Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
ana_ma3a_al_haq

A Question I Have ..

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Al selaamou aleikoem,

I was on another forum talking about the hadith :

I have left among you two matters by holding fast to which, you shall never be misguided: the Book of Allah and the Sunna of His Prophet.”

The most common reaction is this hadith only occurs in thirmidi as it is of the sihah al sit'a . While the hadith :

kittab Allah wal ithra (ahlulbayt)

could be found in 4 of the 6 sahih books.

My first question does the Quran and sunnah occur really in thirmidi or the other 5 sahih books ?

I was looking at the ayah

"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)

And my opnion is here if according to our Muslim brothers the Quran and sunna is the real version . How come Allah aza wa jal is telling the prophet (as) that he is protected from the people ?

Is it not logically that people will accept the prophets words (as) if he said : Quran and Sunnah ? .But if he told the people that they should follow the Quran and Ahlul bayt for guidance more people will reject this ? Because there were people how were against his ahlul bayt .

Could this point be used in a debate ?

And my third and last point is :

If according to our brothers the Quran and sunnah is the real hadith : how does protect them ?

While the hadith of Quran and ahlulbayt is more logically because now the purest people are protecting the book :

Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification.33:33

Thus I came to the point that even if the Quran tells :

Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian.15:9

That the quran is protected , but that the Quran could be understood wrong likewise the ahadith . So how would teach the right tafsir of the Quran and how would the tell what the correct hadiths are of the prophet ?

exactly the ahlul bayt (as) .

If anyone has more points about why the Quran and sunnah hadith is weak or wrong please do tell :).

wa selaamou aleikoem ,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

(salam)

This is going to sound strange so I ask that you hear me out for a minute. It is not wrong to say sunnah, although its possible that the ahadith may have been changed in order to hide wal ithra, but even so the changing doesn't change the spirit of what was said, if this makes sense. With this hadith, it must be looked at in light of the hadith that says wal ithra, put the two together and now you understand one of the roles of Aale Muhammed (as) -- to pass down to people the actions and sayings of the Holy Prophet (saw) throughout time. You can take the ahadith that say wal ithra without the one that says sunnah but you cant read the one that says sunnah without knowing and understanding the ahadith that say wal ithra if this makes some measure of sense. But yes you can make logical argument that the hadith that says sunnah was changed from the original of wal ithra, but, because it still keeps some of the spirit of wal ithra, at least the role of wal ithra, then its a more difficult argument to say its a fabricated hadith, because it can be argued that the narrator was attempting to show the meaning and role of Aale Muhammed (as) after the death of the Holy Prophet (saw)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

(salam)

This is going to sound strange so I ask that you hear me out for a minute. It is not wrong to say sunnah, although its possible that the ahadith may have been changed in order to hide wal ithra, but even so the changing doesn't change the spirit of what was said, if this makes sense. With this hadith, it must be looked at in light of the hadith that says wal ithra, put the two together and now you understand one of the roles of Aale Muhammed (as) -- to pass down to people the actions and sayings of the Holy Prophet (saw) throughout time. You can take the ahadith that say wal ithra without the one that says sunnah but you cant read the one that says sunnah without knowing and understanding the ahadith that say wal ithra if this makes some measure of sense. But yes you can make logical argument that the hadith that says sunnah was changed from the original of wal ithra, but, because it still keeps some of the spirit of wal ithra, at least the role of wal ithra, then its a more difficult argument to say its a fabricated hadith, because it can be argued that the narrator was attempting to show the meaning and role of Aale Muhammed (as) after the death of the Holy Prophet (saw)

Al selaamou aleikoem,

I have to say first : I like your view to the other hadith and that comparing them is indeed leaded to a conclusion that only on could be good. And of course the sunnah of the prophet should be followed there is nothing wrong with that but through who ? And if you put the hadiths next to eachother you will understand that the prophets sunna (as) should be followed through ahlul bayt (as) .We have to understand that hadith al ithra of al thaqalayn is told in 4 places according to the history (there could be more places) :Arafat,Khumm,Medina,Prophets house (as).

And the hadith was repeated by follow the Quran and ahlul bayt so this proves that they are indeed the gaurdians of al sunnah.

Thanks agi,

After watching the second video I came to another conclusion which much people probably know and it's the following thing :

I will always leave among you TWO KHALIFAHS: the Book of Allah, which is a rope stretching between the heavens and the earth, and my ‘itra, my Ahl al-Bayt. The two of them will NEVER separate till they meet me at the Lake-Font.”

The quran and ahlul bayt are the rope of Allah :

And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided. (3:103)

Thanks for the videos agi .

wa selaam ,

Edited by ana_ma3a_al_haq

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

My first question does the Quran and sunnah occur really in thirmidi or the other 5 sahih books ?

I have read sahih bukhari and in bukhari it states that the prophet (pbuh) has left his sunnah and the quran.

I have also read sahih muslim and in sahih muslim it states that the prophet (pbuh) has left the quran and the ahlalbyte (as) [According to sahih muslim, the prophets (pbuh) ahl al byte is one who is forbidden to receive zakat]

I have obly read these two hadith's and i havent even looked at the other 4 hadith's.... Hope i have been helpful :)

(wasalam)

Edited by fahimah18

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is something similar in Sahih Muslim, and I think this is considered the most authentic version by Sunnis:

Sahih Muslim, Book 031, Number 5920:

Yazid b. Hayyan reported, I went along with Husain b. Sabra and 'Umar b. Muslim to Zaid b. Arqam and, as we sat by his side, Husain said to him: Zaid. you have been able to acquire a great virtue that you saw Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) listened to his talk, fought by his side in (different) battles, offered prayer behind me. Zaid, you have in fact earned a great virtue. Zaid, narrate to us what you heard from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). He said: I have grown old and have almost spent my age and I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), so accept whatever I narrate to you, and which I do not narrate do not compel me to do that. He then said: One day Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

I have read sahih bukhari and in bukhari it states that the prophet (pbuh) has left his sunnah and the quran.

I have also read sahih muslim and in sahih muslim it states that the prophet (pbuh) has left the quran and the ahlalbyte (as) [According to sahih muslim, the prophets (pbuh) ahl al byte is one who is forbidden to receive zakat]

I have obly read these two hadith's and i havent even looked at the other 4 hadith's.... Hope i have been helpful :)

(wasalam)

There is something similar in Sahih Muslim, and I think this is considered the most authentic version by Sunnis:

Sahih Muslim, Book 031, Number 5920:

Yazid b. Hayyan reported, I went along with Husain b. Sabra and 'Umar b. Muslim to Zaid b. Arqam and, as we sat by his side, Husain said to him: Zaid. you have been able to acquire a great virtue that you saw Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) listened to his talk, fought by his side in (different) battles, offered prayer behind me. Zaid, you have in fact earned a great virtue. Zaid, narrate to us what you heard from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). He said: I have grown old and have almost spent my age and I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), so accept whatever I narrate to you, and which I do not narrate do not compel me to do that. He then said: One day Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.

Thanks sister and brother ! This video is in arabic from al raseed talking about al ithra which has 7 parts I think :

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...