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Awaiting_for_the12th

Ammar Nakshwani

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I am pretty sure most of you have seen this video by now, but here it is again. This person needs to be condemned and not allowed to sit on pulpit of Prophet and Ahlulbat (as) until he appologizes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h60LF3Wp80Y&feature=player_embedded

For the Ammar defenders make sure what stance you will be defending just because of your blind love for this man. Anyways here is the other video for Ammars blind defenders on how a scholar should be:

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You are upset because he is defending speaking fees? :wacko:

Speakers don't force anyone to pay. If you deem a scholar is charging too much then don't pay. Those who want to pay higher fees is their prerogative.

Nakshawani is in high demand hence people pay more for him.

This is actually going to be a trend, better the speaker = higher the fees.

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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I believe that if you have worked to get to the position where you're at then obviously you must be payed. These lecturers have families to provide for, children to feed so when some people come up with absurd claims saying that they should give lectures for free or only accept the money as a 'gift' is a wrong mentality to hold. However that doesn't mean you should charge a huge sum of money when you know a certain community can't afford it. There's some lecturers who would refuse to go to countries which don't pay them a certain amount of money. In my opinion this is wrong as some communites don't have enough Shia speakers so it's pretty sad to deprive them of this. Would they prefer it if they went to sit at Sunni lectures?

At the end of day day when you go down this route then you shouldn't expect to get payed tons of money. Unless you have another job other than lecturing then be content with what you receive and don't spend too much. Don't buy extravagent possessions or whatnot. After all you are preaching the message of the Ahlul Bayt (as) so you should strive to live a simple life. Allah (swt) provides...

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i guess I'm missing the reasoning behind why we would condemn him for saying this?? in addition to the above about how everyone choses to pay or not to pay, ammar has a HUGE library of lectures available online which are essentially free if you wanted to listen to him for purposes of gaining knowledge. to me it just breaks down to basic economics, i don't really see how that has anything to do with blindly defending...

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Hawraa, but if a community doesn't have the money to afford a high profile speakers than they should get someone who is in their budget (there are many). If a speaker doesn't want to compromise that's his prerogative, I don't see anything 'wrong' with that.

"There are some speakers who will come forward and say 'I'm not going to charge. You give me whatever you can give me.' These speakers are the disease." - Sayed Ammar Nakshawani

You forgot the sentence afterwards. He is not against people taking less or not charging, he wants speakers to have an agreement beforehand, regardless what the amount is, if any.

* i.e. I don't believe people should be making their living like this. get a job like the rest of us and make your service in religion be for God, not a paycheck. to me the problem isn't the "stinginess" of the communities that he's complaining about here, it's this rockstar fame our communities are giving to speakers where charismatic delivery is often confused for actual knowledge.

You mean like marjas? :shaytan:

Don't see anything wrong in making a career in public speaking. You just gotta look at it as a freelance professor going from one University to another for lectures. The traveling and time researching/preparing will conflict with a real 9-5 job. Plus, you can't take days from work every time a community wants you to lecture.

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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I agree with making an agreement before hand. It is unprofessional not to set an amount before the speaking engagement. The speaker can put his price, you either accept or you don’t. You can also volunteer your time for free. But please be clear before hand. Most of the problem occurs because people are not clear or direct.

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You forgot the sentence afterwards. He is not against people taking less or not charging, he wants speakers to have an agreement beforehand, regardless what the amount is, if any.

Other speakers can make whatever arrangements they like, and it's none of his business. If they are happier just to receive whatever the gathering is willing to pay, then that is their choice. Perhaps they don't believe in receiving fees for this kind of thing, and prefer to accept gifts. Whatever the case, he was completely out of order in calling such people a disease.

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ya some of his lectures are controversial...

BUT

that doesnt mean he doesnt have knowledge to share and that i cant benefit from him. Those who dont want to listen don't listen. At the end of the day, the aam shia usually leaves his lecture enlightened with things they didnt know before as well as shed a few tears.

For all u smart alecks out there, no one told u to listen, but average ppl like me do learn new things at his lectures and and get to feel the sorrow of ahlul bait (as) .

