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HassanShia

Evolution And Islam?

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Peace.

To iDevonian

Now I'll use words that are more specific in meaning.

Because there are multiple concepts we are discussing.

Let's focus on one concept for now.

Concept: Are humans classified as apes (in all dimensions)?

Yes, the founders of the word "ape" in taxonomic terms defined it.

In taxonomic terms they may have put humans as apes. Yes, even if humans are classified as apes in taxonomy/science, are they classified as apes in all dimensions?

And yes, apes by the people who have taxonomically defined ape, are an umbrella group of animals that include humans.

Yes, taxonomically, humans are including in the umbrella group of animals that are defined as "ape". Even you agree with this.

But not in philosophical reasoning and intellectual dimensions.

Youre thinking about it backwards. Bananas are yellow, they have X traits aside from being yellow as well. These traits allow us to define the banana as a banana.

Bananas are yellow, and there is no evident problem in saying this.

But saying "humans are apes", there is a problem in saying this, because no animal possesses intellectualism and philosophical reasoning as a human does.

That's my main point which makes me differentiate humans from animals.

go read up on taxonomy, go read up on what taxonomically defines an ape.

Taxonomy only examines the scientific dimensions of things, and science is based on evidence and experimentation.

If I'm saying humans are different not in biological aspects but in philosophical aspects, what experiment/evidence does science have to disprove this thesis?

If science cannot find such experimental evidence then it does not reach far enough to prove that "humans are apes in all aspects". If it can, then I would like to see it please.

And if you cant figure it out and ud like me to spoon feed you a definition, i can.

And if you cant figure out that "humans aren't apes" and you'd like me to spoon feed you both definitions, I can.

But I decided that we were going to put such useless emotional disputation aside.

And we use some real solid logical arguments to support our views.

But id hope that you have your ape brain and ape abilities that will allow you to figure it out yourself.

That's not the problem.

We both know the scientific definitions of both a human and an ape.

But no, I'm not saying we're scientifically/taxonomically defined different, but we're philosophically and intellectually defined different.

If you actually let go your wild desires without rational reasoning then you will end up being the same as an ape or any other animal.

We are humans and we need to act like humans by controlling our desires and emotions with rationality and philosophical reasoning to solve our quest for knowledge, or in other words, "intellectualism".

That's why instead of attacking me with ape words backed by ape emotions and ape-like thinking, you should use rationality and philosophical reasoning to support your stance like a human.

Didn't say that you were an ape, not that any one of us is an ape. We are humans and different from any other animal because of our ability to rationalize choices using philosophical argumentation and quest for intellectualism.

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It is not possible that the universe camee into existence coincidentally because it has a unique well-arranged system, which does not change nor variate from the procedure predestined for it.

"You will never find a change in the system of
Allah
."
[33:62]

"You will never fmd any reversal in the system of
Allah
."
[35:43]

"You will not see in the creation of the Most Gracious any disparity, so turn your vision again. Do you see any rupture? Then turn your vision again, a second time, your vision will return to you dull an in a state of fatigue."
[67:3-4]

The fact that this universe has a unique, well-arranged system, prevents it's existence being coincidental. That which is in existence coincidentally will also have a system which is coincidental, which is likely to change or be disturbed in a short period of time. source: sunnahonline.com

Cause after all, this thread is about Evolution and Islam.

Just for good purpose, ill point out that this statement has nothing to do with biological evolution. Also, biological evolution is a constant process, it doesnt change, there is no reversal either.

Peace.

To iDevonian

Now I'll use words that are more specific in meaning.

Let's focus on one concept for now.

Concept: Are humans classified as apes (in all dimensions)?

In taxonomic terms they may have put humans as apes. Yes, even if humans are classified as apes in taxonomy/science, are they classified as apes in all dimensions?

Yes, taxonomically, humans are including in the umbrella group of animals that are defined as "ape". Even you agree with this.

But not in philosophical reasoning and intellectual dimensions.

Bananas are yellow, and there is no evident problem in saying this.

But saying "humans are apes", there is a problem in saying this, because no animal possesses intellectualism and philosophical reasoning as a human does.

That's my main point which makes me differentiate humans from animals.

Taxonomy only examines the scientific dimensions of things, and science is based on evidence and experimentation.

If I'm saying humans are different not in biological aspects but in philosophical aspects, what experiment/evidence does science have to disprove this thesis?

