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In the Name of God بسم الله

How To Find A Temporary Relationship?

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CuriousShia

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I have a question for the poster. Do you really REALLY not know the answer to your question? I don't mean offence by it but it baffles my mind why you wouldnt.

First of all, I would like to know the reasoning behind why you are wondering why there arent more women who just want to have open sex with you? I mean sure its a nice fantasy...but I am pretty sure that every man in every religion in every country in the world is wondering why women wont have sex with him easily? with no effort? :P lol

But on a serious note, if you boys are truly scratching your heads as to why.....here is my opinion as a girl who would never ever do it. I don't mean to be judgmental or angry or anything about it I am just expressing how I TRULY feel about the issue (and suspect other girls may feel about)

1) Double standard : I think it is because men generally have a double standard on the issue and either play dumb about it or dont fully realize it. Let me ask you this. If you were looking for a life partner, for someone to marry and have kids with and grow old with....I am assuming you woudl want a virgin. Even if you didn't....how would you feel if your potential life partner says "Yah I have slept with 25 other muslim guys....but dont worry! It was mutah! So its ok!!! :) " Would you still want to marry this woman? Its obvious that you would not. Why? Because our religion praises purity (for BOTH sexes). Its funny because you say that in this day and age living in the western world mutah should be more easily accessible because of the temptation. I think thats just stupid. What you are saying is "I want to find a girl, assure her that once I have used her body I do not intend on having a serious relationship with her".....you basically want a one night stand (or many nights :P) So tell me how is this different than the 'western' standard of picking up a girl at a bar? Its NOT. You may not be doing it at a bar but its the same principle. You want mutah as a way to avoid temptation...yet you are giving in to temptation....Then we go and look down on such practices and deem them sinful and bad when they do it....yet you want to do basically the same thing....under a thin mask of 'oh but its ok religiously'

No. its not. **see last point**

The best/worst part of it is that a 'western' girl who goes to a bar and gets picked up and goes through the one night stand thing....it doesnt 'ruin her reputation' or chances of remarriage. Sure if she does it constantly it could but honestly a lot of western men dont CARE. THATS the major difference here. A white guy bangs a random girl every weekend....but when he settles down he doesn't give a damn if the girl did the same thing. Even guys who arent like that dont care about how many sexual partners the girl has had.

But for muslims its COMPLETLY different! The girl doesnt bounce back from something like that.

And as a side note, how would you feel if a random guy wanted to sleep with your sister/mother/daughter....same feelings?

2) NO EFFORT? But what is even worse is that what you propose " Instead of dating and having girl friends why not explain or have a process set up for both sexes to find each other easily. Either at locations or online to keep it discreet." is so very degrading to women....do you not realize that? Instead of DATING AND HAVING GIRLFRIENDS you just want sex. At least the poor western guy has to buy the girl dinner, has to woo her, take her to coffee, listen to her blah blah blah about everything etc in the HOPES of getting sex. You are saying ok, listen, I dont care who you are I just want sex.....but I dont want to put time/effort/energy etc in it I want it hassle free. I'll find you online. I'll have sex with you. Then I will keep it discreet. If I see you in public I will ignore you....I wouldnt want that good pure girl I am thinking of marrying and having a family with know that I slept with you. Again, how would you feel if a man did that to your mother/sister/wife?

Because reality check guys....girls dont want guys who have had premarital sex either. Well I can't speak for other girls but I can speak for myself. I would not want to marry a man who has done that....now I know some of you will whine and say 'BUT ISLAM SAYS ITS OK WHY ARE YOU SAYING IT ISNT" My answer? Islam also doesnt MAKE me marry a man I am not attracted to. And I for one am not attracted to the idea of marrying a guy who has had premarital sex. If I was able to preserve myself for marriage I expect that of my spouse. If I myself had sex before marriage I wouldnt mind it if the guy did too....but thats just the thing....muslim guys dont want girls who have had sex before marriage. simple as that.

3) Emotional Connections - Women, unlike men, form deep emotional connections every time they have sex, while men do not. Its a scientific fact. Womens brains give off a hormone that triggers deep emotions/love for the person they are having sex with ...yet that does not happen to the guy. Once the guy has had his fun he can walk away with no attachment...much different story for the girl.

4) Lazy Men Boys - Finally I think the biggest issue with mutah the way most young men want to use it these days is the INTENTIONS behind them. I dont know you who posted this and I will not make the judgment that you fall into this category. Many men dont...but many men do. I think the whole 'intention' behind temporary marriages has been greatly skewed and misrepresented in today's society. Going back to the time of the prophet men would only take on a temporary wife because, say, for example, he was at war.....hundreds of kilometers away from his wife......or away for work etc. In that time there were no cars or trains or planes to get you from point A to B. Perhaps going home was a weeks journey....not something that could be done often. Now if this man had no way to go home, and was tempted.....he may have gone to a brothel. He may have slept with multiple women to fulfill his desires. In this sense it makes sense for the general 'health' of the community (imagine all the STDs he would bring back to his wife) for him to not sleep with prostitues. It seemed like a better idea for him to marry 'temporarily' (and only have sex with one woman). Before returning back. This, however, was not a 'only helps the man' agreement....the women who would usually participate in mutah were usually widows, many with children. For the say 6 months that man was temporarily married to her he would provide for her and her family. Win / Win

When you look at those original intentions it is easy to see why they may have been more permissible in such context. But now? Not so much. I agree there may be times where that is necessary but the majority of guys who want it now want it for what I like to call 'lazy' reasons. These guys just want sex without the hassle. I wish to ask of all those single guys who want free sex this: Why will you not get married? Like legit married? Then you can have all the halal sex you want? Why? because they are lazy. Of the boys that I see in my community they do not want to accept responsiblity. In order to get married you have to man up and provide for your family. You need to get a job, work hard, provide housing, food and other necessities for your wife (another thing Islam has said to do ;P) SOOO many Aunties that I know have complained that they cannot get their sons to marry. One of them...it was hilarious.... at the age of 25.....his mom says why wont you get married? He replies "But mom Im stil a kid.....I can't handle that! I need time to mature more". Yet same guy...if you ask him if he wants to participate in online discreet fast and easy mutah sex....I doubt he would say no :P

Half our deen is focused on getting married. We all know it. Yet more and more men boys are not willing to take up that responsiblity in this day and age. They have their excuses: "But I am still in school, But I dont have a good job, but I need to find myself first, but there are no decent girls out there" etc etc

SO ...to make a REALLY long story short...for me...as a girl....when I see an unmarried young guy want mutah....well I feel really disgusted. Sorry but thats just how I feel. why are you spending all your time looking for a girl to have a temporary relationship with when you could be putting that time into marrying a girl and making an honest woman out of her? Why dont you put that time into completing half your deen?

Salam o alykum..

I read all of your important points. Oky so never done any muta or anything like that.. Will you marry me?

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I have a question for the poster. Do you really REALLY not know the answer to your question? I don't mean offence by it but it baffles my mind why you wouldnt.

First of all, I would like to know the reasoning behind why you are wondering why there arent more women who just want to have open sex with you? I mean sure its a nice fantasy...but I am pretty sure that every man in every religion in every country in the world is wondering why women wont have sex with him easily? with no effort? :P lol

But on a serious note, if you boys are truly scratching your heads as to why.....here is my opinion as a girl who would never ever do it. I don't mean to be judgmental or angry or anything about it I am just expressing how I TRULY feel about the issue (and suspect other girls may feel about)

1) Double standard : I think it is because men generally have a double standard on the issue and either play dumb about it or dont fully realize it. Let me ask you this. If you were looking for a life partner, for someone to marry and have kids with and grow old with....I am assuming you woudl want a virgin. Even if you didn't....how would you feel if your potential life partner says "Yah I have slept with 25 other muslim guys....but dont worry! It was mutah! So its ok!!! :) " Would you still want to marry this woman? Its obvious that you would not. Why? Because our religion praises purity (for BOTH sexes). Its funny because you say that in this day and age living in the western world mutah should be more easily accessible because of the temptation. I think thats just stupid. What you are saying is "I want to find a girl, assure her that once I have used her body I do not intend on having a serious relationship with her".....you basically want a one night stand (or many nights :P) So tell me how is this different than the 'western' standard of picking up a girl at a bar? Its NOT. You may not be doing it at a bar but its the same principle. You want mutah as a way to avoid temptation...yet you are giving in to temptation....Then we go and look down on such practices and deem them sinful and bad when they do it....yet you want to do basically the same thing....under a thin mask of 'oh but its ok religiously'

No. its not. **see last point**

The best/worst part of it is that a 'western' girl who goes to a bar and gets picked up and goes through the one night stand thing....it doesnt 'ruin her reputation' or chances of remarriage. Sure if she does it constantly it could but honestly a lot of western men dont CARE. THATS the major difference here. A white guy bangs a random girl every weekend....but when he settles down he doesn't give a damn if the girl did the same thing. Even guys who arent like that dont care about how many sexual partners the girl has had.

But for muslims its COMPLETLY different! The girl doesnt bounce back from something like that.

And as a side note, how would you feel if a random guy wanted to sleep with your sister/mother/daughter....same feelings?

2) NO EFFORT? But what is even worse is that what you propose " Instead of dating and having girl friends why not explain or have a process set up for both sexes to find each other easily. Either at locations or online to keep it discreet." is so very degrading to women....do you not realize that? Instead of DATING AND HAVING GIRLFRIENDS you just want sex. At least the poor western guy has to buy the girl dinner, has to woo her, take her to coffee, listen to her blah blah blah about everything etc in the HOPES of getting sex. You are saying ok, listen, I dont care who you are I just want sex.....but I dont want to put time/effort/energy etc in it I want it hassle free. I'll find you online. I'll have sex with you. Then I will keep it discreet. If I see you in public I will ignore you....I wouldnt want that good pure girl I am thinking of marrying and having a family with know that I slept with you. Again, how would you feel if a man did that to your mother/sister/wife?

