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Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki

Wahdat Al-mawjud

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Wahdat al-Mawjud is the teaching of Irfan mysticism that "all things are One", part of this "Oneness" of Allah. Ultimately, once you reach the final level of mysticism (Irfaan) and realize Wahdat al-Mawjud, you believe you are Allah.

Please watch the full video, it's 20 minutes long, please don't respond to this thread if you haven't watched the whole video.

Video lecture by Ayatollah Sayed Mujtaba al-Shirazi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ5JTzLAvQ4

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This information Sayed Mujtaba is giving is not true about the followers of Mulla Sodra r.a it only applies to the followers of ibn Arabi and even so the ibn Arabi followers don't say that they are Allah they say everything is the reflection of Allah

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This information Sayed Mujtaba is giving is not true about the followers of Mulla Sodra r.a it only applies to the followers of ibn Arabi and even so the ibn Arabi followers don't say that they are Allah they say everything is the reflection of Allah

Akhi, he is talking about Wahdat al-Wujood wa al-Mawjood. Now, anyone who believes in Wahdat al-Mawjud will ultimately arrive at the conclusions he pointed out. Perhaps the lower students don't realize this yet because it's kept from them due to the implications of teaching it, thus you have to go through a master Aarafa who "guides" you into this kufr. Hence the dangers of the teaching, because the reality of it is kufr but people aren't taught that until they've been sucked into this cult.

Ibn Arabi is taught by all of the major Aarafa, and Fusus al-Hikam is one of his grander writings which the mystics seek to understand. Khomeini is said to have studied it and even wrote a commentary on it in 1937.

Here is an excerpt from Ibn Arabi, to give you a taste of Wahdat al-Mawjud, you can decide whether this is kufr or not for yourself:

When a man loves a woman, he desires union, that is, the goal of union which exists in love. In the elemental form, there is no greater union than marriage. (10) By this appetite encompasses all parts. For that reason, complete ritual washing is prescribed after intercourse. Purification envelops him as annihilation in the woman was complete in the obtainment of appetite. Allah is very jealous of His slave if He believes that he finds pleasure in other than Him. So man purifies himself by ritual washing in order to return to Him in whom he was annihilated, since that is all there is.

When man witnesses Allah in women, his witnessing is in the passive; when he witnesses Him in himself, regarding the appearance of woman from Him, he witnesses Him in the active. When he witnesses Him from himself without the presence of any form from him, his witnessing is in the passive directly from Allah without any intermediary. So his witnessing of Allah in the woman is the most complete and perfect because he witnesses Allah inasmuch as He is both active and passive. Regarding himself, He is passive in particular. For this reason, the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, loved women because of the perfection of the witnessing of Allah in them since one does not ever witness Allah free of matter. Allah by His essence in independent of the worlds. So from this aspect, the business is impossible, yet witnessing only occurs in matter. The witnessing of Allah in women is the greatest and most perfect witnessing. The greatest union is marriage.

Page 128 of Fusus al-Hikam by ibn Arabi, chapter 27 "The Seal of the Unique Wisdom in the Word of Muhammad"

Here is Ibn Arabi's understanding of what happened to Nuh's (as) people in Qur'an:

Because of their sins they were drowned and put into the Fire, and they found not for themselves besides Allah [any] helpers. (Qur'an, Surah Nuh, chapter 71, verse 25)

The one who has a stretched-out path is inclined to leave the goal, seeking what the possessor of imagination has in it, and his end is that imagination. He has "from" and "to" and what is between them. The one who has a circular movement has no beginning, "from", which clings to him, and no end, "to", is judged of him. Thus he has the most perfect existence. He "is given all the words" (19) and wisdoms. "And because of their errors" which is that which is recorded for them, "they were drowned" in the seas of the knowledge of Allah which is perplexity among the men of Muhammad. When the seas were heated up, (20) "they were put into a fire" in the source of water, "and they found no one to help them besides Allah." (71:25) Allah is the source of their helpers, and so they were destroyed in it for time without end. If He had brought them out to the shore, the shore of nature, He would have brought them down from this high degree. All belongs to Allah and is by Allah, rather it is Allah.

Page 20 of Fusus al-Hikam by Ibn Arabi, chapter 3 "The Seal of the Wisdom of the Breath of Divine Inspiration In the Word of Nuh"

So this is the mysticism (Irfan) of Ibn Arabi which is studied in Howza's of the Aarafa such as Behjat and Khomeini. There's no tafseer and ahadith quoted from the infallibles, just pure conjecture leading to kufr.

Here was an older thread, as this topic has been discussed a lot before:

But my intention is to share this information with people who haven't read the previous threads or understood the dangers of this deviant philosophy yet.

A response from Sheikh Yasir al-Habib regarding Wahdat al-Wajood wa al-Mawjood

Please accept our apologies for not being able to forward your inquiry to the Sheikh as he is currently very busy. However, Sheikh al-Habib had previously answered a similar inquiry regarding Philosophy and Mysticism.

Concisely, what his eminence said was that Mysticism (Irfan) in the way it is commonly known and practiced today is false and has no connection with the teachings of the pure household of the Prophet (peace be upon them). It is in fact synonymous to Sufism; both which are originally derived from Philosophy.

It has been reported that our pure Infallibles (peace be upon them) condemned the one who adopts the philosophers and Sufi’s path. When Imam al-Sadiq (peace be upon him) was asked about Sufis, he answered: “they are our enemies, whoever is inclined towards them then he's one of them and will be resurrected with them. There will be people who claim they love us but they are inclined towards them and they try to be like them, call themselves with their name, and say what they say, whoever is inclined towards them he's not from us and we are innocent from him and whoever rejects them and refutes them he's like someone who performed Jihad against the disbelievers with the messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and his pure family)” (Safinatul Bihar, by al-Muhadith al-Qummi, vol. 2, p. 57).

It has also been reported that Al-Hussain bin Abul Khattab said: “One day, I was with Abul Hassan al-Hadi (peace be upon him) in the mosque of the Prophet (peace be upon him and his pure family) when some of his companions, among whom was Abu Hashim al-Ja’fari, came to him. Abu Hashim was an eloquent man and had a high position near Imam al-Hadi (peace be upon him).

“While we were standing, a group of Sufis came into the mosque. They sat in a corner of the mosque and began saying ‘La Ilaha Illallah’ (i.e. there is no God but Allah). Imam al-Hadi (peace be upon him) turned towards his companions and said to them: ‘Do not pay attention to these deceivers for they are allies of the Devils and destroyers of the bases of religion.

‘They become ascetic to relieve their bodies and watch to hunt cattle…they do not practice rites except to deceive people, and do not decrease food except to…cheat the fool…their worships are but dancing and clapping, and their praises are but singing. No one follows them except the stupid, and no one believes in them except the fool. Whoever went to visit any of them alive or dead as if he went to visit Satan and idolaters, and whoever supported any of them, as if he supported, Mu’awiya, Yazid, and Abu Sufyan…’

“Then one of the companions said, ‘Even if he acknowledges your rights?’ Imam al-Hadi (peace be upon him) scolded him and shouted: ‘Do not say that! He, who acknowledges our rights, does not disobey us. Do you not know that they are the worst group of Sufis?! Though all Sufis are dissentient to us and their way is contrary to ours. They are but Christians and magi of this nation. They do their best to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse…’” (Hadiqatul Shi’ah, by al-Ardabili, p. 602, taken from al-Mufid may Allah the Most Exalted be pleased with him).

Our master Imam al-Askari (peace be upon him) has also been reported to have said to Abu Hashim al-Ja’fari: “O Abu Hashim! There will come a time where people’s faces are laughing and joyous [while] their hearts are dark and indeterminate. The Sunnah amongst them is innovation and the innovation is Sunnah. The believer amongst them is demeaned and the evil one venerated. Their rulers are oppressive and their scholars through the doors of darkness proceed.

