Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
shoelace

First Bohra Forum

Recommended Posts

(bismillah)

bohras are known for secrecy and they rarely discuss religion matters with out sider,yesterday I was on google and found this first online bohra forum.

http://dawoodi-bohras.lefora.com/

its really a good step to move towards democracy.

:yaali:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i don't see anything interesting on that forum.

If you are interested to check out about their secretive practices and major complaints against the bohra priesthood and his royal family, see this forum

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/

yes i do visit this forum,but it is really disgusting to see how this progressive (kicked out meembers of bohra community) mock ahlul bayt and make fun of matam.so in that case i dont think they are reliable to trust.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But don't you think they have a right to complain about the wrong-doings in their own community. They, being ex-members of that community, should probably have more insight into the Bohra sect and the society in general. You can find some personal testimonials about their reforms here http://dawoodi-bohras.com/reform_issues/articles/ Frankly, some of the stories are shocking, and you have to wonder what is going on in the community.

I can't comment about any particular individual because I don't really know anyone on that forum. The few times I have have visited, I get the impression that there is a whole lot of issues that need to be addressed and settled before you can preach someone about Ahlul Bayt or matam.

You can't simply tell someone to revere and follow Ahlul Bayt, when at the core of the Bohra sect is a corrupt priesthood and his family. Once you have a family that runs the religion like an enterprise, then the people have a right to condemn and speak about them. The Bohra priest or his family do not have any authority from God. They don't even have any authority from the political dynasty that defuncted close to a thousand years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can find disgruntled ex-members of anything who will back bite and cry the blues, some are justified and some are not. Should ex-Muslims, if not dead, ex-Christians, ex-Jews etc etc be accepted as unbiased spokespersons I do not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can find disgruntled ex-members of anything who will back bite and cry the blues, some are justified and some are not. Should ex-Muslims, if not dead, ex-Christians, ex-Jews etc etc be accepted as unbiased spokespersons I do not.

Sometimes yes, but most of the time no.

The issue here is more complicated that just being an ex of something. They haven't left Islam. They are not non Muslim. They still adhere to the same teaching (The Tayyibi Bohras) minus the religious/clerical authority. And this is the main reason why it is more interesting to study them rather than someone who has merely left the sect like the owner of http://mostmerciful.com/ or an ex-Muslim.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes yes, but most of the time no.

The issue here is more complicated that just being an ex of something. They haven't left Islam. They are not non Muslim. They still adhere to the same teaching (The Tayyibi Bohras) minus the religious/clerical authority. And this is the main reason why it is more interesting to study them rather than someone who has merely left the sect like the owner of http://mostmerciful.com/ or an ex-Muslim.

What was your previous name?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zareen.

What happened to your admin post?

Anyway, Dawoodi Bohras are unfortunately some of the most clueless "unaware" persons arround.

I once asked one about something regarding the nass of Ismail bin Jafar and he reffered me back to his deobandi work colleague.

Their priesthood keeps those poor guys (but its their own fault) completely unaware of anything going beyond immitation and blind following and makes them good cultural "bohras".

All of this is totaly against the Fatimid traditions of learning. Yes, there was secrecy in the dawah but these guys keeping the basics of islam hidden from their sheep.

Another problems is, the dai in the dawoodies case Burhauddin is somehow chosen by the Imam (as far as I understand it). Now if the progressive Dawoodie Bohras decide to rebel against Burhauddin they have basically left their sect and become Bohras without leadership, although they still seem to follow the cultural traditions of being a Bohra.

This wholes thing is quite messed up. Burhauddin seems to be quite pally with the Saudis as well. He pumped them some cash for drilling wholes into the Kaaba and making it "modern".

The Dawoodies take this together with his spending on the shrine in Kufa as a sign from Allah that he is rightly guided.

Their Dawah, (which does not do any dawah at all only charges "membership fees") keeps them uninformed instead of doing their job, this keeps them at a level of ignorance which is easy to controlle.

I am much more intrigued about the najrani Sulaymani Borah, they don't seem to have much of a web presence.

Their leader is slagged off in Saudi (arabic) web forums as buying loads of properties in his and his sons name from the donations of his followers.

I think the dodgy link is right from the beginning when the Yemeni queen claims she has got the infant Imam in her custody and made herself the Dai al Mutlaq.

I just can't trust their claims. On of their Yemeni Dais (Idris) basically changed their whole religion in his works, he must have been ignorant of older fatimid texts.

