Qur'an & Ahadith Shocking Truth

[Alejandro Sosa]

Surah Al-Mu'minun, Chapter 23, Ayat 1 & 3:

Successful indeed are the believers.... And those who turn away from Al-Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk, falsehood, and all that Allah has forbidden).

Arabic ref: Bukhari, 54 kitab-e-shuroot, bab 15, hadith 2770

English Reference: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 50, Number 891 (Translated by Muhsin Khan, Saudia) (Umsus (suck) Badhar (clitoris) )

Abu Bakr said: "Go and suck the clitoris of Laat"

So when Mujtaba Shirazi calls people "sons of [Edited Out]es" and "sons of [Edited Out]s", what are your views on that?

[Firuzeh18]

These are elementary arguments my 8 year old sister can refute.

Part 1

Part 2

Watch those, they'll entertain you and educate you on some important topics, while answering your question about Adam (as)

I wrote a whole article (more like copied it...LOL..) on Prophet Adam (as) being an infallible human............if u want to read it, click on this link:

http://www.shiachat....le/page__st__25

Edited February 13, 2012 by fahimah18

[Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki]

So when Mujtaba Shirazi calls people "sons of [Edited Out]es" and "sons of [Edited Out]s", what are your views on that?

Sons of what?

It edited out your words so I don't know.

Mujtaba Shirazi isn't using vulgarity, he uses terms that Allah or Masoomeen (as) used, or he quotes the history books and well known knowledge of accepted facts.

Not sure what your point is.

[Alejandro Sosa]

I'd like your views on your honourable scholar please.

[Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki]

I'd like your views on your honourable scholar please.

They're mistranslating it.

Here is the definition according to almaany.com

معنى قحبة في قاموس المعاني. قاموس عربي انجليزي

قَحْبَة ( الجذر: قحب - المجال: صفات ) : مُومِس

- adulteress

- a woman who commits adultery

- fashionable prostitute

- litrary a woman with dirty trailing skirts , used to describe a woman of a bad reputation

- a prostitute; [Edited Out]

- a woman who is sexually immoral

- a criminal's girlfriend; prostitute

- a prostitute seeking customer in the street

- prostitute

- a prostitute; a promiscuous woman

- spiteful, malicious or ill-tempered woman

http://www.almaany.com/home.php?language=arabic&word=%D9%82%D8%AD%D8%A8%D8%A9&lang_name=English&category=%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D9%84&type_word=0

He said "Zindeeq wa Nasibi ibn Qahba"

القحبة

He literally said "Disbeliever, Nasibi (enemy of Ahl al-Bayt a.s.), son of one who coughs"

"ibn Qahba" implies son of an adulterer... There are many words meaning the b-word... A word for "*****" (as they're interpreting it) would be الكلبة or العاهرة... But "Qahba" actually means "to cough" but is used for a reference to [Edited Out]s because the [Edited Out]s used to cough to get the attention of potential customers.

He isn't using foul language. The `Aimmah (as) also have described some people as "sons of adulteresses".

Here is a fatwa from Ayatollah Jafar Subhani's website where he uses the term "Qahba" قحبة

ولو قال لرجل يا مخنثّ وقصد أنّ فيه طباع التّأنيث والتّشبيه بالنساء، أو قال لامرأة: يا قحبة، وقصد أنّها تستعدّ لذلك، فلا حدّ عليه، ولو قصد بشيء من ذلك الزنا حُدّ .

http://imamsadeq.com/index.php/page,530Book210P15.html?PHPSESSID=7d99e62b3ce19ce4e8089c62eae1aa90

You can't pray behind the son of an adulterer in Shi'a Fiqh, for another example.

It's just like a scholar who says "Kafir" with evidence and from the riwayah, versus a street thug who says it meaning to emotionally insult someone.