“Their wealthy pillage the provision of their poor. Their young precede their old, and every ignorant to them is an authority, and every assignee to them is poor. They do not differentiate between the sincere and the doubtful, nor do they know the sheep from wolves. Their scholars are the most evil of God’s creation on the face of earth, because they incline towards Philosophy and Sufism. By Allah! They are of the enemies and people of distortion. They exaggerate in their love for our opponents and they misguide our Shi’a and Followers.” (Safinatul Bihar, By al-Muhadith al-Qummi, vol. 2, p. 58).

Irfan and Sufism are verily two sides of the same coin. One of the main distinctive factors found in both Irfan and Sufism is their exaltation of the symbols of Sufism such as al-Hallaj, Ibn Arabi and Jalal al-Din Rumi; in addition to their living in their hospices and taste.

As predicted by our pure Imams (peace be upon them), the Irfan known today is verily a satanic approach which claims the possibility of reaching the very kernel and reality of the existence of God through unlawful methods such as the so-called Kashf (mystical experience, miracle), Shuhud (witnessing or direct experiential knowledge) and Qat’ al-Asfar al-Arba'a (the four spiritual voyages) which are: 1. Min al-Khalq Ila al-Haq (from men towards God), 2. Min al-Haqi Ila al-Haq (journeying along with the Lord within Him), 3. Min al-Haqi Ila al-Khalq (from God to man with God), 4. Min al-Khalq Ila al-Khalq (journeying with God among men)! As you may realise they have no connection whatsoever with Shari’a.

Most dangerously, this satanic approach leads its follower to believe in the concept of ‘Wahdat al Wujood Wal Mawjood” and therefore to Shirk. The following Hadith of our master Imam al-Sadiq (peace be upon him) is one of the useful ways to refute this concept: “God is absolutely independent of all His creatures and all His creatures have absolutely nothing in common with Him. And to whatsoever the expression ‘thing’ is applicable is a creature except God and God is the Creator of everything, blessed is He, naught is as His likeness and He is the All-Hearing and All-Seeing”. (al-Kafi, vol. 1, p. 82).

7th Shawwal 1431

The Office of Sheikh al-Habib in London

http://alqatrah.net/en/question/index.php?id=57

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Akhi, he is talking about Wahdat al-Wujood wa al-Mawjood. Now, anyone who believes in Wahdat al-Mawjud will ultimately arrive at the conclusions he pointed out. Perhaps the lower students don't realize this yet because it's kept from them due to the implications of teaching it, thus you have to go through a master Aarafa who "guides" you into this kufr. Hence the dangers of the teaching, because the reality of it is kufr but people aren't taught that until they've been sucked into this cult.

Ibn Arabi is taught by all of the major Aarafa, and Fusus al-Hikam is one of his grander writings which the mystics seek to understand. Khomeini is said to have studied it and even wrote a commentary on it in 1937.

Here is an excerpt from Ibn Arabi, to give you a taste of Wahdat al-Mawjud, you can decide whether this is kufr or not for yourself:

Here is Ibn Arabi's understanding of what happened to Nuh's (as) people in Qur'an:

Because of their sins they were drowned and put into the Fire, and they found not for themselves besides Allah [any] helpers. (Qur'an, Surah Nuh, chapter 71, verse 25)

So this is the mysticism (Irfan) of Ibn Arabi which is studied in Howza's of the Aarafa such as Behjat and Khomeini. There's no tafseer and ahadith quoted from the infallibles, just pure conjecture leading to kufr.

Here was an older thread, as this topic has been discussed a lot before: http://www.shiachat....ost__p__1776293

But my intention is to share this information with people who haven't read the previous threads or understood the dangers of this deviant philosophy yet.

A response from Sheikh Yasir al-Habib regarding Wahdat al-Wajood wa al-Mawjood

I know all of this I am saying that we take our belief from Mulla Sodra not ibn Arabi which is very different

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Salam,

Brother, this is disgusting how al-Shirazi can accuse Ayatollah Bahjat of Such things 'Devil Worshipper' 'Sly' and So on..

Wahdat al-mawjud is something that is taught in Howza as part of Philosophy and shouldn't be discussed here.

In Wahdat al-Mawjud it is believed that Allah has unlimited existence and has given us some of his existence, as we live today.

I have a question, does this mean we don't believe in Allah? or that we are Allah?

Al-Shirazi and Sh.Habib always show their Ignorance as they have no clue of Philosophy.

Please don't post videos to Insult our Great Ulemaa!

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Wahdat al-Wajood is a philosophized transgression that negates the Oneness of God by giving God a material form. From a Western perspective, such concepts can be found in the writings of Baruch Spinoza, who tried to show us that everything within material existence is a reflection of God (or, in other words, is in fact God). When I use the term reflection, I mean it literally--we are all manifestations of God, which, as the OP pointed out, ultimately leads you to the most abhorrent conclusion: that you are, in fact, God, or a manifestation the God, or an episode of God and so on and so forth. Spinoza developed an entire ethical system from this principle.

This is a complete rewording of Islamic theology. Is it the sort of philosophizing that is present within some Sufi orders. As such, it is not worth any more of my time. Although I will say that these sorts of theological arguments fall prey to the same philosophical issues that have befallen pantheists, Christians and others who give the Creator material attributes or realities. This would be debatable if the universe is infinite, but it is not and has already been proven otherwise.

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(salam)

The people of knowledge regard these three positions to be a hint at the three Unities [tauhidat]. We, in the Secret of the Salat, referred to these stages in terms of the gnostic taste. Now, we explain them in other terms suitable to the common people.

Adab as-Salat by Khomeini, Section 5, Chapter 2, Concerning the Disciplines of Bowing in Ruku'

Muhammad's wisdom is uniqueness (fardiya) because he is the most perfect existent creature of this human species. For this reason, the command began with him and was sealed with him. He was a Prophet while Adam was between water and clay, (1) and his elemental structure is the Seal of the Prophets. The first singular is three, and what is more than this firstness of individuals comes from three. The Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, is the surest proof of his Lord, so he was given all the words, (2) which are everything that is named by the names of Adam. (3) He resembles the proof in its threefoldness, and the proof is a proof of itself. Then his reality grants the first uniqueness which is threefold in structure. For that reason, speaking about the domain of love which is the root of existence, he said, "I was made to love three things in your world," (4) because of what this world has of threefoldness. Then he mentioned women, and perfume, and that the coolness of his eye was in the prayer.

Fusus al-Hikam by Ibn Arabi, Chapter 27 The Seal of the Unique Wisdom in the Word of Muhammad

The Apostle Paul wrote: “For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I shall know fully just as I also have been fully known” (1 Cor. 13:12).

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

Trinity is, of course, not a biblical word. Neither are triunity, trine, trinal, subsistence, nor essence. Yet we employ them, and often helpfully, in trying to express this doctrine which is so fraught with difficulties. Furthermore, this is a doctrine which in the New Testament is not explicit even though it is often said that it is implicit in the Old and explicit in the New. But explicit means “characterized by full, clear expression,” an adjective hard to apply to this doctrine. Nevertheless, the doctrine grows out of the Scriptures, so it is a biblical teaching. http://bible.org/art...ty-triunity-god

This whole "Three is One" and "Everything is One" is Wahdat al Wajood wa Mawjood.... It's very scary and I warn anyone who reads this book to not be sucked into Wahdat al Wajood wa Mawjood by it. It is the same principle the Christians apply to say that "God is One in Three -- Father Son Holy Ghost" and they argue philosophically that it is beyond our understanding but that there is Unity in the Trinity, Oneness in everything... It's the same thing this concept Khomeini speaks about in his book when he says "The people of knowledge regard these three positions to be a hint at the three Unities [tauhidat]."