Another thing very intriguing is there are some sources which list still a presence of Ismailis in southern Egypt, I wonder if they believe in the imamat of Al Hafiz.

Something else if found interesting recently is Tusi and his Nizari (Assassin) works from Alamut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they might use astronomical data to determin the birth of the new moon and start the new month before the moon is even visible.

I think they usually do it even one day earlier than the Saudis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What happened to your admin post?

Anyway, Dawoodi Bohras are unfortunately some of the most clueless "unaware" persons arround.

I once asked one about something regarding the nass of Ismail bin Jafar and he reffered me back to his deobandi work colleague.

Their priesthood keeps those poor guys (but its their own fault) completely unaware of anything going beyond immitation and blind following and makes them good cultural "bohras".

All of this is totaly against the Fatimid traditions of learning. Yes, there was secrecy in the dawah but these guys keeping the basics of islam hidden from their sheep.

Another problems is, the dai in the dawoodies case Burhauddin is somehow chosen by the Imam (as far as I understand it). Now if the progressive Dawoodie Bohras decide to rebel against Burhauddin they have basically left their sect and become Bohras without leadership, although they still seem to follow the cultural traditions of being a Bohra.

This wholes thing is quite messed up. Burhauddin seems to be quite pally with the Saudis as well. He pumped them some cash for drilling wholes into the Kaaba and making it "modern".

The Dawoodies take this together with his spending on the shrine in Kufa as a sign from Allah that he is rightly guided.

Their Dawah, (which does not do any dawah at all only charges "membership fees") keeps them uninformed instead of doing their job, this keeps them at a level of ignorance which is easy to controlle.

I am much more intrigued about the najrani Sulaymani Borah, they don't seem to have much of a web presence.

Their leader is slagged off in Saudi (arabic) web forums as buying loads of properties in his and his sons name from the donations of his followers.

I think the dodgy link is right from the beginning when the Yemeni queen claims she has got the infant Imam in her custody and made herself the Dai al Mutlaq.

I just can't trust their claims. On of their Yemeni Dais (Idris) basically changed their whole religion in his works, he must have been ignorant of older fatimid texts.

Another thing very intriguing is there are some sources which list still a presence of Ismailis in southern Egypt, I wonder if they believe in the imamat of Al Hafiz.

Something else if found interesting recently is Tusi and his Nizari (Assassin) works from Alamut.

. i think you need to first research about the correct truth about dawoodi bohras, their beleif, their tradition, their love for their dai, i hope you are atleast that much tech savvy that you can find and filter about the truth and correct information available on web

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What happened to your admin post?

Anyway, Dawoodi Bohras are unfortunately some of the most clueless "unaware" persons arround.

I once asked one about something regarding the nass of Ismail bin Jafar and he reffered me back to his deobandi work colleague.

Their priesthood keeps those poor guys (but its their own fault) completely unaware of anything going beyond immitation and blind following and makes them good cultural "bohras".

All of this is totaly against the Fatimid traditions of learning. Yes, there was secrecy in the dawah but these guys keeping the basics of islam hidden from their sheep.

Another problems is, the dai in the dawoodies case Burhauddin is somehow chosen by the Imam (as far as I understand it). Now if the progressive Dawoodie Bohras decide to rebel against Burhauddin they have basically left their sect and become Bohras without leadership, although they still seem to follow the cultural traditions of being a Bohra.

This wholes thing is quite messed up. Burhauddin seems to be quite pally with the Saudis as well. He pumped them some cash for drilling wholes into the Kaaba and making it "modern".

The Dawoodies take this together with his spending on the shrine in Kufa as a sign from Allah that he is rightly guided.

Their Dawah, (which does not do any dawah at all only charges "membership fees") keeps them uninformed instead of doing their job, this keeps them at a level of ignorance which is easy to controlle.

I am much more intrigued about the najrani Sulaymani Borah, they don't seem to have much of a web presence.

Their leader is slagged off in Saudi (arabic) web forums as buying loads of properties in his and his sons name from the donations of his followers.

I think the dodgy link is right from the beginning when the Yemeni queen claims she has got the infant Imam in her custody and made herself the Dai al Mutlaq.

I just can't trust their claims. On of their Yemeni Dais (Idris) basically changed their whole religion in his works, he must have been ignorant of older fatimid texts.

Another thing very intriguing is there are some sources which list still a presence of Ismailis in southern Egypt, I wonder if they believe in the imamat of Al Hafiz.