Here are even a Bakri references:

وفي الصحيحين أن رسول الله قال اجتنبوا السبع الموبقات فذكر منها قذف المحصنات الغافلات المؤمنات والقذف أن يقول لامرأة أجنبية حرة عفيفة مسلمة يا زانية أو يا باغية أو يا قحبة أو يقول لزوجها يا زوج القحبة أو يقول لولدها يا ولد الزانية أو يا ابن القحبة أو يقول لبنتها يا بنت الزانية أو يا بنت القحبة فإن القحبة عبارة عن الزانية فإذا قال ذلك أحد من رجل أو امرأة لرجل أو لامرأة كمن قال لرجل يا زاني أو قال لصبي حر يا علق أو يا منكوح وجب عليه الحد ثمانون جلدة إلا أن يقيم بينة بذلك والبينة كما قال الله أربعة شهداء يشهدون على صدقه فيما قذف به تلك المرأة أو ذاك الرجل فإن لم يقم بينة جلد إذا طالبته بذلك التي قذفها أو إذا طالبه بذلك الذي قذفه وكذلك إذا قذف مملوكه أو جاريته بأن قال لمملوكه يا زاني أو لجاريته يا زانية أو يا باغية أو يا قحبة لما ثبت في الصحيحين عن رسول الله أنه قال

http://alhibr1.com/hadith.php?m=49991

والقذف -عباد الله- هو أن يقول لامرأة أجنبية حرة عفيفة مسلمة: يا زانية، أو يا باغية، أو يا قحبة، أو يقول لزوجها: يا زوج القحبة، أو يقول لولدها: يا ولد الزانية، أو يا ابن القحبة، أو يقول لبنتها يا بنت الزانية، أو يا بنت القحبة، فإن القحبة عبارة عن الزانية، فإذا قال ذلك أحد من رجل أو امرأة كمن قال لرجل: يا زاني أو لصبي حر يا علق أو يا منكوح وجب عليه الحد ثمانين جلدة إلا أن يقيم بينة بذلك، والبينة كما قال الله: {أربعة شهداء} يشهدون على صدقه فيما قذف به تلك المرأة أو ذاك الرجل فإن لم يقم بينة جلد إذا طالبته بذلك التي قذفها أو إذا طالبه بذلك الذي قذفه..

http://www.alimam.ws/ref/427

The word is used in its context, it's not some vulgar street speak like you're seeming to imply.

قال الأمام الذهبي ـرحمه الله تعالى ـ : " والقذف : أن يقول لامرأة أجنبية حرة عفيفة مسلمة : يا زانية ، أو يا باغية ، أو يا قحبة ، أو يقول لزوجها : يا زوج القحبة ، أو يقول لولدها : يا ولد الزانية أو يا ابن القحبة . أو يقول لبنتها : يا بنت الزانية أو يا بنت القحبة . فإن القحبة عبارة عن الزانية ، فإذا قال ذلك أحد من رجل أو امرأة لرجل أو لامرأة كمن قال لرجل : يا زانى ، أو قال لصبي حر : يا منكوح ... وجب عليه الحد ثمانون جلدة ، إلا أن يقيم بينه بذلك .

http://www.alsiraj.net/wasaya/html/page02.html

وعرفت "البغي" بـ"القحبة". قيل لها: قحبة لأنها كانت في الجاهلية تؤذن طلابها بقحابها، وهو سعالها2. فقد كان من عادة "قحبة" الجاهلية أن تسعل أو تتنحنح، تراود بذلك عن نفسها، وتشعر الرجل أنها حاضرة للفجور إن أراد ذلك، فيتفق معها.

و"المسافحة"، المزاناة لأن الماء يصب ضائعًا. و"السفاح" أن تقيم امرأة مع رجل على الفجور من غير تزويج صحيح، وفي الحديث: "أوله سفاح وآخره نكاح". وهي المرأة تسافح رجلًا مدة فيكون بينهما اجتماع على فجور، ثم يتزوجها بعد ذلك. وكان أهل الجاهلية إذا خطب الرجل المرأة قال: أنكحيني، فإذا أراد الزنا، قال: سافحيني3.

