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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Npurhan, Startgirl and other trigger happy respected sisters,

It was just a pun and was intended for purely entertainment reasons.

Read my previous posts, I'm a big time proponent of mutah but also an even bigger time proponent of not using it to be next Shia playboy.

Like I said, I jokingly destroyed a very wonderful post by my mutah comment.

Let's carry on the original discussion and see if we could help the brother infected by a "CCTV syndrome" better half!

As far as not liking mutah, I at least remember sister Nourhan agreeing with me that just like jihad is misused, mutah is misused too. Neither mutah is bad nor jihad is. Both are commandments of Allah and we "must" accept them as part of Quran. We should discourage those who abuse these two wonderful commandments of Allah سبحانه وتعالى.

On a serious note, here is a practical advice in my opinion:

Some people are more jittery than others when they are newly married. This could be due to their past experiences or observations in their close proximity.

Since you are recently married, go ahead and do shun all the contacts with the females around you, build the trust in her eyes that you are not a flirt, show her that her opinions and concerns value a lot in your eyes. She eventually would cease to become over possessive and would loosen the noose around you. ;)

I say it as a practical advice because one of my female cousins recently went through exactly this situation and her husband handled it very well. 3 years down the marriage, she is much more secure and less suspicious. In the beginning it was harder for him to even call his female cousins and it was a freakistan for him.

Our family elders had a very positive role in all this, since they kept things under control for him till she became mature enough to handle her unfounded concerns.

Needs patience but things work out for you inshAllah. Make sure elders/friends on both sides are supportive. Intention here should be to make the marriage work and not a breakup, God forbid.

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Exactly. And I am amused at the suggestion of churning out ahadith, as if it would make the problem go away.

Who said that? It could simply help someone to get a different perspective on things.

What I find amusing is the casual dismissing of ahadith that is so frequent on this site. People would rather turn to a social sciences book than a book of ahadith on an issue.

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Who said that? It could simply help someone to get a different perspective on things.

What I find amusing is the casual dismissing of ahadith that is so frequent on this site. People would rather turn to a social sciences book than a book of ahadith on an issue.

Because the hadith you quoted offered no practical help

what

so

ever.

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Because the hadith you quoted offered no practical help

what

so

ever.

I don't know why you have to post in that fashion. What good does it serve?

Anyway, I disagree. If someone seeks to live their life according to Islam, then reading ahadith can always help them to reevaluate their behaviour. I never claimed it was some kind of magical cure, just that it is something a person may like to take into consideration. Of course, I am going by the assumption that the person in question is actually trying to live their life according to Islamic teachings. If they are the typical 'pick and choose' type of Muslim, then yeah, this will mostly likely not make the slightest difference, and may even enrage them. It's up to the brother to judge.

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Because the hadith you quoted offered no practical help

what

so

ever.

The point.

But the technical literalists wouldn't see that. The point isn't to get a "different perspective" on supposed wifely jealousy. It is to get to the meat of the problem, or the insecurity, or whatever it is, and address it through communication.

Haydar, is there a hadith about the importance of communicating with your wife? We might have to declare that as unIslamic if there isn't.

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The point.

But the technical literalists wouldn't see that. The point isn't to get a "different perspective" on supposed wifely jealousy. It is to get to the meat of the problem, or the insecurity, or whatever it is, and address it through communication.

Haydar, is there a hadith about the importance of communicating with your wife? We might have to declare that as unIslamic if there isn't.

Marbles, please show me where I said that he shouldn't try to communicate with his wife? My post in fact started with advising him to compromise with her.

Some of you would be better off not trying to read things into my posts that aren't there. Maybe then there would be less misunderstandings. Just because I choose to emphasise one particular point, or don't mention something that I know other people are going to mention anyway (or have already mentioned), that does not mean that I am not in favour of those other approaches or that I am suggesting only following what I say. I am simply throwing something out there that could perhaps be of use. Nothing more.

I get the feeling schools should start teaching basic logic, because clearly this is a huge issue with people these days. Or maybe it's just a reading comprehension problem? Hard to tell.

