wrong because every human is different, we are dynamic, if we define what God should do or not do then everyone will have a different definition of God - different definition of 'nice'.

Your question is pretty popular, it's basically asking why is there evil/suffering if God is Merciful/Nice/Just. Unfortunately, we don't know exactly why certain things happen, especially those uncaused by free will, that will be a mystery.

I personally believe having doubts is healthy, it means your mind is active, unlike some who just believe because that's what they were fed when young.

Allah wished to be recognized. And He created a creation that recognized Him. How can anyone 'recognize' God without free will? It is a beautiful conclusion to reach that one believes in Allah without being "programmed" to.

And suffering isn't a mystery..

[satyaban]

brother, if you created something and if it disobeyed you, im pretty sure you would be angry. Imagine all the gifts and pleaures Allah swt has given us, not to mention that he created us and gave us life. yet we go around like it was all down to us and that everything we got in this world is downs to us. But thats not true. Everything we have in this world is because of Allah (swt)'s mercy. Even the chance of praising Allah (swt) is a blessing given to us by Allah.

Theres a lovely quote by imam Ali(as) : ‎"Man comes from a drop of semen and leaves as a piece of dust. He doesn't know when he came and he doesn't know when he's leaving, yet he goes around thinking he knows everything."

I hope that helps bro. wassalaam

"if you created something and if it disobeyed you, im pretty sure you would be angry."

Stop trying to assign such a base human emotion to The Creator.

[BillyJo]

"if you created something and if it disobeyed you, im pretty sure you would be angry."

Stop trying to assign such a base human emotion to The Creator.

God gave many of His attributes to creation but with minimal amount for example mercy, generosity, wisdom, and much more

[REMOVED]

I get so frustrated when nobody understands me. I'm sorry it's not your fault as I know you're trying to help me but If God loves us how could He in first place even let us go to hell? Why not,not create us and let us all go to heaven?

Its okay sister but its just that you want God to be what you want Him to be. God is God, He created you and gave you the chance to live that alone is a grace and mercy from Him. This world is God's house and He set rules. He told those who violated them that they will be punished and those who do good will get rewarded. If God says don't kill, steal, rape etc and you do it knowing that its wrong and God has a punishment for it then you deserve absolute punishment

Btw I read a beautiful answer to your questions a while ago from the greatest scholar/philosopher Mulla Sodra r.a who explained it better than we can so if you can go back to his books you might understand better. Walsalam

Edited February 14, 2012 by Replicant
You're allowed to disagree with other religions but don't disrespect them and swear at them.

[Ugly Jinn]

Allah wished to be recognized. And He created a creation that recognized Him. How can anyone 'recognize' God without free will? It is a beautiful conclusion to reach that one believes in Allah without being "programmed" to.

You didn't understand my point. There are sufferings that take place uncaused by free will. (ex. natural disasters, birth defect, etc.)

And suffering isn't a mystery..

The randomness of who suffers, how much they suffer, and when they suffer is a mystery for us.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Ugly Jinn

[Gypsy]

I get so frustrated when nobody understands me. I'm sorry it's not your fault as I know you're trying to help me but If God loves us how could He in first place even let us go to hell? Why not,not create us and let us all go to heaven?

So you can grovel and submit to God. If everything is perfect then no one will worship god. There wouldn't be a reason to.

[iDevonian]

Please I need help. For some weeks now my emaan has been at rock bottom and I question everything about God. It has come such stage that sometimes I consider myself as agnostic. I have a few questions that I would like to get some answers on.

1. If God is so nice then why has He from the very start made a hell and a heaven? Doesn't it pain Him to see His own people in hell?

2. He already knows which who is going to go to hell and heven so why in the first place did He do a hell and heaven?

3. I heard somewhere that on the judgement day one person will say to God " Why did you let me die so early?" and God will reply that He knew that the guy wouldn't be able to behave himself and God couldn't take to throw him in hell. And then another person will ask "But why did you put me in hell? Why didn't you make me die earlier?" And when I asked the sheikh who said this he said that everything is not fair in life. But isn't God supposed to be fair?