Because reality check guys....girls dont want guys who have had premarital sex either. Well I can't speak for other girls but I can speak for myself. I would not want to marry a man who has done that....now I know some of you will whine and say 'BUT ISLAM SAYS ITS OK WHY ARE YOU SAYING IT ISNT" My answer? Islam also doesnt MAKE me marry a man I am not attracted to. And I for one am not attracted to the idea of marrying a guy who has had premarital sex. If I was able to preserve myself for marriage I expect that of my spouse. If I myself had sex before marriage I wouldnt mind it if the guy did too....but thats just the thing....muslim guys dont want girls who have had sex before marriage. simple as that.

3) Emotional Connections - Women, unlike men, form deep emotional connections every time they have sex, while men do not. Its a scientific fact. Womens brains give off a hormone that triggers deep emotions/love for the person they are having sex with ...yet that does not happen to the guy. Once the guy has had his fun he can walk away with no attachment...much different story for the girl.

4) Lazy Men Boys - Finally I think the biggest issue with mutah the way most young men want to use it these days is the INTENTIONS behind them. I dont know you who posted this and I will not make the judgment that you fall into this category. Many men dont...but many men do. I think the whole 'intention' behind temporary marriages has been greatly skewed and misrepresented in today's society. Going back to the time of the prophet men would only take on a temporary wife because, say, for example, he was at war.....hundreds of kilometers away from his wife......or away for work etc. In that time there were no cars or trains or planes to get you from point A to B. Perhaps going home was a weeks journey....not something that could be done often. Now if this man had no way to go home, and was tempted.....he may have gone to a brothel. He may have slept with multiple women to fulfill his desires. In this sense it makes sense for the general 'health' of the community (imagine all the STDs he would bring back to his wife) for him to not sleep with prostitues. It seemed like a better idea for him to marry 'temporarily' (and only have sex with one woman). Before returning back. This, however, was not a 'only helps the man' agreement....the women who would usually participate in mutah were usually widows, many with children. For the say 6 months that man was temporarily married to her he would provide for her and her family. Win / Win

When you look at those original intentions it is easy to see why they may have been more permissible in such context. But now? Not so much. I agree there may be times where that is necessary but the majority of guys who want it now want it for what I like to call 'lazy' reasons. These guys just want sex without the hassle. I wish to ask of all those single guys who want free sex this: Why will you not get married? Like legit married? Then you can have all the halal sex you want? Why? because they are lazy. Of the boys that I see in my community they do not want to accept responsiblity. In order to get married you have to man up and provide for your family. You need to get a job, work hard, provide housing, food and other necessities for your wife (another thing Islam has said to do ;P) SOOO many Aunties that I know have complained that they cannot get their sons to marry. One of them...it was hilarious.... at the age of 25.....his mom says why wont you get married? He replies "But mom Im stil a kid.....I can't handle that! I need time to mature more". Yet same guy...if you ask him if he wants to participate in online discreet fast and easy mutah sex....I doubt he would say no :P

Half our deen is focused on getting married. We all know it. Yet more and more men boys are not willing to take up that responsiblity in this day and age. They have their excuses: "But I am still in school, But I dont have a good job, but I need to find myself first, but there are no decent girls out there" etc etc

SO ...to make a REALLY long story short...for me...as a girl....when I see an unmarried young guy want mutah....well I feel really disgusted. Sorry but thats just how I feel. why are you spending all your time looking for a girl to have a temporary relationship with when you could be putting that time into marrying a girl and making an honest woman out of her? Why dont you put that time into completing half your deen?

Wow, all I have to say is a lot of this was very well said. :)

Just because you can, doesn't necessarily mean you should. Humans by nature like to abuse things and as Salam006 said, it was used a lot during wars etc and under different circumstances to how people use mutah nowadays.

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Salam o alykum..

I read all of your important points. Oky so never done any muta or anything like that.. Will you marry me?

---* to report or not to report, tis the question *---; * SCers should be wary of the people whose first post is making light of marriage proposals---and using them to startle the other posters --*

Brother, this is your first post here; would not it be better to tread carefully and respect the fellow SC members instead of making fun of them or taking jibes on them---

Edited by ילדת מלך
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I have a question for the poster. Do you really REALLY not know the answer to your question? I don't mean offence by it but it baffles my mind why you wouldnt.

First of all, I would like to know the reasoning behind why you are wondering why there arent more women who just want to have open sex with you? I mean sure its a nice fantasy...but I am pretty sure that every man in every religion in every country in the world is wondering why women wont have sex with him easily? with no effort? :P lol

But on a serious note, if you boys are truly scratching your heads as to why.....here is my opinion as a girl who would never ever do it. I don't mean to be judgmental or angry or anything about it I am just expressing how I TRULY feel about the issue (and suspect other girls may feel about)

1) Double standard : I think it is because men generally have a double standard on the issue and either play dumb about it or dont fully realize it. Let me ask you this. If you were looking for a life partner, for someone to marry and have kids with and grow old with....I am assuming you woudl want a virgin. Even if you didn't....how would you feel if your potential life partner says "Yah I have slept with 25 other muslim guys....but dont worry! It was mutah! So its ok!!! :) " Would you still want to marry this woman? Its obvious that you would not. Why? Because our religion praises purity (for BOTH sexes). Its funny because you say that in this day and age living in the western world mutah should be more easily accessible because of the temptation. I think thats just stupid. What you are saying is "I want to find a girl, assure her that once I have used her body I do not intend on having a serious relationship with her".....you basically want a one night stand (or many nights :P) So tell me how is this different than the 'western' standard of picking up a girl at a bar? Its NOT. You may not be doing it at a bar but its the same principle. You want mutah as a way to avoid temptation...yet you are giving in to temptation....Then we go and look down on such practices and deem them sinful and bad when they do it....yet you want to do basically the same thing....under a thin mask of 'oh but its ok religiously'

No. its not. **see last point**

The best/worst part of it is that a 'western' girl who goes to a bar and gets picked up and goes through the one night stand thing....it doesnt 'ruin her reputation' or chances of remarriage. Sure if she does it constantly it could but honestly a lot of western men dont CARE. THATS the major difference here. A white guy bangs a random girl every weekend....but when he settles down he doesn't give a damn if the girl did the same thing. Even guys who arent like that dont care about how many sexual partners the girl has had.

But for muslims its COMPLETLY different! The girl doesnt bounce back from something like that.

And as a side note, how would you feel if a random guy wanted to sleep with your sister/mother/daughter....same feelings?

2) NO EFFORT? But what is even worse is that what you propose " Instead of dating and having girl friends why not explain or have a process set up for both sexes to find each other easily. Either at locations or online to keep it discreet." is so very degrading to women....do you not realize that? Instead of DATING AND HAVING GIRLFRIENDS you just want sex. At least the poor western guy has to buy the girl dinner, has to woo her, take her to coffee, listen to her blah blah blah about everything etc in the HOPES of getting sex. You are saying ok, listen, I dont care who you are I just want sex.....but I dont want to put time/effort/energy etc in it I want it hassle free. I'll find you online. I'll have sex with you. Then I will keep it discreet. If I see you in public I will ignore you....I wouldnt want that good pure girl I am thinking of marrying and having a family with know that I slept with you. Again, how would you feel if a man did that to your mother/sister/wife?

Because reality check guys....girls dont want guys who have had premarital sex either. Well I can't speak for other girls but I can speak for myself. I would not want to marry a man who has done that....now I know some of you will whine and say 'BUT ISLAM SAYS ITS OK WHY ARE YOU SAYING IT ISNT" My answer? Islam also doesnt MAKE me marry a man I am not attracted to. And I for one am not attracted to the idea of marrying a guy who has had premarital sex. If I was able to preserve myself for marriage I expect that of my spouse. If I myself had sex before marriage I wouldnt mind it if the guy did too....but thats just the thing....muslim guys dont want girls who have had sex before marriage. simple as that.

3) Emotional Connections - Women, unlike men, form deep emotional connections every time they have sex, while men do not. Its a scientific fact. Womens brains give off a hormone that triggers deep emotions/love for the person they are having sex with ...yet that does not happen to the guy. Once the guy has had his fun he can walk away with no attachment...much different story for the girl.

4) Lazy Men Boys - Finally I think the biggest issue with mutah the way most young men want to use it these days is the INTENTIONS behind them. I dont know you who posted this and I will not make the judgment that you fall into this category. Many men dont...but many men do. I think the whole 'intention' behind temporary marriages has been greatly skewed and misrepresented in today's society. Going back to the time of the prophet men would only take on a temporary wife because, say, for example, he was at war.....hundreds of kilometers away from his wife......or away for work etc. In that time there were no cars or trains or planes to get you from point A to B. Perhaps going home was a weeks journey....not something that could be done often. Now if this man had no way to go home, and was tempted.....he may have gone to a brothel. He may have slept with multiple women to fulfill his desires. In this sense it makes sense for the general 'health' of the community (imagine all the STDs he would bring back to his wife) for him to not sleep with prostitues. It seemed like a better idea for him to marry 'temporarily' (and only have sex with one woman). Before returning back. This, however, was not a 'only helps the man' agreement....the women who would usually participate in mutah were usually widows, many with children. For the say 6 months that man was temporarily married to her he would provide for her and her family. Win / Win

When you look at those original intentions it is easy to see why they may have been more permissible in such context. But now? Not so much. I agree there may be times where that is necessary but the majority of guys who want it now want it for what I like to call 'lazy' reasons. These guys just want sex without the hassle. I wish to ask of all those single guys who want free sex this: Why will you not get married? Like legit married? Then you can have all the halal sex you want? Why? because they are lazy. Of the boys that I see in my community they do not want to accept responsiblity. In order to get married you have to man up and provide for your family. You need to get a job, work hard, provide housing, food and other necessities for your wife (another thing Islam has said to do ;P) SOOO many Aunties that I know have complained that they cannot get their sons to marry. One of them...it was hilarious.... at the age of 25.....his mom says why wont you get married? He replies "But mom Im stil a kid.....I can't handle that! I need time to mature more". Yet same guy...if you ask him if he wants to participate in online discreet fast and easy mutah sex....I doubt he would say no :P

Half our deen is focused on getting married. We all know it. Yet more and more men boys are not willing to take up that responsiblity in this day and age. They have their excuses: "But I am still in school, But I dont have a good job, but I need to find myself first, but there are no decent girls out there" etc etc

SO ...to make a REALLY long story short...for me...as a girl....when I see an unmarried young guy want mutah....well I feel really disgusted. Sorry but thats just how I feel. why are you spending all your time looking for a girl to have a temporary relationship with when you could be putting that time into marrying a girl and making an honest woman out of her? Why dont you put that time into completing half your deen?