Something else if found interesting recently is Tusi and his Nizari (Assassin) works from Alamut.

and as for preserving the architecture of fatimi imams and restoring their glory is something every muslims should be proud off, rather then belitting who have restored it to their pristine glory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A brother was asking something regarding Sabeel and Ejamaat.

The Bohra community is a closely knit, self reliable and progressive community which has sustained itself through harsh years of suppression and persecution of sunni rulers of India, mainly Gujarat. As the years passed by, some of the community leaders introduced a system of maintaining Jamaats through public funds, a prototype of the taxation laws of the nation which is altogether different from the mandatory Zakat, a pillar of Islam. Under this system, all individuals pay a fixed amount of money - called the sabeel - on their house and shop (income generating property) which is paid to the Aamil of the area who in turn uses this money to maintain the mosque and its buildings, provide emergency funds and hold mass feasts on demanding occasions. The money is used in many other social activities benefiting the community in particular.

Ejamaat is a relatively new system of documenting and recording data of Bohras - regarding their attendance in 'Waaz', 'Majalis' and other social gatherings, issuing passes for occasions and many other things regarding their social (religious) life. The system followed is that each registered individual is assigned an Ejamaat number and a password which he uses to login to the Ejamaat site where each number has its own account. The individual can register on the site for Miqaats and maintain his data.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam friends,

I am a Daudi Bohra and have red all the comments from you'll. There is some sort of misconceptions about Daudi Bohras.

Let me first say that we Daudi Bohras as Shia Muslims. We are true lovers of Ali, Imam Hussain and the Ahle-bayt. We observer Muharram for 10 days and on the day of Ashura do matam of Imam Hussain for the whole day. Our current Dai is Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin, the 52nd in succession. He is representing the current imam who is in seclusion.

Our Dai has built to Zarih mubarak of AQA Ali, Imam Hussain in Karbala, Abbas-e-alamdar in Karbala and many more. His wish is to construct a zarih of our prohpet Muhammmed and Maa Fatima in Medina.

I repeat we are pure Shias of Ali and follow the sunnat of our belowed prophet Muhammed.

Here's the link that explains you what we are : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawoodi_Bohra

You goto any corner of the world and if you meet a Bohra in a masjid, he will be in the same white dress. So a Bohra in U.S. will have the same dressing code as a Bohra of Mumbai. This is the disclipline that our Dai has taught us.

We say the kalma as 'La Ilaha Illallah, Muhammed-un Rasullulah, Ali-un-Valiullah'.

I read some of you saying that you are not allowed to enter a Bohra mosque or a Bohra does not reply to your salam. Brother, if this has happened to you than I am sorry on behalf of that person. But beleive me masjid belongs to Allah and only Allah. No one has the right to stop you. We do not stop any one to enter the masjid and offer prayers. Also we always reply to the salam.

Does this help? Please let me know if you have any specific question. I will try to answer that to the best of my knowledge.

Khudahafiz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but they dont beleive on our 12th imam

I have some bori shia frnds even in my locality they comes to majlis do matam with us but as best of ma knowldge they dont believe after 6th imam.

And even they dont do blood matam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but they dont beleive on our 12th imam

I have some bori shia frnds even in my locality they comes to majlis do matam with us but as best of ma knowldge they dont believe after 6th imam.

And even they dont do blood matam.

Salam brother,

There are many sect by the name boris. Are you referring to Daudi Bohras? If yes, then let me tell you that we beleive in Imam Mahdi and the 6th Imam like others. We beleive in the entire lineage of prophet muhammed to Ali to Imam Hussain until the lat imam. We do Imam Hussain matam daily in masjid after our magrib prayers. We remember Imam Hussain at all point in our daily lives.

Matam is a farizat for all daudi bohras. I am in london and after every prayer that I offer, I do matam of Ali, Fatima, Imam Hasan, Imam Hussain and Abbase-alamdar. Even before I go to sleep I do matam.

Brother, if you need more information about daudi bohras then please let me know. I will try to answer your queries to the best of my knowledge

Salam,

Mansoor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but they dont beleive on our 12th imam

I have some bori shia frnds even in my locality they comes to majlis do matam with us but as best of ma knowldge they dont believe after 6th imam.

And even they dont do blood matam.

