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Awaiting_for_the12th

Ammar Nakshwani

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Alhamdullilah, let's spend these holy nights bashing a Shia speaker who makes a lot of Muslims more religious and brings many towards Islam. Let's criticize his lifestyle even though we don't even know him personally.

Even though this was said a few years ago, let's make a thread bringing it back up so we can verbally slaughter him.

Let's speak ill of a speaker whilst I've never sat on a pulpit myself.

Let's make the world wide web know how much I disagree with this speaker, even though I could just email him personally to ask what he means and hence not have his dignity attacked.

Masha'Allah.

Yeah, that's if he actually ANSWERS his emails, which he doesn't at all. Trust me, i've tried. The email definitely gets to him so its either.. he can't respond to it .. he doesn't know how to respond to it .. he can't be bothered .. or he never checks his email. I sent him an email around a year ago, asking him for an explanation to some nonsense he spoke on the pulpit, in regards the abul basit's son and a dream, which is totally false. I have a hunch that he didn't respond because he couldn’t; he knew that he was wrong.

Anyway back to topic.

Sayed Ammar himself is INSULTING other pious and knowledgeable scholars who spread knowledge in the sincere service of AhlulBayt (as) in this video. He claims that those who say 'give me whatever you can give me' are a 'disease' to the community/religion. He is clearly defaming other scholars through his purely materialistic perspective and subjective opinion on this issue.

According to him, does it mean that a family that is less fortunate or poor shouldn't be able to afford a religious speaker for their majlis in Muharram?

Did you hear the example he gave of Imam Hussein (a) offering pearls to a boy who learnt the basmallah? That was a gift! not a wage! lol .. So sayed ammar's position here is a fallacy! His argument is incoherent with this premise.

It’s wrong to use the money you earn from muharram lecturing or on the pulpit, to spend it on your own luxuries. Sayed Ammar used a wrong example in his lecture anyway. Imam Hussein (a) gave a gift, not a wage.

If it were legitimate to earn from the islamic lecturing with a fixed written contract, i'm pretty sure the Imams (a) would have done the same thing. But they didn't.

I mean, seriously, where is the sincerity? I'm not saying we shouldn't give money to the speakers, my point is that we do not make a business out of the religion. Especially in the sacred month of Muharram, it's not a time for speakers to start bidding on a price for their series of lectures, it's not appropriate.

Look at what has happened to the Quran, it has become commercialized through these pathetic “Quranic Competitions”.

From Imam al-Saadiq (a): ‘Whoever recites the Qur’an to extract money from the people will arrive on the day of resurrection and his face will be a skull with no flesh on it.' The same applies to majalis of AhlulBayt, it holds the same weight in importance and holiness as the Quran. So recite lectures to extract money and see what you get.

Now you can come and talk about how hard the Sayed works to research and gather information, but we’ve seen enough people, enough ulama who never took a penny for their lectures and, alhamdulilah, we have got a god who supports and rewards those who make tabligh purely for the religion of muhammad(pbuh&hf) and ahlulbayt (as).

Sayed Ammar, and other speakers like him, should have another income and not earn from their religious lectures, it should be secular, let’s not allow it to turn into a money making trend. Anyway, I’ve heard that Sayed Ammar is minted, anyway, so he’s the last person to speak about this.

If I was the one building the shrines of an Imam, I would never ask for money. If they give it as a gift, I might take it, but I would never ask for it. It’s an honour for us to work for ahlulbayt (as) , working for ahlulbayt is our payment! :).

Finally, I have to put across a profound statement that should be written on a golden banner and stapled on the minbar ;)

"Both sides have to be fair, those who invite the speakers should give enough money as a GIFT, and the speakers shouldn’t stop giving lectures because of money"

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Yeah, that's if he actually ANSWERS his emails, which he doesn't at all. Trust me, i've tried. The email definitely gets to him so its either.. he can't respond to it .. he doesn't know how to respond to it .. he can't be bothered .. or he never checks his email. I sent him an email around a year ago, asking him for an explanation to some nonsense he spoke on the pulpit, in regards the abul basit's son and a dream, which is totally false. I have a hunch that he didn't respond because he couldn’t; he knew that he was wrong.

Just recently a sister emailed him regarding one of his lectures and he replied back, although he didn't fully address the question. My point is that if you email him now regarding this issue he will probably reply back.

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LOL

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Chapter 49, Verse 11:

O you who believe! let not (one) people laugh at (another) people perchance they may be better than they, nor let women (laugh) at (other) women, perchance they may be better than they; and do not find fault with your own people nor call one another by nicknames; evil is a bad name after faith, and whoever does not turn, these it is that are the unjust.

Pathetic cheap-shot.