So much raw, inane foolishness for one post. Where to start? You don't even know what you don't know. You know?

It always amuses me when bitter naive young virgin girls on here think they're qualified to lecture people here on the complexities of adult relationships.

Edited by kadhim
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So my earlier post was a verbal idiot slap short answer to a truly stupid post. Now for something more long form.

It is mystifying when people try to paint muta'a as some sort of one dimensional, one night stand type deal. These are basically insane bitter rantings of those who have no clue what they are talking about.

What is muta'a, in reality? It is an agreement between two consenting adults to permit themselves to explore the possibilities of an adult relationship together. That is all. What form or path the relationship takes from that point forward is up to the two individuals involved, and as in any relationship in the real world, it will proceed organically rather than mechanically.

Entering a muta'a contract stamps "halalness" on any future relationship activity during the time period up to and including sex. This doesn't mean that the couple is bound to jump into bed with each other the instant the contract is finalized. It is amazing to me that this is something that has to be explained, but clearly a lot of people are confused on this point. It's just not the way it works. People get to know each other, get comfortable with each other, and they take it forward in a natural way as they both feel fit. It's a human relationship negotiated between two people. I know this is a shocking thing, but men and women both are multidimensional in their wants and needs beyond these coarse generalizations. As in, yes, women can be emotional and such, but they also like and want sex as much as men do sometimes. And, as in, men can be more oriented toward the physical, but they also tend to want emotional contact with women. People are complicated. They aren't cookie cutter "types."

Setting aside muta'a as engagement type arrangements, there is going to be a physical component to it, as with any adult relationship. But it's also about simple companionship. Someone to talk to, to spend time with. If you want to understand what a muta'a relationship is usually about, look at a non-Muslim boyfriend/girlfriend type arrangement.

There are a minority of non-Muslims that just have purely sexual one off casual encounters with people, but most people it's boyfriend/girlfriend relationships that are the norm.

Why would someone want to be in a muta'a rather than marrying permanently? For whatever reason. At root, it's a matter of someone wanting basic human romantic companionship but not being in a position emotionally, financially, logistically to settle down for life at that point. Islam allows this institution so that people can enjoy the comfort of human companionship until such point as things change.

That's a succinct, thorough response. Thanks. It'll help me discuss the issue better with my mum , who suffers from the same lack of reasoned thinking, hence hell-bent to undermine mut'a.

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I have a question for the poster. Do you really REALLY not know the answer to your question? I don't mean offence by it but it baffles my mind why you wouldnt.

First of all, I would like to know the reasoning behind why you are wondering why there arent more women who just want to have open sex with you? I mean sure its a nice fantasy...but I am pretty sure that every man in every religion in every country in the world is wondering why women wont have sex with him easily? with no effort? :P lol

But on a serious note, if you boys are truly scratching your heads as to why.....here is my opinion as a girl who would never ever do it. I don't mean to be judgmental or angry or anything about it I am just expressing how I TRULY feel about the issue (and suspect other girls may feel about)

1) Double standard : I think it is because men generally have a double standard on the issue and either play dumb about it or dont fully realize it. Let me ask you this. If you were looking for a life partner, for someone to marry and have kids with and grow old with....I am assuming you woudl want a virgin. Even if you didn't....how would you feel if your potential life partner says "Yah I have slept with 25 other muslim guys....but dont worry! It was mutah! So its ok!!! :) " Would you still want to marry this woman? Its obvious that you would not. Why? Because our religion praises purity (for BOTH sexes). Its funny because you say that in this day and age living in the western world mutah should be more easily accessible because of the temptation. I think thats just stupid. What you are saying is "I want to find a girl, assure her that once I have used her body I do not intend on having a serious relationship with her".....you basically want a one night stand (or many nights :P) So tell me how is this different than the 'western' standard of picking up a girl at a bar? Its NOT. You may not be doing it at a bar but its the same principle. You want mutah as a way to avoid temptation...yet you are giving in to temptation....Then we go and look down on such practices and deem them sinful and bad when they do it....yet you want to do basically the same thing....under a thin mask of 'oh but its ok religiously'

Salam

I think you are assuming on that first point. While it's true that most guys would want a virgin, if they had a choice between a virgin who didn't have the other qualities they are looking for (looks, level of commitment to Islam, etc) vs. a non virgin who did have the other qualities they were looking for, many times they will go for the non virgin. The equation is not as simple as you make it out to be.

I know many brothers who married non virgins (widowed, divorced, which is very common now, and some who previously did mutah). For myself, from the beginning, I wanted a muhajibah who was committed to Islamic morals and had a love for Ahl Al Bayt, and someone I could get along with, personality wise. If I met a sister who had all these qualities (plus I had some requirements for looks, but this wasn't at the top of the list) and she wasn't a virgin, and even if she had been with a few other guys and had valid aqid of mutah, observed the iddah, and I knew she wasn't generally, 'overly friendly' with non mahram men, I definitely would have considered her. I am not unusual with this and I had this conversation with many brothers and most agreed with me, but there were a few who didn't. What makes most guys not want to marry a girl is if she is 'friendly' with many different men, even if she isn't married to them or hasn't physically touched them.

Also there are many women who lie about this issue. They have been with other guys, either zina or mutah or 'virtual' haram relationships and don't tell their husband before getting married and later they find out about it thru other guys, or the guys they have done these things with. This is alot higher on the fear scale for brothers vs. a sister who had a few relationships in the past, but they were legal (Islamically) relationships and she is honest about them from the beginning.

In my experience, it is parents who perpetuate this myth that 'once you lose your virginity, noone will want to marry you'. They do this, mostly, out of self interest and to preserve their idea of 'dignity' and 'reputation'. It is also some cultural muslims who value culture over Islam. They want to control the women and want to choose their spouse for them without their consent, something which Islam is against, btw. I will respond to other points later, InShahAllah. Thank you for being honest and clear about your opinions.

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So much raw, inane foolishness for one post. Where to start? You don't even know what you don't know. You know?

It always amuses me when bitter naive young virgin girls on here think they're qualified to lecture people here on the complexities of adult relationships.

wow. I thought the OP was asking for a girl's view on the matter. And yet you attack it? If you dont want to hear someone's opinion don't ask for it :P

But then again your anger kind of reaffirms my views for me. What is it they say? "don't raise your voice improve your argument" ? Or in internet terms "dont hate, imporve your argument"

An argument with any merit on its own does not require you to be insulting. Just sayinnn

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But then again your anger kind of reaffirms my views for me. What is it they say? "don't raise your voice improve your argument" ? Or in internet terms "dont hate, imporve your argument"

He did. I refer you to post #40, in case you missed it. Post #39 is an idiot slap, as Kadhim put it, indicating your lack of coherency.

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So my earlier post was a verbal idiot slap short answer to a truly stupid post. Now for something more long form.

It is mystifying when people try to paint muta'a as some sort of one dimensional, one night stand type deal. These are basically insane bitter rantings of those who have no clue what they are talking about.

What is muta'a, in reality? It is an agreement between two consenting adults to permit themselves to explore the possibilities of an adult relationship together. That is all. What form or path the relationship takes from that point forward is up to the two individuals involved, and as in any relationship in the real world, it will proceed organically rather than mechanically.

Entering a muta'a contract stamps "halalness" on any future relationship activity during the time period up to and including sex. This doesn't mean that the couple is bound to jump into bed with each other the instant the contract is finalized. It is amazing to me that this is something that has to be explained, but clearly a lot of people are confused on this point. It's just not the way it works. People get to know each other, get comfortable with each other, and they take it forward in a natural way as they both feel fit. It's a human relationship negotiated between two people. I know this is a shocking thing, but men and women both are multidimensional in their wants and needs beyond these coarse generalizations. As in, yes, women can be emotional and such, but they also like and want sex as much as men do sometimes. And, as in, men can be more oriented toward the physical, but they also tend to want emotional contact with women. People are complicated. They aren't cookie cutter "types."

Setting aside muta'a as engagement type arrangements, there is going to be a physical component to it, as with any adult relationship. But it's also about simple companionship. Someone to talk to, to spend time with. If you want to understand what a muta'a relationship is usually about, look at a non-Muslim boyfriend/girlfriend type arrangement.

There are a minority of non-Muslims that just have purely sexual one off casual encounters with people, but most people it's boyfriend/girlfriend relationships that are the norm.