So ya, not everything he said is correct but look at yourself in the mirror, have u said correct things every time? and when u have the mettle to go up there and give a lecture,then speak, dont sit behind ur computer and bash others.

folks, no one said his perfect, but u pull out one bad video of his, Ill pull out 20 lectures of his that will enlighten ur soul.

So plz, lets get past this point and move on.

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Salam i completely agree with Macisaac completely in that it would be better if our scholars didn't solely rely on religion to make a living. After all, some of our best intellectual and even religious works came out during the days when our scholars would have some side job (either as scribes or astronomers, etc). Even the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) would have day jobs and his example is the best example to follow. Not to mention the back-breaking work Imam Ali (as) would do Allahu akbar.

However brothers and sisters, we have to be verrrry careful in this topic and avoid backbiting. The sin of backbiting is not something to take lightly. Sometimes it's better (and maybe more constructive) to talk about concepts, instead of individuals.

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most of you have completely missed the point and thats why i thought twice to post this here:

"these speakers are the disease" you must have some hearing disorder if you missed that part. I have many maulanas in my family (who have actually spent years in Hawza Qum studying) and none of them ask for a fixed price. I posted a video of a respected Sheikh who clearly opposed the view of Ammar. So what Ammar implied is any maulana (MOST OF THEM) who dont fix the price for lecture is a disease. You guys must be crazy if you dont see anything wrong with this. When you are defending Ammar, do realize who you are opposing.

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most of you have completely missed the point and thats why i thought twice to post this here:

"these speakers are the disease" you must have some hearing disorder if you missed that part. I have many maulanas in my family (who have actually spent years in Hawza Qum studying) and none of them ask for a fixed price. I posted a video of a respected Sheikh who clearly opposed the view of Ammar. So what Ammar implied is any maulana (MOST OF THEM) who dont fix the price for lecture is a disease. You guys must be crazy if you dont see anything wrong with this. When you are defending Ammar, do realize who you are opposing.

Again, it's more beneficial to talk about concepts rather than individuals. Talking about this concept is actually constructive. Talking about an individual in this case is not that constructive. You can find many flaws with every single non-Ma'sum person.

It's more constructive to discuss concepts. Especially when focusing on individuals is a distraction and doesn't really lead to much

and Allah(swt) knows best

peace

i mean really, if you can completely remove Nakshawani, it wouldn't change too much because there's plenty other people like this. Which is why i emphasize the concepts not the individuals. was salam and best regards insha'Allah

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most of you have completely missed the point and thats why i thought twice to post this here:

"these speakers are the disease" you must have some hearing disorder if you missed that part. I have many maulanas in my family (who have actually spent years in Hawza Qum studying) and none of them ask for a fixed price. I posted a video of a respected Sheikh who clearly opposed the view of Ammar. So what Ammar implied is any maulana (MOST OF THEM) who dont fix the price for lecture is a disease. You guys must be crazy if you dont see anything wrong with this. When you are defending Ammar, do realize who you are opposing.

ahaaa!

now the motive has become clear, there is a personal twist to this thread.

Is that what u want to hear, then fine, i agree, this PARTICULAR lecture of his was not his greatest moment but now u are making a campaign agaisnt him???

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ahaaa!

now the motive has become clear, there is a personal twist to this thread.

Is that what u want to hear, then fine, i agree, this PARTICULAR lecture of his was not his greatest moment but now u are making a campaign agaisnt him???

i have no personal motive, and i get no benefit at all from starting a campaign against him. I am not getting any payment nor i seek any divine reward(?). If thats out of the way now. He can ask or fix any amount he wants to before the lecture but dont call other scholars who dont do such a thing a disease. And then saying this stuff from the pulpit of Prophet (pbuh). Some of you brought up backbiting (please read what counts as backbiting) which apparently i am doing. What is he doing from the mimbar against other scholars of islam?

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Although I don't believe someone should make their whole wage of lectures, I believe it's fine for people to charge money for lectures and have written contracts. Transportation is expensive, and lectures take a lot of time to prepare for, and hence a speaker must be compensated for that. But Islam is not a monastical religion; most people should be skilled in a trade and make their money there. I think a good example of this is Hassanain Rajabali, who I hear only charges the price of his visit, and runs a company (does not live off of his lecturing). There will always be exceptions (like the scholars), but speakers are not scholars.