2 تاج العروس "1/ 421"، "قحب".

3 تاج العروس "2/ 164"، "سفح"، تفسير الطبري "5/ 14".

http://sh.rewayat2.com/tarikh/Web/3982/011.htm

كما مر، والنداء ليس بقيد، إذ الاخبار كأنت أو فلان فاسق ومحوه كذلك ما لم يخرج مخرج الدعوى. قنية (يا ديوث) هو من لا يغار على امرأته أو محرمه (يا قرطبان) مرادف ديوث بمعنى معرص (يا شارب الخمر، يا آكل الربا يا بن القحبة) فيه إيماء إلى أنه إذا شتم أصله عزر بطلب الولد كيا ابن الفاسق يا ابن الكافر، وأنه يعزر بقوله يا قحبة.

لا يقال: القحبة عرفا أفحش من الزانية لكونها تجاهر به بالأجرة. لأنا نقول: لذلك المعنى لم يحد، فإن الزنا بالأجرة يسقط الحد عنده خلافا لهما. ابن كمال، لكن صرح في المضمرات بوجوب الحد فيه. قال المصنف: وهو ظاهر (يا ابن الفاجرة، أنت مأوى اللصوص، أنت مأوى الزواني، يا من يلعب بالصبيان، يا حرام زاده) معناه المتولد من الوطئ الحرام، فيعم حالة الحيض.

لا يقال: في العرف لا يراد ذلك بل يراد ولد الزنا. لأنا نقول: كثيرا ما يراد به الخداع

Durr al-Mukhtar

http://shiaonlinelibrary.com/%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A8/982_%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%AE%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%B5%D9%83%D9%81%D9%8A-%D8%AC-%D9%A4/%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B5%D9%81%D8%AD%D8%A9_239