Why would someone want to be in a muta'a rather than marrying permanently? For whatever reason. At root, it's a matter of someone wanting basic human romantic companionship but not being in a position emotionally, financially, logistically to settle down for life at that point. Islam allows this institution so that people can enjoy the comfort of human companionship until such point as things change.

and to answer your long form, it is amusing to me that you would skip over the MAIN POINT I was trying to make and instead spew a bunch of irrelevant stuff. But I shall address it anyways in a polite manner because that is what civilized and well educated people do.

Firstly, I never intended to make mutah out as a ‘one dimensional’ robot sex thing. Its sad that you interpreted thusly. I was not trying to discuss or interpret the large issue of mutah within Islam and society for that is not my place to interpret. I will leave that for the Imams and those more well versed on the matter. Therefore, yes, I do agree with your definition of Mutah and I don’t see all forms of it as bad. In fact, instead of getting enraged about my opinions, you should re-read my post more carefully. Like the parts where I said “I dont know you who posted this and I will not make the judgment that you fall into this category. Many men dont...but many men do. I think the whole 'intention' behind temporary marriages has been greatly skewed and misrepresented in today's society.” What I was clearly saying is that not everyone misuses mutah. Many use it for good reasons. I know of quite a few couples who have entered mutah with the INTENTION of getting married permanently and use mutah as a trial period. I don’t see anything wrong with this. They are adults and can do whatever they want. Like I said, the importance in all this is the INTENTION behind the decision to go through with mutah.

Of course there are many people who use mutah as it should be and what it is intended for. My post was responding to the poster who said “why are the men struggling to find woman to accept this process and why is it not looked upon in a positive way to help out each other?” and “Instead of dating and having girl friends why not explain or have a process set up for both sexes to find each other easily. Either at locations or online to keep it discreet.”

Now, correct me please if I am wrong, but this is not a man searching for a committed relationship. This comes off to me as men who want sex. I mean if it’s a relationship they want then it really shouldn’t be hard to find a girl. If it’s a relationship you want that is HALAL why do you want it to be discreet? If your end goal is to find a girl you are compatible with and wish to one day perhaps marry, then you will not start persuading her with HEY I AM ONLY IN THIS IF YOU ARE INTO MUTAH. No. First you get to know each other in the very basic way. Go forward honestly and claim your intentions of marrying her. Then, once basic compatibility is determined you can discuss mutah. Don’t go up to someone and say heyyyyyy gurrllll I want to enter a mutah contract with youuuu.

So, in conclusion, I am not saying all forms of mutah are bad or that all men want it for bad reasons. I am saying that those who want mutah simply for the sex, and you would be lying if you said there aren’t men who are seeking it for that reason, are a little delusional when they don’t realize why girls aren’t running into it.

And to your point, that all these people want is a relationship like boyfriends/girlfriends:

“If you want to understand what a muta'a relationship is usually about, look at a non-Muslim boyfriend/girlfriend type arrangement.”

So you are in essence saying you want a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship right? Well then first of all, it clearly does not fall into the category of people I am discussing (who just want a sexual relationship). Second of all, it is interesting how you want a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship (something not looked at in a positive light in Islam) and yet you are trying to go around it by using mutah. Of course there are different levels of mutah…from the ‘getting to know each other’ level to the ‘be together for 2 years level’. Very different intentions behind both of them I think.

Finally, I think it is funny that you conveniently skipped over my major point so I will readdress it. Forgetting those who are engaging in mutah in order to get to know someone better for the serious intention of marrying them (because that is not who my post is about), for those who are seeking mutah because of either the purely sexual element or the intention of being in a relationship for companionship (yet have no intention of entering a permanent marriage)….why do you not just get MARRIED? Like legit married. Its those people who ‘abuse’ the true intentions behind mutah that really piss me off and who my post was directed to.

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Salam

I think you are assuming on that first point. While it's true that most guys would want a virgin, if they had a choice between a virgin who didn't have the other qualities they are looking for (looks, level of commitment to Islam, etc) vs. a non virgin who did have the other qualities they were looking for, many times they will go for the non virgin. The equation is not as simple as you make it out to be.

I know many brothers who married non virgins (widowed, divorced, which is very common now, and some who previously did mutah). For myself, from the beginning, I wanted a muhajibah who was committed to Islamic morals and had a love for Ahl Al Bayt, and someone I could get along with, personality wise. If I met a sister who had all these qualities (plus I had some requirements for looks, but this wasn't at the top of the list) and she wasn't a virgin, and even if she had been with a few other guys and had valid aqid of mutah, observed the iddah, and I knew she wasn't generally, 'overly friendly' with non mahram men, I definitely would have considered her. I am not unusual with this and I had this conversation with many brothers and most agreed with me, but there were a few who didn't. What makes most guys not want to marry a girl is if she is 'friendly' with many different men, even if she isn't married to them or hasn't physically touched them.

Also there are many women who lie about this issue. They have been with other guys, either zina or mutah or 'virtual' haram relationships and don't tell their husband before getting married and later they find out about it thru other guys, or the guys they have done these things with. This is alot higher on the fear scale for brothers vs. a sister who had a few relationships in the past, but they were legal (Islamically) relationships and she is honest about them from the beginning.

In my experience, it is parents who perpetuate this myth that 'once you lose your virginity, noone will want to marry you'. They do this, mostly, out of self interest and to preserve their idea of 'dignity' and 'reputation'. It is also some cultural muslims who value culture over Islam. They want to control the women and want to choose their spouse for them without their consent, something which Islam is against, btw. I will respond to other points later, InShahAllah. Thank you for being honest and clear about your opinions.

Salam,

Thank you for your post and I agree with what you say. I am not saying that every man ever has this preference. Because it is obvious that is not the case. I myself know of men and women who have married one another without them being virgins (Ie. Divorcees/widows etc). Obviously no man in his right mind would NOT marry the woman of his dreams based purely on the fact that she was with another man before him.

However, having said all this, you almost hint at your un-comfortableness with the issue as well? Correct me if I am wrong cause I am not trying to make any accusation here J But you say as long as the girl did it in a halal way, it would be ok with you . You then say that man girls lie about their past and that’s a bigger issue for guys than girls. Are you not then saying that the fact they lied about being a virgin is a bigger issue for boys? Or did I misunderstand that?

As well you say many girls lie. Well then how would you know they did not lie about it being mutah or zina? I suppose you could ask for proof of a contract? But what if it was a verbal contract ( I do believe those are valid)…or what if she says the written contract was thrown away when requirements were fulfilled. Would you require to go through each girl’s files? :P LOL

And I do not think that the idea of being pure is something that is perpetuated by families for cultural reasons….or to force them into unwanted marriages. Are you saying Islam does not praise purity? And is it not the case that a woman needs her fathers permission before marriage? In fact, if you end up having a daughter one day, and at 16 she comes to you and says “father, I want to have a mutah relationship with a boy I like” What would you say? Heck, lets say at an older age so you cant chalk it up to childish foolishness. If at 23 she comes to you and says, I want a boyfriend and would like to enter a mutah relationship with him. Not sure if we will ever permanently get married, we just want to have a relationship like all my other western friends do. Sure he isn’t muslim, but don’t worry he will convert!” What would you honestly say to her? Would you give her your blessing? I don’t know. Maybe you would. But then again it would be hypocritical for you not to if you were willing to enter such a relationship with other women.

What if you do not consent? Feeling that such a boy would not make your daughter happy and is bad news for her in the end. If you deny her the right to enter such a relationship in favor of hopefully finding someone more suitable….is that you forcing her to marry someone she does not like?

I don’t say these things as a way to provoke or anger but genuinely for ‘food for thought’. I am sure there are many fathers out there who would consent to this. But I am sure there are many many manyyyyy more who would not. Which do you think you would fall in to?

But that is a bit off topic….to conclude, what I am saying is that yes there are manu open minded people who do not mind. But there are many more who do. (Especially those pesky mother-in-laws :P ;) )

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wow. I thought the OP was asking for a girl's view on the matter. And yet you attack it? If you dont want to hear someone's opinion don't ask for it :P

But then again your anger kind of reaffirms my views for me. What is it they say? "don't raise your voice improve your argument" ? Or in internet terms "dont hate, imporve your argument"

An argument with any merit on its own does not require you to be insulting. Just sayinnn

You don't have "a view." You have "feelings." There's a difference. To have a "view" on something, you would need to have first attempted to understand it by obtaining some basic facts. Opinions in the absence of any grasp of facts rooted in actual consensual reality are not worth anyone's time.

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I have a question for the poster. Do you really REALLY not know the answer to your question? I don't mean offence by it but it baffles my mind why you wouldnt.

First of all, I would like to know the reasoning behind why you are wondering why there arent more women who just want to have open sex with you? I mean sure its a nice fantasy...but I am pretty sure that every man in every religion in every country in the world is wondering why women wont have sex with him easily? with no effort? :P lol

But on a serious note, if you boys are truly scratching your heads as to why.....here is my opinion as a girl who would never ever do it. I don't mean to be judgmental or angry or anything about it I am just expressing how I TRULY feel about the issue (and suspect other girls may feel about)

1) Double standard : I think it is because men generally have a double standard on the issue and either play dumb about it or dont fully realize it. Let me ask you this. If you were looking for a life partner, for someone to marry and have kids with and grow old with....I am assuming you woudl want a virgin. Even if you didn't....how would you feel if your potential life partner says "Yah I have slept with 25 other muslim guys....but dont worry! It was mutah! So its ok!!! :) " Would you still want to marry this woman? Its obvious that you would not. Why? Because our religion praises purity (for BOTH sexes). Its funny because you say that in this day and age living in the western world mutah should be more easily accessible because of the temptation. I think thats just stupid. What you are saying is "I want to find a girl, assure her that once I have used her body I do not intend on having a serious relationship with her".....you basically want a one night stand (or many nights :P) So tell me how is this different than the 'western' standard of picking up a girl at a bar? Its NOT. You may not be doing it at a bar but its the same principle. You want mutah as a way to avoid temptation...yet you are giving in to temptation....Then we go and look down on such practices and deem them sinful and bad when they do it....yet you want to do basically the same thing....under a thin mask of 'oh but its ok religiously'

No. its not. **see last point**

The best/worst part of it is that a 'western' girl who goes to a bar and gets picked up and goes through the one night stand thing....it doesnt 'ruin her reputation' or chances of remarriage. Sure if she does it constantly it could but honestly a lot of western men dont CARE. THATS the major difference here. A white guy bangs a random girl every weekend....but when he settles down he doesn't give a damn if the girl did the same thing. Even guys who arent like that dont care about how many sexual partners the girl has had.