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Just to add, there is a negative consequence for high profile speakers not charging or charging less, they'd see no need to travel as much, hence depriving other communities of such speakers.

Other speakers can make whatever arrangements they like, and it's none of his business. If they are happier just to receive whatever the gathering is willing to pay, then that is their choice. Perhaps they don't believe in receiving fees for this kind of thing, and prefer to accept gifts. Whatever the case, he was completely out of order in calling such people a disease.

Agreed, it was harsh. He obviously took it personally and was just advising but the choice of words were out of line.

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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Alhamdullilah, let's spend these holy nights bashing a Shia speaker who makes a lot of Muslims more religious and brings many towards Islam. Let's criticize his lifestyle even though we don't even know him personally.

Even though this was said a few years ago, let's make a thread bringing it back up so we can verbally slaughter him.

Let's speak ill of a speaker whilst I've never sat on a pulpit myself.

Let's make the world wide web know how much I disagree with this speaker, even though I could just email him personally to ask what he means and hence not have his dignity attacked.

Masha'Allah.

Who is attacking?

He said something wrong. In fact, he said something completely incoherent: that speakers who do not demand a set price are a "disease." People have the right to criticize him on that statement, or at the very least demand that he explain his reasoning!!!

Though I disagree with the fundamental premise here*, I think the part that really set off people about the above clip is more near the end, where he condemns those who don't have a set charge but will accept whatever is given to them.

* i.e. I don't believe people should be making their living like this. get a job like the rest of us and make your service in religion be for God, not a paycheck. to me the problem isn't the "stinginess" of the communities that he's complaining about here, it's this rockstar fame our communities are giving to speakers where charismatic delivery is often confused for actual knowledge.

Yeah! I am so sick and tired of those elitist, fatcat scholars eating our hard-earned money!

Like Imam Khomeini, who ate less meat in a year than I am guessing you eat in a week.

Or Allameh Tabatabaei, who worked for 10 years on a farm to make a living and who could never go on hajj.

(Yeah you're not necessarily talking about scholars, but about speakers, but I know that you also believe there should be no specialized scholarly class, so what I have said is applicable)

Anyway you gotta get over this mindless prejudice. There is something called specialization. It has existed for a long time, in every society, in varying degrees. Take, for example, a factory. Look at Henry Ford's production methods and how they changed the world: this was because he applied the principle of specialization to an extreme degree: so you had each worker doing one particular job, and this allowed car production to multiply... Now, one could argue that this was not a good thing, and this was something that allowed for machinism to take root in society and for society to be married to constant hyper-consumption, which many have argued. But aside from these symptoms (which are specific to the production realm of society; not applicable to every realm), we can agree that the very principle of specialization allows one to do his job better, whatever that job happens to be.

And another important point: you are pretending as though scholars are a dead weight and a burden on society. If someone has a Ph. D and teaches at a university, is he considered a dead weight? Or is he considered as performing an important role in society?

Now what about our scholars, who perform the same role as them, but encompassing far more? Dead weight?

Get over yourself and your nonsensical prejudices.

Edited by baradar_jackson

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In The Name Of Allah, The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful.

Sallam Alaykum wa rahmatullahi Wa Baraquatuh.

Alhamdullilah, let's spend these holy nights bashing a Shia speaker who makes a lot of Muslims more religious and brings many towards Islam. Let's criticize his lifestyle even though we don't even know him personally.

Even though this was said a few years ago, let's make a thread bringing it back up so we can verbally slaughter him.

Let's speak ill of a speaker whilst I've never sat on a pulpit myself.

Let's make the world wide web know how much I disagree with this speaker, even though I could just email him personally to ask what he means and hence not have his dignity attacked.

Couldn't have said it better myself. ^

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Some of you brought up backbiting (please read what counts as backbiting) which apparently i am doing. What is he doing from the mimbar against other scholars of islam?

