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In the Name of God بسم الله

Jahil Troublemakers

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As per what I said, you still failed to address the issue post 20 brought up. As for my stance on the matter, I am not sure you can call me extreme you might wish to read my view in post #15.

My answer was

Yes. A marja is for fiqh. I follow two marjas because my marja allows me to follow another one if I believe they have the same knowledge. I follow Ayatollah Sobhani on everything else other than fiqh and he sent a message to sheikh Yasser al-Habib congratulating him on the celebrations. Even if I followed Ayatollah Makarem on everything am I his slave? Allah gave me a mind and I won't follow every single thing he says we have the right to disagree on cases which are a matter of taste.

As for your post, Shia have been killed for thousands of years based on whats in our books there was no scholar speaking of it. Actually more people were killed because most of it was lies they made against us like Jibreel made a mistake and gave Prophethood to Muhammad instead of Ali etc. And you can keep the goat we don't want it lol

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If Yassir cares so much about the dhulm of Ahlul-Bayt, tell me this: what did he do the day before which was the anniversary of Imam al-Hujjah (as) receiving his imamate? Everyday we are oppressing our Imam by commiting sins and weakening our souls from being strong enough to support him. So, please, tell us what did his center do to commemorate that event and bring us closer to our Imam? Surely supporting the 12th Imam (as) is more important than Umar's death, yes?

Also BillyJo-if Ayatullah Nasir Makarim is so important to you that you put his website under your 'Religion' info, why don't you ask him what the fiqhi status of these events is?

That has nothing to do with a marjaa and you failed to address it

I follow Ayatollah Sobhani on everything else other than fiqh

Also, to point out, you ONLY follow a marjaa in fiqh, this shows your ignorance of Islam in general, there is no taqleed in aqaid.

“God ordered Muslims in his holy book to make proximity among each other and eschew from division, “said Ayatollah Jafar Sobhani.

http://www.rohama.or...n-among-muslims

Somehow this doesnt sound like an Ayatollah who endorses people dressing up like clowns and having recorded broadcasted sessions of la'an (if this is what we can call it) against someone respected by the sunni. Therefore, if you really take his opinions of religion seriously, then I think you would take his interpretation to heart more.

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That has nothing to do with a marjaa and you failed to address it

I am sorry I didn't read that part here's the response but be rational

You said you want Sheikh Habib to give a lecture about Imam Mahdi receiving his Imamate? Here you go

As for your part saying supporting the Imam is better than Umar's death that's false. You can't disconnect the two because if Umar didn't take the caliphate our Imam would be Imam Mahdi a.s

Also, to point out, you ONLY follow a marjaa in fiqh, this shows your ignorance of Islam in general, there is no taqleed in aqaid.

Why does believing in taqleed make me ignorant?

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I was at this event.

So are the majority of scholars, but they hold these events in private.

They are doing taqiyyah but they know the truth of the event.

It's sad you people are being lied to and kept in the dark while your scholars are believing something entirely different behind closed doors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_of_the_assassination_of_Umar

Some of you say we're uneducated, what a typical self-defense mechanism, when all of the evidence is against you, you resort to emotional slander.

Watch Sheikh Yasser al Habib's many lectures if you understand Arabic, feel free to call in on his show and refute him, or email him.

If you really think he is so stupid and fake then why is everyone making a big deal out of him yet cannot refute anything he says?

(bismillah)

(salam)

Looks like al-Amriki didn't get the memo to wear red that day. :unsure: :donno:

Again with the emotional attacks. A lot of people don't wear red that day, including the great reciter you posted above me. It's not wajib.

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I was at this event.

So are the majority of scholars, but they hold these events in private.

They are doing taqiyyah but they know the truth of the event.

It's sad you people are being lied to and kept in the dark while your scholars are believing something entirely different behind closed doors.

http://en.wikipedia....ination_of_Umar

Some of you say we're uneducated, what a typical self-defense mechanism, when all of the evidence is against you, you resort to emotional slander.

Watch Sheikh Yasser al Habib's many lectures if you understand Arabic, feel free to call in on his show and refute him, or email him.

If you really think he is so stupid and fake then why is everyone making a big deal out of him yet cannot refute anything he says?

Again with the emotional attacks. A lot of people don't wear red that day, including the great reciter you posted above me. It's not wajib.

It was a nice lecture I hope I can participate when I go my lecture will be about Aisha's wickedness

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People may not find this type of celebration to their taste but I strongly believe that the Shia community in the West must condemn Umar (may Allah remove his mercy from him) and completely disasociate Islam from this tyrannical mysoginist and oppressor of the Holy Ahlul Bayt. Even if we solely consider his single act of threatening to burn down the house of the beloved Lady Fatima (as) we can say that the man was a coward and nasibi of almost the highest order. If we further look at how he fled the battle field twice in Uhud and Hunayn we see that he put his own life above that of the Prophet who he abondoned recklessly and shamefully. However his greatest crime was the usurpation of the right of Imam Ali (as). May Allah (SWT) shed light on the acts of this dictatorial, bigoted and cowardly usurper. His actions of brutality and his "esteemed" rank continue to tarnish the immaculate message brought by our Holy Prophet (as) and continued by our purified Imams (as).

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I have only one comment as I will allow brother cc_30 to reply to the questions he asked. But you all claim that you are such wonderful followers of the Imam (as) and that you do everything out of love of Him (as) (I think this is your claim anyway) however, what I do not have understanding of is why you do not follow the teachings of the Imam (as)?

Imam as-Sadiq (as): Do not ever do anything that can bring reproach upon us, because surely an evil son brings reproach upon his father through his deeds. Be good followers of the one whom you have dedicated yourselves for (i.e. the Imam (as) ) and do not be a disgrace to Him. Pray in their (i.e. sunnis) tribes, visit their ill ones, attend their funerals, and do not let them beat you to any good deed because you are more worthy of it than them. [Al Kafi Volume 2 Page 217 Chapter on "Taqiyyah" Hadith 11]

Be an example of Us and do not become a shame upon Us. - Imam Ja'far As-Saadiq (as)

Imam Ali (as) said in his epistle to the governor of Egypt. He said in his letter: “`Fill up your heart with affection and kindness towards people. Do not treat them fiercely like the greedy beasts, which feel satisfied by devouring each other. Be careful not to appropriate what belongs to the others. Remember that people are of two kinds; they are either your brothers in religion or your brothers in mankind. They are usually subject to mistakes but you have to forgive their inadvertent slips, if you would like to be forgiven by God."

Imam Ali (as) cited a passage from the Holy Qur’an ‘Best liked by Abraham and nearest to him were the people who obeyed him’. He further said, “That the present times are the times of our Holy Prophet and his faithful followers. The best friend of our Holy Prophet is he who, though not related to him, obeys the orders of Allah and his greatest enemy is the man who though related to him, disobeys Allah

Ma'a Salaama

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I have only one comment as I will allow brother cc_30 to reply to the questions he asked. But you all claim that you are such wonderful followers of the Imam (as) and that you do everything out of love of Him (as) (I think this is your claim anyway) however, what I do not have understanding of is why you do not follow the teachings of the Imam (as)?