Dear all,

When there is any discussion on Bohra there is always talk on Imam. Let us come to basic of requirement of Imam. There is religion Islam enlighten by Muhammed and carried forward by Ahle- Bait to follow all Islamic pillars. Main Islamic pillar is "Walayat' , which take and bound individual to Allah through firm belief, trust and guardianship through their Dai/Imam/Wali/Rasul. Our Imam has done sacrifices to keep alive Walayat of Ali and Ahle-bait, they fought against Abbasid Caliphs and so on who forbid them to do shiat of Ali and Ziyarat of Imam Husain.

Ethna Ashari and Dawoodi Bohra has common Imam upto Imam Jafer-sadiq and both believe that their last Imam is under seclusion and would reappear one day. When we both are still on principles of Islam, follow guidelines of our common Imam, and have love for Ali and Ahle bait then where are the differences. Our further Imam/Dais was to show us right path and if we are at right path then why we worry about the names of Imams which are no more.

Ithna ashari and dawoodi Bohra are not having any Imam visible to them but they believe that on earth Imam’s presence is a must and they exist somewhere. Hence their belief is equal on that front.

You take our community as organisation, any well managed organisation has a single top management and its delegation extend up to its lower most employee, which reports to a single authority and its go on till top. Delegation is well defined and organisation is successful when everything is well defined. Now thinks of organisation of god, how can it be mismanaged, how can it be without proper delegation, and how lower most employee a human being can be orphaned. I think that’s why we both believe that Existance of Imam is a must. Dawoodi bohra further believe that to run the administration of Allah imam has shown a path, Dai-ul Mutlaq created and same nass procedure followed such that earth is not without representative of God.

Dawoodi Bohra believe that the office of Dai al-Mutlaq was instituted as the Imam is in occultation, and imamate principle is to be followed in his absence to hand over the imamate to Imam Tayyab’s heir who will again reappear as Imam. They cite as precedent the case of the 11th Imam Abdillah, who appeared 150 years after the death of the 6th Imam Ismail, while the intervening imams were "hidden".

This delegation system is structured so that in the absence of their Imam, the Dai guides the community on his behalf, and further appointed his nominee right up to grass root level. An ''amil''(local head of community, usually a graduate of the order's institution of higher learning, [[Al Jamea tus Saifiyah]]) who leads a local congregation in religious, social, and communal affairs, is sent to each town where a sizable Dawoodi population exists all over the world. Even for a village with just a few Bohra families nominees can be appointed from amongst themselves. This is to ensure that the Dai's message reaches each individual, and a direct link to God. Each town normally has a mosque complex or a smaller ''markaz'' where socio-religious functions are held. The local organizations which manage these properties and administer the social and religious activities of the local Bohras report directly to the central administration of the Da'i based in Bombay, called ''al-Dawah al-Hadiyah'' and close links are maintained for all Bohra all over the world.

Please read this blog published by a Bohra group in some paper;

‘We crossed into the Israeli border, bound for Jerusalem , from the Jordanian side. It was a particularly tense day as there had been a recent firing incident. All five of us had different nationality passports. 1 Kenyan, 1 British, 1 Yemeni, 1 Indian passport issued in Egypt & another Indian passport issued in Nairobi . The Jordanian Immigration officer did not have to be explained why such a mixed group. He knew & he smilingly made a statement, that was actually a stunner. He jokingly said, "Why don't you have a Bohra Passport? It will make things so much more easier for you, & us too."

The Israeli side, the officer (suspicious by default) could not understand how such a group could get together. All dressed alike & identical mannerisms, and yet different passports. He called up his superiors, and what conversation transpired, we did not learn, but he stamped our paper visas & let us through. We have had similar experiences at many airports & checkpoints in the world. The followers of Sultan-al-Bohra can avail a special status at Cairo, or Karachi (if Maula is in Pakistan) or Damascus, Yemen , or East Africa, or UAE, the list goes on. Those who had their US Visa stamped during Ashara with a mention "Attending Ashara"! on the visa, can vouch for the response at the Houston airport immigration. The recent grant of visa-on-arrival exclusively for Bohras, at the Dubai airport was as unbelievable as, so many other episodes in our past travel experiences. We are a people who do not have a nation but are treated like a single nationality, do not have a kingdom, but are treated royally. From Japan in the East to he West Coast of USA, & from New Zealand in the south to Norway in the north, whether we reside in the snowy Alps in Switzerland, or on the golden Coast of Kenya, we have a common bond, a unique culture, a common language, a standard calendar, a uniform code of conduct that absolutely defines the rights & the wrongs, one goal, one platform & one base of knowledge. Our geographic existence might be checkered, but the entire mosaic of our community is a beautiful picture of harmony, painted by a divine hand. Our Tryst with destiny begins & ends in the same spiritual allegiance. We are taught to be absolutely loyal to the country we reside in contributing to the socio-economic progress and prosperity of the country, we are a peace loving community, that gives us a rare edge over all others, and yet in spite of all diversities, we are one. What really makes us tick? What gives us a place of great pride & what makes us so special? We have a Maula, who over the years, has given us an identity, that no other government in the world can provide."

