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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why Do Shi'ites Hate Umar Ibn Al-khattab?!

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BillyJo

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Umar Ibn al-Khattab came to the house of Ali. Talha and Zubair and some of the immigrants were also in the house. Umar cried out: "By God, either you come out to render the oath of allegiance, or I will set the house on fire." al-Zubair came out with his sword drawn. As he stumbled (upon something), the sword fell from his hand so they jumped over him and seized him."

- Tarikh Tabari Volume 9 page 187

Chain of Transmission:

Mohammed Ibn Humayd: the source of a significant portion of Tarikh Tabari; Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, Ibn Mo'een and Ibn Jarir Tabari considered him trustworthy, although the like of Dhahabi disagreed with that (refer to Mizan al I'tidaal)

Jarir: Ahmed Ibn Hanbal narrated from him in his Musnad, as did Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi

Mugheera: "Scholar, trusted in hadith, wise" Tahtheeb al-Tahtheeb Volume 10 Page 270 #482.

Nisaii likewise trusted him.

Ziyad Ibn Kulayb: Mizan al I'tidaal by Dhahabi, Volume 2 #798 - Nisaii said he was thiqah (trustworthy) as did Ibn Hajar and Ibn Haban

&

Quote:

When Abu Bakr was given the pledge of allegiance after the demise of the Messenger of Allah, Ali and Zubayr were entering the house of Fatima, daughter of the Messenger of Allah, and would talk to her before returning to their issue. When Omar was informed of this, he went until he reached the house of Fatima and he said, “O daughter of the Messenger of Allah, by Allah, no one was more beloved to us than your father and after him no one is more beloved to us than you. If those people gathered at your house I will burn down the house on them. (The narrator) said, “Omar left and they (Ali, Zubayr et al) came to the house and Fatima said, ‘Do you know that Omar came to me and swore by Allah that if you return that he will burn down the house on you, and I swear by Allah he will carry it out. So leave decently and consider, and forget about it” and so they never came back until they gave allegiance to Abu Bakr

حدثنا محمد بن بشر -الحافظ الثقة- اخبرنا عبيد االله بن عمر -ثقة حافظ- حدثنا زيد بن أسلم -ثقة حافظ إمام- عن أبيه أسلم -ثقة، من كبار التابعين- مولى عمر قال : أنه حين بويع لأبي بكر بعد رسول االله صلى الله عليه وسلم كان علي والزبير يدخلان على فاطمة بنت رسول االله صلى الله عليه وسلم فيشاورونها ويرتجعون في أمرهم فلما بلغ ذلك عمر بن الخطاب خرج حتى دخل على فاطمة فقال يا بنت رسول االله صلى الله عليه وسلم واالله ما من أحد أحب إلينا من أبيك وما من أحد أحب إلينا بعد أبيك منك وأيم االله ما ذاك بمانعي إن اجتمع هؤلاء النفر عندك إن أمرتهم أن يحرق عليهم البيت قال فلما خرج عمر جاؤوها فقالت تعلمون أن عمر قد جاءني وقد حلف بالله لئن عدتم ليحرقن عليكم البيت وأيم االله ليمضين لما حلف عليه فانصرفوا راشدين فروا رأيكم ولا ترجعوا إلي فانصرفوا عنها فلم يرجعوا إليها حتّى بايعوا لأبي بكر.

- Izalatul Khilafa, by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlavi, v2, p362

- Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah Volume 7 Page 432

The chain of narrators is: Mohammed Ibn Bishr, Ubaydillah Ibn Omar, Zaid Ibn Aslam, Aslam the client of Omar. All of these narrators are thiqah (trustworthy).

Why don't those who call themselves of the Ahlul Sunnah Wal Jamaah explain themselves to us, according to these ahadeeth, why should we even remotely like Umar?

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I know you did not meant but this is wrongful and sinful and curse the enemies and His most beloved of Families. Astagfrullah

Salaams & Ya Ali (as) Madad

Brother, I think you misread it slightly (or I wrote it ambiguously!) but as br Dawud kindly pointed out it should be read as curse on enemies of Allah (SWT) and the enemies of the Holy Family (as).

I believed in Shi'ah/Sunni 'ittehad', that the difference between us is marginal but I've had a rude awakening.