Did the 'Mr Armani' tag appear out of thin air?

Last time I checked it's haraam to call people offensive nicknames. This nickname is disgusting

But it just shows how people are - you love to attack a believer before defending a believer.

I have no problem in people disagreeing with the man. I myself think he worded it a bit harshly.

But what I find annoying is that this was said in 2008 - why the sudden outrage in 2011?

How do you know he hasn't changed his view?

How about emailing him personally to ask what he meant rather than making a thread on the internet that hurts his dignity?

I bet no one here has even listened to the whole lecture. The 'disease' is stinginess, not literal.

All he was saying is to make an agreement beforehand, otherwise it just becomes silly. That's the Islamic way - make a contract.

MAFHHZB gave a good example above.

Whether you agree or not making money off lecturing is right or not is another issue.

SAN is not a scholar, he is a speaker. Speaking is a profession which you have the right to get paid for.

It takes him 3 months - 1 year just to prepare one lecture.

You pay university lecturers, but when it's religion it is 'Allah will reward you', as if the speaker doesn't have a mortgage to pay, food to eat and things to buy. When they get invited to countries to give lectures, the speakers say 'kun faya koon' and a plane ticket appears in front of them.

And by the way - SAN also teaches at the Islamic College London (maybe not anymore as he's gone to Syria), so he does have a 'regular job' (whatever that terms means). So again, it's people talking without knowing anything about him.

I'll tell you the real disease - people having hard hearts, not changing themselves but attacking others. People don't know how to disagree in a nice manner. People are quick to attack but slow to defend. People look at the black spot on the piece of paper.

Masha'Allah.

calm down. Seems like you are a little too much emotionally attached to him. Anyways i thought its a known fact that the guy loves wearing Gucci watches (my bad i should have called him Mr. Gucci) and also that he charges 1000-2000 a lecture. Not to add other accommodations he "asks" for which includes car, a decent hotel to stay. These are not hidden things about him they are out open. You might like him for what ever reasons or you might have him on your speed dial but that doesnt change the fact that what he said is wrong.

Good luck defending him:

Dont miss the quote at 5:20: Shaheed Mutahhari (r.a) says: Those who demand money for delivering lectures, they are dipping their food in the blood of Sayyed ush Shuhada Imam Hussain (a.s) and eating it.

Edited by Awaiting_for_the12th

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calm down. Seems like you are a little too much emotionally attached to him. Anyways i thought its a known fact that the guy loves wearing Gucci watches (my bad i should have called him Mr. Gucci) and also that he charges 1000-2000 a lecture. Not to add other accommodations he "asks" for which includes car, a decent hotel to stay. These are not hidden things about him they are out open. You might like him for what ever reasons or you might have him on your speed dial but that doesnt change the fact that what he said is wrong.

You have every right to disagree with him and call him wrong but you do not have the right to call him such names.

I just posted a Quran verse about it but you just brush it aside, which speaks volumes.

People actually believe this?

Is there a problem with that?

Oh right, wait, he's a liar and deviant according to a lot of people here - I forgot.

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"There are some speakers who will come forward and say 'I'm not going to charge. You give me whatever you can give me.' These speakers are the disease." - Sayed Ammar Nakshawani

(salam)

From the way I understand this, he could possibly be referring to those speakers who say 'give me what you can', who than turn out to be disappointed (and perhaps have ill feelings towards the mosque) because they receive a lot less than what they expected. Nonetheless, referring them to as 'a disease' is a bit harsh, but it may have been a slip of the tongue in one of his heated majlises. However, In principle, I agree with him that having contracts are the way forward. The contracts don't mean that speakers necessarily demand excessive amounts, rather the amount could be very modest- after all every one has to make a living. And if some speakers have the means to support themselves, they could simply say that the aren't going charge for the majlises and are doing it purely for the sake of Allah, and inshallah, Allah (swt) will reward them even more. The 'give us what you can' phase can just create unnecessary tension and disappointment.

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But who are you to tell him what he should charge for his lecture? :donno: He could put any price on his service. You take it or leave it.

im not putting a price.. im just settling an example to show that it can be a bit lower..

it's not everybody that can afford paying that much ... people are suffering from malnutrition in Africa..

anyways folks..sayed ammar replied to one of my messages the other day and he was really nice.. Im gonna e-mail him again today and will link him to this topic =]

let's see what he thinks.

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i think people need to stop hanging on this man's 2 or 3 sentences as being so horrible. what about the millions of other things he has said that have enlightened our community? money is money. knowledge is priceless. our community has come together and split the sponsorships costs of ammar's lectures between 2 or 3 families so that its not too heavy for one person, and guess what? people come forward more than willingly every time! bottom line: quality comes with a price.