Please I need help. God before was my light. I love Him with all my heart but now I can't seem to even beleive in Him. Please help me.

You assume that you need help, but this is just normal thought processes. You may even be over thinking it. Heres what I think. Why dont you try saying "i really dont know the truth". Thats it, now live your life, be honest and if you dont know, you dont know. And lets see if your life changes at all. I've been living my life as an agnostic for years. I dont have answers. If there is a God, i hope he is watching over us, but it doesnt change my lack of knowledge. So I live my life without knowing the truth. Its not a bad thing to not know about something beyond our capability of knowing. Its not an issue to admit you dont know either.

You said you need help, help with what? Do you really think anyone here can show you something you havent already seen? We cannot show you miracles nor can we show you God anymore than you can already see yourself.

Its not a bad thing to admit that we lack knowledge of God.

And whats this about people burning for eternity? Nobody in this room knows anything more about the afterlife than you do. We have books sure, but books dont give the full picture. The philosophy behind it is unsettled, and the science is non existant. Its not a bad thing to be honest with yourself and say..."I dont know". Because nobody in here knows any more than anyone else. They may believe different things (we all believe different things), but they dont truly know...none of us do, and thats ok because with or without knowledge, it wont change us into bad people, we still will be good people and we will do good things, untill we find the truth.

[ThE-Samz]

"if you created something and if it disobeyed you, im pretty sure you would be angry."

Stop trying to assign such a base human emotion to The Creator.

im sorry if i caused any offence or said anything wrong. There are many incidents witten in the Qur'an which talks about Allah(swt)'s anger upon the ignorant and disobedient people of some of the prophets (as) generations.

God gave many of His attributes to creation but with minimal amount for example mercy, generosity, wisdom, and much more

Btw just by the name of your religion and the fact that I have never heard it before tells its BS

Thanks for support. :dry:

[BillyJo]

God can never be comprehended with out limited minds. The truth is Allah is absolute and we are limited do you think our minds can even comprehend Him? We have many proofs in Islam and morals which I believe you already know of which prove our religion. I know you believe in God but you might not understand His justice and that's okay because God is God He will remain God whether we understand Him or not we need to see the proof of Islam if that is proven then the justice of God is right. You think eternal hell for believers is wrong but remember that Allah judges us for our sins with an amount of punishment which is the amount of the sin and disbelief in God is an infinite sin which deserves infinite punishment. It makes perfect sense to me and many philosophers.

And I leave you with a quote I liked about the subject

If it be a question of complete and comprehensive knowledge of God then of course we must accept that man's ability to know does not extent that far. God's characteristics cannot be placed within given limits and whatever comparison or simile we offer for them is bound to be false for whatever is observable to science and thought in the natural realm is the work of God and the product of His will and command whereas His essence is not part of nature and does not belong to the category of created beings. Hence the essence of the divine being cannot be grasped by man by way of comparison and analogy.

Edited February 14, 2012 by BillyJo

[satyaban]

@Billyjo

"Btw just by the name of your religion and the fact that I have never heard it before tells its BS"

No, the fact that you have not heard of something means you are ignorant

"It makes perfect sense to me and many philosophers."

You are not a philosopher but an ignorant little boy.

Edited February 14, 2012 by satyaban

[BillyJo]

@Billyjo

"Btw just by the name of your religion and the fact that I have never heard it before tells its BS"

No, the fact that you have not heard of something means you are ignorant

Everyone hasn't heard of everything so everyone is ignorant but those who hear about what needs to be heard are intelligent. If you live in this world you need to know about Islam if someone told you about Islam and you said "I never heard about it in my life" everyone will make a joke out of you. As for your religion if someone is asked whether he knows it or no and the reply is negative no one will really care because knowing that religion holds no importance or significance whatsoever

[satyaban]

Everyone hasn't heard of everything so everyone is ignorant but those who hear about what needs to be heard are intelligent. If you live in this world you need to know about Islam if someone told you about Islam and you said "I never heard about it in my life" everyone will make a joke out of you. As for your religion if someone is asked whether he knows it or no and the reply is negative no one will really care because knowing that religion holds no importance or significance whatsoever

You continue to prove my previous post little boy.

