Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
3laweyaZainabiya

Virginity

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

(salam) brothers and sisters,

I was having a discussion with my Christian friend and she asked me what the islamic definition for a virgin is. I was wondering what your answers would be...

If you guys can get a Hadith to back up your answer that would be awesome.

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

technically, someone who hasn't had vaginal intercourse

That's technical. But I guess they wanted Islamic definition which means, no anal, oral, intercourse, and a good virgin is also expected not to have touched or kissed another man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam) brothers and sisters,

I was having a discussion with my Christian friend and she asked me what the islamic definition for a virgin is. I was wondering what your answers would be...

If you guys can get a Hadith to back up your answer that would be awesome.

Thanks!

A virgin from the Islamic veiw is a woman who had sex whether its anal or vaginal but the ruling of a woman who had done it outside marriage is considered a virgin when it comes to fiqh for example a virgin needs her fathers permission for marriage while a non-virgin doesn't need it but if the girl lost her virginity in a haram why she is still considered as a virgin

This is the right answer I have searched it

Salam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A virgin from the Islamic veiw is a woman who had sex whether its anal or vaginal but the ruling of a woman who had done it outside marriage is considered a virgin when it comes to fiqh for example a virgin needs her fathers permission for marriage while a non-virgin doesn't need it but if the girl lost her virginity in a haram why she is still considered as a virgin

This is the right answer I have searched it

Salam

She is not considered virgin. Only the rules of a virgin apply in that case.

Edited by Marbles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's technical. But I guess they wanted Islamic definition which means, no anal, oral, intercourse, and a good virgin is also expected not to have touched or kissed another man.

It's still the same. Virginity is not lost by anything other than that.

When Islamic fiqh talks about virgins, it is referring to females who have not had sexual intercourse.

Edited by Marbles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So girls have this inviolable "virginity" until they are married and then loose it thereafter.

Men should stop worrying about it. Their wives are always going to be "virgins" till they marry them. :lol:

Edited by Marbles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its Aya. Sistani's fatwa. Still trying to find it though. If anyone else has it handy, please post it

No worries. I know the fiqh position on it.

I am trying to point out the difference between being virgin, in literal sense, and being deemed virgin for the purpose of fiqh.

Edited by Marbles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I knew the technical definition.

I was actually looking for a more Islamic point of view which I have gotten :) thanks guys

Hey another random question, should a womans virginity be dependent on her hymen?

Here is a thread destined with a 12 page life lol

I'm touched that you think one of my threads could be such a success :') Lol

Edited by 3laweyaZainabiya

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its Aya. Sistani's fatwa. Still trying to find it though. If anyone else has it handy, please post it

That's what I meant brother when I said "when it comes to fiqh" :)

She is not considered virgin. Only the rules of a virgin apply in that case.

I think Marbles is 100% correct.

Awaiting_for_the12th and BillyJo, your phrasings don't really work.

If a girl (or a guy) has sex outside of marriage, she obviously is no longer a virgin. But yes, according to fiqh, she still has to abide by the rules that apply to virgins... but she obviously is no longer a virgin (even according to fiqh, I would say... I mean yes, the the "virgin rules" apply, but it doesn't mean such people are actually virgins Islamically... I would say they simply happen to be non-virgins for whom the rules of a vigin still apply).

But that is really just an issue of semantics and I think we all agree anyway... but just in case some people read some of these posts and mistakenly then think "Hey, I can do stuff and then still be a virgin Islamically", I decided to finally make my first post :)

Personally, I basically agree with what ShiaBen wrote... a virgin is somewho who has refrained from the "3 types" of sex. Regarding kissing and doing other stuff, I think I consider that to cause (both a guy or a girl) to no longer be chaste, but not causing them to lose their virginity (although obviously both guys and girls should not do any of that outside of marriage).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, Regarding kissing I think I consider that to cause (both a guy or a girl) to no longer be chaste, but not causing them to lose their virginity (although obviously both guys and girls should not do any of that outside of marriage).

True. Virginity is just one of the signs of chastity. Islam gives more importance to chastity than viginity so even If someone kissed or touched non mahram, they can still be ''virgin'' but they're no longer a chaste person.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As with many other examples outlined on the forum already, this is just another one in respect to issues with english to arabic translation, e.g. a recent thread outlined that the english word "representative" has various equivalents in arabic (wakeel / na'ib / mumathal) which have very different meanings in arabic.

In this case, the fiqh ruling has no relativity to the physical aspect of virginity, whereas the english understanding of the word clearly does. So here is another clear case where the english word has several, yet very different meanings in Arabic.

Therefore a fiqh ruling won't reverse virginity (western general understanding of its definition), nor will some operation, in fact the only way is to reverse time itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I like this thread.

I'm kind of happy that some Christian guy/gal asked about it.

So they can get an idea of virginity is in Islam (the 3 sexes) as well as the importance of chastity which is still very important within Islam.

Culture to culture, religion to religion, society to society, these concepts are probably viewed differently, but at least outsiders would get an idea of what to expect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I like this thread.

I'm kind of happy that some Christian guy/gal asked about it.

So they can get an idea of virginity is in Islam (the 3 sexes) as well as the importance of chastity which is still very important within Islam.

Culture to culture, religion to religion, society to society, these concepts are probably viewed differently, but at least outsiders would get an idea of what to expect.

I, also, am quite happy with this thread.

I got very informative answers that made sense, not only to me, but also to my friend. She and i appreciate your responses. Thank you all :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a true virgin is a person who is unaware of the opposite sex mentally, spiritually and physically

the best woman is the one who has not seen men and not let men see her

I guess that means there are no true virgins in this world...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess that means there are no true virgins in this world...