Imam as-Sadiq (as): Do not ever do anything that can bring reproach upon us, because surely an evil son brings reproach upon his father through his deeds. Be good followers of the one whom you have dedicated yourselves for (i.e. the Imam (as) ) and do not be a disgrace to Him. Pray in their (i.e. sunnis) tribes, visit their ill ones, attend their funerals, and do not let them beat you to any good deed because you are more worthy of it than them. [Al Kafi Volume 2 Page 217 Chapter on "Taqiyyah" Hadith 11]

Be an example of Us and do not become a shame upon Us. - Imam Ja'far As-Saadiq (as)

Imam Ali (as) said in his epistle to the governor of Egypt. He said in his letter: “`Fill up your heart with affection and kindness towards people. Do not treat them fiercely like the greedy beasts, which feel satisfied by devouring each other. Be careful not to appropriate what belongs to the others. Remember that people are of two kinds; they are either your brothers in religion or your brothers in mankind. They are usually subject to mistakes but you have to forgive their inadvertent slips, if you would like to be forgiven by God."

Imam Ali (as) cited a passage from the Holy Qur’an ‘Best liked by Abraham and nearest to him were the people who obeyed him’. He further said, “That the present times are the times of our Holy Prophet and his faithful followers. The best friend of our Holy Prophet is he who, though not related to him, obeys the orders of Allah and his greatest enemy is the man who though related to him, disobeys Allah

Ma'a Salaama

محمد وآل محمد ، وأعذنا من النار ، وارزقنا الجنّة ، وزوّجنا من الحور العين ».

وروي بسند معتبر انّه : سمعنا أبا عبدالله 7 وهو يلعن في دبر كلّ مكتوبة أربعة من الرجال وأربعا من النساء : التيمي والعدوي وفعلان ومعاوية ، ويسمّيهم ، وفلانة وفلانة وهنداً وأم الحكم أخت معاوية (١).

وقد مرّت بعض التعقيبات في باب فضائل سور القرآن والآيات ، وذُكر بعضها أيضاً في باب الصلاة ، ونكتفي هنا بهذا المقدار.

( الفصل الثالث )

التعقيب المختص بفريضة الظهر

روي بسند معتبر عن أمير المؤمنين 7 ، عن رسول الله 6 ، قال : كان من دعائه عقيب صلاة الظهر :

« لا اله الاّ الله العظيم الحليم ، لا اله الاّ الله ربّ العرش الكريم ، الحمد لله رب العالمين ، اللهم انّي أسألك موجبات رحمتك ، وعزائم مغفرتك ، والغنيمة من كلّ خير ، والسلامة من كلّ اثم ، اللهم لا تدع لي ذنباً الاّ غفرته ، ولا همّاً إلاّ فرّجته ، ولا سقماً الاّ شفيته ، ولا عيباً الاّ سترته ، ولا رزقاً الاّ بسطته ، ولا خوفاً الاّ أمنته ، ولا سوء الاّ صرفته ، ولا حاجة هي لك رضى ولي صلاح الاّ قضيتها يا أرحم الراحمين ، آمين ربّ العالمين » (٢).

__________________

١ ـ البحار ٨٦ : ٥٨ ح ٦٣ باب ٦٠ ـ عن التهذيب ٢ : ٣٢١ ح ١٣١٣ ـ الكافي ٣ : ٣٤٢ ح ١٠ ـ في الوسائل ٤ : ١٠٣٧ ح ١ باب ١٩.

٢ ـ البحار ٨٦ : ٦٣ ح ٢ باب ٦١ ـ عن فلاح السائل : ١٧١.

http://www.rafed.net/booklib/view.php?type=c_fbook&b_id=113#447

3yn al Hayyat - Majlisi - Vol 2 p447

Qur'an curses openly:

Surah Al-Masad

May the hands of Abu Lahab be ruined, and ruined is he.

His wealth will not avail him or that which he gained.

He will [enter to] burn in a Fire of [blazing] flame

And his wife [as well] - the carrier of firewood.

Around her neck is a rope of [twisted] fiber.

So you're saying we're disobeying Allah and Imaams (as) by cursing openly when it's established in the Qur'an, Sunnah, and `Aimmah's (as) prayers?

This is Tawalla and Tabaraa, it is enjoined on us to speak out against evil and to disassociate from it, or else we're part of the problem.

The Qur'an tells us "And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper." (2:120)

This is true for the Bakris as well, they will not be happy with us until we become Bakri. Bakris curse each other. Shaf'i and Malik cursed Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Ibn Taymiyyah cursed the majority of the ummah! And today Salafi curse Sufi and non-Salafi as well as curse other salafi who aren't Salafi enough! While they're busy cursing and condemning billions of people to hell, we're cursing and condemning only a few! And we're only cursing and condemning in accordance with Allah's command and the Sunnah.

Look at these anti-Shi'a websites for example, you can see how they're fully aware of what our books say, and what we and our early scholars believed. The Batri taqiyyah is not fooling them, it's just making them say "You Shi'a lie we don't trust anything you say" and weaken our academic arguments due to this emotional barrier against potential falsehood.

http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/what_the_shia_believe_about_the_sahabahs.htm

Mullah Muhammed bin Yaqoob Kulaini, the most prominent Shi'ite scholar of Hadith, quotes Imam Baqir as saying:

'People became apostates after the death of the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), except for three people: Miqdad ibn Aswad, Abu Dharr Ghifari and Salmaan Farsi.' He continues:

'Abu Bakr and Omar did not repent before they parted the world. In fact, they did not even mention what they had done to Ali. So may Allah, His angels and all of mankind curse them. (Furu'ul Kafi: Kitabul Rauda: 115)

Mullah Baqir writes:

'Regarding the doctrine of' 'Tabarri' we believe that we should seek disassociation from four idols namely, Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman and Mu'awiyah; from four women namely, Ayesha, Hafsa, Hind and Ummul Hakam, along with all their associates and followers. 'These are the worst creation of Allah. It is not possible to believe in Allah, His Messenger and the Imams without disassociating oneself from their enemies. (Haqqul Yaqeen: 2:519)

[The doctrine of 'Tabarri' means to have no association with the enemies of Allah.]

Mullah Baqir writes:

'One should say after each prayer: O Allah! Curse Abu Bakr, Omar, Uthman, Mu'awiyah, Ayesha, Hafsa, Hind and Ummul Hakam. (Aynul Hayat: 599)

The Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam), came to a person from the Ansaar and asked him if he had any food. The Ansaari said he had and slaughtered a goat. The man then grilled some meat and presented it to the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) who wished that Ali, Fathima, Hasan and Hussain were present with him. Then Abu Bakr and Omar arrived. Ali also arrived shortly after. Allah then revealed the verse:

'We have never sent any messenger prophet or Muhaddath before except that when ever they desired something, the devil interfered in their desire.' (The Prophet then said) This is just as the devil has sent his two agents here right now (Abu Bakr and Omar). (The footnotes of Maqbool's translation: Surah Hajj: 674)

[Muhaddath is a non-prophet but he is inspired by Allah]

Mullah Baqir Majlisi writes:

'Pharaoh and Hamaan refer here to Abu Bakr and Omar. (Haqqul Yaqeen: 342)

The same author also says:

'The references in big books about the illegitimate birth of Omar cannot be discussed in this book. (Ibid: 259)

Allah says in Surah Nahl (90):

"And He prevents you from immorality, unlawfulness and rebellion.'