[Lanatin]

1. If God is so nice then why has He from the very start made a hell and a heaven? Doesn't it pain Him to see His own people in hell?

a) Because it is unjust of God to treat evil doers like pious ascetics; each will get their due considering the fact that both groups have been inspired to distinguish between right and wrong at the start of their birth.

b ) Don't attach human emotions to God, evil doers have been unjust to their natural disposition by committing atrocities and have received their just due.

2. He already knows which who is going to go to hell and heven so why in the first place did He do a hell and heaven?

Because he is not directing the deeds of any individual, it is left for ourselves to become higher than angels or lower than animals. The only role God seems to play in all of this is that he has foreknowledge of all the acts committed by every soul, and that's all there is to it. No intervention by the Almighty whatsoever.

3. I heard somewhere that on the judgement day one person will say to God " Why did you let me die so early?" and God will reply that He knew that the guy wouldn't be able to behave himself and God couldn't take to throw him in hell. And then another person will ask "But why did you put me in hell? Why didn't you make me die earlier?" And when I asked the sheikh who said this he said that everything is not fair in life. But isn't God supposed to be fair?

This is not for us to comment on, since we are commenting on what we have no knowledge of. This is all in God's eternal knowledge and there are too many factors in life for us fallible humans to take into account (such as whether your soul is eternally bent on belief or disbelief, God giving respite to the disbelievers so that they may return to the right path as God's mercy precedes his wrath etc.)

Edited February 14, 2012 by La'nat Ma Man

[satyaban]

im sorry if i caused any offence or said anything wrong. There are many incidents witten in the Qur'an which talks about Allah(swt)'s anger upon the ignorant and disobedient people of some of the prophets (as) generations.

Thanks for support. :dry:

If you accept someone calling another's faith BS support you must really be desparate for it.

How do you determine someone's attributes, because they are subjective, without comparing him to someone else? Who do you compare The Creator to? God simply is, that is my belief. If there is another God to compare so atributes can be determined please tell me about the new one.

[MysticKnight]

So you can grovel and submit to God. If everything is perfect then no one will worship god. There wouldn't be a reason to.

Why wouldn't people worship God if the world is perfect. What is the reason people Worship God? Isn't suppose to be due to knowledge of him being worthy of Worship? How would that change if the world is perfect as opposed to being imperfect.

[ThE-Samz]

@billJo: This satyaban guy will never get it forget him.

@satyaban: BillyJo did support me, u made an allegation against me, and he backed me up and proved u wrong.

[eThErEaL]

Please I need help. For some weeks now my emaan has been at rock bottom and I question everything about God. It has come such stage that sometimes I consider myself as agnostic. I have a few questions that I would like to get some answers on.

1. If God is so nice then why has He from the very start made a hell and a heaven? Doesn't it pain Him to see His own people in hell?

2. He already knows which who is going to go to hell and heven so why in the first place did He do a hell and heaven?

3. I heard somewhere that on the judgement day one person will say to God " Why did you let me die so early?" and God will reply that He knew that the guy wouldn't be able to behave himself and God couldn't take to throw him in hell. And then another person will ask "But why did you put me in hell? Why didn't you make me die earlier?" And when I asked the sheikh who said this he said that everything is not fair in life. But isn't God supposed to be fair?

Please I need help. God before was my light. I love Him with all my heart but now I can't seem to even beleive in Him. Please help me.

1) Hell and Paradise are in fact each of our souls.