At best very moderate (read: non-practicing) Bakris 'tolerate' us, at worst they pronounce takfeer and kill us for remembering our Imams (as) - NOTE THAT UP UNTIL THIS DAY NOT A SINGLE SHI'AH HAS BEEN KILLED WHILST REPORTEDLY SWEARING OR CURSING ANY SAHABA.

They love and defend killers and usurpers, claim to love the Ahlulbayt (as) whilst taking their 'deen' from others and follow a Prophet (SAW) who, in their eyes, was (mazhallah) illiterate, terrified of revelation, suicidal and other things I can't even mention.

Thanks be to Allah (SWT) for blessing me with being born in a household that are devoted descendants of the Masooms (as) - without this blessing I would be less than nothing.

ALI

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Guest Jebreil

(bismillah)

(salam)

To Dawud

Your post was tailored to show my position in the most ridiculous manner - which, in a less judgemental manner, bro Haydar had already questioned. I advise you to refer to post #35 (2nd post before yours) for the response. There you will read how I reconcile Truth and Taqiyya.

The question is: how do you reconcile your actions with Taqiyya, when it is clear that it is lifted only when the Qāim arrives?

(wasalam)

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The question is: how do you reconcile your actions with Taqiyya, when it is clear that it is lifted only when the Qāim arrives?

Wa 3laikum salaam wr wb,

I believe that is a ridiculous exaggeration of the truth.

One of the biggest problems any Bakri has with us is Taqiyyah. When I sit down to discuss Islam with them, they say "Yeah right you're doing taqiyyah" then I have to get the books and show them... When they realize I'm not doing Taqiyyah, they're shocked, and they come back for more. Whereas I've seen many times a Shi'a trying to do taqiyyah and he gets destroyed by Bakris, and I've seen Shi'a who have been lied to with Taqiyyah and they don't even know their own beliefs so they convert to Bakriyyah sect.

There is absolutely no way to twist the understanding of Taqiyyah to mean a persistent 100% lie. When do you tell the truth? To your students? Where? In a cave? If everyone did Taqiyyah all of the time, there would be no Shi'a alive today, because they'd not have heard the truth from anyone.

<Generation 1 Taqiyyah> Umar was bad but we don't curse him

<Generation 2 Taqiyyah> Umar wasn't bad, we like him but we think Ali should be #1

<Generation 3 Taqiyyah> Umar was one of the best Sahabah but 'Ali was better in character, there was nothing wrong with him being 2nd Khalifa

<Generation 4 Taqiyyah> Umar was the best companion after Abu Bakr

Or, we speak the truth and we die for the truth like all of the Imaams and Sahabah did. Did Imaam Hussain (as) do Taqiyyah and bow before Yazeed (LA) or did he stand up and die for Haqq?

You can choose whether to do Taqiyyah or not, but don't go mass hypotizing the entire Ummah into believing falsehood, that is from Shaytan.

Anas-ibn-Mlaik narrates from the Messenger of Allah who said: "Accept six things from me, then I will accept (and guarantee) the entrance of Heaven for you:
  1. When you speak, tell no lies.
  2. When you promise, do not break it.
  3. When you are trusted (by others), be honest.
  4. Lower your eyes (from committing sin).
  5. Guard your modesty.
  6. Hold your hands and tongues."

Khisal-i-Saduq, p. 321

Imam Abi-Muhammad-al-'Askari, the eleventh Imam, [a] said: "Wickedness was put inside a house, and the key (of its door) was rendered to be lies."

Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 72, p. 263

Imam Sajjad [a] said: "Avoid telling lies irrespective of small or great, whether it is in earnest or joking, because when a person tells a lie in small (things), he dares to tell a lie in great things, too."

Tuhaful-Uqul, p. 201

Once Imam Amir-ul-Mu'mineen Ali [a] was asked about the distance between the truth and untruth and, while he [a] was showing the distance between his eye and ear with his four fingers in order to illustrate this distance as his answer, he said: "What your eyes see is 'truth' and what your ears hear is for the most part 'untruth'."

Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 75, p. 196

Imam Baqir [a] said: "Verily, Allah, the exalted, has put some locks on vices, the key of which He has put in wine, but the vice of lying is worse than wine."