Ali ibn Ibrahim AI-Qummi comments on this verse:

'These three vices refer to so and so, so and so and so and so.' (Al Qummi's commentary: 218)

Any ambiguity is cleared by the following comment: 'Immorality refers to the first person (Abu Bakr); unlawfulness refers to the second (Omar) and rebellion refers to the third (Uthman). (Footnotes to Maqbool's translation: 522)

Mullah Baqir narrates a story from Imam Zainul Abideen that a man came to the Imam and asked him to inform him about Abu Bakr and Omar. The Imam informed him that they were both non-believers. (Haqqul Yaqeen: 551)

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(bismillah)

(salam)

I have only one comment as I will allow brother cc_30 to reply to the questions he asked. But you all claim that you are such wonderful followers of the Imam (as) and that you do everything out of love of Him (as) (I think this is your claim anyway) however, what I do not have understanding of is why you do not follow the teachings of the Imam (as)?

Imam as-Sadiq (as): Do not ever do anything that can bring reproach upon us, because surely an evil son brings reproach upon his father through his deeds. Be good followers of the one whom you have dedicated yourselves for (i.e. the Imam (as) ) and do not be a disgrace to Him. Pray in their (i.e. sunnis) tribes, visit their ill ones, attend their funerals, and do not let them beat you to any good deed because you are more worthy of it than them. [Al Kafi Volume 2 Page 217 Chapter on "Taqiyyah" Hadith 11]

Be an example of Us and do not become a shame upon Us. - Imam Ja'far As-Saadiq (as)

Imam Ali (as) said in his epistle to the governor of Egypt. He said in his letter: “`Fill up your heart with affection and kindness towards people. Do not treat them fiercely like the greedy beasts, which feel satisfied by devouring each other. Be careful not to appropriate what belongs to the others. Remember that people are of two kinds; they are either your brothers in religion or your brothers in mankind. They are usually subject to mistakes but you have to forgive their inadvertent slips, if you would like to be forgiven by God."

Imam Ali (as) cited a passage from the Holy Qur’an ‘Best liked by Abraham and nearest to him were the people who obeyed him’. He further said, “That the present times are the times of our Holy Prophet and his faithful followers. The best friend of our Holy Prophet is he who, though not related to him, obeys the orders of Allah and his greatest enemy is the man who though related to him, disobeys Allah

Ma'a Salaama

I am sorry brother but please take me seriously I am not stupid I feel very offended by this

This is under taqiyah we should do these. Why do we have Shia mosques then? I guess we should all close our mosques and attend prayer with sunnis. Even the source you quoted from proves this is taqiyah

[Al Kafi Volume 2 Page 217 Chapter on "Taqiyyah" Hadith 11]

I don't believe we are a shame I believe we are his pride and those who are quiet are a shame to him

Did you know one of the Imams once said "don't narrate a good deed of Ali or Fatima" because how bad taqiyah was? So do you accept this?

Imam Ali (as) cited a passage from the Holy Qur’an ‘Best liked by Abraham and nearest to him were the people who obeyed him’. He further said, “That the present times are the times of our Holy Prophet and his faithful followers. The best friend of our Holy Prophet is he who, though not related to him, obeys the orders of Allah and his greatest enemy is the man who though related to him, disobeys Allah

Did you know what Abraham a.s did when he seen there is no hope from his people to convert? Let the Quran remind you

[Shakir 21:51] And certainly We gave to Ibrahim his rectitude before, and We knew him fully well.

[Shakir 21:52] When he said to his father and his people: What are these images to whose worship you cleave?

[Shakir 21:53] They said: We found our fathers worshipping them.

[Shakir 21:54] He said: Certainly you have been, (both) you and your fathers, in manifest error.

[Shakir 21:55] They said: Have you brought to us the truth, or are you one of the triflers?

[Shakir 21:56] He said: Nay! your Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth, Who brought them into existence, and I am of those who bear witness to this:

[Shakir 21:57] And, by Allah! I will certainly do something against your idols after you go away, turning back.

[Shakir 21:58] So he broke them into pieces, except the chief of them, that haply they may return to it.

[Shakir 21:59] They said: Who has done this to our gods? Most surely he is one of the unjust.

[Shakir 21:60] They said: We heard a youth called Ibrahim speak of them.

[Shakir 21:61] Said they: Then bring him before the eyes of the people, perhaps they may bear witness.

[Shakir 21:62] They said: Have you done this to our gods, O Ibrahim?

[Shakir 21:63] He said: Surely (some doer) has done it; the chief of them is this, therefore ask them, if they can speak.

[Shakir 21:64] Then they turned to themselves and said: Surely you yourselves are the unjust;

[Shakir 21:65] Then they were made to hang down their heads: Certainly you know that they do not speak.

[Shakir 21:66] He said: What! do you then serve besides Allah what brings you not any benefit at all, nor does it harm you?

[Shakir 21:67] Fie on you and on what you serve besides Allah; what! do you not then understand?

As for the second hadith you quoted

his greatest enemy is the man who though related to him, disobeys Allah

What more of a sin is there than to neglect the Imams Allah made their commandments necessary for one to be a true Muslim?

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(salam)

So you're saying we're disobeying Allah and Imaams (as) by cursing openly when it's established in the Qur'an, Sunnah, and `Aimmah's (as) prayers?

This is Tawalla and Tabaraa, it is enjoined on us to speak out against evil and to disassociate from it, or else we're part of the problem.

...

Look at these anti-Shi'a websites for example, you can see how they're fully aware of what our books say, and what we and our early scholars believed. The Batri taqiyyah is not fooling them, it's just making them say "You Shi'a lie we don't trust anything you say" and weaken our academic arguments due to this emotional barrier against potential falsehood.

http://www.allaahuak...he_sahabahs.htm

Does this mean we need to add on to their knowledge of us? Of course spread our knowledge to those who accept the wilaya of 'Imaam 'Ali (as), but should it be on a medium where anyone and everyone can hear what you're saying? How do you reconcile with the following hadith?

From Shaykh al Kulayni's (ra) al Kafi, Kitaab al 'Imaan wal Kufr, Chapter 93- Taqiyyah, as graded Sahih by Allamah Majlisi (ra)

Hadith #23: Abu Ali al-Ash’ari has narrated from ‘Abd al-Jabbar from Muhammad ibn Isma'il from Ali ibn al-Nu’man from ibn Muskan from ‘Abd Allah ibn abu Ya’fur who has said the following:

“I heard abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, saying, ‘Al-Taqiyyah for a believer is a shield and protection. One who does not observe al-Taqiyyah has no belief. A servant of Allah receives a Hadith from us and on that basis he follows the religion of Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Holy. It then is an honor for him in this world and light for him in the next world. A servant receives a Hadith from us and he makes it public and it becomes humiliation for him in this world and Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Holy, removes that light from him.’”

I don't believe we are a shame I believe we are his pride and those who are quiet are a shame to him

I'm sorry; do you really believe someone dressing up as who I can only assume to be 'Umar for entertainment purposes is a pride to the 'Ahlul Bayt (as)?

Did you know one of the Imams once said "don't narrate a good deed of Ali or Fatima" because how bad taqiyah was? So do you accept this?

I mean, if the 'Imaam (as) did say this, what's wrong with accepting it?