2) Person X goes to Hell and not Paradise because person X's identity or soul is Hell. you cannot make an apple into orange can you? an apple is an apple and an orange is an orange. same goes with souls.

.

3) the first two will answer your third. Inshallah

WaLlahu Alam.

[*~Fatima~*]

You didn't understand my point. There are sufferings that take place uncaused by free will. (ex. natural disasters, birth defect, etc.)

The randomness of who suffers, how much they suffer, and when they suffer is a mystery for us.

You didn't understand my point. There are sufferings that take place uncaused by free will. (ex. natural disasters, birth defect, etc.)

The randomness of who suffers, how much they suffer, and when they suffer is a mystery for us.

Oh. Yeah I guess. But Allah says that no harm befalls a believer except that it is for the atonement of his sins. As for natural disasters, birth defects etc., sometimes such trials drive the suffering person to reach out to God, when perfect health and worldly joy could make them forget about God. I think they are either a blessing in disguise being a trial to drive one closer to God, or to increase the person in the station of his Eman with God due to the forbearance and patience with which the trial is handled. And if it is a punishment, then Astaghfirullah and thank God that He is punishing us for our sins in this world, rather than for eternity in the afterworld...

[Alejandro Sosa]

Please I need help. For some weeks now my emaan has been at rock bottom and I question everything about God. It has come such stage that sometimes I consider myself as agnostic. I have a few questions that I would like to get some answers on.

1. If God is so nice then why has He from the very start made a hell and a heaven? Doesn't it pain Him to see His own people in hell?

2. He already knows which who is going to go to hell and heven so why in the first place did He do a hell and heaven?

3. I heard somewhere that on the judgement day one person will say to God " Why did you let me die so early?" and God will reply that He knew that the guy wouldn't be able to behave himself and God couldn't take to throw him in hell. And then another person will ask "But why did you put me in hell? Why didn't you make me die earlier?" And when I asked the sheikh who said this he said that everything is not fair in life. But isn't God supposed to be fair?

Please I need help. God before was my light. I love Him with all my heart but now I can't seem to even beleive in Him. Please help me.

These are hard questions to answer, but faith is what's important. There is no way human beings are here for no reason..you're telling me that we have all this intellect, all these thoughts, all this life..for nothing? we just play around for 70 years (most of us), drop dead...and that's it?

definitely not imo

God is beyond our comprehension and these are questions all of us have asked..inshallah we will find out the answers one day

Everyone hasn't heard of everything so everyone is ignorant but those who hear about what needs to be heard are intelligent. If you live in this world you need to know about Islam if someone told you about Islam and you said "I never heard about it in my life" everyone will make a joke out of you. As for your religion if someone is asked whether he knows it or no and the reply is negative no one will really care because knowing that religion holds no importance or significance whatsoever

agreed

[Pascal]

We've covered these things in very detailed length in other places, i dont think we need to waste energy on things that have previously been done in much better detail.

http://www.shiachat....ost__p__2340466 For the problem of evil and suffering

http://www.shiachat....the-unbelievers If disbelievers go to heaven or hell and the nature of heaven and hell

http://www.shiachat....ost__p__2322458 The nature of miracles

http://www.shiachat....oose-to-believe If you can even choose to believe what you do (still not concluded but i'm taking a very big break from debating these things)

http://www.shiachat....i-dont-believe/ A selection of 9 reasons among many why i don't personally believe. If you read any thread, read this one. It gets very indepth, i present my objections and the believers show why they think they have reason to believe.

https://en.wikipedia...oldid=476815570 Is also a very good place that presents both sides.