AI-Kafi, vol. 2, p. 339

Imam Rida [a] said: "Be truthful and avoid telling lies."

Bihar-ul-Anwar, vol. 78, p. 347

How do you separate lying with Taqiyyah? I will never trust a Sheikh or Ayatollah who lies to me and tells me falsehood when I'm seeking Haqq.

Bihar al-Anwar vol.78, pg.175. It has appeared in the Islamic sources that belief is nothing but love. Imam al-Baqir (‘a) says: “Belief (Iman) is love (hubb) and hatred (bughd)."

Usul al-Kafi, vol.2, pg.125. Fudayl bin Yasar reports, “I asked Abu ‘Abdillah {as-Sadiq} about love and hatred whether they are part of belief. He replied, ‘And is Iman other than love and hatred?’"

Love of Haqq, Hatred of Falsehood.

For example, "Labbayk Ya Hussain, wa La'natullahi 3layh Yazeed"

If a group of people love Yazeed (la), should we start praising him and lying about him to cover up for his sins? Do we tell the Christians it's okay to believe Jesus is god just so we don't hurt their feelings? Do we fold our arms and put our pants legs in our socks to make the Salafies happy? Or do we do what we do and let them do what they do and learn to co-exist without killing each other?

Noble Quran, 5:48 “If Allah willed, He would have made you one nation (religion) but that He may test you in what He has given you. So strive (as in a race) in good deeds."

Wa 3laykum salaam akhi

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Guest Jebreil

(bismillah)

(salam)

To Dawud

Do you know that the Imāms many times gave the wrong ruling under taqiyya? That is, they would say something is right - when it is in fact wrong - or that it is ḥarām - when it is in fact ḥalāl? The Imāms themselves reminded us that they are sometimes forced to do this, because of the safety of the community and the preservation of Truth.

Now, would you say the Imāms lied or would you say they did taqiyya?

Anyway, the ḥadīth of your Infallible Imām is clear: taqiyya will be lifted when the Qāīm comes. So it's imperative that you learn what it is and that you act on it.

(wasalam)

Edited by Jebreil
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Please, brothers please don't post and advertise Yaser al-Habib this man was made to cause Fitnah. I am not denying his speeches but the guy causes hatred amongst Muslims. Created by the West. Whoever comes and speaks for Imam Ali (as) doesn't make him a good person!

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^They are numerous. Here are two:

From Shaykh Saduq's (ra) Kamaaluddin wa Tamaamun Ni’ma, Chapter 35, Hadith 5;

Narrated to us Ahmad bin Ziyad bin Ja’far Hamadani (r.a.): Narrated to us Ali bin Ibrahim bin Hashim from his father from Ali bin Mabad from Husain bin Khalid that: Ali bin Musa ar-Reza said:

“One who does not have piety does not have religion and whosoever does not have dissimulation (Taqayyah) does not have faith and indeed the most honored among you near Allah is the one most pious of you. His Eminence was asked: Till when does he have to observe Taqayyah? He replied: Till the day of the appointed hour and on that day is the reappearance of our (Ahle Bayt’s) Qaim. Thus whosoever abandons Taqayyah before his reappearance is not from us. It was asked: O son of Allah’s Messenger, from which of Ahle Bayt is the Qaim? He replied: He is my fourth descendant, the son of the best of the maidservants. The Almighty Allah would, through him, purify the earth from every kind of oppression and remove every type of injustice from it. He is the one in whose birth the people would doubt and he is the one who would have an occultation before his reappearance. And when he arises, the earth shall be lit up with his effulgence. He would establish the scales of justice among the people so that no one may oppress the other. He is the one for whom the earth would warp itself and he would not throw a shadow. And he is the one by whose name the caller would call out from the sky inviting people to the Imam which all the people of the earth would be able to hear. The caller would say: Know that the Proof of Allah has appeared near the House of Allah, so follow him as truth is with him, and that is the meaning of the statement of the Almighty Allah: “If We please, We should send down upon them a sign from the heaven so that their necks should stoop to it.” (Shuara 26:4)

From Shaykh al Kulayni's (ra) al Kafi, Kitaab al 'Imaan wal Kufr, Chapter 93- Taqiyyah, as graded Sahih by Allamah Majlisi (ra)