بالمقذوف ولو كان المقتول ظلما هو المقذوف فيحد له قاذفه ثم يقتل به قوله ذكرا أو أنثى سواء كان خالص الرقية أو كان فيه شائبة حرية وإن قل رقه قوله وإن تحرر قبل إقامة الجلد عليه أي فالمدار في جلده أربعين على رقيته حين القذف سواء استمر على ذلك حتى جلد أو تحرر قبل إقامة الجلد عليه فتحريره لا ينقله لحد الحر كما أن تحرير الأمة بعد حصول موجب عدتها لا ينقلها لعدة الحرة أما إن قذفه وهو عبد فتبين أنه حين القذف كان حرا فإنه يعمل بما تبين قوله أو زنت عينك أي العضو المخصوص وأما لو أراد بالعين الذات بتمامها كان هذا من التصريح كزني فرجك وما ذكره المصنف من الحد إذا قال له زنت عينك أي أو يدك أو رجلك هو المعتمد من المذهب هو قول ابن القاسم وقال أشهب بعدم الحد لأنه أضاف الزنا للأعضاء مع احتمال تصديق الفرج لذلك وتكذيبه واستظهره ابن عبد السلام انظر المج قوله أو قال لامرأة أجنبية زنيت مكرهة أي وكذبته قوله فيحد أي سواء قامت قرينة على أن قصده نسبتها للزنا أو لم تقم لأنه لما قدم قوله أنت زنيت عد قوله مكرهة من باب التعقيب برفع الواقع فلا يعتبر فإن قامت قرينة على أن قصده الاعتذار عنها لم يحد فإن قدم الإكراه بأن قال لها أنت أكرهت على الزنا حد إن قامت قرينة على أن قصده نسبتها للزنا فإن لم تقم بشيء أو قامت بالاعتذار فلا حد قوله وإلا حد أي ما لم يقم بينة بالإكراه وإلا فلا حد عليه قوله فإن لم يذكر لفظ الفرج أدب أي لكثرة جهات العفة ما لم تقم قرينة على القذف أو يجري العرف باستعمال ذلك في القذف وإلا حد قوله لأنه نفي نسبه أي فيحد ونه نفي نسبه ابن مرزوق انظر هذا مع صحة الرقية في العرب وأنهم كغيرهم على المشهور من صحة استرقاقهم وضرب الجزية عليهم قال ولم أر من ذكر ما أنت بحر من صيغ القذف سوى المصنف وابن الحاجب وأجاب ابن عاشر بأن كلام المصنف محمول على زمان لا يسترق فيه العرب والقذف مما يراعي فيه العرف بحسب كل زمن انظر بن قوله من كان من أولاد العرب أي الذين يتكلمون بالعربية سجية سواء كنوا عرب عرباء أو مستعربة قوله لأن القصد أنه عربي الخصال أي لأن القصد وصفه بصفات العرب وخصالها المحمودة من الجود والشجاعة لا قطع نسبه قوله على أنه قصد أي بنسبته لعلمه قوله بخلاف نسبه إلى جده أي لأبيه أو لأمه سواء كان في مشاتمة أم لا لا يحد كما قال ابن القاسم في المدونة وقال أشهب إذا نسبه لجده فإنه يحد ابن عرفة قال محمد وقول ابن القاسم أحب إلي ومحل الخلاف ما لم يعرف أنه أراد القذف مثل أن يتهم الجد بأم ذلك الولد المقذوف وإلا حد اتفاقا كما في التوضيح ا ه بن قوله فللأم القيام أي فلأم المعرض به القيام ولو عفا هو عنه فإن لم يعف حد لأم المعرض به وعوقب للمعرض به قوله إلا إذا قاله لغيره أي في حق غيره لا على جهة الخطاب قوله وكذا أي يكون من الصريح قوله أو قال لامرأة كيا قحبة أي فيحد بهذه الألفاظ الثلاثة إذا قال شيئا منها لامرأة سواء كانت زوجة له أو أجنبية منه وكذا إذا قالها لأمرد وأما إن قال ذلك لرجل كبير نظر للقرائن فإن دلت على أن القصد رميه بالابنة حد وإلا فلا هذا ما استحسنه شيخنا العدوي قوله كيا قحبة المراد بها الزانية والقحب في الأصل فساد الجوف أو السعال أطلق هذا اللفظ على الزانية

http://www.taghrib.org/library/book2.php?bi=6232&bcc=1933

All of the above are references for "accusing the chaste woman" of "being unchaste" القحبة

It's not vulgarity like the Bakris are trying to make it on youtube, they're Jahil.

(wasalam)

[Alejandro Sosa]

embarrassing

[Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki]

embarrassing

What part is embarrassing? Do you speak Arabic and understand why it is embarrassing or are you basing that off of the incorrect subtitles the nasibi put in the video?

[Alejandro Sosa]

Yes I speak Arabic. I find you and your aqeedah embarrassing and the way you try to defend people like him and that circus u attended the other day.

As I've said, it's no suprise a former Salafi does a complete 180 and practices Islam the way you do now, you know nothing about moderation and are prone to extreme beliefs.

[Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki]

Yes I speak Arabic. I find you and your aqeedah embarrassing and the way you try to defend people like him and that circus u attended the other day.

As I've said, it's no suprise a former Salafi does a complete 180 and practices Islam the way you do now, you know nothing about moderation and are prone to extreme beliefs.

"Hey, Al-Hussain (as) please be moderate, don't march and get us all killed."

"Hey, Imaam 'Ali (as) give bayat to Abu Bakr so they don't kill Fatima (as), be moderate and don't have extreme beliefs"

"Hey, Muhammad (pbuh) please don't keep talking about Allah, you're upsetting the Quraysh, be moderate and let's just make them happy so we can live in Mecca peacefully"

[Haydar Husayn]

"Hey, Al-Hussain (as) please be moderate, don't march and get us all killed."