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i think people need to stop hanging on this man's 2 or 3 sentences as being so horrible. what about the millions of other things he has said that have enlightened our community? money is money. knowledge is priceless. our community has come together and split the sponsorships costs of ammar's lectures between 2 or 3 families so that its not too heavy for one person, and guess what? people come forward more than willingly every time! bottom line: quality comes with a price.

really this is how you view Azadari?

Shaheed Mutahaari (ra) was wrong then and Ammar is right.

Replicant i am going to keep ignoring the Quran verse since neither you or me are an expert in this field. Quoting in random Verse of Quran just because it seems to make sense to you. I can find a Quran verse from a random chapter and use that against you (what most sunnis do against shias) but that would be disrespecting the Book.

If i drive a BMW. I drive through the whole neighborhood and if people see me sitting in it, is it wrong to call me Mr. BMW? I am not even bringing up the topic of his extravagant lifestyle, the main topic was what he said. So you see why sunnis have hard time admitting Umar, Abu Bakr were wrong no matter what you present them with due to their blind love which clouds all reasonable proofs.

Stop taking it so personally. No one called him deviant or whatever your Nafs is making you think. I asked that he should be condemned and apologize. As you can see scholars will be doing that because its not just a slip of tongue most scholars will ignore and even in this small sample of SC look how many thinks that its ok to demand whatever.

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Did the 'Mr Armani' tag appear out of thin air?

Last time I checked it's haraam to call people offensive nicknames. This nickname is disgusting

But it just shows how people are - you love to attack a believer before defending a believer.

I have no problem in people disagreeing with the man. I myself think he worded it a bit harshly.

But what I find annoying is that this was said in 2008 - why the sudden outrage in 2011?

How do you know he hasn't changed his view?

How about emailing him personally to ask what he meant rather than making a thread on the internet that hurts his dignity?

I bet no one here has even listened to the whole lecture. The 'disease' is stinginess, not literal.

All he was saying is to make an agreement beforehand, otherwise it just becomes silly. That's the Islamic way - make a contract.

MAFHHZB gave a good example above.

Whether you agree or not making money off lecturing is right or not is another issue.

SAN is not a scholar, he is a speaker. Speaking is a profession which you have the right to get paid for.

It takes him 3 months - 1 year just to prepare one lecture.

You pay university lecturers, but when it's religion it is 'Allah will reward you', as if the speaker doesn't have a mortgage to pay, food to eat and things to buy. When they get invited to countries to give lectures, the speakers say 'kun faya koon' and a plane ticket appears in front of them.

And by the way - SAN also teaches at the Islamic College London (maybe not anymore as he's gone to Syria), so he does have a 'regular job' (whatever that terms means). So again, it's people talking without knowing anything about him.

I'll tell you the real disease - people having hard hearts, not changing themselves but attacking others. People don't know how to disagree in a nice manner. People are quick to attack but slow to defend. People look at the black spot on the piece of paper.

Masha'Allah.

Brother you're arguing against a point, that I didn't make.

This is not a question of "is it right for a speaker to take money?"

Speaking takes time and effort; preparing lectures takes time and effort. And it takes skill. It is a service. Thus, I don't think anyone will argue that it is wrong to accept payment for this service.

The problem is what Sayyed Ammar said about speakers who do not charge a set price. Yeah I'm not retarded; I know that by "disease," he means stinginess. The question is, how can he suggest that it is "stingy" for a speaker to say "pay however much you can" and not name a set price???

I would like you to defend this position, instead of inventing fantasy arguments to argue against. Nobody is saying speakers should not be paid.

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Replicant i am going to keep ignoring the Quran verse since neither you or me are an expert in this field. Quoting in random Verse of Quran just because it seems to make sense to you. I can find a Quran verse from a random chapter and use that against you (what most sunnis do against shias) but that would be disrespecting the Book.

If i drive a BMW. I drive through the whole neighborhood and if people see me sitting in it, is it wrong to call me Mr. BMW? I am not even bringing up the topic of his extravagant lifestyle, the main topic was what he said. So you see why sunnis have hard time admitting Umar, Abu Bakr were wrong no matter what you present them with due to their blind love which clouds all reasonable proofs.

Stop taking it so personally. No one called him deviant or whatever your Nafs is making you think. I asked that he should be condemned and apologize. As you can see scholars will be doing that because its not just a slip of tongue most scholars will ignore and even in this small sample of SC look how many thinks that its ok to demand whatever.

You don't need to be an expert in Quran to follow the Quran. The verse I posted is clear. Chapter 49 of the Quran is one of the clearest in the book.