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I don't know why you have to post in that fashion. What good does it serve?

Anyway, I disagree. If someone seeks to live their life according to Islam, then reading ahadith can always help them to reevaluate their behaviour. I never claimed it was some kind of magical cure, just that it is something a person may like to take into consideration. Of course, I am going by the assumption that the person in question is actually trying to live their life according to Islamic teachings. If they are the typical 'pick and choose' type of Muslim, then yeah, this will mostly likely not make the slightest difference, and may even enrage them. It's up to the brother to judge.

What good did YOUR post do? so heres Hayder Husayn, marriage counsellor. The young couple turn up, give him a general sketch of the problem. He sits. Ponders. 'Aha!'. Stands for his delivery:

'Jealousy of women is hasad and hasad is the root of kufr. Next!'

And all is well.

Is this the world you live in? because thats how it comes across.

Telling someone that jealousy is destructive doesnt in any well help them understand their jealousy or figure out how to do anything about it.

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What good did YOUR post do? so heres Hayder Husayn, marriage counsellor. The young couple turn up, give him a general sketch of the problem. He sits. Ponders. 'Aha!'. Stands for his delivery:

'Jealousy of women is hasad and hasad is the root of kufr. Next!'

And all is well.

Is this the world you live in? because thats how it comes across.

Telling someone that jealousy is destructive doesnt in any well help them understand their jealousy or figure out how to do anything about it.

Ok fine. It's obviously pointless trying to find any kind of understanding with you since you want to give me no benefit of the doubt, and take every opportunity to insult me.

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What good did YOUR post do? so heres Hayder Husayn, marriage counsellor. The young couple turn up, give him a general sketch of the problem. He sits. Ponders. 'Aha!'. Stands for his delivery:

'Jealousy of women is hasad and hasad is the root of kufr. Next!'

And all is well.

Is this the world you live in? because thats how it comes across.

Telling someone that jealousy is destructive doesnt in any well help them understand their jealousy or figure out how to do anything about it.

You could try looking at it another way, if you went to the Imam (a) and said my wife has a jealousy problem, and the Imam says that jealousy is kufr, would you thenturn around and say "that doesn't solve anything" or would you take it that the words of the Imam are like the words of Allah, and so try to change your behaviour?

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You could try looking at it another way, if you went to the Imam (a) and said my wife has a jealousy problem, and the Imam says that jealousy is kufr, would you thenturn around and say "that doesn't solve anything" or would you take it that the words of the Imam are like the words of Allah, and so try to change your behaviour?

If thats the answer i got i would ask a different question.

Ok fine. It's obviously pointless trying to find any kind of understanding with you since you want to give me no benefit of the doubt, and take every opportunity to insult me.

I wasnt trying to insult you, i was exploring a new way of communicating to you how ridiculously simply you approach things sometimes. The hadith doesnt help, if anything, it is a very negative and unhelpful way to approach someone who may experiencing a lot of distress that they dont understand or know how to control.

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Marbles, please show me where I said that he shouldn't try to communicate with his wife? My post in fact started with advising him to compromise with her.

Some of you would be better off not trying to read things into my posts that aren't there. Maybe then there would be less misunderstandings. Just because I choose to emphasise one particular point, or don't mention something that I know other people are going to mention anyway (or have already mentioned), that does not mean that I am not in favour of those other approaches or that I am suggesting only following what I say. I am simply throwing something out there that could perhaps be of use. Nothing more.

I get the feeling schools should start teaching basic logic, because clearly this is a huge issue with people these days. Or maybe it's just a reading comprehension problem? Hard to tell.

It will only be of use to people who take some notice of their Imam's (as) words. To others, it wont be of any help.

What

So

Ever.

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In my experience people do not enjoy jealousy, it is very very destructive emotion and you can damage yourself with it as much as you damage those around you. In my experience it comes from strong feelings of fear and when people act on jealousy they are often trying to avert imagined future pain. It usually happens when people feel threatened and can be very ingrained, almost an overwhelming automatic response. This is not an easy thing to treat.

It will only be of use to people who take some notice of their Imam's (as) words. To others, it wont be of any help.