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(salam)

Does this mean we need to add on to their knowledge of us? Of course spread our knowledge to those who accept the wilaya of 'Imaam 'Ali (as), but should it be on a medium where anyone and everyone can hear what you're saying? How do you reconcile with the following hadith?

From Shaykh al Kulayni's (ra) al Kafi, Kitaab al 'Imaan wal Kufr, Chapter 93- Taqiyyah, as graded Sahih by Allamah Majlisi (ra)

Hadith #23: Abu Ali al-Ash’ari has narrated from ‘Abd al-Jabbar from Muhammad ibn Isma'il from Ali ibn al-Nu’man from ibn Muskan from ‘Abd Allah ibn abu Ya’fur who has said the following:

“I heard abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, saying, ‘Al-Taqiyyah for a believer is a shield and protection. One who does not observe al-Taqiyyah has no belief. A servant of Allah receives a Hadith from us and on that basis he follows the religion of Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Holy. It then is an honor for him in this world and light for him in the next world. A servant receives a Hadith from us and he makes it public and it becomes humiliation for him in this world and Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Holy, removes that light from him.’”

I'm sorry; do you really believe someone dressing up as who I can only assume to be 'Umar for entertainment purposes is a pride to the 'Ahlul Bayt (as)?

I mean, if the 'Imaam (as) did say this, what's wrong with accepting it?

Yes its an act.

Well because we would have to close our mosques, stop printing our books, and not preach Shi'a Islam

Lol

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If you really think he is so stupid and fake then why is everyone making a big deal out of him yet cannot refute anything he says?

Again with the emotional attacks. A lot of people don't wear red that day, including the great reciter you posted above me. It's not wajib.

You were previously a salafi, another great example of the people drawn to to this rubbish. And Al Habib obviously does his homework and knows some stuff, but celebrations like these are small minded, pathetic, and tasteless, like his whole little cult.

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Yes its an act.

Well because we would have to close our mosques, stop printing our books, and not preach Shi'a Islam

Lol

A momin knows when to do what. It does not meanhe is to carry books to every Sunni and say look what we got in our books against you; mind you they are better aware of your religion than their own so tell do not be the one to make the ahadees a topic on streets and do not use them to debate and argue. You and i will be much better if we stop the debates with Sunnis and teach our own people first and for that YouTube and/or shiachat is not the best place when the topic is about the rubbish and drainage of the ummah.

So tell sheikh habeeb just that and what is he up to, inviting people to rise in middle east ; never expected that from him.

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I am sorry I didn't read that part here's the response but be rational

You said you want Sheikh Habib to give a lecture about Imam Mahdi receiving his Imamate? Here you go

As for your part saying supporting the Imam is better than Umar's death that's false. You can't disconnect the two because if Umar didn't take the caliphate our Imam would be Imam Mahdi a.s

Why does believing in taqleed make me ignorant?

1) I am not talking about merely giving a lecture in a studio to be aired on TV or Youtube and watched by a few people, I'm talking about him (and other Shirazis) placing this garbage about celebrating Umar's death at a higher level than discussing the Imamate of the 12th Imam. They always throw these lavish, huge parties (even here in North America) and spend thousands of dollars renting banquet halls, but are silent when it comes to openly discussing what the imamate of our 12th Imam (as) means to us right now. Also, even with his lecture, I would have to sit down and listen to it to see what he actually says..I don't have that kind of time now.

2) Celebrating Umar's death will not give the khilafa to Imam Ali (as). However, you can do something right here, right now for your 12th Imam (as) and his movement. Hence because of the intensity of its effects in comparison discussing the imamate of the 12th Imam (as) and what it means for us holds MUCH greater weight than celebrating Umar's death. You had 12 Imams who all lived after Umar's death. Did any of them host big celebrations to commemorate his death? Or is it just another innovation of the neo-Khawarij like tatbeer?

3) Please post proof that Ayatullah Subhani send him congrats. As for what you said about referring to him, you clearly do not understand taqlid. How can you refer to a faqih in "issues other than fiqh"? :wacko:

Edited by cc_30
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Instead of spending all this time and effort buying costumes and organizing gatherings like this, why don't they spend some time, like other scholars have, giving proofs about the crimes of Omar and Abu Bakr from Sunni sources. This is much more effective and doesn't have the unfortunate side effect of making some followers of Ahl Al Bayt look like clowns and giving fodder to Sunni extremists to discredit teaching of Ahl Al Bayt based on actions of a few. From what I understand of the teaching of our Imams(a.s), tabarra is thru akl and not thru costume parties.

Edited by Abu Hadi
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Abdul Wahid bin Abdullah bin Younus narrated from Muhammad bin Ja’far al-Qarashi from Muhammad bin al-Husayn bin Abul Khattab from Muhammad bin Sinan from Abu Muhammad al-Ghifari from Imam as-Sadiq from his fathers (s) that the Prophet (s) had said:

ÅíøÇßõã æÌöÏÇáó ßõáø ãóÝÊæäò ÝÅäøåõ ãáÞøä ÍõÌÊøåõ Åáì ÇäÞöÖÇÁö ãõÏøÊöå¡ ÝÅÐÇ ÇäÞóÖóÊ ãõÏøÊõåõ ÃáåóÈóÊåõ ÎóØíÆóÊõå æÃÍúÑÞóÊåõ.

“Beware of arguing with any infatuated one because he is prompted (by the Satan) to a certain period and when his period passes, his sin will burn him.”

- Biharul Anwar, vol.2 p.131,135, vol.71 p.289, Awalim al-Uloom, vol. 3 p.435

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So called 'brothers' don't act like baboons like these spastics then cry foul when the takfiris come to decapitate them.

It is erroneous to think that the Shia are killed because they send curses and throw insults on revered Sunni figures. For all history Shia have been killed for merely being Shia.

Having said that, I don't endorse this behaviour (in the video) as it is futile and lowers our standards in other people's eyes.

Edited by Marbles
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That's exactly what you asked

If Yassir cares so much about the dhulm of Ahlul-Bayt, tell me this: what did he do the day before which was the anniversary of Imam al-Hujjah (as) receiving his imamate?

The video is almost three hours. You not having time is your own problem its not an argument. As for the reason we celebrate Umar's death is because if he never took caliphate our Imam a.s would be the ruler of this world and he also killed his mother Fatima al-Zahraa a.s

That's true but we have the right to be happy. Discussing Umar ibn al-Khattab makes Shi'a understand the reasons we hate him discussing it with their sunni friends maybe even convert some. Don't bring in tatbir we will leave that for another thread although I don't believe in it religiously I believe in it as a military way to scare the enemies and to build ourselves not to be afraid of blood (please don't respond to this)

I couldn't find his real letter but here is the response letter

to-subhani.jpg

What is the problem of believing taqleed in aqaed is wajib?

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There is so much ignorance in this thread I don't know where to begin.

Firstly, to denounce this gathering due to "time wasting" or "money wasting", this is the Eid al Shuja' which is the celebration after our mourning, all scholars celebrate the death of Umar on this death, but many do it privately. These gatherings have taken place for a thousand years in Shi'a villages and towns, it's not something Yasser al Habib invented.

The ahadith about taqiyyah are at certain times for certain people under certain circumstances, they're not hukm over the entire Shi'a forever.

