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In the Name of God بسم الله

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Salam Alaikum,

Ive been a silent observer here for a few years now. This is a great website for people from all walks of life to discuss matters of mutual interest.

I am starting this post in hopes of sharing my experiences with my fellow members here and to get their view about my debacle. I got married to girl from Shiamatch and now I am regretting it because she turned out to be a very different person than how it seemed on the match making website. Im not going to give her name as this post in just so I understand what I might be able to do differently to make things better. However I suggest thorough investigations into the person (and his or her past) who you only know from a website. The sad part is that she is not a bad person at all. We're just not a good match. Has anyone else here gone through something like this ?

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Well I dont see divorce as a option because I know she's a good person. In my opinion, jurisprudence aside, divorce is acceptable if one would fear physical or religious disarry. These two have the potential to thwart one's more obvious goals.

My problem is different. I am married to a women who believes in some rather extreme benchmarks. For instance she does not want me to interact with women. Muslims or otherwise. Infact she think Muslim women are more dubious than non-Muslims. Since 'Muslims girls/woman are frustrated and just looking to get laid all the time' . Now she might be right about a few, but a blanket claim over everyone feels wrong. We've argued on this many a times, and it turns into an ugly discourse. I had to remove her from my facebook as she would regularly start getting competitive with my female acquaintances about little things like comments on pictures and stuff. In the beginning I tried to explain to her, seclusion is not the way to go. But she doesn't get it. I agree that it takes time, but there are no signs of improvement. When we got married, she cut off ties with her FB and real life male acquaintances and expected me to do the same with my female acquaintances. She even chided a few of mine. Needless to say this was very surprising to me, and my famliy. So I told her going back in a cave just because one got married is not the smart thing to do. Specially since Im a interfaith activist, which means I interact with a lot of people from different facets and backgrounds of life. So in essence I see my work evolving every day with the more people I meet, and I guess I feel constipated. I just feel it is unfair to be forced towards religion, even if she is pointing the right things to do or is in her right to do so. And my fear is that she will eventually force my children into submission like she is doing with me without giving them the opportunity to grow on their own and asking questions.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Edited by reckless.spouse

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I'm not sure I would mind having a wife so jealous of me that she wouldn't let me have any female FB friends.

Bro, I would... That would kill all my chances for later mutas :)

Lol, here I opened the can of worms!!!

(sorry OP in ruining your thread, but I could not hold)

Let's go back to original post....

Edited by Waiting for HIM

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I'm not sure I would mind having a wife so jealous of me that she wouldn't let me have any female FB friends.

There is obviously and undoubtedly more to it than that. You don't want a CCTV wifely spy surveillance all the time, trust me. You don't either want mini Tsunamis at home if the caller on your phone happens to be a receptionist from your dentist.

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Bro, I would... That would kill all my chances for later mutas :)

Lol, here I opened the can of worms!!!

(sorry OP in ruining your thread, but I could not hold)

Let's go back to original post....

it's so sad and depressing to see 'shia men' think nothing else but muta'h... that's why i don't even like the idea of mut'ah shame on us.

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Bro, I would... That would kill all my chances for later mutas :)

Lol, here I opened the can of worms!!!

(sorry OP in ruining your thread, but I could not hold)

Let's go back to original post....

Well not all men are as desperate as you, personally I think mut3a is being misused nowadays, people are using it to fulfil their own lusts and desires not mentioning there are conditions to a mutah marriage and it can't be used in every case.

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To be honest, I don't think removing female acquaintances from facebook is that big a deal. Obviously you may need to interact with women in daily life, but you probably shouldn't have no-mahram female 'friends'. Perhaps if you compromise on the facebook thing, then you could get her to compromise on something else in return.

On the other hand, she has to realise that this kind of extremely jealous beaviour is not acceptable. Perhaps you could show her these ahadith, since she seems to want to live her life in accordance with her religion (which is fine, but then you have to accept all of it, and not just the bits you like):

http://www.tashayyu....ries/chapter-78

http://www.tashayyu....ries/chapter-77

3 – And from a number of our companions from Ahmad b. Abi `Abdillah from Muhammad b. al-Hasan from Yusuf b. Hammad from the one whom he mentioned from Jabir from Abu Ja`far (عليه السلام). He said: Jealousy of women is hasad and hasad is the root of kufr. Verily, when women are jealous they are angry, and when they are angry they do kufr except for the Muslimat from them.