What

So

Ever.

Theres more than one kind of ignorance.

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I wasnt trying to insult you, i was exploring a new way of communicating to you how ridiculously simply you approach things sometimes.

And yet you manage to insult me yet again while giving a creative way of justifying your insult.

The hadith doesnt help, if anything, it is a very negative and unhelpful way to approach someone who may experiencing a lot of distress that they dont understand or know how to control.

How do you know they don't help? I think everyone is familiar with your view of these ahadith, but not everyone thinks like you. There are many pious Muslims for who this could help shape their outlook on life. But you know, maybe the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) were just saying this stuff for the fun of it. I mean, it couldn't possibly have any bearing on real life, could it?

Once again, I never said this was the be all and end all of this situation, or that it was even a major factor in the solution. If anyone thinks my response to this situation in the brother's shoes would be to get out a bunch of ahadith, while the wife is enraged with jealousy, then they are either incredibly stupid or dishonest. It is simply one factor that in the proper time and place can play a role.

Edited by Haydar Husayn

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To be honest, I don't think removing female acquaintances from facebook is that big a deal. Obviously you may need to interact with women in daily life, but you probably shouldn't have no-mahram female 'friends'. Perhaps if you compromise on the facebook thing, then you could get her to compromise on something else in return.

On the other hand, she has to realise that this kind of extremely jealous beaviour is not acceptable. Perhaps you could show her these ahadith, since she seems to want to live her life in accordance with her religion (which is fine, but then you have to accept all of it, and not just the bits you like):

http://www.tashayyu....ries/chapter-78

http://www.tashayyu....ries/chapter-77

3 – And from a number of our companions from Ahmad b. Abi `Abdillah from Muhammad b. al-Hasan from Yusuf b. Hammad from the one whom he mentioned from Jabir from Abu Ja`far (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã). He said: Jealousy of women is hasad and hasad is the root of kufr. Verily, when women are jealous they are angry, and when they are angry they do kufr except for the Muslimat from them.

8 – Muhammad b. al-Husayn ar-Radi in Nahj al-Balagha. He said: Amir al-Mu’mineen (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) said: The jealous of the woman is kufr, and the jealousy of the man is iman. (this is in Nahjul Balagha by the way)

This woman's jealousy is specific to a woman feeling jealous of other wives that the husband may take or includes all women he may be casually interacting with? If it's the latter i.e. she feels jealous if he is looking around and talking to non-mahram females without any need and wants the husband to stop this behaviour then is she not doing good? Refraining husband from something bad?

Because as you know there are enough ahadith that talk about not getting into contact with non-mahram at all, forget maintaining relations (what passes off as "friendship") and while there may be no mention of internet, doesn't mean people can act whichever way they want and not apply real life admonitions to virtual life. In fact, internet can do and has caused far more damage than the real world. Like there was this one guy here who mentioned his wife lured by someone on SC, she forced divorce, the SC guy doesnt give her a look after her divorce and she was begging the ex-husband to take her back.

Also there is a hadith that says woman's jealousy is out of excessive love for husband, what about that?

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I get the feeling schools should start teaching basic logic, because clearly this is a huge issue with people these days. Or maybe it's just a reading comprehension problem? Hard to tell.

It is the overall attitude, mindset or approach with which we deal with a particular problem, along with all the assumptions and nuances that our advice carries that define the outcome of the remedial process.

I mean, why on earth would you specifically come up with ahadith to solve a problem which doesn't need ahadith for its solution, as it is self-evident?

To make some use of Shakespearean pageantry (or rather a layman imitation of it), if marriage counselling rested on ahadith, Muslim faqihs would be making millions.

But you know, maybe the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) were just saying this stuff for the fun of it. I mean, it couldn't possibly have any bearing on real life, could it?

No sir, not in the way you put it.

... it comes from strong feelings of fear and when people act on jealousy they are often trying to avert imagined future pain. It usually happens when people feel threatened and can be very ingrained, almost an overwhelming automatic response

What?

Do you have a hadith to back up your claim? :rolleyes:

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