Trinity: Webster’s dictionary gives the following definition of trinity: “The union of three divine persons (or hypostases), the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in one divinity, so that all the three are one God as to substance, but three Persons (or hypostases as to individuality).” Synonyms sometimes used are triunity, trine, triality. The term “trinity” is formed from “tri,” three, and “nity,” unity. Triunity is a better term than “trinity” because it better expresses the idea of three in one. God is three in one. Hypostases is the plural of hypostasis which means “the substance, the underlying reality, or essence.”
Wahdat al-Wajood or Wahdat ul-Wujood is a concept based upon the idea that nothing exists other than Allah, and creation is merely the manifestation of Allah. This implies that the creation is Allah, and Allah does not exist outside the creation.

http://www.gawaher.c...php/t30932.html

Qur'an, Surah an-Nissa (4), 171:

people of the book, do not exaggerate your religion. do not say about Allah except the truth. indeed, the messiah, jesus son of mary, is only a messenger (and prophet) of Allah, and his word (be) which he gave to mary, and a (created) spirit by him. so believe in Allah and his messengers and do not say: 'trinity. ' refrain, it is better for you. Allah is only one god. exaltations to him that he should have son! to him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth, it is sufficient that Allah is the guardian

“And I created not the Jinns and Men except that they should worship Me.” (Qur'an 51:56)

The Qur'an is clear on Allah being Unique and unlike His Creation, and that we are His Creation, we are not Allah, naudhubilah.

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I know all of this I am saying that we take our belief from Mulla Sodra not ibn Arabi which is very different

That's not true. The Howza's teach Ibn Arabi's writings. Khomeini studied Ibn Arabi, and even wrote books about Ibn Arabi's writing. You are under a misunderstanding.

Wahdat al-Wajood wa al-Mawjood is taught just as I explained it, you will not be told straight up front that "You are Allah" but when you reach the higher stages, you will realize that. Or if you simply look at all of the quotes I've brought you and then investigate yourself, you'll realize it before getting so close to kufr.

Salam,

Brother, this is disgusting how al-Shirazi can accuse Ayatollah Bahjat of Such things 'Devil Worshipper' 'Sly' and So on..

Wahdat al-mawjud is something that is taught in Howza as part of Philosophy and shouldn't be discussed here.

In Wahdat al-Mawjud it is believed that Allah has unlimited existence and has given us some of his existence, as we live today.

I have a question, does this mean we don't believe in Allah? or that we are Allah?

Al-Shirazi and Sh.Habib always show their Ignorance as they have no clue of Philosophy.

Please don't post videos to Insult our Great Ulemaa!

(wasalam)

If they've shown their ignorance of Wahdat al-Wajood wa al-Mawjood then please show me some solid evidence from Qur'an and Ahadith to support the theory that "Everything is Allah" and that "we are manifestations of Allah", ultimately we are "Allah".

The fact is that you can't. Anyone who says they can is lying and twisting the truth, or delusional. Anyone who believes it has done kufr bro.

Wahdat al-Wajood is a philosophized transgression that negates the Oneness of God by giving God a material form. From a Western perspective, such concepts can be found in the writings of Baruch Spinoza, who tried to show us that everything within material existence is a reflection of God (or, in other words, is in fact God). When I use the term reflection, I mean it literally--we are all manifestations of God, which, as the OP pointed out, ultimately leads you to the most abhorrent conclusion: that you are, in fact, God, or a manifestation the God, or an episode of God and so on and so forth. Spinoza developed an entire ethical system from this principle.

This is a complete rewording of Islamic theology. Is it the sort of philosophizing that is present within some Sufi orders. As such, it is not worth any more of my time. Although I will say that these sorts of theological arguments fall prey to the same philosophical issues that have befallen pantheists, Christians and others who give the Creator material attributes or realities. This would be debatable if the universe is infinite, but it is not and has already been proven otherwise.

Ahsant akhi

We only need the Quran and Ahadith and the Imaam Mahdi (ajtf), no need to listen to Nasibi or kuffar about Tawheed.

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Ayat

[Shakir 7:143] And when Musa came at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said: My Lord! show me (Thyself), so that I may look upon Thee. He said: You cannot (bear to) see Me but look at the mountain, if it remains firm in its place, then will you see Me; but when his Lord manifested His glory to the mountain He made it crumble and Musa fell down in a swoon; then when he recovered, he said: Glory be to Thee, I turn to Thee, and I am the first of the believers.

[Shakir 8:17] So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; surely Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

[Yusufali 50:16] It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein.

Hadith

Allah said: He who dishonors one of My disciples is waging war against Me. The best thing through which My servant seeks nearness to Me is performing that which I have imposed on him. The servant may seek nearness to Me through performing a supererogatory prayer, and I will love him for so. If I love him, I will act as his hearing, sight, tongue, and hand. I will certainly respond to him when he calls upon Me, and I will certainly give him when he asks from Me. The most difficult thing for Me is grasping the soul of My believing servant who hates death and I hate injuring him.

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Inshallah you're not saying you believe in Wahdat al-Wajood wa al-Mawjood, but these ayats have nothing to do with that concept.

These ayats and the hadith are referring to Allah's creation and glory, and Allah's will, Qadr, and Allah's mercy on a mu'min.

It is not literal, just as when the Imaams (as) say they are the face of Allah, it is not literally Allah's face, they are Allah's creation and know it, but they are the representatives of Allah and are as close to Allah as is humanly possible in the spiritual nearness.

They are not "part" of Allah because Allah does not have parts. Allah does not beget, Allah is not born and doesn't die, humans do, creation does, Allah is not part of His Creation.

The Imaams (as) warned against such beliefs from these deviants:

Al-Kafi H 239, Ch. 7, h 2

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa and Muhammad ibn al-Husayn from ibn Mahbub from Hammad ibn 'Amr al-Nusaybi who has said the following.

"I asked Imam abu 'Abdallah (a.s.) about the words of Allah, ‘Say, ‘He is Allah, One . . .’" The Imam replied, "These verses define Allah's relation to His creation. He is the One, Unique, Eternal, and Absolute. He does not have shadow so one can hold Him but it is He who holds things by their shadows. He knows the unknown and is known to every ignorant person. He is only One. He is not in His creatures and His creatures are not in Him. He does not feel nor others can feel Him (physically). Eyes cannot see Him. He is so High that is near and is so near that He is far. Although disobeyed, yet He forgives. When obeyed, He is appreciative. His earth does not contain Him, nor do His heavens bear Him. He holds all things through His power and He is Everlasting and Eternal. He does not forget or amuse Himself. He does not make any mistakes or play. There is no lapse in His will. His judgment is rewarding and His commands are effective. He does not have a child to become His heir nor is He begotten so His power would be shared. And there is no one like Him."

Naudhubilah, the position of Islam and the Imaams (as) is clear, there is absolutely no room to misinterpret this.

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Salam

"Allah is the First and the Last, the Manifest and the Hidden, and He has full knowledge of all things." (Surah Al-Hadid Ayah 3)

Allah did not say he had full knowledge of HIMSELF, if that is what some people think by saying that Allah is all things.

"And He is with you where ever you may be." (Surah Hadid Ayah 4)

Allah is Omnipresent, or Everywhere. Notice Allah says "you", so make sense that he can't be talking to himself. Allah and 'things' and completely different. (if you think that all things are made up of Allah, then why is Allah saying that He is with you, because then there is no "you", because Allah is 'you' according to that false theory)

If Allah is part of things, then why does Allah say "let everything in the Heavens and the Earth praise and glorify Allah". If what some people say is true, then this means that Allah is glorifying himself. Allah does not need to glorify himself, and nor does he vitally need any prayers from us, but He tells us things to glorify Him for our own benefit.

Imam Ali said in Nahjul Balagha:

That there is an "Immeasurable difference between the Maker and the Made."

Imam Ali (as) proves to us clearly that there is immeasurable difference between 'things' and Allah.

He also said that in the same sermon "Allah is witness without Physical Presence."

Allah does not have by any means a Physical Presence. So that makes it clear that You can't be Allah because you have a physical presence!!!!

Also, Imam Ali (as) says: "Sense cannot conceptualize Him." Well, I think that we can all percieve ourselves and conceptualize ourselves so we can't be Allah.

It makes me, The Holy Quran, feel very embarrassed to even contrast myself with the Superior Might of Allah (SWT) in this reply.

Allah breathed from His Spirit into Humankind, or else we would've been just pieces of clay models without any being or existence of spirit or soul.

We would've been lifeless sculptures similar to stones.