Hadith #23 Abu Ali al-Ash’ari has narrated from ‘Abd al-Jabbar from Muhammad ibn Isma'il from Ali ibn al-Nu’man from ibn Muskan from ‘Abd Allah ibn abu Ya’fur who has said the following:

“I heard abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, saying, ‘Al-Taqiyyah for a believer is a shield and protection. One who does not observe al-Taqiyyah has no belief. A servant of Allah receives a Hadith from us and on that basis he follows the religion of Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Holy. It then is an honor for him in this world and light for him in the next world. A servant receives a Hadith from us and he makes it public and it becomes humiliation for him in this world and Allah, the Most Majestic, the Most Holy, removes that light from him.’”

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Guys what a senseless debate about taqiyya. Taqiyya is only allowed when your life or honr are in danger. So for example, you are in middle of desert on a personal journey, and dying with thirst, and the guy gives you water only if you praise King Abdullah of KsA, you say so and save your life.

Now same you are in the middle of desert but this time you are on a mission to save some innocent souls in Yemen from KSA bombardments, and you found a Saudi person and once you ask water, he says, praise Abdullah, and you take your dagger out and give him an Italian smile.

Now same you are in a middle of war with armies of Satan, and there are Sunni tribes living nearby, and you go and ask them for unity so you could expell this army of Satan, you will surely make this alliance. Now if you start cursing their fat mama or their ugly thief uncle Umer, you are not gng to get that support. So in this case, you do not need Taqiyya neither you need idots like Yasir Al Habib, you need conciliatory "walk the talk" Hassan Nasrallah sort of ulema who make peace with Sunnis, bakris, doggies, whoever, to boot the hell out of armies of Iblees.

Now answering OP's original post - Shia Muslims hate Umer ibn Whoever, because he was the enemy of Prophet (s), was the enemy of Prophet's daughter, and Prophet's children, hence by default he was the enemy of Allah. Wallahi we do not have any personal vendetta with Umer, it is all for the love of Allah and his RasoolAllah.

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While I agree with some of your comments,

Why are you calling a fellow Muslim an idiot?

Sheikh Yasir al-Habib is only speaking the truth from the books. If you think one becomes an idiot for sharing knowledge and Haqq from the books then I don't know what to say to you.

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Guest Jebreil

(bismillah)

(salam)

To Dawud

التقیة واجبة لا یجوز ترکها إلی أن یخرج القائم

To Waiting

The Imāms did not do taqiyya because of their lives alone, but also because of the community's wellbeing.

There's a ḥadīth cautioning us even from praising and publicly showing love of the Ahlulbayt, in a situation in which we would be targeted. Let alone provoking the majority with public cursing and swearing. Hate does not need to be public. Love does not need to be public. Have some confidence in yourselves and, by your actions, educate and preach. The Ahlulbayt cautioned us, so that every week bombs don't go off in Iraq and Pakistan. There's no point in saying they've always been killing us. Our job is not to give the excuse, not to provoke, not to open ourselves for verbal and physical attack, and that's the reasoning behind the ḥadīth of taqiyya, which will not be lifted until the rise of al-Qāim.

(wasalam)

Edited by Jebreil
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I stumbled across this on youtube, and it seems to be of a video of an Iranian Shia scholar (I don't know who he is, maybe someone here does) who disagrees with the narration/allegation that Umar ibn al Khattab broke the ribs of Fatimah ra, so it's clear there is no consensus among Shias that this is particularily true, rather a difference of opinion. I am aware there must be countless videos on youtube suggesting the otherwise, but this is just to show that there are some Shias who don't believe this.

Oh and a warning in advance, you might want to fast forward to 10 seconds, as many of you wont like the beginning graphics, which is clear the person who uploaded it has their own sort of agenda. But hey, I didn't make the video don't hold it against me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6mJsyjZjcng

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I stumbled across this on youtube, and it seems to be of a video of an Iranian Shia scholar (I don't know who he is, maybe someone here does) who disagrees with the narration/allegation that Umar ibn al Khattab broke the ribs of Fatimah ra, so it's clear there is no consensus among Shias that this is particularily true, rather a difference of opinion. I am aware there must be countless videos on youtube suggesting the otherwise, but this is just to show that there are some Shias who don't believe this.