If science cannot find such experimental evidence then it does not reach far enough to prove that "humans are apes in all aspects". If it can, then I would like to see it please.

And if you cant figure out that "humans aren't apes" and you'd like me to spoon feed you both definitions, I can.

But I decided that we were going to put such useless emotional disputation aside.

And we use some real solid logical arguments to support our views.

That's not the problem.

We both know the scientific definitions of both a human and an ape.

But no, I'm not saying we're scientifically/taxonomically defined different, but we're philosophically and intellectually defined different.

If you actually let go your wild desires without rational reasoning then you will end up being the same as an ape or any other animal.

We are humans and we need to act like humans by controlling our desires and emotions with rationality and philosophical reasoning to solve our quest for knowledge, or in other words, "intellectualism".

That's why instead of attacking me with ape words backed by ape emotions and ape-like thinking, you should use rationality and philosophical reasoning to support your stance like a human.

Didn't say that you were an ape, not that any one of us is an ape. We are humans and different from any other animal because of our ability to rationalize choices using philosophical argumentation and quest for intellectualism.

fine, as long as we agree, that scientifically, we are apes, I am fine with whatever your philosophical views may be.

Edited by iDevonian

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Peace Out

Side Note: Science cannot solve every problem concerning the Universe. That's why we have philosophical reasoning.

Peace Out

If creation implies a creator then the best way to understand the creator is by studying the creation.

The religion that is afraid of science dishonours God and in the long run commits suicide.

ws.

*

Edited by Quisant

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If creation implies a creator then the best way to understand the creator is by studying the creation.

The religion that is afraid of science dishonours God and in the long run commits suicide.

ws.

*

Salam

I am in complete harmony with science and If you think in any way that I am not harmonized with science then you are not thinking correctly. And why would I be afraid of science? Science is a beautiful study of creation, and it rather supports my viewpoints.

Let me use an example of a mirror.

Creation is like the reflection in a mirror.

Science studies only the reflection.

But by using science, with wisdom, and making logical inferences about the reflection, we automatically recognize the person behind the mirror or Creator of the reflection because it is reflecting it clearly

This logical inference-making with wisdom is called philosophical reasoning.

Imam Ali (as) said: "Do not think about Allah, rather, think about what Allah has created, for thinking about Allah only increases one's bewilderment."

I think science only 'looks' at what Allah has created, but like what Imam Ali (as) says, we need to "think" about what Allah has created.

Edited by ShiaPoet

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I have deleted my last post because, in hindsight, I decided it was off topic.

I don't buy the 'reflection' example but we might discuss that in some other thread.

Yours is a good post.

All the best.

*

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both islam and darwin cannot be true

hence darwin was wrong and his evolution theory a bogus

I thought this debate ended...

anyways - Evolution does not harm in any way Islam's viewpoints on things.

Even if we evolved or did not evolve, does that impact our responsibilities Islam destined for us towards our Creator?

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I thought this debate ended...

anyways - Evolution does not harm in any way Islam's viewpoints on things.

Even if we evolved or did not evolve, does that impact our responsibilities Islam destined for us towards our Creator?

the theory of evolution states that we human beings came from apes

but in islam Allah swt clearly states that adam (as) was the first man and that he created him

isnt it a major difference

so i believe that darwin's evolution theory is a bogus

Allah swt knows the best

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Such magnificent philosophy and logic. These thoughts are unrivaled in modern times.

They sure are. When you find most of these evolution supporters are keen on accepting and defending evolution like its their life, so they can have a strong justification (humans are animals, therefore they don't need morals) as to why they sleep with 100s of women, drink till they blow up their liver, and end up living in anarchy, just like animals!

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They sure are. When you find most of these evolution supporters are keen on accepting and defending evolution like its their life, so they can have a strong justification (humans are animals, therefore they don't need morals) as to why they sleep with 100s of women, drink till they blow up their liver, and end up living in anarchy, just like animals!

Evolution supporters come from all walks of life, including Islamic ones. But on another note, the reason people act like animals, is because they are animals.

Even the most intelligent and noble people still abide by natural law. We all still eat, sleep and breed just like any other living thing out here. Well, unless youre those celebate christians who dont have any sexual relations. But we see how well that turns out. We still compete and fight amongst ourselves for resources, just like ants waging war over territory or birds fighting over prey.