Check out this article http://wilayat.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=827:The-Rijal-Syndrome-The-Problem-of-Neo-[Edited Out]es,-Bakris-and-Nawasib-%28Part-1%29&catid=54:featured-articles

Al-Kulayni, the grand Shiite hadithist, records:

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from Muhammad ibn Sinan from Nasr al-Kath‘ami who has said the following. "Abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) has said, ‘Those who know that we say nothing but the truth what they know from us should consider it sufficient. If they would hear from us what is different from what they already know from us they should note that it is our way of defending them.’"

Al-Kafi, Book on Virtue of Knowledge, H 193, Ch. 21, h 6

There are bound to be some contradictions as a result. Thus, the Shiite Imams (as) resolve the conflict for their followers. Al-Kulayni again:

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Husayn from Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from Safwan ibn Yahya from Dawud ibn al-Husayn from ‘Umar ibn Hanzala who has said the following.

"I asked Imam abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) about the two people with a dispute between them on the issue of debts or inheritance and they go to the king or the judges for a decision is it permissible to seek such decisions?" The Imam replied, "Whoever would go to them for a judgement in a right or wrongful matter it is like seeking the judgment of the devil. Anything received through such judgment would like consuming filth even if it would one’s established right. It is because of receiving through the judgment of the devil and Allah has commanded to reject the devil, "yet choose to take their affairs to Satan for judgment even though they are commanded to deny him. Satan wants to lead them far away from the right path. (4:60)"

I said, "What should then they do?" The Imam replied, "They must look for one among you who have narrated our Hadith and have studied what is lawful and unlawful in our teachings and have learned our laws they must agree to settle their dispute according to his judgment because I have made him over you a ruler. When he may judge according to our commands and then it is not accepted from him the dissenting this judgment has ignored the commands of Allah and it is rejection of us. Rejecting us is rejecting Allah and that is up to the level of paganism and considering things equal to Allah."

I said, "What if each one of such disputing parties would chose a man from among our people and agree to accept their judgment but these two man would come up with different judgments and they would have differences in your Hadith?"

The Imam replied, "The judgment will be the judgment of the one who has a more just, having more better understanding of the law, Fiqh, the more truthful in Hadith and the more pious of the two. The judgment of the other one will be disregarded."

I said, "What if both (of such judges) would be just and accepted among our people and none of them would have been any preference over the other?"

The Imam replied, "One must consider and study the hadith that each one of them would narrate from us as to WHICH HAS RECEIVED THE ACCEPTANCE OF ALL OF YOUR PEOPLE. Such Hadith must be followed and the one, which rarely accepted AND IS NOT POPULAR IN YOUR PEOPLE, must be disregarded because THE ONE POPULARLY ACCEPTED IS FREE OF DOUBTS. The nature of cases are of three kinds:

(a) A case that is a well-known and true to follow.

(B) A case that is well known to be false to stay away from.

© And a confusing case the knowledge of which must be left to Allah and His Prophet for an answer.

The holy Prophet has said, ‘There is the clearly lawful and the clearly unlawful and the confusing cases. One who stays away from the confusing ones he has protected himself against the unlawful ones. Those who follow the confusing matters they indulge in unlawful matters and will be destroyed unexpectedly."

I said, "What if both Hadith from you would be popular and narrated by the trustworthy people from you?"

The Imam replied, "One must study to find out which one agrees with the laws of the Quran and the Sunnah AND IT DOES NOT AGREE WITH THE LAWS OF THE THOSE WHO OPPOSE US. Such Hadith must be accepted and the one that disagree with the laws of the Quran and the Sunnah AND COINCIDES THE MASSES MUST BE DISREGARDED."

I said, "May Allah take my soul in the service of your cause, What if both Faqih, scholars of the law would have deduced and learned their judgment from the book and the Sunnah and found that one of the Hadith agrees with the masses and the other disagrees with the masses which one must be followed?"

The Imam replied, "THE ONE WHICH DISAGREES WITH THE MASSES MUST BE FOLLOWED BECAUSE IN IT THERE IS GUIDANCE."

I said, "May Allah take my soul in the service of your cause, what if both Hadith would agree with the masses?"

The Imam replied, "One must study to find out of the two the one that is more agreeable to their rulers and judges must be disregarded and the other must be followed."

I said, "What if both Hadith would agree with their rulers?"

The Imam replied, "If such would be the case it must be suspended until you meet your Imam. Restraint in confusing cases is better than indulging in destruction."

Al-Kafi, Book on Virtue of Knowledge, H 196, Ch. 21, h 9

There is la'nat throughout our riwayah, tabaraa is part of our creed.

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And about celebrating the death of Umar on 9th Rabbi al-Awwal (Eid al Shuja') refer to Bihar al Anwar, book 31:

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ÞóÇáó ÍõÐóíúÝóÉõ: Ëõãøó ÞóÇãó ÑóÓõæáõ Çááøóåö Õóáøóì Çááøóåõ Úóáóíúåö æó Âáöåö ÝóÏóÎóáó Åöáóì ÈóíúÊö Ãõãøö ÓóáóãóÉó¡ æó ÑóÌóÚúÊõ Úóäúåõ æó ÃóäóÇ ÛóíúÑõ ÔóÇßøò Ýöí ÃóãúÑö ÇáÔøóíúÎö¡ ÍóÊøóì ÊóÑóÃøóÓó ÈóÚúÏó æóÝóÇÉö ÇáäøóÈöíøö

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ÝóÇÓúÊóÌóÇÈó Çááøóåõ ÏõÚóÇÁó ãóæúáóÇÊöí ÚóáóíúåóÇ ÇáÓøóáóÇãõ Úóáóì Ðóáößó ÇáúãõäóÇÝöÞö¡ æó ÃóÌúÑóì ÞóÊúáóåõ Úóáóì íóÏö ÞóÇÊöáöåö ÑóÍúãóÉõ Çááøóåö Úóáóíúåö¡ ÝóÏóÎóáúÊõ Úóáóì ÃóãöíÑö ÇáúãõÄúãöäöíäó Úóáóíúåö ÇáÓøóáóÇãõ áöÃõåóäøöÆóåõ ÈöÞóÊúáö ÇáúãõäóÇÝöÞö æó ÑõÌõæÚöåö Åöáóì ÏóÇÑö ÇáöÇäúÊöÞóÇãö.

ÞóÇáó ÃóãöíÑõ ÇáúãõÄúãöäöíäó Úóáóíúåö ÇáÓøóáóÇãõ: íóÇ ÍõÐóíúÝóÉõ! Ãó ÊóÐúßõÑõ Çáúíóæúãó ÇáøóÐöí ÏóÎóáúÊó Ýöíåö Úóáóì ÓóíøöÏöí ÑóÓõæáö Çááøóåö Õóáøóì Çááøóåõ Úóáóíúåö æó Âáöåö æó ÃóäóÇ æó ÓöÈúØóÇåõ äóÃúßõáõ ãóÚóåõ¡ ÝóÏóáøóßó Úóáóì ÝóÖúáö Ðóáößó Çáúíóæúãö ÇáøóÐöí ÏóÎóáúÊó Úóáóíúåö Ýöíåö¿. ÞõáúÊõ: Èóáóì íóÇ ÃóÎóÇ ÑóÓõæáö Çááøóåö (Õ).