But for muslims its COMPLETLY different! The girl doesnt bounce back from something like that.

And as a side note, how would you feel if a random guy wanted to sleep with your sister/mother/daughter....same feelings?

2) NO EFFORT? But what is even worse is that what you propose " Instead of dating and having girl friends why not explain or have a process set up for both sexes to find each other easily. Either at locations or online to keep it discreet." is so very degrading to women....do you not realize that? Instead of DATING AND HAVING GIRLFRIENDS you just want sex. At least the poor western guy has to buy the girl dinner, has to woo her, take her to coffee, listen to her blah blah blah about everything etc in the HOPES of getting sex. You are saying ok, listen, I dont care who you are I just want sex.....but I dont want to put time/effort/energy etc in it I want it hassle free. I'll find you online. I'll have sex with you. Then I will keep it discreet. If I see you in public I will ignore you....I wouldnt want that good pure girl I am thinking of marrying and having a family with know that I slept with you. Again, how would you feel if a man did that to your mother/sister/wife?

Because reality check guys....girls dont want guys who have had premarital sex either. Well I can't speak for other girls but I can speak for myself. I would not want to marry a man who has done that....now I know some of you will whine and say 'BUT ISLAM SAYS ITS OK WHY ARE YOU SAYING IT ISNT" My answer? Islam also doesnt MAKE me marry a man I am not attracted to. And I for one am not attracted to the idea of marrying a guy who has had premarital sex. If I was able to preserve myself for marriage I expect that of my spouse. If I myself had sex before marriage I wouldnt mind it if the guy did too....but thats just the thing....muslim guys dont want girls who have had sex before marriage. simple as that.

3) Emotional Connections - Women, unlike men, form deep emotional connections every time they have sex, while men do not. Its a scientific fact. Womens brains give off a hormone that triggers deep emotions/love for the person they are having sex with ...yet that does not happen to the guy. Once the guy has had his fun he can walk away with no attachment...much different story for the girl.

4) Lazy Men Boys - Finally I think the biggest issue with mutah the way most young men want to use it these days is the INTENTIONS behind them. I dont know you who posted this and I will not make the judgment that you fall into this category. Many men dont...but many men do. I think the whole 'intention' behind temporary marriages has been greatly skewed and misrepresented in today's society. Going back to the time of the prophet men would only take on a temporary wife because, say, for example, he was at war.....hundreds of kilometers away from his wife......or away for work etc. In that time there were no cars or trains or planes to get you from point A to B. Perhaps going home was a weeks journey....not something that could be done often. Now if this man had no way to go home, and was tempted.....he may have gone to a brothel. He may have slept with multiple women to fulfill his desires. In this sense it makes sense for the general 'health' of the community (imagine all the STDs he would bring back to his wife) for him to not sleep with prostitues. It seemed like a better idea for him to marry 'temporarily' (and only have sex with one woman). Before returning back. This, however, was not a 'only helps the man' agreement....the women who would usually participate in mutah were usually widows, many with children. For the say 6 months that man was temporarily married to her he would provide for her and her family. Win / Win

When you look at those original intentions it is easy to see why they may have been more permissible in such context. But now? Not so much. I agree there may be times where that is necessary but the majority of guys who want it now want it for what I like to call 'lazy' reasons. These guys just want sex without the hassle. I wish to ask of all those single guys who want free sex this: Why will you not get married? Like legit married? Then you can have all the halal sex you want? Why? because they are lazy. Of the boys that I see in my community they do not want to accept responsiblity. In order to get married you have to man up and provide for your family. You need to get a job, work hard, provide housing, food and other necessities for your wife (another thing Islam has said to do ;P) SOOO many Aunties that I know have complained that they cannot get their sons to marry. One of them...it was hilarious.... at the age of 25.....his mom says why wont you get married? He replies "But mom Im stil a kid.....I can't handle that! I need time to mature more". Yet same guy...if you ask him if he wants to participate in online discreet fast and easy mutah sex....I doubt he would say no :P

Half our deen is focused on getting married. We all know it. Yet more and more men boys are not willing to take up that responsiblity in this day and age. They have their excuses: "But I am still in school, But I dont have a good job, but I need to find myself first, but there are no decent girls out there" etc etc

SO ...to make a REALLY long story short...for me...as a girl....when I see an unmarried young guy want mutah....well I feel really disgusted. Sorry but thats just how I feel. why are you spending all your time looking for a girl to have a temporary relationship with when you could be putting that time into marrying a girl and making an honest woman out of her? Why dont you put that time into completing half your deen?

Excellent post Sister. It's very rare to see a female perspective on Mutah on this forum. Usually it's just young virgin males expressing their frustrations and sexual fantasies.

Mutah may well be permissible but only in extreme circumstances - the same way that eating pig is permissible if we are starving etc. Thankfully it is considered taboo and not practised by the majority of Twelvers. The fascinating thing is how the tiny minority of people who do practice Mutah, use it to conform to a Western lifestyle. A very strange way of using (abusing) Islam to mirror secular morality.

Girls might consider Mutah as form of "engagement" before full marriage. However there is no such thing as engagements in Islam, and the very definition of Mutah is for "pleasure", not for "getting to know someone".

Boys use Mutah to have "girlfriends" while they are young, before they eventually settle down and get a proper wife. Basically following the Western concepts of "dating" and having casual sex prior to marriage. One of the main criticisms that Muslims have about modern society.

Ultimately Mutah will remain a very controversial issue for Twelvers as it contradicts so much of the basic foundations of Islam and makes a mockery of the value of marriage and chastity. Fortunately most parents and their daughters are strongly against Mutah, which is the way it should be.

The reality is that Mutah will never become widespread, despite being constantly talked about by desperate virgins.

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Salam,

Thank you for your post and I agree with what you say. I am not saying that every man ever has this preference. Because it is obvious that is not the case. I myself know of men and women who have married one another without them being virgins (Ie. Divorcees/widows etc). Obviously no man in his right mind would NOT marry the woman of his dreams based purely on the fact that she was with another man before him.

However, having said all this, you almost hint at your un-comfortableness with the issue as well? Correct me if I am wrong cause I am not trying to make any accusation here J But you say as long as the girl did it in a halal way, it would be ok with you . You then say that man girls lie about their past and that’s a bigger issue for guys than girls. Are you not then saying that the fact they lied about being a virgin is a bigger issue for boys? Or did I misunderstand that?

It's the lie that's the big issue for boys. Speaking for most brothers, we can tolerate alot of things but having a wife you cannot trust is something that is very difficult to deal with, even for those with lots of sabr.

As well you say many girls lie. Well then how would you know they did not lie about it being mutah or zina? I suppose you could ask for proof of a contract? But what if it was a verbal contract ( I do believe those are valid)…or what if she says the written contract was thrown away when requirements were fulfilled. Would you require to go through each girl’s files? :P LOL

If she says it was mutah, I would believe her, no evidence required. If she was honest about the other questions, she would probably be honest about this also.

And I do not think that the idea of being pure is something that is perpetuated by families for cultural reasons….or to force them into unwanted marriages. Are you saying Islam does not praise purity? And is it not the case that a woman needs her fathers permission before marriage? In fact, if you end up having a daughter one day, and at 16 she comes to you and says “father, I want to have a mutah relationship with a boy I like” What would you say? Heck, lets say at an older age so you cant chalk it up to childish foolishness. If at 23 she comes to you and says, I want a boyfriend and would like to enter a mutah relationship with him. Not sure if we will ever permanently get married, we just want to have a relationship like all my other western friends do. Sure he isn’t muslim, but don’t worry he will convert!” What would you honestly say to her? Would you give her your blessing? I don’t know. Maybe you would. But then again it would be hypocritical for you not to if you were willing to enter such a relationship with other women.

What if you do not consent? Feeling that such a boy would not make your daughter happy and is bad news for her in the end. If you deny her the right to enter such a relationship in favor of hopefully finding someone more suitable….is that you forcing her to marry someone she does not like?

I don’t say these things as a way to provoke or anger but genuinely for ‘food for thought’. I am sure there are many fathers out there who would consent to this. But I am sure there are many many manyyyyy more who would not. Which do you think you would fall in to?

But that is a bit off topic….to conclude, what I am saying is that yes there are manu open minded people who do not mind. But there are many more who do. (Especially those pesky mother-in-laws :P ;) )

The concept of 'purity' is often misunderstood. There is the cultural idea of 'purity' which varies from culture to culture. Then there is the Islamic idea of purity. The Islamic idea of purity is that someone who believes in Allah(s.w.a), accepts that Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h) is the Messenger of Allah(s.w.a), accepts the Wilayat of the Imams of Ahl Al Bayt and strives to live their life according to the teaching of Prophet(p.b.u.h) and Ahl Al Bayt(a.s) is pure and their actions are characterized by purity. If a women does mutah according to teaching of Ahl Al Bayt(a.s) she is pure and her actions are characterized by purity. There are even some hadith that a women who does mutah is cleansed of her sins.