We just take it all to the next level. We fight with deadlier weapons. Have sex with much more intensity. We feast on far more animals, so many that we must farm the animals themselves just so we can eat them. We sleep with alarm clocks for more efficiency. When we get sick like other animals, we just put the bacterial killer into a pill and eat it, and it enhances our own natural defense.

We do everything that any other animal does, we just use our mind to do it more efficiently. But ultimately, we are just like any other animal.

I remember hearing someone say that people were impressed that bees could build a bee hive so efficiently. But look at humanity, we build our own bee hives in the form of houses and buildings. We do the same things that other animals do.

Realistically, we share so much with the animal kingdom, i dont even understand how people could believe that we arent animals.

Edited by iDevonian

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but in islam Allah swt clearly states that adam (as) was the first man and that he created him

Salam yeah Adam (as) may have been the first complete human being (granted with knowledge and wisdom) which Allah has created.

It doesn't mean there weren't others like him before him with ape-like qualities.

Imam Ali (as) has said talking about this world that "It's condition is changing" and says: "Praise be to Allah who is proof of His being External through the newness of His creation." If living creatures were always the way they were, then why would Imam Ali (as) say that there's newness between creation?

i dont even understand how people could believe that we arent animals.

Well its because we are different from animals.

Animals don't have philosophical reasoning and intellectualism, and are not blameworthy for their natural behavior because of their natural instincts which lack sense of knowledge and wisdom.

That is why animals blindly follow their instincts without religious restriction and even if they do something it is not backed by such philosophical reasoning.

Humans have the ability to believe in such philosophical conclusions and that is why humans can restrict themselves from committing animal-like behaviors which are backed by animal-like instincts and animal-like nature. But despite all of these natural obstacles which are put in man, man can follow the path of salvation and righteousness through logic and reasoning and religious guidance.

Humans and animals are different, if looked in an open-minded logical perspective, and I have explained why above.

Edited by ShiaPoet

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Well its because we are different from animals.

Animals don't have philosophical reasoning and intellectualism, and are not blameworthy for their natural behavior because of their natural instincts which lack sense of knowledge and wisdom.

That is why animals blindly follow their instincts without religious restriction and even if they do something it is not backed by such philosophical reasoning.

Humans have the ability to believe in such philosophical conclusions and that is why humans can restrict themselves from committing animal-like behaviors which are backed by animal-like instincts and animal-like nature. But despite all of these natural obstacles which are put in man, man can follow the path of salvation and righteousness through logic and reasoning and religious guidance.

Humans and animals are different, if looked in an open-minded logical perspective, and I have explained why above.

What do you consider an animal? Physically, what would you say they are?

If you ever try to describe what an animal is, odds are you would be using adjectives that could also be attributed to humans.

Warm blooded, bilaterally semetric. Multi cellular, bipedal. Warm blooded. Hairy, gives birth out of the womb. Has teeth in a mouth. Has canine teeth. Has 2 eyes.

etc etc, you could really go on almost forever giving a description of common animals, and 99.9% of your adjectives would be adjectives you could use for humans too.

The only thing that seperates us from them is, as you said "philosophical reasoning and intellectualism". Which is a product of the brain.

You may as well just say "animals dont have efficient brains, and humans do". Thats in a physical sense what you are saying. And brain size doesnt somehow seperate us from the rest of the animal kingdom. Its simply 1 trait of a billion that makes us unique.

But realistically every animal in the animal kingdom has atleast 1 trait in a billion that makes them unique. So why are they still animals and not non animals?

Philosophical reasoning, in my opinion doesnt somehow make us non animals. I dont even think any definition in any dictionary of what an animal is even excludes such traits.

humans are different than other animals, yes I agree, but just because we are unique (just as any other animal is unique) doesnt mean we are not animals. A tiger is unique too, so is a whale, but their unique traits do not make them non animals.

Edited by iDevonian

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The only thing that seperates us from them is, as you said "philosophical reasoning and intellectualism". Which is a product of the brain.

Why don't apes even come close to any form of philosophical reasoning, religion, or intellectualism, even though they have a closely related brain?

If humans are just apes but have a more advanced intelligence level, or more advanced brain, then apes should possess somewhat similar or in better words 'less advanced' form of intellectualism or such philosophical reasoning?

But apes or any other animal do not even have a trace of philosophical reasoning or intellectualism.

Apes and all other animals have the same instinct-behavior relation, but humans are differentiated by philosophy clearly, which I have explained above.