Dai has composed a marsiya as below imagining complete world as a mulk of Imam Husain ;

Fulkul husain-e -be -karbala- mulkul husain-e- be- karbala

Nuskul husaine-be - karbala - miskul husain-e- be- karbala

Abkika moula yal husain - afdika molayalhusain

moulya moulayal husain.

Regards,

Iqbal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they might use astronomical data to determin the birth of the new moon and start the new month before the moon is even visible.

I think they usually do it even one day earlier than the Saudis.

May pl. read following to have further reasoning:

http://thecrescent.info/?p=93/

The Profound Wisdom of Prophet Muhammad Regarding the Lunar Dates and the Unity of the Muslims By Faysal Burhan.

Some excerpt are as follows;

..….”The disunity of the Muslims of North America over the festival dates has reached a considerable level of disgrace....…

In a different Hadith, the Prophet said: [Therefore,] Fast when you see the Moon and break your fast when you see the next Moon. But if you could not see it then complete the 30th day [in fasting.]” -Bukhai & Muslim.... …

Unfortunately, what is commonly overlooked by many Muslims in the above Traditions of the Prophet, is that the Prophet adapted the best method available to him at that time, and this is the real and true Sunnah of the Prophet that we must be inspired by and draw upon....….

Utilizing the lunar data will lead to uniting our Ummah during its festive days in the least, and foremost, it will make us among those who follow Prophet Muhammad’s way of adapting the best solution available....…

Islam is a universal religion; good for all times and places. Muslims will do Islam great injustice when they confine its universal capacity to the elements available to Mecca and Medina during the seventh century. We must understand the grave results of our disunity over immaterial matters dragging us further way from the cause of this faith. Because of our improper practice, we made Islam appear to the technologically advanced world poorly organized and at disadvantage....….”

http://durrenajaf.com/Articles/Sciences%20of%20Islam/Ismaili%20Lunar%20Calendar-%20An%20ideal%20base%20to%20unite%20the%20Ummah,Qazi%20Dr.Shaikh%20Abbas%20Borhany

‘Ismaili Lunar Calendar’: An ideal base to unite the ‘Ummah’

By: Qazi Dr. Shaikh Abbas Borhany

PhD (USA), NDI, Shahadat al A’alamiyyah (Najaf, Iraq), M.A., LLM (Shariah)

Member, Ulama Council of Pakistan

One para:

"It was Bani Fatimah who realized the need of the Lunar Calendar, and they introduced it to the world at large, as soon as they established their vast Empire, even spreading across Europe. This Lunar Calendar remained in practice officially for more than 225 years, in North Africa and across the Atlantic Ocean. The same calendar is in practice officially by the Ismaili Nizaries & Musta’alavis (Dawoodi, Sulaiymani, & Alavi). The notable powerful dynasty of the Sumrahs of Sindh (Pakistan) followed the Lunar Calendar from 365(A.H) to 974(A.H) for more than 609 years, and without any alteration. As elites of Sindh, the Sumrahs handled the affairs of Al Dawah al Hadiyah as Aa’mil of the Ismaili Fatemi Imams in Sindh, whose jurisdiction extended up to the ‘Attock Fort’. Their relationship continued to remain under the command of Al Dai al Mutlaq, one after the other, during the period of Satar. The Ismailis calculate their months according to this Lunar Calendar and least bother(scarcely depend) on the sighting of the Moon for starting a New Year or a New Month, as they have carried out an accurate scientific research on the movements of the Moon. They have a very rich and valuable literature on the subject of ‘Lunar Calendar’, the glorious origin of which goes to Amir al Mumineen, Ali ibn Abi Talib through the references of Abi Abdillah Imam Jafar Assadiq. An authentic scientific chart of ‘Qaran-e-Saghir’ and ‘Qaran-e-Kabir’ is attributed to Ali."

Regards,

Iqbal

Edited by iqbal_bohra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...