So Allah breathed into us from His Spirit, and to translate a bit, this means that Allah used from His Powerful Spirit to give us something which is the outcome of his mercy that he did on us.

I would like to classify this Spirit as the 'sense of consciousness' in Mankind.

The proof for this statement is the saying from one of the 12 imams "Recognize your Self, so you then Recognize Allah."

Recognizing yourself means being more 'conscious' of your self, and Imam is saying with similitude your Self with the recognizing of Allah.

So your Spirit is your 'sense of consciousness' as Allah has put into us from His All-Powerful Being (as per extracts from sayings of infallible Imams)

Please excuse any words that are not appropriately parallel to the meaning trying to be expressed.

Imam Ali Reza (as) once said in a debate when someone asked him:

"Is the Creator part of the creation, or is the creation part of the Creator?"

So he replied by using an example:

"You can see yourself in a mirror. But are you inside it? No. Is the mirror inside you? No."

Subhanallah!

If Allah says that "We are closer to him than his own jugular vein", then notice that Allah is not a jugular vein, and nor is he a Human. He may be closer, but he is not the object. Allah is much High than what they Attribute to Him.

Allah can be closer to us than ourselves, but Allah is not still us. Allah can closer to a thing than it is to itself, but Allah is not the thing itself as a whole.

Creation is a direct and manifest sign of Allah, but it is not classified as Allah.

Please do not accuse me of any complexly paradoxical statements because they may arise or originate from your Ignorance about my true intentions or meaning behind these words which may sound to you unconvincing due to by some way or another delusive wordings that have been slightly altered from my intentions by process of translation into English Language or by any other forms of expressive or linguistic adjurations.

But may Allah Grant Us Spiritual Perfection and Understanding of True Religion.

Oh Allah! Guide Us to The Right Path, The Path of Those on whom you have given your Blessings to, not those who are victim of your Wrath, or those who have gone astray.

Wassalamualikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatoh

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It's not cool how ayatollah Mujtaba curses Bahjat and calls him all kind of names.

The intention of this clip is not to inform about wahdat al-mawjud, rather it's to inform that Bahjat is a bad person since he points at him from A to Z .

I suggest this clip to be removed as one of the main rules on shiachat is that we have to respect all shia scholars.

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Guest Jebreil

(bismillah)

(salam)

My post is not about Ibn Arabi's views on the punishment of Noah's people or Pharaoh or the like. It's about the concept of waḥdat al-wujūd.

---------

The poster who wrote about Baruch Spinoza has a strange interpretation of Baruch Spinoza or Waḥdat al-Wujūd.

Spinoza was a pantheist. The latter is a position of panentheism. The former is kufr. The latter is tawhīd.

Why?

Because pantheism means that nature is identical to God's substance. There is no talk of reflection or manifestation in Spinoza. God is nature - one substance - and we are literally part of the Divine Whole. This is kufr.

Panentheism - and waḥdat al-wujūd -, however, means that nature is the manifestation or reflection of God, that is, everywhere you look, you see God. Everywhere, you see God's holy names. Interestingly, you can find this idea in no other places than:

"...wherever you turn, there is God's face". 2:115 Qur'ān

"And (I ask you) by the light of your face that has lighten all things" Du'ā Kumayl

Interestingly:

We are the Face of God. Imam Muhammad Baqir (as)

Usul al-Kafi, i, 145, "kitab al-tawhid," bab al-nawadir, hadith 7.And it is mentioned is the Du'a-e nudbah

Are human beings - in fact the entire world - not the reflection of God? Don't you see God in the mirror of nature? How, then, do you know He exists?

(wasalam)

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This information Sayed Mujtaba is giving is not true about the followers of Mulla Sodra r.a it only applies to the followers of ibn Arabi and even so the ibn Arabi followers don't say that they are Allah they say everything is the reflection of Allah

I don't know if I have the capacity I have to deal with more nonsense...

but have you read any of Mulla Sadra? because if you have you will come across so many references being made to Ibn Arabi as a highly revered Arif.

with regards to your last post...good verses...shukran.

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Salam

Allah does not have a physical face in regards to the verses of Quran mentioned in one of the posts above.

Everywhere, you see Allah's signs. These are all Allah's creation.

Allah created everything that exists in the past, future, or present, or anything in time or outside of time.

Creation is not the same thing as the Creator.

For those who think that they are forms or varieties or pieces or parts of Allah The Supreme, then listen:

"They ascribe to Allah as associates the things that can't create anything, but they themselves are created?" Surah Al-Araf, Ayah 191 (7:191)

Glory be to Allah! He is High above any partners/associates/parts they attribute to Him!

May Allah Guide Us To The Right Path

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Are human beings - in fact the entire world - not the reflection of God? Don't you see God in the mirror of nature? How, then, do you know He exists?

Imam Ali Reza (as) once said in a debate when someone asked him:

"Is the Creator part of the creation, or is the creation part of the Creator?"

So he replied by using an example:

"You can see yourself in a mirror. But are you inside it? No. Is the mirror inside you? No."

Subhanallah!

(wasalam)

Ahsant akhi "The Holy Quran"

What they say is Kufr, may Allah protect us.

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I don't know if I have the capacity I have to deal with more nonsense...

but have you read any of Mulla Sadra? because if you have you will come across so many references being made to Ibn Arabi as a highly revered Arif.

with regards to your last post...good verses...shukran.

I read his books they give me a headache to be honest. I seen Mulla Sodra r.s condemning sufis and whoever doesn't follow the path of Ahlulbayt though and he says by the Ahlulbayt the Twelve Imams

(wasalam)

Ahsant akhi "The Holy Quran"

What they say is Kufr, may Allah protect us.

I don't believe in the tawid of ibn Arabi may Allah curse him. Read about the tawhid of Mulla Sodra which goes with hadith and Quran

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(wasalam)

Ahsant akhi "The Holy Quran"

What they say is Kufr, may Allah protect us.

(bismillah)

Instead of running around doing takfir here and there to anyone who's not in the shirazi/yasir habib cult, you should read a book or two on islamic theosophy.

Mulla Sadra Shirazi resolved any misconception on wahdat al wujud, and I advise you, for your own sake, to go up and read about his arguments.

So calm down and listen to this established fact that will resolve all your confusions:

The created being, any created being, is a possible being (ie he can exist or not exist), and is عين الفقر and cannot possibly exist without the one that created it. And if the one that created it is yet another possible being, you will continue along the vertical line of creation until you reach The Necessery Existing Being, Who is self-sufficient.

The Creator ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì, is a Necessery Existing Being, and is عين الغنى and self-sufficient, and therefore all the effusion eminates from Him unto all creation, giving it life.

Keep this fundamental basis in mind, and you won't have trouble accepting wahdat al wujud.

Now if you want to go into detail, you will have to read up on other theosophical concepts of 'Principality of Existence' (objective reality of being/existence, independent of mental abstractions, where quiddities are nothing but accidents), and 'Gradation of Being' (being/existence is the same reality in all reals of existence, and is a single reality but with gradations and degrees of intensity; the best example for that is light, and the different sources of that same reality).

Now go away and contemplate the Quran and narrations of the Imams and the books of our most esteemed scholars, and don't return until you've understood this.

You're an insult to Islam and the deep knowledge it holds.

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Al-Kafi H 244, Ch. 8, h 3

Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from ibn abu ‘Umayr from abu Ayyub from Muhammad ibn Muslim from Imam abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) who has said the following. "O Muhammad, people rationalize everything. They even speak about Allah’s self. When you hear such discources, say to them ‘There is no god but Allah, the One and no one is similar to Him.’"

I will just let the hadith do the talking insha'Allah.

thecontentedself and Jebreil, just bring me hadith instead of opinions. Like the following:

Al-Kafi H 217, Ch. 2, h 3

Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from Yunus from abu al-Maghra in a marfu‘ manner from Imam abu Ja‘far (a.s.) who has said the following."Allah is distinct from His creatures and His creatures are different from Him and whateverthat is called a thing is a creature except Allah."

