Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

What Causes Homosexuality?

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

What do you think, what is the root cause of homosexuality in society?

Remember societies are different, there are oppressive societies and cultures such as Saudi Arabia, Wahabi, Salafi cultures of over separation of genders and so on. And then there is ultra feminist, man hater cultures of the West.

Please do not comment on Gender Identity Crisis (the disease) since I want to limit this topic only to probing the causes of homosexuality (the crime).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

What do you think, what is the root cause of homosexuality in society?

Remember societies are different, there are oppressive societies and cultures such as Saudi Arabia, Wahabi, Salafi cultures of over separation of genders and so on. And then there is ultra feminist, man hater cultures of the West.

Please do not comment on Gender Identity Crisis (the disease) since I want to limit this topic only to probing the causes of homosexuality (the crime).

Imam sadiq a.s said: iblees was the first one to submit to a man and incited him to have sex.

Can't remember the reference probably uyoon akhbaar e reza a.s

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matriarchy is also partly to blame for homosexuality in society.

In western societies specially, notice how women are becoming more manly and men are becoming more womanly. Society and norms also want women to act and dress like men to show tough and forces men to act false soft to be she manly.

Remember how our dear Prophet (pbuh) forbade men to not wear women like clothes and women to not wear like men like clothes, because Islam intends to preserve proper gender roles in societies.

The reason I wrote above implies mostly western and indo/pak cultures and does not apply to Salafi/wahabi cultures of ME. Reasons for them being gay are different.

But in context of "soft" societies of West and East/South Asia, this problem with matriarchy does produce gender role confusion.

Some examples of matriarchy from our immediate vicinity which you can observe daily, and a slight extremism in this would cause homosexuality and gayism between men and women.

Examples:

1. Notice how you see practicing bearded men with non-hijab fashionable wives. Ever wonder what happened there? A man who prays 3 times, 5 salat, and his wife is this non hijaban cheering social butterfly? This womanly man is a slight pushover towards gayism.

2. You mostly see in the family of multiple female siblings, how one among many is overly male acting. She is a slight pushover.

There are many other examples where society creates this stigma on men when they want to act like men and and stigmatize women when they want to act feminine and hence create this wrong attraction.

I know brother alimohamad40 is going to love this, but our over zealous objection on muta, polygyny, and such also stems from this same Western and Indo matriarchical culture which stigmatizes men for acting like a man.

Again I request to kindly do not make this is a pro or anti muta thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are two different causes for two different types.

The first type, is due to prohibiting the lawful, the suppression of the desire and the lack of alternatives (like the church). This occurs in the segregated countries where the men do not have access to women. And it also happens in the non-segregated countries when a man is repeatedly rejected by women (for whatever reason), he starts to turn to men. This is also what you see happening in prisons.

The second type, is due to a wasting disease. It occurs when there is a culture of excess present where the people keep trying new things to please their desire, and pleasing their desire becomes more difficult as they need to try ever more perverted things. This is like the big drug gang leaders in places like Mexico who have become bored with normal things like having women and they turn to raping and killing women to get more pleasure. These people try out different perversions like pedophilia, incest, gays, etc. It is the excess in sampling everything and the extreme dwelling in the self desire. The second type is the worst type.

In some cases like the example of qaum lut, the act of homosexuality is used as a form of degradation, to humiliate others. The perpetrators of the crime seek to attack the masculinity of the victim, by turning him into a 'woman' by raping him. This was one of the reasons for the gays in qaum lut, there were also other reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

Why is everyone so keen to rule out biological factors regarding sexuality? i dont get it, why would that be such a problem for you? if there is no biological determinant regarding sexuality then that means that sexuality is a choice, and if sexuality is a choice, i'd like to know at what age you fella's chose to fancy women over men?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why is everyone so keen to rule out biological factors regarding sexuality? i dont get it, why would that be such a problem for you? if there is no biological determinant regarding sexuality then that means that sexuality is a choice, and if sexuality is a choice, i'd like to know at what age you fella's chose to fancy women over men?