Wikipedia also has a good criticism series https://en.wikipedia...ticism_of_islam / https://en.wikipedia...oldid=473603069 / https://en.wikipedia...of_Christianity / https://en.wikipedia...oldid=475176332 / https://en.wikipedia...oldid=476511686 / https://en.wikipedia...ins_Delusion%3F

http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/

As for your specifics:

1) https://en.wikipedia...oldid=476716871 and on a more advanced level http://plato.stanfor...es/heaven-hell/

2) This is covered in my 9 reasons thread and the one on suffering.Why create a 9 year old girl who god knows will get brutally raped and murdered at an age before she is even able to get judged? Why let her go through such suffering. Being an all powerful being he could of made it so it didn't happen or simply of let her die peacefully or not be born at all and send her spirit to heaven, things like that.This discussion is initimately linked with the problem of evil(can easily find more by googling). I also see you very much touch upon the idea of predestination and free will (even though you might not identify it as such)https://en.wikipedia...oldid=473760254 .

3) Not much additional i can comment here but are *all* the properties of God consistent with each other? Is being all merciful and forgiving compatible with being all just? If he was all forgiving no one would go to hell but if he was all just, some people would go to hell and it negates his forgiveness and mercy.

You'll also find quite a lot here - http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/

Edited February 14, 2012 by kingpomba

[power]

Please I need help. For some weeks now my emaan has been at rock bottom and I question everything about God. It has come such stage that sometimes I consider myself as agnostic. I have a few questions that I would like to get some answers on.

1. If God is so nice then why has He from the very start made a hell and a heaven? Doesn't it pain Him to see His own people in hell?

2. He already knows which who is going to go to hell and heven so why in the first place did He do a hell and heaven?

3. I heard somewhere that on the judgement day one person will say to God " Why did you let me die so early?" and God will reply that He knew that the guy wouldn't be able to behave himself and God couldn't take to throw him in hell. And then another person will ask "But why did you put me in hell? Why didn't you make me die earlier?" And when I asked the sheikh who said this he said that everything is not fair in life. But isn't God supposed to be fair?

Please I need help. God before was my light. I love Him with all my heart but now I can't seem to even beleive in Him. Please help me.

Brother, i just like to make a recomandation read a book called Divine Justice it will answer most of your concern, it is a master pice of academic research into man and destiny i hope this will answer some of your tribulations.

[kim.tinkerbell]

1. If God is so nice then why has He from the very start made a hell and a heaven? Doesn't it pain Him to see His own people in hell?

There are levels of hell and heaven . God has said many times his forgiven , all we have to do is ask for forgivenise. No pain no gain.... You need to work hard suffer a bit to get rewarded. I think hell was designed to keep us on the right path, usually when you tell a little child that if you touch this you will get hurt so the child avoides it because there scared. The fact that you get scared it shows that your obeying the person thats stronger then you....

God is nice but we humans are ungratful and we have destroyed the earth and caused others to suffer....

Nice people get used sometimes and you cant be nice all the time. If you repet the same mistake 500 do you really think the other person will be as nice to you as they were the first time.

Having said that I still dont understand why children get turtored and god doesnt do much. Maybe he wants them to die early so that they go to heaven...

2. He already knows which who is going to go to hell and heven so why in the first place did He do a hell and heaven?

Life is a test. He wouldnt know completely because you have free will to make a descion. We have two angels writing what we do so I think his going to look at that file to determine where we are going.

[iDevonian]

1. If God is so nice then why has He from the very start made a hell and a heaven? Doesn't it pain Him to see His own people in hell?

There are levels of hell and heaven . God has said many times his forgiven , all we have to do is ask for forgivenise. No pain no gain.... You need to work hard suffer a bit to get rewarded. I think hell was designed to keep us on the right path, usually when you tell a little child that if you touch this you will get hurt so the child avoides it because there scared. The fact that you get scared it shows that your obeying the person thats stronger then you....

God is nice but we humans are ungratful and we have destroyed the earth and caused others to suffer....

Nice people get used sometimes and you cant be nice all the time. If you repet the same mistake 500 do you really think the other person will be as nice to you as they were the first time.

Having said that I still dont understand why children get turtored and god doesnt do much. Maybe he wants them to die early so that they go to heaven...