Al-Kafi H 239, Ch. 7, h 2

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn ‘Isa and Muhammad ibn al-Husayn from ibn Mahbub from Hammad ibn 'Amr al-Nusaybi who has said the following. "I asked Imam abu 'Abdallah (a.s.) about the words of Allah, ‘Say, ‘He is Allah, One . . .’" The Imam replied, "These verses define Allah's relation to His creation. He is the One, Unique, Eternal, and Absolute. He does not have shadow so one can hold Him but it is He who holds things by their shadows. He knows the unknown and is known to every ignorant person. He is only One. He is not in His creatures and His creatures are not in Him. He does not feel nor others can feel Him (physically). Eyes cannot see Him. He is so High that is near and is so near that He is far. Although disobeyed, yet He forgives. When obeyed, He is appreciative. His earth does not contain Him, nor do His heavens bear Him. He holds all things through His power and He is Everlasting and Eternal. He does not forget or amuse Himself. He does not make any mistakes or play. There is no lapse in His will. His judgment is rewarding and His commands are effective. He does not have a child to become His heir nor is He begotten so His power would be shared. And there is no one like Him."

Al-Kafi H 242, Ch. 8, h 1

Muhammad ibn al-Hassan has narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad from al-Hassan ibn Mahbub from Ali ibn Ri’ab from abu Basir From Imam abu Ja‘ far (a.s.) who has said the following. "Speak about the creation of Allah and do not speak about Allah His-self. Speaking about the Allah’s self does not increase anything to one’s knowledge except more confusion." In another Hadith from Hariz it reads, "Speak about every thing but do not speak about Allah’s self."

al-Kafi H 243, Ch. 8, h 2

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from ibn abu ‘Umayr from 'Abd al-Rahman ibn al-Hajjaj from Sulayman ibn Khalid from Imam abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.), who has said the following. "The words of Allah, the Majestic, the Glorious, that say, ‘And that the final end is unto thy Lord." (53:42) instructs people to end a discussion that would take up Allah’s self as an object of investigation.

Al-Kafi H 245, Ch. 8, h 4

A group of our people has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Khalid from his father from ibn abu ‘Umayr from Muhammad ibn Humran from abu ‘Ubaydah (Ziyad ibn ‘Isa) al- Hadhdha’ from Imam abu Ja‘far (a.s.) who has said the following. "O Ziyad, beware of debates because they create doubts, invalidate one’s good deeds and turn one into a complete wreck. One may say a thing, perhaps, he will not be forgiven. In the pastthere lived a people who ignored acquiring the necessary knowledge and instead they sought a knowledge that was not required of them. They came to speak of Allah’s self and they became confused. Their extreme perplexity was such that if called from the front they would reply to the back and to the front if called from the back.’"

Al-Kafi H 246, Ch. 8, h 5

A group of our people has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Khalid from some of his people from al-Husayn ibn al-Mayyah from his father from Imam abu ‘Abdallh (a.s.) who has said the following. "He who thinks of how and when about Allah he has met his doomed."

Al-Kafi H 248, Ch. 8, h 7

A group of our people has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Khalid from Muhammad ibn 'Abdal Hamid from al-‘Ala' ibn Razin from Muhammad ibn Muslim from Imam abu Ja‘far (a.s.) who has said the following. "Beware of thinking about Allah’s self. If you would like to think about the greatness of Allah, think about His great and wonderful creations."

Al-Kafi H 251, Ch. 8, h 10

Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from ibn abu ‘Umayr from Muhammad ibn Yahya al-Khath‘ami from 'Abd al-Rahman ibn ‘Utayk al-Qasir who has said the following. "I asked Imam abu Ja‘far (a.s.), about certain attributes of Allah. The Imam raised his hand towards the heavens and said, ‘High is the Almighty. High is the Almighty. One who pursues beyond this, he is doomed.’"

Al-Kafi H 278, Ch. 11, h 3

Muhammad ibn al-Hassan has narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad from Muhammad ibn Isma‘il ibn Bazi‘ from Muhammad ibn Zayd who has said the following. "I went to Imam al-Rida (a.s.) to ask about the Oneness of Allah (God). The Imam dictated to me thus, ‘All praise belongs to Allah, Who is the originator of all things. He is the inventor of all things, an invention that came from His power and wisdom but not from a thing so it would invalidate the invention and not from a cause so it would invalidate the novelty. He created whatever He wanted and howsoever He liked. He alone did all this to manifest His Wisdom and the truth of His Providence. Intelligence cannot comprehend Him, (Awham) imagination cannot reach Him, eyes cannot see Him and measurements cannot confine Him. The power of expression is unable to express Him in words. All sights are exhausted from reaching Him and the power of describing and defining have gone astray in its description and definition of His-self. He is hidden without any veil and is concealed without any covering. He is known without being seen; described without any form, and praised without any body.There is no god, except Allah, the Great, the Most High.’"

al-Kafi H 302, Ch. 14, h 5

A group of our people has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad al-Barqi from Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from al-Mashriqi Hamzah ibn al-Murtafi‘ from some of our people who has said the following. "I was in the presence of abu Ja‘far (a.s.) when ‘Amr ibn ‘Ubayd said, ‘May Allah take my soul in your service, what is the meaning of Allah’s words, "Whoever becomes subject to my anger he is destroyed." 20:84 What is this anger?’ Abu Ja‘far (a.s.) replied, "O ‘Amr, His anger is His punishment. O ‘Amr, whoever thinks Allah changes from one state to another, has ascribed to Allah the attributes of His creatures. Nothing can provoke Allah, the Sublime, to change Him."

Al-Kafi H 308, Ch. 15, h 4

Muhammad ibn abu ‘Abdallah has narrated from Muhammad ibn Isma‘il from some of his people from Bakr ibn Salih from Ali ibn Salih from al-Hassan ibn Muhammad ibn Khalid ibn Yazid from ‘Abd al-A‘la from abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.), who has said the following. "The name of Allah is something other than Allah Himself. Every thing that is called a thing is created except Allah. Whatever is expressed by the tongue or is worked out by hands are all created. The word Allah is one example of names and an end for naming. The end is different from the thing for which it is. The end is describable is created. The Maker of things is not describable by the limits of the fact behind the name. He did not become, so His becoming a being would have been recognized through the making of what is other than Him. He did not end up where there was another’s end. Do not ever move away from understanding this rule. This is the true and pure believe in the Oneness of Allah. Observe it, acknowledge it and understand it by the permission of Allah. Those who think they understand Allah by means of covering, form or examples they become polytheists because his covering, form and example are not Him. He is only One and One alone. How can one form a belief in His Oneness by thinking that one may know Him through things other than Him. One comes to know Allah only by Allah His Own self. One who can not know Him by His Own self he has not known Him. He only comes to know some thing else. There is nothing between the Creator and the created. All is the Creator of things but not from a thing that was there already. Allah’s names are His names but He is different from His Own names and the names are other than Him."

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Please bro, you think we were born yesterday?