Quran is a self-explanatory book and the hadiths are clear about calling people offensive nicknames as well (please don't try and sugarcoat and defend this - the 'Mr Armani' remark was used as a jibe from you, at least have the balls to admit you are having a go at his lifestyle because you think he gets paid too much. It's so blatant that your 'defence' of it is not helping you).

I don't have blind love for him - yes his lectures have changed my life (and of others) but I said in one of my posts above that he might have been harsh here and I also said that everyone has the right to disagree with him. It's just how you disagree with that I have a problem with. Disagree with him in an academic manner rather calling for him to be banned from lecturing and dismiss the excellent work he has done for Muslims. He is your brother in wilayat at the end of the day.

And I'm also baffled at why something he said 3 years ago is causing an uproar now at the end of 2011.

Anyhow - I've said what I wanted and I've done my duty in defending a fellow believer's dignity.

If you disagree with him, that's your right and I respect that.

I don't want to carry this debate on because it will not get anywhere.

Brother you're arguing against a point, that I didn't make.

This is not a question of "is it right for a speaker to take money?"

Speaking takes time and effort; preparing lectures takes time and effort. And it takes skill. It is a service. Thus, I don't think anyone will argue that it is wrong to accept payment for this service.

The problem is what Sayyed Ammar said about speakers who do not charge a set price. Yeah I'm not retarded; I know that by "disease," he means stinginess. The question is, how can he suggest that it is "stingy" for a speaker to say "pay however much you can" and not name a set price???

I would like you to defend this position, instead of inventing fantasy arguments to argue against. Nobody is saying speakers should not be paid.

My reply wasn't solely to you, so please don't make me look like a hallucinatory twonk who makes up imaginary things.

I posted my response to you but the edit function is not working for me so I couldn't go back and multiquote everyone I was responding to.

So I just made a general post addressing everything that's been said in the thread.

I'm sure you are smart enough to pick up the parts in my post that were directed to you.

To the point - I said in my post that he may have been harsh in his wording, please read that part.

The 'pay what you can' thing is having a go at people who don't make agreements beforehand and then when they are paid, they say in their head, 'damn, I wish you'd have given me more'. Make a contract/agreement, then there's no disappointments. Simple.

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People actually believe this?

I wouldn't be surprised if it is true. Remember he is a young person who works and studies too (just finished his PhD). Because of his young age he has probably needed time to do research because he didn't go to hawzah. He also gives many lectures on various new subjects, so the 3 months may not just be research for one subject alone, it could be many subjects at the same time.

Whatever you think about him, his lectures are full of information and very well structured. That sort of structure cannot be delivered without lots and lots of hard work. Most other speakers don't deliver like he does. Just considered how much he has memorised, and he doesn't even come from an Islamic studies background.

Another factor to consider is the possibility that he doesn't use all the material that he does research on. I have a friend who does a lot of research for one talk (about a month) and then he doesn't end up using most of the material. He is a bit of a perfectionist.

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You don't need to be an expert in Quran to follow the Quran. The verse I posted is clear. Chapter 49 of the Quran is one of the clearest in the book.

how clear is it please tell me? We have Hadiths saying that every verse of Quran has 70 meanings. So the verse you quoted you must know all about that verse? What condition it was mentioned, are there any restrictions or exemptions to it, does it apply to everyone or just Momineen etc you must have done your hw before quoting it knowing all Apparent and Hidden meanings of it?

The 'pay what you can' thing is having a go at people who don't make agreements beforehand and then when they are paid, they say in their head, 'damn, I wish you'd have given me more'.

I am not even sure how you can think of such a thing or yet how you got in their head and learn what they were thinking. Just to defend Ammar, you are making up stuff about other scholars. Can you please show me an instance where the scholars thought the way you described it. I cant even picture Ammar thinking something like that which is completely ruining what the message of Azadari is.

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how clear is it please tell me? We have Hadiths saying that every verse of Quran has 70 meanings. So the verse you quoted you must know all about that verse? What condition it was mentioned, are there any restrictions or exemptions to it, does it apply to everyone or just Momineen etc you must have done your hw before quoting it knowing all Apparent and Hidden meanings of it?

You are complicating a simple Quranic verse. What is so hard about "Oh ye who believe....do not find fault with your own people nor call one another by nicknames.."? I mean, how is that unclear? It might have 70 other meanings, but the face value of it is clear.

It starts with "oh ye who believe", so it applies to momineens, ie. Shias, which Sayed Ammar is.

Then it says not to call momineen (offensive) nicknames (which you have) and find faults within them.

You can use your argument with every Quran verse. Let's just leave the Quran and never read it because we'll never get it.

"Say God is one, God is He wh"- actually nah, too complicated for me. Can't ever use that in my life.