LOL

56711067.jpg

Chapter 49, Verse 11:

O you who believe! let not (one) people laugh at (another) people perchance they may be better than they, nor let women (laugh) at (other) women, perchance they may be better than they; and do not find fault with your own people nor call one another by nicknames; evil is a bad name after faith, and whoever does not turn, these it is that are the unjust.

Pathetic cheap-shot.

Who is attacking?

He said something wrong. In fact, he said something completely incoherent: that speakers who do not demand a set price are a "disease." People have the right to criticize him on that statement, or at the very least demand that he explain his reasoning!!!

Did the 'Mr Armani' tag appear out of thin air?

Last time I checked it's haraam to call people offensive nicknames. This nickname is disgusting

But it just shows how people are - you love to attack a believer before defending a believer.

I have no problem in people disagreeing with the man. I myself think he worded it a bit harshly.

But what I find annoying is that this was said in 2008 - why the sudden outrage in 2011?

How do you know he hasn't changed his view?

How about emailing him personally to ask what he meant rather than making a thread on the internet that hurts his dignity?

I bet no one here has even listened to the whole lecture. The 'disease' is stinginess, not literal.

All he was saying is to make an agreement beforehand, otherwise it just becomes silly. That's the Islamic way - make a contract.

MAFHHZB gave a good example above.

Whether you agree or not making money off lecturing is right or not is another issue.

SAN is not a scholar, he is a speaker. Speaking is a profession which you have the right to get paid for.

It takes him 3 months - 1 year just to prepare one lecture.

You pay university lecturers, but when it's religion it is 'Allah will reward you', as if the speaker doesn't have a mortgage to pay, food to eat and things to buy. When they get invited to countries to give lectures, the speakers say 'kun faya koon' and a plane ticket appears in front of them.

And by the way - SAN also teaches at the Islamic College London (maybe not anymore as he's gone to Syria), so he does have a 'regular job' (whatever that terms means). So again, it's people talking without knowing anything about him.

I'll tell you the real disease - people having hard hearts, not changing themselves but attacking others. People don't know how to disagree in a nice manner. People are quick to attack but slow to defend. People look at the black spot on the piece of paper.

Masha'Allah.

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that's just silly.. all his lecs are FREE online.. and he deserved to get paid.. personally it's super annoying when people want me to teach their kids for free just coz am shia.. like HELLO.. we all have bills to pay and Sayed Ammar is no exception.. he does a lot of research,, and spends loads of time to prepare and etc.. and plus u can pay and get him and if u really want to and cant, u can play his FREE online lecs EH.. it's just pointless to attack people coz they want to charge.. I don't see anybody saying anything abt the high charges of docs?

PLUS if u really want to attack someone or criticize them.. pick one of the Zionists or Wahhabis instead of one of UR OWN weather u agree or disagree HATERS.

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Salams to all,

Since, emotionally i feel that it is not right to charge a set amount for giving a majalis, even still I need to see some solid evidence from hadith of our Imams that it is haram to charge a set fee for giving a majalis. I know there is hadith that those who do other work for the Ummah and fe sibillilah receive a salary for it, such as those who collect khums, some ulema who take salary from khums, etc, etc. At the other end, I have great respect for Sheik Hamza and I know that he is a sincere mumin and very knowledgable regarding these issues. He wouldn't say what he said unless he had solid evidence for saying so. I also have watched many of Sayyid Ammar's lectures and have benefitted from his knowledge and effective style of presentation.

I hope that our ulema will address this issue directly and give us some guidance on this, or else some brothers and sisters who have hadith directly related to this will present it. I will email Sheik Hamza and ask him about the issue and if I get a response soon, I will post.

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I think the attitudes of the two speakers are evident for all to see, no need to write a tafsir on it. Though it isn’t like Ammar Nakshwani is inventing this idea of fixing a wage before hand, here is quite well know story of Imam al-Redha (a) –(sorry no reference)

That day Sulayman bin Ja'far and Imam Reda (as) had gone out together for some work. It was sunset when Sulayman bin Ja'far wanted to return home. Imam Reda (as) said to him: "Come to my house and be with us tonight." Sulayman bin Ja'far agreed and with Imam Reda (as) he went to his house.