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æó íóæúãõ ÇáÒøöíóÇÑóÉö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÞóÊúáö ÇáúãõäóÇÝöÞö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáúæóÞúÊö ÇáúãóÚúáõæãö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÓõÑõæÑö Ãóåúáö ÇáúÈóíúÊö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáÔøóÇåöÏö æó íóæúãõ ÇáúãóÔúåõæÏö¡ æó íóæúãó íóÚóÖøõ ÇáÙøóÇáöãõ Úóáì‏ íóÏóíúåö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáúÞóåúÑö Úóáóì ÇáúÚóÏõæøö¡ æó íóæúãõ åóÏúãö ÇáÖøóáóÇáóÉö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáÊøóäúÈöíåö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáÊøóÕúÑöíÏö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáÔøóåóÇÏóÉö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáÊøóÌóÇæõÒö Úóäö ÇáúãõÄúãöäöíäó¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáÒøóåúÑóÉö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáúÚõÐõæÈóÉö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáúãõÓúÊóØóÇÈö Èöåö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÐóåóÇÈö ÓõáúØóÇäö ÇáúãõäóÇÝöÞö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáÊøóÓúÏöíÏö¡ æó íóæúãñ íóÓúÊóÑöíÍõ Ýöíåö ÇáúãõÄúãöäõ¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáúãõÈóÇåóáóÉö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáúãõÝóÇÎóÑóÉö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÞóÈõæáö ÇáúÃóÚúãóÇáö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáÊøóÈúÌöíáö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÅöÐóÇÚóÉö ÇáÓøöÑøö¡ æó íóæúãõ äóÕúÑö ÇáúãóÙúáõæãö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáÒøöíóÇÑóÉö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáÊøóæóÏøõÏö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáÊøóÍóÈøõÈö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáúæõÕõæáö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáÊøóÒúßöíóÉö æó íóæúãõ ßóÔúÝö ÇáúÈöÏóÚö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáÒøõåúÏö Ýöí

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ÇáúßóÈóÇÆöÑö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáÊøóÒóÇæõÑö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáúãóæúÚöÙóÉö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáúÚöÈóÇÏóÉö¡ æó íóæúãõ ÇáöÇÓúÊöÓúáóÇãö ÞóÇáó ÍõÐóíúÝóÉõ: ÝóÞõãúÊõ ãöäú ÚöäúÏöåö íóÚúäöí ÃóãöíÑó ÇáúãõÄúãöäöíäó Úóáóíúåö ÇáÓøóáóÇãõ æó ÞõáúÊõ Ýöí äóÝúÓöí: áóæú áóãú ÃõÏúÑößú ãöäú ÃóÝúÚóÇáö ÇáúÎóíúÑö æó ãóÇ ÃóÑúÌõæ Èöåö ÇáËøóæóÇÈó ÅöáøóÇ ÝóÖúáó åóÐóÇ Çáúíóæúãö áóßóÇäó ãõäóÇíó.

ÞóÇáó ãõÍóãøóÏõ Èúäõ ÇáúÚóáóÇÁö ÇáúåóãúÏóÇäöíøõ¡ æó íóÍúíóì Èúäõ ãõÍóãøóÏö Èúäö ÌóÑöíÍò: ÝóÞóÇãó ßõáøõ æóÇÍöÏò ãöäøóÇ æó ÞóÈøóáó ÑóÃúÓó ÃóÍúãóÏó Èúäö ÅöÓúÍóÇÞó Èúäö ÓóÚöíÏò ÇáúÞõãøöíøö¡ æó ÞõáúäóÇ: ÇáúÍóãúÏõ áöáøóåö ÇáøóÐöí ÞóíøóÖóßó áóäóÇ ÍóÊøóì ÔóÑøóÝúÊóäóÇ ÈöÝóÖúáö åóÐóÇ Çáúíóæúãö¡ æó ÑóÌóÚúäóÇ Úóäúåõ¡ æó ÊóÚóíøóÏúäóÇ Ýöí Ðóáößó Çáúíóæúãö.

ÞÇá ÇáÓíøÏ: äÞáÊå ãä ÎØø ãÍãÏ Èä Úáí Èä ãÍãÏ Èä Øíø ÑÍãå Çááøå¡ æ æÌÏäÇ ÝíãÇ ÊÕÝøÍäÇ ãä ÇáßÊÈ ÚÏøÉ ÑæÇíÇÊ ãæÇÝÞÉ áåÇ ÝÇÚÊãÏäÇ ÚáíåÇ¡ ÝíäÈÛí ÊÚÙíã åÐÇ Çáíæã ÇáãÔÇÑ Åáíå æ ÅÙåÇÑ ÇáÓÑæÑ Ýíå.

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ÈíÇä:

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:lol:

At least you admit to doing it I suppose.

How can you refer to a faqih in "issues other than fiqh"? :wacko:

Also, to point out, you ONLY follow a marjaa in fiqh, this shows your ignorance of Islam in general, there is no taqleed in aqaid.

Please you three instead of making fun of me for believing taqleed in aqaed is wajib and calling me ignorant at least prove me wrong

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Please you three instead of making fun of me for believing taqleed in aqaed is wajib and calling me ignorant at least prove me wrong

I'm not making fun of you. I don't believe in taqleed of any form. What I found funny was that usually you hear usoolis deny they do taqleed in `aqa'id, so it's refreshing to see someone just admit it, and ask what the problem is. I look forward to reading the responses you get.

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BillyJo-I never said anything about doing taqlid in aqeeda. Your words were:

I follow Ayatollah Sobhani on everything else other than fiqh

But what you referred to was a fiqh issue. Holding a gathering to commemorate the death of Umar is an action, and the status of an action is determined by fiqh, not aqeeda. It is either wajib/mustahab/mubah/makruh/haram for one to hold that gathering. It seemed as if you were saying you refer to Shaykh Subhani for this issue, and my point was that it is not a non-fiqh issue as you stated.

And for the Shaykh Subhani letter you posted, a) it is too small for me to read and B) my Arabic is still a work in progress so it will be better if some of the other brothers can look at it instead of myself

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Please you three instead of making fun of me for believing taqleed in aqaed is wajib and calling me ignorant at least prove me wrong

I did not make fun of you I stated fact. It was a statement of fact. And why to prove anything to you? You know everything.

Imam Muhammad Baqir (as) said: “The worth of every man is his marifat.”

[ 33387 ] 6 ـ وعن محمد بن يحيى ، عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى ، عن الحسن بن أيوب ، عن أبي عقيلة الصيرفي ، عن كرام ، عن أبي حمزة الثمالي ، قال : قال أبو عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) : إياك والرياسة ، وإياك أن تطأ أعقاب الرجال ، قلت : جعلت فداك ، أما الرياسة فقد عرفتها ، وأما أن أطأأعقاب الرجال فما ثلثا ما في يدي إلا مما وطئت أعقاب الرجال ، فقال لي : ليس حيث تذهب ، إياك أن تنصب رجلا دون الحجة ، فتصدقه في كل ما قال .