A proof of this is that the Prophet(p.b.u.h) and Imams(a.s) were considered the pinnacle of purity. They married women who were widowed and divorced (i.e. had been with other men). If there was anything 'impure' about this, do you think the would have married these women ?

This shows that, from an Islamic perspective, these women were pure and the Prophet(p.b.u.h) and Imams(a.s) didn't consider these women any less of their wife and didn't behave differently with them vs. the women who they married when they were virgins.

Then there is the cultural idea of purity. This idea treats women like merchandise, with one price for open 'package' and another price for unopened 'package'. The women is assigned a value based on the presence or absence of a very thin patch of skin, not based on her Iman and Taqwa.

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It seems like my previous post did not come through. I posted this and waited for moderator approval but I guess they did not approve? lol Lets try again.

--------

So my earlier post was a verbal idiot slap short answer to a truly stupid post. Now for something more long form.

It is mystifying when people try to paint muta'a as some sort of one dimensional, one night stand type deal. These are basically insane bitter rantings of those who have no clue what they are talking about.

What is muta'a, in reality? It is an agreement between two consenting adults to permit themselves to explore the possibilities of an adult relationship together. That is all. What form or path the relationship takes from that point forward is up to the two individuals involved, and as in any relationship in the real world, it will proceed organically rather than mechanically.

Entering a muta'a contract stamps "halalness" on any future relationship activity during the time period up to and including sex. This doesn't mean that the couple is bound to jump into bed with each other the instant the contract is finalized. It is amazing to me that this is something that has to be explained, but clearly a lot of people are confused on this point. It's just not the way it works. People get to know each other, get comfortable with each other, and they take it forward in a natural way as they both feel fit. It's a human relationship negotiated between two people. I know this is a shocking thing, but men and women both are multidimensional in their wants and needs beyond these coarse generalizations. As in, yes, women can be emotional and such, but they also like and want sex as much as men do sometimes. And, as in, men can be more oriented toward the physical, but they also tend to want emotional contact with women. People are complicated. They aren't cookie cutter "types."

Setting aside muta'a as engagement type arrangements, there is going to be a physical component to it, as with any adult relationship. But it's also about simple companionship. Someone to talk to, to spend time with. If you want to understand what a muta'a relationship is usually about, look at a non-Muslim boyfriend/girlfriend type arrangement.

There are a minority of non-Muslims that just have purely sexual one off casual encounters with people, but most people it's boyfriend/girlfriend relationships that are the norm.

Why would someone want to be in a muta'a rather than marrying permanently? For whatever reason. At root, it's a matter of someone wanting basic human romantic companionship but not being in a position emotionally, financially, logistically to settle down for life at that point. Islam allows this institution so that people can enjoy the comfort of human companionship until such point as things change.

and to answer your long form, it is amusing to me that you would skip over the MAIN POINT I was trying to make and instead spew a bunch of irrelevant stuff. But I shall address it anyways in a polite manner because that is what civilized and well educated people do.

Firstly, I never intended to make mutah out as a ‘one dimensional’ robot sex thing. Its sad that you interpreted thusly. I was not trying to discuss or interpret the large issue of mutah within Islam and society for that is not my place to interpret. I will leave that for the Imams and those more well versed on the matter. Therefore, yes, I do agree with your definition of Mutah and I don’t see all forms of it as bad. In fact, instead of getting enraged about my opinions, you should re-read my post more carefully. Like the parts where I said “I dont know you who posted this and I will not make the judgment that you fall into this category. Many men dont...but many men do. I think the whole 'intention' behind temporary marriages has been greatly skewed and misrepresented in today's society.” What I was clearly saying is that not everyone misuses mutah. Many use it for good reasons. I know of quite a few couples who have entered mutah with the INTENTION of getting married permanently and use mutah as a trial period. I don’t see anything wrong with this. They are adults and can do whatever they want. Like I said, the importance in all this is the INTENTION behind the decision to go through with mutah.

Of course there are many people who use mutah as it should be and what it is intended for. My post was responding to the poster who said “why are the men struggling to find woman to accept this process and why is it not looked upon in a positive way to help out each other?” and “Instead of dating and having girl friends why not explain or have a process set up for both sexes to find each other easily. Either at locations or online to keep it discreet.”

Now, correct me please if I am wrong, but this is not a man searching for a committed relationship. This comes off to me as men who want sex. I mean if it’s a relationship they want then it really shouldn’t be hard to find a girl. If it’s a relationship you want that is HALAL why do you want it to be discreet? If your end goal is to find a girl you are compatible with and wish to one day perhaps marry, then you will not start persuading her with HEY I AM ONLY IN THIS IF YOU ARE INTO MUTAH. No. First you get to know each other in the very basic way. Go forward honestly and claim your intentions of marrying her. Then, once basic compatibility is determined you can discuss mutah. Don’t go up to someone and say heyyyyyy gurrllll I want to enter a mutah contract with youuuu.

So, in conclusion, I am not saying all forms of mutah are bad or that all men want it for bad reasons. I am saying that those who want mutah simply for the sex, and you would be lying if you said there aren’t men who are seeking it for that reason, are a little delusional when they don’t realize why girls aren’t running into it.

And to your point, that all these people want is a relationship like boyfriends/girlfriends:

“If you want to understand what a muta'a relationship is usually about, look at a non-Muslim boyfriend/girlfriend type arrangement.”

So you are in essence saying you want a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship right? Well then first of all, it clearly does not fall into the category of people I am discussing (who just want a sexual relationship). Second of all, it is interesting how you want a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship (something not looked at in a positive light in Islam) and yet you are trying to go around it by using mutah. Of course there are different levels of mutah…from the ‘getting to know each other’ level to the ‘be together for 2 years level’. Very different intentions behind both of them I think.

Finally, I think it is funny that you conveniently skipped over my major point so I will readdress it. Forgetting those who are engaging in mutah in order to get to know someone better for the serious intention of marrying them (because that is not who my post is about), for those who are seeking mutah because of either the purely sexual element or the intention of being in a relationship for companionship (yet have no intention of entering a permanent marriage)….why do you not just get MARRIED? Like legit married. Its those people who ‘abuse’ the true intentions behind mutah that really piss me off and who my post was directed to.

The concept of 'purity' is often misunderstood. There is the cultural idea of 'purity' which varies from culture to culture. Then there is the Islamic idea of purity. The Islamic idea of purity is that someone who believes in Allah(s.w.a), accepts that Prophet Muhammad(p.b.u.h) is the Messenger of Allah(s.w.a), accepts the Wilayat of the Imams of Ahl Al Bayt and strives to live their life according to the teaching of Prophet(p.b.u.h) and Ahl Al Bayt(a.s) is pure and their actions are characterized by purity. If a women does mutah according to teaching of Ahl Al Bayt(a.s) she is pure and her actions are characterized by purity. There are even some hadith that a women who does mutah is cleansed of her sins.

A proof of this is that the Prophet(p.b.u.h) and Imams(a.s) were considered the pinnacle of purity. They married women who were widowed and divorced (i.e. had been with other men). If there was anything 'impure' about this, do you think the would have married these women ?

This shows that, from an Islamic perspective, these women were pure and the Prophet(p.b.u.h) and Imams(a.s) didn't consider these women any less of their wife and didn't behave differently with them vs. the women who they married when they were virgins.

Then there is the cultural idea of purity. This idea treats women like merchandise, with one price for open 'package' and another price for unopened 'package'. The women is assigned a value based on the presence or absence of a very thin patch of skin, not based on her Iman and Taqwa.

Your point on purity is an interesting one. I agree that the cultural definition and religious ones would be different. I also agree that ones purity should not be tied directly to their virginity.

However what I deem confusing in all of this is how do you distinguish really between someone who has done muta or who has done zina? I mean sure you take her word for it and she would take his word for it. But as soon as someone lies in the relationship (and people lie...big or small no one is perfect...people lie....) then you may be pushed to perhaps think that other things said are a lie....no? You say you would base it on the idea that if she had not lied to you before....you would trust her. But do people not 'overly praise' themselves when trying to find a mate? Gloss over touchy subjects?

How would you truly know?

And I am not just saying this for girls. Its for guys too. If I meet a guy who I am interested in and he tells me he has muta-ed with several women....even women who are not muslim..... how can I know for sure? How do I know he did not take the zina root? Surely a man who commits zina vs Muta are different within the view of Islam. Within their view of Character as Muslims? Then how is it not a measure of your spirituality?

Do you get what I am trying to say? I'm not sure if I am expressing myself clearly or not.... :wacko:

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It seems like my previous post did not come through. I posted this and waited for moderator approval but I guess they did not approve? lol Lets try again.

--------

and to answer your long form, it is amusing to me that you would skip over the MAIN POINT I was trying to make and instead spew a bunch of irrelevant stuff. But I shall address it anyways in a polite manner because that is what civilized and well educated people do.

Firstly, I never intended to make mutah out as a ‘one dimensional’ robot sex thing. Its sad that you interpreted thusly. I was not trying to discuss or interpret the large issue of mutah within Islam and society for that is not my place to interpret. I will leave that for the Imams and those more well versed on the matter. Therefore, yes, I do agree with your definition of Mutah and I don’t see all forms of it as bad. In fact, instead of getting enraged about my opinions, you should re-read my post more carefully. Like the parts where I said “I dont know you who posted this and I will not make the judgment that you fall into this category. Many men dont...but many men do. I think the whole 'intention' behind temporary marriages has been greatly skewed and misrepresented in today's society.” What I was clearly saying is that not everyone misuses mutah. Many use it for good reasons. I know of quite a few couples who have entered mutah with the INTENTION of getting married permanently and use mutah as a trial period. I don’t see anything wrong with this. They are adults and can do whatever they want. Like I said, the importance in all this is the INTENTION behind the decision to go through with mutah.