8 – Muhammad b. al-Husayn ar-Radi in Nahj al-Balagha. He said: Amir al-Mu’mineen (عليه السلام) said: The jealous of the woman is kufr, and the jealousy of the man is iman. (this is in Nahjul Balagha by the way)

Edited by Haydar Husayn

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Npurhan, Startgirl and other trigger happy respected sisters,

It was just a pun and was intended for purely entertainment reasons.

Read my previous posts, I'm a big time proponent of mutah but also an even bigger time proponent of not using it to be next Shia playboy.

Like I said, I jokingly destroyed a very wonderful post by my mutah comment.

Let's carry on the original discussion and see if we could help the brother infected by a "CCTV syndrome" better half!

As far as not liking mutah, I at least remember sister Nourhan agreeing with me that just like jihad is misused, mutah is misused too. Neither mutah is bad nor jihad is. Both are commandments of Allah and we "must" accept them as part of Quran. We should discourage those who abuse these two wonderful commandments of Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.

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There could be something deeper rooted and psychological causing your wife to be this insecure. It is not always a cut and dry case of "just quit being jealous" and it could stem as far back as childhood.

Edited by ImAli

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Have you tried speaking to her about why she doesnt want you to speak to other woman. Maybe she doesnt like your mates or maybe she fears that you might cheat on her with one of them , this maybe the reasons but Allah hu 3lam. You need to asure her that theirs no one that can replace her. Exaplain to her that there only friends nothing more then that. You should add her back on fb so that you can show her that their there just to talk to and let her talk to her mates if she wants. By the looks of it she hinted to you to deactive your account because she did that and you should have done the same thing , will that might be what she was doing and it might not be.

Tell her that you have to interact with the oppiste gender when your working , its impossible to not talk specially if your working in a envirment that has both genders.

Its something to do with trust. Maybe you can just allow fb for her.

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There could be something deeper rooted and psychological causing your wife to be this insecure. It is not always a cut and dry case of "just quit being jealous" and it could stem as far back as childhood.

Exactly. And I am amused at the suggestion of churning out ahadith, as if it would make the problem go away.

To the opening poster: Be gentle, understanding, empathetic and caring for it may open a better communication channel between you two than the one currently in place. It may help you get cues as to what is causing her to behave in a not-so-rational manner.

And one thing that you shouldn't have done is to remove her from your facebook. Bad idea. Really bad.

Edited by Marbles

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Npurhan, Startgirl and other trigger happy respected sisters,

It was just a pun and was intended for purely entertainment reasons.

Read my previous posts, I'm a big time proponent of mutah but also an even bigger time proponent of not using it to be next Shia playboy.

Like I said, I jokingly destroyed a very wonderful post by my mutah comment.

Let's carry on the original discussion and see if we could help the brother infected by a "CCTV syndrome" better half!

As far as not liking mutah, I at least remember sister Nourhan agreeing with me that just like jihad is misused, mutah is misused too. Neither mutah is bad nor jihad is. Both are commandments of Allah and we "must" accept them as part of Quran. We should discourage those who abuse these two wonderful commandments of Allah سبحانه وتعالى.

On a serious note, here is a practical advice in my opinion:

Some people are more jittery than others when they are newly married. This could be due to their past experiences or observations in their close proximity.

Since you are recently married, go ahead and do shun all the contacts with the females around you, build the trust in her eyes that you are not a flirt, show her that her opinions and concerns value a lot in your eyes. She eventually would cease to become over possessive and would loosen the noose around you. ;)

I say it as a practical advice because one of my female cousins recently went through exactly this situation and her husband handled it very well. 3 years down the marriage, she is much more secure and less suspicious. In the beginning it was harder for him to even call his female cousins and it was a freakistan for him.

Our family elders had a very positive role in all this, since they kept things under control for him till she became mature enough to handle her unfounded concerns.