Please do not comment on Gender Identity Crisis (the disease) since I want to limit this topic only to probing the causes of homosexuality (the crime). What you are saying, the biological issues, is gender identity crisis and we are not talking about this in the thread. We are talking aout the causes of criminal/sinful homosexual act.

On a lighter side, I started fancying women was when I was 2 yrs old. Aunties did not used to hold me, they used to say ouch (in shrill voice), he winks at us.... LoL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

I don't know what causes it....but check out this link, some studies show that the MRI results are quite different from heterosexual people

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0000762

The Same things have been found in mris of alcoholics, drug addicts, etc. Longitudinal studies have also shown gradual increase and decrease over time. So the structure of our brains is Not fixed and our actions have a profound effect on the structure of our brain and which areas are more or less active. Its a two way street, the structure of our brain effects our actions and our actions also effect the structure of our brain. Since we can choose our actions, it also means that we can choose the structure of our brain, according to modern scientific research. So even If They someday find a 'gay Gene' it would Not Provence anything except that There are certain people who are predisposed to that sin, and that is There Test from Allah(swa).

Everyone has their Tests and their issues. Each Test and each issue could potentially lead that Person to hellfire If They continue to Do it and disobey Allah(swa) as their neurons rewire themselves and make this Action more likely for then in the Future. I have said this before that i had a huge Problem controlling my temper when i was growing up. I lost count of all the fist fights i got into at school and I was expelled from 3 different schools for fighting. If i would have let my Anger go unchecked and Not tried to overcome it im sure that i would have Ended up in jail or hellfire or both. So i might have had a genetic Disposition for that but i worked on the issue with the help of Allah(swa) and it is not a big Problem for me now. It was a different Test but the outcome would have been the Same.

Edited by Abu Hadi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Same things have been found in mris of alcoholics, drug addicts, etc. Longitudinal studies have also shown gradual increase and decrease over time. So the structure of our brains is Not fixed and our actions have a profound effect on the structure of our brain and which areas are more or less active. Its a two way street, the structure of our brain effects our actions and our actions also effect the structure of our brain. Since we can choose our actions, it also means that we can choose the structure of our brain, according to modern scientific research. So even If They someday find a 'gay Gene' it would Not Provence anything except that There are certain people who are predisposed to that sin, and that is There Test from Allah(swa).

Everyone has their Tests and their issues. Each Test and each issue could potentially lead that Person to hellfire If They continue to Do it and disobey Allah(swa) as their neurons rewire themselves and make this Action more likely for then in the Future. I have said this before that i had a huge Problem controlling my temper when i was growing up. I lost count of all the fist fights i got into at school and I was expelled from 3 different schools for fighting. If i would have let my Anger go unchecked and Not tried to overcome it im sure that i would have Ended up in jail or hellfire or both. So i might have had a genetic Disposition for that but i worked on the issue with the help of Allah(swa) and it is not a big Problem for me now. It was a different Test but the outcome would have been the Same.

This is a bit off topic, but since you brought up genetic disposition, have you ever noticed how alcoholism or addiction runs in families? I have even heard of adopted people being addicted to drugs, then they find their birth parents only to find out that they birth parents were alcoholics...or worse crack heads. Sorry OP for hijacking the topic...I will stop now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow as if Satan wasn't enough, God has to forbid man from an urge that is imprinted in his genome.

Most of the evidence points to psychological factors guys, just leave it at that.

How about everyone admit that they really don't know what causes it....instead of going into long elaborate explanations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

Why is everyone so keen to rule out biological factors regarding sexuality? i dont get it, why would that be such a problem for you? if there is no biological determinant regarding sexuality then that means that sexuality is a choice, and if sexuality is a choice, i'd like to know at what age you fella's chose to fancy women over men?