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Why don't apes even come close to any form of philosophical reasoning, religion, or intellectualism, even though they have a closely related brain?

If humans are just apes but have a more advanced intelligence level, or more advanced brain, then apes should possess somewhat similar or in better words 'less advanced' form of intellectualism or such philosophical reasoning?

But apes or any other animal do not even have a trace of philosophical reasoning or intellectualism.

Apes and all other animals have the same instinct-behavior relation, but humans are differentiated by philosophy clearly, which I have explained above.

(salam) (bismillah)

According to fossil records these apes are not the most similar to us in DNA, structure, or cognitive ability. There are creatures much closer to us in these aspects, the most popular example being the neanderthal.

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According to fossil records these apes are not the most similar to us in DNA, structure, or cognitive ability. There are creatures much closer to us in these aspects, the most popular example being the neanderthal.

Wa-Alaykum Assalam

If your going to spill facts even if related to subject then you need to mention your viewpoint or else people cannot identify clearly what you're trying to say.

Please mention the point you are trying to make.

Peace - :D

Wa-Salam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa barakatoh

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Why don't apes even come close to any form of philosophical reasoning, religion, or intellectualism, even though they have a closely related brain?

If humans are just apes but have a more advanced intelligence level, or more advanced brain, then apes should possess somewhat similar or in better words 'less advanced' form of intellectualism or such philosophical reasoning?

But apes or any other animal do not even have a trace of philosophical reasoning or intellectualism.

Apes and all other animals have the same instinct-behavior relation, but humans are differentiated by philosophy clearly, which I have explained above.

Apes such as chimpanzees do have emotions and they are intelligent enough to speak with people about things. They arent robots. What do you expect them to read plato or something?

Wa-Alaykum Assalam

If your going to spill facts even if related to subject then you need to mention your viewpoint or else people cannot identify clearly what you're trying to say.

Please mention the point you are trying to make.

Peace - :D

Wa-Salam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa barakatoh

What hes saying is, chimps and gorillas are significantly different in morphology when it comes to the brain. Whereas other apes such as neanderthals...which arent humans, are more closely related.

Neanderthals and even more primitive apes like...archaic sapiens. Erectus, aferensis, rhodensis, australopithecus, robustus, habilis, bhosei and all the rest of em all were intellectually more similar to modern day man. Some practiced religion even. Built primitive societies and primitive tools. Buried their loved ones and created trade and built fires n such.

And these are not humans. They are not homo sapiens like us. They were animals, some have very primitive bone structures, large canines, massive jaws and some walked...almost like chimpanzees. Some had toes that could curl almost as if they were used to hold on to things. Some had hip bones almost like a chimp, but shaped in just a way that they would be bipedal. Smaller brain capacity. Their collar bones shaped in a way in which they could not bend their heads forward like we can, almost as if they did not commonly stand on two legs etc.

These are animals by both of our definitions.

And thank you shiasoldier for making that point. It is a good one. With your point, im not sure if you realise it, but you have pretty much just won the discussion. This is because, you are pointing out the fact that transitional forms exist. Or atleast animals very similar to humans have existed.

And I will add that, they are so similar to us, that we even still have their DNA within us (well some of us do, not all modern humans have neanderthal DNA, many Africans do not). Neanderthals are not human, and even aside from neanderthals, there are other species that interbred with our ancestors as well, again non humans.

We physically came from those before us, and those before us were far from human. And this is why you cannot say humans are not animals, because the genes of the animal kingdom, the genes that create your 1/3 reptile, 1/3 mammal, 1/3 fish brain, are what make you. Your brain is advanced, but its made of parts that are from your animal history. Your organs, every part of your body made from genes once used by fish, and reptiles and mammals.

Saying a human is not an animal is like saying a bird is not a dinosaur. You can call a bird a different name, but it in essence is a dinosaur, it came from them and its physical existance is a remenant of their existence.

Chickens dont have sharp talons for nothing, they used to be dangerous raptors. And likewise, humans dont have canine teeth for nothing, we dont have painful back problems and wisdom teeth issues for no reason, we dont get hernias for no reason, our wrist bones arent so fragile for no reason, we dont get goose bumps for no reason etc. The reason our bodies have some of these issues is because they are remenants of our past morphology, they served as functions for a time when we were the ones walking on 4 legs.

And that is why humans are animals. Very advanced, intelligent and philosophical ones, but animals none the less.