Oh and a warning in advance, you might want to fast forward to 10 seconds, as many of you wont like the beginning graphics, which is clear the person who uploaded it has their own sort of agenda. But hey, I didn't make the video don't hold it against me.

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=6mJsyjZjcng

... lol

That video is a disgrace. He talks as if the Shi'a are mainly from Iran, and it's about some Persian-Arab war. That's ridiculous. They quote Fadhlallah at the beginning, that guy has been exposed as more Bakri than most Bakris.

The attack on Fatima Zahra (as) is in both Bakri and Shi'a sources, this guy acts like Shi'a invented it out of nothing.

Learn from Grand Ayatollah Sayed Sadiq Shirazi and Sheikh Yasser al-Habib inshallah, if you disagree with them then alhamdulilah find what you like best, but at least look at what they say first.

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I hate him from the bottom of my heart. I do not have any personal grudge with him as he was born and dead way before my time but i hate him because Islam suffered the most under his rule. When prophet s.a.w was present, this man used to argue with prophet s.a.w over various matters so when he got the power, he changed all the shariah.

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if the story of broken rib was true than ur imams would not have named their children omer .

None of our Imams (peace be upon them) named any of their sons after their enemies. Umar ibn al-Khattab was not the first Umar in history, and therefore there is no proof that Imam Ali (peace be upon him) named his son such name due to his respect for Umar!

He might have named his son after Umar bin Abi Salma, son of Umm Salma (i.e. the Prophet’s wife peace be upon them). He fought with Imam Ali in the battle of Camel against Aisha (May the curse of Allah be upon her). He was one of the righteous companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him and his pure family) who did not turn upon his heels after the martyrdom of the Prophet (peace be upon him and his pure family).

Also Uthman ibn Afan was not the first Uthman in history and therefore there is no proof that Imam Ali (peace be upon him) respected him so much that he named one of his sons in his memory.

In addition to the fact that these names were common amongst the prominent Arab tribes; there is no proof in any of the traditions that our Imams named their sons such names due to their respect for these individuals. On the contrary we find that Imam Ali (peace be upon him) named one of his sons Uthman in memory of his friend Uthman bin Math'oun who was one of the righteous companions who died at the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him and his pure family)

Imam Ali (peace be upon him) said: "I shall name this child after my brother Uthman bin Math’oun” (Tanqihul Maqal vol. 2 p. 247)

However, those who claim that Imam Ali (peace be upon him) named one of his sons Abu Bakr we tell them, that Abu Bakr is not a name rather a Qunya (nickname) and it is impossible that a highly eloquent individual such as Imam Ali (peace be upon him) would choose a Qunya as a name for his son.

http://alqatrah.net/...index.php?id=22

Edited by Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki
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by the same logic yazeed was also not the first person whose name was yazeed .so why ur imams did not name their chidren yazeed after the name of Yazid ibn Ziad ibn Mazahi al-Kindi and Yazeed ibn al Haseen who was the martyers of karbala.

The best of the names are names of prophets s.a.w and Imams p.b.u.t, why you want them to name yazid!!! are you son of yazid lantullah and trying to save his name???

Shia muslims avoid the name yazid after what Yazid lantullah may be your forefather did in karbala and many other muslims too. Because this became icon of filth after karbala, battle of Hurra and planned attack on kaba.

May Allah curse yazid and his followers in the deepest part of hell.

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by the same logic yazeed was also not the first person whose name was yazeed .so why ur imams did not name their chidren yazeed after the name of Yazid ibn Ziad ibn Mazahi al-Kindi and Yazeed ibn al Haseen who was the martyers of karbala.

Because the Imaams (as) are naming their children, not you or me. You'd have to ask them.

I'll ask you a similar question, why did Muhammad (sawa) name his daughter Fatima (as) after 'Ali's (as) mother if Abu Bakr is greater, why not name after Abu Bakr's mother? Does this imply that 'Ali (as) is greater than Abu Bakr?

This discussion is pointless because it neither proves Bakriyyah sect nor disproves Shi'a.

If you want to debate, make your own thread and pick a topic.