The worship of a god has also been considered, from an anthropological perspective (and I agree with this assertion) the adoration of the emotional and characteristic trait said god represents. For example, by our worshiping a Merciful and Compassionate deity, as we understand the meaning of Mercy and Compassion, we are also expressing adoration the characteristics of Mercy and Compassion themselves, irrespective of any deity. By our coming to adore the qualities of Mercy and Compassion before hand, we also come to adore and worship a deity whom embodies their traits and we feel is the source of them as we see in ourselves. Likewise, the pagan peoples worshiped gods of the sun, moon, trees, war, the hunt, etc. due to their embodying characteristics of themselves or the world they already experienced and adored regardless. So the worship of gods and goddesses is just the extension of a present adoration for some trait the worshipers find in the world or universe and its inhabitants and those who do not worship a god may come to worship and venerate one who embodies a characteristic/trait they already valued regardless of whether there was a deity who embodied it.

What I'm saying here with this analogy is that sexuality is a form of adoration of particular characteristics of the world or certain individuals all the same. In fact, sexuality itself is essentially an act of worship for certain world religions. Whatever traits of individuals or the world a person values may become sexually arousing to an individual based on the extent and direction the adoration goes. For example, people who have these particular fetishes value a certain cultural, individual, or physical trait of the world for various reasons may develop a sexual fetish pertaining to these things over time so as to better show an adoration, creating a "burnt" sexual desire for these things. A person who has sex with animals we can obviously say likely enjoys the company of animals and places a certain value on them of which sexuality becomes an expression of.

So then either homosexuality is a fetish or it is a genetic predisposition which cannot be abstained from by a matter of free will. But as you said, if homosexuality is a fetish, then what does this mean for heterosexuality or any other kind of sexuality for that matter?

The problem with the genetic disposition theory is that it basically says "Homosexuals can't help themselves, therefore society should accommodate for them instead of oppressing them or making them repress themselves." Some people are perfectly willing to accept this. However, there is one problem that is overlooked. What about other forms of sexuality that are otherwise considered "social taboos" by many people, including many many homosexuals themselves, such as bestiality, necrophilia, the desire to sleep with pre-pubescant children, etc? There is so much pressure rising these days to accept and welcome homosexuality in one's society under the assertion that "their body chemistry is different, their biology is different, homosexuality is as biological as someone being black or white," but where is the same sympathy and rights pushing being shown to people who have sex with dead people, animals, under aged children, etc. why is nobody really saying "Hey, they can't help it if they get off screwing dead corpses, leave them alone! And you don't know if the dead person would have wanted to get [Edited Out]ed or not. The body's dead, why are you so attached to 'protecting' dead body" There's nobody, at least whom anyone is giving their time to listen to, doing this and anyone whose doing it is seen as sick and wrong, not as a defender of civil rights. So what makes homosexuality special, why should we accommodate our society to homosexuality and bisexuality anymore than those "other sexual fetishes?" By what authority does one say "Oh homosexuals can't help themselves, but necrophiliacs can?"

I guarantee if you do MRI on necrophiliacs, you'll see biological differences between them and heterosexual, non-necrophilac men and women too. Just as user Abu Hadi stated:

The Same things have been found in mris of alcoholics, drug addicts, etc. Longitudinal studies have also shown gradual increase and decrease over time. So the structure of our brains is Not fixed and our actions have a profound effect on the structure of our brain and which areas are more or less active. Its a two way street, the structure of our brain effects our actions and our actions also effect the structure of our brain. Since we can choose our actions, it also means that we can choose the structure of our brain, according to modern scientific research.

There has never been discovery of any real concrete evidence that suggests that homosexuality is wholly genetic and that certain individuals cannot be physically expected to abstain from homosexuality. None. Genetic research suggests the possibility due to certain biological differences between the two groups, but these genetic differences, and whatever dispositions they may seem to give an individual, are just as much affected by personal choices as they are by birth and incubation in the womb as Abu Hadi pointed out above. If all that makes a person homosexual, for example, is just low levels of testosterone or estrogen, then all it takes to cure the world of homosexuality is to better influence the testosterone or estrogen of a person either in or out of the womb in the same way that one may give their child more calcium in their diet to prevent weak bones or may get their child braces to prevent to keep their teeth straight.

