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hamza1892

Sunni Asked About Latmiyat?

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salams brothers and sisters, I was wondering why do we as shiaa do latmiyat? Today a sunni brother asked me this today and i really didnt have a complete answer? He also said "why are you adding this to the religion of islam if Prophet Mohammad because there was no latimyat during the time of the prophet" So if you can please answer this very thorough that would be great and much appreciated.

thank you

Hamza

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something i found on wilayat.net (maybe not useful, maybe useful)

im off. saalamu alaykum.

LATMIYA/MARTHIYA AND WEEPING OF JINS ON THE MARTYRDOM OF HOLY IMAM asws

umm salma said that i heard jins weeping on the martyrdom of imam hussein asws

umm salma said that i heard jins reciting latmiya on martyrdom of imam hussein asws

[ al bidaya wa nihaya, ibn kather, researched by abdul mohsin turki, vol 11, page 575, first print, 1418]

[al maujam al kabeer, tabarani, vol 3, page 130, narration 2862, 2867] wasi ullah said:- it is hasan

[fadail us sahaba, ahmad bin hanbal, researched by wasi ullah, vol 2, page 776, narration 1373, first print, 1403] haithmi said: it is narrated by tabarani, and its narrators are narrators of sahih hadeeth

[majma uz zawaid, vol 9, page 321, narration 15179-15180] ibn kather says after narrating it:- this thing is sahih/correct

[ al bidaya wa nihaya, ibn kather, researched by abdul mohsin turki, vol 9, page 240, chapter narrations about killing of hussein asws, first print, 1418]

umm salma narrates that i have heard jins reciting sad poetry on his martyrdom, and they were saying:-

“o those who killed hussein with ignorance! get the news of punishment and penalty

all people of skies, prophets, are praying against you, you have been cursed by the tongue of daood, musa and the one with injeel”

[ al bidaya wa nihaya, ibn kather, researched by abdul mohsin turki, vol 11, page 575, first print, 1418]

abu khabab kalbi said that people of karbala always heard jins reciting sad poetry for imam hussein asws, and they said; “holy prophet touched his fore head with his hand; and its shine was in his cheeks, his parents were the greats of quriesh and his grand father was the best grand father”

[ al bidaya wa nihaya, ibn kather, researched by abdul mohsin turki, vol 11, page 572, chapter narrations about killing of hussein asws, first print, 1418]

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thank you for your time,

but he keeps stressing that we added this to the religion because prophet Mohammad didnt do it. how should i respond to him when he says that?? Also, did prophet Mohammad ever mention latmiyat??

Thanks

Hamza

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thank you for your time,

but he keeps stressing that we added this to the religion because prophet Mohammad didnt do it. how should i respond to him when he says that?? Also, did prophet Mohammad ever mention latmiyat??

Thanks

Hamza

(salam) brother,

Excuse the simple answer and it may not help at all but.... We're mourning the death of the grandson of the prophet.

Why do we recite mowaleed and anasheed on the birthdates of the prophets and the imams?

They are poems expressing our happiness.

latmiyat are poems expressing our sadness just like the angels did... We're not adding anything. The latmiyat are a cultural thing.

The prophet(AS) mourned the martyrdom of Imam Hussein the day he was born! How did we add that? There are different ways of mourning... Again it's a cultural thing.

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Thank you sister, that actually makes perfect sense. So why do we beat ourselves on the chest?? Especially the people in Iran that do it with chains. how would i explain that to him?

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Thank you sister, that actually makes perfect sense. So why do we beat ourselves on the chest?? Especially the people in Iran that do it with chains. how would i explain that to him?

this can help you

Aisha said: "Allah's Apostle died in my lap. I then placed his head on a pillow AND STARTED DOING ILTIDAM with the other women AND I BEAT MY FACE."

Sunni References:

Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, vol. 6, p. 274, Number 26391

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Thank you sister, that actually makes perfect sense. So why do we beat ourselves on the chest?? Especially the people in Iran that do it with chains. how would i explain that to him?

You're welcome... See thats kinda complicated. It's also cultural. I don't agree with it at all. Especially tadbeer... I know most major maraj3 said it was haram to harm yourself substantially.

Why do we beat ourselves? Go out into the middle eastern society. Show me ONE woman who has a son that died and she didn't beat her self... Just one. Doesn't matter if shes Sunni, Shia, heck she could be an atheist for all I care. When you love someone enough, you'll lose sight of reality for a bit. I don't think someone should severly beat themselves but honestly if all you do is make your skin red then I don't see why it's a problem. It's just a person expressing their sadness and it's not wajib. In fact if it puts the person in danger then it's completely haram. So that's about as much as I can say about this

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salams brothers and sisters, I was wondering why do we as shiaa do latmiyat? Today a sunni brother asked me this today and i really didnt have a complete answer? He also said "why are you adding this to the religion of islam if Prophet Mohammad because there was no latimyat during the time of the prophet" So if you can please answer this very thorough that would be great and much appreciated.

thank you

Hamza

You could ask them the same question....

for example in the time of prophet (pbuh), Taraweeh never existed but why does it exist now?