"Hey, Imaam 'Ali (as) give bayat to Abu Bakr so they don't kill Fatima (as), be moderate and don't have extreme beliefs"

"Hey, Muhammad (pbuh) please don't keep talking about Allah, you're upsetting the Quraysh, be moderate and let's just make them happy so we can live in Mecca peacefully"

Nahjul Balagha, Saying 108

We, Ahlul Bayt (chosen descendants of the Holy Prophet), hold such central and balancing position in religion that those who are deficient in understanding and acting upon its principles, will have to come to us for reformation, and those who are overdoing it have got to learn moderation from us.

Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 126

Certainly you are the most evil of all persons and are those whom Satan has put on his lines and thrown out into his wayless land. With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness.

The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah's hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf.

[Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki]

Nahjul Balagha, Saying 108

We, Ahlul Bayt (chosen descendants of the Holy Prophet), hold such central and balancing position in religion that those who are deficient in understanding and acting upon its principles, will have to come to us for reformation, and those who are overdoing it have got to learn moderation from us.

Nahjul Balagha, Sermon 126

Certainly you are the most evil of all persons and are those whom Satan has put on his lines and thrown out into his wayless land. With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness.

The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah's hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf.

Shall we unite on falsehood?

Shall I lie to myself and to others around me?

We must become Sunni or they will hate us, and being Sunni then Salafi hate us, and being Hanifi then Maliki hate us, etc...

Let's just follow Haqq and politely invite people to it, which is what Sheikh Yasser is doing, which is all that any of my posts have been defending.

Shall we pray to the Cross of Jesus to please the Christians? Shall we praise Abu Bakr, Umar, Aisha, and follow their Sunnah to please the Bakris? Shall we call ourselves Sunni and reject Shi'a ahadith? Shall we fold our arms and criticize everyone who doesn't for being like Shi'a? Shall we call anyone who makes pilgrimage to any Shrine (Karbala for example) a Mushrik and Kafir? Shall we ignore Fatima Zahra (as)'s pain and say she never was angry at Abu Bakr, say she never was killed, say she never cursed them in her salat? Shall we say Yazeed was correct? Shall we say it was only a matter of opinion?

Shall I lay my face on the dirt so that the people who are mistaken may step on my neck more easily? Shall I send my Children to Bakri schools and teach them how great Abu Bakr was so that they will grow up in the majority, referring to Shi'a as Rafidhi Mushriks? Shall I prefer to kiss the feet of Muawiya than hold the head of Hussain (as)? Shall I prefer to believe in the bad akhlaq of Muhammad (pbuh) rather than the bad akhlaq of the Sahabah? Shall I prefer to believe in the mistakes of Muhammad (pbuh) rather than the mistakes of Sahabah? Shall I prefer to see everyone happy in misguidance and falsehood than struggling for haqq?

Please tell me if I must do these things, because I prefer death to slavery.

[Haydar Husayn]

Shall we unite on falsehood?

Shall I lie to myself and to others around me?

We must become Sunni or they will hate us, and being Sunni then Salafi hate us, and being Hanifi then Maliki hate us, etc...

Let's just follow Haqq and politely invite people to it, which is what Sheikh Yasser is doing, which is all that any of my posts have been defending.

Shall we pray to the Cross of Jesus to please the Christians? Shall we praise Abu Bakr, Umar, Aisha, and follow their Sunnah to please the Bakris? Shall we call ourselves Sunni and reject Shi'a ahadith? Shall we fold our arms and criticize everyone who doesn't for being like Shi'a? Shall we call anyone who makes pilgrimage to any Shrine (Karbala for example) a Mushrik and Kafir? Shall we ignore Fatima Zahra (as)'s pain and say she never was angry at Abu Bakr, say she never was killed, say she never cursed them in her salat? Shall we say Yazeed was correct? Shall we say it was only a matter of opinion?