2. He already knows which who is going to go to hell and heven so why in the first place did He do a hell and heaven?

Life is a test. He wouldnt know completely because you have free will to make a descion. We have two angels writing what we do so I think his going to look at that file to determine where we are going.

What you fail to mention here is the fact that we are born into our corrupt world unwillfully, and by nature we are imperfect. Our corrupt decision making abilities are a product of the creator himself. You said humans are ungrateful and have destroyed the earth, but who created ungreatful beings? We were created ungreatful. Or so you believe.

Thankfully there are other options than believing in a contradictory story like yours.

Then you say, life is a test.

Tests are created to determine the ability of those taking the test. The results are provided to the seniors who give them, and the seniors judge them based on test results.

So here is a question for you. If God provides a test as a teacher does, does that mean that God doesnt know what results we will have on the test, just as a teacher doesnt know what results we will have?

God created us, he created the test too, so he should already know how the test will go and he already knows who will pass and who will fail when he creates us.

So in conclusion, this doesnt make any sense. "Life is a test"...that doesnt make any sense. "we are ungreatful", well that doesnt make any sense either, because God created us as ungreatful beings, and God created a test...a test in which he already knows the scores. Whats the value of a test if you already know the results your students will get?

Your beliefs do not make any sense. And dont give me that "we have free will to make good decisions, this is how we were made." garbage, because we can be created with free will, and the knowledge and morality to make purely good decisions...right? Or do you doubt the ability of Gods creative power?

So if we can be created with the abilities to make purely good decisions, then there is no need for a test, and there will be no ungreatful people. That would be the greater creation, not a corrupt one in which hell awaits us all.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Too many people here are acting like disbelief is a weakness, or is something corrupt. It's just another view, and depending on how you look at it, it can be a stronger view. To be able to live life with the recognition of ignorance over these questions in my opinion can be a form of maturity. Sure, having beliefs are fine, but to really be able to sit and say to yourself "hey, i dont know the answer", it says a lot. It cuts back on bias and manipulation of ideas too. Too many people are running around saying "hey this is the truth, thats the truth blah blah blah." No, lets stop...take a deep breath, and say "i dont know". Ok. Now lets go to the library and read up on our theology.

and please quit talking about stories you read in books when you were children...

Edited February 15, 2012 by iDevonian

[MysticKnight]

When it comes to God, I don't think any rational argument will ever convince anyone alone. There has to be some sort of intuite knowledge of God.

If God created the world and did want people to know he exists, I don't think placing that knowledge in some sort of philosophical argument would do justice to much of humanity, whom would never come across the philosophical argument.

It makes sense if God does exist, and wants us to know him, that he would be knowledge of himself in a sense that it doesn't need an argument for, or deduction. It rather is properly basic.

Right now you probably are looking for proofs of God, and I don't think you will find any that convincing. Perhaps the moral argument would be intuitive to a person, but to the skeptic, the argument will not be conclusive.

If your not convinced you know God in properly basic way - you can try looking towards arguments.

As for your questions, they call to question of some of the Abrahamic religions. I'm not going for or against what you said, as you came looking for explanations of Muslims, but I will say, if your doubting Islam, you are then also doubting the "proofs" of Islam.

So there is the argument by grace. That God is graceful, so he sends guidance. There is also the argument of Quran's uniqueness implying it is divine. As for the former, whether the argument is convincing or not, it will not falsify the religion. As for the latter argument, then it has to be true.

So here is my question to you: Do you think it's manifestly clear that Quran not having a Surah written like it by human beings implies it is divinely written. Or do you think it's possible to unique and the work of a human. That Mohammad's mind thought in a unique way, and it has yet to be replicated. Do you think it's not manifestly clear that it's uniqueness implies it being divine? If it's obscure it is, then it doesn't make sense to use an argument which it's soundness is not obvious to people, as an absolute proof of the religion.

But if you think it's manifestly clear it's uniqueness proves it's of divine origin - then it makes sense to accept the doctrines of the Quran.