Also about latmiyat is that every generation from the time of Imam hussein (as) till the last day of earth, everybody should remember that there was only one Hussein (as) but a million Yazids (la)..

So that everyone learns through history that dying is much better than kiving under oppression.......

Edited by fahimah18

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You could ask them the same question....

for example in the time of prophet (pbuh), Taraweeh never existed but why does it exist now?

Also about latmiyat is that every generation from the time of Imam hussein (as) till the last day of earth, everybody should remember that there was only one Hussein (as) but a million Yazids (la)..

So that everyone learns through history that dying is much better than kiving under oppression.......

(salam)

I don't know what you've seen but im telling you some of them get crazy... I don't think that beating is what keeps the memory of Hussein. I think it's the story. It keeps people coming back every year. I meathee go to the mosque every year, yet we never get tired. It's just what these majalis stand for.

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Beating

Thank you sister, that actually makes perfect sense. So why do we beat ourselves on the chest?? Especially the people in Iran that do it with chains. how would i explain that to him?

Please read the history of Safavid empire, especially first Shah, Shah Ismail or Ismail I. What he added to mourning like beating with chains and other harming stuff. How he made mourning more aggressive. What good/bad things he added to it. All answers to such questions will be clear.

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this can help you

Aisha said: "Allah's Apostle died in my lap. I then placed his head on a pillow AND STARTED DOING ILTIDAM with the other women AND I BEAT MY FACE."

Sunni References:

Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, vol. 6, p. 274, Number 26391

You don't understand Ahl-Sunnah it is not like Shiasm. Mother of believers (ra) later said that what she did was wrong. Sahaba were humans and made mistakes. Secondly, if a Sahabi's action contradicts the action of the Prophet (saw) we reject it.

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You don't understand Ahl-Sunnah it is not like Shiasm. Mother of believers (ra) later said that what she did was wrong. Sahaba were humans and made mistakes. Secondly, if a Sahabi's action contradicts the action of the Prophet (saw) we reject it.

SHE DID NOT! + She didn't see anything bad with that

وقد أخرج عمر أخت أبي بكر حين ناحت وصله بن سعد في الطبقات بإسناد صحيح من طريق الزهري ، عن سعيد بن المسيب قال : لما توفي أبو بكر أقامت عائشة عليه النوح فبلغ عمر فنهاهن فأبين فقال لهشام بن الوليد : أخرج إلى بيت أبي قحافة يعني أم فروة فعلاها بالدرة ضربات فتفرق النوائح حين سمعن بذلك ، ووصله إسحاق بن راهويه في مسنده من وجه آخر ، عن الزهري وفيه فجعل يخرجهن إمرأة إمرأة وهو يضربهن بالدرة

Ibn Hajar Asqalani:

The quotation of Bukhari that says: (Umar brought out sister of Abi Bakr when she mourned) It has been narrated by Ibn Sa’d through a 'Sahih' (Authentic) chain from Al-Zuhri from Zahri from Sa‘eed Ibn Mosayyib who said: When Abu Bakr died, Aisha held a gathering in which eulogies had been read for him, Umar was informed of it, so he forbid them from doing so he ordered Hisham Ibn Al-Walid: "Bring out for me Umme Farwa!" Then he lashed her. When the news reached the mourners they escaped. And quoted Ishaq Ibn Rahwayh in his Musnad in another form from Al-Zahri and it is reported in it, "He brought out the women one by one and beated them with his whip."

______________________

Sunni - Salafi References:

Source: Fath al-Bari by Ibn Hajar Asqalani, Volume 6, page 225,

Grading of Ibn Hajar Asqalani: ( Sahih )

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You don't understand Ahl-Sunnah it is not like Shiasm. Mother of believers (ra) later said that what she did was wrong. Sahaba were humans and made mistakes. Secondly, if a Sahabi's action contradicts the action of the Prophet (saw) we reject it.

lol this guy when he sees something that proves him wrong all of a sudden "they were R.A, they didnt know better, their just human, she/he did ijtihad" but when their talking about that person "amazing, pious, never makes mistakes, mother of believers, leader of faithful" .....then why would you call someone who makes mistakes and is illogical, mother of believers? your sect has some issues and you need to stop with the ignorance and admit it....stop making excuses

why dont you reject taraweeh/hands together, praying on a unnatural item, not saying bismillah during prayers in surah fatiha, saying ameeeeeeeeen after surah fatiha, pointing fingers up and down, azan changed and removed, not following imams, not standing up for truth, rejecting evil, not enjoining good and path people, not loving the prophets family, calling a fallible book after the quran in our opinion infallible (sahih)....i can go on

Edited by pureethics

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