Needs patience but things work out for you inshAllah. Make sure elders/friends on both sides are supportive. Intention here should be to make the marriage work and not a breakup, God forbid.

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Exactly. And I am amused at the suggestion of churning out ahadith, as if it would make the problem go away.

Who said that? It could simply help someone to get a different perspective on things.

What I find amusing is the casual dismissing of ahadith that is so frequent on this site. People would rather turn to a social sciences book than a book of ahadith on an issue.

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Who said that? It could simply help someone to get a different perspective on things.

What I find amusing is the casual dismissing of ahadith that is so frequent on this site. People would rather turn to a social sciences book than a book of ahadith on an issue.

Because the hadith you quoted offered no practical help

what

so

ever.

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Because the hadith you quoted offered no practical help

what

so

ever.

I don't know why you have to post in that fashion. What good does it serve?

Anyway, I disagree. If someone seeks to live their life according to Islam, then reading ahadith can always help them to reevaluate their behaviour. I never claimed it was some kind of magical cure, just that it is something a person may like to take into consideration. Of course, I am going by the assumption that the person in question is actually trying to live their life according to Islamic teachings. If they are the typical 'pick and choose' type of Muslim, then yeah, this will mostly likely not make the slightest difference, and may even enrage them. It's up to the brother to judge.

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Because the hadith you quoted offered no practical help

what

so

ever.

The point.

But the technical literalists wouldn't see that. The point isn't to get a "different perspective" on supposed wifely jealousy. It is to get to the meat of the problem, or the insecurity, or whatever it is, and address it through communication.

Haydar, is there a hadith about the importance of communicating with your wife? We might have to declare that as unIslamic if there isn't.

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The point.

But the technical literalists wouldn't see that. The point isn't to get a "different perspective" on supposed wifely jealousy. It is to get to the meat of the problem, or the insecurity, or whatever it is, and address it through communication.

Haydar, is there a hadith about the importance of communicating with your wife? We might have to declare that as unIslamic if there isn't.

Marbles, please show me where I said that he shouldn't try to communicate with his wife? My post in fact started with advising him to compromise with her.

Some of you would be better off not trying to read things into my posts that aren't there. Maybe then there would be less misunderstandings. Just because I choose to emphasise one particular point, or don't mention something that I know other people are going to mention anyway (or have already mentioned), that does not mean that I am not in favour of those other approaches or that I am suggesting only following what I say. I am simply throwing something out there that could perhaps be of use. Nothing more.

I get the feeling schools should start teaching basic logic, because clearly this is a huge issue with people these days. Or maybe it's just a reading comprehension problem? Hard to tell.

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I don't know why you have to post in that fashion. What good does it serve?

Anyway, I disagree. If someone seeks to live their life according to Islam, then reading ahadith can always help them to reevaluate their behaviour. I never claimed it was some kind of magical cure, just that it is something a person may like to take into consideration. Of course, I am going by the assumption that the person in question is actually trying to live their life according to Islamic teachings. If they are the typical 'pick and choose' type of Muslim, then yeah, this will mostly likely not make the slightest difference, and may even enrage them. It's up to the brother to judge.

What good did YOUR post do? so heres Hayder Husayn, marriage counsellor. The young couple turn up, give him a general sketch of the problem. He sits. Ponders. 'Aha!'. Stands for his delivery:

'Jealousy of women is hasad and hasad is the root of kufr. Next!'

And all is well.

Is this the world you live in? because thats how it comes across.

Telling someone that jealousy is destructive doesnt in any well help them understand their jealousy or figure out how to do anything about it.

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What good did YOUR post do? so heres Hayder Husayn, marriage counsellor. The young couple turn up, give him a general sketch of the problem. He sits. Ponders. 'Aha!'. Stands for his delivery:

'Jealousy of women is hasad and hasad is the root of kufr. Next!'

And all is well.

Is this the world you live in? because thats how it comes across.

Telling someone that jealousy is destructive doesnt in any well help them understand their jealousy or figure out how to do anything about it.

Ok fine. It's obviously pointless trying to find any kind of understanding with you since you want to give me no benefit of the doubt, and take every opportunity to insult me.