However, we cannot ignore the influence that our biology has on our personal choices anymore than our psychological makeup does, but then again biology greatly influences psychology, and thus our psychological make-up, though not wholly determined by the bodies we are born with, is not wholly separate and when we get into more spiritual matters, we could say that each individual is born with different character traits instilled in their soul (and thus their mind) by God himself and thus our bodies, being shells over our souls, is not only affected by the choices our spirit makes (as mentioned above) but is also formed in accordance to "fit over" one might say the "shape" of our spirit even before we have made our first choice in this world. So then the question for us as Muslims is: does God create certain men and women incapable of choosing to not partake in homosexuality? The scientific evidence for such an idea is lacking, as is the reasoning for it. The only evidence we have is a very minor difference in the physiology between homosexuals and heterosexuals that can't be said to be evidence of some sort of "gay gene" or said to not be the result of the partaking in homosexuality itself. It'd be like if one got together a group of white punk rock kids and group of black kids who listen to rap music and tried to use that as evidence that whites are genetically disposed to like punk rock and if they don't they are in denial and went even further to do an MRI between the two groups and use the results as proof. True certain factors may make certain people more likely to do this behavior over that behavior, but we can't say that just because they don't do what we expect them to do that they are "repressing their true nature," based on research results that never explicitly said they were genetically born to partake in this or that behavior. lol

However, there are two things we may be overlooking that can present a compromise between the recent genetic research and our concept free will:

1. Men and Women are born neither heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual, but rather are born asexual and it is simply life and choices made that steadily piece together a sexual orientation. In other words, biology does not determine sexuality of any kind. Man only develops a sexual orientation upon choosing to partake in sexuality, should he choose not to partake, he does not develop one. Basically, THERE IS NO EMBEDDED SEXUAL INSTINCT. God does not make anyone biologically predisposed toward any sexual orientation, not even heterosexuality.

2. If there is no sexual instinct, then why do men and women, both heterosexual and homosexual, have these seemingly overbearing feelings they can't control, especially upon reaching puberty? Why is it that some men seem to not able to find satisfaction in sexuality with a woman but feel satisfied and comfortable with a man? This answer is rather simple. When a young boy begins to act out in school to the point where becomes very disobedient and starts trouble, what do people sometimes say? "Oh, he wouldn't be doing this if we could give him a proper outlet to express his frustrations or for him to let out his pent up anger." Basically the boy acts out in the said manner due to the lack of a proper outlet in his surroundings for which he may express these emotions. Sexuality is more often than not, such an outlet for people and should certain people that have these pent up emotions be given a proper and satisfying outlet besides sexuality to express them, they would stop turning to sexuality for these needs to be met. These particular emotions can either be present in the person from birth or developed over time in the course of life, but are not sexual in nature, but only capable of being expressed through sexuality as well as numerous other non-sexual means.

I adhere to these two principles, that sexual instinct is indeed non-existent as long as a person does not allow it to develop and that the emotional desires that humans express through sexuality, either heterosexual or homosexual, are not wholly dependent on sexuality to be expressed and that should a person find different outlets that satisfy these emotional desires, the man or woman in question can eliminate sexual desire completely from their heart, so long as they continue to not feel any incessant need to engage in it due to being in a state of satisfaction.

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Zahratul_Islam

Ahhhhh.. homosexuality threads on shiachat: because who doesn't like reading about the root causes of homosexuality as explained by individuals who are in no shape, way, or form qualified to explain it.

:dry:

Edited by Zahratul_Islam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Veteran Member

Ahhhhh.. homosexuality threads on shiachat: because who doesn't like reading about the root causes of homosexuality as explained by individuals who are in no shape, way, or form qualified to explain it.

:dry:

by that logic, we probably shouldn't discuss anything on this site.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. Men and Women are born neither heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual, but rather are born asexual and it is simply life and choices made that steadily piece together a sexual orientation. In other words, biology does not determine sexuality of any kind. Man only develops a sexual orientation upon choosing to partake in sexuality, should he choose not to partake, he does not develop one. Basically, THERE IS NO EMBEDDED SEXUAL INSTINCT. God does not make anyone biologically predisposed toward any sexual orientation, not even heterosexuality.

Im not so sure thats true. What evidence do you have?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Zahratul_Islam

by that logic, we probably shouldn't discuss anything on this site.