I am not even sure how you can think of such a thing or yet how you got in their head and learn what they were thinking. Just to defend Ammar, you are making up stuff about other scholars. Can you please show me an instance where the scholars thought the way you described it. I cant even picture Ammar thinking something like that which is completely ruining what the message of Azadari is.

I know of many instances (in my community anyway) where molanas are given money for their services but then afterwards say things like 'don't you think I deserve more?' or 'is that it?'

They say it in jest to not make it sound rude but this forces people into a guilty conscience and hence they hand over more money.

Other times they simply have a row over it and never return to the mosque again.

This can be avoided by having a pre-agreement.

Edited by Replicant

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I wouldn't be surprised if it is true. Remember he is a young person who works and studies too (just finished his PhD). Because of his young age he has probably needed time to do research because he didn't go to hawzah. He also gives many lectures on various new subjects, so the 3 months may not just be research for one subject alone, it could be many subjects at the same time.

Whatever you think about him, his lectures are full of information and very well structured. That sort of structure cannot be delivered without lots and lots of hard work. Most other speakers don't deliver like he does. Just considered how much he has memorised, and he doesn't even come from an Islamic studies background.

Another factor to consider is the possibility that he doesn't use all the material that he does research on. I have a friend who does a lot of research for one talk (about a month) and then he doesn't end up using most of the material. He is a bit of a perfectionist.

This year he will have given 37 lectures during the seasons of Ramadan, Muharram, Arbaeen, and Fatemyah (as he has for the past several years). Please tell me mathematically how he can be spening 3 months to a year on a single lecture, unless we are taking a very strange view of what that means. I'm not saying he doesn't research, but why the obvious exaggeration? If he said some lectures take him that long to research, I could perhaps believe it, but every one? Come on.

It is also very easy to point to lectures which simply couldn't have taken that much time to research. For example the one on Aisha's age where he simply rehashes well-known arguments that anyone can find within a few minutes on the internet, and that many people have used before. The fact that he didn't go as far as looking at the counter arguments which either refuted what he was saying or require a response of some kind, indicates a lack of thoroughness in his research.

As for the strcture, it's certainly there, but I'm sure that anyone that listens to enough of his lectures will notice that the structure is almost always the same. He often uses the same type of introduction (words to the effect of "The subject under discussion is an important one in islamic thought", etc), and the structure is a series of points (point number one, point number two, etc). That's fine, but then it obviously means that the lack of variation cuts down on the amount of work he needs to do.

Contrary to what some people seem to think, or the impression that I may often give, I don't dislike Nakshawani or anything, and I do acknowledge that he plays an important role in the religious education of many, particularly the youth. However, I think the uncritical adulation he so often gets might be getting to his head a little, and that is coming out to a certain degree in his lectures. For example, those that are willing to read between the lines will often see how he uses lectures to boost himself or to attack others. The video under discussion being one such example, but there are many more. Even the introductory video on his home page hardly paints a picture of modesty (http://www.sayedammar.com/).

I think the best things his fans could do for him is to provide a bit more constructive criticism, to hold him to slightly higher standards, and not take everything anyone ever says about him so personally. I'm sure everyone acknowledges that he has a certain skill in public speaking, but since he has such a prominent role and is in a position to influence so many, it's important he is held to account when he says something wrong.

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Replicant, if this is true then such molanas really are a disease. They're rogues. If they understood Ahlul Bayt and the philosophy of the message they were preaching on the pulpit, they would never ever behave in such an insolent and degrading manner. It's stupidity and totally antithetical to the morales of the Infallibles. Hell, even atheists don't behave like that!

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If someone pays their khums and zakat and earns their money in a halal way and fulfills their resposibilites toward their family then they should not be criticized for spending money on cloths. That is childish. I personally would not choose to spend a few hundred on a shirt but I have no right to criticize unless its haram money.

Also I don't think anyone is faulting Sayyed Ammar for making a written contract. The Quran is very clear that it is better to write down agreements. The longest ayat in the Quran is about writing contracts. The criticism is regarding the amount of the fees

The exclusion of masajids from consideration based on fees and in general the charging of fees for Muharram majalis. If Sayyid Ammar himself could respond to those points specifically I think we would all like to hear it and would appreciate his feedback if he has the time. Also to explain furthur his assertion regarding other scholars who take gifts for the majalis and don't charge a set fee. I Think this is the statement that the majority have the greatest problem with.

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You are complicating a simple Quranic verse. What is so hard about "Oh ye who believe....do not find fault with your own people nor call one another by nicknames.."? I mean, how is that unclear? It might have 70 other meanings, but the face value of it is clear.

It starts with "oh ye who believe", so it applies to momineens, ie. Shias, which Sayed Ammar is.