Edited by iDevonian

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(salam) (bismillah)

According to fossil records these apes are not the most similar to us in DNA, structure, or cognitive ability. There are creatures much closer to us in these aspects, the most popular example being the neanderthal.

This is the perfect point.

For shiapoet,

If you looked at all of the transitional fossils and the history of mankind, you would not be able to draw the line seperating humans (white) from animals (black) simply because its a transition. Its like having a transition from black to white. Where does black end (animals) and white begin (humans) when you are looking at a million shades of gray (neanderthals, rhodensis and all those others Ive named) in between the two?

It cant be done, and this is what paleontologists argue about all the time. Is it a mammal or a reptile? Is it an amphibian or a reptile? The answer is, often its a transition, and its both. Human and primitive ape, a middle being between the two. And you cannot say its a human, but we can say it is an animal, but it is also us.

Edited by iDevonian

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Intelligence has obvious advantages that can help with survival in different circumstances.

So although consistent with evolutionary theory, what baffles most people and what remains to be clearly explained is why human brains are significantly more developed than brains of other animals.

It may be that a trait beneficial to one specie is not necessarily beneficial to another.

For some life forms highly developed intelligence is not necessary to survive and thrive.

Intelligence is energetically very costly for humans. Other apes may simply be better off without it.

wslm.

*

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Such magnificent philosophy and logic. These thoughts are unrivaled in modern times.

thank you verrrry much :D

so if you have any doubts you can feel free to contact me lol

so will you nominate me to the nobel prize :shifty:

Edited by varun loves ahlulbayt

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most ppl leave islam because wen the evolution came in betweeen Islam and evolution ppl got confused, because in out religon it says nothing about the evolution, come on, if the evolution was so "IMPORTENT" islam would have mentioned it in the Quran......but there is nothing about the evolution.

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most ppl leave islam because wen the evolution came in betweeen Islam and evolution ppl got confused, because in out religon it says nothing about the evolution, come on, if the evolution was so "IMPORTENT" islam would have mentioned it in the Quran......but there is nothing about the evolution.

I think most people leave Islam or religion in general due to a complex mix of reasons. The reasons are mostly philosophical problems with the idea of God or Islam or just disillusionment with religion in general.

Islam came around the 5th century, charles darwin wrote the origin of species in 1842, the 17th century. Thats a gap of 1200 years. How do you explain all the people who left Islam before modern evolutionary biology? It's clearly quite silly to blame evolution. Most people i see this do it just out of pure ignorance.

There are plenty of religious people who also believe in evolution, there are a few on this forum too. So, clearly, good, evidence based science and your personal religious views dont need to fight, unless you want them to. You can have your religion and you can still accept good, modern science as well.

Your argument is clearly absurd, we could extend it out to many things.

If X wasn't mentioned in the Quran, it must not be important.

Breathing wasn't mentioned in the quran, if it was so important, it would of told us how to breathe.

Modern medicine wasn't mentioned in the Quran, if it was so important, it should of told me to take my chemotherapy drugs. If you get cancer, i invite you not to take your medicine.

The internet wasn't mentioned in the Quran, if it was so important, it should of mentioned it. Therefore, we shouldn't use the internet. (oops...)

Theres nothing about basketball in the quran, quick, better give it up and pretend it doesnt exist if it isnt written in the quran.

You see where this kind of absurd logic leads? This is why you have to follow scholars to interpret the laws with the changing times, new inventions and knowledge clearly do come into being.

The Quran isn't a science book, it never aimed to be. Its a religious text. That difference is critical.

PS: It's "Important" :)

Edited by kingpomba

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The Quran isn't a science book, it never aimed to be. Its a religious text.

Salam

Quran aimed to be "a guidance for mankind, and with clear proofs for guidance" as mentioned in verse (2:185).

Quran is in harmony with science, and it also mentions many scientific concepts/material.

Science is the study of the universe, and the Qur'an does an incontestably excellent account of that (keeping in mind the era in which the Qur'an was revealed)

What Quran really is is explained in the verse above

Just clarifying

Wassalam

Edited by ShiaPoet

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My point was more the fact the quran isn't everything and can't be used as everything. I can't use the quran as instructions to build my ikea table and its not a very good textbook if you want to read up on cancer or heart surgery.

Quran is in harmony with science, and it also mentions many scientific concepts/material.