Here is a serious point, which is keeping on the topic of this thread:

If Umar is greater than 'Ali (as) then explain the event of Khayber, Abu Bakr and Umar were given the opportunity to conquer Khaiber but they failed miserably, as usual, Imaam 'Ali (as) stepped up only after everyone else was given opportunity, and succeded where the previous had failed or been too coward to step up.

(1) Narrated Salama bin Al-Akwa: Ali remained behind the Prophet during the battle of khaibar as he way suffering from some eye trouble but then he said, "How should I stay behind Allah's Apostle?" So, he set out till he joined the Prophet. On the eve of the day of the conquest of khaibar, Allah's Apostle said, "(No doubt) I will give the flag or, tomorrow, a man whom Allah and His Apostle love or who loves Allah and His apostle will take the flag. Allah will bestow victory upon him." Suddenly 'Ali joined us though we were not expecting him. The people said, "Here is 'Ali. "So, Allah's Apostle gave the flag to him and Allah bestowed victory upon him. (Book #52, Hadith #219)

(2) Narrated Sahl: On the day (of the battle) of khaibar the Prophet said, "Tomorrow I will give the flag to somebody who will be given victory (by Allah) and who loves Allah and His Apostle and is loved by Allah and His Apostle." So, the people wondered all that night as to who would receive the flag and in the morning everyone hoped that he would be that person. Allah's Apostle asked, "Where is 'Ali?" He was told that 'Ali was suffering from eye-trouble, so he applied saliva to his eyes and invoked Allah to cure him. He at once got cured as if he had no ailment. The Prophet gave him the flag. 'Ali said, "Should I fight them till they become like us (i.e. Muslim)?" The Prophet said, "Go to them patiently and calmly till you enter the land. Then, invite them to Islam, and inform them what is enjoined upon them, for, by Allah, if Allah gives guidance to somebody through you, it is better for you than possessing red camels." (Book #52, Hadith #253)

(3) Narrated Salama: Ali happened to stay behind the Prophet and (did not join him) during the battle of khaibar for he was having eye trouble. Then he said, "How could I remain behind Allah's Apostle?" So 'Ali set out following the Prophet , When it was the eve of the day in the morning of which Allah helped (the Muslims) to conquer it, Allah's Apostle said, "I will give the flag (to a man), or tomorrow a man whom Allah and His Apostle love will take the flag," or said, "A man who loves Allah and His Apostle; and Allah will grant victory under his leadership." Suddenly came 'Ali whom we did not expect. The people said, "This is 'Ali." Allah's Apostle gave him the flag and Allah granted victory under his leadership. (Book #57, Hadith #52)

(4) Narrated Sahl bin Sad: On the day of khaibar, Allah's Apostle said, "Tomorrow I will give this flag to a man through whose hands Allah will give us victory. He loves Allah and His Apostle, and he is loved by Allah and His Apostle." The people remained that night, wondering as to who would be given it. In the morning the people went to Allah's Apostle and everyone of them was hopeful to receive it (i.e. the flag). The Prophet said, "Where is Ali bin Abi Talib?" It was said, "He is suffering from eye trouble O Allah's Apostle." He said, "Send for him." 'Ali was brought and Allah's Apostle spat in his eye and invoked good upon him. So 'Ali was cured as if he never had any trouble. Then the Prophet gave him the flag. 'Ali said "O Allah's Apostle! I will fight with them till they become like us." Allah's Apostle said, "Proceed and do not hurry. When you enter their territory, call them to embrace Islam and inform them of Allah's Rights which they should observe, for by Allah, even if a single man is led on the right path (of Islam) by Allah through you, then that will be better for you than the nice red camels. (Book #59, Hadith #521)

Muhammad Husayn Haykal

The campaign of Khaybar was one of the greatest. The masses of Jews living in Khaybar were the strongest, the richest, and the best equipped for war of all the peoples of Arabia. (The Life of Muhammad, Cairo, 1935)

The Muslims, however, were able to capture all the fortresses of Khyber except al-Qamus which proved to be impregnable. Muhammad send Abu Bakr on one occasion, and Umar on another, with hand-picked warriors, to attempt the conquest of al-Qamus. Both made the attempt and both failed. Some other captains also tried to capture the fortress but they also failed. These repeated failures began to undermine the morale of the army.

