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In the Name of God بسم الله

Saudi To Behead A Man Over Tweet?

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I am sure many of you wouldn't be acting as this person's lawyer if he was getting executed in Iran for speaking against the establishment or any of the 12.

That's a pretty random speculation (unless you've been on these forums for a long time, under a different alias).

The hypocrisy of many of you on here, astonishes me.

You make a (baseless, if you're new here) allegation, then you take that allegation as true, and make another allegation based on that that many here are hypocrites?

Anyways, I would never defend a person that insults our prophet SAW.

What was the insult? If it was just him saying that he would treat the Prophet as his equal, don't Salafis also say that? How about being more just? (how about justice 4 all?)

One was comitted by a Saudi citizen whilst in his own country, and apparently broke the law of his land, the other had nothing to do with Iran, was comited outside of Iran and wasn't an Iranian citizen? Either way don't look too much into it, I was basically saying they are similar to an extent, I think I've more than elaborated on this point.

No, you keep dodging the actual question (like your signature, if I may add heheh), hopefully not deliberately. I'm not asking you the where and how about these incidents, so please don't continue to focus on these unimportant specifics.

What I still don't have an answer from you on is: do you think these incidents are similar in their level of offensiveness (in other words, is the magnitude of both the offenses the same)?

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No, you keep dodging the actual question (like your signature, if I may add heheh), hopefully not deliberately. I'm not asking you the where and how about these incidents, so please don't continue to focus on these unimportant specifics.

What I still don't have an answer from you on is: do you think these incidents are similar in their level of offensiveness (in other words, is the magnitude of both the offenses the same)?

Maybe because the "actual question" is vague at best, you have been clinging onto this question for longer than you need to now, if you are looking for a blunt yes or no answer then you are barking up the wrong tree. I already have given you my position on this matter, and you can look at my past answers. How does one measure the "level of offesiveness" especially when both are based on fictitious narrations (the Satantic Verses was assumed to be about the Prophet s.a.w as it never explicitly mentioned his name, if you have actually read it). Consider my view on this particular issue closed.

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This is just a period of propaganda and conditioning, keeping Western untermenschen occupied that Saudi is synonymous with Compton, that there is no law and you can get killed for anything. You need to always keep an average Westerner busy with catchy slogans like "Man in Saudi beheaded over tweet", it is concise and no reading is further required, that is because the average Westerner has no idea where Saudi Arabia is on a map.. Saudis should take their bad press as a message: When the dust settles and the smaller nations have fallen, you're next. The radical Christian oligarchy in America has no time for Wahhabis, once they have been used they become obsolete.

We tend to believe that Libya has become a Wahhabi state and that the Saudi regime, together with America is 'gaining ground'. No. Wahhabis do the dirty work, the people in official positions are Western educated, who have been disciplined by their respective regimes to function as their governors once the previous one is overthrown. So once the role of Wahhabism is no longer needed to fight the dirty wars, the mass genocide, beheadings, snipers on rooftops, the ideological madrassas, the Wahhabists too will fall into fragmentation.

Elsewhere, NATO regimes use different radicals for different coups for their dirty jobs: In Venezuela, the bourgeoisie mob-families. In Russia and Iran, the hipsters and radical liberals who believe the West is a paradise, the middle-upper class who themselves wish to live like Shahanshahs and Tsars. etc.

Behind the curtains, the people that actually matter and will determine the future of their nations, are Western educated dogmatists. They have been trained, recruited and will take office.

I somehow feel bad for the Saudi regime, they genuinely think they have positioned themselves wisely with an ally like NATO, the clock is ticking.

.

Edited by bolbol
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Netenyahu says that tomorrow he'll attack Iran.

Some random guy says the same.

Do you see any difference?

Does your stinking hate for Israel enter into every subject you comment on. People like you make me sick. Off to the ignore list with you.

I have blogged about this news.

To save himself from being prosecuted, he tried to seek asylum. Unfortunately, he traveled to the worse possible country in the world to seek asylum - Malaysia. Malaysia doesn't believe in political asylums and they don't grant anyone political asylums. They will just treat you like a regular criminal after charging you for breaking immigration laws. Malaysia will also swiftly send you back to the same country that you are running away from!

Click here to continue reading

He wasn't seeking asylum in Malaysia was he but traveling on to New Zealand?

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Other than where and how it was printed, do you believe the level of transgression was the same (or more or less the same)?