Then it says not to call momineen (offensive) nicknames (which you have) and find faults within them.

You can use your argument with every Quran verse. Let's just leave the Quran and never read it because we'll never get it.

"Say God is one, God is He wh"- actually nah, too complicated for me. Can't ever use that in my life.

I know of many instances (in my community anyway) where molanas are given money for their services but then afterwards say things like 'don't you think I deserve more?' or 'is that it?'

They say it in jest to not make it sound rude but this forces people into a guilty conscience and hence they hand over more money.

Other times they simply have a row over it and never return to the mosque again.

This can be avoided by having a pre-agreement.

if possible can you provide me with the names of these moulanas so i can email/contact them and remove my doubt? The way you are presenting it seems like you know these moulanas personally so it wouldnt be that hard to give me email/no.?

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The 'pay what you can' thing is having a go at people who don't make agreements beforehand and then when they are paid, they say in their head, 'damn, I wish you'd have given me more'. Make a contract/agreement, then there's no disappointments. Simple.

But what if -- and hear me out on this -- but what if, some speakers actually do not have a set amount in their head? What if they say "give as much as you can" out of humility and ikhlas?

Sayyed Ammar is being the niyyah police.

So as much as you can call out people for attacking him, you have to admit that he put his neck out with this statement. He should have chosen his words more carefully.

Otherwise, he made a good point about movie tickets and hollow entertainment, etc...

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But what if -- and hear me out on this -- but what if, some speakers actually do not have a set amount in their head? What if they say "give as much as you can" out of humility and ikhlas?

Give as much as you wish/like/can can also be misunderstood. If people expect a payment then there should be an agreement before hand that such amount will be paid/gifted for a service. Just giving a hint that you expect something in return but not being clear as to what that something is can be misunderstood by both the parties. However, if you decided to speak for free and then the center gifted you with something then that is a different case altogether.

I know why Sayyed Ammar is being criticized. He is a speaker who charges a set amount while the other doesn't. He is probably not the best person to speak about this since people will always think he has a hidden agenda or something even if he doesn't.

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I know of many instances (in my community anyway) where molanas are given money for their services but then afterwards say things like 'don't you think I deserve more?' or 'is that it?'

They say it in jest to not make it sound rude but this forces people into a guilty conscience and hence they hand over more money.

Other times they simply have a row over it and never return to the mosque again.

This can be avoided by having a pre-agreement.

All this can be avoided if you just had a simple agreement stating how much the speaker will be paid. I know people don't like to discuss money in the same context with Imam Hussayn(as). But if someone is gaining a wage from Imam Hussayn's majlis, then it is best to make an agreement. This is a potential source of revenue for the speaker. Unless the services are provided free of charge. Then you can give any amount you wish. But not everyone is going to be happy because sometimes people expect more than you are giving.

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if possible can you provide me with the names of these moulanas so i can email/contact them and remove my doubt? The way you are presenting it seems like you know these moulanas personally so it wouldnt be that hard to give me email/no.?

I do not know any molanas like that personally. My dad does and he has told me about this as he has seen things like this with his own eyes, and I of course trust him.

However, my dad doesn't tell me the name of any molanas who sometimes faulter in their ways due to gheeba.

If you still have doubts, that is fine. All I'm trying to do here is raise awareness that there are people like this in the world.

But what if -- and hear me out on this -- but what if, some speakers actually do not have a set amount in their head? What if they say "give as much as you can" out of humility and ikhlas?

Sayyed Ammar is being the niyyah police.

So as much as you can call out people for attacking him, you have to admit that he put his neck out with this statement. He should have chosen his words more carefully.

Otherwise, he made a good point about movie tickets and hollow entertainment, etc...

I repeat for the millionth time - HIS WORDS HERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN HARSH.

I have admitted it in just about all my posts!

I say again, everyone has the right to disagree with him, I just have problems with the way people are saying it and the way that this is being brought up in 2011 when this statement was said in 2008 or something.

I'm out.

Edited by Replicant

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U know that, I know that, n ppl who invite them know it. What they say n how they say, research n put it together creates n makes their lectures VALUE. They are indeed underpaid compare to many many athletes, actors, and others.

This is what you think of someone who sits on mimbar? When they acquire knowledge it becomes a duty on them to spread that out. If they dont do it then they are sinning as that knowledge they have acquired will only give them harm in the afterlife.

Comparing a life of an alim who sincerely serves the Imam (as) to athlete and actors? I mean you really are confused about shia islam and might have to check up on your basics.