Of course there are many people who use mutah as it should be and what it is intended for. My post was responding to the poster who said “why are the men struggling to find woman to accept this process and why is it not looked upon in a positive way to help out each other?” and “Instead of dating and having girl friends why not explain or have a process set up for both sexes to find each other easily. Either at locations or online to keep it discreet.”

Now, correct me please if I am wrong, but this is not a man searching for a committed relationship. This comes off to me as men who want sex. I mean if it’s a relationship they want then it really shouldn’t be hard to find a girl. If it’s a relationship you want that is HALAL why do you want it to be discreet? If your end goal is to find a girl you are compatible with and wish to one day perhaps marry, then you will not start persuading her with HEY I AM ONLY IN THIS IF YOU ARE INTO MUTAH. No. First you get to know each other in the very basic way. Go forward honestly and claim your intentions of marrying her. Then, once basic compatibility is determined you can discuss mutah. Don’t go up to someone and say heyyyyyy gurrllll I want to enter a mutah contract with youuuu.

So, in conclusion, I am not saying all forms of mutah are bad or that all men want it for bad reasons. I am saying that those who want mutah simply for the sex, and you would be lying if you said there aren’t men who are seeking it for that reason, are a little delusional when they don’t realize why girls aren’t running into it.

And to your point, that all these people want is a relationship like boyfriends/girlfriends:

“If you want to understand what a muta'a relationship is usually about, look at a non-Muslim boyfriend/girlfriend type arrangement.”

So you are in essence saying you want a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship right? Well then first of all, it clearly does not fall into the category of people I am discussing (who just want a sexual relationship). Second of all, it is interesting how you want a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship (something not looked at in a positive light in Islam) and yet you are trying to go around it by using mutah. Of course there are different levels of mutah…from the ‘getting to know each other’ level to the ‘be together for 2 years level’. Very different intentions behind both of them I think.

Finally, I think it is funny that you conveniently skipped over my major point so I will readdress it. Forgetting those who are engaging in mutah in order to get to know someone better for the serious intention of marrying them (because that is not who my post is about), for those who are seeking mutah because of either the purely sexual element or the intention of being in a relationship for companionship (yet have no intention of entering a permanent marriage)….why do you not just get MARRIED? Like legit married. Its those people who ‘abuse’ the true intentions behind mutah that really piss me off and who my post was directed to.

Who are you to define what a legit use of mutah is? Islamically speaking, contracting mutah solely for sex is a legitimate use of mutah, so is doing so for simply getting to know the person, and on and on and on. So yes, the boyfreind/girlfreind dynamic can be considered totally halal if it falls under a halal mutah contract, if a muslim guy picks up a girl (approaches some sister at some event and contracts mutah with her through consent), you are islamically speaking, in no position to condemn either one.

No one here, from an islamic perspective, should in any shape or form judge two consenting individuals engaged in a halal practice, whether for sex or for companionship, whether during a 30 minute lunch break at work or for years, its none of your business, it is halal.

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Girls might consider Mutah as form of "engagement" before full marriage. However there is no such thing as engagements in Islam, and the very definition of Mutah is for "pleasure", not for "getting to know someone".

Muta is a full-fledge marriage bounded only by time and some other minor restrictions. Obviously people don't need to put a show to everyone that they are now "engaged" since engagement doesn't really exist. But ask yourself how many people would be comfortable saying that they are engaged as opposed to saying they are married temporarily? I think in general the society has come to accept engagement as a "getting to know" phase between the couples and I guess society prefers permanent marriage over temporary either because of influence from Sunnism or because of the stigma attached to the muta or just because permanent marriage is more beneficial.

Edited by Gypsy
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(salam)

Girls might consider Mutah as form of "engagement" before full marriage. However there is no such thing as engagements in Islam, and the very definition of Mutah is for "pleasure", not for "getting to know someone".

The fact that the linguistic definition for Mutah is pleasure does not automatically limit temporary marriage so it cannot be used for "getting to know someone". After all look at the linguistic definition for Nikah which is "penetration", does that mean a couple cannot get married permanently for other Islamic reasons aside from sex such as companionship, stability and procreation?

Mutah may well be permissible but only in extreme circumstances - the same way that eating pig is permissible if we are starving etc. Thankfully it is considered taboo and not practised by the majority of Twelvers. The fascinating thing is how the tiny minority of people who do practice Mutah, use it to conform to a Western lifestyle. A very strange way of using (abusing) Islam to mirror secular morality.

Firstly, the analogy is not accurate as eating pig is haraam unlike Mutah which is not haraam according to Shia Ithna Asheri beliefs.

Even if you were accurate in saying the minority of people who do Mutah are abusing Islam by mirroring secularism, that alone would not be a reason to render it impermissible. Our Ulama are not in the practice of using the actions of a small minority to render something impermissible for the majority.

Wa Salam

Edited by *Sayyeda*
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Yeah, there is no "good muta'a" or "bad muta'a." The "intention" of muta'a is for an adult man and an adult woman who agree to it to be together and enjoy each other's company, however they see fit, for a certain time and for a certain gift. Whatever other intentions or purposes that fit within this are all equally legitimate. If two people want to get to know each other with their pants firmly on as a preparation for marriage, that's legitimate. If they want to have a full privileges potential boyfriend/girlfriend type arrangement during a business trip or a semester at college or during that waiting period while they're getting established in a career to the point that their parents take them seriously for seeking nikah or while rebuilding strength following a rough divorce before attempting something permanent again or just because they mutually prefer a relationship with less long term strings attached - it's legitimate. And if two adults want to get lucky and are cool with it on those terms, that's legitimate too. Life is infinite in variety, and muta'a gives the flexible answer when permanent marriage either isn't at the moment desired or just isn't happening at the moment for whatever reason.

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Who are you to define what a legit use of mutah is? Islamically speaking, contracting mutah solely for sex is a legitimate use of mutah so is doing so for simply getting to know the person, and on and on and on.
You don't need to engage in Mutah to get to know someone.
So yes, the boyfreind/girlfreind dynamic can be considered totally halal if it falls under a halal mutah contract, if a muslim guy picks up a girl (approaches some sister at some event and contracts mutah with her through consent), you are islamically speaking, in no position to condemn either one.
In which case why do most Twelvers see the same Boyfriend/Girlfriend dynamic as being so immoral among Western society? The theory might be different, but in practice, it is the same.

Naturally if "Mutah Boyfriends/Girlfriends" become all the rage amongst Twelvers, the community will suffer the same negative consequences that we see in the West.

No one here, from an islamic perspective, should in any shape or form judge two consenting individuals engaged in a halal practice, whether for sex or for companionship, whether during a 30 minute lunch break at work or for years, its none of your business, it is halal.
Lets not use the words Islamic perspective my friend, why not be more specific and say it is Halal according to the Twelver perspective.
Muta is a full-fledge marriage bounded only by time and some other minor restrictions. Obviously people don't need to put a show to everyone that they are now "engaged" since engagement doesn't really exist. But ask yourself how many people would be comfortable saying that they are engaged as opposed to saying they are married temporarily?
Exactly. Mutah is taboo, and quite rightly so. This fact won't be changing anytime soon, if ever.
I think in general the society has come to accept engagement as a "getting to know" phase between the couples
The "getting to know" phase does not necessarily require "engagement" especially if there will be no intimate contact.
and I guess society prefers permanent marriage over temporary either because of influence from Sunnism or because of the stigma attached to the muta or just because permanent marriage is more beneficial.
You "guess" that proper marriage is preferred because of Sunni's? You're kidding me right lol!

I think you'll find it's more to do with it being faithfully encouraged by Islam, and indeed all the Abrahamic faiths, even the non-Abrahamic faiths for that matter. Permanent marriage is the heart of family life and the foundation of any community. Temporary relationships harbour the potential to do great harm.

Permenant marriage is best because of your last point. It is highly beneficial to the individual, to the couple, to their families and to society as a whole. The reason why Mutah has such a stigma is precisely because it does not have these benefits.

The fact that the linguistic definition for Mutah is pleasure does not automatically limit temporary marriage so it cannot be used for "getting to know someone". After all look at the linguistic definition for Nikah which is "penetration", does that mean a couple cannot get married permanently for other Islamic reasons aside from sex such as companionship, stability and procreation?
The practice of Mutah in ancient times was specifically for sex. Non-sexual Mutah is a fairly recent phenomenon.
Firstly, the analogy is not accurate as eating pig is haraam unlike Mutah which is not haraam according to Shia Ithna Asheri beliefs.
And only according to Ithna Asheri beliefs.
Even if you were accurate in saying the minority of people who do Mutah are abusing Islam by mirroring secularism
It can be much worse, as the many Iranian "Masjid Brothels" are testimony to.
Our Ulama are not in the practice of using the actions of a small minority to render something impermissible for the majority.
Not only does Twelverism believe it is permissible, you actually have many Hadiths that strongly encourage it. You should practice it as much and as often as possible, indeed the more you practice it, the greater the blessings you will receive.
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Exactly. Mutah is taboo, and quite rightly so. This fact won't be changing anytime soon, if ever.

The "getting to know" phase does not necessarily require "engagement" especially if there will be no intimate contact.

The practice of Mutah in ancient times was specifically for sex. Non-sexual Mutah is a fairly recent phenomenon.

Are you a Sunni? Because if you are a real Shia as per your avatar then you know Muta is not taboo at all. They used to engage in mutah even in the time of the Prophet (pbuh). Muta was always available back then. There's not even a single Ayatullahs who would say mutah is haram or forbidden.

Was muta always for pleasure?

Obviously yes.

Can people have non-sexual muta?

Of course.

What? You are going to police people and make sure they always have sex when married via muta. It's just not your business what husband and wife do in their marriage. And obviously it takes time for people to get to know each other before they are ready to take it further.