Shall I lay my face on the dirt so that the people who are mistaken may step on my neck more easily? Shall I send my Children to Bakri schools and teach them how great Abu Bakr was so that they will grow up in the majority, referring to Shi'a as Rafidhi Mushriks? Shall I prefer to kiss the feet of Muawiya than hold the head of Hussain (as)? Shall I prefer to believe in the bad akhlaq of Muhammad (pbuh) rather than the bad akhlaq of the Sahabah? Shall I prefer to believe in the mistakes of Muhammad (pbuh) rather than the mistakes of Sahabah? Shall I prefer to see everyone happy in misguidance and falsehood than struggling for haqq?

Please tell me if I must do these things, because I prefer death to slavery.

What on earth are you talking about? None of us do any of that, but we aren't jumping around like morons dressed up as Umar either, are we? Like the Imam (as) said, it's about the middle course. Nobody is talking about uniting with Sunnis or Christians here.

[Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki]

What on earth are you talking about? None of us do any of that, but we aren't jumping around like morons dressed up as Umar either, are we? Like the Imam (as) said, it's about the middle course. Nobody is talking about uniting with Sunnis or Christians here.

And who is Umar?

Who has to respect Umar?

Shall we respect Hitler because it will upset the Klu Klux Klan if we say anything against him?

[MysticKnight]

And who is Umar?

Who has to respect Umar?

Shall we respect Hitler because it will upset the Klu Klux Klan if we say anything against him?

I'm wondering what argument would you pose that non-Muslims should not be disrespectful towards Mohammad, like making bad comics about him, or making a bad cartoon about him?

[Haydar Husayn]

And who is Umar?

Who has to respect Umar?

Shall we respect Hitler because it will upset the Klu Klux Klan if we say anything against him?

It's not about respecting him, it's about behaving in a manner befitting of followers of the Ahulbayt (as). If you want to know my views on Umar and co, read this thread: http://www.shiachat....-on-evil-doers/

I'm not pro-Sunni, or pro-Umar, I'm anti-stupid behaviour that serves no good purpose other than to allowed some 'Shias' to enjoy themselves, with complete disregard for the bigger picture or the higher values of their religion.

I really can't stand the moronic and childish behaviour all too many Shias regularly demonstrate. How about we all start living up to the teachings of our Prophet (pbuh) and Imams (as)? I seriously doubt they would approve of the kind of nonsense we see in those videos, which is purely self-indulgent.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Haydar Husayn

[Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki]

It's not about respecting him, it's about behaving in a manner befitting of followers of the Ahulbayt (as). If you want to know my views on Umar and co, read this thread: http://www.shiachat....-on-evil-doers/ I'm not pro-Sunni, or pro-Umar, I'm anti-stupid behaviour that serves no good purpose other than to allowed some 'Shias' to enjoy themselves, with complete disregard for the bigger picture or the higher values of their religion. I really can't stand the moronic and childish behaviour all too many Shias regularly demonstrate. How about we all start living up to the teachings of our Prophet (pbuh) and Imams (as)? I seriously doubt they would approve of the kind of nonsense we see in those videos, which is purely self-indulgent.

Do you have a source to prove your opinion?

[Alejandro Sosa]

"Hey, Al-Hussain (as) please be moderate, don't march and get us all killed."

"Hey, Imaam 'Ali (as) give bayat to Abu Bakr so they don't kill Fatima (as), be moderate and don't have extreme beliefs"

"Hey, Muhammad (pbuh) please don't keep talking about Allah, you're upsetting the Quraysh, be moderate and let's just make them happy so we can live in Mecca peacefully"

Yeah. you're completely and deliberately misunderstanding what I said. You're not able to act normally because you clearly have issues...from hardcore Salafi to hardcore Shia..something's not working right there

What on earth are you talking about? None of us do any of that, but we aren't jumping around like morons dressed up as Umar either, are we? Like the Imam (as) said, it's about the middle course. Nobody is talking about uniting with Sunnis or Christians here.