In both cases they practiced their God given right of freedom of speech and the transgressors are who issued the fatwa for Rushdie's death,a pre approval for murder, and the KSA for their barbaric ridiculous laws. All of the other debate is inane and a waste of time. I am not pleased with with Malaysia's action but if KSA didn't have their ridiculous blasphemy law. The word blasphemy should not even be mentioned in criminal law.

I am sure many of you wouldn't be acting as this person's lawyer if he was getting executed in Iran for speaking against the establishment or any of the 12.The hypocrisy of many of you on here, astonishes me. Anyways, I would never defend a person that insults our prophet SAW. Saudi Arabia is on the truth here.

There should be no one to take him to task for what he said, hence there should be no need for defence. I would defend with my life my neighbors right to free speech and I have in the past.

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I agree Izrail,

The people who are calling for death sentences are not from us.

Take a look at this site http://imamshirazi.com/

You can see "peace, non-violence" articles and books written by this scholar.

He is opposed by the majority of Shi'ites today because he is against the violence and deviation prevalent amongst too many people who call themselves Muslim.

You are right, there are many times where the Prophet (pbuh) and `Aimmah (as) were peaceful even to their enemies and weren't calling for death, but today everyone is so hostile and bitter, it's unbelievably un-Islamic.

This is why we're all waiting for a Savior to return, the Mahdi (ajtf) who will come with Jesus (as) and set everything right.

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I'm sorry if this is a basic question, but is he really?

Yes, the family of Grand Ayatollah Muhammad Shirazi (who is in the world records for writing the most numerous of quality authoritative books) are shunned because they are strict in their beliefs against deviation. There is even evidence of assassination and foul play against him and some members of his family. You can investigate this all on your own inshallah.

There are a group of scholars and Shi'a who love Grand Ayatollah Muhammad Shirazi & G.A. Sadiq Shirazi, but they're a minority amongst the Shi'a.

Edited by Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki
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Some people are speaking out against the callous way Malaysia sent the boy back to his country to face a possible beheading.

The authorities should have studied the case of the Saudi Arabian journalist thoroughly before making the decision to send him back. “If it causes the loss of life, we have to see the justification,” he said.

The Human Rights Commission of Malaysia (Suhakam) calls the repatriation as a breach of international human rights rules and norms.

Saudi beheading Committee has a bloodthirsty reputation

The beheading of a woman, Amina Abdul Halim Salem Nasser, who was convicted of “witchcraft and sorcery”, sparked global outrage last year.

Read more

http://researchintoo...-be-denied.html

Edited by Gypsy
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What does Islam say about this,,,

I don't know what exactly this person is meant to have said, but this is what the Imams (as) said should be done to someone who insults the Prophet (pbuh):

عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ سَهْلِ بْنِ زِيَادٍ وَ عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ وَ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ جَمِيعاً عَنِ ابْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ عَمَّارٍ السَّابَاطِيِّ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ أَبَا عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع يَقُولُ كُلُّ مُسْلِمٍ بَيْنَ مُسْلِمَيْنِ ارْتَدَّ عَنِ الْإِسْلَامِ وَ جَحَدَ مُحَمَّداً ص نُبُوَّتَهُ وَ كَذَّبَهُ فَإِنَّ دَمَهُ مُبَاحٌ لِكُلِّ مَنْ سَمِعَ ذَلِكَ مِنْهُ وَ امْرَأَتَهُ بَائِنَةٌ مِنْهُ يَوْمَ ارْتَدَّ فَلَا تَقْرَبْهُ وَ يُقْسَمُ مَالُهُ عَلَى وَرَثَتِهِ وَ تَعْتَدُّ امْرَأَتُهُ [بَعْدُ] عِدَّةَ الْمُتَوَفَّى عَنْهَا زَوْجُهَا وَ عَلَى الْإِمَامِ أَنْ يَقْتُلَهُ وَ لَا يَسْتَتِيبَهُ

From `Ammaar Al-SaabaaTee said: I hear Abaa `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) he (عليه السلام) said: “Every Muslim amongst the Muslimeen who apostates from Islaam, and denies Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) prophecy and (call) him (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) a liar. His blood is allowed (to kill) whoever hears that from him. And his wife baa’inah (?) from the day of apostasy, and she should not go near him. And his wealth is divided amongst his heirs and his wife invokes upon herself `iddah of the death of her husband. And it is upon Imaam (leader) that he kills him, and does not ask for repentance”

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 7, pg. 257-258, hadeeth # 11

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)