Muhammad realized that something dramatic had to be done to restore the wilting morale of the Muslims, and immediately. And when one more attempt to capture al-Qamus had also aborted, his mind was made up, and he declared: "Tomorrow I shall give the banner of Islam to a hero who loves God and His Apostle, and God and His Apostle love him. He is one who attacks the enemy but does not run, and he will conquer Khyber."

The companions knew that the prediction of the Messenger of God would come true, and that Khyber would be conquered on the following day. Everyone of them, therefore, became a candidate for the glory and honor of conquering it. Many of them were kept awake all night by the ambition to become "the beloved of God and His Apostle," and to become the hero who would capture Khyber.

On the following morning, the companions gathered in front of the tent of the Prophet. Each of them was decked out in martial array, and was vying with others in looking the most impressive figure.

Presently, the Messenger of God came out of his tent, and the vast throng began to show signs of restlessness. Each of the companions tried to make himself more conspicuous than others in the hope of catching the eye of the master. But the latter didn't appear to notice any of them and only posed one question: "Where is Ali?"

Ali at this time was in his tent. He knew that if he was the "beloved of God and His Apostle," then he, and no one else would capture the fortress of al-Qamus. The Prophet sent for him.

When Ali came, the Prophet solemnly placed the banner of Islam in his hand. He invoked God's blessings upon him, prayed for his victory, and bade him farewell. The young hero then advanced toward the most formidable fortress in all Arabia where the bravest of the Hebrew warriors were awaiting him. He fought against them all, overcame them, and planted the banner of Islam on its main tower.

When the conqueror returned to the camp, the Messenger of God greeted him with smiles, kisses and embraces, and prayed to God to bestow His best rewards upon His lion.

http://www.al-islam.org/restatement/29.htm

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the imams did not name their children after yazeed because if any person killed ur love ones u can not  hear that name of that person again. by this logic it can be concluded that accident of house of fatima (ra)  is merely a fabrication as admitted by famous shia scholars fadhalullah and ahmad qbanji.

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the imams did not name their children after yazeed because if any person killed ur love ones u can not  hear that name of that person again. by this logic it can be concluded that accident of house of fatima (ra)  is merely a fabrication as admitted by famous shia scholars fadhalullah and ahmad qbanji.

You didn't respond to my response.

I don't accept Fadhallah or Qbanji as Hujjat upon me.

I agree more with the perspective of Grand Ayatollah's Sayed Muhammad Shirazi and Sayed Sadiq Shirazi.

Because the Imaams (as) are naming their children, not you or me. You'd have to ask them.

I'll ask you a similar question, why did Muhammad (sawa) name his daughter Fatima (as) after 'Ali's (as) mother if Abu Bakr is greater, why not name after Abu Bakr's mother? Does this imply that 'Ali (as) is greater than Abu Bakr?

This discussion is pointless because it neither proves Bakriyyah sect nor disproves Shi'a.

If you want to debate, make your own thread and pick a topic.

Here is a serious point, which is keeping on the topic of this thread:

If Umar is greater than 'Ali (as) then explain the event of Khayber, Abu Bakr and Umar were given the opportunity to conquer Khaiber but they failed miserably, as usual, Imaam 'Ali (as) stepped up only after everyone else was given opportunity, and succeded where the previous had failed or been too coward to step up.

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and i hate raam because he burned sita alive.

i wonder if that charecter was true or just a myth

but who is stopping u .........go hate him

love umar ibn al khattab,yazid,muwaiyya.....................as u are doing already

and on the day of judgement day......................get ready to burn in hell

Edited by varun loves ahlulbayt
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  • 1 year later...

As a non-muslim after reading all you guys arguing i have changed my mind becoming a muslim.  Muslims seem to be very complicated people who are lost in the world !

Actually reading all this i think Islam is not a true religion !

 

 

You Seem to Prefer Ignorance over logic.

First of All, If your Looking for an Easy Religion to suit your Desire, you are Heavenly mistaken,

For if God gave mankind a Religion, Do you have the right to Refuse? Do you have right to say this is to complicated?

Third of All Logically One must Understand the Concept of the One God, and How he gives his message, and than Reading 

And Understanding. Just because people are having an Argument about something it does not mean the Religion it self is Complicated.