Basically.

Since you're 'head researcher' at Habib's institute Dawod, post proof to back up your view that th Nabi (sawa) or Imams (as) would endorse the little circus party you had the other day.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Alf

[lalala123]

I'm not pro-Sunni, or pro-Umar, I'm anti-stupid behaviour that serves no good purpose other than to allowed some 'Shias' to enjoy themselves, with complete disregard for the bigger picture or the higher values of their religion.

I really can't stand the moronic and childish behaviour all too many Shias regularly demonstrate. How about we all start living up to the teachings of our Prophet (pbuh) and Imams (as)? I seriously doubt they would approve of the kind of nonsense we see in those videos, which is purely self-indulgent.

You should try it...it's actually quite fun.

[Haydar Husayn]

You should try it...it's actually quite fun.

I'd rather maintain my dignity.

[Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki]

I'd rather maintain my dignity.

Dignity for who?

What gives dignity before Allah may bring humiliation and disgrace before humans.

For example, punishments in Shar'iah (they say you're barbaric morons), marrying multiple wives (they say you're pervert pedophiles), throwing stones at Shaytan during Hajj (they say you're delusional), circling the Ka'aba (they say you're pagan moon worshipers), praying 5 times a day (they say you're excessive and brainwashed)...

Not to mention MANY ayats of Qur'an are the source of much criticism and attack.

[Haydar Husayn]

Dignity for who?

What gives dignity before Allah may bring humiliation and disgrace before humans.

For example, punishments in Shar'iah (they say you're barbaric morons), marrying multiple wives (they say you're pervert pedophiles), throwing stones at Shaytan during Hajj (they say you're delusional), circling the Ka'aba (they say you're pagan moon worshipers), praying 5 times a day (they say you're excessive and brainwashed)...

Not to mention MANY ayats of Qur'an are the source of much criticism and attack.

You sound like those people that defend tatbir, who try to justify it by making invalid comparison with aspects of shariah.

Become an ornament for us, do not be a disgrace for us. (Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (as))

[Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki]

You sound like those people that defend tatbir, who try to justify it by making invalid comparison with aspects of shariah.

Become an ornament for us, do not be a disgrace for us. (Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (as))

You're avoiding the question.

"Disgrace" is relative.

As I said in the above, simply following our religion causes us disgrace among billions of people bro. So you say we should abandon Islam to not disgrace the `Aimmah (as) ?

Of course you aren't saying that.

So let's narrow down the problem instead of claiming that something we do is a disgrace, when disgrace is relative.

We're doing Tabaraa, something which is part of our deen. Problem?

[Haydar Husayn]

You're avoiding the question.

"Disgrace" is relative.

As I said in the above, simply following our religion causes us disgrace among billions of people bro. So you say we should abandon Islam to not disgrace the `Aimmah (as) ?

Of course you aren't saying that.

So let's narrow down the problem instead of claiming that something we do is a disgrace, when disgrace is relative.

We're doing Tabaraa, something which is part of our deen. Problem?

Where in our deen does it say to do public 'tabarra' of this kind? If you want to do tabarra, do it in your qunoot. Our religious practice is for Allah, not for show.

[Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki]

http://www.shiachat....ed-on-taqiyyah/

Where in our deen does it say to do public 'tabarra' of this kind? If you want to do tabarra, do it in your qunoot. Our religious practice is for Allah, not for show.

That's not true, the whole purpose of Tawalla and Tabaraa is to show true Islam.

When a non-Muslims looks at people who he thinks are Muslim, he will be confused. It isn't until he sees a true practicing Muslim (through Tawalla) that he says "Oh hey they're not all bad" and it isn't until he sees a true practicing Muslim (through Tabaraa) that he says "Oh and those other guys I thought were crazy aren't even Muslim"