6 – And from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa from al-Hasan b. Ayyub from Abu `Aqila as-Sayrafi from Karram from Abu Hamza ath-Thumali. He said: Abu `Abdillah (as) said: Beware you of leadership, and beware you of treading upon the heels of men (an expression meaning to follow someone in submission to their command). I said: May I be made your ransom, as to leadership then we have known it, but as to treading upon the heels of men, then there is not a third of what is my hand but from what I have trodden upon the heels of men. So he said to me: It is not where you are going (i.e. not what you think), beware you that you appoint a man apart from the Hujja, and you believe him in everything he says.

http://www.rafed.net...ael-27/v07.html

Secondly as to la'an, did it ever occur to you to wonder to you people why it is fulan and fulan in ahadith? 90% of our religion men, 90%

Edited by thenamelessone
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The ahadith about taqiyyah are at certain times for certain people under certain circumstances, they're not hukm over the entire Shi'a forever.

From Shaykh Saduq's (ra) Kamaaluddin wa Tamaamun Ni’ma, Chapter 35, Hadith 5;

Narrated to us Ahmad bin Ziyad bin Ja’far Hamadani (r.a.): Narrated to us Ali bin Ibrahim bin Hashim from his father from Ali bin Mabad from Husain bin Khalid that: Ali bin Musa ar-Reza said:

“One who does not have piety does not have religion and whosoever does not have dissimulation (Taqayyah) does not have faith and indeed the most honored among you near Allah is the one most pious of you. His Eminence was asked: Till when does he have to observe Taqayyah? He replied: Till the day of the appointed hour and on that day is the reappearance of our (Ahle Bayt’s) Qaim. Thus whosoever abandons Taqayyah before his reappearance is not from us. It was asked: O son of Allah’s Messenger, from which of Ahle Bayt is the Qaim? He replied: He is my fourth descendant, the son of the best of the maidservants. The Almighty Allah would, through him, purify the earth from every kind of oppression and remove every type of injustice from it. He is the one in whose birth the people would doubt and he is the one who would have an occultation before his reappearance. And when he arises, the earth shall be lit up with his effulgence. He would establish the scales of justice among the people so that no one may oppress the other. He is the one for whom the earth would warp itself and he would not throw a shadow. And he is the one by whose name the caller would call out from the sky inviting people to the Imam which all the people of the earth would be able to hear. The caller would say: Know that the Proof of Allah has appeared near the House of Allah, so follow him as truth is with him, and that is the meaning of the statement of the Almighty Allah: “If We please, We should send down upon them a sign from the heaven so that their necks should stoop to it.” (Shuara 26:4)

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BillyJo-I never said anything about doing taqlid in aqeeda. Your words were:

But what you referred to was a fiqh issue. Holding a gathering to commemorate the death of Umar is an action, and the status of an action is determined by fiqh, not aqeeda. It is either wajib/mustahab/mubah/makruh/haram for one to hold that gathering. It seemed as if you were saying you refer to Shaykh Subhani for this issue, and my point was that it is not a non-fiqh issue as you stated.

And for the Shaykh Subhani letter you posted, a) it is too small for me to read and B) my Arabic is still a work in progress so it will be better if some of the other brothers can look at it instead of myself

Sorry about that I meant I seek Ayatollah Sobhani for issues that don't have to deal with fiqh and I don't consider this a fiqh issue but even if it was we are allowed to look at other opinions

I'm too lazy to translate it so hopefully someone will instead

I did not make fun of you I stated fact. It was a statement of fact. And why to prove anything to you? You know everything.

Imam Muhammad Baqir (as) said: “The worth of every man is his marifat.”

[ 33387 ] 6 ـ وعن محمد بن يحيى ، عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى ، عن الحسن بن أيوب ، عن أبي عقيلة الصيرفي ، عن كرام ، عن أبي حمزة الثمالي ، قال : قال أبو عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) : إياك والرياسة ، وإياك أن تطأ أعقاب الرجال ، قلت : جعلت فداك ، أما الرياسة فقد عرفتها ، وأما أن أطأأعقاب الرجال فما ثلثا ما في يدي إلا مما وطئت أعقاب الرجال ، فقال لي : ليس حيث تذهب ، إياك أن تنصب رجلا دون الحجة ، فتصدقه في كل ما قال .

6 – And from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa from al-Hasan b. Ayyub from Abu `Aqila as-Sayrafi from Karram from Abu Hamza ath-Thumali. He said: Abu `Abdillah (as) said: Beware you of leadership, and beware you of treading upon the heels of men (an expression meaning to follow someone in submission to their command). I said: May I be made your ransom, as to leadership then we have known it, but as to treading upon the heels of men, then there is not a third of what is my hand but from what I have trodden upon the heels of men. So he said to me: It is not where you are going (i.e. not what you think), beware you that you appoint a man apart from the Hujja, and you believe him in everything he says.

http://www.rafed.net...ael-27/v07.html

Secondly as to la'an, did it ever occur to you to wonder to you people why it is fulan and fulan in ahadith? 90% of our religion men, 90%

Okay now here is something shocking, Ayatollah Kamal Haydari and some Ayatollahs said it is wajib to do taqleed in aqaid and the proof is clear

1) When you ask an Ayatollah about a belief issue its because you are following

2) When you say one of the main beliefs of Shia is wrong like ismah you aren't Shia no more so how is there taqleed on that?

I've learnt a lot from sheikh Yassir's lectures and khutbas. I find them very interesting and informative. however like most of you on here I also find this celebrations to be absolutely disgusting and very upsetting. I wouldn't go near those places to be quite honest. I sent him a question regarding these acts on his website but received no reply. I can not imagine my prophet or the imams being in that crowd or cut a cake with ''aisha is in hell'' written on it in a party. his style of doing la3na is also disturbing, mentioning la3na after every name. I've never seen anyone does la3na the way he does. the quran is full of mentioning the names of the enemies of Allah but not once does it ever say after mentioning the name ( curse be on he/her), so why are we doing it.

@ Dawud-Meqdad and Shi3i your argument defending this acts is silly. how can this by any means be acceptable by Allah and the prophet? don't try and bring me ahadith or ayat, ive read ur posts above. it makes no sense to me.

I replied above go back to see my earlier replies the only thing that's disgusting is acting like the day when Umar went to hell is like every other day

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Do you have a source for that?

Sheikh Ansari and Ayatollah Haydari along with others say taqleed in aqaed is wajib I don't have a source but this is too famous about them search it and you will find it inshella

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Doesn't the same Quran tell you guys not to even curse at peoples fake God's? I mean you are good at giving examples of la'an present in Quran but obviously ignore the other ayats that doesn't serve your purpose.

It depends on the situation. Remember how Abraham a.s broke the gods of the disbelievers?

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Sheikh Ansari and Ayatollah Haydari along with others say taqleed in aqaed is wajib I don't have a source but this is too famous about them search it and you will find it inshella

I want a direct quote from an official fatwa and source that says those words, ie: taqleed in matters of aqeeda is wajib, thank you for your time to find it, pm me me please when you find it.

AFTER EDIT:

this must be specific, it cannot say this;

"taqlid literally means "to follow (someone)", "to imitate". In Islamic legal terminology
it means to follow a mujtahid in religious laws and commandment
as he has derived them. A mujtahid is a person who is an
expert of Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh)
; he is also called a faqih. "

It MUST say taqleed in aqeeda in specific, and still I thank you for your time.