Haha! Silly you! Of course there are! I'm sure there are women out there locked up in a cell away from any men at all (be they nonmahrams or mahrams) until they get married.

We just happen to be the deviant majority. We let men see us. We are aware that men exist in this world. It's sad really...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha! Silly you! Of course there are! I'm sure there are women out there locked up in a cell away from any men at all (be they nonmahrams or mahrams) until they get married.

hmm..I think Zameena meant nonmahrams..or so I understood the comment, no??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a true virgin is a person who is unaware of the opposite sex mentally, spiritually and physically

the best woman is the one who has not seen men and not let men see her

If you only knew what would happen... - no, what would NOT happen - to that person and their body due to the lack of different hormones and stimuli, if (s)he was so unaware of the opposite sex, you would be crying. If a guy would marry a girl like that, even a stone would be more feminine. (Dear brothers, now don't go marry a stone)

It's within all living things' nature to be aware of and getting attracted by, the opposite sex, as it's essential to reproduce and etc etc, remove that and you would have... well it could go totally wrong and you would have homosexuality....

Edited by EnterMessage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ i m sorry i dont understand what u r saying... could you explain more?

the brother/sister is using biology here. It's impossible for a boy/girl to be unaware of the opposite sex. We basically are animals, we were created to survive and reproduce. Kids start noticing the opposite sex at around 8 but don't understand and become attracted to it until they hit puberty. Allah put this attraction to the opposite sex in us in order for us to reproduce.

I'm not sure what the brother/sister meant by the homosexuality part but I can only assume that he/she meant that if we didn't have this attraction towards the opposite sex then we would be attracted to the same sex... Which I don't think I agree with. I don't quite understand either lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a cultural definition and an Islamic definition.

The Islamic definition is one who has 'haya' (loosely translated as modesty) and has not done fusukh (done actions outside of those allowed by Allah(s.w.a)) in relation to the opposite sex/gender. So according to Islamic definition, a women who goes out in public dressed in a way that attracts men is not a virgin (because she has no haya) even though a man has never touched her, and a women who has had intercourse with 10s of different men but was married to all of them according to the Islamic requirements for marriage (either permenant or temporary) is still a virgin in the Islamic definition. Some might be confused by this but I am using 'virgin' in the general Quranic sense which is a pointer to purity of the individual and obedience to Allah(s.w.a) and not in the physical sense.

The problem with using the term 'virgin' in English and many other languages is that it implies some sort of irreversible physical characteristic but mixed in with that is other cultural and religious aspects. That is the cultural definition, which to me is meaningless since the meaning is not well defined anyway and is different from community to community. If you want to rely on cultural definitions, then you must go into physical acts. Some people say that if you have done this or that physical act then you are not a virgin and some say you are but 'which' physical acts are not agreed upon, as you can see from this thread. The only common thing between them is that if you have vaginal intercourse you are no longer a virgin according to cultural definition, and even that is not really agreed upon anymore because it is now possible for a women to do surgery to reattach the hymen and then, according to some she is 're-virginized' even if she has done zina with a hundred different men. (I could go on about this but I'll spare you this time ).

IMO, the cultural definition is degrading to women and it treats them like a product or a package, assigning one value to an unopened package (even though the y can't agree with what an unopened package is) and one value to an open package. This is disrespectful since every women is a creation of Allah(s.w.a) and the highest form of creation with the potential to be higher than the angels and the hymen is just a piece of skin that is not assigned any particular value in Islamic traditions. Our traditions tell us that the value of a women who is obedient to Allah(s.w.a) is not able to be calculated by our mundane means.

If you study biology, you will see that every physical aspect of virginity is reversible, even the presence of the hymen. If a women observes her iddah, all physical cells and tissue that came into contact with the previous husband are gone before she touches her next husband, due to the bodies cycle of shedding su perficial skin cells at regular intervals. So even from a biological aspect, if a women observes iddah she is physically a virgin for her next husband

Edited by Abu Hadi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the brother/sister is using biology here. It's impossible for a boy/girl to be unaware of the opposite sex. We basically are animals, we were created to survive and reproduce. Kids start noticing the opposite sex at around 8 but don't understand and become attracted to it until they hit puberty. Allah put this attraction to the opposite sex in us in order for us to reproduce.

I'm not sure what the brother/sister meant by the homosexuality part but I can only assume that he/she meant that if we didn't have this attraction towards the opposite sex then we would be attracted to the same sex... Which I don't think I agree with. I don't quite understand either lol

Thank you 3laweyaZainabiya, and yeah that's what I meant. About the homosexuality thing, basically what I meant is that we'd only understand our own sex and our pros and cons, and so if we're totally unaware of men, it might lead us to trying to replace the role of a man with a woman instead, as we wouldn't see how a man would fit in this issue anyway... so that would mislead us into becoming attracted by other women, seeing as they can fill the role although partly (but we still can't compare with being with a man, because we're unaware of how it is to be with a man)...

I hope it's clearer what I mean't. It's not a definite opinion, just a mere thought of what could happen. Not being aware of men at all might as well lead to us not reaching puberty at all.. (?)

Anyway, I hope I was clearer this time on what I meant because tbh, discussing homosexuality isn't within my comfort zone lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a true virgin is a person who is unaware of the opposite sex mentally, spiritually and physically

I know what you mean. I highly respect most of girls from back home because they are oblivious to the workings of guys' minds which we all know are naturally designed to be bit crooked. This gives them a certain type of innocence that one cant help but find adorable. On the other hand, I find girls in this side of the world do not possess that innocence because of television that basically amplifies the blue print of a guy's mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...