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What good did YOUR post do? so heres Hayder Husayn, marriage counsellor. The young couple turn up, give him a general sketch of the problem. He sits. Ponders. 'Aha!'. Stands for his delivery:

'Jealousy of women is hasad and hasad is the root of kufr. Next!'

And all is well.

Is this the world you live in? because thats how it comes across.

Telling someone that jealousy is destructive doesnt in any well help them understand their jealousy or figure out how to do anything about it.

You could try looking at it another way, if you went to the Imam (a) and said my wife has a jealousy problem, and the Imam says that jealousy is kufr, would you thenturn around and say "that doesn't solve anything" or would you take it that the words of the Imam are like the words of Allah, and so try to change your behaviour?

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You could try looking at it another way, if you went to the Imam (a) and said my wife has a jealousy problem, and the Imam says that jealousy is kufr, would you thenturn around and say "that doesn't solve anything" or would you take it that the words of the Imam are like the words of Allah, and so try to change your behaviour?

If thats the answer i got i would ask a different question.

Ok fine. It's obviously pointless trying to find any kind of understanding with you since you want to give me no benefit of the doubt, and take every opportunity to insult me.

I wasnt trying to insult you, i was exploring a new way of communicating to you how ridiculously simply you approach things sometimes. The hadith doesnt help, if anything, it is a very negative and unhelpful way to approach someone who may experiencing a lot of distress that they dont understand or know how to control.

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In my experience people do not enjoy jealousy, it is very very destructive emotion and you can damage yourself with it as much as you damage those around you. In my experience it comes from strong feelings of fear and when people act on jealousy they are often trying to avert imagined future pain. It usually happens when people feel threatened and can be very ingrained, almost an overwhelming automatic response. This is not an easy thing to treat.

It will only be of use to people who take some notice of their Imam's (as) words. To others, it wont be of any help.

What

So

Ever.

Theres more than one kind of ignorance.

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I wasnt trying to insult you, i was exploring a new way of communicating to you how ridiculously simply you approach things sometimes.

And yet you manage to insult me yet again while giving a creative way of justifying your insult.

The hadith doesnt help, if anything, it is a very negative and unhelpful way to approach someone who may experiencing a lot of distress that they dont understand or know how to control.

How do you know they don't help? I think everyone is familiar with your view of these ahadith, but not everyone thinks like you. There are many pious Muslims for who this could help shape their outlook on life. But you know, maybe the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) were just saying this stuff for the fun of it. I mean, it couldn't possibly have any bearing on real life, could it?

Once again, I never said this was the be all and end all of this situation, or that it was even a major factor in the solution. If anyone thinks my response to this situation in the brother's shoes would be to get out a bunch of ahadith, while the wife is enraged with jealousy, then they are either incredibly stupid or dishonest. It is simply one factor that in the proper time and place can play a role.

Edited by Haydar Husayn

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To be honest, I don't think removing female acquaintances from facebook is that big a deal. Obviously you may need to interact with women in daily life, but you probably shouldn't have no-mahram female 'friends'. Perhaps if you compromise on the facebook thing, then you could get her to compromise on something else in return.

On the other hand, she has to realise that this kind of extremely jealous beaviour is not acceptable. Perhaps you could show her these ahadith, since she seems to want to live her life in accordance with her religion (which is fine, but then you have to accept all of it, and not just the bits you like):

http://www.tashayyu....ries/chapter-78

http://www.tashayyu....ries/chapter-77

3 – And from a number of our companions from Ahmad b. Abi `Abdillah from Muhammad b. al-Hasan from Yusuf b. Hammad from the one whom he mentioned from Jabir from Abu Ja`far (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã). He said: Jealousy of women is hasad and hasad is the root of kufr. Verily, when women are jealous they are angry, and when they are angry they do kufr except for the Muslimat from them.

8 – Muhammad b. al-Husayn ar-Radi in Nahj al-Balagha. He said: Amir al-Mu’mineen (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) said: The jealous of the woman is kufr, and the jealousy of the man is iman. (this is in Nahjul Balagha by the way)

This woman's jealousy is specific to a woman feeling jealous of other wives that the husband may take or includes all women he may be casually interacting with? If it's the latter i.e. she feels jealous if he is looking around and talking to non-mahram females without any need and wants the husband to stop this behaviour then is she not doing good? Refraining husband from something bad?