Edited by thenamelessone
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I've learnt a lot from sheikh Yassir's lectures and khutbas. I find them very interesting and informative. however like most of you on here I also find this celebrations to be absolutely disgusting and very upsetting. I wouldn't go near those places to be quite honest. I sent him a question regarding these acts on his website but received no reply. I can not imagine my prophet or the imams being in that crowd or cut a cake with ''aisha is in hell'' written on it in a party. his style of doing la3na is also disturbing, mentioning la3na after every name. I've never seen anyone does la3na the way he does. the quran is full of mentioning the names of the enemies of Allah but not once does it ever say after mentioning the name ( curse be on he/her), so why are we doing it.

@ Dawud-Meqdad and Shi3i your argument defending this acts is silly. how can this by any means be acceptable by Allah and the prophet? don't try and bring me ahadith or ayat, ive read ur posts above. it makes no sense to me.

agreed

habib is obviously well read and if it wasn't for the small minded, pathetic things like this, i'd be more interested in listening to him.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Ma'a Salaama Billy-Jo if you read this and thank you. There is a hadith, and I am sorry I never could find it that speaks of ghuluw and muqassir, and how we as shia have to find that middle path. This is a true hadith, there is balance in all things, when you examine the realities this religion, balance permeates throughout. When we find ourselves throwing out one teaching in favor of another, we are not walking the balance, therefore not practicing the religion of Allah. Oddly what you taught me, I have to go pray shukr for, because writing to this I now know what these last years of my life were about. And I have never been more thankful. I pray you find the balance someday, and feel like I do right now. Walk with the Ones (as) Allah loves, may your path someday become easier, may Allah increase you in knowledge and piety.

Ali

Edited by thenamelessone
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From Shaykh Saduq's (ra) Kamaaluddin wa Tamaamun Ni’ma, Chapter 35, Hadith 5;

Narrated to us Ahmad bin Ziyad bin Ja’far Hamadani (r.a.): Narrated to us Ali bin Ibrahim bin Hashim from his father from Ali bin Mabad from Husain bin Khalid that: Ali bin Musa ar-Reza said:

“One who does not have piety does not have religion and whosoever does not have dissimulation (Taqayyah) does not have faith and indeed the most honored among you near Allah is the one most pious of you. His Eminence was asked: Till when does he have to observe Taqayyah? He replied: Till the day of the appointed hour and on that day is the reappearance of our (Ahle Bayt’s) Qaim. Thus whosoever abandons Taqayyah before his reappearance is not from us. It was asked: O son of Allah’s Messenger, from which of Ahle Bayt is the Qaim? He replied: He is my fourth descendant, the son of the best of the maidservants. The Almighty Allah would, through him, purify the earth from every kind of oppression and remove every type of injustice from it. He is the one in whose birth the people would doubt and he is the one who would have an occultation before his reappearance. And when he arises, the earth shall be lit up with his effulgence. He would establish the scales of justice among the people so that no one may oppress the other. He is the one for whom the earth would warp itself and he would not throw a shadow. And he is the one by whose name the caller would call out from the sky inviting people to the Imam which all the people of the earth would be able to hear. The caller would say: Know that the Proof of Allah has appeared near the House of Allah, so follow him as truth is with him, and that is the meaning of the statement of the Almighty Allah: “If We please, We should send down upon them a sign from the heaven so that their necks should stoop to it.” (Shuara 26:4)

That hadith is mistranslated and misunderstood.

The proper understanding is as follows:

"One who does not have piety (as part of their beliefs) does not have religion and whosoever does not have dissimulation (Taqayyah) (as part of their beliefs) does not have faith"

In other words, the hadith is saying that Taqiyyah is a part of the religion, if you say it is not part of the religion then you are denying a fact of your faith and therefore don't have faith.

This hadith is not saying "whoever doesn't use taqiyyah 100% has no faith", nor is it saying anything similar to what many may claim. It is saying very simply, "taqiyyah is part of your religion, use it when and how you please, but do not say it is not part of the religion"

I've learnt a lot from sheikh Yassir's lectures and khutbas. I find them very interesting and informative. however like most of you on here I also find this celebrations to be absolutely disgusting and very upsetting. I wouldn't go near those places to be quite honest. I sent him a question regarding these acts on his website but received no reply. I can not imagine my prophet or the imams being in that crowd or cut a cake with ''aisha is in hell'' written on it in a party. his style of doing la3na is also disturbing, mentioning la3na after every name. I've never seen anyone does la3na the way he does. the quran is full of mentioning the names of the enemies of Allah but not once does it ever say after mentioning the name ( curse be on he/her), so why are we doing it.

@ Dawud-Meqdad and Shi3i your argument defending this acts is silly. how can this by any means be acceptable by Allah and the prophet? don't try and bring me ahadith or ayat, ive read ur posts above. it makes no sense to me.

Throwing stones at Shaytan on Hajj is very offensive, the non-Muslims ridicule us for throwing stones...

That is Tabaraa.

Surah al-Masad curses Abu Lahab (la) and his wife (la), and is very offensive...

That is Tabaraa.

Some say Abu Bakr is mentioned as the one in the cave in Surah Tawbah (repentance) also known as Surah Bara'a (root for Tabaraa)... the only Surah without Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem in the beginning. This is very offensive to be mentioned in this surah in a bad light!

That is Tabaraa.

Surah At-Tahrim condemns Aisha, Hafsa, and the wife of Lut (as) and the wife of Nuh (as)... the surah is very offensive to those four!

That is Tabaraa.

Surah Abasa ... "He Frowned" is exposing Uthman who frowned, it's exposing his bad manners and speaking about them publicly...

That is Tabaraa.

Muhammad ibn Ishaq

Khalid's expedition after the conquest of Makkah to the B. Jadhima of Kinana and Ali's expedition to repair Khalid's error.

Hakim told me that the Apostle summoned Ali and told him to go to these people and look into the affair, and abolish the practices of the pagan era. So Ali went to them with the money the Apostle had sent and paid the bloodwit and made good their monetary loss. When all blood and property had been paid for he still had some money left over. He asked if any compensation was still due and when they said it was not, he gave them the rest of the money on behalf of the Apostle. Then he returned and reported to the Apostle what he had done and he commended him. Then the Apostle arose and facing the Qibla, raised his arms, and said: O God! I am innocent before Thee of what Khalid has done. This he did thrice.

pg. 107 A Restatement of the History of Islam by Sayed Ali Asgher Razwy

That is Tabaraa.

When Aisha fought against Ali (as) and her carriage on top of the camel was flooded with arrows so that it looked like a porccupine... a physical bara'a where everyone actively fought her and sought to kill her and her supporters.

That was Tabaraa.

When Fatima Zahra (as) told Abu Bakr to his face, she will curse him and Umar in every prayer...

That was Tabaraa.

When Imaam Hussain (as) marched against Yazeed (la) even though it meant his death and the death of his Sahabah and family...

That was Tabaraa.

There are too many examples to name them all, but after knowing all of the above offensive words and actions, how can one get upset when someone reads poetry or reads from ahadith or eats cake as a form of Tabaraa. At least we're doing Tabaraa, whereas if it were left to you, the rest of the world would think that Bakris are true Islam and Abu Bakr was the best example, and Islam spread by the sword, and this is all what Muslims believe. You abandon Tabaraa and then everyone spits on Islam because they don't realize that the evil personalities who non-Muslims attack are actually frauds and are condemned by the real Muslims, because nobody is condemning them!

Edited by Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki
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