لم يحلل في الأشياء فيقال هو فيها كائن، ولم ينأ عنها فيقال هو منها بائن

nahjul balagha, sermon 65

مع كل شيء لا بمقارنة، وغير كل شيء لا بمزايلة

داخل في الأشياء لا بالممازجة، وخارج عن الأشياء لا بمزايلة - لا بمباينة

nahjul balagha, sermon 1

can be found in sheikh al saduq's tawheed as well:

٣ - حدثنا علي بن أحمد بن أحمد بن محمد بن عمران الدقاق - رحمه الله - قال: حدثنا محمد بن أبي عبد الله الكوفي، وأحمد بن يحيى بن زكريا القطان، عن بكر بن عبد الله ابن حبيب، عن تميم بن بهلول، عن أبيه، عن أبي معاوية، عن الحصين بن عبد الرحمن، عن أبيه، عن أبي عبد الله، عن أبيه، عن جده عليهم السلام، أن أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام استنهض الناس في حرب معاوية في حرب معاوية في المرة الثانية فلما حشد الناس قام خطيبا فقال: الحمد لله الواحد الأحد الصمد المتفرد، الذي لا من شئ كان، ولا من صفة تنال، ولا حد يضرب له الأمثال، كل دون صفاته تعبير اللغات (١) وضل هنالك تصاريف الصفات، وحار في ملكوته عميقات مذاهب التفكير، وانقطع دون الرسوخ في علمه جوامع التفسير، وحال دون غيبه المكنون حجب من الغيوب، وتاهت في أدني أدانيها طامحات العقول في لطيفات الأمور (٢) فتبارك الله الذي لا يبلغه بعد الهمم، ولا يناله غوص الفطن، وتعالى الله الذي ليس له وقت معدود، ولا أجل ممدود، ولا نعت محدود، وسبحان الذي ليس له أول مبتدء، ولا غاية منتهى، ولا آخر يفنى، سبحانه، هو كما وصف نفسه، والواصفون لا يبلغون نعته، حد الأشياء كلها عند خلقه إياها إبانة لها من شبهه وإبانة له من شبهها، فلم يحلل فيها فيقال: هو فيها كائن (٣) ولم ينأ عنها فيقال: هو منها بائن، ولم يخل منها فيقال له: أين، لكنه سبحانه أحاط بها علمه، وأتقنها صنعه، وأحصاها حفظه، لم يعزب عنه خفيات غيوب الهوى (٤) لا غوامض مكنون ظلم الدجى، ولا ما في السماوات العلى والأرضين السفلى، لكل شئ منها حافظ ورقيب، وكل شئ منها بشئ محيط (٥) والمحيط بما أحاط منها الله الواحد الأحد الصمد الذي لم صنع شئ كان، إنما قال لما شاء أن يكون: كن فكان، ابتدع ما خلق بلا مثال سبق، ولا تعب ولا نصب، وكل صانع شئ فمن شئ صنع، والله لا من شئ صنع ما خلق، وكل عالم فمن بعد جهل تعلم، والله لم يجهل ولم يتعلم، أحاط بالأشياء علما قبل كونها فلم يزدد

.بكونها علما، علمه بها قبل أن يكونها كعلمه بعد تكوينها، لم يكونها لشدة سلطان، ولا خوف من زوال ولا نقصان، تغيره صروف الأزمان ولم يتكاده شئ خلق ما كان، قدرته (١) بان بها من الأشياء، وبانت الأشياء منه، فليست له

,

...to the end of the hadith. there is a commentary on point 3 which says:

(٣) فلم يحلل فيها بالحلول المكيف كحلول بعض الأشياء في بعض، فلا ينافي قوله صلوات الله عليه: (داخل في الأشياء لا بالكيفية). وفي موضع آخر: (داخل في الأشياء لا كدخول شئ في شئ). في موضع آخر: (داخل في الأشياء لا بالممازجة.

and in the Asfar of Mulla Sadra

داخل في الأشياء لا بالممازجة خارج عن الأشياء لا بالمزايلة وفي موضع آخر ليس في الأشياء بوالج ولا عنها بخارج وفي موضع آخر قريب من ذلك س ره (٤) داخل في الأشياء لا بالممازجة خارج عن الأشياء لا بالمزايلة داخل في الأشياء لا كدخول شئ في شئ خارج عن الأشياء لا كخروج شئ عن شئ فالبينونة بينونة صفه لا بينونة عزله فاستبصر ن ره

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I'm saying what the Imaams (as) have said to say, you're saying something else.

‘There is no god but Allah, the One and no one is similar to Him.’

"Allah is distinct from His creatures and His creatures are different from Him and whateverthat is called a thing is a creature except Allah."

If you say anything different from the above, something the Imaams (as) haven't given you authority or knowledge of, then that is severe misguidance and deviation, especially when it comes to your Tawheed, your core Aqeedah.

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dude I just quoted you Imam Ali from the Nahj!!

sermon 1

Whoever said in what is He, held that He is contained; and whoever said on what is He held He is not on something else. He is a Being but not through phenomenon of coming into being. He exists but not from non-existence. He is with everything but not in physical nearness. He is different from everything but not in physical separation. He acts but without connotation of movements and instruments. He sees even when there is none to be looked at from among His creation. He is only One, such that there is none with whom He may keep company or whom He may miss in his absence.

sermon 65

He is not conditioned in anything so that it be said that He exists therein, nor is He separated from anything so as to be said that He is away from it.

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Guest EndlessEndeavor

Dawud you are tragically missing the point.

No one is saying what you accuse them of believing, so referring to ahadith is not really necessary. You have completely misunderstood the concept and yet like a blind man you keep ploughing on.

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I can't say that I believe in Wahdat al-Wujood. I think that the term is incoherent and it doesn't describe the Islamic view. With humbleness, I think that there are significant mistakes in some of the philosophical justifications which are used for some of the popular versions of this theory. However I disagree even more with those who don't even address the philosophical arguments and then falsely accuse other scholars of being pantheists.

If you are going to refute the theory then at lest try to deal with the following: 1, The problem of God being infinite yet separate from the creation. 2, The problem of God creating ex-neo. 3, The matter of whether or not existence is a predicate. 4, The fundamentality of existence etc.

Out of interest here is a reply I got from the office of Sayyid Sadiq Shirazi on this subject:

Bismillah

Salaam

The notion of wahdat al-wujood is nothing but the antithesis of Islam.

This is because there is no commonality – let alone wahdah – between the existence of creation and that of the Creator.

All the different versions of wahdat al-wujood are in contradiction with the categorical declarations made by the Almighty and the Ahl al-Bayt in this respect; and therefore all versions of the concept of wahdat al-wujood are kufr.

There are, however, some famous "Shi'a scholars" – as you put it – who believe in wahdat al-wujood; but by believing inwahdat al-wujood they are neither Shi’a nor Muslim. Amongst others, the eminent scholar Sayyid Muhammad Kadim Tabatab’ie Yazdi (the author of the authoritative work Orwat al-Wothqaa, the book that the maraje’ comment on and produce their risalah on the basis of) describes, in his Orwat al-Wothqaa, those who believe in wahdat al-wujood as kafirand consequently declares them as najis.

Some of them, in a bid to save their reputation and blend in with the Muslims, or being unawares of the essence of what they are saying, try to justify this false notion by saying there are different versions to it. But in fact the principle notion therein is totally false and rejected by Islam in no uncertain way.

It is enough that there is absolutely no mention of the notion of wahdat al-wujood, in the hadith of Ahl al-Bayt, peace be upon them, given that we have inherited a massive bulk of hadith from Ahl al-Bayt, peace be upon them. If there was any truth and credibility to this concept, we would have had some references to or mention of this notion and the imams would have elaborated upon such a pivotal issue; but – low and behold – nothing of the sort!! If this concept had any truth in it, given its significance, you would have found half of al-Kafi and two-third of Bihar filled with hadith, statements, deliberations and explanations about this matter; but nothing of the sort!! Instead we have hadith after hadith, statement after statement, and explanation after explanation dismissing, refuting, and negating such a notion as that of wahdat al-wujood altogether. The endeavour of those who try to present this notion as Islamic is similar to that of the Christians who try to convince us that the notion of trinity is a Christian concept that was taught by Jesus Christ; this is when we find no shred of evidence in the bible to support of the notion of trinity!!

Allah’s final messenger, the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and his pure family, warned of people who would be known as Sufis, who would wear suf (wool) in the summer as part of their discipline to counter their desires, who would come after him who would be deviant from Islam. The twelve divinely-appointed successors or ma'soom Imams proactively rejected this notion and those who adhered to it. At different times and occasions the Imams of Ahl al-Bayt, peace be upon them, went on to explain the principle of tawheed, to establish the standing of Islam on this issue, and refute the deviant claims made by others in this respect, which were surfacing at the time. These hadith and explanations are given in various works ranging from Nahj al-Balaghah [by Imam Ali] and al-Sahifah al-Sajjaadiyyah [by Imam Sajjad] to those such as al-Tawheed by al-Saduq, al-Bihar by al-Majlisi. In addition to numerous specific hadith that we have from our Imams to refute this notion, we also have numerous references to the Islamic tawheed that refute those false notions in most of the dua's or supplications!! For example look at the Du’a of the Day of Arafah, du’a#47 of al-Sahifah al-Sajjaadiyyah, or – now that we are in the Holy Month of Rajab – study the half-a-dozen or so du’as that are reported for this month – you will find them beautiful and also amazing in addressing the qualities and attributes of the Almighty in respect of tawheed, which at the same time proactively refute and rebuff any aspect of the notion of wahdat-al-wujood!!