I should have become a lecturer too, that way the Imam will be happy and i will be making money too for spreading his message. Then i can demand as much money as i can because my lectures will have value. Sickening

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With all due respect Awaiting, I think your conclusions as to what people believe is azadari and/or what is shia islam based off of the comments on this thread are 1) baseless and 2) out of line. Don't attack people's faith because they disagree with you on material issues. Self righteous comments don't make your arguments any stronger, so please refrain from saying things like "is that what you think of azadari?" and "you are really confused about shia islam." No one is in any position to judge what is in others' hearts or what they believe. Thank you.

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With all due respect Awaiting, I think your conclusions as to what people believe is azadari and/or what is shia islam based off of the comments on this thread are 1) baseless and 2) out of line. Don't attack people's faith because they disagree with you on material issues. Self righteous comments don't make your arguments any stronger, so please refrain from saying things like "is that what you think of azadari?" and "you are really confused about shia islam." No one is in any position to judge what is in others' hearts or what they believe. Thank you.

Yeah? And what are you doing?

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I am letting someone know they don't have the right to question my faith. What are you trying to do? Like I said before, everyone should be respectful of others. Simple as that.

Well, I mean, you may not realize it but you're also judging. You said his argument was baseless and out of line. You're judging what he believes and attacking him without providing any rational explanation as to why you think his argument is "baseless" or even "out of line" which is absurd,

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I am letting someone know they don't have the right to question my faith. What are you trying to do? Like I said before, everyone should be respectful of others. Simple as that.

lets try this again: An alim who preaches the message of Ahlulbayt (as) and an athlete or actor who makes millions, are they same? Should the two be compared? I am more then happy to reach a moulana and ask them that if i compare a scholar of islam to kafirs (regarding the pay) and i feel what i said is right, should i be concern about my faith?

The two are not the same and should never be compared. This is basic stuff for real.

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Well, I mean, you may not realize it but you're also judging. You said his argument was baseless and out of line. You're judging what he believes and attacking him without providing any rational explanation as to why you think his argument is "baseless" or even "out of line" which is absurd,

Okay. 1) Baseless - the payment of a speaker and whether your believe they should or should not be allowed a certain wage/contracted payment has no connection with how someone feels about azadari. What does the love for Imam Hussain (as) have to do with how much Ammar Nakshawani or anyone else gets paid? If you want to talk about what's absurd, let's start there. 2) Out of line - now that I'm reiterating it for the third time...its out of line to say someone doesn't understand the basics of shia islam for stating their opinion. Who gives anyone that right to judge others beliefs?

I never attacked his beliefs, I don't know where you got that from. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

lets try this again: An alim who preaches the message of Ahlulbayt (as) and an athlete or actor who makes millions, are they same? Should the two be compared? I am more then happy to reach a moulana and ask them that if i compare a scholar of islam to kafirs (regarding the pay) and i feel what i said is right, should i be concern about my faith?

The two are not the same and should never be compared. This is basic stuff for real.

I think it was more for perspective purposes than direct comparisons. The idea that we spend our wealth on non-religious things or that people doing other works are more or less deserving of high payments...at least that's how I read it, but I don't know exactly what the author meant. I guess my issue was more with the personal attacking. Especially with Ashura around the corner, let's not split hairs over trivial issues. We are all coming together to mourn Imam Hussain (as) and his sacrifices, let's not lose sight of that.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

He is definately an AMAZING speaker, in the sense that he is very knowledgeably and that probably becomes apparent in the first lecture of his you listen/watch to, If Allah (SWT) Has bless you with those senses. Also the way he comes across and speaks to his audience is very diffrent from other speakers, even other good speakers. On this topic though, i do see that there be some issues concerning this 'problem' or worry and I am 50/50.

In the sense that yes, i agree there should be charge for knowledge as it is worth more than money. But then again on the other hand, he is a good speaker and usually the better the speaker higher the charge. i guess we will see.

Also, one more thing i wish to add is that Wasn't this said 2 years ago??

All Thanks and Praise Be To Allah (SWT)

ALLAHU AKBAR!! (Allah IS THE GREATEST!)

(wasalam)

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With all due respect Awaiting, I think your conclusions as to what people believe is azadari and/or what is shia islam based off of the comments on this thread are 1) baseless and 2) out of line. Don't attack people's faith because they disagree with you on material issues. Self righteous comments don't make your arguments any stronger, so please refrain from saying things like "is that what you think of azadari?" and "you are really confused about shia islam." No one is in any position to judge what is in others' hearts or what they believe. Thank you.

the first line itself is judging. Anyways i will not discuss this any further as this post has not serve its purpose, those who love him see nothing wrong with what he said, and tried to justify it with what they believe is right in comparison to other great scholars.

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Okay. 1) Baseless - the payment of a speaker and whether your believe they should or should not be allowed a certain wage/contracted payment has no connection with how someone feels about azadari. What does the love for Imam Hussain (as) have to do with how much Ammar Nakshawani or anyone else gets paid? If you want to talk about what's absurd, let's start there.