Imam Reda (as) saw his servants busy in gardening. By the way, he saw a stranger, who was also busy in gardening with them.

Imam Reda (as) asked: "Who is he?"

The servants replied: "We have hired him today so that he may help us."

Imam Reda (as): "It'a all right. How much wages have you fixed for him?"

Servants: "We will give him something and would make him satisfied."

The signs of displeasure and anger appeared on Imam Reda (as) face and he wanted to punish them. Sulayman bin Ja'far came forward and said:

"Why do you make yourself uncomfortable?"

Imam Reda (as) said: "I have repeatedly given orders that till the work and wages are not fixed, never get the work done by anyone. First fix the wages of the person and then get the work done. Even if you have fixed the wages, you could give something extra to him after the work is over. Certainly, when he finds that you have given him more than the fixed wages, he would be thankful to you and would like you. And the affection between you and him would increase. And even if you would give him the wages you have fixed, the person would not be unhappy with you. But if you do not fix the wages and employ someone to work, whatever you would give him after the work, he would not think that you have done a favour to him. Rather, he will think that you have given him less than his actual wages."

http://www.ezsoftech.com/stories/imamraza1.asp

I have got nothing against people charging, and if they charge a lot, it is only because certain people are willing to pay, no one forces anyone. Give the guys a break, especially the people who live their lives off the khums, they should be allowed to feel like men (for want of a better phrase) and earn their own money. It is a fact that many of these people, especially Ammar Nakshawani bring alot of people towards the ahl ul-bayt and make them want to be more religious.

I however, do not agree with charging for muharram lectures, of course, travel, accommodation and other such expenses should be taken care off, but its ridiculous that this sad time is the cash cow in a person’s year. High fees also require that the speaker ‘gives the audience what they want’ so invariably they start pulling stories out of who knows where, and completely distorting the real story, and everyone starts crying over falsehood, and to top it off, some people believe this.

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High fees also require that the speaker ‘gives the audience what they want’ so invariably they start pulling stories out of who knows where, and completely distorting the real story, and everyone starts crying over falsehood, and to top it off, some people believe this.

Just on this small point - SAN always highlights in his lectures that it is wrong to 'give people what they want'. He always says that speakers should talk about issues of today and taboo subjects that people don't want to hear about. Rightfully so, he adheres to this.

He has also given lectures about the sources of maqtal and how people distort events to make people cry whereas the tragedy itself is sad enough (I think he discusses this issue in his lecture on Ali Akbar's (as) biography).

So I wouldn't think this 'high fees = giving people what they want/making up stories' applies to him.

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I cant seem to edit the above post...

So also, from my experience, most brothers and sisters here support the policies of the IRI, in a general sense. This has nothing to do with money. The IRI has wide support because of the fact that there are many who believe that they are the most accurate reflection that exists at the present time of the values of our Prophet(p.b.u.h) and Ahl Al Bayt(a.s). The perfect reflection will only come with the advent of the govt. of our Imam Al Asr(a.f.s). So we believe we are supporting the ideas and values of our Prophet(p.b.u.h) and Imams(a.s) thru our support of IRI. Obviously you don't believe that, but to extend your ideas into baseless accusations is distasteful and against the values that we both believe in.

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I never implied that Sheikh Hamza Sodagar receives money from the IRI. However many scholars in London do receive money from the IRI and this is a fact. I personally know of a few of them who do. It's also pretty evident in their lectures as they're constantly praising the Islamic government and the leader at every moment they see fit. So to concude if these people receive money from the IRI then they wouldn't feel the need to charge more money for majalis they're invited to.

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You know this and MI6 doesn't ? Please present your evidence. Salams,

Do you honestly think that no scholars have connections with the IRI? Anyways the government does pay them money and if you find it hard to believe then so be it. What evidence can I provide...if you want names then no I won't mention them here.

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This guy gets paid 1000$ a lecture

This is logically inacceptable. Just think, None of our Imams accepted money when they spread their islamic knowledge.

He has to decrease the price. I'm sure he can still survive with 500$ a lecture. [ besides, he has another job..]

But who are you to tell him what he should charge for his lecture? :donno: He could put any price on his service. You take it or leave it.

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