à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 23, pg. 400

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع أَنَّهُ سَأَلَ عَمَّنْ شَتَمَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ ص فَقَالَ يَقْتُلُهُ الْأَدْنَى فَالْأَدْنَى قَبْلَ أَنْ يَرْفَعَهُ إِلَى الْإِمَامِ

From Hishaam bin Saalim from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) That he was asked about one who abuses the Messenger of Allaah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) So he (عليه السلام) said: “He is to be killed, for the lowest of the low (rebuke) before he is taken to the Imaam”

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 7, pg. 259, hadeeth # 21

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Hasan (Good)

à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 23, pg. 402

http://www.revivinga...e-in-islam.html

Edited by Haydar Husayn
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I don't know what exactly this person is meant to have said, but this is what the Imams (as) said should be done to someone who insults the Prophet (pbuh):

عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ سَهْلِ بْنِ زِيَادٍ وَ عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ وَ مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَحْيَى عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ جَمِيعاً عَنِ ابْنِ مَحْبُوبٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ عَمَّارٍ السَّابَاطِيِّ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ أَبَا عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع يَقُولُ كُلُّ مُسْلِمٍ بَيْنَ مُسْلِمَيْنِ ارْتَدَّ عَنِ الْإِسْلَامِ وَ جَحَدَ مُحَمَّداً ص نُبُوَّتَهُ وَ كَذَّبَهُ فَإِنَّ دَمَهُ مُبَاحٌ لِكُلِّ مَنْ سَمِعَ ذَلِكَ مِنْهُ وَ امْرَأَتَهُ بَائِنَةٌ مِنْهُ يَوْمَ ارْتَدَّ فَلَا تَقْرَبْهُ وَ يُقْسَمُ مَالُهُ عَلَى وَرَثَتِهِ وَ تَعْتَدُّ امْرَأَتُهُ [بَعْدُ] عِدَّةَ الْمُتَوَفَّى عَنْهَا زَوْجُهَا وَ عَلَى الْإِمَامِ أَنْ يَقْتُلَهُ وَ لَا يَسْتَتِيبَهُ

From `Ammaar Al-SaabaaTee said: I hear Abaa `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) he (عليه السلام) said: “Every Muslim amongst the Muslimeen who apostates from Islaam, and denies Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) prophecy and (call) him (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) a liar. His blood is allowed (to kill) whoever hears that from him. And his wife baa’inah (?) from the day of apostasy, and she should not go near him. And his wealth is divided amongst his heirs and his wife invokes upon herself `iddah of the death of her husband. And it is upon Imaam (leader) that he kills him, and does not ask for repentance”

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 7, pg. 257-258, hadeeth # 11

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)

à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 23, pg. 400

عَلِيُّ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ عَنْ أَبِيهِ عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي عُمَيْرٍ عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ سَالِمٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع أَنَّهُ سَأَلَ عَمَّنْ شَتَمَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ ص فَقَالَ يَقْتُلُهُ الْأَدْنَى فَالْأَدْنَى قَبْلَ أَنْ يَرْفَعَهُ إِلَى الْإِمَامِ

From Hishaam bin Saalim from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) That he was asked about one who abuses the Messenger of Allaah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) So he (عليه السلام) said: “He is to be killed, for the lowest of the low (rebuke) before he is taken to the Imaam”

Source:

1. Al-Kulayni, Al-Kaafi, vol. 7, pg. 259, hadeeth # 21

Grading:

1. Al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Hasan (Good)

à Mir’aat Al-`Uqool, vol. 23, pg. 402

http://www.revivinga...e-in-islam.html

That is certainly disturbing and offensive to all that is humane. Is this the obscenity that the KSA bases its sick brand of justice on.

Lastly is that what Islam says or what some man says?

I agree Izrail,

The people who are calling for death sentences are not from us.

Take a look at this site http://imamshirazi.com/

You can see "peace, non-violence" articles and books written by this scholar.

He is opposed by the majority of Shi'ites today because he is against the violence and deviation prevalent amongst too many people who call themselves Muslim.

You are right, there are many times where the Prophet (pbuh) and `Aimmah (as) were peaceful even to their enemies and weren't calling for death, but today everyone is so hostile and bitter, it's unbelievably un-Islamic.

This is why we're all waiting for a Savior to return, the Mahdi (ajtf) who will come with Jesus (as) and set everything right.

Perhaps you can tell us a few things about this Ayat's life such as his later life and if he is dead how did he die and where is he buried. Thanks.

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That is certainly disturbing and offensive to all that is humane. Is this the obscenity that the KSA bases its sick brand of justice on.