1. You're totally missing the point. You're not looking at the full picture. Maybe you missed my previous post:

Sayed Ammar himself is INSULTING other pious and knowledgeable scholars who spread knowledge in the sincere service of AhlulBayt (as) in this video. He claims that those who say 'give me whatever you can give me' are a 'disease' to the community/religion. He is clearly defaming other scholars through his purely materialistic perspective and subjective opinion on this issue.

According to him, does it mean that a family that is less fortunate or poor shouldn't be able to afford a religious speaker for their majlis in Muharram?

Did you hear the example he gave of Imam Hussein (a) offering pearls to a boy who learnt the basmallah? That was a gift! not a wage! lol .. So sayed ammar's position here is a fallacy! His argument is incoherent with this premise.

It’s wrong to use the money you earn from muharram lecturing or on the pulpit, to spend it on your own luxuries. Sayed Ammar used a wrong example in his lecture anyway. Imam Hussein (a) gave a gift, not a wage.

If it were legitimate to earn from the islamic lecturing with a fixed written contract, i'm pretty sure the Imams (a) would have done the same thing. But they didn't.

I mean, seriously, where is the sincerity? I'm not saying we shouldn't give money to the speakers, my point is that we do not make a business out of the religion. Especially in the sacred month of Muharram, it's not a time for speakers to start bidding on a price for their series of lectures, it's not appropriate.

Look at what has happened to the Quran, it has become commercialized through these pathetic “Quranic Competitions”.

From Imam al-Saadiq (a): ‘Whoever recites the Qur’an to extract money from the people will arrive on the day of resurrection and his face will be a skull with no flesh on it.' The same applies to majalis of AhlulBayt, it holds the same weight in importance and holiness as the Quran. So recite lectures to extract money and see what you get.

Now you can come and talk about how hard the Sayed works to research and gather information, but we’ve seen enough people, enough ulama who never took a penny for their lectures and, alhamdulilah, we have got a god who supports and rewards those who make tabligh purely for the religion of muhammad(pbuh&hf) and ahlulbayt (as).

Sayed Ammar, and other speakers like him, should have another income and not earn from their religious lectures, it should be secular, let’s not allow it to turn into a money making trend. Anyway, I’ve heard that Sayed Ammar is minted, anyway, so he’s the last person to speak about this.

If I was the one building the shrines of an Imam, I would never ask for money. If they give it as a gift, I might take it, but I would never ask for it. It’s an honour for us to work for ahlulbayt (as) , working for ahlulbayt is our payment!

Finally, I have to put across a profound statement that should be written on a golden banner and stapled on the minbar ;)

"Both sides have to be fair, those who invite the speakers should give enough money as a GIFT, and the speakers shouldn’t stop giving lectures because of money"

2) Out of line - now that I'm reiterating it for the third time...its out of line to say someone doesn't understand the basics of shia islam for stating their opinion. Who gives anyone that right to judge others beliefs?

I never attacked his beliefs, I don't know where you got that from. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Where did he say that Sayed doesn't understand the basics of shia islam, can you show me? The fact is, you were judging his opinion and attacked him without backing your argument with substantial evidence for your stance.

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Where did he say that Sayed doesn't understand the basics of shia islam, can you show me? The fact is, you were judging his opinion and attacked him without backing your argument with substantial evidence for your stance.

He said another poster didn't understand the basics of Islam, you can see that clearly if you read his previous responses.This is going to be my last post on this topic, because I don't think much good is coming out of it. We should all be focused on the coming days and our pursa for Bibi Fatima.

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calm down. Seems like you are a little too much emotionally attached to him. Anyways i thought its a known fact that the guy loves wearing Gucci watches (my bad i should have called him Mr. Gucci) and also that he charges 1000-2000 a lecture. Not to add other accommodations he "asks" for which includes car, a decent hotel to stay. These are not hidden things about him they are out open.

It just baffles my mind that you are dictating how one should use their 'own' money. It's none of anyone's business. No offense but you sound like a typical 'hater'.

I have a young cousin like that. Whenever I see him at a gathering, he'd say "Jeeez, why are you trying so hard to impress people." ^_^

Dont miss the quote at 5:20: Shaheed Mutahhari (r.a) says: Those who demand money for delivering lectures, they are dipping their food in the blood of Sayyed ush Shuhada Imam Hussain (a.s) and eating it.

So all the speakers around the world from young to old that charged money are using the blood of Hussain as sauce and you are complaining about Nakshawani's harsh language (i.e. 'disease'). :wacko:

Hypocritical.

Edited by Ugly Jinn

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