Because as you know there are enough ahadith that talk about not getting into contact with non-mahram at all, forget maintaining relations (what passes off as "friendship") and while there may be no mention of internet, doesn't mean people can act whichever way they want and not apply real life admonitions to virtual life. In fact, internet can do and has caused far more damage than the real world. Like there was this one guy here who mentioned his wife lured by someone on SC, she forced divorce, the SC guy doesnt give her a look after her divorce and she was begging the ex-husband to take her back.

Also there is a hadith that says woman's jealousy is out of excessive love for husband, what about that?

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I get the feeling schools should start teaching basic logic, because clearly this is a huge issue with people these days. Or maybe it's just a reading comprehension problem? Hard to tell.

It is the overall attitude, mindset or approach with which we deal with a particular problem, along with all the assumptions and nuances that our advice carries that define the outcome of the remedial process.

I mean, why on earth would you specifically come up with ahadith to solve a problem which doesn't need ahadith for its solution, as it is self-evident?

To make some use of Shakespearean pageantry (or rather a layman imitation of it), if marriage counselling rested on ahadith, Muslim faqihs would be making millions.

But you know, maybe the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) were just saying this stuff for the fun of it. I mean, it couldn't possibly have any bearing on real life, could it?

No sir, not in the way you put it.

... it comes from strong feelings of fear and when people act on jealousy they are often trying to avert imagined future pain. It usually happens when people feel threatened and can be very ingrained, almost an overwhelming automatic response

What?

Do you have a hadith to back up your claim? :rolleyes:

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This woman's jealousy is specific to a woman feeling jealous of other wives that the husband may take or includes all women he may be casually interacting with? If it's the latter i.e. she feels jealous if he is looking around and talking to non-mahram females without any need and wants the husband to stop this behaviour then is she not doing good? Refraining husband from something bad?

Because as you know there are enough ahadith that talk about not getting into contact with non-mahram at all, forget maintaining relations (what passes off as "friendship") and while there may be no mention of internet, doesn't mean people can act whichever way they want and not apply real life admonitions to virtual life. In fact, internet can do and has caused far more damage than the real world. Like there was this one guy here who mentioned his wife lured by someone on SC, she forced divorce, the SC guy doesnt give her a look after her divorce and she was begging the ex-husband to take her back.

Did you even read the first part of my post where I advised him to remove women from his facebook page, and told him he shouldn't have female friends?

I honestly get the feeling sometimes that some people are in such a rush to attack me, they don't even bother reading what I write properly.

Also there is a hadith that says woman's jealousy is out of excessive love for husband, what about that?

Just because the motive might be good, it doesn't make the action ok, does it?

Anyway, obviously a man has the right to take more than one wife (permanent or temporary), so he can't have the first wife going nuts everytime he so much as looks at another woman. Otherwise how could he even approach anyone else to make the marriage proposal?

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Anyway, obviously a man has the right to take more than one wife (permanent or temporary), so he can't have the first wife going nuts everytime he so much as looks at another woman. Otherwise how could he even approach anyone else to make the marriage proposal?

There you go again. That's the bottom line for you isn't it.

As we say in Urdu, dhaak ke teen paat

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No, it's not the bottom line. I'm just pointing out it out.

Have you ever tried pointing out that it may, just may, be desirable for the husband to stick with his wife (and kids) rather than chatting up with other women for a golden chance of securing a marriage, permanent or temporary?

If yes, I'd like to see where.

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Have you ever tried pointing out that it may, just may, be desirable for the husband to stick with his wife (and kids) rather than chatting up with other women for a golden chance of securing a marriage, permanent or temporary?

If yes, I'd like to see where.

I have pointed out on several occasions that I didn't think it was a good idea in general to take more than one wife (permanent or temporary) while living in the societies most of us live in. You can either search for that yourself, or else someone more familiar with my posts can confirm it. I'm certainly not going to waste my time.

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