Can people get married without getting to know each other?

Of course. There's no objection at all.

You shouldn't let the term non-sexual muta bother you. Muta means you can go all the way. But if you prefer to keep it PG-13, then that's fine too.

Edited by Gypsy
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Are you a Sunni? Because if you are a real Shia as per your avatar then you know Muta is not taboo at all.
All the other Shia sects do not accept Mutah, it's purely a Twelver thing my friend.

I said it is taboo, not Haraam - even though your sect considers Mutah Halal, it is still very much looked down upon in your community and rarely practiced. Ask your mother if she had any Mutah relationships in the past and take note of her reaction.

They used to engage in mutah even in the time of the Prophet (pbuh). Muta was always available back then. There's not even a single Ayatullahs who would say mutah is haram or forbidden.
There are many valid arguments in support of Mutah and there are many valid arguments against Mutah. You are a Twelver so should follow your Ayatollahs opinion and not think for yourself on this issue.
What? You are going to police people and make sure they always have sex when married via muta. It's just not your business what husband and wife do in their marriage.
What other people do is not my concern so by all means go get some Mutah action brother! Although I would recommend you go down the "Mutah Engagement" path leading to marriage, instead of the "Mutah Girlfriend" path leading to Westernisation.
And obviously it takes time for people to get to know each other before they are ready to take it further.
Getting to know each other basically means talking to each other - do you need a temporary marriage just to speak to a girl now?
Not really.
None of the other Shia communities preach about Mutah, atleast not the Bohra's, Nizari's and Zaydi's.

Which sect were you thinking of Big Mac? The one you've recently switched to?

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Not widely practiced? Ha! Hoo, boy

Well then, you've obviously visited the many Iranian Mutah Masjids? Or perhaps you're a Convert who can't find a wife, so is continuing your Western lifestyle?

Anyway, in your highly knowledgeable opinion, what percentage of Twelvers have practiced Mutah? Take a guess and break it down in to males and females, young and old.

If, like you imaginatively say, it is widely practiced, then why does it remain so taboo, and why do most people find it so difficult to find - like you know, the brother who started this very thread?

I hope you've helped the poor guy out and hooked him up, because apparently there's massive Mutah party going on out there, Hoo Boy!

You don't get out much, do you?
Looking at your post count of over Ten Thousand - it's pretty clear which one of us doesn't get out much, don't you think stud? Edited by Naz_
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^... I've pointed this out many times and I think it's quite evident. You have a sad habit of attacking the individual who you conversing with. You're constant insults and petty remarks are getting old. Why don't you just grow the hell up and cut the garbage and insinuations? If you are a 'real Shia' as your details suggest then you would unconditionally submit to the words of the `Aimmah and accept their rulings. As Mac has pointed out, how likely is it that all these Ahadith are completely fabricated by the companions of the Imāms who just decided to start some random conspiracy against the `Aimmah who did so and dealt with the Fiqh related to Muta in such detail and depth?

Stop following what you 'feel' is wrong and you cannot accept. You don't get to choose what to follow. You are nothing more than a member of creation. Your Lord decides and then you submit to His laws. That's what Islam is: submission to the laws of God. You don't have the right to pick and chose. He chooses for you and then it's up to the everyone to follow them.

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^... I've pointed this out many times and I think it's quite evident. You have a sad habit of attacking the individual who you conversing with. You're constant insults and petty remarks are getting old. Why don't you just grow the hell up and cut the garbage and insinuations? If you are a 'real Shia' as your details suggest then you would unconditionally submit to the words of the `Aimmah and accept their rulings. As Mac has pointed out, how likely is it that all these Ahadith are completely fabricated by the companions of the Imāms who just decided to start some random conspiracy against the `Aimmah who did so and dealt with the Fiqh related to Muta in such detail and depth?

Stop following what you 'feel' is wrong and you cannot accept. You don't get to choose what to follow. You are nothing more than a member of creation. Your Lord decides and then you submit to His laws. That's what Islam is: submission to the laws of God. You don't have the right to pick and chose. He chooses for you and then it's up to the everyone to follow them.

Schoolboys who think they are an Ayatollah, even though they've only been Muslim for about 5 minutes, are really the ones that need to grow up, especially if they are disciples of someone like Big Mac. Edited by Naz_
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^.... Firstly congratulations of making an absolute douche of yourself.

Schoolboys who think they are an Ayatollah,

I've finished school and I do not recall myself claiming to be an Ayatollah. And how old are you? I find it remarckle to see a grown man acting like a child. I hope that's not the case.

even though they've only been Muslim for about 5 minutes,

Coming' up to two years champ. ;)

are really the ones that need to grow up,

That makes sense. Because I'm the one acting like a child am I? Hmm, sure.

especially if they are disciples of someone like Big Mac.

What's that supposed to mean? This is coming from the one who think he can just accept and reject whatever he feels like and cherry pick Ahadith and make baseless claims without any evidence. Get over yourself.

Anyway don't forget to contact Brother Kadhim, so he can set you up with all that imaginary Mutah action that's going on with Twelver girls.

Cool. At it once again.

Oh well, at least you didn't ask to borrow my daughter this time. I see you're Ahklaq is improving.

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Ahh I hope no one bites my head off here because I am not here to argue, but why are people attacking each other?!

Islamically, mutah is permissible. I do understand both points of view here, sometimes people cannot get married yet, or there may be circumstances in which had it not been for mutah, they would commit harram acts, so it is better to do it than do those harram acts. If mutah is not harram, then who are we to judge. It is up to the two who do mutah to decide what they want to do.

On the other side of things, I think culturally, and I emphasise the word culturally, because religiously it is permissable, it is quite frowned upon. Well from what I have seen anyway, you guys may have different experiences. I think the problem with mutah is that it can be abused, in that a woman might do mutah with a guy, and he might play her about. However, I have seen people do mutah and end up marrying each other and all has worked out well.

It really does go both ways, I don't really have a conclusion to these points lol, but thought I would put my two cents in.

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Stop following what you 'feel' is wrong and you cannot accept. You don't get to choose what to follow. You are nothing more than a member of creation. Your Lord decides and then you submit to His laws. That's what Islam is: submission to the laws of God. You don't have the right to pick and chose. He chooses for you and then it's up to the everyone to follow them.

I think this pretty much sums up the meaning of Islam. It's a shame there are so many who don't 'get it'. So much wisdom in that statement. Thank you brother for posting.

Edited by Abu Hadi
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To add to "Abu Hadi":

If you 'feel' mutah is not 'right' for you, do not do it.

I didn't want to get married until I was 40. Now I have two of them. If I married before this, I probably never been "happy" or a good spouse.

And I wasn't a skirt-chaser either.

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I think this pretty much sums up the meaning of Islam. It's a shame there are so many who don't 'get it'. So much wisdom in that statement. Thank you brother for posting.

No problem brother. I think this is a serious problem that many are facing. This part of Islam (which ironically is the very foundation of the entire religion) is not something that is explicitly taught. I certainly never came across this until only recently. Sure, I knew that we have to obey Allah, follow what He wants and keep away from what He says too but it's so much more than that. It's about using the free will we have and completely and unconditionally submit to Him. Who are we to be under the impression that 1400 years later we somehow got something right or have better ideas than what God left His Messenger (sawa) with?

I watched a video recently by Nouman Ali Khan (Ill try and fetch it for you) which was very interesting. He is arguably the most influential Islamic speaker around at the moment and his lectures are just sublime. The work he does for the youth cannot be understated and his knowledge is quite evident. Though a Sunni, he is truly a gem and we need more people like him (especially from our 'Team' who focus on the Qur'an as much as people like him). I've spoken to many people about him (both Shi'i and Sunni) and have not come across a single one who dislikes him or his lectures. Anyway, in this particular video he basically recalls an incident when he was studying and his teacher told him to summarise the Qur'an in sentence. He basically says he was not able to do it, no matter how hard he thought about it he couldn't condense the words of Allah into one sentence. He went back to his Teacher and if I am not mistaken his teacher gives him the answer and he said that the Qur'an summarised in one sentence is: 'Accept yourself as slave & Allah as your Master.'

That's it. That's the very essence of Islam and the Qur'an. To put aside all our desires and inclinations and submit wholeheartedly to Allah and His Laws and that's only done if we sincerely accept ourselves as His slave's and Him as our Master. I don't think many understand what this statement implies and if we truly did we would have a lot less of these issues people have with Islam which can at times cause some to leave altogether because they do not truly understand the essence of the Religion and only scratch the surface of these 'problems' without conducting in-depth research to clear these doubts and issues. For example, how many times have we seen in Ahadith where the Imāms ask their companions a rhetorical question wanting them to think and engage in a discussion with the Imāms yet when they can reply with what they think is right, they say: 'Allah and His Prophet/Imām know better.' Or 'You and Allah know better.'? These people have submitted to the words of Allah and the Ahlul Bayt (as). It seems at times they didn't even want to try and give a response, rather they wished for the Imām just to tell them so they would receive what is always correct because they would take on board and accept whatever response the Imam gave them. We need to get to the stage where if we find something that doesn't sit right with us we study that issue/topic in as much detail as we can and if we are unable to come to terms with it at the end of the day as the Qur'an says the Believers are those who say: 'We hear and we obey'. We don't have reason to doubt what we have because it's so beautiful and full of meaning that its so damn evident to those who want to find the truth. It's the Shaytan who causes these problems with his whispers.

I think half the battle is just accepting what God wants ahead of our own feelings and inclinations because submitting to Him is the foundation of His Message and the very definition of Islam.

That's just my take on it.

Here it is:

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Why are people still wasting their time with Perfectionist? It's clearly a waste of time, since there is no type of evidence that will convince him. The only thing worth saying at this point is:

لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ

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