Following from the lead of their ma'soom imams and the Ahl al-Bayt, peace be upon them, all true Shi'a scholars have – unanimously and vehemently – rejected this ludicrous notion throughout the ages, and they, citing relevant details, describe this notion as nothing but purely the teachings of Iblis (Satan), who has sworn to deviate mankind from the true path in any way he can.

Of course this notion is not particular to our time – or to the Islamic era – but its roots can be found in old eastern (Indian) religions the idea of which reached old Persia and Greek philosophies, such as plutonic philosophies, during the pre-Islamic era. In their bid to disperse the people from around the Ahl al-Bayt, peace be upon them, the Abbasid rulers systematically commissioned translators to have these philosophies translated from Greek to Arabic and circulated amongst the Muslims. The Abbasids were quite serious about this, and they founded the massive Dar al-Hikmah for this infamous task. [The project of translating those Greek works was first started by the Umayyad's rulers for the said purpose, but the project took second priority when the Umayyad dynasty began to crumble.] Those rulers could not imagine it in their wildest dreams how far-reaching and widespread this belief would become, and flourish even amongst the so-called Shi'a scholars one thousand years later.

The notion of wahdat al-wujood is so absurd that even, for the sake of argument, if we did not have all the hadith from the Ahl al-Bayt, peace be upon them, it would have been enough – to the sound mind – the declaration made by the Almighty in this respect in the Holy Qur’an: {there is nothing like His example} (42:11).

Furthermore, the notion of wahdat al-wujood – to the sound mind – is nothing but a figment of the imagination of the human mind, no matter how elaborate and detailed this imagination may be.

There could be countless thinkers contemplating the essence of the Almighty over countless number of years, but all those careful thoughts and deliberations cannot contain or encompass the essence of the Almighty. Whatever comes to the mind of man about the essence or likeness of the Almighty, we can certainly be assured of one thing – that that is NOT the Almighty.

The knowledge and understanding of the essence of Allah cannot be contained within the mind and understanding of man. Any understanding or possible imagination man can have about the Almighty, then that would NOT be Him and it would NOT be a correct reflection of the Almighty. That is why when the Almighty describes Himself to mankind, He resorts to declaring{there is nothing like His example}.

"The notion of the existence of Allah Almighty is simply beyond the imagination of the human mind", as the hadith and supplications declare. "Anything that the human mind can possibly think of or imagine, He is not that", the hadith stresses.

This is on the aspect of knowledge and understanding of the essence of the Almighty.

On the other hand, on the issue of union or wahdat, there is absolutely no commonality between everything that is created in existence, and the Creator; let alone there being any unity or wahdat between them. This is what the Sufis and the Aarifs claim, including the likes of Mulla Sadra. Please contemplate on this second point without us presenting further discussion......

[in his book “Insan-e Kamel”, p126, Sheikh Murteza Mutahari states: “. . . and some of those who believe in ‘Irfan and wahdat al-wujood, at certain stages, declare that they are God”!!]

Furthermore, contemplate about the hadith and supplication of Imam Jawad (the tenth imam) that addresses the Almighty: "O He who is sufficient (not in need) of everything, while everything in the heavens and earth is in need of Him."

[Perhaps this is not the best translation for this beautiful and short hadith –

يا من يكفي من كل شئ و لا يكفي منه شئ ]

Also contemplate about the Qur'anic verse [I created you while you were not a thing]. (19:9)

And you will realize that in existence we have Allah, the Creator, and we have everything else, the created.

Those who believe in the notion of wahdat al-wujood have gone astray from the teachings of Islam and Ahl al-Bayt, peace be upon them, perhaps due to the training they have been subjected to. By in believing in this ludicrous notion, the Sufis, Aarifs, and whoever "Shi'a scholars" believe in wahdat al-wujood have abandoned the most basic principle and teaching of Islam, and therefore have become completely deviant from this pure and beautiful religion. For example, in his tafsir al-Mizan, Sayyid Muhammad Hussein Tabataba'ie states something that reveals how deviant they have become. In volume 1, pp28-29 (Beirut edition, 1980) under commentary of surah al-Hamd, he states, "the path to Allah is two paths; the path of the believers, which is the shorter one, and the path of the non-believers, which is the longer."

We shall make no comment on this astonishing statement of his and leave you to contemplate on it.

Was-salaam

NB. This reply has been an extremely short response to your question, and it is not an all-comprehensive refutation ofwahdat al-wujood, but it is just to give an outline and a hint at the invalidity of the notion. A comprehensive refutation ofwahdat al-wujood would be beyond the scope of such a reply.

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Yes you quote Nahj al Balagha (which is disputable in many cases and highly misunderstood), but you are not taking the narrations into context.

You are not Allah SWT, nor are you a manifestation of Allah SWT, you can have Rahma from Ar-Rahman, but you are not Ar-Rahman nor a "piece" of Ar-Rahman, you are simply His CREATION.

People who go further than this, as the Imaams (as) have said, are doomed and confused.

I'm blind yet you are trying to understand Allah, who is really blind? You want to attempt to explain Allah and explain how you are a part of Allah when you have no permission to do so, and in fact were warned against it by the Masomeen (as).

If what you're saying were true then Ibrahim (as) shouldn't have broke the idols, Muhammad (sawa) and 'Ali (as) shouldn't have broke the Idols... Because everything is God, there is no idolatry, there is no division, everything is united, naudhubilah.

If what you're saying is true then Hell-Fire is part of Allah, and Allah is punishing Himself as He is part of it, naudhubilah. These things are all Allah's CREATIONS.

Wahdat al Wujud is a Sufi doctrine, and the Sufis were cursed

Our master Imam al-Askari (peace be upon him) has also been reported to have said to Abu Hashim al-Ja’fari: “O Abu Hashim! There will come a time where people’s faces are laughing and joyous [while] their hearts are dark and indeterminate. The Sunnah amongst them is innovation and the innovation is Sunnah. The believer amongst them is demeaned and the evil one venerated. Their rulers are oppressive and their scholars through the doors of darkness proceed.

“Their wealthy pillage the provision of their poor. Their young precede their old, and every ignorant to them is an authority, and every assignee to them is poor. They do not differentiate between the sincere and the doubtful, nor do they know the sheep from wolves. Their scholars are the most evil of God’s creation on the face of earth, because they incline towards Philosophy and Sufism. By Allah! They are of the enemies and people of distortion. They exaggerate in their love for our opponents and they misguide our Shi’a and Followers.” (Safinatul Bihar, By al-Muhadith al-Qummi, vol. 2, p. 58).

Wahdat al Wujud wa al Mawjud has no basis in Islam. The Prophet's (as) and Imaams (as) never taught this from any Qur'an or Hadith, they never said "Wahdut al Wujud", they never spoke of this concept and never taught people to believe it.

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thecontentedself and Jebreil, just bring me hadith instead of opinions. Like the following

Brother, Jebreil just show you Quran verses. But if you want hadith, then read Kitab al Tawheed by Sheik Sadoq (ra) in Chapter Two and the very fist hadith;

Imam Ali (as) said: ...He cannot be described in terms of when,what and where. He is Hidden amoung the hidden. He is Manifest in the mind through His Signs, and through His Wisdom in His Creation..."

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Yes you quote Nahj al Balagha (which is disputable in many cases and highly misunderstood), but you are not taking the narrations into context.

You are not Allah SWT, nor are you a manifestation of Allah SWT, you can have Rahma from Ar-Rahman, but you are not Ar-Rahman nor a "piece" of Ar-Rahman, you are simply His CREATION.