I'm not going to say these are either right or wrong. Often these scientific things are based upon one or two lines that could be interpreted to mean absolutely anything. The early muslim alchemists used the mentions of earth and fire as proof that the world was NOT made up of tiny individisble atoms but it was made up of the 5 classical elements, fire, earth , air, water, ect

You can use the quran to prove anything using anything.

Kinda neutral on things like this, i think we should just call it a no contest.

You mention how the science was appropriate for the time. This of course adds to my point, of course they wouldn't buy or understand evolution at that time.

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(see history on how many have tried and failed, or why can't the supercomputers of our time not produce something like it?)

Also, you say Darwin published it in 1842 ..and many have proven it to be wrong, i'm not gonna do a literature review on that now, you can do it yourself. And the Quran 14 centuries ago..and it's still not ..pff never mind :P

So as long as humans can't produce a chapter like it, or you know what, just produce a single living fly or mosquito (out of nothingness), then I would say you're on the losing strike..

(salam) (bismillah)

Look man I am honestly tired of this. You can't just quote a verse of the Quran and then make random claims against evolution which are not cited, if you have the time to cite the Holy Quran (which is not part of this debate) then you must have the time to cite the claims you make.

There is not history of people who have tried and failed to produce a chapter from the Quran, please post some if you can because as far as I know such history does not exist.

Lastly Darwin's original works contained a few errors, but nothing that disproved evolution. As of now there is no data that disproves evolution. The concept makes complete sense.

When most people debate evolution this is what it sounds like:

Believes in Evolution: " If a very contagious disease appears that only kills people from China, what would happen to the population of Chinese people?"

Does Not Believe in Evolution: " It would decrease."

Believes in Evolution: "So then isn't it most likely that people who are not Chinese will have a higher chance of surviving."

Does Not Believe in Evolution: "No."

Believes in Evolution: "Why not."

Does Not Believe in Evolution: " Because, we don't come from apes."

Whether or not humans appeared because of evolution may be debatable for some, but you simply can not disregard the theory evolution- to do so is spitting in the face of logic.

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(salam) (bismillah)

Look man I am honestly tired of this. You can't just quote a verse of the Quran and then make random claims against evolution which are not cited, if you have the time to cite the Holy Quran (which is not part of this debate) then you must have the time to cite the claims you make.

There is not history of people who have tried and failed to produce a chapter from the Quran, please post some if you can because as far as I know such history does not exist.

Lastly Darwin's original works contained a few errors, but nothing that disproved evolution. As of now there is no data that disproves evolution. The concept makes complete sense.

When most people debate evolution this is what it sounds like:

Believes in Evolution: " If a very contagious disease appears that only kills people from China, what would happen to the population of Chinese people?"

Does Not Believe in Evolution: " It would decrease."

Believes in Evolution: "So then isn't it most likely that people who are not Chinese will have a higher chance of surviving."

Does Not Believe in Evolution: "No."

Believes in Evolution: "Why not."

Does Not Believe in Evolution: " Because, we don't come from apes."

Whether or not humans appeared because of evolution may be debatable for some, but you simply can not disregard the theory evolution- to do so is spitting in the face of logic.

Its nice to see a shia partaking in our fight to enlighten others, more specifically on our side. Bravo.

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Its nice to see a shia partaking in our fight to enlighten others, more specifically on our side. Bravo.

On a side note, the Vatican has, after lengthy resistance, rejected both creationism and intelligent design.

See the article in the Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/4588289/The-Vatican-claims-Darwins-theory-of-evolution-is-compatible-with-Christianity.html

With regards to human evolution, it allows for the possibility that man’s body developed from previous biological forms, under God’s guidance, but it insists on the special creation of his soul.

Seems a good compromise, what is wrong with Islam going along with that?

wslm.

*

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On a side note, the Vatican has, after lengthy resistance, rejected both creationism and intelligent design.

See the article in the Telegraph:

http://www.telegraph...ristianity.html

With regards to human evolution, it allows for the possibility that man’s body developed from previous biological forms, under God’s guidance, but it insists on the special creation of his soul.

Seems a good compromise, what is wrong with Islam going along with that?

wslm.

*

There is nothing wrong with Islam going with the most reasonable solution. As a matter of fact, I believe it is inevitable. For Islam to progress in modern times, it must come to terms with this.

And yes, this subject is seperate from religion itself. Something I would have said but you have beat me to it. But the question is, what will it take to show the others? Maybe its only a matter of time.

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