No dear, by that logic we should stick to discussing things we actually understand..

unless you don't understand anything, in which case your interpretation is spot on :P

Edited by Zahratul_Islam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Zahratul_Islam

To make the forum interesting I think we should discuss anything we want since there are many things in the world that no one person in this world truly understands, including the most qualified scientists and scholars. However when we present our theory we should realize that it is usually only a theory and others will have a different theory. The problem lies when certain zealots on the forum attack someone for having a different theory and resort to calling that person evil, apostate, kafir, stupid, or worse.

It is more than just a suggestion on your part, that is actually the current policy.

It would be nice if people from both camps didn't talk past each other. My time on sc has taught me that even the most liberal humanist/intellectual wannabes can be close minded and petty when it comes to dialogue, let alone your zealous cyber imams.

Edited by Zahratul_Islam
Link to comment
Share on other sites

A very nice article about one of the many causes of homosexuality in Western and Asian societies. A must read for all married or halal sexually active adults. There are some harsh words and the guy who wrote it was not really politically correct all the time, but he is not telling you any lies in the article either.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=178332485559192

Warning *** Read "astaghfirullah" before opening this. And do not stare at the sinful picture for long. Seriously.

<< bracing myself for a barrage of attacks from some of SC members, my apologies in advance if I ruffle some sensitivities. I also do not agree with the presentation in the article >>

Edited by Waiting for HIM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

:sick: :sick: :sick:

Seriously... So you guys did not find any lessons in the article? Wouldn't you consider all our Aimah (as) to be extremely masculine and hence in their actions teaching us not to be this eunuch looking men of western feminism.

I've read tons of Hadith basically alluding to the same fact which was told in this article.

Do not read this article as supporting polygyny etc., read the real message, that is men should be more masculine, and women should be more feminine. Hadith like not wearing bisexual clothes, not spending so much time with opposite sex, men should not resemble women by shaving, not listen to opposite sex advice on matters pertaining to the certain circumstances and so on...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

a lot of it is down to diet, eg soya products turn testosterone (if you are a man) into oestrogen, and vice versa if you are a girl

Remember the plastic that was leaking chemicals a while back? Supposedly the leaking chemicals from the plastic convert into estrogen in the human body. There are many other additives, hormones, medications, and chemicals added to the food, and not only packaged food, but meat and vegetables too......this contamination has gotten progressively worse over the years all in the name of the all might dollar.

I even see the difference with my own eyes by when I'm in Lebanon. The men (lebanese) who were born and raised in the U.S. are completely different than the men who grew up in Lebanon (I mean no offense to anyone, I am only stating my observation). I am not saying Lebanon is free of pollution or contamination....but I don't think estrogen is leaking into everything causing the men to act feminine.

Edited by ImAli
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I forgot to add in my last post that I am just referring to my personal observations, and I don't know if the food additives and chemicals could possibly be causing an increase in homosexuality or not.

Homosexuality has always existed, but today people are encouraged instead of discouraged to indulge in homosexual activities.....and from what I understand, it is even the "cool" thing to do in some circles. So more than likely this is what makes it appear to be more common than before.

Edited by ImAli
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Homosexuality has always existed, but today people are encouraged instead of discouraged to indulge in homosexual activities.....and from what I understand, it is even the "cool" thing to do in some circles.

Cool thing - yuck...

More like "frozen cool things" dropping from the skies from the passenger plane hynies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cool thing - yuck...

More like "frozen cool things" dropping from the skies from the passenger plane hynies.

No seriously.....a few years ago I heard about junior high girls experimenting in this sort of behavior because it is supposedly the "in" thing to do. :sick:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

It is more than just a suggestion on your part, that is actually the current policy.

It would be nice if people from both camps didn't talk past each other. My time on sc has taught me that even the most liberal humanist/intellectual wannabes can be close minded and petty when it comes to dialogue, let alone your zealous cyber imams.

With all due respect, your original statement was somewhat closed minded. Shiachat, if not anything else, is a platform to discuss and share ideas. It is not up to us to determine who has an understanding of what and the depth of that understanding. Humans are just too diverse for these kinds of assumptions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...