People who go further than this, as the Imaams (as) have said, are doomed and confused.

I'm blind yet you are trying to understand Allah, who is really blind? You want to attempt to explain Allah and explain how you are a part of Allah when you have no permission to do so, and in fact were warned against it by the Masomeen (as).

If what you're saying were true then Ibrahim (as) shouldn't have broke the idols, Muhammad (sawa) and 'Ali (as) shouldn't have broke the Idols... Because everything is God, there is no idolatry, there is no division, everything is united, naudhubilah.

If what you're saying is true then Hell-Fire is part of Allah, and Allah is punishing Himself as He is part of it, naudhubilah. These things are all Allah's CREATIONS.

Wahdat al Wujud is a Sufi doctrine, and the Sufis were cursed

Our master Imam al-Askari (peace be upon him) has also been reported to have said to Abu Hashim al-Ja’fari: “O Abu Hashim! There will come a time where people’s faces are laughing and joyous [while] their hearts are dark and indeterminate. The Sunnah amongst them is innovation and the innovation is Sunnah. The believer amongst them is demeaned and the evil one venerated. Their rulers are oppressive and their scholars through the doors of darkness proceed.

“Their wealthy pillage the provision of their poor. Their young precede their old, and every ignorant to them is an authority, and every assignee to them is poor. They do not differentiate between the sincere and the doubtful, nor do they know the sheep from wolves. Their scholars are the most evil of God’s creation on the face of earth, because they incline towards Philosophy and Sufism. By Allah! They are of the enemies and people of distortion. They exaggerate in their love for our opponents and they misguide our Shi’a and Followers.” (Safinatul Bihar, By al-Muhadith al-Qummi, vol. 2, p. 58).

Wahdat al Wujud wa al Mawjud has no basis in Islam. The Prophet's (as) and Imaams (as) never taught this from any Qur'an or Hadith, they never said "Wahdut al Wujud", they never spoke of this concept and never taught people to believe it.

You know that no matter what you say those who have actually studied theoretical Irfan and those who have the capacity to understand it will not care about what you are writing. The only people who will care about what you write are those who haven't studied Irfan and who don't have the capacity to understand anything about it. So your efforts are pretty much futile. Just letting you know.

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Guest Jebreil

(bismillah)

(salam)

To Dawud

you want to attempt to explain Allah and explain how you are a part of Allah

No. That's what you prejudicially assume we are attempting to do.

We just want to say, everything exists by God's existence, is strong by God's strength, is a work of God in which one can see God, although it is not God.

(wasalam)

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Salam

Bismillah

Allah is the Creator of Everything. Everything originates from the Originator, which the Creator, the Evolver, and the Distributor of Shapes/Forms/Colors.

Allah is One and Only. "Creation is not "One" in the same sense that God is "One"." Derived from the common sayings of Imam Ali (as).

There are many things in the universe and all have similarity between them. There are many things, but there is only One Allah.

If looked in the most basic and commonly understandable prospective, then it is obvious to humankind that there is not only one thing that exists, but many things.

Not only Allah exists, but many other things exist that are not classified as Allah. For Example, the Idols in Makkah long ago were not Allah. They may have been created by humans which were created by Allah, but they can never be known as part of the 'Wah-daaniat" or (in simple terms) "Waahidness" or in english "Oneness" of Allah.

I am logically criticizing any form of polytheistic ideology or disbelief. "But still, the disbelievers persist in rejecting." (Quran: 85:19)

Now, to respond to people, Allah is beyond limits for the physical properties of 'existence' which materialistic science cannot prove. Materialistic science which is purely based on physical evidence and does not at all go towards logical inferences or common sense may not be able to prove supernatural forces which do not apply to their point of view.

That is because:

Allah's Exalted Existence cannot be compared to the creation's low-level form of existence. (materialistic science only grasps this low-level form of existence)

Therefore, if they cannot even be compared, then we can conclude that Allah's Exalted Existence is not by any means similar to the creation's existence.

So, because of these reasons, it is logically inappropriate to unify Allah's Exalted Existence with this low-level form of created existence with any reference towards similarity.

Similarity is the main principle in which things can be unified with, so if there is no similarity between the Creator and the creation, then how will you be able to unify Allah with his creation?

Do not unify Allah with his creation!

Quran supports this: "And there is none that can be comparable to Him." (112:4)

So comparing and then consequently unifying Allah with creation is unacceptable.

This is inapplicable to Allah's Supremely High Exalted Existence.

It will sound more appropriate if you instead of saying "everything exists by God's existence" rather say "Everything exists because Allah created it."

This way it will sound more appropriate and comprehensibly or understandably logical. (Allah has created everything that exists.)

Saying "everything exists by God's existence" is adopted by some, but it will be more easily adaptable if you say it the way I have mentioned above.

Yes, everything would not and could not have existed without Allah's power and mercy, and all strength belongs to Allah, and everything is a manifest sign of Allah.

(But is not and cannot be comparable to Allah)

Wassalam

May Allah Guide Us All To The Right Path

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Guest Jebreil

(bismillah)

(salam)

To Holy and anyone who is mildly interested

First and foremost, you are discussing with Shiites, not polytheists - no need for scathing verses like these:

"But still, the disbelievers persist in rejecting." (Quran: 85:19)

It will sound more appropriate if you instead of saying "everything exists by God's existence" rather say "Everything exists because Allah created it."

This way it will sound more appropriate and comprehensibly or understandably logical. (Allah has created everything that exists.)

Here, you are absolutely right in what you say. It is more correct to say "everything exists because Allah created it."

However, it's not as bad as some make it out to be. Observe the following:

"There is no power except in God"

This reserves all power in God - waḥdat al-qudra if you like - but which manifests in our power, as seen here:

‘You did not throw, when you threw, but Allāh has thrown. (Infe’al – 17)

Does this now mean that we are unifying the Prophet and Allāh? Or does it just mean that by God's power and strength the Prophet threw the arrow?

The same goes with Existence. It's not a matter of unifying God and creation. It just means that by God's existence we exist. Yes, in other words, because of God we exist. However, all existence belongs to God, just as all power belongs to God.

One might say: "I don't exist, when I exist, but God gives me existence". In other words, our existence, just as our power or throwing force, is dependent on and derived from God.

---

To understand waḥdat al-wujūd more properly, it should be seen as trying to solve a problem.

Is there a separation between the Infinite God and creation? If yes, then God is limited to His position, and creation is limited to its position - and this limits God, and is absurd.

Is there unity between the Infinite God and creation?If yes, then God is equated with creation, and this makes God divisible and dependent on its creation, which is also absurd.

So if it is neither separation nor unity, what is it? Waḥdat al-wujūd deduces that the existence of creation does not derive from creation itself, but from God. The essences (the manifold which you speak of) derives from creation itself, and not from the One God. Thus, there is One Existence and Many Essences - nobody is saying that creatures are of One Essence with God or that creatures are a part of God's Essence.

The above solution shows that, since everywhere you look, you see existing things, you are in fact facing both many essences and the One Existence (although Existence is invisible). Thus:

"...wherever you turn, there is God's face". 2:115 Qur'ān

"And (I ask you) by the light of your face that has lighten all things" Du'ā Kumayl

As Muhammad Ali (and I think Contented Self and/or Ethereal) pointed out, the concept of waḥdat al-wujūd is more appropriately studied in relation to other metaphysical doctrines, such as tashkīk ul-wujūd (gradation of being), aṣālat al-wujūd (the primacy of being) and i`tibār al-māhiyya (the abstraction of essence).

--------------

I have to add that I too, like Muhammad Ali, am cautious about waḥdat al-wujūd, but not for the reasons given in this thread. I am altogether cautious about the truth of metaphysical systems as a whole, and prefer to perceive them as models (ie. metaphors) to see the world.

For example, I am in full favour with Holy when he says that It is more correct to say "everything exists because Allah created it."

(wasalam)

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there is a clear/huge difference between wehdat alwojood and wehdat almawjood..

this sayed needs to learn more! he is absolutely wrong and I can clarify to you if my wording in English help me..

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