You Blindly Desire a Truth, which you desire, and not a Truth which is righteous.

     

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  • 5 months later...
  • Basic Members

Umm Kulthum Bint Ali, Daughter of Hazrat Ali ibn Abi Talib [RA] and Hazrat Fatima-Zehra [RA] was married to Hazrat Umar ibn Al-Khattab, the 2nd Rightly Guided Khalifah of Islam.

Masha-Allah.

This is a fact and no shia can refute this piece of history.

:)))

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Umm Kulthum Bint Ali, Daughter of Hazrat Ali ibn Abi Talib [RA] and Hazrat Fatima-Zehra [RA] was married to Hazrat Umar ibn Al-Khattab, the 2nd Rightly Guided Khalifah of Islam.

Masha-Allah.

This is a fact and no shia can refute this piece of history.

:)))

Wasn't Lut (a.s) about to marry his daughters to people who practice same gender relations? You know why he did this? Because he wanted to sacrifice for the religion. He knows Islam is bigger than his daughter. Same way Imam Ali did.

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Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman are irrelevant, Shia's would've hated anyone who became the first 3 caliphs besides Imam Ali.

 

If Mr. XYZ was the first caliph, the Shia's would hate him, find ways to slander him, it wouldn't even matter if Mr. XYZ was the nicest guy in the world, Shia's would try to find something to hate him for.

 

Basically, Shia's have to hate by default, they have no choice, regardless who the first 3 caliphs were (excluding Imam Ali).

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Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman are irrelevant, Shia's would've hated anyone who became the first 3 caliphs besides Imam Ali.

 

If Mr. XYZ was the first caliph, the Shia's would hate him, find ways to slander him, it wouldn't even matter if Mr. XYZ was the nicest guy in the world, Shia's would try to find something to hate him for.

 

Basically, Shia's have to hate by default, they have no choice, regardless who the first 3 caliphs were (excluding Imam Ali).

 

 

Is that why there are ahadeeth that are agreed upon by all madhaabs that showed direct conflict between Imam ali (as) and the three?

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Abu Bakr, Umar, and Uthman are irrelevant, Shia's would've hated anyone who became the first 3 caliphs besides Imam Ali.

 

If Mr. XYZ was the first caliph, the Shia's would hate him, find ways to slander him, it wouldn't even matter if Mr. XYZ was the nicest guy in the world, Shia's would try to find something to hate him for.

 

Basically, Shia's have to hate by default, they have no choice, regardless who the first 3 caliphs were (excluding Imam Ali).

Actually there is more to that.

Abu Bakr and Fadak.

Umar and attacky Fatima (a.s).

Uthman and appointed Banu Ummaya. Also some people say a corrupt government.

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Lool .

This thread is a piece of s h * t made by 0 IQ [Edited Out]e cl0wns. The same b0ring & useless stuff u c0me up with, piece of c r * p .

The real & true reas0n why shias hate umar r.a is that he banned MUTTAH :D

Please do not swear.

1 - No, we crtisize him because he hurt Fatima al Zahra.

2 - I don't really care. But who is he to banned something the Peophet and Allah allowed? He is not someone who has the right to create a new Sharia.

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2 - I don't really care. But who is he to banned something the Peophet

and Allah allowed? He is not someone who has the right to create a new

Sharia.

Lol If there was a thread abt mutah then i c0uld explain what that ayah truly means with the hist0ry & m0dern age. Seri0usly, h0w u guys can think its g0od? W0uld u like s0meone's sister get nude for a man only for few days & he can use her sexualy as much he want & when he his desires are fullfilled then its time to divorce her & thr0w her like a piece of cr *p . 4 u its a gud deed becuz u r save fr0m zinah, u think Allah has created 4 u to save fr0m zinah cuz u cnt c0ntr0l ur self so we shold do that? 0k then sunnis r also men, y they dnt do that, hw cn they c0ntrol they're also same i knw s0me r bad & do s/th ilegal but maj0rity never do. Wht kind of muslim w0men we r exp0sing to w0rld who gets nude infr0nt of men 4 few days with a "c0ntract", h0w cheap!

Heera mandi, the biggest prostituti0n market in pak & m0st w0men there r ' shias ' , they do it cuz they think they'l get "reward" in akhirah .mashalah

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