Lastly is that what Islam says or what some man says?

Perhaps you can tell us a few things about this Ayat's life such as his later life and if he is dead how did he die and where is he buried. Thanks.

Sorry I could never do it justice, but there is a brief biography for both of the scholars at this link

http://imamshirazi.com/biography.html

Muhammad Shirazi (may Allah grant him mercy) is dead, some say he was assassinated.

Grand Ayatollah Shirazi is distinguished for his intellectual ability and holistic vision. He is recognized for his clear ideas and realistic solutions to issues of concern to mankind. He has written various specialized studies that are considered to be among the most important references in the Islamic sciences of beliefs or doctrine, ethics, politics, economics, sociology, law, human rights, etc. He has enriched the world with his staggering contribution of more than 1200 books, treatise and studies on various branches of learning. His works range from simple introductory books for the young generations to literary and scientific masterpieces. Deeply rooted in the holy Qur'an and the Teachings of the Prophet of Islam, his vision and theories cover areas such as Politics, Economics, Government, Management, Sociology, Theology, Philosophy, History and Islamic Law. His work on Islamic Jurisprudence (al-Fiqh series) for example constitutes 150 volumes which run into more than 70,000 pages. Through his original thoughts and ideas he has championed the causes of issues such as the family, human right, freedom of expression, political pluralism, nonviolence, and Shura or consultative system of leadership.

Imam Shirazi believes in the fundamental and elementary nature of freedom in mankind. He calls for freedom of expression, political plurality, debate and discussion, tolerance and forgiveness. He strongly believes in the consultative system of leadership and calls for the establishment of the leadership council of religious authorities. He calls for the establishment of the universal Islamic government to encompass all the Muslim countries. These and other ideas are discussed in detail in his books.

Brother satyaban, I think you would benefit a lot from learning about him inshallah, one of the few great people of our time.

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That is certainly disturbing and offensive to all that is humane. Is this the obscenity that the KSA bases its sick brand of justice on.

Lastly is that what Islam says or what some man says?

Perhaps you can tell us a few things about this Ayat's life such as his later life and if he is dead how did he die and where is he buried. Thanks.

Well the Saudis dont believe in the 12 Imams and their authority, so they dont base their atrocities on these narrations. And yes the 12 Imams are humans, and the Imam being quoted above is supposedly Imam Al-Sadiq. I guess people would justify it by saying its not talking about opposing views, arguments and debates; it's talking about apostates who openly blurt out slurs and insults against the Prophet which would apparently be considered 'treason' in an islamic state. It's not talking about expression of opinions or anything of the kind.

What the significance of that is, i'll leave it to you.

Edited by La'nat Ma Man
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Sorry I could never do it justice, but there is a brief biography for both of the scholars at this link

http://imamshirazi.com/biography.html

Muhammad Shirazi (may Allah grant him mercy) is dead, some say he was assassinated.

Brother satyaban, I think you would benefit a lot from learning about him inshallah, one of the few great people of our time.

I do know about him but wanted a Muslim to say it.

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Well the Saudis dont believe in the 12 Imams and their authority, so they dont base their atrocities on these narrations. And yes the 12 Imams are humans, and the Imam being quoted above is supposedly Imam Al-Sadiq. I guess people would justify it by saying its not talking about opposing views, arguments and debates; it's talking about apostates who openly blurt out slurs and insults against the Prophet which would apparently be considered 'treason' in an islamic state. It's not talking about expression of opinions or anything of the kind.

What the significance of that is, i'll leave it to you.

I am all in for the following but not for what continued afterward because I find it incompatible.

"Imam Shirazi believes in the fundamental and elementary nature of freedom in mankind. He calls for freedom of expression, political plurality, debate and discussion, tolerance and forgiveness"

What I quoted is in diametric opposition to the filthy and obscene laws concerning "apostates who openly blurt out slurs and insults against the Prophet which would apparently be considered 'treason' in an islamic state." Calling what I just quoted as treason or any other crime is totally absurd.

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I am all in for the following but not for what continued afterward because I find it incompatible.

"Imam Shirazi believes in the fundamental and elementary nature of freedom in mankind. He calls for freedom of expression, political plurality, debate and discussion, tolerance and forgiveness"

What I quoted is in diametric opposition to the filthy and obscene laws concerning "apostates who openly blurt out slurs and insults against the Prophet which would apparently be considered 'treason' in an islamic state." Calling what I just quoted as treason or any other crime is totally absurd.

I agree.

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